But yeah, you're literally just not reading the game correctly.
I think Grape is scum because I think Osie/GJ is town. If I assume that, then he is the most likely player out of the four people who were on Osie (DV/Grape/Axel/DoTA) to be pushing him with a dishonest mindset. His push/vote on me is also extremely agenda based. He's trying to chain a mislunch on me into a mislunch on the Osie slot with this post:
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
That's fair. I still think the slot has a decent chance to be scum. Less than I did before I knew the cross was Osie but still not zero. Especially since GJ's not scum with Proph and Proph's wall was howling.
Also define Agenda based.
What does that word even mean?
Mafia have an agenda - a plan they want to work towards to reach their desired gamestate, which in most cases is lylo. Townies want to solve the game and lunch scum - they don't have any sort of pre-defined plan, they just want to see the people they're scumreading flip red.
I think Grapefruit's play is heavily agenda-based, and is focused around the idea of mislunching me and Osie/GJ so that the game reaches five man lylo with four flipped townies and no flipped scum.
Dear god who taught you how to create an argument?
You need to quote some Grape posts and explain how they are agenda driven. Saying that they are doesn't make them so.
Also, I'm going to ask you for the 3rd time now. How is Osie's behavior of dismissing/discrediting others different than those that you have scum read for the same thing?
DV I'll get to you, give me a couple of hours for me and the thread to cool off first.
If you could quote the posts where Osie was discrediting others, then that'd be appreciated. I know he did it to Wisp early game, but I'm working mostly off memory here.
DV - might still be a wolf, but I am mind-melding with his thought process, I think he is decent enough at pushing an agenda, but I don't think this is how he approaches it as a wolf. Overall I think he is veeeeery likely to be town
Axel - gets to be below DV for claiming to be town in his post, I like those things, fight me.
Grape - might be pocketing me, but I like his posts overall
Everyone else - don't really care yet?
Ehh? This isn't much of a thought process and doesn't assuage any of the teams with you on them. Hmph.
Proph - I'm not even thinking about his meta, I think its an unfun way to interact with Proph. I do very much dislike his handling of me, and pieces of that wall post, that include calling me out for not placing my vote, when that statement was should not have really led to that conclusion, unless you are trying to push malicious thoughts? He definitely needs to like blow me away today, for me to change this, possibly?
Crossbell - Something, something, about straddling the line of like knowing who we are, but also playing like he doesn't know who we are, kinda rubs me the wrong way. I think Grape explains it a lot better
24 hours in, but I would be baffled if there is not a wolf between proph and fake proph.
Feels like I hate all the people that hate me, guess that's how the cookie crumbles
I don't hate you. I love you!
In all seriousness, I have too many scumleans right now and you're not even in the bottom two.
Anyways Crossbell is trying way to hard to sort people off of really minor things IMO, it reads as scummy to me because its agenda driven when it is this weak, town shouldn't be pushing like this early on.
And scum wants the early attention that forcing a readlist in the first 100 posts gives... why?
To call my very casual defense of wisp as a "hard defense" is such a massive mischaracterization I don't see how it can come from a town mind. Confirm vote I feel comfortable with this.
Ehhhhh it's a defense. You're OMGUS voting for Wisp, essentially. It is what it is. You're reading too far into the word "hard".
I see where Crossbell is coming from wrt Axel but again, I still want to take the "wait and see" approach, given what I know about Axel's meta. My misgivings on Wisp are also based on tone.
Yeah, Wisp is missing that je ne sais quoi, hence no core yet, but I'm not yet convinced that they're not just self-restraining out of positive motives. Iff they start sorting, there exists tonal verisimilitude that does not present through their wolf game lol.
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
Really? I thought it would make more sense to make something up about your mother and father.
I mean, make something up about your mouthy blather. Sorry about that.
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Sure, but I'm not that predictable, lmao.
I mean there is really only two ways to play scum.
You either lock in reads and don't shift.
Or you waffle hard and leave every possible out you can to jump onto a wagon.
Yes you can color in between, but its really one of these two extremes. You can't outplay this inevitability.
Meh?
Also, would you say this applies to any alignment? Also calling my reads weak is a pretty surface-level attack. I might even call it a "weak read."
Also if you're scum and talked me out of me tunneling you, then well done.
I think this post (among others) would be.. a little harder to post/enter your brain as something worthy of posting if you were a wolf, while if you're town then this is a pretty natural thought to have.
Quote from Wisp »
man i dont want proph to be a wolf
his luck on this site would be so devastating if that was the case again
I wanna give him a chance
I hope I'm right lmao and I'm not about to get MEGA SNOWED
don't bother with these kinds of posts, I ignore them
Don't bother with these kinds of posts, I ignore them.
So after I pointed out that Cross was scumreading Axel without having any interactions with each other, they've now got a series of posts that still don't go anywhere towards moving the game forward. And Cross has moved their vote to me.
I have pointed out that part of my issue with Axel is that they haven't been doing enough to progress the game. But given that you two are likely teammates, I'm not surprised that you're trying to handwave my actual read on Axel.
Pretty sure Cross is at L-1, so we should be careful with our votes.
Quote from Killjoy »
When I'm reading your posts, I see a lot of myself in them. Old me who asked a lot of questions that perhaps I didn't think about in too much depth first. It's unlike you.
I'll shoot you a question then - when was the last time you have played with town Prophylaxis? Can't imagine any meta on me would very useful given that my last town game on MTGS was literally five years ago, if I remember correctly.
