Okay, I'll try to be a little more active later in the day time permitting, but I have errands to run right now.
Currently my solve is something like Grapefruit/KJ assuming my PoE is correct.
Grapefruit has fallen out of my townreads because of the infrequency of his posts, and I am townreading more people whom I was scumreading at the time (DoTA/Axel have posted good stuff).
I know DV voted Axelrod but he quickly reverted that to a townread later on, so I want to hear more about why killjoy put Osie in null but has Wisp/DV as scum when Osie was the primary person pushing Axel.
I'll think about that PoE, killjoy putting Osie as null is really bad, but like my brain puts it on par with his town meta, of playing his own game. But he is also clearly not reading the game based on the post he made
@Grape
Talk to me about how your read doesn't work, because Crossbell was Osie?
I think killjoys, read on DV is completely incorrect, I could even find a more contextual reason as to why his aggressive behavior might be wolfy and it has nothing to with in itself. Which I stated on the last page, but I am still more convinced that DV is playing more townie, by not also throwing his vote around in a more omgus manner. I would like to know what his impression of that post was that led to him saying, "Killjoy is claiming wolf", or w/e it was he said
Dota voting the way he did, is also more likely to come from a townie than a wolf, now that I am thinking it over. But it can essentially be read as NAI? I think it's hard to determine someone is a wolf or town, based on reading the tone of one "aggressive" post. But like "most" wolves are usually pretty self aware of their votes, and don't tend to vote like that
Also that Proph post was good regardless of his alignment lol
Which post?
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I'll try to do a general summation of where I am at later today, but KJ/Grape *feels* right to me. Just thinking that scum are struggling to integrate themselves in the game.
@Proph: You said you were 99.9% sure who Crossbell was fairly early on this game. How did you know?
And then, when Crossbell denied being Osie, did you think he was lying (but still Town?) Or did you believe him and become unsure who he was?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Proph: You said you were 99.9% sure who Crossbell was fairly early on this game. How did you know?
And then, when Crossbell denied being Osie, did you think he was lying (but still Town?) Or did you believe him and become unsure who he was?
Osie indicated interest in playing in the MTGS discord, but didn't sign up and instead Crossbell signed up. Had a pretty sure guess it was him given that he's probably the only person who 1) would know about that username and 2) would sign up for this game under that username. And pretty much confirmed it was him when he started posting.
When Crossbell denied being Osie I thought he was lying but still town, because I think defending/protecting your alt identity is not alignment indicative.
@Killjoy
man its crazy how you haven't said anything that isn't a question, for like 3-4 days, and then you drop that god awful post on me? and your reaction to DV is even more piss poor than DV's reactions to pressure, which honestly it isn't even pressure, he just reacts to posts he believes are stupid. When exactly did DV become a wolf-lean for you? because you worded one post, "DV/Cross probably not aligned", and I am curious if you were already trying to find DV's partner in your world, or if you were just making a general statement. Either way, when did DV become a wolf lean for u? Also idk if you think its townie to just not saying anything about the top wagon, but heads up, its not townie, in the slightest lol. So like I asked before, please come back and give me a read on Osie/GJ, so I can actually evaluate your presence in this game
@Grape
so I looked at your wall, you did say something about the Wallpost wouldn't be as damning if Cross was Osie, which 1. that's weird, because early walls are well within his wolf meta, and 2. Him being Osie shouldn't have changed any of your other thoughts on the slot?
@Proph: You said you were 99.9% sure who Crossbell was fairly early on this game. How did you know?
And then, when Crossbell denied being Osie, did you think he was lying (but still Town?) Or did you believe him and become unsure who he was?
Osie indicated interest in playing in the MTGS discord, but didn't sign up and instead Crossbell signed up. Had a pretty sure guess it was him given that he's probably the only person who 1) would know about that username and 2) would sign up for this game under that username. And pretty much confirmed it was him when he started posting.
When Crossbell denied being Osie I thought he was lying but still town, because I think defending/protecting your alt identity is not alignment indicative.
I originally thought Cross was Silver, I decided he doesn't effort this roleplay this hard, and the other person who interacts with me like that is Osie. But again I had a hard time thinking Osie would come back, but their was a decent amount of smugness, that reminded me of Osie. But ya, I couldn't see that slot not being either Silver or Osie
@Killjoy
man its crazy how you haven't said anything that isn't a question, for like 3-4 days, and then you drop that god awful post on me? and your reaction to DV is even more piss poor than DV's reactions to pressure, which honestly it isn't even pressure, he just reacts to posts he believes are stupid. When exactly did DV become a wolf-lean for you? because you worded one post, "DV/Cross probably not aligned", and I am curious if you were already trying to find DV's partner in your world, or if you were just making a general statement. Either way, when did DV become a wolf lean for u? Also idk if you think its townie to just not saying anything about the top wagon, but heads up, its not townie, in the slightest lol. So like I asked before, please come back and give me a read on Osie/GJ, so I can actually evaluate your presence in this game
That's quite a post.
@Wisp:So first of all, you seem to be implying that you saying that I'm really null somehow means that you want to yeet me, which is why you countered with "but I said I didn't want you dead" or whatever, but that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that you saying that I'm really null so much is an attempt to persuade others of this, possibly in counter to others townreading me. I interepretted this as an attempt to drive the conversation subtly in that direction.
Like, imagine a conversation about you. "Wisp is a great dude" I say.
Just that, it's an opinion. It's just kinda sitting there. Others are talking about you, saying various things. DV is trying real hard to figure out what your name means. GJ is talking about the ecology of Will-o-the-Wisps from Scottish folklore. Proph is describing the shrine he has of you in his bedroom.
