I posted my 228 and just started skimming old games of yours, plus I reread your ISO and tried to put myself in your shoes. Your early game makes a lot of sense given that perspective. (Now I guess it's possible I should look at it from the opposite perspective, but shrug)
Your post 230 is also quite good. I do think the razor just points to scum being in the lower-activity posters thus far given MTGS site meta.
Let's try this?
Vote DoTArchon
Idk if I want to sheep this or if I stick with trying to get Axelrod to impress me... I think I just sheep this though since DoTA hasn't gotten better.
Also if you're scum and talked me out of me tunneling you, then well done.
I think this post (among others) would be.. a little harder to post/enter your brain as something worthy of posting if you were a wolf, while if you're town then this is a pretty natural thought to have.
Quote from Wisp »
man i dont want proph to be a wolf
his luck on this site would be so devastating if that was the case again
I wanna give him a chance
I hope I'm right lmao and I'm not about to get MEGA SNOWED
don't bother with these kinds of posts, I ignore them
Don't bother with these kinds of posts, I ignore them.
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
Disagree. That quoted post with bolded emphasis feels like an aha moment, which is harder for scum to fake than town. Not impossible, but the conviction feels more likely town, too.
@Cantripmancer Can you, me, and Prophylaxis just all jump into each others' living rooms towncore and stay there? It would make solving this game a hell of a lot easier. Wisp may be able to come too if he is willing to leave the emotional baggage at the door lmao.
Cantripmancer - Once they showed up, they did a great job of showing his towniness.
Crossbell - My role PM says this player is town.
Prophylaxis - Town GOAT.
Probably would not eliminate:
Killjoy - Townie enough when present.
Wisp - Townie enough when thinking.
Might eliminate:
DV - I want to give them the same read as Wisp but I have reservations and tinfoils. They could be towncore if I can find them.
Grapefruit21 - The more I see from them the more I remember how much they hedge, and the more I want to see them flip.
Would eliminate:
Axelrod - Needs to do something already.
DoTArchon - Needs to do something townie already.
@Dota Welcome to the right side of history. Can you talk about the KJ distancing read though. I'm really confused what you think the significance of it is. KJ is more likely to be town because he pointed out an interaction could be distancing? Are you an MTG player? Because Axel is right that Time Walk and Ancestral really do massively overshadow Timetwister to a massive degree. So if anything I'd put KJ making a point of it more likely to KJ trying to generate an interaction than anything to do with Axel. Now I'm not going to scum read him over it because that would be ridiculous, but I think I'd put it as a tiny unaligned between KJ and Axel if KJ were to flip scum. Think it's entirely meaningless from Axel's side though. His flip would mean nothing towards KJs.
It was a viewpoint I hadn't considered, and one that didn't make sense to bring up as scum. I played MTG for a number of years and I agree, it is possible he just overlooked Timetwister. I just see a town mindset from KJ in considering all the possibilities.
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
How do these two posts below affect your read on Axel?
I don't get a ton out of them. DV focused in on the very first sentence of my comment on Axelrod and clearly didn't think much about the rest. Lastwhisper is using a meta read, which is just spewing wine into the thread.
I did read your explanation, I'm just not buying it. You're not trying to figure out Axelrod through questions and discussion, you're using meta to justify your scumread. And then you dismiss Wisp's opinion on the basis that it's a meta read...? Unvote Vote: Crossbell
to each their own I guess? What is wrong with using meta to justify a scum read? I guess on a very simplistic level, you are being just as dismissive. Meh
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
How do these two posts below affect your read on Axel?
I don't get a ton out of them. DV focused in on the very first sentence of my comment on Axelrod and clearly didn't think much about the rest. Lastwhisper is using a meta read, which is just spewing wine into the thread.
I did read your explanation, I'm just not buying it. You're not trying to figure out Axelrod through questions and discussion, you're using meta to justify your scumread. And then you dismiss Wisp's opinion on the basis that it's a meta read...? Unvote Vote: Crossbell
to each their own I guess? What is wrong with using meta to justify a scum read? I guess on a very simplistic level, you are being just as dismissive. Meh
come back and play plz
Nothing wrong with using meta as a means to determine a players alignment, but Crossbell uses a meta read of Axel and dismisses your meta read as spewing wine. You can't have it both ways, either you consider meta to be a valid method or you dismiss it completely. The two bolded sections above are at odds with one another. Crossbell did later refer to it as a tonal read but I don't see the difference, reading the players tone without even engaging with them once requires knowledge of how the player posts as both alignments across various games.
There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T.
Idk if I want to sheep this or if I stick with trying to get Axelrod to impress me... I think I just sheep this though since DoTA hasn't gotten better.
How could DoTA have gotten better when he hadn't posted?
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
Disagree. That quoted post with bolded emphasis feels like an aha moment, which is harder for scum to fake than town. Not impossible, but the conviction feels more likely town, too.
Ehh, it's pretty fragile though.
I don't know that it is, though. Feels very much like town pulling a thread (from his 137) and then seeing something significant in the details of your response and jumping on it. Although...he was putting you to L-2 and then peaced out for 24 hours, so I guess it could have been an attempt to start an elimination movement without looking like he was involved. Eh...I just feel like I want more from DoTA for now.
@Cantripmancer Can you, me, and Prophylaxis just all jump into each others' living rooms towncore and stay there? It would make solving this game a hell of a lot easier. Wisp may be able to come too if he is willing to leave the emotional baggage at the door lmao.
Man, that sounds cozy. But I'm far from satisfied with Proph's responses, so...my magic 8-ball says "prognosis is grim". I'm down with Wisp, though.
There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T.
That is...a weird way to conclude your statement. Your suspicion of Cross is apparent, so I get that you think they're either W/W or T/W, but why say it this way instead of just pondering whether Axel is a buddy or not? That doesn't seem to jive with your "are they trying to figure each other out" possibility, either, as that would only happen with T/T.
Pretty interested as to how Cantrip and I have.. bifurcating reads outside of the ones on Wisp/Crossbell, but I'll sort that out in X hours or so.
