I respect the Jackrito read is one of those early game reads that's stronger than it probably should be, and sure I haven't been combing through his posts but it's not like anyone else is interested in voting him (even the people who had him down as scum??)
I think Ecophagy's read process on Axelrod specifically is making me think he actually is town? It would be a cleverly manipulative read to manufacture as mafia. I don't know anything about Ecophagy's scumplay but personality-wise, super subtle sneaky reads like that don't seem to be his style.
Eco. is super sneaky. Or, once upon a time he was. He fooled me about as bad as I've ever been fooled before. So, his "townie" bar is forevermore quite high with me. He is currently not crossing it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am prepared to move my vote to Rhand to achieve a lynch though.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Town Grape:
Grape started out the game with a bang (OR NOT APPERENTLY) but I kind of like his 160 as a reaction to the progression of the game in reaction to his (not actually) daykill. He has a habit of strongly townreading me early, and I think he's been right every time (though I think he was scum once) so it's not out of the ordinary for him to be townreading me out the gate.
I don't agree with his townread of HR in 383, I think it's too early for that.
I'm also slightly paranoid of the sheepvote onto Sloth in 402. In that same post, he asserts that there "should not be scumreads on HR" which, again, might be too early for that but the overtness of that is... kinda too much for scum maybe?
Also, this may be too overt, but Grape claiming that something is a "great reason to scumread Rhand" in 519 very obviously oozes scum motivation, and is thus an oppertunisitic vote on Rhand. The question is: is it too obvious? Grape's better scum than that, isn't he?
Eco:
Eco goes here because his posting has been reasonable, I can generally follow the logic, and there was a bit there in our questioning of Ignoramus that he was on the same page thought processwise. I also kind of like that he's analyzing the focus on himself. He also does what I do in that he attacks the problem from several sides (see 371, where he tries to get Axel to analyze his townreads that are scumreading him) which usually shows a genuine attempt to solve a puzzle he doesn't have all the pieces to.
I will say I disagree with 384, saying that Axel's long post about Eco vs. Igno is possibly negatively relevent to Axel's alignment. Specifically he says it's a lot of words to say that Axel will do the same, but whether or not Axel would do that is not relevent to Eco's alignment.
Townish Vaimes:
So I'm rereading Vaimes and I don't hate him as much as I did. 167 seems a good attempt to poke Grape from odd angles, and is a fair analysis. I find myself agreeing with a good portion of his contentful posts (167, 282)and the ones I don't agree with (284,285) seem to have been arrived at naturally. My initial respose to not liking Vaimes was due to the fact that our reactions to things tend to be the same, and I felt like the incredulity in 350 in particular was out of nowhere and a bit too intense to be real.
Axelrod:
I'm not a huge fan of 311, where he says he says his list is similar to Vaimes barring Igno, but later when I ask him to commit to that he just says no. Normally I'd lightly townread such defiance but his response feels less "I haven't really thought about it" and more "I'm not going to commit on placement because i don't want to" which townie defiance would likely be more "you can't make me" or soemthing similar.
The read about Eco vs Igno is fair in 376. I can follow it, and it's not unreasonable. There' s a little bias in it, but it doesn't feel initially malicious.
I don't hate 536. The way he handled Rhand's post feels natural, as if he actually had those problems with it.
Actually, if I'm putting too much emphasis on the defiant non-commital in 311, I kind of... don't hate what else he's been doing.
TerRaine:
I still think, even though she's claimed that it's within her personality, the push on Eco is natural. It likely comes from a place of not knowing his alignment.
The list in 327 is a bit superficial, but maybe not unreasonable.
The fact that she's done a major push on two of my townreads is a thing I'm noticing though.
It also is worth noting that despite her having the highest postcount at the moment, I have the least confident read on her. That's kind of in the back of my mind rn but I'll leave her in town because genuine.
Null ZDS:
I can kinda make sense of his read on Ignoramus in 140, and it's a nice train of thought in terms of possible determining motive. I think that depends on Ignoramus's alignment though, as it's not as objectively true as I'd like it to be. He's thinking outside the box, which is good. I just worry that this type of read is the kind of obscure off the wall read that can be used to recolor scummy behavior to be town. Though, I think if the read was made sincerely, it's likely accurate.
The complete flip on Eco in 469 is fine though. It's similar to the read on Igno, but was predicated with ZDS up his Brexit up to then, which would be counterproductive because he could have easily gotten Eco executed if he wasn't careful. It's not out of [Eco/ZDS] range to distance/bus like that, but if it was theatre wouldn't Eco recipricate?
But then he votes Eco again in 538 and I hate it. It's completely unconnected to his other thoughts on Eco. The read just kind of materialized after an ISO. It makes sense, but Jack's posting being NAI is subjective and I wish ZDS would have questioned Eco a bit more on this before hardjumping on him if this was real. BUT I could logically see that read coming from an ISO. I'm just not a fan of his progression not having a trail here.
The position that Rhand is townish for not being able to figure out what to do feels like a bit of a softball, and I disagree with it.