So a bit later, I pop in with another "Wisp is a great dude". The more I say this, the less passive it is. It's not just "I think he's cool" but now it's starting to move towards "and I think you should think so too". Conversation continues. DV: "WISP WHY". GJ: "And the Faeries in Ireland..." Proph: "Wisp body pillow"
Then I come in again "great dude". It's meant to be persuasive now. I said it again.
So, back to reality here: Just because you say you weren't gonna yeet me doesn't mean you weren't trying to degrade the townread on me to make yeeting me easier later. That was what I was saying there, that that's what I felt you were doing.
Second of all, DV. I know you've played with me enough to get how I do things. Obviously I haven't posted much this game, but activity is not alignment indicative for me, you know that. When did I think DV was scum? here. I thought that was DV showing his hand a bit. DV saw that Cross thought that Proph might be town, and instead of analyzing that info and trying to discern it's origin, he assumes the reason and jumps straight to "inside info" which does not logically follow. It was obviously just "Osie saw something that he thought was indicative of Proph's town game". Potentially manufacturing a scummy reason for that is bloodthirsty scum material. I'd argue he's doing the same with me when he said I claimed scum. Like, I made a post he supposedly disagreed with and in response... I'm scum. He doesn't seem to care why I hold this opinion, he just wants me gone. And that's not what town do typically.
Thirdly, I feel like trying to force me to have an opinion on someone I'm null on isn't gonna tell you much about my alignment, but I'll give it a go.
@DV: I'd say react inquisitively to my 'attack'. You don't have to kill everything that has a scumread on you.
Proph: I'll answer you vis a vis Axel's detractors after I finish rereading Osie.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
again, im not trying to persuade people of *****, if anything if people didn't give me a decent reason as to why you should die, I would be heavily against it. if you are town here, you make up nutty reasons as to why people are wolves, which honestly I am not at all surprised, given our many interactions in other games. But you should have a read on Osie, Osie doesn't sit at L1, L2 all game, and you are just like, "he is null", while people are trying to kill him. Also I know activity means nothing for you, but that doesn't mean you get to not do anything, half ass read the game, and half ass your reads, and be like, "Not posting is NAI for me"
Why wouldn't someone kill every wolf read on them?
@Proph
btw I still do not think GJ has to be town here, I am still thinking he is a wolf.
@Wisp:So first of all, you seem to be implying that you saying that I'm really null somehow means that you want to yeet me, which is why you countered with "but I said I didn't want you dead" or whatever, but that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that you saying that I'm really null so much is an attempt to persuade others of this, possibly in counter to others townreading me. I interepretted this as an attempt to drive the conversation subtly in that direction.
I could be mean, and tell you to just stop making reads, since I am kinda tired of your wild interpretations of the game state, but I'm not. But you certainly don't have to go out of your way to build an overinflated read if you are town here.
I kept talking about all my reads, I kept reiterating them, but your self-bias brain interprets reads on yourself differently
anyways I'm done talking to you, talk to me about Osie, and it better be a decent post
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A lot of his posts, when read individually didn't do much for me. Tone was fine, I guess. For the most part.
There were a few things that were off though when I ISO'd him just now.
Firstly, in 98, he had a lot of words for why DV was scum, but still had Axel as biggest scum for some reason.
I also don't think he and Wisp are scum together for the back and forth between them following this being very awkward.
But the biggest problem for me ends up being his progression onto his scumreads. As of 197, he was scumreading DV and Axel still as far as I could tell, but he offers to vote DotA with DV (who I don't think he'd said anyone about at that point) which... really makes no sense to me.
By 256 his reads don't seem to really have any substance, he's on Axel and DotA now, and he still really hasn't said too much about DotA yet.
By 360 he's flipped on me out of nowhere, now I'm suddenly a possibility and he's seriously entertaining me being scum despite continuously saying he thought I was town for various reasons.
All in all he feels like he's just kinda trying to yeet someone that he doesn't actually naturally scumread.
So that's what I got from his ISO. TBH I didn't really try really hard to read him before because I'm always so bad at it, and was gonna put it off till over Night/Tomorrow just because I didn't want to deal with it. So, er, sorry about that?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Second of all, DV. I know you've played with me enough to get how I do things. Obviously I haven't posted much this game, but activity is not alignment indicative for me, you know that. When did I think DV was scum? here. I thought that was DV showing his hand a bit. DV saw that Cross thought that Proph might be town, and instead of analyzing that info and trying to discern it's origin, he assumes the reason and jumps straight to "inside info" which does not logically follow. It was obviously just "Osie saw something that he thought was indicative of Proph's town game". Potentially manufacturing a scummy reason for that is bloodthirsty scum material. I'd argue he's doing the same with me when he said I claimed scum. Like, I made a post he supposedly disagreed with and in response... I'm scum. He doesn't seem to care why I hold this opinion, he just wants me gone. And that's not what town do typically.
First, I'm aware of activity.
I don't think I ever made that an attack on you, I find that odd for you to bring that up at all.
As to the rest I can see where you are coming from on that actually. I understand your thought process, you are entirely wrong but I get it.
Osie's read on Proph wasn't the only thing I was pinging on, but it was the most stand out to me at that point. My issue with Osie was his entire wall became "light excuse reads" that he then refused to ever explain in depth. Straight up I don't understand how that can come from a town perspective. I then continued pressure onto him as I often do and he crumbled going so far as to make ad hom attacks and just make ***** up and never explained *****.
Similar to how you are just ignoring the fact that you called me hedgy and now can't or won't back that up. Straight up after reading your last posts I think you are likely town because of how you reacted but threw buzzword salad into your post to make it have more weight. Which annoys me because you should know better, but c'est la vie.
So with that out of the way.
