It's actually a misconception that grizzly bears have poor eyesight. In actuality, their sight is at least as good as a humans. Which is to say that it's much poorer than most carnivores and much much less-evolved than their sense of smell but it's still a useful tool for a hunting animal. I don't really know how others were suggesting it be blinded but I was suggesting one or two people get intentionally mauled while others jump on its back/neck area and gouge it's eyes. In my previous post I suggested that a team working in perfect tandem with some members willing to sacrifice themselves could do it. If there's no real coordination, I think the number to kill a bear would be much, much higher.
The thing is with climbing the tree, i weigh 160lbs and i grizzly weighs 1000+lbs. A smaller branch way up in a tree can hold me but not a bear. The branches below me would break and the bear would fall.
I can climb a tree pretty fast, I used to live in the boonies when I was young and there wasnt much to do. Multiply that by holey crap theres a bear behind me and I'd be in the top of that tree before the bear was on the first branch.
25+, and I'm thinking way +. Evolutionarily speaking, humans have three major survival skills: tools, teamwork, and an above-average endurance running ability*. We have no serious natural weapons, which is to say, our "natural weapons" are our brains and the tools that spring therefrom. Sending men into this fight unarmed is like sending the bear into this fight declawed, defanged and hamstrung.
*This endurance running is good for hunting some animals. A fit man who knows what he's doing can run an antelope to exhaustion, then kill it with his bare hands. And it's not unreasonable to think the bear would initially flee from a large band of humans. But what would Team Sapiens do when the bear decided to stop running?
The results of this poll seem to be a disturbing indictment about the intelligence of MTGS users. People seriously think less than 25 humans could take out a bear? This isn't Winnie the Pooh, it's an angry grizzly that can kill you with one lazy swipe of its paw. I've been reflecting on this a lot since my earlier post and think that literally unarmed humans could never take a bear out unless there was just an endless stream of them and eventually the bear collapsed from exhaustion after killing about 200 of them.
Heh, funny that this poll comes up a day after a bunch of friends and I do a complete and total bear survival research (I'm moving to grizzly country). 1 man can take down a bear if he has the following items.
S&W 500
Bear Spray (It's quite literally a special pepper spray for bears)
Good reflexes
Calm under pressure
Good aim.
If you have the steel nerves to shoot the world's most powerfun handgun at a grizzly, you're doing something right, but do realize that once a bear gets moving, once you kill it, unless you've gotten a clean headshot, it can keep charging for up to 10 seconds before dropping dead, so you best hope you've either shot enough rounds into it to ground it or get in a good head shot. Usually if you spray a bear with e BPS it will turn tail and run. Some one on one of the hunting forums suggested just dropping a flashbang and decking the ground.
However everyone is really missing the more dangerous predator. Wherever there are bears, there are mountain lions, and let me tell ya folks, mountain lions are hell of a lot scarier. A bear is big, noticeable, and doesn't often go after humans. Mountain lions are extremely agile and dead quite when they're stalking prey. Meaning that you don't know you're ****ed until it's on top of you I'd much rather go up against a bear then a mountain lion.
Heh, funny that this poll comes up a day after a bunch of friends and I do a complete and total bear survival research (I'm moving to grizzly country). 1 man can take down a bear if he has the following items.
S&W 500
Bear Spray (It's quite literally a special pepper spray for bears)
Good reflexes
Calm under pressure
Good aim.
If you have the steel nerves to shoot the world's most powerfun handgun at a grizzly, you're doing something right, but do realize that once a bear gets moving, once you kill it, unless you've gotten a clean headshot, it can keep charging for up to 10 seconds before dropping dead, so you best hope you've either shot enough rounds into it to ground it or get in a good head shot. Usually if you spray a bear with e BPS it will turn tail and run. Some one on one of the hunting forums suggested just dropping a flashbang and decking the ground.
However everyone is really missing the more dangerous predator. Wherever there are bears, there are mountain lions, and let me tell ya folks, mountain lions are hell of a lot scarier. A bear is big, noticeable, and doesn't often go after humans. Mountain lions are extremely agile and dead quite when they're stalking prey. Meaning that you don't know you're ****ed until it's on top of you I'd much rather go up against a bear then a mountain lion.
