KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
With the verdict reached, the remaining members of the Power Nine surrounded Timetwister.
“Timetwister, you have been condemned to die by a jury of your peers. Have you anything left to say?”
"You really think you can defeat me? I'm a master of time!"
"Yeah, enough posturing, let's go!"
A brutal fight ensues, but as the dust settles, TImetwister lies dead.
"Yes! We did it!"
Suddenly, a blinding flash of light engulfs everyone. Timetwister stands, completely unharmed.
"Oh damn it! He's rewinding time!"
"That's right!"
"Kill him again then!"
The Power Nine, now six, attack Timetwister with everything they have. Each time, Timetwister reforms. Thousands and thousands of times, Timetwister dies, only to return again.
"It's no use! I am invincible! You cannot destroy me!"
"What do we do now?"
"I have a plan! Extract his spirit!"
Surrounding him, the Power Nine proceed to syphon Timetwister's soul out of his body.
"Where do we put it?"
"Into this ring!"
Extracting Timetwister's essence, the remaining six place it within a golden ring.
"Now quick, cast it into the hottest part of the fire!"
In a dramatic moment, the six throw the ring into the volcano. It melts, destroying Timetwister's essence entirely.
"We did it!"
"Wait, what's happening?"
At the point where the ring melts, the lava begins to cool. A chain reaction forms, as the entire volcano planet's lava begins to cool to stone.
"Now that he's destroyed, the entire volcano plane is collapsing!"
"How does that even work? Why would he make the entire land collapse?
"Who cares?! We have to get out of here!"
The Power Nine flee as the entire volcano planet collapses behind them.
DOTArchon is dead. He was TOWN.
Night will last for 48 hours. Day will begin on July 17!
Fleeing the ruined volcano plane, the Power Nine emerged on the plane of Dominaria. Each of them was rocked by what felt like a shockwave of unimaginable magnitude.
"Did you feel that?"
"Yes. Do we know what it was?"
"I believe it was Mox Emerald."
It was then that the Power Nine - now the Power Five - looked about them to notice yet another of their number was missing.
As a human may flip through a book, so did the five scan through the past to find Mox Emerald's fate.
"He never made it. He was intercepted."
"And so he fled through the multiverse, to a place his pursuers would never find."
"So they didn't try to look. They destroyed any other plane he could have gone to."
"Leaving no other ground but this one."
"They destroyed every single plane except Dominaria."
"Then this is the ground upon which we make our final stand."
"That's fine. Oversaturating our senses with red mana in an attempt to even the playing field proved fruitless. If we are to die, let us die in our own element."
I take full responsibility for the DoTA mislunch, and it's on me if we lose this game.
It's just like, dude - if you're town there, you have to give me /something/. Passionless notes dumping, a vote on KJ, and then peacing out was very difficult to work with. I'm sorry DoTA.
Think this is pretty obvious but, for posterity's sake:
Do not vote early
Do not vote early
Do not vote early
We will be approaching this lylo the /correct/ way, which is constant rereading, analysis, and arguing with each other over who the three villagers are, and who the two scum are. We will only vote in the last 24 or so hours, once we've hopefully agreed on a gamesolve. If I see any early votes, that will be treated as a scumclaim. If I wake up to find myself or someone else quickhammered, there will be /words/ postgame.
I'll start rereading this game tomorrow night I think. I am fairly busy this weekend.
Gonna try to do a hard reads reset and approach the game with the knowledge that four townies have flipped, since that is the only real information we have to work off of.
Honestly just couldn't believe DoTA flipped town. Spent that last hour or so just refreshing my phone waiting for Highroller to post the flip, and then saw blue and that kinda ruined my night
I had some doubts (like when he brought up the fact that why he would kill DV if DV was the only person defending him, him citing his IRL business a lot, his self-referencing as town and how all of his posts were wholly /fine/) but I couldn't get past the fact that he was tunnelled on GJ Day 1 and just.. didn't show any emotion about being wrong, or had any attempt to re-evaluate Day 2. He just felt like a robot and I thought that mindset was strongly wolf indicative.
