I don't disagree with what he says, since it's about mutual understanding, like anything else, but I heavily disagree with the people who claim that people who have these sleeves are dirty, disgusting neckbeards who don't shower and can't get a real girlfriend. That's just like saying any racially offensive stereotype, it's just what these people say isn't really looked down upon, which is sad.
On that, we are in complete agreement. I feel for those put into a situation where they are being unfairly judged by a person who is, shall we say, obviously willing to turn a blind eye to their own indiscretions, but blanket statements just kind of suck.
I do think, though, that as a parent it should be your responsiblity to prepare your kids for things they might find in the real world. I was exposed to some crazy stuff as a kid, and I don't think I'd have had it any other way. I grew up in an open house hold, and I believe that it has helped me become a more open person because of it. Not everyone is like that though, and just like you might have trouble with your younger kids finding swear words on Xbox Live, you have to be prepared for someone who doesn't want to change their sleeves. Maybe it's a pain, maybe they don't have anything else, or maybe they just don't want to. Personally, I'm not of the belief that the person offended has the final say on what people can and can't do.
And I generally disagree with you but I respect your viewpoint, and it probably isn't worth getting into as long as we're just talking about people with skeevy sleeves.
The comment earlier I made about people being on watch lists was harsh, I know. It was probably extreme and I'm sorry. That said, my opinion and I think the one shared by many of the posters on this thread summed up. :
Scantily clad adults of either sex on sleeves/playmats/alters: okay
Reasonable public displays of affection of couples of either sexuality: perfectly fine, it's really not anyone's business.
Sexual images of CHILDREN on sleeves/playmats/alters: kind of weird
Even though I don't care for them, I'm probly not going to be that guy that calls a judge over because I find my opponents' sleeves offensive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Casual Cube EDH: UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness BGW Ghave's Garden WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count Vintage: URWelder WUBRG Dredge Kitchen Table: B Zombies in Your Head
I think this line in particular is a pretty ridiculous statement, and this is coming from someone who uses only matte back sleeves. I have some friends that have in the past purchased some sleeves with scantily clad women on them, and I'm pretty certain I can say they were not masturbating to their sleeves.
No, you most certainly did not. As a matter of fact you have no way of judging such a thing as many magic players do not play in stores or tournaments. You are simply repeating a stereotype believed by a lot of non-gamers; my guess is you are doing this to set yourself apart or above such people.
I briefly used some sleeves with some dragon chick with a nude back and half a buttcrack but i pretty much used them very briefly because i realized that most people just use normal sleeves.
I see playmats with over sexualized anime chicks all the time and I don't have any issues with it. They're not banging each other and I think that would probably cross the line for me. I've certainly never seen any full on frontal nudity or actual sex on sleeves, mats, paraphernalia and i've been to a lot of FNM's and higher level events.
So with that said, no I don't have a problem with people using the suggestive mats/sleeves. I think the more sexualized it is, the more it borders on douchebaggery of the highest kind but as I said, I've never seen anything that was excessive. Yes you have your mats with big anime boobs. Its not any different than people I see IRL with their shirts unbuttoned half way down or the goods pushed up to the chin.
I would probably use sleeves with dragon chicks in bikinis if I found some I super duper liked but i haven't found any that aren't dumb. I'm dating/living with a girl with two huge owls and I don't have a neckbeard if it makes a difference to anyone.
I have a LOT of altered cards. Some of them depict women who I think are kind of hot. Not going to lie about that. I don't like the anime girl lands, though. I don't see them as having redeeming value. My rule of thumb is pretty simple: would I be okay with telling a stranger that I'm showing kids the art on the cards/sleeves I'm using? If the answer is no, then I won't use the card.
First of all, I have to say that most of the egregious sleeves/playmats/alters that I have seen aren't that much worse than Essence Vortex, Hero of Bladehold, Auriok Champion, or for that matter Auriok Steelshaper. But I'm aware that there are people who enjoy having suggestive pictures of children drawn on their lands, sleeves, or whatever.
On the one hand, I don't understand why anyone would do that and I find it obnoxious, but on the other hand it's not like an actual child was harmed in the making.
Also, while there is obviously a line which has to be drawn at some point, because no one would tolerate someone coming in with goatse on their sleeves, there's no clear point at which to draw it. I think it has to be a judgment call in any case, and that's what judges are for.
