Quote from Darklich528All I want is that the money I make at my job, that I work extremely hard for, goes to me instead of somebody else. And I'm self-entitled? I don't think so. People who abuse the system are scum, and we shouldn't cater to them.
Quote from ness_the_messI think people who are so offended by social assistance should go and live with people who are on it for a month. These are not happy people.
Quote from Barack Obama »We're supposed to stand up to bullies, not follow them. We're supposed to stand up to discrimination. And we're sure as heck supposed to stand up clearly and unequivocally to Nazi sympathizers. How hard can that be, saying that Nazis are bad?
Quote from Teia RabishuWhat I want is people who insist on all this "I want all the money I earn" nonsense to look me directly in the eyes and tell me how much of a leech I am (or whatever else). I want to see if their convictions are so strong that they can apply them to real people as opposed to dehumanized conceptualizations of other people. It's much harder than you'd think. Most armchair libertarians can't do it.
I very much doubt Darklich has ever faced any kind of real hardship in his life. I'd say he's middle class at worst. Probably white, too. Also heterosexual and the standard list of other things. It really tends to be a package deal for that kind of ignorant self-entitlement.
Quote from dcartistthe flipside of that is that if you're on public assistance, maybe you should take that absolute "☺☺☺☺ job" and appreciate the fact that people are working their asses off to subsidize your health care and everything else. People screw around in elementary and high school, mock the people who study hard, then 10 years later, they're on public assistance and *****ing about everybody's relative position in society... as if everybody had been assigned random careers, and people in big houses won them in lotteries.
To be on public assistance and getting ALL the entitlements while paying in nothing...
... then lecturing people who are actually chipping in, but have the nerve to complain.
"probably white too"? "ignorant self-entitlement"?
That seems out of line.
Quote from Teia RabishuDo you use public utilities? Roads? Did you go to a public school? Are any medications you take approved by the FDA? Do you enjoy being protected from crime by the police? None of these things pay for themselves, you know. If you want to play the Internet-libertarian card, then sure, play it, but you should realize just how much benefit other people's taxes give you.
Quote from Teia RabishuTo be totally honest, it comes off like someone complaining about big corporations at a Starbucks. You go on about how "all you want is the money you make" but you make use of contributions from other people.
Quote from Teia RabishuSimply living in the country doesn't mean you automatically know the full ramifications of the subject at hand.
Quote from ness_the_messYou are so ignorant. If you like anarchy so much, move to Colombia.
Quote from ness_the_messI think people who are so offended by social assistance should go and live with people who are on it for a month. These are not happy people. The vast majority of them desperately want a job. They are often supporting family with non-existent income. Social assistance, be it welfare or whatever, is not enough to live above the poverty line. If you're actually offended by your money going to people who don't deserve it, complain about Club Fed. Now THAT is an absurd misuse of public funds.
Quote from ness_the_messTravel the world then tell me how much you hate your taxes and infrastructure.
Quote from Teia RabishuI very much doubt Darklich has ever faced any kind of real hardship in his life. I'd say he's middle class at worst. Probably white, too. Also heterosexual and the standard list of other things. It really tends to be a package deal for that kind of ignorant self-entitlement.
Quote from Darklich528Yes, yes and yes. I do use all of those things and pay taxes to support them. I don't understand your point, really. There's already tax brackets in place that dictates somebody rich will pay more to drive on the same roads as somebody poor. The situation at hand is people using roads that aren't paying for them.
I have no problem with big corporations, which shows how you little you know of me, and how much you assume.
I didn't say I knew the full ramifications of the subject, but I did say that it's probably more than you, which may or may not be true, I don't know.
I'm sorry, where did I say I hated paying taxes? Taxes are inevitable, and I pay them. The problem I have is with people abusing the system.
Not only is half of this paragraph simply false, but I fail to see how my race, sex or orientation is relevant to the topic at hand. Care to enlighten? If not wanting to pay my hard-earned money to support people who abuse the system and aren't interested in helping themselves is entitled, then YES I AM. But lucky for me, it isn't. I shouldn't be required to care about other people. Heartless? Maybe. Your self-entitled claims are totally out of line.
After reading your last couple of posts, I've concluded that you are one of the most ignorant people I've met. Funny how that worked out.
Quote from dcartist(1) Do people who make $14,400 a year pay 12-15% in taxes???
Your standard deduction is around $9500 if I recall, and the lowest tax bracket is 10%. So if you make $14,400 a year, you have $5000 in taxable income, which taxed at 10% is $500 taxes a year. Throw in state taxes and whatever, and I think that's going to be maybe 5% taxes at most.