Highroller:
He hasn't done much this game, but Elderlings just ended so I'm not willing to commit to a read on this slot just yet. I was hard scumreading him for Not Being Town, but he was and apperently that's just what he does. My earlier townread was a bit because I was scumreading him in Elderlings and I could follow his thoughts slightly better here than I could there, so, different play=different alignment, right? Since that's not the case, I don't wanna jump to any conclusions here, and want him to do more before I form a solid opinion.
One sidenote: One thing that may point to a town HR is the "currently listening to" music blurbs. If it's not role related, it might point to a relaxed, carefree HR this game, but I'm not confident in that this early in the game.
Ignoramus:
So originally, I had a noob town read on them, but they're not noob enough for that read to be relevent.Their playstyle is, by admission, generally scummy (shallow, weak reads) so I can't really read that as AI for them. Thus there's nothing REALLY telling in their posts, though I have the weirdest feeling they're trying to pocket me. From the gut/persisting townread on me out the gate to copying my list style. It's not super solid, but also I don't think it's completely baseless either.
I specifically don't like how they flipped on Eco and Axel in 456 because the read on Axel is based on someone else's read. and the Eco read doesn't make a whole lot sense to me, but again, maybe this is just a thing they do. I'd like to take more time and do research into their other games to see how much of this is normal/AI for them. I don't wanna fall into the trap I fell into in Elderlings where I read HR as Scummy In A Vacuum and didn't check to see if that was normal for them. I'm not gonna let this all go forever, but since they claim they thrive off of wolf spew, I'm willing to let them live a bit to maybe last long enough for a wolf to die to see what they do with that.
Scummy Sloth:
He hasn't really done anything. He says he wants to put as little effort into this game as possible, true, but still. He's blankvoted Rhand, and hinted that me and possibly Grape are scum because... theatre revolving around the daykill mix up? It's unclear.
The one thing I found noteworthy is that he stubbornly hugged his scumread of Rhand when I asked him to analyze whether or not a quick wagon popping up (even at Rhand's own behest) would, in a vacuum mean anything to his alignment, and instead of taking it into his analysis, he ignores it, claiming that "context matters". While that's true, it still makes sense to look at all angles, and his reluctence to do that is scummy to me.
Jackarito:
Jack has some big posts, which is good. I'm seeing him describe Igno as a "big red flag" and HR as "not a big fan of" but in the following post he votes HR because it's more recent. I feel like that language doesn't match the vote, and I feel like they should have added to the pressure already there on Igno instead of pushing somewhere else. It may well be a vanity scumread on Igno while pushing away on a townie. This is possibly compounded by the fact that in 451 they admit they might be wrong on HR, but don't actually make the decision on where to move the vote. Then he goes back to it in 540 where he's still scumreading Igno, but not voting for either now. I sense the scumread on HR is actually fake, though whether or not this is actually "pushing away from a buddy" or "latching on to executable town" is still up in the air.
Scum: Rhand:
Rhand starts off the game fluffing, like the rest of us do, though that's unusual for him I think... enough so that it's worth commenting on but not enough to assign as alignment telling. I still dislike that he decided to complain and flail instead of trying to do anything. I'm specifically against the fact that the one thing he DOES do to drum up content (asking us to vote him) he doesn't even analyze. I can't see Rhand asking us to vote him without a plan to analyze afterward.
I believe that he didn't grasp the subtle context of 'townread vs. read' regardless of alignment. The timing of it might be suspect as he was under pressure to have reads, but for now I'm gonna throw that in the NAI category
His reads list in 346 doesn't mention any of his nulls, nor Grape, nor Terraine. He later says that Grape is a 'total gut read' when Grape asks him. I get that he was rushing, but wouldn't he logically have said that after he said me and Eco were town in his list?I guess that's not super telling, given I don't actually know how much of a rush he was in.
Then he tunnels on Vaimes for a while, which is NAI.
I kinda like his take on Sloth though, that despite his postcount, he is low content. I also had this though.
However, 429 is a weird post. He's interacting with someone he believes to be town, but the post goes from "my reads aren't strong, you might be paranoid" to a series of accusatory questions that I'm not sure are asked of a townread generally. Also of note here, I don't think scum!Rhand makes this post to scum!Eco. The progression from just answering Eco to "maybe you're paranoid" to "why you do scummy things" don't make sense in that context, nor from a logical progression perspective.
Colorful List Grape/Eco/Vaimes/Axel/TerRaine
ZDS/HR/Igno
Sloth/Jack/Rhand
Note: ZDS is gray because despite all he's done, I keep not being able to come down on one side or the other. HR and Igno I could come down, but want to wait to see what they do later.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
To expand on why I think Grape is town like I said I would eariler. At the start he pinged me a bit which is why he was in my lower null/ scum pile. I liked his more recent stuff though and feel that my dislike of his early game was more my biased mindset of scum reading him every game so far. The main things that i liked were his push on Rhand over the change of view on Grape's own slot and overall bad movement in Rhand's readlist. Even though he did back off once he realized it was a mistake in read lists with my own. The reason I liked this is because he was eager to find a mistake and contradiction this was not shallow scum hunting this had a purpose and a end goal rather then trying to make something stick no matter what. I also saw the way he defended Ego to Axel as townlike, if Grape was scum no need for himself to get involved well unless he is scum with them which I doubt but possible. He has being consistent with his read on Eco and to a lesser degree HR which I disagree with but that is a different matter. Him voting Sloth because not sure what to do also felt town to me because he tried scumhunting on Rhand which failed so felt a bit lost which I sort of believe he was at that point.