Up until less than 12 hours ago, we were bifurcated on Wisp as well, and I think there's a good chance you're mafia, so are you really that surprised that our reads don't align? Looking forward to you sorting and responding to my questions.
That is...a weird way to conclude your statement. Your suspicion of Cross is apparent, so I get that you think they're either W/W or T/W, but why say it this way instead of just pondering whether Axel is a buddy or not? That doesn't seem to jive with your "are they trying to figure each other out" possibility, either, as that would only happen with T/T.
If I'm wrong about Cross being scum then I have to reevaluate my reads and that includes Cross's scum read of Axel.
@Dota: "There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T." If one of the possibilities is 'trying to figure each other out, wouldn't T/T be possible there? What specifically makes you lean that they are not [both] doing that which would specifically make it a not t/t interaction?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Dota: "There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T." If one of the possibilities is 'trying to figure each other out, wouldn't T/T be possible there? What specifically makes you lean that they are not [both] doing that which would specifically make it a not t/t interaction?
This is the full interaction between the two of them, apart from some early questions from Axel that Cross answered in one post, the rest is all speculation as to who Cross might be behind the alt and a some banter. Little to no attempt at a proper discussion regarding the state of the game.
Axelrod - Needed to explain their RVS vote. Feels generally a bit awkward; possibly their first scumgame in a while? The only talk in the game they really do after that point is still playing defense, it seems. Not a good start for one of the better town players on the site. Scumread.
I'm wondering what part of my RVS vote you thought that I thought I needed to explain? That I was going to vote for a Blue card? Why I was voting for a Blue card? Or how I chose between Timewalk and Ancestral?
And is the "defense" you are speaking of when I answered someone's not very serious question with a not very serious answer?
I mean, seems like you are reeeeeeally stretching to try and reach this point.
I was also going to say I have no idea who Crossbell is and was not going be spending any brain power at all trying to figure it out, when he said this:
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
Which actually narrows it down to, um...one person?
Sooooo, 'sup?
Sorry I still haven't done the thing. I am terrible.
I'm wondering what part of my RVS vote you thought that I thought I needed to explain? That I was going to vote for a Blue card? Why I was voting for a Blue card? Or how I chose between Timewalk and Ancestral?
And is the "defense" you are speaking of when I answered someone's not very serious question with a not very serious answer?
I mean, seems like you are reeeeeeally stretching to try and reach this point.
The fact and manner in which you chose between Time Walk and Ancestral. But yes, I want to push you out of your comfort zone and make you get serious early on.
Quote from "Axelrod" »
Which actually narrows it down to, um...one person?
Sooooo, 'sup?
Sorry I still haven't done the thing. I am terrible.
I can truthfully say that I don't know what you're talking about.
I swear there was a game in the not-that-distant past where someone opened the game, in like their very first post with a way-too-in-depth analysis of every player in the game up to that point. And proceeded to get raked over the coals for it.
Does that sound familiar to anyone? I feel like this happened.
I swear there was a game in the not-that-distant past where someone opened the game, in like their very first post with a way-too-in-depth analysis of every player in the game up to that point. And proceeded to get raked over the coals for it.
Does that sound familiar to anyone? I feel like this happened.
That's definitely happened to me in the past, but I suspect it might not be the same person. I've done the way-too-in-depth thing for a while now, though.
It was on Mafia Universe. Osie. Who is/was who I thought Crossbell was.
I was going to say that would be somewhat town+ for Osie. But if Crossbell is saying that's not him, then I guess I don't think anything.
Osie got flak for that? I vaguely remember them getting most of the flak that game for putting their foot in their mouth, not for trying to draw blood out of a stone.
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
YOU said you had talked with me personally. And Osie is (I think) literally the only person on this site I have ever actually spoken to.
So what you MEANT was like, in PMs, or on Discord, or something. Hmmmmm?
My identity aside, you now have two votes on you again. Hopefully that's enough to get you to say something about players/posts outside of Crossbell/Prophylaxis/Wisp?
YOU said you had talked with me personally. And Osie is (I think) literally the only person on this site I have ever actually spoken to.
So what you MEANT was like, in PMs, or on Discord, or something. Hmmmmm?
My identity aside, you now have two votes on you again. Hopefully that's enough to get you to say something about players/posts outside of Crossbell/Prophylaxis/Wisp?
Yes, hopefully.
Right now though I am going to sleep. :link::link:
YOU said you had talked with me personally. And Osie is (I think) literally the only person on this site I have ever actually spoken to.
So what you MEANT was like, in PMs, or on Discord, or something. Hmmmmm?
My identity aside, you now have two votes on you again. Hopefully that's enough to get you to say something about players/posts outside of Crossbell/Prophylaxis/Wisp?
Yes, hopefully.
Right now though I am going to sleep. :link::link:
So after I pointed out that Cross was scumreading Axel without having any interactions with each other, they've now got a series of posts that still don't go anywhere towards moving the game forward. And Cross has moved their vote to me.
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
How do these two posts below affect your read on Axel?
I don't get a ton out of them. DV focused in on the very first sentence of my comment on Axelrod and clearly didn't think much about the rest. Lastwhisper is using a meta read, which is just spewing wine into the thread.
I did read your explanation, I'm just not buying it. You're not trying to figure out Axelrod through questions and discussion, you're using meta to justify your scumread. And then you dismiss Wisp's opinion on the basis that it's a meta read...? Unvote Vote: Crossbell
to each their own I guess? What is wrong with using meta to justify a scum read? I guess on a very simplistic level, you are being just as dismissive. Meh
come back and play plz
Nothing wrong with using meta as a means to determine a players alignment, but Crossbell uses a meta read of Axel and dismisses your meta read as spewing wine. You can't have it both ways, either you consider meta to be a valid method or you dismiss it completely. The two bolded sections above are at odds with one another. Crossbell did later refer to it as a tonal read but I don't see the difference, reading the players tone without even engaging with them once requires knowledge of how the player posts as both alignments across various games.
There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T.
I think the only people here to have possibly seen Axel's scumgame are DV and maybe Proph, and that was many years ago.