No, you most certainly did not. As a matter of fact you have no way of judging such a thing as many magic players do not play in stores or tournaments. You are simply repeating a stereotype believed by a lot of non-gamers; my guess is you are doing this to set yourself apart or above such people.
I'm not really sure what I posted that you can possibly disagree with. I only play with matte backs? My friends don't masturbate to their sleeves? What stereotype am I repeating?
I'm not really sure what I posted that you can possibly disagree with. I only play with matte backs? My friends don't masturbate to their sleeves? What stereotype am I repeating?
I quoted the wrong poster. It was someone suggesting that most magic players were fat and unhygienic. Sorry.
Well, actually, yeah, I can; many of the ero sleeves are of women in degrading or submissive positions, objectifying women.
I personally think the "feminist" argument that scantily clad women in sexualized positions is inherently sexist is bull****. Obviously, most women love having sex and would be pretty upset if there weren't any men or women lusting after them. It would be nice if there were scantily clad men in submissive, sexual poses too, though.
I personally think the "feminist" argument that scantily clad women in sexualized positions is inherently sexist is bull****. Obviously, most women love having sex and would be pretty upset if there weren't any men or women lusting after them. It would be nice if there were scantily clad men in submissive, sexual poses too, though.
I would stock up on yaoi sleeves if I could find any.
And yes, seeing 400 pound nerds play with Asian erotic sleeves really is just odd. Sorry, but playing Magic, being overweight, not showering, and being socially awkward isn't going to get you any girl.
Now I'm going to get infracted for something because I just accurately described most of the Magic community.
I personally think the "feminist" argument that scantily clad women in sexualized positions is inherently sexist is bull****. Obviously, most women love having sex and would be pretty upset if there weren't any men or women lusting after them. It would be nice if there were scantily clad men in submissive, sexual poses too, though.
You so miss the point. Being sexualized as objects has nothing to do with whether a gender enjoys copulation. Women and men who object to the depictions are not doing so by claiming women do not engage in coitus.
Obviously, women have sex. The assumption seems to be, though, that "good girls" only do it to please their partner. My point is that it shouldn't be a big deal as long as men get to be depicted as sex objects, too.
Obviously, women have sex. The assumption seems to be, though, that "good girls" only do it to please their partner. My point is that it shouldn't be a big deal as long as men get to be depicted as sex objects, too.
Who's up for playing the next PTQ with suggestive male sleeves with me? If we get a big enough group, maybe we can promote gender equality in the MTG community
Obviously, women have sex. The assumption seems to be, though, that "good girls" only do it to please their partner. My point is that it shouldn't be a big deal as long as men get to be depicted as sex objects, too.
No, sorry, that is not the assumption. Sexualizing women in games and comics is offensive to some because they exaggerate certain body parts so as to make them impossible and entirely appealing for that reason. When someone is appealing only for their body parts that objectifies them, and the feeling is that constant objectification of women (which is much more prominent than of men) in entertainment and media will make boys and men view women as objects who are only appealing for their erotic body parts. It also sets an impossible "ideal" that makes women predominantly feel inferior if they are not built like the character and sexualizing themselves. It can happen for males, too. I have known men who admitted to having eating disorders and such in order to look like the guys in the Calvin Kline ads.
Now, I think Wizards does a pretty good job of titillating without objectifying, but then the art we are talking about on sleeves is not commissioned by WotC.
You have issues? Deal with them. Your rights end where mine begin.
Hughes is right on in this video, but only because he says "you're an adult, deal with it." A lot of the cases mentioned involve an interaction between adults and children or young teens. An 11 year old doesn't have the social tools to "deal" with an adult across from him who has spread absolute smut all over the table. If they tried to say something and you looked down as an adult and replied with "You have issues? Deal with them" I would seriously hope you were removed from the location and banned, if not worse. No stereotypes matter here, it's not about being a fatass neckbeard or a pasty dweeb or a filthy perv, the age is the only issue in this thread. Do you have a right to your smut? Probably, if you feel like using a constitution to make a point about your bad taste. Nobody has a responsibility to behave in any particularly wholesome manner, but try to remember that if there weren't those few conveniently placed strands of hair in the "art" you've chosen to exhibit you could potentially be put on a pretty unpleasant list for showing it to a minor.