This read list he did in 450 which I will put below is also very consistent, with his thoughts throughout the game and does make sense. Especially his consistent reads on Rhand Eco and HR. His recent vote on Rhand also makes sense in that world. I find it weird though on review that Ter is so low when in 380 he sees them as town, in the readlist he says that that tier is null but a bad gut feeling. I understand me and Rhand he never likes me, but the one on Ter does not match. I would like him to expand on that more if possible.
Semi feel like some of you are going to CFD on me tomorrow, since some of you are in sheep mode. Others just don't like me for reasons I'm not sure on apart from Eco which I respect because they are being clear and detailed about it. This could be my paranoia speaking of course, but I still remember how Matter went. Anyway going to give my Rhand thoughts in full.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
On Rhand I find his level of play this game frusateing they is little real scum hunting. They is a lot of complaints and being over defensive though. He starts off with a early defend of Eco,to Ter which is one of the more consistent parts of his play. After that he mainly complains about nothing happening and wants others to do his work for him.
I honestly expect a lot more I'm not the best at this, but I was able to give early thoughts off little content. Which I get attacked for because he thinks I have to many scum reads so early. Which is a bit insane to me since in my mind everyone starts off null then goes up and down. I like to try and make a small town core for day one to help me narrow down a POE which I did. His critic of this feels like he wants no scum hunting and game not to move foward.
I see him as overly defensive to Eco when they tell him he had to do things not just complain. I found his reaction to being voted as a bit nervous, even though he calls them naked votes. It feels a bit like a failed gambit telling people to vote him but never expecting them to.
Next we have his main and only real scum hunting which is weak imo but perhaps I'm biased because of my own Lagoon view. I feel like he was trying to hard to force a world narrative that Lagoon has TMI in his town reads on Axel me and ZDS. Which bothers me because of the whole town core thing day one I said before.
The whole buddy buddy thing over axel copying Lagoon readlist but no buddy would do that anyway is weird and a contradiction since he sees them as buddies but not at the same time.
I'm not sure why Ter is so low in his readlist,since he never talks about them. Sloth turns into one of his main side pushs but is null in his early read list so feels a bit forced. I also feel like he has Lagoon so low for petty reasons and being forced onto voting him because of their conflict rather then actual belief Lagoon is scum. His constant linking with Axel is also strange.
He tries to fix sone of this in his 429 to Eco which tbh feels like a big pocket attempt and trying to nudge Eco to vote with him on me to a degree. The whole last part about ego scum read them being paranoia and the back down on Vaimes feels like appeasement rather then his own beliefs because he knows how much danger he is in .
We also have a whole thing at one point when Sloth and Eco are leading wagons that he would vote Sloth because he thinks Eco wagon is unpure which is pointed at Axel and lagon at the time. My main issue here is his reason for Sloth over Eco should be because he sees Eco as town like his readlist shows, the other reason used here feels like he forgot his townread and just trying to force the Lagoon Axel narrative again.
Overall he is missing a wider picture and seems too focused on Lagoon and Axel not because he scum reads them but more he is forced to. This is also not townie because he is not compromisein on a execute . He is just trying to force a agenda while appeasing others and lacking consistency in reads out of those 2. He clearly sees me as bad but never fully pushs it but keeps, it more as a backup option. He knows others feel the same and can use it to save himself. His recent push on Sloth feels in a similar Vein not scum hunting more having escape plans. A push on Ter and Axel has never really happened off him either. He just mentions Axel a lot and like said before not sure why Ter low.
I also find how he light defends Igno and HR early and giving them free passes compared to Sloth weird also but I know that is my biased coming through lol.
So like I said before he is the right choice,today because lack of scum hunting more self pres options and a lack of consistency at times.
I apologize for my lack of activity, guys. I was in another mafia game that was on its final day, and I felt a bit burnt out yesterday from both that and the last week (/month) in general.
Just going to reply to that last post by Highroller point by point that refer to myself and stuff I find relevant.
2- Why is that Axel post so fake to you and why is that bad, a couple of us feel that way about Sloth in my view.
It just feels off. It feels like a fake read.
5- Someone can be lying about a role to create cop cover so scum will try and kill them, some town just like to lie to create chaos also to bait scum into mistakes. I hate it personally lying about a role but it does happen and better to judge off overall play as well.
Lying about a role in order to create chaos and confusion amongst the town is not a town action.