I'm reasonably confident that there are two scum in those 4 btw. Based on how worthless 99% of the reads on me have been, I think I've managed successfully to draw
both scum to voting my slot.
Recognizes Osie is saying OMGUS, goes IDK man, but doesn't say anything more than that.
Except it's not just OMGUS. I've been very conscious about my play this game and paid attention to how I'm drawing people onto my wagon. You handwaving it as OMGUS is a strawman to defend yourself.
Of course it's Osie, of course it is.
@Proph we have different definitions of LHF if u think Osie is that.
I would prefer not to be wrong on someone who is actually playing the game, but both Axel and DV have pointed out things not to like. And if this was town!Osie, I think he'd be more frustrated?
Really want to express how much I dislike Crossbell's posting.
Was a slight pressure vote now is an actual vote.
Like DV didn't even realize he wasn't voting me. Really absurd disengagement. I called out him for defending Wisp by chainsawing a vote and he quibbled about my wording instead of engaging with my read. And then he blusters about how I'm not engaging with a read which is clearly bogus and OMGUS from him? This is classic scum DV struggling to find a logical foothold to push town and jumping on what he sees as a LHF wagon alongside a buddy. Probably DoTA, maybe Grapefruit, much less likely Axel.
I work at the time of the current deadline so I would appreciate the extension. Also an extension would always help me out as I am town and want more discussion to occur. Intrinsically now, anybody who rejects the extension looks scummy which is a problem.
Really want to express how much I dislike Crossbell's posting.
Was a slight pressure vote now is an actual vote.
Like DV didn't even realize he wasn't voting me. Really absurd disengagement. I called out him for defending Wisp by chainsawing a vote and he quibbled about my wording instead of engaging with my read. And then he blusters about how I'm not engaging with a read which is clearly bogus and OMGUS from him? This is classic scum DV struggling to find a logical foothold to push town and jumping on what he sees as a LHF wagon alongside a buddy. Probably DoTA, maybe Grapefruit, much less likely Axel.
Jesus christ stop the adhoms and explain your reads.
There's no adhom in there. And unlike you, my reads have been explained in detail. If you have more specific questions then you can engage in questions rather than spewing yourself scum.
We got 3 people who play their own game in this topic
Grape, DV, and Osie to a lesser extent
so its somewhat useless to bother with trying to change their minds, until we get a dead body that either proves them right or makes them have to re-evaluate
Meh. I like usual have been trying to get others to play. I never really solo the game unless I feel there is no engagement from anyone. Part of why I think you, Cantrip, and Proph are town here is that you are engaging with other players in good faith.
on a more serious note, I really don't think its Osie anymore
but nobody cares what I think
and I'm also to fence-sitty to bother
as well as I can't explain things well anyways
Well, I also find Proph's conviction that Osie is Town to be well out of whack with what Osie actually put into the thread, but I'm not going down that rabbit hole right now.
Private Mod Note
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But yeah, you're literally just not reading the game correctly.
I think Grape is scum because I think Osie/GJ is town. If I assume that, then he is the most likely player out of the four people who were on Osie (DV/Grape/Axel/DoTA) to be pushing him with a dishonest mindset. His push/vote on me is also extremely agenda based. He's trying to chain a mislunch on me into a mislunch on the Osie slot with this post:
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
That's fair. I still think the slot has a decent chance to be scum. Less than I did before I knew the cross was Osie but still not zero. Especially since GJ's not scum with Proph and Proph's wall was howling.
My scumread on DV boils down to a couple of things:
1) Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, his feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
2) I feel like his posts have been kind of narrow? Like he doesn't show much insight into his thought process for his townreads, and he went from post 223 to 327 without really catching up.
3) PoE. Think if Crossbell is town, there's likely at least scum on his wagon. I like Grape atm, and DoTA may be town. We'll see on Axel after he completes his catchup.
I have to say that I do like this post from DV though. It's self meta, but it reads as somewhat genuine.
Quote from DV »
This is a severe misunderstanding of my scum rage game play. Typically as scum I argue about pendantic ***** to appear playing the game and then get annoyed by players ignoring my correct statements.
Its likely hard for players to seperate that from my town game play, because my town play focused on specific things but for me it was always with a purpose. Maybe not a purpose that other players understood, but a purpose none the less. Largely my town reads/gameplay in the last 5(? more maybe) years hyper evolved into me taking an active role to get players to respond to me to see these specific things/meta reads and that turned into me largely bullying people/becoming more toxic as I took the game too seriously.
My scum games I'd just get mad because people would say that something I did was a scum tell or something really dumb and then I'd just use that as a cover for my aimlessness which is in my opinion always been my biggest scum tell. Really though what I'm trying to get across is that it wasn't fake, it was always anger misplaced as it may have been.
So here's my explanation as to why I think Osie is town. Keep in mind that I'm like.. 70% confident on this - I've interacted with Osie a lot, but it's rare for us to be in any games together. As a result, I don't have a great framework for what his scumrange is. Hence why people (namely Wisp) have gotten the impression that I'm sort of wishy-washy on me defending him - I just don't want to be /wrong/. I like to think that one of my strengths is identifying and preventing the mislunch of low-hanging fruit players, but I'm just consistently terrified of being wrong and being a virtual asset to the scum team, hence the second-guessing. Here goes though:
First off, I had kind of a null-slightly negative impression of Osie's posts. He was playing intentionally curt, which is something I've seen from Osie in the past (he likes to give strong reads with little explanation of his mindset or how he got that way), which is why I asked him to clarify/expand on his reasoning in #71.