Idk if I want to sheep this or if I stick with trying to get Axelrod to impress me... I think I just sheep this though since DoTA hasn't gotten better.
How could DoTA have gotten better when he hadn't posted?
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
Disagree. That quoted post with bolded emphasis feels like an aha moment, which is harder for scum to fake than town. Not impossible, but the conviction feels more likely town, too.
Ehh, it's pretty fragile though.
I don't know that it is, though. Feels very much like town pulling a thread (from his 137) and then seeing something significant in the details of your response and jumping on it. Although...he was putting you to L-2 and then peaced out for 24 hours, so I guess it could have been an attempt to start an elimination movement without looking like he was involved. Eh...I just feel like I want more from DoTA for now.
@Cantripmancer Can you, me, and Prophylaxis just all jump into each others' living rooms towncore and stay there? It would make solving this game a hell of a lot easier. Wisp may be able to come too if he is willing to leave the emotional baggage at the door lmao.
Man, that sounds cozy. But I'm far from satisfied with Proph's responses, so...my magic 8-ball says "prognosis is grim". I'm down with Wisp, though.
Yeah, I think I was a convenient choice for scum DoTA, with how he approached things and how he ducked out. It feels disingenuous.
As for Proph, while I don't know for sure that I want to see him in F3, I am pretty comfortable with a townread on heart and soul.
So after I pointed out that Cross was scumreading Axel without having any interactions with each other, they've now got a series of posts that still don't go anywhere towards moving the game forward. And Cross has moved their vote to me.
I have pointed out that part of my issue with Axel is that they haven't been doing enough to progress the game. But given that you two are likely teammates, I'm not surprised that you're trying to handwave my actual read on Axel.
@Cantripmancer - Because we're so diametrically opposed on our reads of the slot, can you talk to me in more detail about what you don't like about Proph? I await a glorious wall of evaluation.
Back at you compadre. Still not liking the cut of your jib. But I ended up not reading anything last night. Was cubing instead (speaking of people should join us next time we cube in the MTGS discord! It's fun!) and ran out of time.
I looked at some older games, reread Wisp's ISO, tried to put myself in his town shoes and... I no longer believe that he is scum. On the contrary, I think he is actually leaning town.
My bad.
Well that is a pivot. Hrmmm. Probably more likely to come from town!Proph just naturally changing his mind but that is jarring.
The meta read is actually playing a lot stronger here than I think I realized. Each subsequent post makes me feel like it's more likely who I think it is, and I'm freaking loving it. (Spoiler: I'm probably completely wrong, because I'm almost always wrong on these things, but something something blind squirrel...) I'm also happy with the volume of output. Again, not necessarily town on its own, but in combination with everything, feels indicative to me. The Axel read still doesn't meld with me (nor the DoTa one, tbf), but the meta dive at least lets me see where Cross is coming from.
I posted my 228 and just started skimming old games of yours, plus I reread your ISO and tried to put myself in your shoes. Your early game makes a lot of sense given that perspective. (Now I guess it's possible I should look at it from the opposite perspective, but shrug)
Your post 230 is also quite good. I do think the razor just points to scum being in the lower-activity posters thus far given MTGS site meta.
Let's try this?
Vote DoTArchon
And there go my good feelings from the Wisp pivot. The pivot itself is definitely town indicative but where is the reevaluation of the rest of the game. It's just a complete upheaval in how he's viewing the game but the only change in prospective is to add wisp to the town block. Just feels off to me. Bleh.
(Also that lylo is 100% how you are supposed to approach final 3s as town)
ya well DLP is a cracked site, and of course this was 4 years ago, cause I was gunna say.
Five years ago, even! How does time fly by.
-----
(As a random aside: One of my bigger pet peeves I've seen floating around recently is when people say "lunch me right now in f7/f5/whatever so I don't get mislunched in f3". This is such a stupid stance to take because if you know you're town, and there is one wolf remaining, then advocating for your own mislunch just so that you don't bear responsibility in f3 is basically you just throwing the game away. You should just work on lunching literally any other person, because that's someone's alignment you don't know, and that's a chance that you can end the game right there. If you DO end up in f3 or whatever, the game isn't lost. You might have to give it your all and/or try your hardest, but the game isn't over just because you got to f3.)
I don't really care what my fate ends up being with regards to this game. I will do my best to avoid being mislunched, and if the scum NK me, then I will feel good about myself. But I will continue to keep giving this game my all for as long as I am alive.
Disagree. That quoted post with bolded emphasis feels like an aha moment, which is harder for scum to fake than town. Not impossible, but the conviction feels more likely town, too.
I actually reread the surrounding context and you're right. I can see how DoTA could come to the conclusion that Crossbell is scum for using Axel's meta as the basis for scumreading him, all the while Crossbell is dismissing Wisp's read on DV as "spewing wine into the thread". I'll read through more of DoTA's posts as I go on, but the bolded emphasis is a good catch and something I didn't fully comprehend as I was reading DoTA's post.
Quote from Cantripmancer »
It's not the content, it's the sharpness of the insight. Iirc, the feeling I often get from scum!KJ is sort of a meandering lost. He can't have sharp insights because he feels there's nothing to solve. He's honing in on something that he doesn't understand and applying focused scrutiny. I think that comes from town!KJ.
Okay. I don't think I've played with scum KJ in forever (I've wolfed against him a couple of times IIRC semi-recently) so I will continue to monitor how he is playing.
Quote from Cantripmancer »
I can see what you're saying a bit with 19 and 25, but I'm really not seeing the reactiveness of 8 or 29. I know you've recently re-evaluated Wisp townward, but given the conviction you were showing based on early game meta comparison, right now it just looks like you've decided that trying to get Wisp mis-eliminated isn't worth the effort and you're going to push elsewhere. (I saw your explanation, and I don't want to ask you to provide more detail because I generally agree with what you "found", but your change in position is a bit, as you say, jarring.)