6 Any response in mafia can lead to anything and be seen unneeded because of our own biased world views. I for example think Ter is town so your attack on them could be considered unneeded, but at the same time I need it because it lets me see your world view and thought patterns if they make sense as town or just scum trying to get a quick kill. This is a game of interactions I don't see the issue in pressuring someone to get reactions especially when game was slow it led to a lot of discussion and game movement.
I have reread this three times and I have no idea what you're saying here.
What about that post warrants Ter jumping down his throat for 5 responses? What about that post is so suspicious? It seems perfectly fine to me.
I don't really understand what you're saying with the rest of your post.
@Highroller: Why do you take goo's claim at face value? He could be memeing.
I don't take goo's claim at face value. I don't think it's a good idea to vote a cop who claims day one, especially when that cop has not been counterclaimed.
For the same reason, why do you expect the real cop (if applicable) to counterclaim?
... Why wouldn't they? It's day one. Do you know how awesome outing a mafia is for the town on day one? Why would you sit on that information, especially when your job as a cop is to reveal who mafia are?
Re #490: you have lots of strong opinions, please back them up.
I mean, what, specifically, do you feel lacks backing up?
Highroller doesn't have enough content to make his wagon worth it.
Why the hell am I a wagon? I don't even have votes on me.
Also, seriously? You don't have a preference between Rhand or Ecophagy? That's just ho hum?
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Killjoy feels like the same Killjoy that was in Realm of the Elderlings mafia.
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If you don't think TerRaine is open-wolfing, I have a bridge to sell you. Ter's pretty explicitly just roaming around looking for someone to kill. Goes after Ecophagy, then later votes Grapefruit, then votes Rhand, almost immediately afterward votes Ecophagy, and then votes Axelrod. Is she looking for mafia, or is she looking to vote two more people in order to fill the punch card to get a free frozen yogurt? Seriously, read Ter's ISO and tell me that that these are positions that organically rise from a town hunting for mafia. This is blatant.
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Current Gold/Silver/Bronze for lynch choices:
Gold: TerRaine
Silver: Jackrito
Bronze: Tie, Rhand and Axelrod
Vote stands on TerRaine for now. I'll need to reread the thread. I find Rhand suspicious but I also don't like how the Rhand-wagon suddenly grew at the drop of a hat.
On Rhand I find his level of play this game frusateing they is little real scum hunting. They is a lot of complaints and being over defensive though. He starts off with a early defend of Eco,to Ter which is one of the more consistent parts of his play. After that he mainly complains about nothing happening and wants others to do his work for him.
I honestly expect a lot more I'm not the best at this, but I was able to give early thoughts off little content. Which I get attacked for because he thinks I have to many scum reads so early. Which is a bit insane to me since in my mind everyone starts off null then goes up and down. I like to try and make a small town core for day one to help me narrow down a POE which I did. His critic of this feels like he wants no scum hunting and game not to move foward.
I see him as overly defensive to Eco when they tell him he had to do things not just complain. I found his reaction to being voted as a bit nervous, even though he calls them naked votes. It feels a bit like a failed gambit telling people to vote him but never expecting them to.
Next we have his main and only real scum hunting which is weak imo but perhaps I'm biased because of my own Lagoon view. I feel like he was trying to hard to force a world narrative that Lagoon has TMI in his town reads on Axel me and ZDS. Which bothers me because of the whole town core thing day one I said before.
The whole buddy buddy thing over axel copying Lagoon readlist but no buddy would do that anyway is weird and a contradiction since he sees them as buddies but not at the same time.
I'm not sure why Ter is so low in his readlist,since he never talks about them. Sloth turns into one of his main side pushs but is null in his early read list so feels a bit forced. I also feel like he has Lagoon so low for petty reasons and being forced onto voting him because of their conflict rather then actual belief Lagoon is scum. His constant linking with Axel is also strange.
He tries to fix sone of this in his 429 to Eco which tbh feels like a big pocket attempt and trying to nudge Eco to vote with him on me to a degree. The whole last part about ego scum read them being paranoia and the back down on Vaimes feels like appeasement rather then his own beliefs because he knows how much danger he is in .
We also have a whole thing at one point when Sloth and Eco are leading wagons that he would vote Sloth because he thinks Eco wagon is unpure which is pointed at Axel and lagon at the time. My main issue here is his reason for Sloth over Eco should be because he sees Eco as town like his readlist shows, the other reason used here feels like he forgot his townread and just trying to force the Lagoon Axel narrative again.
Overall he is missing a wider picture and seems too focused on Lagoon and Axel not because he scum reads them but more he is forced to. This is also not townie because he is not compromisein on a execute . He is just trying to force a agenda while appeasing others and lacking consistency in reads out of those 2. He clearly sees me as bad but never fully pushs it but keeps, it more as a backup option. He knows others feel the same and can use it to save himself. His recent push on Sloth feels in a similar Vein not scum hunting more having escape plans. A push on Ter and Axel has never really happened off him either. He just mentions Axel a lot and like said before not sure why Ter low.
I also find how he light defends Igno and HR early and giving them free passes compared to Sloth weird also but I know that is my biased coming through lol.