Then he posts his #98 read wall, which was just way too early for something like that. I skimmed through the wall without fully digesting it, and my first gut impression was also negative. But given that Osie copied my avatar across an old site and was trying to roleplay/emulate my playstyle, I kind of accepted it as null since I know I have a habit of jumping the gun too early. This is what I said at the time:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I'll look at/respond to Cross's wall in the morning. Preliminary thoughts are that the wall feels like it's trying to roleplay/emulate me, but I also find objectively speaking that posting a huge read wall when most players (Cantrip, KJ, DoTA, Axel) have not really sat down and played the game yet is.. not the best look?
I'm all for more discussion, but the wallpost feels intentionally played up - which is easily explained by the fact that the account holder behind the Crossbell alt is deliberately trying to emulate my posting style. Blegh.
I watched Osie interact with Wisp here (on page 3) and I also felt that they were trying to lean into the roleplay harder, with stuff like the Minamimoto image, the "lols" and "lmaos" at end of sentences, and off-the-cuff responses without punctuation (#113). I prodded with them about their Wisp progression and their response was fine.
I then went back on page 4 and actually took time to read and comprehend their wall on post 98 instead of just skimming it, and I did not find many major structural problems with the post. Yes, overeager, yes, deliberately trying to emulate my style, but I didn't think it came from a malicious mindset. Again, you can see me comprehend the post here:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I like how you charted your thought process behind your Wisp read; I have a different perspective on his first couple of posts but I'll get into that after I've finished catching up. I don't think Grape has done much of anything alignment indicative thus far - I'll try to sort him as the Day progresses.
I think DV is playing very intentionally curt, and I remember I could find him as town in past games by watching how he explains his thought process and mindset. So far, he's mostly tunneling me and you. I want him to hopefully disengage a bit and focus more on the other players OR talk to/engage with us since we both are pretty active posters at the moment.
IMO, you're jumping the gun with Axel, and I think his alignment should become clearer as Day 1 progresses. Not sure how this will manifest in this game, but the Axel I know isn't a huge Day 1 poster and generally locks things up more towards the mid/endgame. It's been a long while since he randed wolf, but I don't think his wolf game is of particular note? I'm pretty sure his last wolf game was Amistarian III, and his team kinda lurked until they lost. So unless he's wolfed offsite or something, or gotten better at wolfing since that game, I would wait and see WRT his alignment.
So I went into this wall expecting to critique a fair bit of Crossbell's process but I can sort of see where they're coming from. I'll take a look at their more recent big wallpost in a bit.
I keep interacting with Osie and I am using him sort of a sounding board to re-evaluate my own reads, like the one scumread I had on Wisp at the time:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Crossbell had a good point where him getting frustrated with dealing with both of us might point to him being town, though - but I still having a lot of concerns/misgivings about Wisp that I will hopefully get the chance to air out... right now.
Quote from Crossbell »
With 2 miselims and 2 scum, this is effectively a micro, my home turf. Solving the micros quickly and off of hard and fast worldbuilding is usually more effective than hoping you're going to get a ton of information out of two and a half day phases maximum, IMO.
I also bought this from him as an explanation as to why he was trying to read so hard into scraps.
Now I post my townread on Osie here:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
My sole townread at this point is Crossbell because 1) I think they're thinking about the game in a fairly nuanced fashion, 2) I think the early wagon on them was pushed in bad faith, and 3) sort by postcount become werewolf expert.
He was playing in a pretty disorganized fashion, but I could see how he was trying to work, talk, and engage with other players. His scumread on Axelrod based on his awkward opener made sense (even if I disagreed about pressuring him at the time), and it parallels what I saw with regards to Wisp. He was talking to Wisp and amped up the roleplay to see how he'd react, and came out of it from a null read to a townread of Wisp. He was trying to sort out his DoTA read here before eventually deciding to vote him with me:
Quote from Crossbell »
I kinda think that DoTA actually believes what he's saying despite having the tonal dissonance of a chromatic scale of tritones.
He kind of had lower activity at this point and then he replaced out, so yeah.
tl;dr - I just don't see the maliciousness. Osie was super over the top and hyperactive, but I think he has constant foot-in-mouth syndrome like me, and that was even more amplified because he chose to intentionally emulate my posting style. I feel like if he randed scum this game, he would have been a lot more reserved and play more by-the-book rather than ruffle people's feathers early.
A) Just to point out in this he says he used Osie as a sounding board for his Wisp read. Despite him saying that he came to that conclusion on his own.
I looked at some older games, reread Wisp's ISO, tried to put myself in his town shoes and... I no longer believe that he is scum. On the contrary, I think he is actually leaning town.
My bad.
B) He says Osie was disorganized, yet Osie claimed to have been hyper aware of everything he was posting. And that he was aware of all the interactions he was causing. And Osie said it was all going according to plan.
C) Proph seems to have ignored all of the bad people are seeing in Osie.
Anyyyyyyyyyyyyyyywayyyyyys I've decided im not voting Proph today, if anyone else wants to go that route, be my guest
While I think DV's points are sound, I am choosing to ignore them for the sake of the day 1 execution, I think proph's responses sound better than the actual cases he is trying to make, which I will not deny, have been "less townie"
Vote: Killjoy
I'm sheeping Proph here, I'm dying on this hill for the sake of day 1.
or dota, or grape
@GJ
Maybe I am projecting too much, expecting you to play a certain way. But I don't appreciate you telling me to just hammer you. I want to find you if you are town, and your slot has been one of my fenciest slots. So I am/was trying to solve you, especially give your train size.