The reason why I thought his post 8 was clumsy was because he didn't lead off with an RVS vote, and he did a LOT of this type of behavior when we wolfed together in Darling. (At first I thought this was indicative of wolf him, but thinking about it more critically I think it means he might be town, because I don't think he would do this type of outreach if he rolled scum again)
Post 29 still strikes me as a little weird. Not really sure what he is implying when he says "hmm, hard debate on which of you I would kill first". Does he mean in a hypothetical world where he randed scum, he would have trouble figuring out which one of me or DV to nightkill N1?
That's my reasoning behind why I thought those two posts in particular read as off at the time.
Quote from Crossbell »
@Cantripmancer Can you, me, and Prophylaxis just all jump into each others' living rooms towncore and stay there? It would make solving this game a hell of a lot easier. Wisp may be able to come too if he is willing to leave the emotional baggage at the door lmao.
I think Cantrip's posts have been /good/, but I'm still not necessarily sure how to read him.
He really fooled me in the last game we played together (Phantom of the Opera), where all of his posts were objectively solid but he just didn't post enough, leading him to be caught by PoE at the end. I don't have a great sense of his town or scumrange, which is why I am keeping him at arm's length. (plus he's scumreading me and we have pretty differing views of the gamestate right now)
@DoTArchon: I want you to zoom out a little. What are your thoughts on players in this game not named Killjoy, Crossbell, or Axelrod?
Also, can you link me your most completed town/scum games? I feel like we've played together in the past, but my memory is not great regarding games on this site because of the consecutive wolf rands I had from 2016 to.. 2020 lol.
Quote from Cantripmancer »
Up until less than 12 hours ago, we were bifurcated on Wisp as well, and I think there's a good chance you're mafia, so are you really that surprised that our reads don't align? Looking forward to you sorting and responding to my questions.
I'm surprised because I think we have similar playstyles and ways of approaching the game. I'm also town, so I'm trying to figure out if you pushing me is you attempting to actively sort me or if you are trying to get me mislunched. (Gun to head, I think it's the former, but I know your scumgame is good - which is why I am putting you at arm's length)
----
@Grapefruit: Can I ask you why you think me pivoting on Wisp is more likely to come from town!me, rather than what Cantrip assumed? (That I am scum and that I've decided that mislunching Wisp isn't worth the time and effort)
I am continually amazed/amused by people who continually remark about how I don't seem to be doing anything early on D1 (or on D1 period) in a mafia game and seem to think this is suspect, and yet, I think literally every single person in this game has seen me do it, so, like, really people? And I already know it's going to be doubly bad in this game because there are no claims and (historically, at least) that's easily 50% of how I suss people out.
I mean, it is entirely possible that if I drew a scum card for the first time in forever, I might try to coast on "Axel never does anything on D1 anyway" for a while, but the reason I would hypothetically be doing that would be because I do it as Town. It would be the definition of not alignment indicative, at least for me.
This doesn't mean I'm just going to shrug my shoulders D1. On the contrary, I really want to get it right, but it's also going to be really hard from where I'm sitting. I have exactly one hard data point - me Town. So anyone who expresses suspicions of me is (1) innocently mistaken, or (2) scum. I may be able to garner a few impressions there. If I can get a hard-Town read on someone else, I might get another data point, but I'm pretty unlikely to get a read like that that I really feel confident about this early.
All that said, I'm going to go re-read some stuff, and see if anything sticks out.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Honestly if I was a day vig, I'd probably shoot Proph right now, and not even flinch lmao. Anyways I'm out of work, maybe I'll do something, maybe I won't. Being a micro might change how Crossbell plays, but it certainly isn't changing how I play
if I'm not dead tonight, can I death tunnel you? Lol
@Prophylaxis - Is this a mafia-slip for Lastwhisper?
I'm not a super fan of this question, but possibly I don't understand it. What were you asking here? What was the slip you possibly thought you saw that you wanted Proph to confirm if it was a thing that scum-Wisp does?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am continually amazed/amused by people who continually remark about how I don't seem to be doing anything early on D1 (or on D1 period) in a mafia game and seem to think this is suspect, and yet, I think literally every single person in this game has seen me do it, so, like, really people? And I already know it's going to be doubly bad in this game because there are no claims and (historically, at least) that's easily 50% of how I suss people out.
I mean, it is entirely possible that if I drew a scum card for the first time in forever, I might try to coast on "Axel never does anything on D1 anyway" for a while, but the reason I would hypothetically be doing that would be because I do it as Town. It would be the definition of not alignment indicative, at least for me.
This doesn't mean I'm just going to shrug my shoulders D1. On the contrary, I really want to get it right, but it's also going to be really hard from where I'm sitting. I have exactly one hard data point - me Town. So anyone who expresses suspicions of me is (1) innocently mistaken, or (2) scum. I may be able to garner a few impressions there. If I can get a hard-Town read on someone else, I might get another data point, but I'm pretty unlikely to get a read like that that I really feel confident about this early.
All that said, I'm going to go re-read some stuff, and see if anything sticks out.
honestly the worst thing out of your iso for me, was saying you were gunna do stuff, and all I recall is you responding to my post about you being town, which I guess I was hoping for more. Like I know you early isn't spectacular, but I do kinda still expect you to pick at things. But again weekends aren't your thing, so I'll just continue to watch you.
I am continually amazed/amused by people who continually remark about how I don't seem to be doing anything early on D1 (or on D1 period) in a mafia game and seem to think this is suspect, and yet, I think literally every single person in this game has seen me do it, so, like, really people? And I already know it's going to be doubly bad in this game because there are no claims and (historically, at least) that's easily 50% of how I suss people out.
I mean, it is entirely possible that if I drew a scum card for the first time in forever, I might try to coast on "Axel never does anything on D1 anyway" for a while, but the reason I would hypothetically be doing that would be because I do it as Town. It would be the definition of not alignment indicative, at least for me.
This doesn't mean I'm just going to shrug my shoulders D1. On the contrary, I really want to get it right, but it's also going to be really hard from where I'm sitting. I have exactly one hard data point - me Town. So anyone who expresses suspicions of me is (1) innocently mistaken, or (2) scum. I may be able to garner a few impressions there. If I can get a hard-Town read on someone else, I might get another data point, but I'm pretty unlikely to get a read like that that I really feel confident about this early.