So like I said before he is the right choice,today because lack of scum hunting more self pres options and a lack of consistency at times.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Doubt I change my mind barring a big change in the last day, I should be around though if something does happen, and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
Yup. Believe it or not D1 usually contains a lot of mind changing throughout the phase as we townsfolk try to figure out what's what.
You'd probably have an view that evolved if you had more activity.
I'd point out that there's context for a lot of those votes but you don't seem to be interested in reading my posts beyond one set of interaction from the first 3 pages. Then it's cherry pick out my votes and stamp your feet about why people aren't voting me.
On Rhand I find his level of play this game frusateing they is little real scum hunting. They is a lot of complaints and being over defensive though. He starts off with a early defend of Eco,to Ter which is one of the more consistent parts of his play. After that he mainly complains about nothing happening and wants others to do his work for him.
I honestly expect a lot more I'm not the best at this, but I was able to give early thoughts off little content. Which I get attacked for because he thinks I have to many scum reads so early. Which is a bit insane to me since in my mind everyone starts off null then goes up and down. I like to try and make a small town core for day one to help me narrow down a POE which I did. His critic of this feels like he wants no scum hunting and game not to move foward.
I see him as overly defensive to Eco when they tell him he had to do things not just complain. I found his reaction to being voted as a bit nervous, even though he calls them naked votes. It feels a bit like a failed gambit telling people to vote him but never expecting them to.
Next we have his main and only real scum hunting which is weak imo but perhaps I'm biased because of my own Lagoon view. I feel like he was trying to hard to force a world narrative that Lagoon has TMI in his town reads on Axel me and ZDS. Which bothers me because of the whole town core thing day one I said before.
The whole buddy buddy thing over axel copying Lagoon readlist but no buddy would do that anyway is weird and a contradiction since he sees them as buddies but not at the same time.
I'm not sure why Ter is so low in his readlist,since he never talks about them. Sloth turns into one of his main side pushs but is null in his early read list so feels a bit forced. I also feel like he has Lagoon so low for petty reasons and being forced onto voting him because of their conflict rather then actual belief Lagoon is scum. His constant linking with Axel is also strange.
He tries to fix sone of this in his 429 to Eco which tbh feels like a big pocket attempt and trying to nudge Eco to vote with him on me to a degree. The whole last part about ego scum read them being paranoia and the back down on Vaimes feels like appeasement rather then his own beliefs because he knows how much danger he is in .
We also have a whole thing at one point when Sloth and Eco are leading wagons that he would vote Sloth because he thinks Eco wagon is unpure which is pointed at Axel and lagon at the time. My main issue here is his reason for Sloth over Eco should be because he sees Eco as town like his readlist shows, the other reason used here feels like he forgot his townread and just trying to force the Lagoon Axel narrative again.
Overall he is missing a wider picture and seems too focused on Lagoon and Axel not because he scum reads them but more he is forced to. This is also not townie because he is not compromisein on a execute . He is just trying to force a agenda while appeasing others and lacking consistency in reads out of those 2. He clearly sees me as bad but never fully pushs it but keeps, it more as a backup option. He knows others feel the same and can use it to save himself. His recent push on Sloth feels in a similar Vein not scum hunting more having escape plans. A push on Ter and Axel has never really happened off him either. He just mentions Axel a lot and like said before not sure why Ter low.
I also find how he light defends Igno and HR early and giving them free passes compared to Sloth weird also but I know that is my biased coming through lol.
So like I said before he is the right choice,today because lack of scum hunting more self pres options and a lack of consistency at times.
What was the intent of this post, Jack?
It was my full thoughts on the slot because I have being calling them scum for a while, but never expanded on it to the degree that I wanted because of being busy. That post did not come out the way I wanted it to though and ended up being more ramblely then I wanted it to be. I like to put down my full thoughts before voting normally. I'm feeling rusty so falling into bad habits rather then being straight to the point, partly because of a lack of confidence also.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yup. Believe it or not D1 usually contains a lot of mind changing throughout the phase as we townsfolk try to figure out what's what.
You'd probably have an view that evolved if you had more activity.
I'd point out that there's context for a lot of those votes but you don't seem to be interested in reading my posts beyond one set of interaction from the first 3 pages. Then it's cherry pick out my votes and stamp your feet about why people aren't voting me.
Go read Elderlings and see that the bolded is not true. lol.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ Yea honestly I keep seeing others say this is HR's meta so...largely can't be bothered. It doesn't come across as scummy so much as it comes across as someone who has so utterly convinced himself that he's right that reality don't matter.
What timish does D1 end? Don't feel like looking for the link
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It was my full thoughts on the slot because I have being calling them scum for a while, but never expanded on it to the degree that I wanted because of being busy. That post did not come out the way I wanted it to though and ended up being more ramblely then I wanted it to be. I like to put down my full thoughts before voting normally. I'm feeling rusty so falling into bad habits rather then being straight to the point, partly because of a lack of confidence also.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It was my full thoughts on the slot because I have being calling them scum for a while, but never expanded on it to the degree that I wanted because of being busy. That post did not come out the way I wanted it to though and ended up being more ramblely then I wanted it to be. I like to put down my full thoughts before voting normally. I'm feeling rusty so falling into bad habits rather then being straight to the point, partly because of a lack of confidence also.