Proph/Dota? Maybe? If it's not GJ
I don't appreciate the expectations being asked of me and the assumptions of me ghosting or not doing enough. We will have to call it even, won't we?
Quote from Axel »
Well, you kind of need to re-read the sequence here, since leaving the vote on you/Osie was exactly what I did, and no hemming or hawing was involved. I expressed a certain amount of irritation/frustration about Osie dropping out and being unable to cross-examine him, but not that.
And, dude, the "dazzling" thing is just saying that nothing you posted, in the few post you did make, screamed "Townie" to me. Which, they might have? It's happened before. There was no expectation there, however. It was not a demand that you dazzle me or else. It was an observation.
You were 100% hemming and hawing.
Replaced out? Really?
That just completely kneecaps everything I was doing. His total lack of engagement with me and hand-waving my issues was something he was going to have to address or get voted out. How is GJ supposed to address that?
and this? I was prepared to really get into the weeds on this remark. B/C on its face it seems like complete bull. How can I do that now?
/rant
Quote from
Still on my phone for the moment. I really feel like writing a quite lengthy dissertation on how scummy what Osie (ostensibly) was doing was. But I’m not sure if it is worth the words.
My other option seems to be pivoting to examine Proph and whether his completely unjustified faith in Osie could possibly be coming from a genuine Town mindset.
I'm doing July 4th stuff today. I'll try to have something more comprehensive to say tomorrow. I don't "think" I'm getting away from Crossbell/Osie though. GJ isn't dazzling me with his Towniness so far, and Osie was just pretty bad.
Quote from Bateleur »
That's you complaining since I got here about how unfair the replacement is, and how I magically didn't dazzle you in a short period of time. You were already voting for cross, did him magically saying something wolfier seemingly going by your context really bother you? Or were you more bothered at the fact that I might not have been the lynch for today?
I also still don't get how Proph gets any read, tmi or not, unless you are 100% on me flipping wolf. Like at some point, if he was trying for town credit on Cross, he would just eventually ring out his hands. Here, he has been loud from my interpretation.
Quote from Axel »
"Feels awkward" is, of course, an impossible standard to argue, in as much as he's supposedly giving his personal feeling about a post(s). I mean, I was not feeling awkward. I know this. I was trying to be humorous. What is "awkward" anyway? If he had tried to actually break this feeling down and explain what he believed to be awkward we might have been able to have a conversation there, but, he doesn't do that.
It's a more wordier way of saying bad tone. It hits the ear wrong. Or unnatural like your are being forced. What he meant specifically I don't know, but this isn't new mafia language.
I sped read through the rest, and lol dota.
I wasn't trying to push a dichotomy at all.
Would you tell us if you were?
here are more town players than scum players so T/T is not something that can ever be ruled out entirely except in very specific circumstances. But I was more inclined to believe it was either T/W or W/W, based on my belief that yours is a scumslot.
So you were just hedging on it then? What does that have to do with Axel then? Why do you need to specify what our interaction is, are you saying Axel is completely null if I flip wolf? What about axels posting towards me makes you even think out typing the w/w?
You list the order you want players eliminated if you're voted out, with Grape as your top read, in the same post accuse Axel of having an agenda, and then vote me seven posts later when I point out that I want you eliminated. With the amount of discussion your slot has generated your's would be the most informative flip for today, especially to me as you've been my top scum read for the majority of the day.
What does informative matter? Why isn't this just "I think GJ/Cross is the most likely to flip wolf? I seemingly do nothing for your read on Axel. Do you have proph as a wolf if I flip town or something, or are you with axel that proph is potentially my buddy.
Also, since you were on, you were tempted to hammer, were aware of what I asked, and didn't think to respond to it? This post looks so ridiculously planned, it will actually hurt a tiny bit if I git got.
Also you ingored the other half of his reason for the vote, but keep saying that you are not agenda based.
"X needs to go" or "X needs to be resolved" makes sense if we were dealing with some sort of mechanical dichotomy, but in a game like this then I think it's a lazy/scummy reason to justify your vote.
I'm fine with GJ talking/probing to Axel about Axel's stance on him, while voting DoTA for what seems to be a bad post. DoTA is still ultimately kind of null to me (he's had some good posts and some bad posts, he is going to be my top reread priority going into the Night). I tried to skim some of his games and ultimately he has kind of a consistent tone as either alignment; I'll see if I can do a more focused read-through on him sometime in the next 4 hours.
Also you ingored the other half of his reason for the vote, but keep saying that you are not agenda based.
"X needs to go" or "X needs to be resolved" makes sense if we were dealing with some sort of mechanical dichotomy, but in a game like this then I think it's a lazy/scummy reason to justify your vote.
I'm fine with GJ talking/probing to Axel about Axel's stance on him, while voting DoTA for what seems to be a bad post. DoTA is still ultimately kind of null to me (he's had some good posts and some bad posts, he is going to be my top reread priority going into the Night). I tried to skim some of his games and ultimately he has kind of a consistent tone as either alignment; I'll see if I can do a more focused read-through on him sometime in the next 4 hours.
Dota pretty much said he doesn't care what I flip. Osie/me had bad posts, and I am information.
I liked DoTA's posts 259, 306, and 437/438. On the other hand, I did not like his most recent post (where he justified his GJ vote). So DoTA is kind of a tossup for me. I would still rather flip in killjoy/Grape.
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
I liked DoTA's posts 259, 306, and 437/438. On the other hand, I did not like his most recent post (where he justified his GJ vote). So DoTA is kind of a tossup for me. I would still rather flip in killjoy/Grape.