All that said, I'm going to go re-read some stuff, and see if anything sticks out.
honestly the worst thing out of your iso for me, was saying you were gunna do stuff, and all I recall is you responding to my post about you being town, which I guess I was hoping for more. Like I know you early isn't spectacular, but I do kinda still expect you to pick at things. But again weekends aren't your thing, so I'll just continue to watch you.
currently I'm going to keep an eye on your overall energy levels and/or enthusiasm
In as much as I consider meta, I considered this because it was (at least at one time) seemingly an accurate way to peg Proph, i.e., he might start strong as scum, but couldn't maintain his energy/posting levels as the game went on and started to lurk more and more.
That might not be an accurate assessment of scum-Proph now, but I thought it was a reasonable thing for Last to say here.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Reading Crossbell now and it's so many posts. My eyes just want to glaze over it. I have become a dinosaur.
Anyway I still have my same feelings about Crossbell's entrance. If I'm being generous some of the jaggedness could be coming from the roleplay, but it's spikey.
And the rainbow wall is still just rubbing me the wrong way. Like the read on me for example chooses to harp on the second vote when it seems obvious my vote was determined before the game by the cards. But then there does seem to be a reasonable thought process on reacting to my posts. Interestingly though is that it's very staccato. Could be a playstyle thing but each point about my posts is disconnected from the last. For example mentions my question to Wisp looks like busy work but then likes my explanation in #66 with some reservations. Or the emphasis on 69 being unexplained and abrupt before sort of liking my 73 where it's explained. It feels performative but I am not sure if I'm mistaking different style for scummy. To me it feels like busywork because I'd never do an ISO that way and I'd weave back to the earlier posts in my analysis and how the subsequent posts change my opinions of them. The only reason I might is if I was scum just trying to get something to stick to the wall and was writing up every post without thinking about it.
The words on DV have the same sort of staccato element to a lesser degree. But in fairness the read on Wisp is much more fluid.
So the whole thing just feels off to me just on a process level and that's before I get to the reads that just make me squint like the Axel suspicion, Dota getting scum leaned, and the content of the Wisp read which stands out in how hedgey it is compared to everything else.
The spamming with Wisp definitely does feel like an attempt to solve him. Like he clearly knows Wisp and irking Wisp and spamming with him is usually a reliable way to sort him so that's a town indication.
If Crossbell is Osie as people have speculated (I don't want to know the mystery is fun and I am truly awful at guessing Alts going 0'fer in the DLP/MU thing game) then the reads wall is much less of a red flag. 133. Well the reads part of it. I'd have to do a meta dive on Osie to see if the staccato part translates but I'm not going to do a meta dive based upon speculation that I don't really have an opinion on.
The Axel Meta analysis doesn't give me great vibes. It's very arbitrary with the 100 post cut off and fact that in particular 80s feelgood was similarly joking. I get that it was about the switch flipping to serious but it doesn't go into the context of the game at all. The comparison to Feel Good 80s in particular is pinging me. That game was so comparably jokey that I think it completely undermines their point. And I think Crossbell knows it too throwing my quote in at the end talking about how the joking is a character break. Definitely agenda vibes here.
The team sort in 155 is just incomprehensible to me. I have no clue how any Cantrip teams were eliminated at that point. Cantrip had 1 post at that point. 1.
I think this might be confirmation bias because I've been scum reading Cross through this ISO but the friendly meme'ing with Proph and DV feels like if not a pocket attempt and attempt to get in their good graces.
198 is sort of what I mean. It's a kind of pointless post other than to agree with Proph. He doesn't really use that distinction to push Wisp or Axel. He's pushing Axel but that is never really his point.
The pivot to Dota has a whiff of OMGUS to it. Not in the traditional sense of a knee jerk reaction but in a wanting to build a wagon over the vote. The move off Axel and onto Dota just feels off to me. I can't point to any specific post but the way they beg DV to go with them and then follow Proph instead after DV votes with Cross is just more of the appeasement I was getting at.
ISO done.
So major thoughts are the intial tone felt off but that improved throughout the game. Probably was mostly early Roleplay missing for me. The readswall and team sort are agenda'y red flags to me. As is the intial Axel push. Then the buddying up to Proph and DV just doesn't feel like town core building to me (given the different handling of Wisp for example).
Vote on Crossbell sticking and increasing in intensity.
when do I ever try to make things happen? i mean maybe sometimes I will try, still too early, I am usually good at ending RVS in mechanical games, but in a vanilla game, ya I got nothing
I'm pretty sure your town game is more proactive than this?
Just way too early (post 39?) to be claiming someone doesn't seem as proactive as in their other (Town) games.
Also, again, in as much as meta is a thing, I don't even think it's accurate? Not to offend Wisp, but I almost never see him as "proactive." He seems extremely reactive. And also incredibly random.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I mean I used to be insanely proactive, but that hasn't been for a while, now its mostly reactiveness, and working off others.
also proph takes all his games seriously, but enthusiasm isn't something he can keep up with. Consistency wise, I personally think he is a lot better with. Its definitely not as easy to catch him on a macro level anymore.
@Grapefruit: Can I ask you why you think me pivoting on Wisp is more likely to come from town!me, rather than what Cantrip assumed? (That I am scum and that I've decided that mislunching Wisp isn't worth the time and effort)
I've come to the conclusion that completely abrupt reevaluations are townie in a vacuum. Context obviously matters but mafia will be worried about their progression seeming unnatural while town will just follow their line of thought.
Though I now have other concerns about your reevaluation but I still don't think you make sense with Crossbell so I'm less concerned than I was when I made that post.
I think Axel not including Timetwister kinda reads to me as "less likely aligned" than "criminal mastermind obviously avoiding his buddy" especially since that would be optimal distancing time.
I think this is a reasonably incisive point from KJ, and I kind of like that mindset he's coming from.