Yeah... this has no relevance. It's all interesting information but we're discussing how many unarmed men it would take to kill a grizzly bear in an infinitely large arena. In regards to your other point, I would say that the fact that mountain lions have only killed around 18 people in North America from 1890 to 2005 and bears have killed over 100 in that time frame (50 from brown bears) makes it seem to me that bears might just be a wee bit more threatening.
Yeah... this has no relevance. It's all interesting information but we're discussing how many unarmed men it would take to kill a grizzly bear in an infinitely large arena. In regards to your other point, I would say that the fact that mountain lions have only killed around 18 people in North America from 1890 to 2005 and bears have killed over 100 in that time frame (50 from brown bears) makes it seem to me that bears might just be a wee bit more threatening.
And you don't think that has anything to do with species population?
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
And you don't think that has anything to do with species population?
Perhaps some, but if you look at their range, cougars in North America inhabit a much more populated area along the west coast with populations in Oregon and California reaching around 10,000 while there are only about 1,200 brown bears in the contiguous United States. Granted that there are far more bears than cougars but 95% of US brown bears live Alaska, one of our least populated states while the rest of the North American population live in sparsely-populated northern Canada.
Perhaps some, but if you look at their range, cougars in North America inhabit a much more populated area along the west coast with populations in Oregon and California reaching around 10,000 while there are only about 1,200 brown bears in the contiguous United States. Granted that there are far more bears than cougars but 95% of US brown bears live Alaska, one of our least populated states while the rest of the North American population live in sparsely-populated northern Canada.
There are also Black bears as well. I have seen 1+ Black Bears every year I go up to Yosemite, but have only seen a Mountain Lion once.
Plus, there is a huge difference between bears and mountain lions in terms of food. The main reason humans interact with bears is because bears like to raid dumpsters. Mountain lions have no interest in doing so.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
There are also Black bears as well. I have seen 1+ Black Bears every year I go up to Yosemite, but have only seen a Mountain Lion once.
Plus, there is a huge difference between bears and mountain lions in terms of food. The main reason humans interact with bears is because bears like to raid dumpsters. Mountain lions have no interest in doing so.
There are indeed black bear, but I was just referencing the part where there were 50 brown bear attack and 18 cougar attacks during that time frame. Plus, wouldn't your second point on that post partially refute the point of your previous post in that it suggests that habit and not population is a larger part of what makes bears more dangerous?
The results of this poll seem to be a disturbing indictment about the intelligence of MTGS users. People seriously think less than 25 humans could take out a bear? This isn't Winnie the Pooh, it's an angry grizzly that can kill you with one lazy swipe of its paw. I've been reflecting on this a lot since my earlier post and think that literally unarmed humans could never take a bear out unless there was just an endless stream of them and eventually the bear collapsed from exhaustion after killing about 200 of them.
It shows how naive and/or disconnected from the natural world people seem to be.
The results of this poll seem to be a disturbing indictment about the intelligence of MTGS users. People seriously think less than 25 humans could take out a bear? This isn't Winnie the Pooh, it's an angry grizzly that can kill you with one lazy swipe of its paw. I've been reflecting on this a lot since my earlier post and think that literally unarmed humans could never take a bear out unless there was just an endless stream of them and eventually the bear collapsed from exhaustion after killing about 200 of them.
First step: Dig a punji pit, cover it up, lure it in, then stone/burn it to death.
Plan b: Mutilate your arm. Make it infected. Gangrine or rabies will do nicely. Shove it down the bear's throat. Make sure a tourniqute is handy. Wait for a couple months before the bear's immunne system wears down, then watch it die of starvation as it is too weak to hunt and it's teeth fall out one by one.
Plan c: Destroy its local food sources. Burn the trees, over fish the streams, hunt out all the wild life, pick out/poison the berries and Wait for the months it will take for it to die of starvation/leaves the area to be shot at by a park ranger/redneck.
plan d: wait for it to die of old age.
If there is no way to plan, and each person only got to use his wits and hands and feet, I would submit that no ammount of humans would ever kill a grizley. First off, our hands and feet woudn't do ANY damage to it, the only way a group of people would be able to kill a grizley is if they drowned/smothered it in their decaying bodies and blood and guts. how many would it take before the grizley was stuck at the bottom? I would say 400 at least.
SO, the other question is this: of an infinte group of people, how many could an enraged and possibly starving grizzley kill, before the entire group left the area of say thirty miles? I would probably say three.