Pretty sure Wisp is town now that he's gotten active. KJ seems town enough that I don't want to touch him today.
That leaves
Gentleman_Johnny
Grapefruit21
Axelrod
Prophylaxis
DOTArchon
Cantripmancer
GJ has inherinted my Osie read, couple that with him replacing in and then ghosting makes me pretty sure I was right on this read. Could he just have replaced in as a favor and not be that into the game? Sure. But for me its already got just enough shade I'm happy to go here still. More later on Osie slot.
When it comes to grape I really like his 290 post, couple that with his gut read list being somewhere that I liked. One of the things I've noticed about Grape's town reads is that a lot of the times he is tone deaf to consensus town reads, and so his list was different than what the main town posters were posting at the time. I also don't think scum grape scum reads Proph and Cross who were the biggest posters at the time.
Reading over Dota's iso dota made this comment
Looking over your ISO I'm having a paranoid moment thinking you and Osie could be scum together, deciding in scumchat to push for being top posters in the game by focusing on conversing with one another and Wisp,especially since Osie decided to emulate you. It seems like too easy a trap to fall into though, so I'm trying not to give too much thought to it.
My ego really refuses to except this as a possibility. I don't think I could keep up that amount of interaction with a scum mate. If I have time tonight I'll go back and reread their interaction tonight since I skimmed a large portion of it when it was posted. I feel like I generally like Dota's thought process and find him to be town leaning.
I did have Cantrip as neutral, but I noticed post 241 which just screams town to me.
My Proph read is anemic. I don't think that he and Osie could or would have faked that much interaction. I also think by this point if he was scum he would be starting to peter out. HOWEVER, my general impression of Proph this game is that he has been sort of useless. This may be coupled with the fact that he and Osie were talking to each other to the exclusion of others, or this may be his scum game mimicking a more useless town game.
After rereading a lot of Proph's posts and trying to disconnect them from my association of Osie then he looks decently town to me, but... IDK I guess I'm a little tin foily about Proph. Lets say no touch Proph today.
So that's not a great read list, because I need at least two scum so I'm wrong somewhere.
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
How do these two posts below affect your read on Axel?
I don't get a ton out of them. DV focused in on the very first sentence of my comment on Axelrod and clearly didn't think much about the rest. Lastwhisper is using a meta read, which is just spewing wine into the thread.
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
How do these two posts below affect your read on Axel?
Axelrod - Needed to explain their RVS vote. Feels generally a bit awkward; possibly their first scumgame in a while? The only talk in the game they really do after that point is still playing defense, it seems. Not a good start for one of the better town players on the site. Scumread.
Axel always talks about himself and always spends more time explaining himself. Its not a scum read for him to want to explain himself fully so that players know what he is thinking. This is a newb scum read at best that doesn't understand the complexities of the game.
@Crossbell
I don't know, this is exactly how I expect Axelrod to start off as town, but then again, I have never seen an Axel wolf game
I wanted to highlight this post as I was rereading through.
Osie's first sentence was that Axel needed to explain his RVS vote. His other sentence was that he was playing defensively. That's his whole read, I read both sentences. To dismiss my point as me "Only reading his first sentence" when that is his only point isn't even remotely fair. Its another example of his hand waving and non engagement.
He's gone so I can't question him further on this. This is a tactic used by people that don't care about the truth and want to move foward their own narrative. If I was going to say someone was agenda driven this game it would have been Osie's posting which the more I read give me a touch of "Alt-Right" talking points in the sense of how his points are presented and argued.
I'm not a fan of Proph's comments about others scum reading him. If he's scum, he has perfected the OMGUS, but not saying exactly that. He made the comment about me that I was "setting up chain miss elims". Anyone could say that about anyone.
"Oh X is scum reading three people setting up chain miss elims over the next three days."
Also it rubs me the wrong way that he kept bringing up that Osie was at L-2/L-1. We get it he's close to being eliminated.
I'm doing July 4th stuff today. I'll try to have something more comprehensive to say tomorrow. I don't "think" I'm getting away from Crossbell/Osie though. GJ isn't dazzling me with his Towniness so far, and Osie was just pretty bad.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
"GJ isn't dazzling me despite only being in the game for 3/4 days over a holiday weekend."
Why did I agree to sub in again?
Quote from LW »
@Proph
btw I still do not think GJ has to be town here, I am still thinking he is a wolf.
Then get the hammer back on and don't waste my time.
As far as KJ goes, I think him being hedgey is more leaned toward TWTBW. Even basic wolves would think to go one direction or another. His lack of push elsewhere (until recently) was more of a red flag to me.
Grape > Dota > Axel if I fall. Axel lost stock with me as I feel this
Quote from Axelrod »
GJ isn't dazzling me with his Towniness so far, and Osie was just pretty bad.
This doesn't read genuine or good faith to me. This reads like an agenda being pushed.
Mostly keeping up via phone. Computer was finally fixed so I was back online, but I thought I'd have a bit of breathing room to catch up given the holiday. Does not appear to be the case.
Man your slot is just a big bad of controversy isn't it? 3/4 days is more than half of the day phase, so sure? Honestly man I want to really attack that post but it's completely irrelevant to the game at hand, I want you to post, because I can read you when you post, your previous holder did you no justice. I will vote you off, and I won't even blink twice if somehow you flip town. Your statement isn't far to the other players also holding your win-con.
I'm pretty sure this puts you back at L1, I'm not going to even check lmao, that's how much I don't care for your post above
Already mentioned, but what I said and what Crossbell said were really different things, and said in different ways. I have a hard time seeing you draw this parallel in your mind.
And then there was Crossbell's big review post. TLDR: I do not like this post.