Honestly just couldn't believe DoTA flipped town. Spent that last hour or so just refreshing my phone waiting for Highroller to post the flip, and then saw blue and that kinda ruined my night
I had some doubts (like when he brought up the fact that why he would kill DV if DV was the only person defending him, him citing his IRL business a lot, his self-referencing as town and how all of his posts were wholly /fine/) but I couldn't get past the fact that he was tunnelled on GJ Day 1 and just.. didn't show any emotion about being wrong, or had any attempt to re-evaluate Day 2. He just felt like a robot and I thought that mindset was strongly wolf indicative.
i mean its kinda irrelevant, and also wifom, but I guess a lot of things can be either, "Do I believe this, or do I not believe this"
and if you are busy enough that it effects your ability to play, then do yourself and us a favor. The lack of emotion was super hard to read from a town perspective.
I really wish you would stop making these kinda of posts, the genuinity of these posts does not exist for me. I know why town you would say it, and I know why would you would say, but man. Your emotions have been the saving grace of your slot at certain points, and I really need to give you a good reread.
Thread direction, allowed us to both be alive today, regardless of our alignments, which given how everyone treated Axel outside Killjoy, I kinda new this was gunna happen, even still, I was really hoping I died coming in to today
@Proph
I also don't understand why you feel like you need to go out of your way, to justify the mistake? There is nothing I hate more than looking back at all the tiniest things that could have made you believe he was town, because one, most of us, including u, were looking at what made everyone else townier. So talking about all the things you "think" you should have accounted for, means very little to me.
lets see how long it takes for everyone to enter the thread
I mean, feel free to read into it, but I just got pissy last night and wanted to vent my frustration into the thread. Just for sure thought he was going to flip W given that he didn't try to self-defend or be around for EoD.
I mean, feel free to read into it, but I just got pissy last night and wanted to vent my frustration into the thread. Just for sure thought he was going to flip W given that he didn't try to self-defend or be around for EoD.
Will be around more tonight.
I'm used to it by now, I assume most players outside a certain extent of players, have no care for the games they play in.
Sorry I missed Day start, I was away over the weekend.
Fundamentally, there are now three possible worlds:
- The team is exactly Proph and LW
- The team is exactly Grape and KJ
- The team is split between those two groups
The first is unlikely because a) LW is the town read I am most comfortable with and b) the way Proph and LW have interacted and read each other throughout the game would be an unreal and unecessary amount of scum theatre, especially after reading the game where they were buddies where they acted much more simply and tactically.
Given that KJ and Grape don't look great but also not that scummy, the second world is not only possible but realistically more likely since Proph was at leasta town read which is harder than either KJ or GF managed, but I am nervous about sticking with the same PoE which hasn't worked out so far. Because of my read on LW, the last world only works with Proph + KJ/GF. So not really that many options.
So the key questions for my due diligence now are: is Proph scum? And if so, with whom?
But if anyone has any doubt on LW now would be a really good time to share it.
Also if anyone really wants I can talk about what I was looking for in Axel. But if no-one cares because he's dead then I'd rather keep it in my pocket for next time I need to read him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Solving this game has been harder than my champs game 2 years ago, I wonder why...
this is rhetorical, I know why
@Eco
I am pretty sure I used up my, "Voting in a PoE of people that aren't townie enough, but aren't wolfy", on Dota
someone would really need to sell me on voting your slot, at least with the current info I got
and then we have killjoy who committed tons of sins, grapefruit is had a gross EoD day 1 but probably in his town!meta, as well as his overall play is tons better than Killjoy, and Proph, who lets be honest, has exemptional veracity, if he is a wolf here, on a macro level he looks great, on a micro level, I am all but sure, many of us could point out lots of things we don't like, and me in particular, the person who hates all of his appealing to the thread/gamestate posts. I think that is a very simplistic way to explain everybody right now.
Solving this game has been harder than my champs game 2 years ago, I wonder why...
this is rhetorical, I know why
@Eco
I am pretty sure I used up my, "Voting in a PoE of people that aren't townie enough, but aren't wolfy", on Dota
someone would really need to sell me on voting your slot, at least with the current info I got
and then we have killjoy who committed tons of sins, grapefruit is had a gross EoD day 1 but probably in his town!meta, as well as his overall play is tons better than Killjoy, and Proph, who lets be honest, has exemptional veracity, if he is a wolf here, on a macro level he looks great, on a micro level, I am all but sure, many of us could point out lots of things we don't like, and me in particular, the person who hates all of his appealing to the thread/gamestate posts. I think that is a very simplistic way to explain everybody right now.
veracity was definitely the wrong word here, think of a big brain synonym for energy
also wolf!Proph can't call me a wolf here, so that's kinda fun lol
The short answer is he's been generally townie with town responses. The longer answer is being written up in a post that I'm putting together during sparce moments of free time.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Solving this game has been harder than my champs game 2 years ago, I wonder why...