Remind me who you would lynch today.
My POE atm is Igno, HR, Rhand, its a bit of a shallow POE, but depending on how today ends, I review tomorrow and work out if I'm giving someone too much of a free pass, which I feel like I have today.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I do, but I think we might actually not yeet Rhand today, because Jack's progression on Rhand is ?????
what is wrong with my progression? they have being in the lower end for me all day, not always my first choice clearly because I took issues with others more, and not went into full deep dive on Rhand until recently to assure it. most of today has being me working through my wider POE and decideing if I townread them or not which I did with Axel, Sloth and GF. Eco to a lesser degree. All of them I came out with town or nullish.
-snip-
I have no issue with the Rhand wagon as well, we need to start making movements and his last post of having no thoughts, just seems weird to me because they is content to discuss and make pushs on.
-snip-
[font=georgia]-snip-
Rhand having a hard time forming opinion is a good thing (to a minor extent), since scum-him could easily throw a couple logical or consensual town reads here or there to pretend he's doing something and hide among the crowd. I think he is legitimately struggling.
-snip-.
-snip-
Semi agree with your Rhand view, its rare for scum to not try and make something up to look town, its harder as town to do this because you are trying to work out the game and would not waste time with fake reads.
-snip-.
Still don't like Highroller thought his catch up was bad apart from the one point on Rhand. But like I said before leaving that battle for another day.
-snip-
So my vote likely ends up on Rhand unless he really had a mircale comeback. Not went into detail why I think they are scum I dont think,but that is in my notes also.
On Rhand I find his level of play this game frusateing they is little real scum hunting. They is a lot of complaints and being over defensive though. He starts off with a early defend of Eco,to Ter which is one of the more consistent parts of his play. After that he mainly complains about nothing happening and wants others to do his work for him.
I honestly expect a lot more I'm not the best at this, but I was able to give early thoughts off little content. Which I get attacked for because he thinks I have to many scum reads so early. Which is a bit insane to me since in my mind everyone starts off null then goes up and down. I like to try and make a small town core for day one to help me narrow down a POE which I did. His critic of this feels like he wants no scum hunting and game not to move foward.
I see him as overly defensive to Eco when they tell him he had to do things not just complain. I found his reaction to being voted as a bit nervous, even though he calls them naked votes. It feels a bit like a failed gambit telling people to vote him but never expecting them to.
Next we have his main and only real scum hunting which is weak imo but perhaps I'm biased because of my own Lagoon view. I feel like he was trying to hard to force a world narrative that Lagoon has TMI in his town reads on Axel me and ZDS. Which bothers me because of the whole town core thing day one I said before.
The whole buddy buddy thing over axel copying Lagoon readlist but no buddy would do that anyway is weird and a contradiction since he sees them as buddies but not at the same time.
I'm not sure why Ter is so low in his readlist,since he never talks about them. Sloth turns into one of his main side pushs but is null in his early read list so feels a bit forced. I also feel like he has Lagoon so low for petty reasons and being forced onto voting him because of their conflict rather then actual belief Lagoon is scum. His constant linking with Axel is also strange.
He tries to fix sone of this in his 429 to Eco which tbh feels like a big pocket attempt and trying to nudge Eco to vote with him on me to a degree. The whole last part about ego scum read them being paranoia and the back down on Vaimes feels like appeasement rather then his own beliefs because he knows how much danger he is in .
We also have a whole thing at one point when Sloth and Eco are leading wagons that he would vote Sloth because he thinks Eco wagon is unpure which is pointed at Axel and lagon at the time. My main issue here is his reason for Sloth over Eco should be because he sees Eco as town like his readlist shows, the other reason used here feels like he forgot his townread and just trying to force the Lagoon Axel narrative again.
Overall he is missing a wider picture and seems too focused on Lagoon and Axel not because he scum reads them but more he is forced to. This is also not townie because he is not compromisein on a execute . He is just trying to force a agenda while appeasing others and lacking consistency in reads out of those 2. He clearly sees me as bad but never fully pushs it but keeps, it more as a backup option. He knows others feel the same and can use it to save himself. His recent push on Sloth feels in a similar Vein not scum hunting more having escape plans. A push on Ter and Axel has never really happened off him either. He just mentions Axel a lot and like said before not sure why Ter low.
I also find how he light defends Igno and HR early and giving them free passes compared to Sloth weird also but I know that is my biased coming through lol.
So like I said before he is the right choice,today because lack of scum hunting more self pres options and a lack of consistency at times.
Doubt I change my mind barring a big change in the last day, I should be around though if something does happen, and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
It was my full thoughts on the slot because I have being calling them scum for a while, but never expanded on it to the degree that I wanted because of being busy. That post did not come out the way I wanted it to though and ended up being more ramblely then I wanted it to be. I like to put down my full thoughts before voting normally. I'm feeling rusty so falling into bad habits rather then being straight to the point, partly because of a lack of confidence also.
