Quote from Teia RabishuWell, when I did, you immediately rejected it out of hand with some contortionism about how everyone has the same "opportunities," ignoring for a moment that more and better opportunities lead to success.
Quote from Teia RabishuAlso ignoring the common sense that the black lesbian trans woman I mentioned would hardly be given the same opportunities (job offers, social connections, etc) by others
Quote from Teia Rabishucompared to the cisnormative white guy, specifically because she's so many things that are discriminated against.
Quote from TheDarksyde86Skullclamp cannot really be considered a best for it was banned upon release. I think the best card/most broken card on that list has to be Bloodbraid Elf. That card was too busted.
Quote from sentimentGX4My advice is to have sex with your girlfriend's best friend. It's the only way you two will ever be on an equal footing.
Quote from ljossberirliberals become educated so that they can fail in new and unique ways. Conservatives like to fail in all the same ol' ways.
Quote from PeterGriffinI don't remember any evidence. Care to give me a link?
Quote from Barack Obama »We're supposed to stand up to bullies, not follow them. We're supposed to stand up to discrimination. And we're sure as heck supposed to stand up clearly and unequivocally to Nazi sympathizers. How hard can that be, saying that Nazis are bad?
Quote from Teia RabishuIt was the census data that shows white people earn something like 50% more on average than black people, among other things. I'm not going to go look it up again given that you dismissed it out of hand the first time you saw it. Why should I assume this time would be any different?
Quote from Teia RabishuAlso I don't see how it's not common sense that inequality exists given that some states fight to keep homosexuality being illegal in the books,
Quote from Teia Rabishuand given that Obama's race is any kind of concern at all,
Quote from Teia Rabishuand so on and so forth.
Quote from Teia RabishuIf equality was real, why would any of these things matter?
Quote from PeterGriffinWhy did you bring up Obama? What does he have to do with this?
How does that affect their opportunity when getting a job or whatever? No matter how much I disagree with those states, I don't think them trying to make it illegal, affects their opportunities.
First, we aren't really talking about equality, and hatred towards gays or black will never go away no matter what system you are in. Second, they really don't matter when it comes to individual opportunities.
Quote from Teia RabishuWell, if people question the qualifications of the most powerful man in America solely because of how he's black, suspected to be a Muslim, or a socialist, or whatever, how do you think these same people will treat those they disagree with on similar grounds but hold actual power over?
Quote from Teia RabishuClearly, enough people lobby for it to remain illegal that it does so despite being wholly unenforceable (Lawrence v. Texas and all that). These people don't exist in a vacuum. There are people lobbying to keep homosexuality illegal who have control over hiring practices, school admissions, financial services (loans and so on), housing, and basically everything relevant.
Quote from Teia RabishuYou can change the laws, but you can't change people so easily.
Quote from Teia RabishuThings like this almost have me convinced you're just an elaborate troll.
Quote from PeterGriffinWhy? If someone in Texas doesn't like gays, how does that affect a gay person's opportunity in New York?
Quote from Teia RabishuYou act as if racism, sexism, homophobia, and so on (I always say "and so on" because people whine at me for bringing up "niche issues" like gender identity) are localized to the places where these practices are institutionalized. I live in one of the most liberal places in all of North America, and I still see racism, sexism, homophobia, and so on in my daily life. You act as if every act of discrimination is a localized thing, an isolated incident not representative of social problems as a whole.
Quote from Teia RabishuI want your statistics, your sources, that show these things are a non-issue and that everyone is totally equal in terms of opportunity. Real, verifiable facts.
Quote from PeterGriffinWhat? You don't need proof to show something is a non-issue. If you think there is an issue, then you provide something to back up your point. I don't need anything to show there isn't an issue.
Quote from Teia RabishuI brought up verifiable facts to show that as far as results are concerned,
Quote from Teia Rabishuwhite people seem to be more advantaged than black people.
Quote from Teia Rabishuwant you to show an actual source that says it doesn't come from their race.
Quote from Teia RabishuBecause if it doesn't and we accept your claim that everyone gets equal opportunities,
Quote from Teia Rabishuwhere does this inequality come from?
Quote from Teia RabishuBlack people just being lazier than white people or something?
Quote from Teia RabishuEnough to account for such a huge difference across an entire population?
Quote from Teia RabishuWhen your argument gets taken to its logical conclusion like that, you start to sound rather racist.
Quote from TussBecause other potential explanations for the fact of white people being more successful than black people would be limited to black people being somehow inherently less capable than white people or the whole thing being a huge fluke. Those two are quite unlikely! There's also the mountain of evidence showing that kids from well-to-do families will do better than kids from poor families. Furthermore, there are the couple hundred of years of context. Y'know, with white people building fortunes on black slaves and passing law after law specifically discriminating against black people when they couldn't literally own them any longer and then continuing the discrimination anyway when it ceased to be explicitly legal to do so.
Quote from TussWhite people are more likely to have a stable childhood, go through high school, have their job applications taken seriously, not get harassed by law enforcement, take place in the ruling class and the establishment and be the face of the average American. They are the norm. These are some pretty important advantages.
Quote from TussBlack people ending up poorer than white people didn't just happen for no discernible reason at all. It's rooted in generations of racial discrimination and oppression.
Quote from PeterGriffinIs that how you plan to win this debate? By portraying me as a racist ... ?
I completely agree, however I see no evidence that it actually exists anymore
Quote from Teia Rabishu
What you're doing is essentially like looking at a fair d6 being rolled about 500 million times, seeing that the odds of any given side are pretty much equal, and saying that you don't think it's a fair conclusion to draw and that there's no evidence that a fair d6 has the same chance of rolling any of its six sides. Thankfully, I refute the notion that your approach could ever be considered logical.