Here's the piece by piece:
Feels slightly weird to me, joke notwithstanding. When I do these, I will often list myself at the top, but I don't think I've ever done a joke analysis of myself.
And here I just disagree. The conclusion of Proph in post #30 and his vote for Wisp was on the basis that Wisp feels "incredibly clumsy" to him, and I don't see that. So when I see people agreeing with something I don't agree with, again the
I have a mild Town read on GF also, but I don't know why they even bring up the "second vote in RVS" thing only to dismiss it. This post reads more like a neutral read, with the calling the Wisp question "random," another Proph question "okay," and another post "unexplained," but ends with Town-lean based on liking the overall "flow/point" of another post (despite disagreeing with the wording) and then liking the "thought process" of a final post (even though it's wrong). All those qualifications really call this read into question for me.
This is another post where, like, everything they are saying about Wisp is bad. Everything seems to be reason for suspicion. But they end on "slightly above null" for no discernable reason at all. This is just not my town mind-set. If I'm town-leaning someone, I don't go on and on about the things I don't like about them. It's irrational.
Killjoy had exactly 1 post with any game content in it to this point. Now, I also kind of liked that 1 post, but for apparently different reasons. Killjoy was NOT, as far as I can tell, floating an "Axel/DoTA are potential scum-buddies" theory. He was specifically saying that the fact I left Timetwister (DoTA) off my list of Blue cards to vote probably means we WOULDN'T be scum-buddies together. So, I don't even know what Crossbell is talking about here.
Okay
Well this was mangled in multi quote but I really liked this post by Axel. It's showing a lot of the same thought processes I had wrt to Cross before the reveal and replace. I don't think the effort to draw blood from a stone with an early readswall is as scum indicative for Osie as it would be for literally anyone else in this game and that was almost my entire case on him, but I don't have fresh enough memory to know if the dissonance between the reads provided and the placement is scum indicative for Osie. The effort isn't but this particular one might be and I'm really not sure how to evaluate it.
I hadn't said anything about Grape at all prior to my posting of my semi sorting hat. I'm not exactly sure what to make of the question Grape is asking. Going to have to do some thinking on Grape tonight. Like his big post, don't like this question he made.
The reevaluation of Cross was going from the criticism in 119 to putting them in the 0-1 scum grouping in 194. As for the read on me you are correct you hadn't given an opinion on me before. Not sure if I mixed you up with someone else or what happened there. The Cross thing is interesting though because that's really the only post where you express a strong positive opinion on Cross in the early game and I'm not sure why you did. Doesn't really fit at all.
We got 3 people who play their own game in this topic
Grape, DV, and Osie to a lesser extent
so its somewhat useless to bother with trying to change their minds, until we get a dead body that either proves them right or makes them have to re-evaluate
Hey! One of my best mafia traits is my ability to change gears and completely reevaluate. Sure I tunnel but I'm very good at leaving a tunnel completely behind once I change my mind.
Man your slot is just a big bad of controversy isn't it? 3/4 days is more than half of the day phase, so sure? Honestly man I want to really attack that post but it's completely irrelevant to the game at hand, I want you to post, because I can read you when you post, your previous holder did you no justice. I will vote you off, and I won't even blink twice if somehow you flip town. Your statement isn't far to the other players also holding your win-con.
I'm pretty sure this puts you back at L1, I'm not going to even check lmao, that's how much I don't care for your post above
[b]Vote: GJ[/]
L1 again, I presume
Controversy? See how I wasn't on the original replacement list? I have had no working computer for the last month. I have my phone which I loathe to type, and while I was preparing my house to have guests over, Highroller asked me to fill in. The only reason he would do that is in classic MTGS fashion, the sub list either didn't exist or was exhausted. I don't think Cross did anything too wrong, but for better or worse, you got me. I said from the very start I didn't have a computer, and tried to read the game, and throw some analysis out from the first day I got here. The fact that I am being told it's not good enough is whatever. When I get called for ghosting over a [b]mother******* holiday weekend where I only have my phone[/b]. Also I was actively posting on Friday to an extent, and mostly waiting for responses back. The fact of the matter is that the only reason I put forth an effort was that there was apparently no one else to do so.
Now that I got the salt out, what miracles are you hoping to pull out of my ass? You know how I feel about replacements, if you were ready to end the day on Cross/Osie/whoever, why waste my time with the replacement? I don't even know what the current deadline is since opening is still showing it as the 2nd of July. The role is town, and honestly, I don't even know why my slot got run up. I can't find a significant reason that Osie/Cross would want to be the center of attention, which is what the tone should have been indicative of. Instead, the wagon popped out of nowhere, Proph get chainsaw defended for being alarmed at how quick it built up, is being consideered for wolf as well by a lot of people? Like lol at all of you.
I think I would have thought Axel 10x better if he just left his vote on me and went this changes nothing, instead of hemming and hawing about replacements and then finding a way to get back on because I can't dazzle him from the 2nd-4th of July.
Quote from Dota »
Interesting that Axel is on your eliminate list, I've found him to be townier as he posts more.
[b]Tempted to hammer, but I still owe you an answer from earlier and this day is not over yet.[/b]
The bolded is so bad, I can't believe anyone is even considering me.
Think the wolves plan this game is to discredit or mislunch one or both of us, and that is why I am suspicious of DV
This is still giving me the heebie jeebies. I'm town reading Wisp to some degree, and Proph knowing Cross was Osie makes it make a bit more sense, but where is the suspicion on me? I literally made a case on both Proph and Osie with the qualifier that both can't be scum together. Weird stuff.
I really don't think they can both be scum, they have spent the majority of their posts talking to each other and only each other for that to be the case IMO.
Grabbed this because he's right and while I've been liking Axel I have a hard time imaging the thought process that would lead me to believe that Cross and Proph were buddies at that point.