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
Unvote, vote Grapefruit21
I mean Im still hung up on what wolf!Grape was thinking when he re-evaluated GJ's slot after he found out it was Osie, it just doesn't seem like a wolfy thing to do. I would like him to be more of a voice though, since he managed to destroy wolves in the game I was in with him, where I was a wolf, and here, he is just kinda average?
I liked DoTA's posts 259, 306, and 437/438. On the other hand, I did not like his most recent post (where he justified his GJ vote). So DoTA is kind of a tossup for me. I would still rather flip in killjoy/Grape.
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
Unvote, vote Grapefruit21
I mean Im still hung up on what wolf!Grape was thinking when he re-evaluated GJ's slot after he found out it was Osie, it just doesn't seem like a wolfy thing to do. I would like him to be more of a voice though, since he managed to destroy wolves in the game I was in with him, where I was a wolf, and here, he is just kinda average?
Kind of how I feel about KJ. It just doesn't wolfy make sense to hedge on probably the most polarizing player in the game.
I liked DoTA's posts 259, 306, and 437/438. On the other hand, I did not like his most recent post (where he justified his GJ vote). So DoTA is kind of a tossup for me. I would still rather flip in killjoy/Grape.
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
Unvote, vote Grapefruit21
I mean Im still hung up on what wolf!Grape was thinking when he re-evaluated GJ's slot after he found out it was Osie, it just doesn't seem like a wolfy thing to do. I would like him to be more of a voice though, since he managed to destroy wolves in the game I was in with him, where I was a wolf, and here, he is just kinda average?
Kind of how I feel about KJ. It just doesn't wolfy make sense to hedge on probably the most polarizing player in the game.
idk if I'd consider those the same, there is nothing townie about KJ just coming into late day 1 while you are the largest train for literally the entirety of the phase, with so many people talking about you, and he is like, "Yup null"
it might be townie for Killjoy from a meta standpoint, because its not uncommon for him to just be completely oblivious to the game state, and/or play his own game, but its certainly not townie if I pretend some rando said it.
DV is a death tunneler last I remember. Unless something wolfy (to him) slaps him across the face, he sticks to reads.
My point on KJ is nothing to do with meta. He is more than competent enough to know if he was a wolf, it makes sense to commit to a read. I think most people also recognize hedgeyness can be a sign of wolfiness. Especially on well read/polarizing, or heavy posters.
Proph how do you justify that you used Osie as a soundboard for the Wisp read, yet your entire Wisp read was realuvated based on your own reread of his meta?
I mean... Osie got to town Wisp before I did, and he did not agree with my interpretation of Wisp's first couple of posts. So he was kind of a soundboard in that aspect.
Am I not allowed to read people how I wish? This line of inquiry is bizarre.
Quote from DV »
Dear god who taught you how to create an argument?
Playing this goddamn game for over 10 years.
Quote from DV »
You need to quote some Grape posts and explain how they are agenda driven. Saying that they are doesn't make them so.
I think these posts are agenda-y to hell and back:
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
That's fair. I still think the slot has a decent chance to be scum. Less than I did before I knew the cross was Osie but still not zero. Especially since GJ's not scum with Proph and Proph's wall was howling.
He says that GJ has a decent chance to be scum.. but says that he's also not scum with me, and that I am "howling" (means that he is heavily scumreading me). I feel like Grape is trying to chain mislunches here - by going after me, then being able to point this as justification for re-voting GJ once I flip town.
Quote from Grapefruit »
That does nothing to explain why he thought Osie was town but it does justify Proph's actions. This isn't someone trying to enlighten the game, it's someone trying to protect themselves from blowback. The TLDR provides a postitive case for Osie but it's also a weak case that doesn't really justify the strength proph was posting with or the repeated delays in explaining it. Activity, TWTBAW, and roleplay isn't this indepth case that is hard to explain. This definitely feels like covering tracks and retroactive justification more than it feels like a natural town case.
Grapefruit is trying to case me off of defending myself from blowback, but what I was writing out was an in-depth explanation of my mindset of my read on Osie throughout the early game. I think him twisting my mindset explanation into an attack on me is wolfy and agenda-based - especially as he positioned himself to jump off on Osie.
Also, I'm going to ask you for the 3rd time now. How is Osie's behavior of dismissing/discrediting others different than those that you have scum read for the same thing?
I don't see how Osie is discrediting Wisp with the first post there, where he says that Wisp is trying for a derp-clear. He was actively working and engaging with Wisp for most of the early game after that post IIRC.
For the second post, I don't know what Osie was trying to do WRT team-building. I think team-building pre-flips is dumb and doesn't work very well. You could argue that the first part of that post is him dismissing Wisp, but I think Osie was trying to sort him internally - which is why he was saying that it doesn't "assuage any of the teams with you on them".
Third post - I think that him calling your vote on me after RVS was over an OMGUS vote for Wisp was incorrect and a mischaracterization, yes.
Fourth post - I think Osie was just spewing his real-time thoughts into the thread. Don't see how "tonal dissonance of a chromatic scale of tritones" is him trying to dismiss/discredit DoTA.
Fifth post - Think this is a okay question to ask to Wisp, who was previously only scumreading people who were scumreading him (me, namely)
Sixth post - He's saying that Wisp is missing [something] with regards to his posts, but that he's trying to self-restrain to make the game healthier. If Wisp starts scumhunting, then there's a certain element of his posts that don't exist in his wolf games. Not sure what is discrediting/dismissive of this post.
Seventh post - Osie is posting a meme to mess around with Wisp.