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How about... we let the grizzly bear rip up several of our men and then we use their thigh bones as clubs?Several beatings to the head ought to give the bear a concussion. Animals are not invulnerable as they seem. A blow to the body might do nothing to the grizzly but their skulls are not specially protects much from our own. Also we have to remember that the grizzly only has so many paws and one head. It could only effectively handle one two men at a time and it'll be easy to swarm. Now all this is assuming that we're in a close combat cage. I don't know what happens if this is happening in a meadow. Generally speaking, 10 men could probably take on a grizzly given they don't panic and they're coordinated.
Well a black bear is vastly different from a grizzly bear. And obviously even having something like a stick increases your chances a lot. However, the question said unarmed, and no humans are going to really damage a grizzly bear without weapons.
I mean seriously, what do you think an unarmed human can possibly do to a bear? Even a badass martial arts fighter would get his ass stomped in two seconds. The only strategy I can think of is for someone to try to jump on the bear's back and choke him out, but that seems pretty weak. You also have to factor in that with each failed kill attempt the bear will get increasingly pissed off and more deadly as a result.
Heh, funny that this poll comes up a day after a bunch of friends and I do a complete and total bear survival research (I'm moving to grizzly country). 1 man can take down a bear if he has the following items.
S&W 500
Bear Spray (It's quite literally a special pepper spray for bears)
Good reflexes
Calm under pressure
Good aim.
If you have the steel nerves to shoot the world's most powerfun handgun at a grizzly, you're doing something right, but do realize that once a bear gets moving, once you kill it, unless you've gotten a clean headshot, it can keep charging for up to 10 seconds before dropping dead, so you best hope you've either shot enough rounds into it to ground it or get in a good head shot. Usually if you spray a bear with e BPS it will turn tail and run. Some one on one of the hunting forums suggested just dropping a flashbang and decking the ground.
However everyone is really missing the more dangerous predator. Wherever there are bears, there are mountain lions, and let me tell ya folks, mountain lions are hell of a lot scarier. A bear is big, noticeable, and doesn't often go after humans. Mountain lions are extremely agile and dead quite when they're stalking prey. Meaning that you don't know you're ****ed until it's on top of you I'd much rather go up against a bear then a mountain lion.
I dont see how you could assume a mountain lion is more deadly then a bear. A large mountain lion weighs 120-150lbs. Thats less then me. A large grizzly can weigh 1200 lbs. Thats like 8 times my weight. If i came into contact with a litte mountain I'd put that overgrown ***** cat in a sleeper hold and break its neck.
I would rather take on 2 and a half mountain lions then one bear.
Anyone who said 25+ is wrong, I think. Ever heard of hysterical strength? Under normal circumstances, a human uses less than one third of his muscle fibres. In rare cases, such as in a life/death situation, people use all of them. People have been know to lift cars in situations like these.
If I remember correctly a few years ago a guy in either BC or Alberta got attacked by a addolecent Grizzly and survived by knocking the bear out with a rear naked choke. Im far from 100% on the details but it was widely reported on both the major national newscasts here.
Anyone who said 25+ is wrong, I think. Ever heard of hysterical strength? Under normal circumstances, a human uses less than one third of his muscle fibres. In rare cases, such as in a life/death situation, people use all of them. People have been know to lift cars in situations like these.
Exactly. I think people are underestimating the strength of the humans here. For these purposes, I assume that the humans are in a situation where they're truly fearing their lives (i.e. they'll all be shot if they don't kill the bear in a day or something). This'll get that hysterical strength up and running. Also, we're assuming that people will be willing to go on suicidal missions to weaken the bear.
Like I said, five humans making a few blows here and there and then, I don't know, running up a tree so they don't get hit back. Obviously these hits would have to be either in the balls or to the bear's neck, but now that I think about it the balls would probably be their best shot. Tell all men who are about to die to go by a tree so that one of the men in a tree can run down, break off some limbs and run back up to make spears. Stab the bear in the head, GG.
If you managed to swarm the bear, I would guess at least 10+ people would be crushed beneath its weight if it fell or rolled over, rendering them useless for the rest of the battle, if not dead.
