I tried to play the game last night, but MTGS kept throwing error messages, so I gave up and went to bed.
Caught up, ready to rock, let's get this bread.
Crossbell: I know high interaction doesn't automatically equate to town, but I always lean that way. Some general game solving vibes, too. I don't really get the suspicion on Axel. 98 might be a little try-hard, but, as has been noted, the Proph roleplay may be a factor there. Maybe I've got them higher than I ought just because they correctly noted that my absence was because of the weekend. If I'm right in my suspicions of who they are, though, they're solidly in their town meta. Certainly don't see why they're L-2. Town.
@Cross: Can you point to differences in other games from Axel? I'm just getting standard Axel vibes so far.
Killjoy: Pretty light in content, but that last post (150) is pretty solidly town paranoid KJ. Townlean.
DoTArchon: Feels like he wants to solve, especially with his insight into KJ's mindset. Townlean.
Wisp: I think a telling point here is the carelessness. Scum Wisp likes to pretend that they're careless, but they rarely actually post things that garner serious attention beyond "Why is Wisp the way Wisp be?" I'm not getting faked carelessness here (other than the drunkposting, but drunkposting always feels fake to me.) Mild townlean.
Axel: Not much here, but certainly not getting the "awkward" vibes that Cross is concerned about. Still null.
Grape: Some mindmeld on the Easy Breezy Beautiful Whisper read, and I like the long version of 73, but the TLDR feels waffly. Of course, it's coming from the Hedgelord, so I'll take it with a grain of salt and wait and see. Null.
DV: I hate reading DV. Scumlean.
Proph: The energy and engagement give me generally good vibes, but the progression from 22, where he says he will easily be able to read Wisp, to 30, where he votes Wisp for "clumsy" posts feels weird, especially with Proph saying it's for Wisp's "early" posts.
@Proph: Can you show me Wisp being "clumsy", as you note in 30? In their "early" posts only, please.
Do you think Wisp right now is engaged and relaxed? I think his posting has been quite clumsy and.. unconfident, for lack of a better term. He seems to be annoyed with both how I and Crossbell are treating him, which is understandable.
You seem to be listing Wisp's annoyance with you and Cross as a point against them, but then you say it's understandable?
[quote=me]It's way too small of a sample size but I can't help but town read engaged relaxed Wisp. He has so much trouble replicating his breezy style as a wolf and I think it would have been easier if he'd been coming back from a hiatus and just bursting with excitement to play again.
Do you think Wisp right now is engaged and relaxed? I think his posting has been quite clumsy and.. unconfident, for lack of a better term. He seems to be annoyed with both how I and Crossbell are treating him, which is understandable.
[quote]
He's annoyed but there is no undercurrent of fear or being uncomfortable. He's peeved (which is normal for wisp) without being on edge.
@Dota Welcome to the right side of history. Can you talk about the KJ distancing read though. I'm really confused what you think the significance of it is. KJ is more likely to be town because he pointed out an interaction could be distancing? Are you an MTG player? Because Axel is right that Time Walk and Ancestral really do massively overshadow Timetwister to a massive degree. So if anything I'd put KJ making a point of it more likely to KJ trying to generate an interaction than anything to do with Axel. Now I'm not going to scum read him over it because that would be ridiculous, but I think I'd put it as a tiny unaligned between KJ and Axel if KJ were to flip scum. Think it's entirely meaningless from Axel's side though. His flip would mean nothing towards KJs.
@Cantrip I don't get your town read on crossbell at all. You only added two details beyond engaged and solvey=town. The first was the Proph roleplay was a factor in other people (DV and myself notably) scum reading the wall post and you having a guess to the identity and projecting that to the town meta. I have a hard time seeing how that equals a top town read.
@Cross: Can you point to differences in other games from Axel? I'm just getting standard Axel vibes so far.
In explaining it this way, it shifts it from an "Axel feels awkward" toneread to a meta read now... I don't like that, and anyone reading this is probably going to be like "What the hell?" but here goes...
I wasn't taking a dig at you. Crossbell had just got asked by two different people practically back-to-back to rank something on a scale, and they were different scales. So, I thought I would add my own.
In comparison, Axelrod within the first 100 posts in various games. He's still jokey, but he starts taking things seriously earlier. Not leading, but still more serious.
Quote from Axelrod »
I am glad Vaimes is Town! I do not think Killjoy is Townier! LW could be anything!
Vote: tomsloger
Good game folks.
Quote from Axelrod »
Who's pocket? Is it my pocket? Or LW's?
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Vaimes »
Oh, yours.
I could never be insincere with you, but the gloves are always off with Wispy.
That's good. You'll be safe there.
Quote from Axelrod »
Definitely concerned about all these lurkers though.
Quote from Axelrod »
The point was to make you smile, and bring some small measure of joy into an otherwise cold and harsh world, especially in these troubling times.
I am sorry I failed you.
Quote from Axelrod »
I find myself questioning your sense of humor, Last.
Quote from Axelrod »
Would he be "genuinely" confused and annoyed if he were scum?
Quote from Axelrod »
Man, this is too early to already be begging off.
Unvote
Vote: Grapefruit21
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Lastwhisper »
voting me is like a meme at this point and I don;t think my alignment actually affects how I would read Axel's opening
or overlooking a joke, that I still dont get
Well, see, I was calling out the lurkers less than a hour into the game when only 3 people had posted. And that's silly, because, of course, you can't be a lurker less than an hour into the game.
See, it's funny.
Ha ha.
Quote from Axelrod »
Now, my own poem, as this day begins.
You might wonder, is this some secret claim?
Axelrod is a tricky fellow.
He is known to play this particular game.
Not this time, he boldly asserts!
You shall have no messages hidden from your sight.
Axelrod is playing it straight.
Here’s to a good game, and to all, goodnight!
Quote from Axelrod »
I'm trying to decide if ZDS being mistaken about Rodemy's claim is a town-slip or not.
Probably not?
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Vaimes »
Rod, ZDS, Silver, and Proph are all town. Grape is scum getting an early we're-totally-scumbuddies interaction with Proph. Axel hemming and hawing over a supposed townslip is an act. The third wolf hasn't posted yet.