GJ, the retired person who keeps getting dragged back in
Wisp, guy who feels genuine and solvy
Proph, don't get why he is getting any hate, I don't see it
Axelrod, I don't know, doesn't seem that town, but seems townier than anyone else.
KJ, still doesn't dazzle me
DV, probably straight null. Gun to my head, I move him to town, since he seems interactive but I really got nothing here.
Cantripmancer: That DV read looked real bad. I hesitate as I feel one of the few players left who has played longer than me really makes that move as a wolf, but eh.
DotaArchon, the guy who plays my favorite game. I just haven't liked his tone. I thought his post about me/Axel being unlikely V/V, but more likely W/V or W/W just reads bad.
I am missing someone based on the game name which feels awkward. I could go back to look, but nothing has actually stuck out to me about them to remember they are in the game so take that as you will.
Someone else mentioned but the wording on Axel is weird when paired with the Wisp and Proph reads. If he didn't have town reads then whatever but that read feels wrong coming after two town reads.
tl;dr - I just don't see the maliciousness. Osie was super over the top and hyperactive, but I think he has constant foot-in-mouth syndrome like me, and that was even more amplified because he chose to intentionally emulate my posting style. I feel like if he randed scum this game, he would have been a lot more reserved and play more by-the-book rather than ruffle people's feathers early.
It's too long to quote but Proph's giant wall explaining his Osie read doesn't really work for me and the TLDR doesn't really summarize the majority of his post.
The body mostly talks about his own mindset in interacting with Osie and barely mentions reasons for actively town reading him. The first 3 paragraphs end with a negative view! And they are the most in depth. After that Proph just mostly points to his older posts as explanations for his reads and uses the line about missing maliciousness.
The big problem I have with this post is that he's presenting it as a long promised explanation about his Osie read but he doesn't really do that. It's a sublte difference but it's more a justification for his read than it is a read of Osie.
This line in particular sticks out to me: "I keep interacting with Osie and I am using him sort of a sounding board to re-evaluate my own reads, like the one scumread I had on Wisp at the time:"
That does nothing to explain why he thought Osie was town but it does justify Proph's actions. This isn't someone trying to enlighten the game, it's someone trying to protect themselves from blowback. The TLDR provides a postitive case for Osie but it's also a weak case that doesn't really justify the strength proph was posting with or the repeated delays in explaining it. Activity, TWTBAW, and roleplay isn't this indepth case that is hard to explain. This definitely feels like covering tracks and retroactive justification more than it feels like a natural town case.
I'll think about that PoE, killjoy putting Osie as null is really bad, but like my brain puts it on par with his town meta, of playing his own game. But he is also clearly not reading the game based on the post he made
@Grape
Talk to me about how your read doesn't work, because Crossbell was Osie?
@Grape
so I looked at your wall, you did say something about the Wallpost wouldn't be as damning if Cross was Osie, which 1. that's weird, because early walls are well within his wolf meta, and 2. Him being Osie shouldn't have changed any of your other thoughts on the slot?
Why is it weird? Osie is notorious for posting walls early that get him scum read. It's in his wolf range but it being overblown isn't something that deserves a tunnel like it would be for most people. The other thoughts still apply but the wall was the crux of the case at this point. The jaggedness of his tone early is worth very little at this stage and while the actual criticisms of the wall apply the urgency of delving into them is less because Osie is always going to force himself to give an explanation for everyone by post 100-150. Still side eyeing the slot over the actual content of the reads on you and me in particular but it's just less of a 5 alarm siren than it was before I knew it was Osie.
I'll think about that PoE, killjoy putting Osie as null is really bad, but like my brain puts it on par with his town meta, of playing his own game. But he is also clearly not reading the game based on the post he made
@Grape
Talk to me about how your read doesn't work, because Crossbell was Osie?
@Grape
so I looked at your wall, you did say something about the Wallpost wouldn't be as damning if Cross was Osie, which 1. that's weird, because early walls are well within his wolf meta, and 2. Him being Osie shouldn't have changed any of your other thoughts on the slot?
Why is it weird? Osie is notorious for posting walls early that get him scum read. It's in his wolf range but it being overblown isn't something that deserves a tunnel like it would be for most people. The other thoughts still apply but the wall was the crux of the case at this point. The jaggedness of his tone early is worth very little at this stage and while the actual criticisms of the wall apply the urgency of delving into them is less because Osie is always going to force himself to give an explanation for everyone by post 100-150. Still side eyeing the slot over the actual content of the reads on you and me in particular but it's just less of a 5 alarm siren than it was before I knew it was Osie.
Fine, I'll give GJ one more day phase, but between him and Osie, I'm still not happy, but that will be irrelevant, if dota is a wolf here. I can't say I don't agree with GJ that, that dota post is kinda wolfy
Also Again, while I think KJs post was stupid, andi can pull out wolf equity, I don't really believe this is wolf him trying to create an agenda. But holy ***** calling Osie null was gross.
I'll think about that PoE, killjoy putting Osie as null is really bad, but like my brain puts it on par with his town meta, of playing his own game. But he is also clearly not reading the game based on the post he made
@Grape
Talk to me about how your read doesn't work, because Crossbell was Osie?
@Grape
so I looked at your wall, you did say something about the Wallpost wouldn't be as damning if Cross was Osie, which 1. that's weird, because early walls are well within his wolf meta, and 2. Him being Osie shouldn't have changed any of your other thoughts on the slot?