In general, this early, getting "they seem like they wouldn't be scum-buddies together" vibes is a pretty reasonable way to proceed.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Out of time for now but did a quick Axel ISO and I didn't take much away from it. Tonally I think he's jokier than my memory of Axel but Cross's meta dive reminded me of how much he leaned into fun in 80s mafia. So the tone shift really isn't meaningful at all probably. Outside of tone stuff there really isn't much only two posts caught my eye.
It was on Mafia Universe. Osie. Who is/was who I thought Crossbell was.
I was going to say that would be somewhat town+ for Osie. But if Crossbell is saying that's not him, then I guess I don't think anything.
This seems not fully chased out to me. Crossbell's wall has been probably the most talked about event in this game and generated some strong opinions. I can see the process of it being town+ for Osie but I struggle to see the setting it aside part for anyone else. Or if he thinks it's not indicative not digging into other people's rather more zealous reactions down the line (like my own). That just doesn't happen and it just feels a bit isolated to me. Some points for a Cross/Axel unalignment though.
Just way too early (post 39?) to be claiming someone doesn't seem as proactive as in their other (Town) games.
Also, again, in as much as meta is a thing, I don't even think it's accurate? Not to offend Wisp, but I almost never see him as "proactive." He seems extremely reactive. And also incredibly random.
This on the other hand looks pretty solid to me. It's a reasonable call out on a difference in meta interpretation and that follow through interaction I felt was lacking in the previous post I highlighted. He's not just viewing in isolation here and you can see the effort to tug at people's opinions and sort things that was lacking.
I am continually amazed/amused by people who continually remark about how I don't seem to be doing anything early on D1 (or on D1 period) in a mafia game and seem to think this is suspect, and yet, I think literally every single person in this game has seen me do it, so, like, really people? And I already know it's going to be doubly bad in this game because there are no claims and (historically, at least) that's easily 50% of how I suss people out.
I mean, it is entirely possible that if I drew a scum card for the first time in forever, I might try to coast on "Axel never does anything on D1 anyway" for a while, but the reason I would hypothetically be doing that would be because I do it as Town. It would be the definition of not alignment indicative, at least for me.
This doesn't mean I'm just going to shrug my shoulders D1. On the contrary, I really want to get it right, but it's also going to be really hard from where I'm sitting. I have exactly one hard data point - me Town. So anyone who expresses suspicions of me is (1) innocently mistaken, or (2) scum. I may be able to garner a few impressions there. If I can get a hard-Town read on someone else, I might get another data point, but I'm pretty unlikely to get a read like that that I really feel confident about this early.
All that said, I'm going to go re-read some stuff, and see if anything sticks out.
I understand what you're saying here (and I am familiar with your meta, hence why I did not join Crossbell on their suspicion of you). However, you have to keep in mind that this is a nine player game with six day deadlines, and we do not have the benefit of the game setup to bail us out. On the contrary, actually - this setup is quite scumsided, and I would not be surprised if they end up winning in the end here.
If this was a 12 player game with two week deadlines, then sure. But given that we need to solve for every player in the game through the Day phase, and keeping in mind the short deadline length, you need to kick it into gear earlier than usual if you're town here. (If you're scum, then go ahead and continue slanking )
Quote from Wisp »
where the hell did killjoy come from?
Both Axel and KJ feel the most detached from the game thread.
Quote from Axelrod »
In as much as I consider meta, I considered this because it was (at least at one time) seemingly an accurate way to peg Proph, i.e., he might start strong as scum, but couldn't maintain his energy/posting levels as the game went on and started to lurk more and more.
That might not be an accurate assessment of scum-Proph now, but I thought it was a reasonable thing for Last to say here.
I still think this is a pretty accurate way to peg me - I vastly enjoy being town more than being scum. Playing scum is a service you perform for the community.
Barn Wisp. I disagree with Grape's Crossbell read, but I do like how he is reading me in relation to his read on Crossbell, and his two posts above show a decent amount of nuance I wouldn't expect from scum Grape. Plus, I like how he townread me for pivoting on Wisp and then dropped his read on me in the same post. It feels like a real thought he had.
(Crossbell, Wisp, Grapefruit) town.
(killjoy, Axel, DoTA, DV, Cantrip) <- two scum in five?
Idk if I want to sheep this or if I stick with trying to get Axelrod to impress me... I think I just sheep this though since DoTA hasn't gotten better.
Vote DoTArchon
Don't bother with these kinds of posts, I ignore them.
Ehh, it's pretty fragile though.
living roomstowncore and stay there? It would make solving this game a hell of a lot easier. Wisp may be able to come too if he is willing to leave the emotional baggage at the door lmao.I know this is pre-flip interaction analysis but this really looks like theatre imo.
Would not eliminate:
Cantripmancer - Once they showed up, they did a great job of showing his towniness.
Crossbell - My role PM says this player is town.
Prophylaxis - Town GOAT.
Probably would not eliminate:
Killjoy - Townie enough when present.
Wisp - Townie enough when thinking.
Might eliminate:
DV - I want to give them the same read as Wisp but I have reservations and tinfoils. They could be towncore if I can find them.
Grapefruit21 - The more I see from them the more I remember how much they hedge, and the more I want to see them flip.
Would eliminate:
Axelrod - Needs to do something already.
DoTArchon - Needs to do something townie already.
Crossbell - 2 (Grapefruit21, DOTArchon)
DOTArchon - 2 (Prophylaxis, Crossbell)
Axelrod - 1 (D_V)
Cantripmancer - 1 (Axelrod)
Prophylaxis - 1 (Cantripmancer)
Why ask Cross and Proph instead of me?
More later, I'm just finishing work.
come back and play plz
kekw
I mean you have your own self-bias
why would I ask you, either way I found my answer on my own, its NAI on meta standpoint
anyways work
There is some engagement around page 4/5 between Axel and Crossbell but are they trying to figure each other out or just posting for the sake of having spoken to one another. I don't know if this makes them W/W or T/W but I have a gut feeling that it's not T/T.
I'll be around more tonight after work.
Pretty interested as to how Cantrip and I have.. bifurcating reads outside of the ones on Wisp/Crossbell, but I'll sort that out in X hours or so.
How could DoTA have gotten better when he hadn't posted?