(2) If you're on minimum wage, get roommates, save money. I did it when I was going to school, and don't see why people think they're too good for roommates.
Quote from SerafisThere's always the question of "how would you solve the problem". Obviously there are people who abuse the system (there will always be no matter the system), but there are also tons of people who need the system to help them get up off the ground and become paying citizens (which is obviously the ideal). It seems impossible to separate the two, and I think it's unfair to ignore those who are trying to spite on ones who aren't.
Quote from Teia RabishuEveryone who pays income taxes, sales taxes, and so on contributes to these things. Unless you're going to say that illegal immigrants never pay any taxes ever on anything, which is implausible at best.
Quote from Darklich528
If illegals are paying taxes and supporting themselves in the same way a citizen would, there is no reason they should remain illegal. That's a broken system, and needs to be refined. I actually think getting citizenship should be easier here. It's the people who enter the country with the intention of abusing the system that I have a problem with.
Quote from Teia RabishuYou're right. I was wrong in making an assumption about you. I assumed you could process a simple simile. To be clear, I didn't say that you are that type of anti-corporation person, but that you're like them. You casually complain about things you benefit from and make use of.
Quote from Teia RabishuWasn't directed at me, but:
"All I want is that the money I make at my job, that I work extremely hard for, goes to me instead of somebody else."
That's a pretty standard anti-taxation argument.
Quote from Teia RabishuQuite simply, you gain massive social privilege simply from being white, from being male, from being heterosexual (or closeted), from conforming to social norms, and so on and so forth. Also, from having money. You're never marginalized. Never written off using labels. Never systematically discriminated against. Everything is, at its core, centred around the privileged. The privilege are never denied jobs, housing, financial services, and so on simply out of hand. Thus a massive advantage is garnered but never fully appreciated.
If you don't conform to the stated profile, then by all means, state how you're different. Tell me how your identity isn't how I predicted. Tell me of any hardships you're enduring or have endured. I'll listen. I won't try to invalidate anything you say. But if all you're going to do is make privilege-denying claims of "I don't see how identity gives social advantage," I'm going to call it as I see it.
Quote from Teia RabishuThankfully, I don't care what you think of me. The fact of the matter is you have a fundamental misunderstanding of social privilege and it's tainting your opinions something fierce.
Quote from the_cardfatherI remember when I worked at that level I would always multiply my expected pay by 0.85 or so and it worked out. 8.5% in SS/Medicare right off the top plus a paltry income tax which will come back at tax time, but doesn't help pay the monthlies until you get it.
People should get room-mates. I see a lot of couples moving in togeather way before they should just because of the money. (Sometimes they end up having babies and then the dude leaves and mom gets on social assistance. Ye ra. +1 for society.)
You can really get burned with bad room-mates though. before we got married, my wife had a room mate and they had a 2-2 for $800 a month. Roommate left. I had to float her $200 a month until she found a new room mate who ended up being a total financial nut job. Those 3 months of "Kelly" have had lasting concequences.
You solve the problem by putting controls on the money. Handing out checks is the easy way, but you would actually help people if they had education and job skills tied to the money. Churches do this with the assistance they provide. Financial counseling, food, perscriptions, school supplies, housing, electric bills. It is very rare to see a church actually just hand out checks.
I think it might cost more in the long run, but you have to be willing to give up some of your social independance when you accept those government checks.
Is that more "soul crushing" than Min Wage? Sure, but it has to be if you want people to work rather than just collect. To be completely honest, I'd rather see a lot of the social assitance money we spend put into subsidizing childcare rather than paying mom not to work.
I'm a big advocate of family training, but obviously there is a broken system here that needs correcting.
I quoted this block of text because the issue (I thought) at hand is illegal immigration, and once again you've brought in race, sex, orientation and privilege into a discussion where it has no place.
Quote from Teia Rabishu
Incidentally, you don't see a whole lot of immigrants in fluff courses. You do, however, see them in business courses, engineering courses, medicine, and other courses directly aimed towards getting a useful job. It's mostly the rich people who are guaranteed income either way that major in things like English, Psychology, and so on.
Quote from TheDarksyde86Skullclamp cannot really be considered a best for it was banned upon release. I think the best card/most broken card on that list has to be Bloodbraid Elf. That card was too busted.
Quote from sentimentGX4My advice is to have sex with your girlfriend's best friend. It's the only way you two will ever be on an equal footing.