Why is it weird? Osie is notorious for posting walls early that get him scum read. It's in his wolf range but it being overblown isn't something that deserves a tunnel like it would be for most people. The other thoughts still apply but the wall was the crux of the case at this point. The jaggedness of his tone early is worth very little at this stage and while the actual criticisms of the wall apply the urgency of delving into them is less because Osie is always going to force himself to give an explanation for everyone by post 100-150. Still side eyeing the slot over the actual content of the reads on you and me in particular but it's just less of a 5 alarm siren than it was before I knew it was Osie.
@GJ
Maybe I am projecting too much, expecting you to play a certain way. But I don't appreciate you telling me to just hammer you. I want to find you if you are town, and your slot has been one of my fenciest slots. So I am/was trying to solve you, especially give your train size.
Currently my solve is something like Grapefruit/KJ assuming my PoE is correct.
Grapefruit has fallen out of my townreads because of the infrequency of his posts, and I am townreading more people whom I was scumreading at the time (DoTA/Axel have posted good stuff).
I know DV voted Axelrod but he quickly reverted that to a townread later on, so I want to hear more about why killjoy put Osie in null but has Wisp/DV as scum when Osie was the primary person pushing Axel.
Vote killjoy
@Grape
Talk to me about how your read doesn't work, because Crossbell was Osie?
---
I'll try to do a general summation of where I am at later today, but KJ/Grape *feels* right to me. Just thinking that scum are struggling to integrate themselves in the game.
And then, when Crossbell denied being Osie, did you think he was lying (but still Town?) Or did you believe him and become unsure who he was?
Vote: Killjoy
@Highroller
im going to take a broader look at Grape at some point today
I will await his answer to my question as well
Osie indicated interest in playing in the MTGS discord, but didn't sign up and instead Crossbell signed up. Had a pretty sure guess it was him given that he's probably the only person who 1) would know about that username and 2) would sign up for this game under that username. And pretty much confirmed it was him when he started posting.
When Crossbell denied being Osie I thought he was lying but still town, because I think defending/protecting your alt identity is not alignment indicative.
man its crazy how you haven't said anything that isn't a question, for like 3-4 days, and then you drop that god awful post on me? and your reaction to DV is even more piss poor than DV's reactions to pressure, which honestly it isn't even pressure, he just reacts to posts he believes are stupid. When exactly did DV become a wolf-lean for you? because you worded one post, "DV/Cross probably not aligned", and I am curious if you were already trying to find DV's partner in your world, or if you were just making a general statement. Either way, when did DV become a wolf lean for u? Also idk if you think its townie to just not saying anything about the top wagon, but heads up, its not townie, in the slightest lol. So like I asked before, please come back and give me a read on Osie/GJ, so I can actually evaluate your presence in this game
so I looked at your wall, you did say something about the Wallpost wouldn't be as damning if Cross was Osie, which 1. that's weird, because early walls are well within his wolf meta, and 2. Him being Osie shouldn't have changed any of your other thoughts on the slot?
@Wisp:So first of all, you seem to be implying that you saying that I'm really null somehow means that you want to yeet me, which is why you countered with "but I said I didn't want you dead" or whatever, but that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that you saying that I'm really null so much is an attempt to persuade others of this, possibly in counter to others townreading me. I interepretted this as an attempt to drive the conversation subtly in that direction.
Like, imagine a conversation about you. "Wisp is a great dude" I say.
Just that, it's an opinion. It's just kinda sitting there. Others are talking about you, saying various things. DV is trying real hard to figure out what your name means. GJ is talking about the ecology of Will-o-the-Wisps from Scottish folklore. Proph is describing the shrine he has of you in his bedroom.
So a bit later, I pop in with another "Wisp is a great dude". The more I say this, the less passive it is. It's not just "I think he's cool" but now it's starting to move towards "and I think you should think so too". Conversation continues. DV: "WISP WHY". GJ: "And the Faeries in Ireland..." Proph: "Wisp body pillow"
Then I come in again "great dude". It's meant to be persuasive now. I said it again.
So, back to reality here: Just because you say you weren't gonna yeet me doesn't mean you weren't trying to degrade the townread on me to make yeeting me easier later. That was what I was saying there, that that's what I felt you were doing.
Second of all, DV. I know you've played with me enough to get how I do things. Obviously I haven't posted much this game, but activity is not alignment indicative for me, you know that. When did I think DV was scum? here. I thought that was DV showing his hand a bit. DV saw that Cross thought that Proph might be town, and instead of analyzing that info and trying to discern it's origin, he assumes the reason and jumps straight to "inside info" which does not logically follow. It was obviously just "Osie saw something that he thought was indicative of Proph's town game". Potentially manufacturing a scummy reason for that is bloodthirsty scum material. I'd argue he's doing the same with me when he said I claimed scum. Like, I made a post he supposedly disagreed with and in response... I'm scum. He doesn't seem to care why I hold this opinion, he just wants me gone. And that's not what town do typically.
Thirdly, I feel like trying to force me to have an opinion on someone I'm null on isn't gonna tell you much about my alignment, but I'll give it a go.
@DV: I'd say react inquisitively to my 'attack'. You don't have to kill everything that has a scumread on you.
Proph: I'll answer you vis a vis Axel's detractors after I finish rereading Osie.
Why wouldn't someone kill every wolf read on them?
@Proph
btw I still do not think GJ has to be town here, I am still thinking he is a wolf.
I kept talking about all my reads, I kept reiterating them, but your self-bias brain interprets reads on yourself differently
anyways I'm done talking to you, talk to me about Osie, and it better be a decent post
can we go back plz
I'm going to sleep
I'm not bitter at all over this.
Nope not one bit.
Yay tunneling :upside_down_smile:
A lot of his posts, when read individually didn't do much for me. Tone was fine, I guess. For the most part.
There were a few things that were off though when I ISO'd him just now.