I think the progression here is awkward. It starts as a kind of "sure, why not" for Rhand in A, then he agrees that ZDS's point might be townie for Rhand in B, then is scumreading a little bit in C, but in he's all in on HR's point on Rhand, then he makes E and F, then explains it in G. Where did that come from?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I do, but I think we might actually not yeet Rhand today, because Jack's progression on Rhand is ?????
what is wrong with my progression? they have being in the lower end for me all day, not always my first choice clearly because I took issues with others more, and not went into full deep dive on Rhand until recently to assure it. most of today has being me working through my wider POE and decideing if I townread them or not which I did with Axel, Sloth and GF. Eco to a lesser degree. All of them I came out with town or nullish.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I do, but I think we might actually not yeet Rhand today, because Jack's progression on Rhand is ?????
what is wrong with my progression? they have being in the lower end for me all day, not always my first choice clearly because I took issues with others more, and not went into full deep dive on Rhand until recently to assure it. most of today has being me working through my wider POE and decideing if I townread them or not which I did with Axel, Sloth and GF. Eco to a lesser degree. All of them I came out with town or nullish.
See above.
Not fully understanding what the issue is apart from me half agreeing with a ZDS post in town Rhand favor which was very early. The rest of that is me seeing him as scum which is the overall consistant tone.
I do, but I think we might actually not yeet Rhand today, because Jack's progression on Rhand is ?????
what is wrong with my progression? they have being in the lower end for me all day, not always my first choice clearly because I took issues with others more, and not went into full deep dive on Rhand until recently to assure it. most of today has being me working through my wider POE and decideing if I townread them or not which I did with Axel, Sloth and GF. Eco to a lesser degree. All of them I came out with town or nullish.
See above.
Not fully understanding what the issue is apart from me half agreeing with a ZDS post in town Rhand favor which was very early. The rest of that is me seeing him as scum which is the overall consistant tone.
Talk me through each of those posts as they relate to Rhand then. How scummy is Rhand and why in each of them?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It was mainly his attack on Ter bothered me a lot and a lack of wider picture in the game. It does not feel like he is scum hunting more just semi reacting and just death tunneling Ter.I admit though they is not enough content and it is perhaps his meta which some of you seem to confirm. I have a bad habit of going on these insane tunnels though like I did in Matter because I like to trust my intial view most of the time. But I'm putting that aside for today and see how they do tomorrow since I have no chance of getting it and not had the best history in these tunnels either.
It looks to me like you were indifferent toward Rhand's wagon in facor of something happening, then you agreed with ZDS that he might be town for a reason, then one of your scumreads made points about them being scum (which didn't appear to affect your read on that scumread) now you're scumreading Rhand because of the points HR made plus a whole bunch more that weren't hinted at before 569, and now you're hardreading him over Igno and HR for reasons.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It was mainly his attack on Ter bothered me a lot and a lack of wider picture in the game. It does not feel like he is scum hunting more just semi reacting and just death tunneling Ter.I admit though they is not enough content and it is perhaps his meta which some of you seem to confirm. I have a bad habit of going on these insane tunnels though like I did in Matter because I like to trust my intial view most of the time. But I'm putting that aside for today and see how they do tomorrow since I have no chance of getting it and not had the best history in these tunnels either.
He always death tunnels though. See Elderlings for examples of him deathtunneling (basically?) all townies and a 3per.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
These default kind of wagons always make me nervous, but I'm way happier about Rhand than other-default-wagon-Axelrod.
Meaning?
Grape:
Grape started out the game with a bang (OR NOT APPERENTLY) but I kind of like his 160 as a reaction to the progression of the game in reaction to his (not actually) daykill. He has a habit of strongly townreading me early, and I think he's been right every time (though I think he was scum once) so it's not out of the ordinary for him to be townreading me out the gate.
I don't agree with his townread of HR in 383, I think it's too early for that.
I'm also slightly paranoid of the sheepvote onto Sloth in 402. In that same post, he asserts that there "should not be scumreads on HR" which, again, might be too early for that but the overtness of that is... kinda too much for scum maybe?
Also, this may be too overt, but Grape claiming that something is a "great reason to scumread Rhand" in 519 very obviously oozes scum motivation, and is thus an oppertunisitic vote on Rhand. The question is: is it too obvious? Grape's better scum than that, isn't he?
Eco:
Eco goes here because his posting has been reasonable, I can generally follow the logic, and there was a bit there in our questioning of Ignoramus that he was on the same page thought processwise. I also kind of like that he's analyzing the focus on himself. He also does what I do in that he attacks the problem from several sides (see 371, where he tries to get Axel to analyze his townreads that are scumreading him) which usually shows a genuine attempt to solve a puzzle he doesn't have all the pieces to.