this is rhetorical, I know why
@Eco
I am pretty sure I used up my, "Voting in a PoE of people that aren't townie enough, but aren't wolfy", on Dota
someone would really need to sell me on voting your slot, at least with the current info I got
and then we have killjoy who committed tons of sins, grapefruit is had a gross EoD day 1 but probably in his town!meta, as well as his overall play is tons better than Killjoy, and Proph, who lets be honest, has exemptional veracity, if he is a wolf here, on a macro level he looks great, on a micro level, I am all but sure, many of us could point out lots of things we don't like, and me in particular, the person who hates all of his appealing to the thread/gamestate posts. I think that is a very simplistic way to explain everybody right now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Solving this game has been harder than my champs game 2 years ago, I wonder why...
this is rhetorical, I know why
@Eco
I am pretty sure I used up my, "Voting in a PoE of people that aren't townie enough, but aren't wolfy", on Dota
someone would really need to sell me on voting your slot, at least with the current info I got
and then we have killjoy who committed tons of sins, grapefruit is had a gross EoD day 1 but probably in his town!meta, as well as his overall play is tons better than Killjoy, and Proph, who lets be honest, has exemptional veracity, if he is a wolf here, on a macro level he looks great, on a micro level, I am all but sure, many of us could point out lots of things we don't like, and me in particular, the person who hates all of his appealing to the thread/gamestate posts. I think that is a very simplistic way to explain everybody right now.
What makes grape "tons better" than me?
he isn't committing tons of sins, and I can understand his progression on Cross. which I can align with, as well as you. His meta also helps him way more than your meta is helping you.
The short answer is he's been generally townie with town responses. The longer answer is being written up in a post that I'm putting together during sparce moments of free time.
I really can't understand you, he wasn't generally townie for you, I mean you have always believed a wolf was in the top posters, and at one point you liked me because of some posts, and then towards the end of yesterday, you thought Proph was soldier, but that was up until you liked his reaction to you. So where does any of that translate to, "he has been generally townie?"
The first is unlikely because a) LW is the town read I am most comfortable with
Talk to me about this? From your earlier progression, it seemed like you were more convinced that Wisp was town when I linked you the Throne of Lies game. However, when Grape linked you the Tarot Mafia game, you saw that he did more of his town-meta things, and as a result you became a little more hesitant. Yet, Today you are now saying that Wisp is now your top town read, when I believe that I was your top town read Yesterday. Talk to me a little about your progression here?
Quote from Wisp »
also wolf!Proph can't call me a wolf here, so that's kinda fun lol
Why can't wolf me call you a wolf? Explain this a little more?
Quote from Killjoy »
The short answer is he's been generally townie with town responses. The longer answer is being written up in a post that I'm putting together during sparce moments of free time.
Looking forward to this longer answer, as "generally townie with town responses" is tautological reasoning.
Wisp's line of questioning is good here so I'll refrain from interfering.
----
I'll start the rereading process today. Deadline is in... five days, so I'll try to get done with all of my analysis by hopefully Wednesday/Thursday.
@Proph
Well voting doesn't necessarily make sense in lylo, but it translates to, from my perspective, "If Proph thinks I am one of the wolves, then I'm never rescending a wolf read on him"
Talk to me about this? From your earlier progression, it seemed like you were more convinced that Wisp was town when I linked you the Throne of Lies game. However, when Grape linked you the Tarot Mafia game, you saw that he did more of his town-meta things, and as a result you became a little more hesitant. Yet, Today you are now saying that Wisp is now your top town read, when I believe that I was your top town read Yesterday. Talk to me a little about your progression here?
Reading Tarot did downgrade the read from "slam dunk", and yeah I'd like to hear from You/Grape about what you guys think of Tarot, but LW has been doing more of the town meta things than not. Like I said in my initial meta-dive if LW is scum emulating his town game, he's doing so in the most difficult way possible by posting more, throwing his vote around, and being less filtered.
But it's not like I've actually lost my town read on you - I really do struggle to see the scum motivation behind most of your key actions. It's just a) LW is a read I've put effort into recently so it's easier for me to treat is my #1 prior and b) if I rule you both out then the team has to exactly be KJ/GF. I'm not wild about just shrug-executing the PoE without due diligence and with the levels of content you're the easiest person to read.