Quote from ljossberirliberals become educated so that they can fail in new and unique ways. Conservatives like to fail in all the same ol' ways.
Quote from PeterGriffin@Teia No matter how many times you bring it up, I am going to call you on it. Do you have any evidence that non-white, non-heterosexual, or non-male people are at a distinct disadvantage because of their differences when it comes to achieving success in life, and it isn't their fault?
Success, being anything from getting rich to just earning a good living.
Quote from Overbeing_of_Mythyes, google it. I'm not even kidding, every year newspapers publish surveys on income based on race and gender and every time white males always make more money. This is changing as women and other races are seeing an increases in their salaries, but white males still make more money than everyone else.
Quote from Teia RabishuYou don't see very many heterosexual, socio-normative white males working the truly horrible jobs like being the 3 AM janitor at Walmart or something. Reason for this is they don't have to. Meanwhile, a guy from Mexico who'll take literally any job he can get even if it pays below minimum wage under the table? Sure, he'll be more inclined. I shouldn't have to point out the difference here, but apparently I do. The white guy gets such a huge advantage from his race (and from following other social norms—an openly genderqueer guy who wears makeup and skirts isn't going to be welcomed too warmly either). Even a poor white guy has better prospects than the poor Mexican immigrant (let alone the poor Mexican illegal immigrant). Plus his citizenship is never questioned. As far as illegal immigrants go, well, they're at such a disadvantaged position compared to the highly privileged citizens (especially the white citizens) that it basically dominates their lives. If you don't believe me, go talk to one sometime.
Quote from Teia RabishuThe important aspect of privilege that you don't seem to understand is that privilege matters in literally every aspect of social interaction. It matters at school, at work, at play, everywhere. It's usually invisible, especially to those who have it, but it's still always there. Why do you keep on trying to deny it? Certainly during your less pleasant days, you should have noticed others' privileges of money, stable housing, and so on at work. I'm not invalidating your experiences at all—it's terrible that you had to go through that. I'm simply baffled at how you can't connect that experience to others' situations.
Quote from Teia RabishuHere's the thing, though: How is supporting a citizen who doesn't pay taxes any different from supporting an illegal immigrant who doesn't pay taxes?
If you don't have respect for the deadliest and most difficult to join fighting force IN THE WORLD, then I do not hesitate to say that I would feel more offended if you DID respect me.
Quote from Teia_Rabishu »I very much doubt Darklich has ever faced any kind of real hardship in his life. I'd say he's middle class at worst. Probably white, too. Also heterosexual and the standard list of other things. It really tends to be a package deal for that kind of ignorant self-entitlement...
You don't see very many heterosexual, socio-normative white males working the truly horrible jobs like being the 3 AM janitor at Walmart or something.
I believe that social privilege comes to those who have dominance, wealth, power, status and education. (It is relative after all) Racial or other factors should be left out of the equation - so you remove stereotyping, generalizing or other numerous exceptions - and just look at it from a generic perspective.
But please note that I don't support Welfare or other similar handout systems either.
Yes, statistically speaking white people may make more money than other races, but that in no way shows the other races or at a disadvantage, or that white people or at an advantage
Quote from Teia RabishuGiven that your standard of proof is set such that nothing could ever possibly meet it, I don't see the point in continuing this argument against you.
Quote from Teia RabishuI mean, it should just be common sense that people with established money have more and better opportunities than people who don't, but you refuse to accept even something that simple.
Quote from Teia RabishuSo as far as this subject goes, I'm not going to waste my proverbial breath.
Quote from PeterGriffin »But, I do accept that? I never said I don't, so please read my posts. If someone who happens to be less fortunate, financially wise, is also black, gay, or female has a rough time becoming successful, it is because of their financial situation, not because of their color, gender, or sexuality. Don't you understand that? You keep saying people or at a disadvantage because they are black, or gay, or a chick, and then when i ask for some evidence you can never provide it.
Quote from Teia RabishuBecause typing "a woman" would be too much like pretending women are equal to men, right?
Quote from Teia RabishuBut sure, let's go about pretending that a heterosexual white cis man and a lesbian black trans woman (both middle class, for the sake of argument) will be given exactly the same opportunities.
Quote from ValentineBut wasn't is just said above that financial situation is tied into race? I don't believe the two are completely separate.
Quote from PeterGriffinYou are absolutely correct, but them having a rough life because of their finances is not the same as the system actually discriminating because of their race, which is what Teia claims happens all the time and is "common sense", yet she can't give me any evidence.