I don't know that it is, though. Feels very much like town pulling a thread (from his 137) and then seeing something significant in the details of your response and jumping on it. Although...he was putting you to L-2 and then peaced out for 24 hours, so I guess it could have been an attempt to start an elimination movement without looking like he was involved. Eh...I just feel like I want more from DoTA for now.
Man, that sounds cozy. But I'm far from satisfied with Proph's responses, so...my magic 8-ball says "prognosis is grim". I'm down with Wisp, though.
That is...a weird way to conclude your statement. Your suspicion of Cross is apparent, so I get that you think they're either W/W or T/W, but why say it this way instead of just pondering whether Axel is a buddy or not? That doesn't seem to jive with your "are they trying to figure each other out" possibility, either, as that would only happen with T/T.
Up until less than 12 hours ago, we were bifurcated on Wisp as well, and I think there's a good chance you're mafia, so are you really that surprised that our reads don't align? Looking forward to you sorting and responding to my questions.
If I'm wrong about Cross being scum then I have to reevaluate my reads and that includes Cross's scum read of Axel.
So after I pointed out that Cross was scumreading Axel without having any interactions with each other, they've now got a series of posts that still don't go anywhere towards moving the game forward. And Cross has moved their vote to me.
So while there is a chance of them being T/T, I am more inclined to believe they are T/W or W/W.
I think the only people here to have possibly seen Axel's scumgame are DV and maybe Proph, and that was many years ago.
Yeah, I think I was a convenient choice for scum DoTA, with how he approached things and how he ducked out. It feels disingenuous.
As for Proph, while I don't know for sure that I want to see him in F3, I am pretty comfortable with a townread on heart and soul.
I have pointed out that part of my issue with Axel is that they haven't been doing enough to progress the game. But given that you two are likely teammates, I'm not surprised that you're trying to handwave my actual read on Axel.
(Also that lylo is 100% how you are supposed to approach final 3s as town)
Back at you compadre. Still not liking the cut of your jib. But I ended up not reading anything last night. Was cubing instead (speaking of people should join us next time we cube in the MTGS discord! It's fun!) and ran out of time.
Well that is a pivot. Hrmmm. Probably more likely to come from town!Proph just naturally changing his mind but that is jarring.
Convinced but filled with crippling self doubt is my confidence level. Ohhh wait, that's just my default state of mind.
Hrmmmm.
And there go my good feelings from the Wisp pivot. The pivot itself is definitely town indicative but where is the reevaluation of the rest of the game. It's just a complete upheaval in how he's viewing the game but the only change in prospective is to add wisp to the town block. Just feels off to me. Bleh.
Five years ago, even! How does time fly by.
-----
(As a random aside: One of my bigger pet peeves I've seen floating around recently is when people say "lunch me right now in f7/f5/whatever so I don't get mislunched in f3". This is such a stupid stance to take because if you know you're town, and there is one wolf remaining, then advocating for your own mislunch just so that you don't bear responsibility in f3 is basically you just throwing the game away. You should just work on lunching literally any other person, because that's someone's alignment you don't know, and that's a chance that you can end the game right there. If you DO end up in f3 or whatever, the game isn't lost. You might have to give it your all and/or try your hardest, but the game isn't over just because you got to f3.)
I don't really care what my fate ends up being with regards to this game. I will do my best to avoid being mislunched, and if the scum NK me, then I will feel good about myself. But I will continue to keep giving this game my all for as long as I am alive.
Just got out of work, so let me shower and read up.
Okay. I don't think I've played with scum KJ in forever (I've wolfed against him a couple of times IIRC semi-recently) so I will continue to monitor how he is playing.
The reason why I thought his post 8 was clumsy was because he didn't lead off with an RVS vote, and he did a LOT of this type of behavior when we wolfed together in Darling. (At first I thought this was indicative of wolf him, but thinking about it more critically I think it means he might be town, because I don't think he would do this type of outreach if he rolled scum again)
Post 29 still strikes me as a little weird. Not really sure what he is implying when he says "hmm, hard debate on which of you I would kill first". Does he mean in a hypothetical world where he randed scum, he would have trouble figuring out which one of me or DV to nightkill N1?
That's my reasoning behind why I thought those two posts in particular read as off at the time.
I think Cantrip's posts have been /good/, but I'm still not necessarily sure how to read him.
He really fooled me in the last game we played together (Phantom of the Opera), where all of his posts were objectively solid but he just didn't post enough, leading him to be caught by PoE at the end. I don't have a great sense of his town or scumrange, which is why I am keeping him at arm's length. (plus he's scumreading me and we have pretty differing views of the gamestate right now)
Also, can you link me your most completed town/scum games? I feel like we've played together in the past, but my memory is not great regarding games on this site because of the consecutive wolf rands I had from 2016 to.. 2020 lol.
I'm surprised because I think we have similar playstyles and ways of approaching the game. I'm also town, so I'm trying to figure out if you pushing me is you attempting to actively sort me or if you are trying to get me mislunched. (Gun to head, I think it's the former, but I know your scumgame is good - which is why I am putting you at arm's length)
----
@Grapefruit: Can I ask you why you think me pivoting on Wisp is more likely to come from town!me, rather than what Cantrip assumed? (That I am scum and that I've decided that mislunching Wisp isn't worth the time and effort)
I mean, it is entirely possible that if I drew a scum card for the first time in forever, I might try to coast on "Axel never does anything on D1 anyway" for a while, but the reason I would hypothetically be doing that would be because I do it as Town. It would be the definition of not alignment indicative, at least for me.
This doesn't mean I'm just going to shrug my shoulders D1. On the contrary, I really want to get it right, but it's also going to be really hard from where I'm sitting. I have exactly one hard data point - me Town. So anyone who expresses suspicions of me is (1) innocently mistaken, or (2) scum. I may be able to garner a few impressions there. If I can get a hard-Town read on someone else, I might get another data point, but I'm pretty unlikely to get a read like that that I really feel confident about this early.
All that said, I'm going to go re-read some stuff, and see if anything sticks out.
That might not be an accurate assessment of scum-Proph now, but I thought it was a reasonable thing for Last to say here.