Well voting doesn't necessarily make sense in lylo, but it translates to, from my perspective, "If Proph thinks I am one of the wolves, then I'm never rescending a wolf read on him"
Fair, okay.
Don't think this changes my approach with you bc I plan on resetting all of my reads to ground zero then rereading (which is why I'm being intentionally cagey atm) but good to know.
Talk to me about this? From your earlier progression, it seemed like you were more convinced that Wisp was town when I linked you the Throne of Lies game. However, when Grape linked you the Tarot Mafia game, you saw that he did more of his town-meta things, and as a result you became a little more hesitant. Yet, Today you are now saying that Wisp is now your top town read, when I believe that I was your top town read Yesterday. Talk to me a little about your progression here?
Reading Tarot did downgrade the read from "slam dunk", and yeah I'd like to hear from You/Grape about what you guys think of Tarot, but LW has been doing more of the town meta things than not. Like I said in my initial meta-dive if LW is scum emulating his town game, he's doing so in the most difficult way possible by posting more, throwing his vote around, and being less filtered.
But it's not like I've actually lost my town read on you - I really do struggle to see the scum motivation behind most of your key actions. It's just a) LW is a read I've put effort into recently so it's easier for me to treat is my #1 prior and b) if I rule you both out then the team has to exactly be KJ/GF. I'm not wild about just shrug-executing the PoE without due diligence and with the levels of content you're the easiest person to read.
Okay, I can buy that you putting recent effort into your LW read would make him no. 1. I was just wondering if by perchance the flip would cause you to re-evaluate.
I have kind of a difficult time seeing the team as KJ/GF given how Grape pushed for KJ to be the lunch at EoD yesterday.
Okay, I can buy that you putting recent effort into your LW read would make him no. 1. I was just wondering if by perchance the flip would cause you to re-evaluate.
I have kind of a difficult time seeing the team as KJ/GF given how Grape pushed for KJ to be the lunch at EoD yesterday.
Do you think I'm mafia or not?
The flip is the main thing making me nervous about you - you spent the whole Day talking about a DoTA/Eco team, and I know (now) that that's two townies. To your credit you haven't gunned straight for me toDay, but scum-Proph probably knows that's high risk anyway.
I think KJ/GF interaction could make sense as buddies - GF is expecting to be ignored, but if KJ does go down then that gives GF a great opening to push for Proph as the game-winning execute. The big question is if they are really playing coherently enough as a team to do that sort of thing.
Right now? I don't think you're Mafia. But I also don't strongly think both the others are either, and someone has to be. At least your ISO has enough content that the reread should result in a more confident conclusion.
The flip is the main thing making me nervous about you - you spent the whole Day talking about a DoTA/Eco team, and I know (now) that that's two townies. To your credit you haven't gunned straight for me toDay, but scum-Proph probably knows that's high risk anyway.
I hate to bring this up as a line of defense/argumentation, but Axelrod had a similar PoE as me and he got NK'd. He was also, I think, more of an advocate for seeing you dead Yesterday than I was. Do you think that scum me is having the best game of his life, or we were just all collectively wrong on KJ/Grape Yesterday?
Quote from Ecophagy »
Right now? I don't think you're Mafia. But I also don't strongly think both the others are either, and someone has to be. At least your ISO has enough content that the reread should result in a more confident conclusion.
my original thought was Killjoy/You again
but thinking back at how killjoy interacted with you at EoD, I really don't believe that to actually be a thing
and IDK how to put it in words, other than I just don't think that is how to wolves interact with each other.
Fine with doing real-time, but I won't be penciling in anyone as town or scum yet until my full thread reread + individual ISOs on people are complete.
I have a pet scumteam, but I don't want that to derail/bias me until I've fully re-comprehended the gamestate.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Proph
I still don't think I can answer that question yet,, but I will continue to work with you, figuring out your alignment will probably be an F3 problem if we even get there
I take full responsibility for the DoTA mislunch, and it's on me if we lose this game.
It's just like, dude - if you're town there, you have to give me /something/. Passionless notes dumping, a vote on KJ, and then peacing out was very difficult to work with. I'm sorry DoTA.