Perhaps you should just send WOTC a resume and tell them why you're better at Magic than one of their employees instead of complaining here, where nobody really has any authority on the matter.
Every single time I used to go to a prerelease, back when they were consolidated to a massive expo center in locations, I would.... see things.
Strange, unexplainable things to my eleven year old mind. (I started around the Mirrodin prerelease. Do the math.)
I would see things that I knew, even in prepubescence, were not appropriate to wear or display in public, displayed proudly on cards, swapped among friends, and shown off readily.
I am, of course, referring to anime/erotic/lolita/"girly" playmats, sleeves, card alters, and apparel. If you have ever been to a major tournament, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. They started out pretty bad (ranging from blatantly sexualized underage anime girls drawn on land to full-on softcore pornography on the back of sleeves), but a line was drawn when my parents had to give me "the talk" after I saw a man with a barely censored sex scene publicly displayed on his shirt at the Ravnica prerelease. I believe he was a judge.
After a few years of hiatus from the game (not entirely due to the community, there are some incredibly well-socialized Magic players, and I'd be lying if I said the average engineer was any better), I began to shelter myself in friendly local stores consisting mainly of people in my own age group, unable to get their parents credit cards to buy their publicly displayed pornography. Every so often, however, I would make the trip to a convention that just happened to feature a Magic tournament, and I'd find the same garbage again. I turned 15, I started dating, and the most ironic moment of all time happened, I believe at one of the last "big-event" prereleases:
I gave my boyfriend (at the time) a small peck on the cheek goodbye, and a 250lb blob of a man told me he "didn't want to see any of that, it's not about homophobia, it's very inappropriate", blah blah blah. He sits down and begins pile shuffling his sleeves, which featured what looked like a twelve year old girl in a miniskirt flashing her panties.
I entered the tournament scene again recently, and the problem hasn't really fixed itself, especially among overweight males. Why aren't these disgusting sleeves/playmats banned from all competitive play? Will WoTC ever step in and realize that allowing this kind of behavior from the social misfits of Magic is what's keeping the hobby from becoming accepted by all genders and sexual orientations?
If you use these, give me a damn good defense as to why, and I'll listen to it. But to me, it's just misogynistic garbage that needs to be permanently removed from the world of Magic, so as not to continue making the Magic community look like a bunch of crazed neckbeards.
First let me say the irony of this post is delicious, and is one of the biggest problems with american society.
You and the alleged neckbeard are both equally in the wrong, don't like public displays of sexuality? Maybe you shouldn't participate in them yourself (while lower it is still the same type of action), yes the guy acted like an immature child, but the rest of the story is just a giant pile of hypocrisy. It's not cool to **** all over others sexuality and then feel wronged when they do so to yours.
I'm 5'10'' 175, clean cut, can bench 265, squat 405 and deadlift 425, I've had sex, I've had girlfriends, I have a decent amount of good friends, if you met me outside on the street you'd think I was a meathead. That being said I am ONLY attracted to anime characters, and I do really like lolis, even the hardcore stuff, but that's neither here nor there. Basically this post rubbed me very badly seeing as it literally trashes my sexual preferences for like 500 words. That being said, no one knows I'm into that, they just assume I'm A-sexual/gay, why because I don't publicly walk around with a shirt on or sleeves that say "oh hai I'm (insert sexuality here)". Basically what I'm trying to say is that the worst examples are ussually the loudest (especially in the anime community).
But the hypocrisy in the post isn't cool brah, it basically reads "fat neckbeard makes insensitive remark about my sexuality" and continues for 5 paragraphs to bash his sexuality.
td;lr I don't appreciate the way that your thread made for someone bashing your sexuality, is basically a huge bashing on those of us who are only into 2D, because, believe it or not, there are actually some people who are that way by choice, not desperation.
Also, inb4 I get flamed out of existence, just trying to bring a point that the neckbeards in our community are like your drag queens, and that we're pretty much harmless.