Firstly, in 98, he had a lot of words for why DV was scum, but still had Axel as biggest scum for some reason.
I also don't think he and Wisp are scum together for the back and forth between them following this being very awkward.
But the biggest problem for me ends up being his progression onto his scumreads. As of 197, he was scumreading DV and Axel still as far as I could tell, but he offers to vote DotA with DV (who I don't think he'd said anyone about at that point) which... really makes no sense to me.
By 256 his reads don't seem to really have any substance, he's on Axel and DotA now, and he still really hasn't said too much about DotA yet.
By 360 he's flipped on me out of nowhere, now I'm suddenly a possibility and he's seriously entertaining me being scum despite continuously saying he thought I was town for various reasons.
All in all he feels like he's just kinda trying to yeet someone that he doesn't actually naturally scumread.
So that's what I got from his ISO. TBH I didn't really try really hard to read him before because I'm always so bad at it, and was gonna put it off till over Night/Tomorrow just because I didn't want to deal with it. So, er, sorry about that?
First, I'm aware of activity.
I don't think I ever made that an attack on you, I find that odd for you to bring that up at all.
As to the rest I can see where you are coming from on that actually. I understand your thought process, you are entirely wrong but I get it.
Osie's read on Proph wasn't the only thing I was pinging on, but it was the most stand out to me at that point. My issue with Osie was his entire wall became "light excuse reads" that he then refused to ever explain in depth. Straight up I don't understand how that can come from a town perspective. I then continued pressure onto him as I often do and he crumbled going so far as to make ad hom attacks and just make ***** up and never explained *****.
Similar to how you are just ignoring the fact that you called me hedgy and now can't or won't back that up. Straight up after reading your last posts I think you are likely town because of how you reacted but threw buzzword salad into your post to make it have more weight. Which annoys me because you should know better, but c'est la vie.
So with that out of the way.
Pretty sure Wisp is town now that he's gotten active. KJ seems town enough that I don't want to touch him today.
That leaves
Gentleman_Johnny
Grapefruit21
Axelrod
Prophylaxis
DOTArchon
Cantripmancer
Axel seems very town to me right now.
Gentleman_Johnny
Grapefruit21
Prophylaxis
DOTArchon
Cantripmancer
Alright give me a bit to write up thoughts on this group.
When it comes to grape I really like his 290 post, couple that with his gut read list being somewhere that I liked. One of the things I've noticed about Grape's town reads is that a lot of the times he is tone deaf to consensus town reads, and so his list was different than what the main town posters were posting at the time. I also don't think scum grape scum reads Proph and Cross who were the biggest posters at the time.
Reading over Dota's iso dota made this comment
My ego really refuses to except this as a possibility. I don't think I could keep up that amount of interaction with a scum mate. If I have time tonight I'll go back and reread their interaction tonight since I skimmed a large portion of it when it was posted. I feel like I generally like Dota's thought process and find him to be town leaning.
I did have Cantrip as neutral, but I noticed post 241 which just screams town to me.
My Proph read is anemic. I don't think that he and Osie could or would have faked that much interaction. I also think by this point if he was scum he would be starting to peter out. HOWEVER, my general impression of Proph this game is that he has been sort of useless. This may be coupled with the fact that he and Osie were talking to each other to the exclusion of others, or this may be his scum game mimicking a more useless town game.
After rereading a lot of Proph's posts and trying to disconnect them from my association of Osie then he looks decently town to me, but... IDK I guess I'm a little tin foily about Proph. Lets say no touch Proph today.
So that's not a great read list, because I need at least two scum so I'm wrong somewhere.
I wanted to highlight this post as I was rereading through.
Osie's first sentence was that Axel needed to explain his RVS vote. His other sentence was that he was playing defensively. That's his whole read, I read both sentences. To dismiss my point as me "Only reading his first sentence" when that is his only point isn't even remotely fair. Its another example of his hand waving and non engagement.
He's gone so I can't question him further on this. This is a tactic used by people that don't care about the truth and want to move foward their own narrative. If I was going to say someone was agenda driven this game it would have been Osie's posting which the more I read give me a touch of "Alt-Right" talking points in the sense of how his points are presented and argued.
Maybe sleep will help.
I'm not a fan of Proph's comments about others scum reading him. If he's scum, he has perfected the OMGUS, but not saying exactly that. He made the comment about me that I was "setting up chain miss elims". Anyone could say that about anyone.
"Oh X is scum reading three people setting up chain miss elims over the next three days."
Also it rubs me the wrong way that he kept bringing up that Osie was at L-2/L-1. We get it he's close to being eliminated.
that's a lot better, even if u didn't talk about DVs hedging
i wanna go back to Crossbell, whats their train at?
"GJ isn't dazzling me despite only being in the game for 3/4 days over a holiday weekend."
Why did I agree to sub in again?
Then get the hammer back on and don't waste my time.
As far as KJ goes, I think him being hedgey is more leaned toward TWTBW. Even basic wolves would think to go one direction or another. His lack of push elsewhere (until recently) was more of a red flag to me.
Grape > Dota > Axel if I fall. Axel lost stock with me as I feel this
This doesn't read genuine or good faith to me. This reads like an agenda being pushed.
Mostly keeping up via phone. Computer was finally fixed so I was back online, but I thought I'd have a bit of breathing room to catch up given the holiday. Does not appear to be the case.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm pretty sure this puts you back at L1, I'm not going to even check lmao, that's how much I don't care for your post above
[b]Vote: GJ[/]
L1 again, I presume
Tempted to hammer, but I still owe you an answer from earlier and this day is not over yet.