Eighth post - Don't see how this is discrediting anybody when he says "Sure, but I'm not that predictable"
Ninth post - I think he was joking around, but it's hard to tell tone over the internet. If he was legitimately serious about your posts being "mouthy blather" then yes, it would be dismissive of you.
Tenth post, he's asking you a question while joking around with his usual wordplay.
11th post he is also messing around with Wisp when he said to ignore his post on hoping that I would be town.
12th post is him honing in on a Axel/DoTA team that he has dancing around in his mind.
13th post is him being convinced on his pet Axel/DoTA team, and dismissing DoTA's viewpoint because of that. I can see this one being dismissive, but given that he was scumreading DoTA at this point, I can see it coming from town.
14th is him just a declaration of towniness.
15th is just him saying that he thinks both scum are voting him.
16th is him saying that you handwaving his posts as OMGUS is a strawman.
17th is idk. Not really sure why Osie is saying that the game is going"exactly as planned". Think it's just another instance of his fancy wordplay, aptitude for one-liners, and foot in mouth syndrome catching up to him.
18th is him stating that you're mafia because you didn't want the deadline extension.
19th is him doubling down on his scum DV read.
20th is a simple "no u". Again, aptitude for one liners/him just being Osie.
21 is again, him stating that you're mafia because you didn't want the deadline extension.
22 is him continuing to double down on his scumread of you.
23 is him stating his townreads.
24 is him just stating Banana.
----
Wow this was a giant colossal waste of time. Point is, I don't see how the majority of these posts are dismissive. There are a couple, yes (9 potentially, 13) but I don't see how it comes from a wolf mindset.
Well, I also find Proph's conviction that Osie is Town to be well out of whack with what Osie actually put into the thread, but I'm not going down that rabbit hole right now.
I don't want scum to mislunch the people I think are town. I've gotten in trouble for recognizing low-hanging fruit as town but not vigorously defending them in the past. This is me trying to change that.
I need to take a break from this stupid game; I'm getting way too invested in quotewalling with DV when I know he won't change his mind.
I don't know what the vote count is, but I'm willing to vote on any of KJ, Grape, or DoTA to get a counterwagon going.
Hey man I think you forgot that you were scum reading me so why would you want me to change my mind?
Also wasn't Dota higher on the list than me what changed?
Here I got what you can tell other people when they ask:
Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, Dota's feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I'm not sure he's being malicious.
Just irrationally emotionally driven maybe.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think Proph can be scum with anyone but GJ for that post, perhaps? Like, why does Proph hard defend the de facto easy town yeet there?
Proph just doesn't defend his partner like that if he is a wolf, honestly in wolf!Proph worlds, that wall would be completely flipped if Osie was his partner. Like its not even a "what if", it's literally unbelievable for a wolf to defend his partner like this. Especially not Proph. I guess it does depend a lot on if Proph and Osie in wolf chat decided that this was going to be their playstyle
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I'm not sure he's being malicious.
Just irrationally emotionally driven maybe.
ya I mean, I just have a vendetta against playstyles like that, it's just, it can make the game unfun in town worlds.
either way it's hilarious that you are making this post, when you think me and DV are partners
like I don't really understand what town!killjoy is doing right now
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I'm not sure he's being malicious.
Just irrationally emotionally driven maybe.
ya I mean, I just have a vendetta against playstyles like that, it's just, it can make the game unfun in town worlds.
either way it's hilarious that you are making this post, when you think me and DV are partners
like I don't really understand what town!killjoy is doing right now
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I don't really see how Proph getting mad at me is really anything to do with me.
I've just asked him to explain his reads and he has gotten madder and madder over it.
That last post was a big dry /s from me but also a point where Proph is scum reading me but complaining about me not changing my mind.
Meanwhile you are not going to vote anyone because I guess you don't want to win? But please tell me more about how you dislike my playstyle while you throw the game by not participating or voting. Please enlighten me on how much fun that is to play with.
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I'm not sure he's being malicious.
Just irrationally emotionally driven maybe.
ya I mean, I just have a vendetta against playstyles like that, it's just, it can make the game unfun in town worlds.
either way it's hilarious that you are making this post, when you think me and DV are partners
like I don't really understand what town!killjoy is doing right now
I actually don't think DV is scum rn.
but I still am because? When did your DV read even change?
I might start voting who I don't want in lylo from now, that seems to make this game more fun
Will move my vote at 8:00 to one of DoTA or killjoy if my Grapefruit wagon doesn't get any traction.
I'll try to work on a legacy thing in case I bite the dust here, but short answer is that I think GJ is town and that there are two wolves in GF/KJ/DoTA/Cantrip/DV. Most certain on Grape, less certain on KJ, even less certain on the next three.
I'm not scumreading DV lol. He's just made a grand show of misinterpreting my posts for the past 8 hours or so.
Quote from Lastwhisper »
@Proph
Honestly man, IDK what to do in town you worlds, when the wagons are you and GJ
I think the scum are pushing both of our wagons in an attempt to get to lylo. Look for people who are comfortable with the status quo and how the game's been going so far. That's all I have to say.
at this point I may start believing DV is being malicious, I honestly don't know though
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
I don't really see how Proph getting mad at me is really anything to do with me.
I've just asked him to explain his reads and he has gotten madder and madder over it.
That last post was a big dry /s from me but also a point where Proph is scum reading me but complaining about me not changing my mind.