Honestly just couldn't believe DoTA flipped town. Spent that last hour or so just refreshing my phone waiting for Highroller to post the flip, and then saw blue and that kinda ruined my night
I had some doubts (like when he brought up the fact that why he would kill DV if DV was the only person defending him, him citing his IRL business a lot, his self-referencing as town and how all of his posts were wholly /fine/) but I couldn't get past the fact that he was tunnelled on GJ Day 1 and just.. didn't show any emotion about being wrong, or had any attempt to re-evaluate Day 2. He just felt like a robot and I thought that mindset was strongly wolf indicative.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.......
For the record I'm not sure what else I'd expect out of a time poor player than emotionless note dumping and voting into the PoE to try and save oneself. In fact I seem to remember someone else garnering town reads for that (though I did have more of a track record to back that up).
Look, I'm pretty tunnelled here. The only townie townie voting record thing I can point to on Proph was his effort to save GJ at the EoD but I happen to have insight that his CFD attempt was onto town and had it been successful it's extremely unlikely GJ would have been able to leave the PoE. He spent yesterday zero'd in on Dota from pretty much the start of day. And while there was cursory looks into other people his push on Dota never wavered. Proph historically has been even more prone to reevaluations than I am but that never really happened in a serious way here. Look at 1045 for example. He ISO's Dota first on the basis that he's been the main focus of the day. Dota has only been the main focus because of Proph. The only real negative post he cites is that he referred to GJ as providing the most information when he voted him again at EoD1, outside that it has some mildly positive reactions to the posts themselves particularly saying "I can see the progression on KJ". In 1046 he basically says that it's down to lack of content because he had a generally positive vibe from Dota.
In 1054 we have his PBPA on KJ. And to summarize a very long post Proph finishes with:
Gaaaaaaaaaah
i have no idea what is going on inside killjoy's brain
Which I'd say is much more negative than his overall Dota reaction but his very next post he states he's still on Dota and KJ is "town with heavy reservations".
Like the whole way through he's locked on Dota over KJ despite his words suggesting he should at least be equally interested, if not more interested in KJ. See for example: 1078, 1079, and 1084.
His over the top disbelief this SoD doesn't really match with his described read of Dota at all. In his wall and after he talks about how Dota is sort of fine but there isn't much there. How does that turn into "couldn't believe that Dota flipped town"? Each individual part is mostly fine but when you add this all up it pretty clearly indicates Proph's agenda here. He was just trying to get KJ through yesterday and then reevaluate the game toDay in F5. I'm not voting yet but the scum team is almost certainly KJ/Proph and I won't be voting anywhere else today. Definitely prefer Proph first but I'm pretty convinced at this point.
So are u gunna bring that point home? Or am I not going to see you again for another 3 days?
I'll be around. I feel like the case is pretty much made wrt Proph but I'll be adding to it. The KJ side has work to do because it's largely based on Porph's own behavior not KJ's. You started off toDay Proph was out of your PoE and I was in it, that was a flip from yesterday, what changed your mind?
KJ has expressed more emotion than DoTA, and I found some of his micro to be townie, which is why I have heavy reservations on him. I think his macro by and large has been poor. In addition, I was relying heavily on Axel's stated townread on KJ, which is why I did not want to lunch him Yesterday.
Meanwhile DoTA literally did not do anything Yesterday and sounded like a robot. I would have expected him to at least acknowledge that he was wrong on GJ, or say some thing to defend himself, but he did not do that. He dropped a passionless case on KJ, similar to how he treated GJ, and then peaced out from the thread. I thought that was strong wolf behavior.
I'm not voting Proph, that's an F3 problem, call me lazy, or call me hedgy, I don't care
My job will to best of my ability, will to try to find his alignment today
Imagine calling the wolf team Proph/kj and telling me KJ is a wolf because of Proph, as if you can't tell me things that make KJ look terrible.
Their are tons of reasons to call killjoy a wolf that have nothing to do with Proph
It's not really lazy or hedgy as far as I can tell. It's you have a outside of game bias that makes you not want to vote Proph. Which like fair enough. Proph is great but just waving him off till F3 when you're in F5 because you don't want to have to make that call is odd.
And my point about the Proph/KJ team isn't that KJ is looking clean (look at his two posts I quoted for example) it's that I am convinced most strongly that Proph is scum and I am approaching the game from that point of view. In an ideal world we'd be voting him today but based upon the posts from before I checked in no one except me is actually willing to go there. If I can't get traction on Proph then I'll start making the proactive case on KJ but that is not my preference toDay.