Bookmark this post.
I will!
So you can have your wrongness rubbed in your face at the end.
Wrongness about me. I have no idea about those other guys.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Proph »
Just gonna call this the "Proph's Popping Bottles Theory" - just gonna take stock of the lowest posters after RVS and see how many of them are scum postgame.
Jackrito
CropCircles
Highroller
Grapefruit21
Axelrod
dkingsland/JT
This is probably simple probability but 1-2 wolves here i guess?
I don't even understand what your saying here. Is RVS over? And these are the "lowest" posters so far?
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Proph »
Just a fun thought experiment that was somewhat successful last game I did it in (even though we lost).
After RVS has ended, post the bottom half of posters postcount wise and check back and see how many of them are scum at the end.
And yeah, I think Silver's vote on ZDS ended RVS.
Well, you won't find anyone more prone to believing lurking = scummy than me, but this is like, way too early to even remotely be considering that.
Quote from Axelrod »
I have a feeling I should up my meme game for this. And by "up" I mean develop one at all. Where do people go for their memes and how do I post them? A quick tutorial from someone pretty please?
I will
Vote: Highroller before he claims.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from TerRaine »
It is a place called "google" and it is mysterious and vast.
Vote ZeDorkSlipeur
I am asking to be hand fed here. New things scare me.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from TerRaine »
Not my kink. Pass.
Well, you're no fun.
Quote from Axelrod »
Technically, original Star Trek is not 80s....
Quote from Axelrod »
Sheesh, the Pine Treks are 00s. Get on point. I will allow 80s Trek movies.
Also, I am sad. Because google does not, in fact, tell me how to do those posts.
Quote from Axelrod »
[Broken Image Link]
Quote from Axelrod »
I r a genius.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Axelrod »
Success!
Quote from Axelrod »
This could get bad.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from Axelrod »
I almost used a Donald Trump one.
Quote from Axelrod »
Quote from TerRaine »
.....
None of that.
Better!
Quote from Slothful »
Anyways fellas, let's all stop by the sock-hop and get an eggream on our way to the roller derby.
1978.
Quote from Axelrod »
Actually I have realized my last one was 1990.
/fail
He then started actually posting content once he started getting scumread for it.
From this game soon after:
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
giffing and wanting to hang out and fluff is NAI, but this is a character break for Axel.
In all three of these games, he started playing more seriously before the 100 post point, and as of his next post or two after the 100 post point, he was solidly in the game. In none of them was he entirely jokey with not a single bit of focused purpose and interaction. This feels like an opening made to look like his other openings but a bit more fake and awkward, without even poking out feelers to contribute to the game. It's also just generally less active.
Going back to Axel's ISO, his posts feel kinda empty. It sorta feels like an actor playing Axel, but not very well.
If I remove the people I currently believe to be unlikely to be mafia out of that group to get down to a 3p PoE (in a 7-2 game, we have 2 miselims, so a 4p PoE works, but I'mma give some breathing room and rely on self-confidence to go for 3p), I end up with:
Axel-DoTA
Axel-DV
DoTA-DV
Out of the three of these, I'm thinking Axel-DoTA is the most likely, but DV is certainly staying on my watchlist.
I think I definitely want to wait a bit on being certain on the mid-group of Cantrip/Grape/KJ/Wisp. If I can get at least one other townread besides Proph this game rather than a bunch of townleans, I'll be happier on this solve.
That Proph town lean is stretching it, by a lot in my opinion. He still has not towned it up, and I probably might not even like him, till I see his dead body lol
Team sorting is kinda silly this early, but the thing I'm at is, I don't think both you and Proph can be wolves together.
Maybe if Proph finds a wolf lean that's not me, that I can evaluate, I might think about moving him up
Maybe if Proph finds a wolf lean that's not me, that I can evaluate, I might think about moving him up
Meh. Do you have a read that isn't OMGUS?
there is 0 omgus about that read, also omgus is just a cop out statement, I've stated my quells against Proph, and his posts, as colorful you might think they are, don't mean anything to me
Anyways I appreciate your axel post, I'll take a better look once I get home, just about to head home from work
Why did you like this paragraph given that what I said was a bunch of IIoA/information instead of analysis? This is what I said:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
And mountainous/vanilla games IMO it's important to get conversation started early - because we have no mechanical information to rely on. We are also only working with six IRL days. The setup is already scumsided as is, and I want us to make the best use of our game time if possible.
This statement may be easy to agree with, but I don't really see how it gives you further insight into my alignment.
----
I like how you charted your thought process behind your Wisp read; I have a different perspective on his first couple of posts but I'll get into that after I've finished catching up. I don't think Grape has done much of anything alignment indicative thus far - I'll try to sort him as the Day progresses.
I think DV is playing very intentionally curt, and I remember I could find him as town in past games by watching how he explains his thought process and mindset. So far, he's mostly tunneling me and you. I want him to hopefully disengage a bit and focus more on the other players OR talk to/engage with us since we both are pretty active posters at the moment.
IMO, you're jumping the gun with Axel, and I think his alignment should become clearer as Day 1 progresses. Not sure how this will manifest in this game, but the Axel I know isn't a huge Day 1 poster and generally locks things up more towards the mid/endgame. It's been a long while since he randed wolf, but I don't think his wolf game is of particular note? I'm pretty sure his last wolf game was Amistarian III, and his team kinda lurked until they lost. So unless he's wolfed offsite or something, or gotten better at wolfing since that game, I would wait and see WRT his alignment.
So I went into this wall expecting to critique a fair bit of Crossbell's process but I can sort of see where they're coming from. I'll take a look at their more recent big wallpost in a bit.
Crossbell, are you able to point me to any games where solving for teams pre alignment-flip have won town the game? I don't generally find it to be a very useful exercise most of the time.
Quote from Wisp »
i am curious where u've seen me engage in RVS to think its that weird for me, to not engage in RVS? i don't recall even engaging in RVS in the FoL game
I don't have a great grasp of all of your recent games, but in the two town ones I checked you voted pretty early and in the two scum ones I checked you were gunshy about voting/did not vote early. Meta reads are kinda *****, but it's something I'm taking into account.