Meanwhile you are not going to vote anyone because I guess you don't want to win? But please tell me more about how you dislike my playstyle while you throw the game by not participating or voting. Please enlighten me on how much fun that is to play with.
i mean it takes 5 to reach majority, with 4 players, that's 4 other players who can hammer, removing 1 maybe if one is a partner? Right now I am dealing with a player who plays his own game, has his vote on a town player, and his progression doesn't exist in the thread. I will be here for EoD if I really have to hammer Proph, but I really do not want to.
I need to take a break from this stupid game; I'm getting way too invested in quotewalling with DV when I know he won't change his mind.
I don't know what the vote count is, but I'm willing to vote on any of KJ, Grape, or DoTA to get a counterwagon going.
Hey man I think you forgot that you were scum reading me so why would you want me to change my mind?
Also wasn't Dota higher on the list than me what changed?
Here I got what you can tell other people when they ask:
Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, Dota's feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
I don't think you will change your mind, but I have nothing better to do for the next 1:30 hours so shrugze.
Again, I'm not scumreading you. I'm trying to figure out if you would gaslight me like this as town or scum, and gun-to-head I think you would do it as town, but I'm not at all certain. I have you as a null/PoE read at the moment.
DoTA has more people interested in voting him, and I don't want to lunch you I think.
Dear god who taught you how to create an argument?
You need to quote some Grape posts and explain how they are agenda driven. Saying that they are doesn't make them so.
Also, I'm going to ask you for the 3rd time now. How is Osie's behavior of dismissing/discrediting others different than those that you have scum read for the same thing?
If you could quote the posts where Osie was discrediting others, then that'd be appreciated. I know he did it to Wisp early game, but I'm working mostly off memory here.
Yeah I'm sold on this.
B) He says Osie was disorganized, yet Osie claimed to have been hyper aware of everything he was posting. And that he was aware of all the interactions he was causing. And Osie said it was all going according to plan.
C) Proph seems to have ignored all of the bad people are seeing in Osie.
While I think DV's points are sound, I am choosing to ignore them for the sake of the day 1 execution, I think proph's responses sound better than the actual cases he is trying to make, which I will not deny, have been "less townie"
Vote: Killjoy
I'm sheeping Proph here, I'm dying on this hill for the sake of day 1.
or dota, or grape
I don't appreciate the expectations being asked of me and the assumptions of me ghosting or not doing enough. We will have to call it even, won't we?
You were 100% hemming and hawing.
That's you complaining since I got here about how unfair the replacement is, and how I magically didn't dazzle you in a short period of time. You were already voting for cross, did him magically saying something wolfier seemingly going by your context really bother you? Or were you more bothered at the fact that I might not have been the lynch for today?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
sure, a day 1 truce, in a micro game?
what could go wrong
It's a more wordier way of saying bad tone. It hits the ear wrong. Or unnatural like your are being forced. What he meant specifically I don't know, but this isn't new mafia language.
I sped read through the rest, and lol dota.
Would you tell us if you were?
So you were just hedging on it then? What does that have to do with Axel then? Why do you need to specify what our interaction is, are you saying Axel is completely null if I flip wolf? What about axels posting towards me makes you even think out typing the w/w?
What does informative matter? Why isn't this just "I think GJ/Cross is the most likely to flip wolf? I seemingly do nothing for your read on Axel. Do you have proph as a wolf if I flip town or something, or are you with axel that proph is potentially my buddy.
Also, since you were on, you were tempted to hammer, were aware of what I asked, and didn't think to respond to it? This post looks so ridiculously planned, it will actually hurt a tiny bit if I git got.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm fine with GJ talking/probing to Axel about Axel's stance on him, while voting DoTA for what seems to be a bad post. DoTA is still ultimately kind of null to me (he's had some good posts and some bad posts, he is going to be my top reread priority going into the Night). I tried to skim some of his games and ultimately he has kind of a consistent tone as either alignment; I'll see if I can do a more focused read-through on him sometime in the next 4 hours.
what exactly are you using to pull Dota out of the PoE again?
Dota pretty much said he doesn't care what I flip. Osie/me had bad posts, and I am information.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And honestly? I feel more certain about Grape being scum atm than KJ.
Unvote, vote Grapefruit21
Kind of how I feel about KJ. It just doesn't wolfy make sense to hedge on probably the most polarizing player in the game.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
it might be townie for Killjoy from a meta standpoint, because its not uncommon for him to just be completely oblivious to the game state, and/or play his own game, but its certainly not townie if I pretend some rando said it.
My point on KJ is nothing to do with meta. He is more than competent enough to know if he was a wolf, it makes sense to commit to a read. I think most people also recognize hedgeyness can be a sign of wolfiness. Especially on well read/polarizing, or heavy posters.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Am I not allowed to read people how I wish? This line of inquiry is bizarre.
Playing this goddamn game for over 10 years.
I think these posts are agenda-y to hell and back:
He says that GJ has a decent chance to be scum.. but says that he's also not scum with me, and that I am "howling" (means that he is heavily scumreading me). I feel like Grape is trying to chain mislunches here - by going after me, then being able to point this as justification for re-voting GJ once I flip town.
Grapefruit is trying to case me off of defending myself from blowback, but what I was writing out was an in-depth explanation of my mindset of my read on Osie throughout the early game. I think him twisting my mindset explanation into an attack on me is wolfy and agenda-based - especially as he positioned himself to jump off on Osie.
I don't see how Osie is discrediting Wisp with the first post there, where he says that Wisp is trying for a derp-clear. He was actively working and engaging with Wisp for most of the early game after that post IIRC.
