I just don't know. If a bear is attacking humans then the situation is dire becasuse either the bear is sick or its normal food sources have diminished. If the humans are attacking the bear without provocation then they're morons who deserve to be mauled, get rabies, and/or die. Bears are generally shy of humans and so I doubt any bear would just happen upon a group of them and decide to attack them.
Defeating a diseased or starving grizzly would be a difficult task. It wouldn't act like a bear normally acts and its much easier to kill a predictable animal than an unpredictable one. That being said I'd herd the bear, to guide it into a pit trap full of sharpened spikes. This would take about 10-12 people to implement because you need people to act as beaters, which are people whose only job is to flush out game, and some as spearmen. Some people would likely die or get seriously injured but no game is without risk.
Even men of average intelligence would know that a one by one strike would not work against the damn thing.
I go with 3-6. Guessing a weight of around 160 minimum for the men, if they charge and aim for the rear legs, that bear will have some serious mobility issues. The same thing could be done for the other rear leg, making it fairly crippled. It won't be able to stand, it won't be able to run, and it would likely be in so much pain it wouldn't be able to focus. I see a soon to be choked bear with six men climbing its back and going for the throat.
There are so many +25s, its pretty hilarious. It seriously only would take 1 or 2 men. One decoy, the other strangles the beast.
You do know what a grizzly bear is right? The decoy would be dead in about 0.2 seconds and the guy trying to choke the bear would get squashed.
As for incredible strength in these circumstances, that's true, but the increase in strength will really only make the bear more pissed off when you kick him. I think the people telling us we're underestimating humans are really really underestimating how much damage a pissed off grizzly can do. These things often kill people just that get in their way of food, imagine how they'll behave when two of them are kicking it in the shins and three others are jumping on top of it.
There are indeed black bear, but I was just referencing the part where there were 50 brown bear attack and 18 cougar attacks during that time frame. Plus, wouldn't your second point on that post partially refute the point of your previous post in that it suggests that habit and not population is a larger part of what makes bears more dangerous?
It's a combination of the two. Mountain lions encounters are just generally rarer then bear encounters, despite natural hunting grounds.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
You do know what a grizzly bear is right? The decoy would be dead in about 0.2 seconds and the guy trying to choke the bear would get squashed.
As for incredible strength in these circumstances, that's true, but the increase in strength will really only make the bear more pissed off when you kick him. I think the people telling us we're underestimating humans are really really underestimating how much damage a pissed off grizzly can do. These things often kill people just that get in their way of food, imagine how they'll behave when two of them are kicking it in the shins and three others are jumping on top of it.
A grizzly bear is just another name for a homeless person right?
On a serious note, I do know what a grizzly bear is (...a homeless person I'm pretty sure). But human will is underestimated here. We are the most dominant creatures on the planet; I think two average full grown men can handle a bear of average weight and strength (although it wasn't clarified, I'm assuming we are dealing with a regular bear and not some Jaws-like freak of the bear genus, appropriately dubbed: Paws).
I don't exactly know if a bear can be choked out, I was merely speculating (I'm sure it can). Humans are smarter creatures than bears and that is all that matters in the test of man -vs- beast. At first, I'm sure the task will prove itself to be impossible, but the human psyche should be capable of generating some creative techniques.
In a pinch, you could always sacrifice your buddy, and use his bones as a dagger (think about that for a second...feeding the bear your buddy so you can use an arm with the flesh still on it as a ****ing knife. WOW. I need a nap).
Because we can use tools. In a situation where that's out of the question, we are weak punching bags.
I knew someone was gonna say this.
People aren't that helpless, physically. 2 on 1 is fair odds for a creature that is bigger and faster. I would also think the bear would tire easier than the two nimble humans. The bear may be fast, but it isn't nearly as quick.
2 people? The bear wouldn't even tire because: 1 swing, 1 guy down. Another swing, 2 guys down. Since OP says it's an arena, there's not going to be obstacles for the humans to plan with, and the bear runs so fast that it's not going to make a difference even if there were as there's no time to set up any plan.
i so wana test this...i really want to know......know the question is how much its gona cost to get my friends drunk so i can video tape them fighting a bear naked.