Quote from Wisp »
i mean u are getting betterish, maybe I am just not used to you being wrong on me, so it just feels more malicious then it is?
I mean, for starters, I literally *do not know* what your alignment is. I'm pretty sure in the past couple games we've played, I knew what your alignment was (either because I was scum, or I replaced in and you were pretty obv town/cleared off of scum interactions)
Quote from Crossbell »
Yeah, that's a good post from DV ig.
Like, I'm really feeling the energy.
How is DV's post where they confirmed their vote on you a "good post"? Don't really see what's so energetic about it.
Quote from Crossbell »
Like everything is alignment indicative lmao.
Yes, but I'm also not really a believe in reading into scraps when people will provide more content for us to read them off of if we either wait or prod them to do so. Reading people off of scant RVS posts is acceptable if you're like.. playing in a mash, but this mountainous game can't be any more different.
Quote from Crossbell »
It's entirely an energy read. I think if you were a wolf here, you'd be a bit less gung ho or carefree. You'd also not need to be sorting Wisp, and since at this point I'm pretty sure you know who I am...
Fair. I would be pretty exhausted from multiple multiple wolf rands most likely, and that would probably seep into my play.
Quote from Crossbell »
Nah, the trying to draw blood from a stone with an early readwall is entirely me playing in a standard manner for me. (As either alignment.)
Okay. I don't really recall ever playing with you much (besides [redacted game], where I was scum), so this is new to me.
I think his start is definitely missing something, but he has been trying to tsundere the game like crazy, particularly at the start of games, and this seems like he's doing that. The point you made about the vote is a point against him, but the way he's responding to scumreads with frustration feels slightly townie. I brought him up to a townlean since I think he is legit confused by the two of us being in the thread, particularly once I started actually imitating you a bit more to see what came of it, and I'm not as sure that he would express it in the same way as mafia.
I think him being confused by the two of us being in the thread is a "not wolf with either me or you" read - not necessarily something that points to him being town.
What does "tsundere the game like crazy" mean? I know what those terms mean but I've never seen them used in a mafia game before.
Fair point on him responding to scumreads with frustration as being townie. I remember in Darling he kinda just shrugged scumreads off on him. I'll have to consider this when drafting my post on him.
----
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
Quote from Wisp »
I couldn't even find this post till you told me the post number, that's how hard it was for me to notice. There is nothing the same about those two posts, ones a simple line, and the other is trying to make a joke
They may be different in how they're presented, but the core message I feel is the same (which is a one-line post calling themselves town). Shrug.
Why did you like this paragraph given that what I said was a bunch of IIoA/information instead of analysis? This is what I said:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
And mountainous/vanilla games IMO it's important to get conversation started early - because we have no mechanical information to rely on. We are also only working with six IRL days. The setup is already scumsided as is, and I want us to make the best use of our game time if possible.
This statement may be easy to agree with, but I don't really see how it gives you further insight into my alignment.
I think the timing at which you chose to make this statement and the manner in which it was made as a conclusion is a good look.
IMO, you're jumping the gun with Axel, and I think his alignment should become clearer as Day 1 progresses. Not sure how this will manifest in this game, but the Axel I know isn't a huge Day 1 poster and generally locks things up more towards the mid/endgame. It's been a long while since he randed wolf, but I don't think his wolf game is of particular note? I'm pretty sure his last wolf game was Amistarian III, and his team kinda lurked until they lost. So unless he's wolfed offsite or something, or gotten better at wolfing since that game, I would wait and see WRT his alignment.
Sure, I am pushing that a bit harder than I might otherwise for reasons. I think either of the other choices I might push for info are less interesting right now.
So I went into this wall expecting to critique a fair bit of Crossbell's process but I can sort of see where they're coming from. I'll take a look at their more recent big wallpost in a bit.
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
Killjoy: Pretty light in content, but that last post (150) is pretty solidly town paranoid KJ. Townlean.
Talk to me about why you think 150 is more likely to come from town paranoid killjoy? I'm looking at post 150 and while I do think it's a good callout (because DV jumping straight into assuming inside info on Crossbell's declaration of town on me is a weird assumption given the open setup) I don't see how it sharply indicates town killjoy.
Quote from Cantripmaner »
DV: I hate reading DV. Scumlean.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Quote from Cantripmancer »
Proph: The energy and engagement give me generally good vibes, but the progression from 22, where he says he will easily be able to read Wisp, to 30, where he votes Wisp for "clumsy" posts feels weird, especially with Proph saying it's for Wisp's "early" posts.
@Proph: Can you show me Wisp being "clumsy", as you note in 30? In their "early" posts only, please.
I think post 8, post 19, post 25, and some extent post 29 are indicative of him being reactive/clumsy. I'm used to town Wisp being more proactive and not being afraid to voice out his opinions or to vote early. I would also feel like he would be more critical or dogged in his pursuit of me if he was town. Right now, it feels like he's treating me with kid gloves.
Quote from Cantripmancer »
You seem to be listing Wisp's annoyance with you and Cross as a point against them, but then you say it's understandable?
At the time I made that post, I thought it was understandable for him to be annoyed at being pressured by Crossbell and I as either alignment. I'd be annoyed if I was being hounded by two clones of mine, for example.
Crossbell had a good point where him getting frustrated with dealing with both of us might point to him being town, though - but I still having a lot of concerns/misgivings about Wisp that I will hopefully get the chance to air out... right now.
---
I see where Crossbell is coming from wrt Axel but again, I still want to take the "wait and see" approach, given what I know about Axel's meta. My misgivings on Wisp are also based on tone.
Crossbell, are you able to point me to any games where solving for teams pre alignment-flip have won town the game? I don't generally find it to be a very useful exercise most of the time.
Idk, I'm trying for the early solve so it's mostly just one shingle in a roof.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Quote from Crossbell »
Yeah, that's a good post from DV ig.
Like, I'm really feeling the energy.
How is DV's post where they confirmed their vote on you a "good post"? Don't really see what's so energetic about it.