Sigh, I can't trust people
Invite:
My vote is spiritually on GJ
God damn auto correct
Well this was mangled in multi quote but I really liked this post by Axel. It's showing a lot of the same thought processes I had wrt to Cross before the reveal and replace. I don't think the effort to draw blood from a stone with an early readswall is as scum indicative for Osie as it would be for literally anyone else in this game and that was almost my entire case on him, but I don't have fresh enough memory to know if the dissonance between the reads provided and the placement is scum indicative for Osie. The effort isn't but this particular one might be and I'm really not sure how to evaluate it.
The reevaluation of Cross was going from the criticism in 119 to putting them in the 0-1 scum grouping in 194. As for the read on me you are correct you hadn't given an opinion on me before. Not sure if I mixed you up with someone else or what happened there. The Cross thing is interesting though because that's really the only post where you express a strong positive opinion on Cross in the early game and I'm not sure why you did. Doesn't really fit at all.
Hey! One of my best mafia traits is my ability to change gears and completely reevaluate. Sure I tunnel but I'm very good at leaving a tunnel completely behind once I change my mind.
Onto page 9.
Controversy? See how I wasn't on the original replacement list? I have had no working computer for the last month. I have my phone which I loathe to type, and while I was preparing my house to have guests over, Highroller asked me to fill in. The only reason he would do that is in classic MTGS fashion, the sub list either didn't exist or was exhausted. I don't think Cross did anything too wrong, but for better or worse, you got me. I said from the very start I didn't have a computer, and tried to read the game, and throw some analysis out from the first day I got here. The fact that I am being told it's not good enough is whatever. When I get called for ghosting over a [b]mother******* holiday weekend where I only have my phone[/b]. Also I was actively posting on Friday to an extent, and mostly waiting for responses back. The fact of the matter is that the only reason I put forth an effort was that there was apparently no one else to do so.
Now that I got the salt out, what miracles are you hoping to pull out of my ass? You know how I feel about replacements, if you were ready to end the day on Cross/Osie/whoever, why waste my time with the replacement? I don't even know what the current deadline is since opening is still showing it as the 2nd of July. The role is town, and honestly, I don't even know why my slot got run up. I can't find a significant reason that Osie/Cross would want to be the center of attention, which is what the tone should have been indicative of. Instead, the wagon popped out of nowhere, Proph get chainsaw defended for being alarmed at how quick it built up, is being consideered for wolf as well by a lot of people? Like lol at all of you.
I think I would have thought Axel 10x better if he just left his vote on me and went this changes nothing, instead of hemming and hawing about replacements and then finding a way to get back on because I can't dazzle him from the 2nd-4th of July.
The bolded is so bad, I can't believe anyone is even considering me.
[b]Vote DotaArchon[/b]
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Really don't think he's a hit. I want more people to address or talk about my Osie defense post rather than shrug deadline lunching him.
Still think the team is KJ/Grape. I'll try to post and detail my thought process more tomorrow.
This is still giving me the heebie jeebies. I'm town reading Wisp to some degree, and Proph knowing Cross was Osie makes it make a bit more sense, but where is the suspicion on me? I literally made a case on both Proph and Osie with the qualifier that both can't be scum together. Weird stuff.
Grabbed this because he's right and while I've been liking Axel I have a hard time imaging the thought process that would lead me to believe that Cross and Proph were buddies at that point.
Someone else mentioned but the wording on Axel is weird when paired with the Wisp and Proph reads. If he didn't have town reads then whatever but that read feels wrong coming after two town reads.
It's too long to quote but Proph's giant wall explaining his Osie read doesn't really work for me and the TLDR doesn't really summarize the majority of his post.
The body mostly talks about his own mindset in interacting with Osie and barely mentions reasons for actively town reading him. The first 3 paragraphs end with a negative view! And they are the most in depth. After that Proph just mostly points to his older posts as explanations for his reads and uses the line about missing maliciousness.
The big problem I have with this post is that he's presenting it as a long promised explanation about his Osie read but he doesn't really do that. It's a sublte difference but it's more a justification for his read than it is a read of Osie.
This line in particular sticks out to me: "I keep interacting with Osie and I am using him sort of a sounding board to re-evaluate my own reads, like the one scumread I had on Wisp at the time:"
That does nothing to explain why he thought Osie was town but it does justify Proph's actions. This isn't someone trying to enlighten the game, it's someone trying to protect themselves from blowback. The TLDR provides a postitive case for Osie but it's also a weak case that doesn't really justify the strength proph was posting with or the repeated delays in explaining it. Activity, TWTBAW, and roleplay isn't this indepth case that is hard to explain. This definitely feels like covering tracks and retroactive justification more than it feels like a natural town case.
Vote: Proph
Why is it weird? Osie is notorious for posting walls early that get him scum read. It's in his wolf range but it being overblown isn't something that deserves a tunnel like it would be for most people. The other thoughts still apply but the wall was the crux of the case at this point. The jaggedness of his tone early is worth very little at this stage and while the actual criticisms of the wall apply the urgency of delving into them is less because Osie is always going to force himself to give an explanation for everyone by post 100-150. Still side eyeing the slot over the actual content of the reads on you and me in particular but it's just less of a 5 alarm siren than it was before I knew it was Osie.
Relatedly if this is about Proph's wall lol
Wall!=good
That isn't the kind of posting style I expect from town!GJ man, sigh. People keep posting and they look good on surface level
*Cries"
Yes, but Osie also refused to back up any of his very poor reads when pressured and also said that things were "All going according to plan"
Vote: Dota
Maybe I am projecting too much, expecting you to play a certain way. But I don't appreciate you telling me to just hammer you. I want to find you if you are town, and your slot has been one of my fenciest slots. So I am/was trying to solve you, especially give your train size.
Proph/Dota? Maybe? If it's not GJ