In a competitive game, I don't care what sleeves my opponent uses... as long as they are of a solid color. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest if they care to buy an expensive rag (sorry, "playmat") with full nudity, be it penises, breasts, whatever. The sleeves are only for marked card reasons. Various things like nudity and vulgar language aren't going to put me on tilt, and if they are paying attention to that rag instead of the board state, I'm more than happy to let them use it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
This OP is either or a troll, or needs to get over himself. Its clear that he just enjoys being on his high horse.
It strikes me as spurious that Magic players would lash out against women in various stages of undress on card sleeves and other accessories, considering the fact that females dressed for the weather are a minority on the cards themselves. I don't personally own anything that verges on scandal, but I'm not willing to rebuke someone for having PG-13 sleeves containing a card that is likely to itself possess a busty angel/elf/kithkin on it.
Exactly my sentiments. If you have a problem with those sleeves you should also have a problem with the card art, but you don't for some strange reason. Oh, that's right, you're looking for something to be offended by...
I like matte black sleeves, maybe some other guy likes em with scantily clad women, maybe some other guy likes em with dreamy handsome men (now that I think about I may enjoy that too), as long as no genitalia is showing get over it.
Every time I come across a player that uses sleeves with half naked underage-looking anime girls, I just quit the match. I have a young daughter and it takes all my effort to not punch the person. It's honestly creepy and disgusting.
Every time I come across a player that uses sleeves with half naked underage-looking anime girls, I just quit the match. I have a young daughter and it takes all my effort to not punch the person. It's honestly creepy and disgusting.
And that's a disturbing response. I can only hope you're over exaggerating or, god forbid, trolling.
You honestly would concede a match because of someone's sleeves? You would honestly contemplate physical violence because of a mat? I mean... even if the person in question printed real images of nude children on their play material I still wouldn't ATTACK the guy for it. Call the cops, maybe but, assault someone?! Come on.
@DrWorm: I just really only read the last two pages and the first one, so from that point of view... I totally agree with you and have to say, you're awesome.
@EX33396948: Same as above.
I don't care if women are objectified as long as men are as well... (Speaking from a bi-sexual woman's perspective.)
Though... I've never seen the problem with lolicon as long as it stays there.
On that, we are in complete agreement. I feel for those put into a situation where they are being unfairly judged by a person who is, shall we say, obviously willing to turn a blind eye to their own indiscretions, but blanket statements just kind of suck.
And I generally disagree with you but I respect your viewpoint, and it probably isn't worth getting into as long as we're just talking about people with skeevy sleeves.
Scantily clad adults of either sex on sleeves/playmats/alters: okay
Reasonable public displays of affection of couples of either sexuality: perfectly fine, it's really not anyone's business.
Sexual images of CHILDREN on sleeves/playmats/alters: kind of weird
Even though I don't care for them, I'm probly not going to be that guy that calls a judge over because I find my opponents' sleeves offensive.
EDH:
UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness
BGW Ghave's Garden
WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count
Vintage:
URWelder
WUBRG Dredge
Kitchen Table:
B Zombies in Your Head
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I see playmats with over sexualized anime chicks all the time and I don't have any issues with it. They're not banging each other and I think that would probably cross the line for me. I've certainly never seen any full on frontal nudity or actual sex on sleeves, mats, paraphernalia and i've been to a lot of FNM's and higher level events.
So with that said, no I don't have a problem with people using the suggestive mats/sleeves. I think the more sexualized it is, the more it borders on douchebaggery of the highest kind but as I said, I've never seen anything that was excessive. Yes you have your mats with big anime boobs. Its not any different than people I see IRL with their shirts unbuttoned half way down or the goods pushed up to the chin.
I would probably use sleeves with dragon chicks in bikinis if I found some I super duper liked but i haven't found any that aren't dumb. I'm dating/living with a girl with two huge owls and I don't have a neckbeard if it makes a difference to anyone.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=557874
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg
You have issues? Deal with them. Your rights end where mine begin.
On the one hand, I don't understand why anyone would do that and I find it obnoxious, but on the other hand it's not like an actual child was harmed in the making.
Also, while there is obviously a line which has to be drawn at some point, because no one would tolerate someone coming in with goatse on their sleeves, there's no clear point at which to draw it. I think it has to be a judgment call in any case, and that's what judges are for.
I'm not really sure what I posted that you can possibly disagree with. I only play with matte backs? My friends don't masturbate to their sleeves? What stereotype am I repeating?