It's not that it's energetic, it's that it doesn't feel like he's forcing the anger in his soul.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Quote from Crossbell »
Like everything is alignment indicative lmao.
Yes, but I'm also not really a believe in reading into scraps when people will provide more content for us to read them off of if we either wait or prod them to do so. Reading people off of scant RVS posts is acceptable if you're like.. playing in a mash, but this mountainous game can't be any more different.
With 2 miselims and 2 scum, this is effectively a micro, my home turf. Solving the micros quickly and off of hard and fast worldbuilding is usually more effective than hoping you're going to get a ton of information out of two and a half day phases maximum, IMO.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Quote from Crossbell »
Nah, the trying to draw blood from a stone with an early readwall is entirely me playing in a standard manner for me. (As either alignment.)
Okay. I don't really recall ever playing with you much (besides [redacted game], where I was scum), so this is new to me.
I don't know that we have played very often. And probably the last time you'd have looked closely at my play is years ago. We just chat a lot.
I think his start is definitely missing something, but he has been trying to tsundere the game like crazy, particularly at the start of games, and this seems like he's doing that. The point you made about the vote is a point against him, but the way he's responding to scumreads with frustration feels slightly townie. I brought him up to a townlean since I think he is legit confused by the two of us being in the thread, particularly once I started actually imitating you a bit more to see what came of it, and I'm not as sure that he would express it in the same way as mafia.
I think him being confused by the two of us being in the thread is a "not wolf with either me or you" read - not necessarily something that points to him being town.
Ehh, how he approaches it is the important part to my read.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
What does "tsundere the game like crazy" mean? I know what those terms mean but I've never seen them used in a mafia game before.
"It's not like I want to mentally invest in this game or anything, baka!" - Wisp, over and over again.
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
well I think Crossbell deserves a good reread
on a micro level, his early was pretty wolfy even to me, which why I called that early mindmeld with DV
but on a macro level, they are leagues better I think
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
All right people, I’m here. I already told Highroller I’m mostly unavailable to post during workdays, and this site is blocked as well, so it’s nothing or maybe I can sneak a phone post. Otherwise I’m going to be strictly evenings and weekends for a while.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
It's not that it's energetic, it's that it doesn't feel like he's forcing the anger in his soul.
This is a severe misunderstanding of my scum rage game play. Typically as scum I argue about pendantic ***** to appear playing the game and then get annoyed by players ignoring my correct statements.
Its likely hard for players to seperate that from my town game play, because my town play focused on specific things but for me it was always with a purpose. Maybe not a purpose that other players understood, but a purpose none the less. Largely my town reads/gameplay in the last 5(? more maybe) years hyper evolved into me taking an active role to get players to respond to me to see these specific things/meta reads and that turned into me largely bullying people/becoming more toxic as I took the game too seriously.
My scum games I'd just get mad because people would say that something I did was a scum tell or something really dumb and then I'd just use that as a cover for my aimlessness which is in my opinion always been my biggest scum tell. Really though what I'm trying to get across is that it wasn't fake, it was always anger misplaced as it may have been.
I see where Crossbell is coming from wrt Axel but again, I still want to take the "wait and see" approach, given what I know about Axel's meta. My misgivings on Wisp are also based on tone.
Yeah, Wisp is missing that je ne sais quoi, hence no core yet, but I'm not yet convinced that they're not just self-restraining out of positive motives. Iff they start sorting, there exists tonal verisimilitude that does not present through their wolf game lol.
Axel - gets to be below DV for claiming to be town in his post, I like those things, fight me.
Not only will I not fight you, I will Town-lean you for it! So there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
@Crossbell
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
I see where Crossbell is coming from wrt Axel but again, I still want to take the "wait and see" approach, given what I know about Axel's meta. My misgivings on Wisp are also based on tone.
Yeah, Wisp is missing that je ne sais quoi, hence no core yet, but I'm not yet convinced that they're not just self-restraining out of positive motives. Iff they start sorting, there exists tonal verisimilitude that does not present through their wolf game lol.
So this is my main misgiving about Wisp. Not exactly sure if he's like LOCK SCUM, but I want to put my grievances out in the open for people to talk about.
My main concern with him is the "not voting in RVS" thing. This is very elementary/low sample size/basic meta analysis, but I did some cursory meta research on Wisp and found that he voted pretty early and used his vote early in two town games I looked at (Ballade and Mostly Seinen, while he waited on his vote in two of his recent scum games (Tarot Mafia and Darling in the FRANXX).
If you look at his ISOs in his town games, he votes early, but more than that, his tone is just way more self confident and self-assured. I'll just repost the first five posts from each game as an example:
Town games:
Quote from Wisp »
hi
time to see if I can put my money where my mouth is, and see if I can actually pace myself after finally rolling town in forever
start off with some info on everyone I can remember
Trisscar - very meta gamey, their alignment depends on how contextually they look good
Killmatronix - nothing, played with him a few times, don't think they have lots of forum experience
Cantripmancer - typical boomer, his posts can be far and in between, but you can usually tell his alignment based on his context when he does post
CBangz - can't remember anything specific
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - a combination of tone and content dictates their alignment
Rhand - ignore most of his early game, common mafia tropes don't really work when reading him, keep an eye on his progression
Silvercrys - not a high poster, but can usually get his alignment via his content relatively early, will see if this holds true this game
Wisp - Top Town
Windward - Played with them a bit, can't remember
Gorta - No town game experience, but when he was mafia, his reads were pretty poor, so look out for that
Marshmallow Marshall - tonal/Volume player most of the time (I think he falls under the same playstyle as rhand early on, and might continue the trend, of making pushes that look forced, so again, very contextual here)
Marluxion - tonal/Volume player most of the time (his town game tends to be super obvious)
Toodles for now
Quote from Wisp »
Trisscar: Meta gamey was the wrong word here, I meant to say, super mechanical, but they can usually make good posts that don't incorporate that
last time they were a wolf on MTGS, almost all of their posts encompassed some sort of mechanical thought, and that dictated how they played the game
Quote from Wisp »
uhhm that's probably just by default because a lot of people post less on mtgs (I have correctly called out all your town games recently, I believe)
also ok boomer
@Windward
ohh ya, you were pretty obvious town there
@Marluxion
have fun with that
Quote from Wisp »
Vote Windward
Just a place holder vote, or is it?