Also was 1148 directed at me? If so how was my alignment related to Dota's? Or is it just a PoE thing? Also if it was why on earth would a Dota scum flip have kept me out of the PoE when I was defending Dota at EoD? I can't fathom his flipping scum having kept or improved my status as town for you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
With the verdict reached, the remaining members of the Power Nine surrounded Timetwister.
“Timetwister, you have been condemned to die by a jury of your peers. Have you anything left to say?”
"You really think you can defeat me? I'm a master of time!"
"Yeah, enough posturing, let's go!"
A brutal fight ensues, but as the dust settles, TImetwister lies dead.
"Yes! We did it!"
Suddenly, a blinding flash of light engulfs everyone. Timetwister stands, completely unharmed.
"Oh damn it! He's rewinding time!"
"That's right!"
"Kill him again then!"
The Power Nine, now six, attack Timetwister with everything they have. Each time, Timetwister reforms. Thousands and thousands of times, Timetwister dies, only to return again.
"It's no use! I am invincible! You cannot destroy me!"
"What do we do now?"
"I have a plan! Extract his spirit!"
Surrounding him, the Power Nine proceed to syphon Timetwister's soul out of his body.
"Where do we put it?"
"Into this ring!"
Extracting Timetwister's essence, the remaining six place it within a golden ring.
"Now quick, cast it into the hottest part of the fire!"
In a dramatic moment, the six throw the ring into the volcano. It melts, destroying Timetwister's essence entirely.
"We did it!"
"Wait, what's happening?"
At the point where the ring melts, the lava begins to cool. A chain reaction forms, as the entire volcano planet's lava begins to cool to stone.
"Now that he's destroyed, the entire volcano plane is collapsing!"
"How does that even work? Why would he make the entire land collapse?
"Who cares?! We have to get out of here!"
The Power Nine flee as the entire volcano planet collapses behind them.
DOTArchon is dead. He was TOWN.
Night will last for 48 hours. Day will begin on July 17!
"Did you feel that?"
"Yes. Do we know what it was?"
"I believe it was Mox Emerald."
It was then that the Power Nine - now the Power Five - looked about them to notice yet another of their number was missing.
As a human may flip through a book, so did the five scan through the past to find Mox Emerald's fate.
"He never made it. He was intercepted."
"And so he fled through the multiverse, to a place his pursuers would never find."
"So they didn't try to look. They destroyed any other plane he could have gone to."
"Leaving no other ground but this one."
"They destroyed every single plane except Dominaria."
"Then this is the ground upon which we make our final stand."
"That's fine. Oversaturating our senses with red mana in an attempt to even the playing field proved fruitless. If we are to die, let us die in our own element."
"Let's make the sun rise and begin the vote..."
AXELROD IS DEAD. He was TOWN.
With 5 remaining, it is 3 for majority lynch.
DAY ON!
Deadline will be 10:30 PM EST ON JULY 24!
It's just like, dude - if you're town there, you have to give me /something/. Passionless notes dumping, a vote on KJ, and then peacing out was very difficult to work with. I'm sorry DoTA.
Do not vote early
Do not vote early
Do not vote early
We will be approaching this lylo the /correct/ way, which is constant rereading, analysis, and arguing with each other over who the three villagers are, and who the two scum are. We will only vote in the last 24 or so hours, once we've hopefully agreed on a gamesolve. If I see any early votes, that will be treated as a scumclaim. If I wake up to find myself or someone else quickhammered, there will be /words/ postgame.
Gonna try to do a hard reads reset and approach the game with the knowledge that four townies have flipped, since that is the only real information we have to work off of.
Still not really interested in Proph at the moment. But I will do my due diligence either way
I had some doubts (like when he brought up the fact that why he would kill DV if DV was the only person defending him, him citing his IRL business a lot, his self-referencing as town and how all of his posts were wholly /fine/) but I couldn't get past the fact that he was tunnelled on GJ Day 1 and just.. didn't show any emotion about being wrong, or had any attempt to re-evaluate Day 2. He just felt like a robot and I thought that mindset was strongly wolf indicative.
and if you are busy enough that it effects your ability to play, then do yourself and us a favor. The lack of emotion was super hard to read from a town perspective.
I really wish you would stop making these kinda of posts, the genuinity of these posts does not exist for me. I know why town you would say it, and I know why would you would say, but man. Your emotions have been the saving grace of your slot at certain points, and I really need to give you a good reread.