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
No apology necessary, I was just so completely confused.
I would stock up on yaoi sleeves if I could find any.
You so miss the point. Being sexualized as objects has nothing to do with whether a gender enjoys copulation. Women and men who object to the depictions are not doing so by claiming women do not engage in coitus.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Who's up for playing the next PTQ with suggestive male sleeves with me? If we get a big enough group, maybe we can promote gender equality in the MTG community
Now, I think Wizards does a pretty good job of titillating without objectifying, but then the art we are talking about on sleeves is not commissioned by WotC.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Hughes is right on in this video, but only because he says "you're an adult, deal with it." A lot of the cases mentioned involve an interaction between adults and children or young teens. An 11 year old doesn't have the social tools to "deal" with an adult across from him who has spread absolute smut all over the table. If they tried to say something and you looked down as an adult and replied with "You have issues? Deal with them" I would seriously hope you were removed from the location and banned, if not worse. No stereotypes matter here, it's not about being a fatass neckbeard or a pasty dweeb or a filthy perv, the age is the only issue in this thread. Do you have a right to your smut? Probably, if you feel like using a constitution to make a point about your bad taste. Nobody has a responsibility to behave in any particularly wholesome manner, but try to remember that if there weren't those few conveniently placed strands of hair in the "art" you've chosen to exhibit you could potentially be put on a pretty unpleasant list for showing it to a minor.
First let me say the irony of this post is delicious, and is one of the biggest problems with american society.
You and the alleged neckbeard are both equally in the wrong, don't like public displays of sexuality? Maybe you shouldn't participate in them yourself (while lower it is still the same type of action), yes the guy acted like an immature child, but the rest of the story is just a giant pile of hypocrisy. It's not cool to **** all over others sexuality and then feel wronged when they do so to yours.
I'm 5'10'' 175, clean cut, can bench 265, squat 405 and deadlift 425, I've had sex, I've had girlfriends, I have a decent amount of good friends, if you met me outside on the street you'd think I was a meathead. That being said I am ONLY attracted to anime characters, and I do really like lolis, even the hardcore stuff, but that's neither here nor there. Basically this post rubbed me very badly seeing as it literally trashes my sexual preferences for like 500 words. That being said, no one knows I'm into that, they just assume I'm A-sexual/gay, why because I don't publicly walk around with a shirt on or sleeves that say "oh hai I'm (insert sexuality here)". Basically what I'm trying to say is that the worst examples are ussually the loudest (especially in the anime community).
But the hypocrisy in the post isn't cool brah, it basically reads "fat neckbeard makes insensitive remark about my sexuality" and continues for 5 paragraphs to bash his sexuality.
td;lr I don't appreciate the way that your thread made for someone bashing your sexuality, is basically a huge bashing on those of us who are only into 2D, because, believe it or not, there are actually some people who are that way by choice, not desperation.
Also, inb4 I get flamed out of existence, just trying to bring a point that the neckbeards in our community are like your drag queens, and that we're pretty much harmless.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Exactly my sentiments. If you have a problem with those sleeves you should also have a problem with the card art, but you don't for some strange reason. Oh, that's right, you're looking for something to be offended by...
I like matte black sleeves, maybe some other guy likes em with scantily clad women, maybe some other guy likes em with dreamy handsome men (now that I think about I may enjoy that too), as long as no genitalia is showing get over it.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Now me, yeah, I'm attracted to my card sleeves as well.
You really want me to show my sexy looking card sleeves? Do you really REALLY want to see it?
Oh yeah, just by looking at this, I just jizzed... in... my pants.
Are you saying that you're a pedophile? Maybe for anime children, but you mean pedophilia?
And that's a disturbing response. I can only hope you're over exaggerating or, god forbid, trolling.
You honestly would concede a match because of someone's sleeves? You would honestly contemplate physical violence because of a mat? I mean... even if the person in question printed real images of nude children on their play material I still wouldn't ATTACK the guy for it. Call the cops, maybe but, assault someone?! Come on.
@EX33396948: Same as above.
I don't care if women are objectified as long as men are as well... (Speaking from a bi-sexual woman's perspective.)
Though... I've never seen the problem with lolicon as long as it stays there.