For those that don't know how to vote, that's how you do it. Same format for unvoting except replace the name with unvote.
You can post a vc at any point using the vote count button near the reply box, you can also iso anyone and see post counts, via the ... At the top right, and clicking who replied? There should also be an iso button on the top right of any individuals post
@Marluxion
Yes to both questions
Quote from Wisp »
Don't really know what gives u either of those impressions? Whether he becomes LHF or not depends solely on him, and his alignment
I do not recall anything about the specifics of his reads, only that they were shallow given the length and timing. He was relatively good at talking himself
out of a pickle even though I kept pressuring him.
@Silvercrys
Honestly, think of him as a less wordy Bessie I guess?
as for anything else to add, I got nothing, the question I wanted to be asked, has already been asked, so I will wait for an answer
P.S: You have a misunderstanding of how exactly I play as a wolf, if you think I am playing 4D chess this early, or ever for that matter
Quote from Wisp »
when did you out your alt??
also hi
dont expect much from me day 1
First step is finding out if Zone is town or not
Vote Zone Q11
Quote from Wisp »
@Crossbell
Nice to see u rolled town
(this is referring to me, not the Crossbell in this game)
Quote from Wisp »
I mean giving that I'm going to take a more backseat approach to this game, it probably will be
Quote from Wisp »
Can we pressure Zone more?
Quote from Wisp »
Fins is not someone I am interested in voting day 1, given reasons that are [redacted]
Scum games:
Quote from Wisp »
Hi
Quote from Wisp »
Idk do you? I'm wisp or wiisp pretty much everywhere.
Anyways I'm stuck at work pretty much the rest rof the day
Someone remind me what the priestess card does?
Quote from Wisp »
@Marluxion
I expect you to tunnel someone if you are town, make me proud
Expect me to try again at not spamming, but that will depend if I get pressure on me or not, which usually happens
Quote from Wisp »
Ok just to be clear, any event card that is shown means nobody has that role, correct?
Quote from Wisp »
Lmao do I know you? I do not recall the name, unless you use another never else where?
Quote from Wisp »
@Grspefruit
@Axelrod
Personally I still think 2 weeks is just too much, and we never seen to do anything with it. But obviously idk your schedules
I do expect Axelrod to not be a big voice until something catches his eye, I know that is how town!Axel played in that recent mafia game on MTGS, but i haven't seen his wolf game once, so idk
Quote from Wisp »
Hi
Quote from Wisp »
Pretty sure zone is one of the world wolves, that’s all I got
Quote from Wisp »
Ohh I know very much how to handle Zone, and the read will probably change, but I get nervous vibes from his entrance
Quote from Wisp »
Hol up, I didn’t see u join, hi
Quote from Wisp »
I mean the meta I am aware of is, that he is relatively nervous as a wolf, and that he is a loose cannon as town. Just pressure him and you can probably figure it out
Quote from Wisp »
Guess we will see then
Quote from Wisp »
Noted, I haven’t had very recent experience with him, so this may be true
Anyways back to work
I might be cherry-picking town or scum games here from Wisp because I'm not the most familiar with his meta, but just read the posts I've quoted. He's more self assertive and confident as town. Plus, look how he just lock-towns me in Mostly Seinen II. I feel if he was town, he wouldn't be treating me with kid gloves like the way he is doing now. I feel like he would be voting me and being way more comfortable voicing his concerns about me, rather than what he is doing now. (saying that I haven't "towned it up" and saying that I'm not natural, without voting me)
The tonal difference is there I feel, and I think his tone this game matches his scum self more than his town self.
It's not that it's energetic, it's that it doesn't feel like he's forcing the anger in his soul.
This is a severe misunderstanding of my scum rage game play. Typically as scum I argue about pendantic ***** to appear playing the game and then get annoyed by players ignoring my correct statements.
Its likely hard for players to seperate that from my town game play, because my town play focused on specific things but for me it was always with a purpose. Maybe not a purpose that other players understood, but a purpose none the less. Largely my town reads/gameplay in the last 5(? more maybe) years hyper evolved into me taking an active role to get players to respond to me to see these specific things/meta reads and that turned into me largely bullying people/becoming more toxic as I took the game too seriously.
My scum games I'd just get mad because people would say that something I did was a scum tell or something really dumb and then I'd just use that as a cover for my aimlessness which is in my opinion always been my biggest scum tell. Really though what I'm trying to get across is that it wasn't fake, it was always anger misplaced as it may have been.
Nah, it's just an incredibly simplistic wording of your scum rage game play.
But especially if I see you get mad, I can usually tell the difference, in my experience.
That said, I'd rather everyone enjoy the game, yourself included. So instead I'm just handwaving you as getting there eventually since you'll either towncore or slip in the end if experience with you means anything.
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
Really? I thought it would make more sense to make something up about your mother and father.
I mean, make something up about your mouthy blather. Sorry about that.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
Really? I thought it would make more sense to make something up about your mother and father.
I mean, make something up about your mouthy blather. Sorry about that.
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Sure, but I'm not that predictable, lmao.
I mean there is really only two ways to play scum.
You either lock in reads and don't shift.
Or you waffle hard and leave every possible out you can to jump onto a wagon.
Yes you can color in between, but its really one of these two extremes. You can't outplay this inevitability.
Axelrod - Needed to explain their RVS vote. Feels generally a bit awkward; possibly their first scumgame in a while? The only talk in the game they really do after that point is still playing defense, it seems. Not a good start for one of the better town players on the site. Scumread.
I'm wondering what part of my RVS vote you thought that I thought I needed to explain? That I was going to vote for a Blue card? Why I was voting for a Blue card? Or how I chose between Timewalk and Ancestral?
And is the "defense" you are speaking of when I answered someone's not very serious question with a not very serious answer?