Thread direction, allowed us to both be alive today, regardless of our alignments, which given how everyone treated Axel outside Killjoy, I kinda new this was gunna happen, even still, I was really hoping I died coming in to today
I also don't understand why you feel like you need to go out of your way, to justify the mistake? There is nothing I hate more than looking back at all the tiniest things that could have made you believe he was town, because one, most of us, including u, were looking at what made everyone else townier. So talking about all the things you "think" you should have accounted for, means very little to me.
lets see how long it takes for everyone to enter the thread
Will be around more tonight.
Fundamentally, there are now three possible worlds:
- The team is exactly Proph and LW
- The team is exactly Grape and KJ
- The team is split between those two groups
The first is unlikely because a) LW is the town read I am most comfortable with and b) the way Proph and LW have interacted and read each other throughout the game would be an unreal and unecessary amount of scum theatre, especially after reading the game where they were buddies where they acted much more simply and tactically.
Given that KJ and Grape don't look great but also not that scummy, the second world is not only possible but realistically more likely since Proph was at leasta town read which is harder than either KJ or GF managed, but I am nervous about sticking with the same PoE which hasn't worked out so far. Because of my read on LW, the last world only works with Proph + KJ/GF. So not really that many options.
So the key questions for my due diligence now are: is Proph scum? And if so, with whom?
But if anyone has any doubt on LW now would be a really good time to share it.
Grape/Proph/Wisp/Eco.
I continue to think Proph isn't scum.
Grape/Wisp/Eco.
I'll look into that.
this is rhetorical, I know why
@Eco
I am pretty sure I used up my, "Voting in a PoE of people that aren't townie enough, but aren't wolfy", on Dota
someone would really need to sell me on voting your slot, at least with the current info I got
and then we have killjoy who committed tons of sins, grapefruit is had a gross EoD day 1 but probably in his town!meta, as well as his overall play is tons better than Killjoy, and Proph, who lets be honest, has exemptional veracity, if he is a wolf here, on a macro level he looks great, on a micro level, I am all but sure, many of us could point out lots of things we don't like, and me in particular, the person who hates all of his appealing to the thread/gamestate posts. I think that is a very simplistic way to explain everybody right now.
also wolf!Proph can't call me a wolf here, so that's kinda fun lol
would love to hear from grape since he's the only one not checked in
Why can't wolf me call you a wolf? Explain this a little more?
Looking forward to this longer answer, as "generally townie with town responses" is tautological reasoning.
Wisp's line of questioning is good here so I'll refrain from interfering.
----
I'll start the rereading process today. Deadline is in... five days, so I'll try to get done with all of my analysis by hopefully Wednesday/Thursday.
Well voting doesn't necessarily make sense in lylo, but it translates to, from my perspective, "If Proph thinks I am one of the wolves, then I'm never rescending a wolf read on him"
Reading Tarot did downgrade the read from "slam dunk", and yeah I'd like to hear from You/Grape about what you guys think of Tarot, but LW has been doing more of the town meta things than not. Like I said in my initial meta-dive if LW is scum emulating his town game, he's doing so in the most difficult way possible by posting more, throwing his vote around, and being less filtered.
But it's not like I've actually lost my town read on you - I really do struggle to see the scum motivation behind most of your key actions. It's just a) LW is a read I've put effort into recently so it's easier for me to treat is my #1 prior and b) if I rule you both out then the team has to exactly be KJ/GF. I'm not wild about just shrug-executing the PoE without due diligence and with the levels of content you're the easiest person to read.
Don't think this changes my approach with you bc I plan on resetting all of my reads to ground zero then rereading (which is why I'm being intentionally cagey atm) but good to know.
Okay, I can buy that you putting recent effort into your LW read would make him no. 1. I was just wondering if by perchance the flip would cause you to re-evaluate.
I have kind of a difficult time seeing the team as KJ/GF given how Grape pushed for KJ to be the lunch at EoD yesterday.
Do you think I'm mafia or not?
The flip is the main thing making me nervous about you - you spent the whole Day talking about a DoTA/Eco team, and I know (now) that that's two townies. To your credit you haven't gunned straight for me toDay, but scum-Proph probably knows that's high risk anyway.
I think KJ/GF interaction could make sense as buddies - GF is expecting to be ignored, but if KJ does go down then that gives GF a great opening to push for Proph as the game-winning execute. The big question is if they are really playing coherently enough as a team to do that sort of thing.
Right now? I don't think you're Mafia. But I also don't strongly think both the others are either, and someone has to be. At least your ISO has enough content that the reread should result in a more confident conclusion.