Most mammals have a distinct weakness in their snout. While bear snouts are not as fully developed as, say, a coyote, it is still big enough to give the bear a weak spot. So now you have to begin sacrificing human beings to the teeth and claws of the animal so a few people can land some hammer-blows directly to the snout. This can render some animals nearly incapable of further action, though maybe not a bear.
Eventually an offense of around 30 survivors would have to literally dog-pile the bear, pounding on its snout while a few people try choking it and blinding it.
Bear in mind (ha) that the animal is smart enough to not just stand there while there are a bunch of peons on its back. It will stand, intentionally roll, and go into a sort of berserk mode once it feels some pain.
Shooting a bear and not felling it can wield serious danger to the hunter. It will charge at you with the intent of killing you, while holding a few bullets in its hide.
I seriously doubt the capability of even 50 grown men. People aren't considering that minor things like claw-swipes and weight will render people unconconsious and nearly dead, and this is before the bear even gets started.
And whomever showed the article of a woman not getting killed by a 700 pound Polar Bear, please find something a bit more useful to your cause. She didn't even scratch the thing.
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I can climb a tree pretty fast, I used to live in the boonies when I was young and there wasnt much to do. Multiply that by holey crap theres a bear behind me and I'd be in the top of that tree before the bear was on the first branch.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7299972#post7299972
Sales Thread
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10181905#post10181905
*This endurance running is good for hunting some animals. A fit man who knows what he's doing can run an antelope to exhaustion, then kill it with his bare hands. And it's not unreasonable to think the bear would initially flee from a large band of humans. But what would Team Sapiens do when the bear decided to stop running?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
S&W 500
Bear Spray (It's quite literally a special pepper spray for bears)
Good reflexes
Calm under pressure
Good aim.
If you have the steel nerves to shoot the world's most powerfun handgun at a grizzly, you're doing something right, but do realize that once a bear gets moving, once you kill it, unless you've gotten a clean headshot, it can keep charging for up to 10 seconds before dropping dead, so you best hope you've either shot enough rounds into it to ground it or get in a good head shot. Usually if you spray a bear with e BPS it will turn tail and run. Some one on one of the hunting forums suggested just dropping a flashbang and decking the ground.
However everyone is really missing the more dangerous predator. Wherever there are bears, there are mountain lions, and let me tell ya folks, mountain lions are hell of a lot scarier. A bear is big, noticeable, and doesn't often go after humans. Mountain lions are extremely agile and dead quite when they're stalking prey. Meaning that you don't know you're ****ed until it's on top of you I'd much rather go up against a bear then a mountain lion.
Yeah... this has no relevance. It's all interesting information but we're discussing how many unarmed men it would take to kill a grizzly bear in an infinitely large arena. In regards to your other point, I would say that the fact that mountain lions have only killed around 18 people in North America from 1890 to 2005 and bears have killed over 100 in that time frame (50 from brown bears) makes it seem to me that bears might just be a wee bit more threatening.
And you don't think that has anything to do with species population?
Perhaps some, but if you look at their range, cougars in North America inhabit a much more populated area along the west coast with populations in Oregon and California reaching around 10,000 while there are only about 1,200 brown bears in the contiguous United States. Granted that there are far more bears than cougars but 95% of US brown bears live Alaska, one of our least populated states while the rest of the North American population live in sparsely-populated northern Canada.
There are also Black bears as well. I have seen 1+ Black Bears every year I go up to Yosemite, but have only seen a Mountain Lion once.
Plus, there is a huge difference between bears and mountain lions in terms of food. The main reason humans interact with bears is because bears like to raid dumpsters. Mountain lions have no interest in doing so.
There are indeed black bear, but I was just referencing the part where there were 50 brown bear attack and 18 cougar attacks during that time frame. Plus, wouldn't your second point on that post partially refute the point of your previous post in that it suggests that habit and not population is a larger part of what makes bears more dangerous?
let one be the bait and die horribly quick, then use the bones from the dead body preferbly the ribs as a stake and stab it.
cookie wizards of the the simic
The extendo siggy thingy currently dead
... As a stake?
Even if it were a spear, giving you any distance, did we mention a bear can survive bullets?
It shows how naive and/or disconnected from the natural world people seem to be.