I mean, seems like you are reeeeeeally stretching to try and reach this point.
I was also going to say I have no idea who Crossbell is and was not going be spending any brain power at all trying to figure it out, when he said this:
Can you elaborate a bit more on how you have a solid scumread on Axel without having engaged with them once so far?
I've seen a lot of their games and talked with them some personally and am just feeling that they are awkward here, as I had explained. I feel like you aren't really taking my actual explanation into account in terms of my thoughts on Axelrod.
Which actually narrows it down to, um...one person?
Sooooo, 'sup?
Sorry I still haven't done the thing. I am terrible.
Private Mod Note
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
Really? I thought it would make more sense to make something up about your mother and father.
I mean, make something up about your mouthy blather. Sorry about that.
I'm wondering what part of my RVS vote you thought that I thought I needed to explain? That I was going to vote for a Blue card? Why I was voting for a Blue card? Or how I chose between Timewalk and Ancestral?
And is the "defense" you are speaking of when I answered someone's not very serious question with a not very serious answer?
I mean, seems like you are reeeeeeally stretching to try and reach this point.
The fact and manner in which you chose between Time Walk and Ancestral. But yes, I want to push you out of your comfort zone and make you get serious early on.
Quote from "Axelrod" »
Which actually narrows it down to, um...one person?
Sooooo, 'sup?
Sorry I still haven't done the thing. I am terrible.
I can truthfully say that I don't know what you're talking about.
Ehh, they were different motives and directions but Proph still has a point that on a simple level, which is all that anyone has at that point, they both include a statement which is essentially "I'm town."
Hey DV, I'd like to know why you think Crossbell potentially has inside info for what is obviously a reaction to Proph's play? That post is obviously "Proph is town [based on something unsaid as of yet] but you jumped straight to inside info/discrediting. What gives there?
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Sure, but I'm not that predictable, lmao.
I mean there is really only two ways to play scum.
You either lock in reads and don't shift.
Or you waffle hard and leave every possible out you can to jump onto a wagon.
Yes you can color in between, but its really one of these two extremes. You can't outplay this inevitability.
Meh?
Also, would you say this applies to any alignment? Also calling my reads weak is a pretty surface-level attack. I might even call it a "weak read."
Caught up, ready to rock, let's get this bread.
Crossbell: I know high interaction doesn't automatically equate to town, but I always lean that way. Some general game solving vibes, too. I don't really get the suspicion on Axel. 98 might be a little try-hard, but, as has been noted, the Proph roleplay may be a factor there. Maybe I've got them higher than I ought just because they correctly noted that my absence was because of the weekend. If I'm right in my suspicions of who they are, though, they're solidly in their town meta. Certainly don't see why they're L-2. Town.
@Cross: Can you point to differences in other games from Axel? I'm just getting standard Axel vibes so far.
Killjoy: Pretty light in content, but that last post (150) is pretty solidly town paranoid KJ. Townlean.
DoTArchon: Feels like he wants to solve, especially with his insight into KJ's mindset. Townlean.
Wisp: I think a telling point here is the carelessness. Scum Wisp likes to pretend that they're careless, but they rarely actually post things that garner serious attention beyond "Why is Wisp the way Wisp be?" I'm not getting faked carelessness here (other than the drunkposting, but drunkposting always feels fake to me.) Mild townlean.
Axel: Not much here, but certainly not getting the "awkward" vibes that Cross is concerned about. Still null.
Grape: Some mindmeld on the Easy Breezy Beautiful Whisper read, and I like the long version of 73, but the TLDR feels waffly. Of course, it's coming from the Hedgelord, so I'll take it with a grain of salt and wait and see. Null.
DV: I hate reading DV. Scumlean.
Proph: The energy and engagement give me generally good vibes, but the progression from 22, where he says he will easily be able to read Wisp, to 30, where he votes Wisp for "clumsy" posts feels weird, especially with Proph saying it's for Wisp's "early" posts.
@Proph: Can you show me Wisp being "clumsy", as you note in 30? In their "early" posts only, please.
Also, I don't understand this:
You seem to be listing Wisp's annoyance with you and Cross as a point against them, but then you say it's understandable?
Vote: Prophylaxis
Do you think Wisp right now is engaged and relaxed? I think his posting has been quite clumsy and.. unconfident, for lack of a better term. He seems to be annoyed with both how I and Crossbell are treating him, which is understandable.
[quote]
He's annoyed but there is no undercurrent of fear or being uncomfortable. He's peeved (which is normal for wisp) without being on edge.
@Dota Welcome to the right side of history. Can you talk about the KJ distancing read though. I'm really confused what you think the significance of it is. KJ is more likely to be town because he pointed out an interaction could be distancing? Are you an MTG player? Because Axel is right that Time Walk and Ancestral really do massively overshadow Timetwister to a massive degree. So if anything I'd put KJ making a point of it more likely to KJ trying to generate an interaction than anything to do with Axel. Now I'm not going to scum read him over it because that would be ridiculous, but I think I'd put it as a tiny unaligned between KJ and Axel if KJ were to flip scum. Think it's entirely meaningless from Axel's side though. His flip would mean nothing towards KJs.
@Cantrip I don't get your town read on crossbell at all. You only added two details beyond engaged and solvey=town. The first was the Proph roleplay was a factor in other people (DV and myself notably) scum reading the wall post and you having a guess to the identity and projecting that to the town meta. I have a hard time seeing how that equals a top town read.
In explaining it this way, it shifts it from an "Axel feels awkward" toneread to a meta read now... I don't like that, and anyone reading this is probably going to be like "What the hell?" but here goes...
AxelISO
Axel's entire ISO here:
In comparison, Axelrod within the first 100 posts in various games. He's still jokey, but he starts taking things seriously earlier. Not leading, but still more serious.
He then started actually posting content once he started getting scumread for it.
From this game soon after:
In all three of these games, he started playing more seriously before the 100 post point, and as of his next post or two after the 100 post point, he was solidly in the game. In none of them was he entirely jokey with not a single bit of focused purpose and interaction. This feels like an opening made to look like his other openings but a bit more fake and awkward, without even poking out feelers to contribute to the game. It's also just generally less active.