Anyway I still have my same feelings about Crossbell's entrance. If I'm being generous some of the jaggedness could be coming from the roleplay, but it's spikey.
And the rainbow wall is still just rubbing me the wrong way. Like the read on me for example chooses to harp on the second vote when it seems obvious my vote was determined before the game by the cards. But then there does seem to be a reasonable thought process on reacting to my posts. Interestingly though is that it's very staccato. Could be a playstyle thing but each point about my posts is disconnected from the last. For example mentions my question to Wisp looks like busy work but then likes my explanation in #66 with some reservations. Or the emphasis on 69 being unexplained and abrupt before sort of liking my 73 where it's explained. It feels performative but I am not sure if I'm mistaking different style for scummy. To me it feels like busywork because I'd never do an ISO that way and I'd weave back to the earlier posts in my analysis and how the subsequent posts change my opinions of them. The only reason I might is if I was scum just trying to get something to stick to the wall and was writing up every post without thinking about it.
The words on DV have the same sort of staccato element to a lesser degree. But in fairness the read on Wisp is much more fluid.
So the whole thing just feels off to me just on a process level and that's before I get to the reads that just make me squint like the Axel suspicion, Dota getting scum leaned, and the content of the Wisp read which stands out in how hedgey it is compared to everything else.
The spamming with Wisp definitely does feel like an attempt to solve him. Like he clearly knows Wisp and irking Wisp and spamming with him is usually a reliable way to sort him so that's a town indication.
If Crossbell is Osie as people have speculated (I don't want to know the mystery is fun and I am truly awful at guessing Alts going 0'fer in the DLP/MU thing game) then the reads wall is much less of a red flag. 133. Well the reads part of it. I'd have to do a meta dive on Osie to see if the staccato part translates but I'm not going to do a meta dive based upon speculation that I don't really have an opinion on.
The Axel Meta analysis doesn't give me great vibes. It's very arbitrary with the 100 post cut off and fact that in particular 80s feelgood was similarly joking. I get that it was about the switch flipping to serious but it doesn't go into the context of the game at all. The comparison to Feel Good 80s in particular is pinging me. That game was so comparably jokey that I think it completely undermines their point. And I think Crossbell knows it too throwing my quote in at the end talking about how the joking is a character break. Definitely agenda vibes here.
The team sort in 155 is just incomprehensible to me. I have no clue how any Cantrip teams were eliminated at that point. Cantrip had 1 post at that point. 1.
I think this might be confirmation bias because I've been scum reading Cross through this ISO but the friendly meme'ing with Proph and DV feels like if not a pocket attempt and attempt to get in their good graces.
198 is sort of what I mean. It's a kind of pointless post other than to agree with Proph. He doesn't really use that distinction to push Wisp or Axel. He's pushing Axel but that is never really his point.
The pivot to Dota has a whiff of OMGUS to it. Not in the traditional sense of a knee jerk reaction but in a wanting to build a wagon over the vote. The move off Axel and onto Dota just feels off to me. I can't point to any specific post but the way they beg DV to go with them and then follow Proph instead after DV votes with Cross is just more of the appeasement I was getting at.
ISO done.
So major thoughts are the intial tone felt off but that improved throughout the game. Probably was mostly early Roleplay missing for me. The readswall and team sort are agenda'y red flags to me. As is the intial Axel push. Then the buddying up to Proph and DV just doesn't feel like town core building to me (given the different handling of Wisp for example).
Vote on Crossbell sticking and increasing in intensity.
Also, again, in as much as meta is a thing, I don't even think it's accurate? Not to offend Wisp, but I almost never see him as "proactive." He seems extremely reactive. And also incredibly random.
also proph takes all his games seriously, but enthusiasm isn't something he can keep up with. Consistency wise, I personally think he is a lot better with. Its definitely not as easy to catch him on a macro level anymore.
I've come to the conclusion that completely abrupt reevaluations are townie in a vacuum. Context obviously matters but mafia will be worried about their progression seeming unnatural while town will just follow their line of thought.
Though I now have other concerns about your reevaluation but I still don't think you make sense with Crossbell so I'm less concerned than I was when I made that post.
In general, this early, getting "they seem like they wouldn't be scum-buddies together" vibes is a pretty reasonable way to proceed.
And now I'm going to go do something else!
Townish! Wisp/KJ
Less! Proph
Anyone else who posted didn't merit a remark yet.
Town
Grape
Wisp
DV
KJ/Axel/Dota/Cantrip
Proph
Crossbell
Scum
Time to spend some time on the null bunch.
This seems not fully chased out to me. Crossbell's wall has been probably the most talked about event in this game and generated some strong opinions. I can see the process of it being town+ for Osie but I struggle to see the setting it aside part for anyone else. Or if he thinks it's not indicative not digging into other people's rather more zealous reactions down the line (like my own). That just doesn't happen and it just feels a bit isolated to me. Some points for a Cross/Axel unalignment though.
This on the other hand looks pretty solid to me. It's a reasonable call out on a difference in meta interpretation and that follow through interaction I felt was lacking in the previous post I highlighted. He's not just viewing in isolation here and you can see the effort to tug at people's opinions and sort things that was lacking.
If this was a 12 player game with two week deadlines, then sure. But given that we need to solve for every player in the game through the Day phase, and keeping in mind the short deadline length, you need to kick it into gear earlier than usual if you're town here. (If you're scum, then go ahead and continue slanking )
Both Axel and KJ feel the most detached from the game thread.
I still think this is a pretty accurate way to peg me - I vastly enjoy being town more than being scum. Playing scum is a service you perform for the community.
Barn Wisp. I disagree with Grape's Crossbell read, but I do like how he is reading me in relation to his read on Crossbell, and his two posts above show a decent amount of nuance I wouldn't expect from scum Grape. Plus, I like how he townread me for pivoting on Wisp and then dropped his read on me in the same post. It feels like a real thought he had.
(Crossbell, Wisp, Grapefruit) town.
(killjoy, Axel, DoTA, DV, Cantrip) <- two scum in five?