I'm looking forward to this.
but thinking back at how killjoy interacted with you at EoD, I really don't believe that to actually be a thing
and IDK how to put it in words, other than I just don't think that is how to wolves interact with each other.
Fine with doing real-time, but I won't be penciling in anyone as town or scum yet until my full thread reread + individual ISOs on people are complete.
I have a pet scumteam, but I don't want that to derail/bias me until I've fully re-comprehended the gamestate.
It would pretty much mean the scum team is exactly you/Wisp but IDK if I could prove that theory at all.
@Proph
I still don't think I can answer that question yet,, but I will continue to work with you, figuring out your alignment will probably be an F3 problem if we even get there
Hmmmmmmmmmm.......
For the record I'm not sure what else I'd expect out of a time poor player than emotionless note dumping and voting into the PoE to try and save oneself. In fact I seem to remember someone else garnering town reads for that (though I did have more of a track record to back that up).
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........
Look, I'm pretty tunnelled here. The only townie townie voting record thing I can point to on Proph was his effort to save GJ at the EoD but I happen to have insight that his CFD attempt was onto town and had it been successful it's extremely unlikely GJ would have been able to leave the PoE. He spent yesterday zero'd in on Dota from pretty much the start of day. And while there was cursory looks into other people his push on Dota never wavered. Proph historically has been even more prone to reevaluations than I am but that never really happened in a serious way here. Look at 1045 for example. He ISO's Dota first on the basis that he's been the main focus of the day. Dota has only been the main focus because of Proph. The only real negative post he cites is that he referred to GJ as providing the most information when he voted him again at EoD1, outside that it has some mildly positive reactions to the posts themselves particularly saying "I can see the progression on KJ". In 1046 he basically says that it's down to lack of content because he had a generally positive vibe from Dota.
In 1054 we have his PBPA on KJ. And to summarize a very long post Proph finishes with:
Which I'd say is much more negative than his overall Dota reaction but his very next post he states he's still on Dota and KJ is "town with heavy reservations".
Like the whole way through he's locked on Dota over KJ despite his words suggesting he should at least be equally interested, if not more interested in KJ. See for example: 1078, 1079, and 1084.
His over the top disbelief this SoD doesn't really match with his described read of Dota at all. In his wall and after he talks about how Dota is sort of fine but there isn't much there. How does that turn into "couldn't believe that Dota flipped town"? Each individual part is mostly fine but when you add this all up it pretty clearly indicates Proph's agenda here. He was just trying to get KJ through yesterday and then reevaluate the game toDay in F5. I'm not voting yet but the scum team is almost certainly KJ/Proph and I won't be voting anywhere else today. Definitely prefer Proph first but I'm pretty convinced at this point.
I'll be around. I feel like the case is pretty much made wrt Proph but I'll be adding to it. The KJ side has work to do because it's largely based on Porph's own behavior not KJ's. You started off toDay Proph was out of your PoE and I was in it, that was a flip from yesterday, what changed your mind?
My job will to best of my ability, will to try to find his alignment today
Imagine calling the wolf team Proph/kj and telling me KJ is a wolf because of Proph, as if you can't tell me things that make KJ look terrible.
Their are tons of reasons to call killjoy a wolf that have nothing to do with Proph
Meanwhile DoTA literally did not do anything Yesterday and sounded like a robot. I would have expected him to at least acknowledge that he was wrong on GJ, or say some thing to defend himself, but he did not do that. He dropped a passionless case on KJ, similar to how he treated GJ, and then peaced out from the thread. I thought that was strong wolf behavior.
It's not really lazy or hedgy as far as I can tell. It's you have a outside of game bias that makes you not want to vote Proph. Which like fair enough. Proph is great but just waving him off till F3 when you're in F5 because you don't want to have to make that call is odd.
And my point about the Proph/KJ team isn't that KJ is looking clean (look at his two posts I quoted for example) it's that I am convinced most strongly that Proph is scum and I am approaching the game from that point of view. In an ideal world we'd be voting him today but based upon the posts from before I checked in no one except me is actually willing to go there. If I can't get traction on Proph then I'll start making the proactive case on KJ but that is not my preference toDay.
Also was 1148 directed at me? If so how was my alignment related to Dota's? Or is it just a PoE thing? Also if it was why on earth would a Dota scum flip have kept me out of the PoE when I was defending Dota at EoD? I can't fathom his flipping scum having kept or improved my status as town for you.