Quote from Teia RabishuI have no need to portray you as a racist (or a sexist or a homophobe or whatever else).
Quote from Teia RabishuI need only to repeat the things you say back at you.
Quote from Teia RabishuIf you don't like the logical conclusions from the things you say, then say different things.
Quote from Teia RabishuAs it is, you say that their opportunities are different, and you even acknowledge that poverty is a problem for many black Americans, yet you still think these are all isolated incidents, that the parts don't form together into a single whole.
Quote from Teia RabishuIn other words, you believe that if a hundred million black people are all below the poverty line (note: this is hyperbole for the sake of example), then that's just a hundred million independent examples and not representative of any specific problems with society.
Quote from Teia RabishuAverages have to come from somewhere. Black poverty is enough to drag their average earnings down about 50% compared to white people. Again, if their race and history
Quote from Teia Rabishuhave nothing to do with it, where do you propose this difference comes from? I'm not going to accept some vapid "lol I dunno, but it doesn't come from their race!" argument. It has to come from somewhere, so I want to know what you propose is the better interpretation.
Quote from Teia RabishuI mean, you're the one who asked me why I'd assume a black lesbian trans woman would get different opportunities than a white heterosexual cis man, questioning the validity of this statement ("...and if you're correct..."), then later you say "Different groups of people have different opportunity"? You're not being consistent at all.
Quote from Teia RabishuI found some pretty good evidence in that other thread, but you reject it out of hand.
Quote from Teia RabishuWhat you're doing is essentially like looking at a fair d6 being rolled about 500 million times, seeing that the odds of any given side are pretty much equal, and saying that you don't think it's a fair conclusion to draw and that there's no evidence that a fair d6 has the same chance of rolling any of its six sides. Thankfully, I refute the notion that your approach could ever be considered logical.
Quote from xChaospherex
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Let's be honest, you're also white and probably of English, French, and/or Dutch descent(guessing English).
This paragraph is an example of not reading what I write, being stubborn, and putting words into my mouth. Congrats!
teia, when are you going to back off and realize you're the only one being racist here?
Quote from Teia RabishuThat seems to be about the only thing you can say.
Quote from PeterGriffinSince you seem to bring up this "systematic racism" all the time, and every time someones calls you on it, you have nothing to back it up with, I suggest you stop bringing it up.
Quote from Teia RabishuAcknowledging the problem exists != perpetuating the problem.
Quote from Teia Rabishu"Teia is racist" is an absurd argument steeped in privilege denial.
Quote from PeterGriffinI never said you were a racist.
Quote from Teia RabishuNo, but NightfallGemini did.
Quote from PeterGriffinRight, so why would you tell me about how "absurd" that argument is?
Quote from NightfallGeminiteia, it's either because of their race/sexuality/whatever or because of their class if you want to call classism. you can't have it both ways.
when no one else in this thread is saying that, and you're the only one trying to push that belief (that you clearly buy into yourself), what does that make you in the end?
I would call myself a bigot if I said "gay people have no shot in hell over a straight guy" mainly because it simply isn't true.
Quote from Teia RabishuI'm curious how you separate race and so on from social privilege when for decades upon decades, the only people with any power at all were rich white people. We aren't so far from that legacy that we can claim to be past it. Especially not when the figures for income and education and so on still skew towards whiteness. I appreciate that facing racial classism is an uncomfortable thing, but the fact is classism is alive and kicking.
Quote from Teia RabishuThe fact that you didn't take any handouts when you probably could have is, I guess, commendable, but arguing in favour of denying that chance to others is selfish to extremes. If you don't like handouts, don't take them. Simple as that.
Quote from Teia RabishuBecause saying that I'm racist for bringing attention to classism brought on by race would be like calling a male feminist sexist, or a heterosexual LGBT ally homophobic.
And speaking as a woman who's very openly on the LGBT spectrum, I don't mind if cisnormative heterosexual men speak for my causes, so long as they do so in a respectful way (i.e. not trying to override or negate my experiences as... a woman of nonstandard sexuality, let's just say). Same idea, different issue.
Quote from Teia RabishuAnd classism comes from race/sexuality/whatever. Sure, it's not a 100% thing, which is what apologists point at all the time. "See, these few black guys earn more than the average white guy, so classism doesn't exist!" Unfortunately, that's a load of crap when statistically speaking they're the outliers.
Quote from Teia RabishuObviously you have a shot in hell, but the deck is still stacked against gay people in far too many areas to ignore.
Quote from TussThis is some of the densest ☺☺☺☺ I have ever read.
Quote from TussBlack people's overall economic status and position in contemporary US society is directly formed by generations of racial oppression. The effects of this are still felt as is evidenced by the significantly greater likelihood of black Americans to be poor, with all that that entails (education, employment, health and so on!).
Quote from TussA consequence-free way for the political establishment to win votes is to destroy social programs that attempt to help poor people while smearing those who need it as "welfare queens".
Quote from TussDid you really think it was just coincidence that black people are more likely to be poor?
Quote from TussIf you want statistics, here is a sourced pile of them that I got within five seconds of searching. The most difficult part was to decide upon the exact string of words to search for (I settled for "black americans poverty", if you can think of a better one please tell me about it).
And here is a quick and simple Wikipedia article, of all things to use as evidence. It's useful, though, because it leads us to the Department of Education which can be searched for all sorts of fun stuff.
Here's one hilarious article: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10068/1041225-28.stm
Quote from TussBasically you simply can't wave away the absolutely worse conditions that black people are in compared to white people as something that happens just because they are poor. Yes! That they are more likely to be poor is precisely the problem!
Quote from TussSomething about society forces significantly more black people into poverty and harsher economic conditions in general.
Quote from Tussthe system causes certain groups to end up worse than other groups.