It only take 1 person to take out a Grizzley bear and its Chuck Norris.
No but seriously is gotta be like 30+ cuz you know that 15+ of them would run away when they saw the bear.
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I am going to do MTGSalvation a service and find a [possibly more than one for experimental sake] reputable biologist or zoologist that can answer this little riddle.
I will share the email exchanges with all to see.
Edit*
I visited the Alaskan Science Center Website and made my way to the Biological Science Office where I found the names of many scientists who may help us with our conundrum. I emailed them the question. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
... How are you going to strangle a grizzly bear? Let's say it is being passive and letting you do this you like couldn't get your arm all the way around it's neck. At least not far enough to strangle it. Not to mention the pressure actually needed to cut off the air flow would likely be more than you can supply even if you are using both arms to try and basically hug the bears wind pipe to death. As for using a humans bones for tools. Most likely you are going to die before you could separate them or even if you did you still probably couldn't get enough force. The story with the guy who managed to kill a bear above had a log as thick as his arm. Surprisingly our bones are generally not as thick as our bone wrapped in flesh. Oh but you could make spears or daggers you say? O.k. then you need to disengage the bear and then re attack it later since now you need time to make tools. So now you have your human bone spears and the like. Good work you now need to put enough force behind then so they are similar to a high caliber rifle. This completely passive bear has exhausted most of these ideas. Also most bears can climb as fast as they can run. Or knock down a smaller tree.
... How are you going to strangle a grizzly bear? Let's say it is being passive and letting you do this you like couldn't get your arm all the way around it's neck. At least not far enough to strangle it. Not to mention the pressure actually needed to cut off the air flow would likely be more than you can supply even if you are using both arms to try and basically hug the bears wind pipe to death. As for using a humans bones for tools. Most likely you are going to die before you could separate them or even if you did you still probably couldn't get enough force. The story with the guy who managed to kill a bear above had a log as thick as his arm. Surprisingly our bones are generally not as thick as our bone wrapped in flesh. Oh but you could make spears or daggers you say? O.k. then you need to disengage the bear and then re attack it later since now you need time to make tools. So now you have your human bone spears and the like. Good work you now need to put enough force behind then so they are similar to a high caliber rifle. This completely passive bear has exhausted most of these ideas. Also most bears can climb as fast as they can run. Or knock down a smaller tree.
Thank you for understanding me. I wasn't sure anyone would.
Thanks FTMB. I've emailed a few 'bear experts' that I found on google, but none responded. I think your approach will more likely yield results. Keep us posted.
About the argument itself, a lot of what you guys are saying I've heard from my friends. I'm sticking to my guns though, just because I can't imagine a beast the size of a bear being able to take 25 humans. Have a few guys decoy, have a guy castrate it, have a guy gouge its eyes out, have a guy punch it in the nose. This requires 5 men, so I toss on a few extra just in case.
There's a BIG difference between killing something human weight and killing something that's over 1000 pounds. Also, grizzly bears? Significantly more vicious.
Anyone who said 25+ is wrong, I think. Ever heard of hysterical strength? Under normal circumstances, a human uses less than one third of his muscle fibres. In rare cases, such as in a life/death situation, people use all of them. People have been know to lift cars in situations like these.
None of that matters against a bear. He has claws and teeth! We don't!
If I remember correctly a few years ago a guy in either BC or Alberta got attacked by a addolecent Grizzly and survived by knocking the bear out with a rear naked choke. Im far from 100% on the details but it was widely reported on both the major national newscasts here.
Adolescent grizzly? Grizzlies are born weighing a pound. They end up weighing over a thousand pounds. Taking out something in the intermediary state doesn't quite compare to taking out the real adult variety.
Ok, two humans. The bear weighs about six times more than the two of you combined, made of muscle, extremely thick fur, razor sharp claws and teeth, very ferocious. You are helpless against a bear.
Thanks FTMB. I've emailed a few 'bear experts' that I found on google, but none responded. I think your approach will more likely yield results. Keep us posted.
Probably because they're laughing so hard at the idea of people arguing two human beings can take a bear down.
I'm honestly wondering how many people here have actually seen a grizzly bear.
There's a BIG difference between killing something human weight and killing something that's over 1000 pounds. Also, grizzly bears? Significantly more vicious.