Going back to Axel's ISO, his posts feel kinda empty. It sorta feels like an actor playing Axel, but not very well.
5 Axel teams.
4 DV teams.
3 Cantrip teams.
3 DoTA teams.
3 KJ teams.
2 Grape teams.
2 Wisp teams.
If I remove the people I currently believe to be unlikely to be mafia out of that group to get down to a 3p PoE (in a 7-2 game, we have 2 miselims, so a 4p PoE works, but I'mma give some breathing room and rely on self-confidence to go for 3p), I end up with:
Out of the three of these, I'm thinking Axel-DoTA is the most likely, but DV is certainly staying on my watchlist.
I think I definitely want to wait a bit on being certain on the mid-group of Cantrip/Grape/KJ/Wisp. If I can get at least one other townread besides Proph this game rather than a bunch of townleans, I'll be happier on this solve.
Team sorting is kinda silly this early, but the thing I'm at is, I don't think both you and Proph can be wolves together.
Maybe if Proph finds a wolf lean that's not me, that I can evaluate, I might think about moving him up
Meh. Do you have a read that isn't OMGUS?
Anyways I appreciate your axel post, I'll take a better look once I get home, just about to head home from work
Why did you like this paragraph given that what I said was a bunch of IIoA/information instead of analysis? This is what I said:
This statement may be easy to agree with, but I don't really see how it gives you further insight into my alignment.
----
I like how you charted your thought process behind your Wisp read; I have a different perspective on his first couple of posts but I'll get into that after I've finished catching up. I don't think Grape has done much of anything alignment indicative thus far - I'll try to sort him as the Day progresses.
I think DV is playing very intentionally curt, and I remember I could find him as town in past games by watching how he explains his thought process and mindset. So far, he's mostly tunneling me and you. I want him to hopefully disengage a bit and focus more on the other players OR talk to/engage with us since we both are pretty active posters at the moment.
IMO, you're jumping the gun with Axel, and I think his alignment should become clearer as Day 1 progresses. Not sure how this will manifest in this game, but the Axel I know isn't a huge Day 1 poster and generally locks things up more towards the mid/endgame. It's been a long while since he randed wolf, but I don't think his wolf game is of particular note? I'm pretty sure his last wolf game was Amistarian III, and his team kinda lurked until they lost. So unless he's wolfed offsite or something, or gotten better at wolfing since that game, I would wait and see WRT his alignment.
So I went into this wall expecting to critique a fair bit of Crossbell's process but I can sort of see where they're coming from. I'll take a look at their more recent big wallpost in a bit.
I don't have a great grasp of all of your recent games, but in the two town ones I checked you voted pretty early and in the two scum ones I checked you were gunshy about voting/did not vote early. Meta reads are kinda *****, but it's something I'm taking into account.
I mean, for starters, I literally *do not know* what your alignment is. I'm pretty sure in the past couple games we've played, I knew what your alignment was (either because I was scum, or I replaced in and you were pretty obv town/cleared off of scum interactions)
How is DV's post where they confirmed their vote on you a "good post"? Don't really see what's so energetic about it.
Yes, but I'm also not really a believe in reading into scraps when people will provide more content for us to read them off of if we either wait or prod them to do so. Reading people off of scant RVS posts is acceptable if you're like.. playing in a mash, but this mountainous game can't be any more different.
Fair. I would be pretty exhausted from multiple multiple wolf rands most likely, and that would probably seep into my play.
Okay. I don't really recall ever playing with you much (besides [redacted game], where I was scum), so this is new to me.
What does "tsundere the game like crazy" mean? I know what those terms mean but I've never seen them used in a mafia game before.
Fair point on him responding to scumreads with frustration as being townie. I remember in Darling he kinda just shrugged scumreads off on him. I'll have to consider this when drafting my post on him.
----
I don't like DoTA's vote on Crossbell; it feels opportunistic to me. I am fine with his questioning on Crossbell, but the vote feels.. premature? Like he's looking for someone to incriminate. Would still like to see him zoom out/focus on the game at large.
They may be different in how they're presented, but the core message I feel is the same (which is a one-line post calling themselves town). Shrug.
I think the timing at which you chose to make this statement and the manner in which it was made as a conclusion is a good look.
Sure, I am pushing that a bit harder than I might otherwise for reasons. I think either of the other choices I might push for info are less interesting right now.
Maybe we're just two sides of the same coin lmao.
so ya im with Proph on, "its too early for this Axel read", nonsense
did you even check the length between the posts, and the post count in compared to the rest of the game?
honestly I'll be lucky to get axel to respond sometimes
@Proph
is dota usually this abrupt with his votes?
Talk to me about why you think 150 is more likely to come from town paranoid killjoy? I'm looking at post 150 and while I do think it's a good callout (because DV jumping straight into assuming inside info on Crossbell's declaration of town on me is a weird assumption given the open setup) I don't see how it sharply indicates town killjoy.
Why does you hating reading DV automatically equivocate to a scumlean? Is it because he's been so vocal in pushing for Crossbell, one of your ostensibly stronger townreads?
I think post 8, post 19, post 25, and some extent post 29 are indicative of him being reactive/clumsy. I'm used to town Wisp being more proactive and not being afraid to voice out his opinions or to vote early. I would also feel like he would be more critical or dogged in his pursuit of me if he was town. Right now, it feels like he's treating me with kid gloves.
At the time I made that post, I thought it was understandable for him to be annoyed at being pressured by Crossbell and I as either alignment. I'd be annoyed if I was being hounded by two clones of mine, for example.
Crossbell had a good point where him getting frustrated with dealing with both of us might point to him being town, though - but I still having a lot of concerns/misgivings about Wisp that I will hopefully get the chance to air out... right now.
---
I see where Crossbell is coming from wrt Axel but again, I still want to take the "wait and see" approach, given what I know about Axel's meta. My misgivings on Wisp are also based on tone.
I have no clue. I am not very up-to-date with MTGS meta.
There's a huge drought of games where I replaced out/got lunched in Arkham Horror and my next game on MTGS, I'm pretty sure.