For the second post, I don't know what Osie was trying to do WRT team-building. I think team-building pre-flips is dumb and doesn't work very well. You could argue that the first part of that post is him dismissing Wisp, but I think Osie was trying to sort him internally - which is why he was saying that it doesn't "assuage any of the teams with you on them".
Third post - I think that him calling your vote on me after RVS was over an OMGUS vote for Wisp was incorrect and a mischaracterization, yes.
Fourth post - I think Osie was just spewing his real-time thoughts into the thread. Don't see how "tonal dissonance of a chromatic scale of tritones" is him trying to dismiss/discredit DoTA.
Fifth post - Think this is a okay question to ask to Wisp, who was previously only scumreading people who were scumreading him (me, namely)
Sixth post - He's saying that Wisp is missing [something] with regards to his posts, but that he's trying to self-restrain to make the game healthier. If Wisp starts scumhunting, then there's a certain element of his posts that don't exist in his wolf games. Not sure what is discrediting/dismissive of this post.
Seventh post - Osie is posting a meme to mess around with Wisp.
Eighth post - Don't see how this is discrediting anybody when he says "Sure, but I'm not that predictable"
Ninth post - I think he was joking around, but it's hard to tell tone over the internet. If he was legitimately serious about your posts being "mouthy blather" then yes, it would be dismissive of you.
Tenth post, he's asking you a question while joking around with his usual wordplay.
11th post he is also messing around with Wisp when he said to ignore his post on hoping that I would be town.
12th post is him honing in on a Axel/DoTA team that he has dancing around in his mind.
13th post is him being convinced on his pet Axel/DoTA team, and dismissing DoTA's viewpoint because of that. I can see this one being dismissive, but given that he was scumreading DoTA at this point, I can see it coming from town.
14th is him just a declaration of towniness.
15th is just him saying that he thinks both scum are voting him.
16th is him saying that you handwaving his posts as OMGUS is a strawman.
17th is idk. Not really sure why Osie is saying that the game is going"exactly as planned". Think it's just another instance of his fancy wordplay, aptitude for one-liners, and foot in mouth syndrome catching up to him.
18th is him stating that you're mafia because you didn't want the deadline extension.
19th is him doubling down on his scum DV read.
20th is a simple "no u". Again, aptitude for one liners/him just being Osie.
21 is again, him stating that you're mafia because you didn't want the deadline extension.
22 is him continuing to double down on his scumread of you.
23 is him stating his townreads.
24 is him just stating Banana.
----
Wow this was a giant colossal waste of time. Point is, I don't see how the majority of these posts are dismissive. There are a couple, yes (9 potentially, 13) but I don't see how it comes from a wolf mindset.
I don't know what the vote count is, but I'm willing to vote on any of KJ, Grape, or DoTA to get a counterwagon going.
Hey man I think you forgot that you were scum reading me so why would you want me to change my mind?
Also wasn't Dota higher on the list than me what changed?
Here I got what you can tell other people when they ask:
Out of all of the votes on the Crossbell wagon, Dota's feels the most agenda-driven. With an exception, he's been pretty gung-ho about not liking Crossbell or I. I fear that he may be trying to chain mislunches (he's tunnelling Crossbell, then when he flips town he will shift to focus to me)
Either way I'm not voting Proph, regardless of how sound DV's case maybe, and the inconsistencies he may? have found
I'll revisit the possibility of Proph being a wolf again, on day 2
Just irrationally emotionally driven maybe.
either way it's hilarious that you are making this post, when you think me and DV are partners
like I don't really understand what town!killjoy is doing right now
Prophylaxis - 3 (Cantripmancer, Grapefruit21, D_V)
Gentleman Johnny - 2 (Axelrod, DoTArchon)
DOTArchon - 1 (GJ)
LastWhisper - 1 (Killjoy)
Killjoy - 1 (Lastwhisper)
Grapefruit21 - 1 (Prophylaxis)
Plz come back
@Proph
Honestly man, IDK what to do in town you worlds, when the wagons are you and GJ
I don't really see how Proph getting mad at me is really anything to do with me.
I've just asked him to explain his reads and he has gotten madder and madder over it.
That last post was a big dry /s from me but also a point where Proph is scum reading me but complaining about me not changing my mind.
Meanwhile you are not going to vote anyone because I guess you don't want to win? But please tell me more about how you dislike my playstyle while you throw the game by not participating or voting. Please enlighten me on how much fun that is to play with.
I might start voting who I don't want in lylo from now, that seems to make this game more fun
Will move my vote at 8:00 to one of DoTA or killjoy if my Grapefruit wagon doesn't get any traction.
I'll try to work on a legacy thing in case I bite the dust here, but short answer is that I think GJ is town and that there are two wolves in GF/KJ/DoTA/Cantrip/DV. Most certain on Grape, less certain on KJ, even less certain on the next three.
I think the scum are pushing both of our wagons in an attempt to get to lylo. Look for people who are comfortable with the status quo and how the game's been going so far. That's all I have to say.
Again, I'm not scumreading you. I'm trying to figure out if you would gaslight me like this as town or scum, and gun-to-head I think you would do it as town, but I'm not at all certain. I have you as a null/PoE read at the moment.
DoTA has more people interested in voting him, and I don't want to lunch you I think.
Really don't want to be back in a bit. Wait isn't it almost 11PM EST? So we got like an hour 15 right now right?
Have fun reading my obviously crafted to look good posts in that game.
god i hate midnight times, I got the days mixed up
@Proph
do not hammer yourself if it comes to it
I'm never giving up unless RL decides to intervene. When I say I play a game, I will give it my all.
Literally in a race against time here LMAO