Classic example of skewing numbers. Male bears can weigh over 1000 lbs, but typically weigh 400-770 lbs. This is a significant difference. Remember, the scenario is in the most average way possible, that is, the bear definitely weighs 400-770 lbs. because it is a typical bear, at least for this thought experiment.
Classic example of skewing numbers. Male bears can weigh over 1000 lbs, but typically weigh 400-770 lbs. This is a significant difference. Remember, the scenario is in the most average way possible, that is, the bear definitely weighs 400-770 lbs. because it is a typical bear, at least for this thought experiment.
Ok, and that black bear the guy took out could have weighed less than he did. Doesn't change the fact that this is a grizzly bear.
One... and its name is Bruce Lee. Or any other martial artist of his caliber that exists today... and there are a few.
Stick and move... get behind it and use lateral movement to your advantage, as a bear cannot change directions as rapidly as you can. Do that and the bear will tire before you can, which will allow you, over time to eventually kill it.
I'd say between 6-8, and they would have to approach it like a pack of wolves, feinting back and forth to tire the bear out. The first few people are, without exaggeration, cannon fodder. But going for the eyes has got to be the first thing they do if they want to win. The first guy or two will get trashed, and then the next guy or two should get in to damage the eyes (this is while the rest of the people are attacking from all sides to distract it.) From there, the remaining people can simply time it out. With the bear's blinded, bleeding eyes, the humans would just have to keep harassing it until it tired from the pain and blood loss before moving in to overwhelm it.
So, I still haven't heard back from the scientists (there were at least 50) I emailed over the weekend. I am sure they though my email was either spam or some kind of online scheme. I tried to sound as professional and sincere, but there is no real way to take a question about naked men and a grizzly bear fighting to the death seriously, I guess. I thought for sure at least one of them would have written me back with a half-intelligent answer, but nay. I got nothing but a cold shoulder.
A bears weapons are it's strength, claws and such.
That is it's natural weaponry.
A humans natural weaponry will be pieces of wood, rocks etc. Even at our most basic, and stripped from all the trappings of our modern life, we are still tool using creatures and to deny us of the capability to use makeshift weaponry is the same thing as denying the bear it's claws and natural strength.
Using the most basic of scavanged weaponry, I say it would take 4-8 men, depending on their brains and psysical prowess.
Defeating a diseased or starving grizzly would be a difficult task. It wouldn't act like a bear normally acts and its much easier to kill a predictable animal than an unpredictable one. That being said I'd herd the bear, to guide it into a pit trap full of sharpened spikes. This would take about 10-12 people to implement because you need people to act as beaters, which are people whose only job is to flush out game, and some as spearmen. Some people would likely die or get seriously injured but no game is without risk.
I go with 3-6. Guessing a weight of around 160 minimum for the men, if they charge and aim for the rear legs, that bear will have some serious mobility issues. The same thing could be done for the other rear leg, making it fairly crippled. It won't be able to stand, it won't be able to run, and it would likely be in so much pain it wouldn't be able to focus. I see a soon to be choked bear with six men climbing its back and going for the throat.
You do know what a grizzly bear is right? The decoy would be dead in about 0.2 seconds and the guy trying to choke the bear would get squashed.
As for incredible strength in these circumstances, that's true, but the increase in strength will really only make the bear more pissed off when you kick him. I think the people telling us we're underestimating humans are really really underestimating how much damage a pissed off grizzly can do. These things often kill people just that get in their way of food, imagine how they'll behave when two of them are kicking it in the shins and three others are jumping on top of it.
It's a combination of the two. Mountain lions encounters are just generally rarer then bear encounters, despite natural hunting grounds.
A grizzly bear is just another name for a homeless person right?
On a serious note, I do know what a grizzly bear is (...a homeless person I'm pretty sure). But human will is underestimated here. We are the most dominant creatures on the planet; I think two average full grown men can handle a bear of average weight and strength (although it wasn't clarified, I'm assuming we are dealing with a regular bear and not some Jaws-like freak of the bear genus, appropriately dubbed: Paws).