You seem to underestimate the power of humans and overestimate the power of bears. Watch any videos of bears killing animals. Yes, they are huge, strong, and deadly. 200? No way. 25 is an obscene amount in my book. If one man and a stick can kill a black bear: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1075830/Bring-sweetie-Man-kills-bear-stick-hes-got-scars-prove-it.html
Then 6-10 can kill a grizzly with nothing.
Sig by XenoNinja of Heroes of the Plane Studios
First step: Dig a punji pit, cover it up, lure it in, then stone/burn it to death.
Plan b: Mutilate your arm. Make it infected. Gangrine or rabies will do nicely. Shove it down the bear's throat. Make sure a tourniqute is handy. Wait for a couple months before the bear's immunne system wears down, then watch it die of starvation as it is too weak to hunt and it's teeth fall out one by one.
Plan c: Destroy its local food sources. Burn the trees, over fish the streams, hunt out all the wild life, pick out/poison the berries and Wait for the months it will take for it to die of starvation/leaves the area to be shot at by a park ranger/redneck.
plan d: wait for it to die of old age.
If there is no way to plan, and each person only got to use his wits and hands and feet, I would submit that no ammount of humans would ever kill a grizley. First off, our hands and feet woudn't do ANY damage to it, the only way a group of people would be able to kill a grizley is if they drowned/smothered it in their decaying bodies and blood and guts. how many would it take before the grizley was stuck at the bottom? I would say 400 at least.
SO, the other question is this: of an infinte group of people, how many could an enraged and possibly starving grizzley kill, before the entire group left the area of say thirty miles? I would probably say three.
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Well a black bear is vastly different from a grizzly bear. And obviously even having something like a stick increases your chances a lot. However, the question said unarmed, and no humans are going to really damage a grizzly bear without weapons.
I mean seriously, what do you think an unarmed human can possibly do to a bear? Even a badass martial arts fighter would get his ass stomped in two seconds. The only strategy I can think of is for someone to try to jump on the bear's back and choke him out, but that seems pretty weak. You also have to factor in that with each failed kill attempt the bear will get increasingly pissed off and more deadly as a result.
I dont see how you could assume a mountain lion is more deadly then a bear. A large mountain lion weighs 120-150lbs. Thats less then me. A large grizzly can weigh 1200 lbs. Thats like 8 times my weight. If i came into contact with a litte mountain I'd put that overgrown ***** cat in a sleeper hold and break its neck.
I would rather take on 2 and a half mountain lions then one bear.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7299972#post7299972
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10181905#post10181905
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Exactly. I think people are underestimating the strength of the humans here. For these purposes, I assume that the humans are in a situation where they're truly fearing their lives (i.e. they'll all be shot if they don't kill the bear in a day or something). This'll get that hysterical strength up and running. Also, we're assuming that people will be willing to go on suicidal missions to weaken the bear.
Like I said, five humans making a few blows here and there and then, I don't know, running up a tree so they don't get hit back. Obviously these hits would have to be either in the balls or to the bear's neck, but now that I think about it the balls would probably be their best shot. Tell all men who are about to die to go by a tree so that one of the men in a tree can run down, break off some limbs and run back up to make spears. Stab the bear in the head, GG.
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If you managed to swarm the bear, I would guess at least 10+ people would be crushed beneath its weight if it fell or rolled over, rendering them useless for the rest of the battle, if not dead.
Most mammals have a distinct weakness in their snout. While bear snouts are not as fully developed as, say, a coyote, it is still big enough to give the bear a weak spot. So now you have to begin sacrificing human beings to the teeth and claws of the animal so a few people can land some hammer-blows directly to the snout. This can render some animals nearly incapable of further action, though maybe not a bear.
Eventually an offense of around 30 survivors would have to literally dog-pile the bear, pounding on its snout while a few people try choking it and blinding it.
Bear in mind (ha) that the animal is smart enough to not just stand there while there are a bunch of peons on its back. It will stand, intentionally roll, and go into a sort of berserk mode once it feels some pain.
Shooting a bear and not felling it can wield serious danger to the hunter. It will charge at you with the intent of killing you, while holding a few bullets in its hide.
I seriously doubt the capability of even 50 grown men. People aren't considering that minor things like claw-swipes and weight will render people unconconsious and nearly dead, and this is before the bear even gets started.
And whomever showed the article of a woman not getting killed by a 700 pound Polar Bear, please find something a bit more useful to your cause. She didn't even scratch the thing.