Idk, I'm trying for the early solve so it's mostly just one shingle in a roof.
It's not that it's energetic, it's that it doesn't feel like he's forcing the anger in his soul.
With 2 miselims and 2 scum, this is effectively a micro, my home turf. Solving the micros quickly and off of hard and fast worldbuilding is usually more effective than hoping you're going to get a ton of information out of two and a half day phases maximum, IMO.
I don't know that we have played very often. And probably the last time you'd have looked closely at my play is years ago. We just chat a lot.
Ehh, how he approaches it is the important part to my read.
"It's not like I want to mentally invest in this game or anything, baka!" - Wisp, over and over again.
Mindmeld.
No, because while my explanation is a meta-read since it's easier to explain things that way, my actual read was off of tonal dissonance to what I feel is Axelrod's chakra.
on a micro level, his early was pretty wolfy even to me, which why I called that early mindmeld with DV
but on a macro level, they are leagues better I think
This is a severe misunderstanding of my scum rage game play. Typically as scum I argue about pendantic ***** to appear playing the game and then get annoyed by players ignoring my correct statements.
Its likely hard for players to seperate that from my town game play, because my town play focused on specific things but for me it was always with a purpose. Maybe not a purpose that other players understood, but a purpose none the less. Largely my town reads/gameplay in the last 5(? more maybe) years hyper evolved into me taking an active role to get players to respond to me to see these specific things/meta reads and that turned into me largely bullying people/becoming more toxic as I took the game too seriously.
My scum games I'd just get mad because people would say that something I did was a scum tell or something really dumb and then I'd just use that as a cover for my aimlessness which is in my opinion always been my biggest scum tell. Really though what I'm trying to get across is that it wasn't fake, it was always anger misplaced as it may have been.
Yeah, Wisp is missing that je ne sais quoi, hence no core yet, but I'm not yet convinced that they're not just self-restraining out of positive motives. Iff they start sorting, there exists tonal verisimilitude that does not present through their wolf game lol.
When I'm scum I typically throw out some town reads and I've observed almost all scum to do so. They know X person is town, and thus get there through incredibly weak reads. Its not an inside read as Proph seemed to suggest based upon some setup knowledge its literal scum inside info knowing that a person is town.
I guess you could call it a scum slip, but its not really that its more of a scum supposition.
Hey man when you gotta look for an excuse to scum read me this is how you do it.
My main concern with him is the "not voting in RVS" thing. This is very elementary/low sample size/basic meta analysis, but I did some cursory meta research on Wisp and found that he voted pretty early and used his vote early in two town games I looked at (Ballade and Mostly Seinen, while he waited on his vote in two of his recent scum games (Tarot Mafia and Darling in the FRANXX).
If you look at his ISOs in his town games, he votes early, but more than that, his tone is just way more self confident and self-assured. I'll just repost the first five posts from each game as an example:
Town games:
(this is referring to me, not the Crossbell in this game)
Scum games:
I might be cherry-picking town or scum games here from Wisp because I'm not the most familiar with his meta, but just read the posts I've quoted. He's more self assertive and confident as town. Plus, look how he just lock-towns me in Mostly Seinen II. I feel if he was town, he wouldn't be treating me with kid gloves like the way he is doing now. I feel like he would be voting me and being way more comfortable voicing his concerns about me, rather than what he is doing now. (saying that I haven't "towned it up" and saying that I'm not natural, without voting me)
The tonal difference is there I feel, and I think his tone this game matches his scum self more than his town self.
Nah, it's just an incredibly simplistic wording of your scum rage game play.
But especially if I see you get mad, I can usually tell the difference, in my experience.
That said, I'd rather everyone enjoy the game, yourself included. So instead I'm just handwaving you as getting there eventually since you'll either towncore or slip in the end if experience with you means anything.
ohh well
ping me again, when you have a case on someone who might actually flip red
still probably not DV
Sure, but I'm not that predictable, lmao.
Really? I thought it would make more sense to make something up about your mother and father.
I mean, make something up about your mouthy blather. Sorry about that.
If you say this a third time, I might hate it less. (No, I won't.)
Unless he doesn't do enough for another 48 hours, I don't think Wisp is a good D1 Elim here.
Hrm...
Heh, is that bc he's your buddy?
I mean there is really only two ways to play scum.
You either lock in reads and don't shift.
Or you waffle hard and leave every possible out you can to jump onto a wagon.
Yes you can color in between, but its really one of these two extremes. You can't outplay this inevitability.
I'm wondering what part of my RVS vote you thought that I thought I needed to explain? That I was going to vote for a Blue card? Why I was voting for a Blue card? Or how I chose between Timewalk and Ancestral?
And is the "defense" you are speaking of when I answered someone's not very serious question with a not very serious answer?
I mean, seems like you are reeeeeeally stretching to try and reach this point.
I was also going to say I have no idea who Crossbell is and was not going be spending any brain power at all trying to figure it out, when he said this:
Which actually narrows it down to, um...one person?
Sooooo, 'sup?
Sorry I still haven't done the thing. I am terrible.
No but I've got a slight suspicion he is trying to pocket me.
(I will continue to answer these grandstanding-like questions in this manner)
And some amount of insanity.
0 - 1 scum exists in
Axel, Wisp, Proph, Crossbell
0 - 2 scum exist in
Dota, KJ, Grape and Cantrip
Conclusion Dota, KJ, Grape and Cantrip are a better place to vote out right now. Not sure where to point though.
The fact and manner in which you chose between Time Walk and Ancestral. But yes, I want to push you out of your comfort zone and make you get serious early on.
I can truthfully say that I don't know what you're talking about.
Why are you plagiarizing from DV?
If you vote DoTA, I'll stop poking the
monkeybear that is Axelrod and I'll vote DoTA with you.Ehh, they were different motives and directions but Proph still has a point that on a simple level, which is all that anyone has at that point, they both include a statement which is essentially "I'm town."
Meh?
Also, would you say this applies to any alignment? Also calling my reads weak is a pretty surface-level attack. I might even call it a "weak read."
Vote Axelrod