I don't exactly know if a bear can be choked out, I was merely speculating (I'm sure it can). Humans are smarter creatures than bears and that is all that matters in the test of man -vs- beast. At first, I'm sure the task will prove itself to be impossible, but the human psyche should be capable of generating some creative techniques.
In a pinch, you could always sacrifice your buddy, and use his bones as a dagger (think about that for a second...feeding the bear your buddy so you can use an arm with the flesh still on it as a ****ing knife. WOW. I need a nap).
Because we can use tools. In a situation where that's out of the question, we are weak punching bags.
I knew someone was gonna say this.
People aren't that helpless, physically. 2 on 1 is fair odds for a creature that is bigger and faster. I would also think the bear would tire easier than the two nimble humans. The bear may be fast, but it isn't nearly as quick.
Teamwork makes dreams work. Final answer.
It only take 1 person to take out a Grizzley bear and its Chuck Norris.
No but seriously is gotta be like 30+ cuz you know that 15+ of them would run away when they saw the bear.
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I am going to do MTGSalvation a service and find a [possibly more than one for experimental sake] reputable biologist or zoologist that can answer this little riddle.
I will share the email exchanges with all to see.
Edit*
I visited the Alaskan Science Center Website and made my way to the Biological Science Office where I found the names of many scientists who may help us with our conundrum. I emailed them the question. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
Tell me how do you strangle this...
I couldnt even reach his neck and im pretty tall. It would easily take 25+ men to kill this bear.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7299972#post7299972
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Thank you for understanding me. I wasn't sure anyone would.
About the argument itself, a lot of what you guys are saying I've heard from my friends. I'm sticking to my guns though, just because I can't imagine a beast the size of a bear being able to take 25 humans. Have a few guys decoy, have a guy castrate it, have a guy gouge its eyes out, have a guy punch it in the nose. This requires 5 men, so I toss on a few extra just in case.
Sig by XenoNinja of Heroes of the Plane Studios
Black bear = 155 to 600 pounds.
Grizzly bear = over 1000 pounds.
There's a BIG difference between killing something human weight and killing something that's over 1000 pounds. Also, grizzly bears? Significantly more vicious.
None of that matters against a bear. He has claws and teeth! We don't!
Adolescent grizzly? Grizzlies are born weighing a pound. They end up weighing over a thousand pounds. Taking out something in the intermediary state doesn't quite compare to taking out the real adult variety.
How would you strangle something that big? How would you even get near it?
Because we have GUNS.
And not all guns can kill bears!
Ok, two humans. The bear weighs about six times more than the two of you combined, made of muscle, extremely thick fur, razor sharp claws and teeth, very ferocious. You are helpless against a bear.
Probably because they're laughing so hard at the idea of people arguing two human beings can take a bear down.
I'm honestly wondering how many people here have actually seen a grizzly bear.
Classic example of skewing numbers. Male bears can weigh over 1000 lbs, but typically weigh 400-770 lbs. This is a significant difference. Remember, the scenario is in the most average way possible, that is, the bear definitely weighs 400-770 lbs. because it is a typical bear, at least for this thought experiment.
Sig by XenoNinja of Heroes of the Plane Studios
Ok, and that black bear the guy took out could have weighed less than he did. Doesn't change the fact that this is a grizzly bear.
Agreed. Just wanted to point out that while obviously this grizzly is monstrous, it's not as monstrous as some might think.
Sig by XenoNinja of Heroes of the Plane Studios
Stick and move... get behind it and use lateral movement to your advantage, as a bear cannot change directions as rapidly as you can. Do that and the bear will tire before you can, which will allow you, over time to eventually kill it.
So an average man is like 6'0", 180 LBS? An average grizzly is 7"0', 550 LBS?
Two men can handle that.
Get your head in the game.
Or maybe 4 Little Girls
And I refute the innitial quesiton.
A bears weapons are it's strength, claws and such.
That is it's natural weaponry.
A humans natural weaponry will be pieces of wood, rocks etc. Even at our most basic, and stripped from all the trappings of our modern life, we are still tool using creatures and to deny us of the capability to use makeshift weaponry is the same thing as denying the bear it's claws and natural strength.
Using the most basic of scavanged weaponry, I say it would take 4-8 men, depending on their brains and psysical prowess.