I will say I disagree with 384, saying that Axel's long post about Eco vs. Igno is possibly negatively relevent to Axel's alignment. Specifically he says it's a lot of words to say that Axel will do the same, but whether or not Axel would do that is not relevent to Eco's alignment.
Townish
Vaimes:
So I'm rereading Vaimes and I don't hate him as much as I did. 167 seems a good attempt to poke Grape from odd angles, and is a fair analysis. I find myself agreeing with a good portion of his contentful posts (167, 282)and the ones I don't agree with (284,285) seem to have been arrived at naturally. My initial respose to not liking Vaimes was due to the fact that our reactions to things tend to be the same, and I felt like the incredulity in 350 in particular was out of nowhere and a bit too intense to be real.
Axelrod:
I'm not a huge fan of 311, where he says he says his list is similar to Vaimes barring Igno, but later when I ask him to commit to that he just says no. Normally I'd lightly townread such defiance but his response feels less "I haven't really thought about it" and more "I'm not going to commit on placement because i don't want to" which townie defiance would likely be more "you can't make me" or soemthing similar.
The read about Eco vs Igno is fair in 376. I can follow it, and it's not unreasonable. There' s a little bias in it, but it doesn't feel initially malicious.
I don't hate 536. The way he handled Rhand's post feels natural, as if he actually had those problems with it.
Actually, if I'm putting too much emphasis on the defiant non-commital in 311, I kind of... don't hate what else he's been doing.
TerRaine:
I still think, even though she's claimed that it's within her personality, the push on Eco is natural. It likely comes from a place of not knowing his alignment.
The list in 327 is a bit superficial, but maybe not unreasonable.
The fact that she's done a major push on two of my townreads is a thing I'm noticing though.
It also is worth noting that despite her having the highest postcount at the moment, I have the least confident read on her. That's kind of in the back of my mind rn but I'll leave her in town because genuine.
Null
ZDS:
I can kinda make sense of his read on Ignoramus in 140, and it's a nice train of thought in terms of possible determining motive. I think that depends on Ignoramus's alignment though, as it's not as objectively true as I'd like it to be. He's thinking outside the box, which is good. I just worry that this type of read is the kind of obscure off the wall read that can be used to recolor scummy behavior to be town. Though, I think if the read was made sincerely, it's likely accurate.
The complete flip on Eco in 469 is fine though. It's similar to the read on Igno, but was predicated with ZDS up his Brexit up to then, which would be counterproductive because he could have easily gotten Eco executed if he wasn't careful. It's not out of [Eco/ZDS] range to distance/bus like that, but if it was theatre wouldn't Eco recipricate?
But then he votes Eco again in 538 and I hate it. It's completely unconnected to his other thoughts on Eco. The read just kind of materialized after an ISO. It makes sense, but Jack's posting being NAI is subjective and I wish ZDS would have questioned Eco a bit more on this before hardjumping on him if this was real. BUT I could logically see that read coming from an ISO. I'm just not a fan of his progression not having a trail here.
The position that Rhand is townish for not being able to figure out what to do feels like a bit of a softball, and I disagree with it.
Highroller:
He hasn't done much this game, but Elderlings just ended so I'm not willing to commit to a read on this slot just yet. I was hard scumreading him for Not Being Town, but he was and apperently that's just what he does. My earlier townread was a bit because I was scumreading him in Elderlings and I could follow his thoughts slightly better here than I could there, so, different play=different alignment, right? Since that's not the case, I don't wanna jump to any conclusions here, and want him to do more before I form a solid opinion.
One sidenote: One thing that may point to a town HR is the "currently listening to" music blurbs. If it's not role related, it might point to a relaxed, carefree HR this game, but I'm not confident in that this early in the game.
Ignoramus:
So originally, I had a noob town read on them, but they're not noob enough for that read to be relevent.Their playstyle is, by admission, generally scummy (shallow, weak reads) so I can't really read that as AI for them. Thus there's nothing REALLY telling in their posts, though I have the weirdest feeling they're trying to pocket me. From the gut/persisting townread on me out the gate to copying my list style. It's not super solid, but also I don't think it's completely baseless either.
I specifically don't like how they flipped on Eco and Axel in 456 because the read on Axel is based on someone else's read. and the Eco read doesn't make a whole lot sense to me, but again, maybe this is just a thing they do. I'd like to take more time and do research into their other games to see how much of this is normal/AI for them. I don't wanna fall into the trap I fell into in Elderlings where I read HR as Scummy In A Vacuum and didn't check to see if that was normal for them. I'm not gonna let this all go forever, but since they claim they thrive off of wolf spew, I'm willing to let them live a bit to maybe last long enough for a wolf to die to see what they do with that.
Scummy
Sloth:
He hasn't really done anything. He says he wants to put as little effort into this game as possible, true, but still. He's blankvoted Rhand, and hinted that me and possibly Grape are scum because... theatre revolving around the daykill mix up? It's unclear.
The one thing I found noteworthy is that he stubbornly hugged his scumread of Rhand when I asked him to analyze whether or not a quick wagon popping up (even at Rhand's own behest) would, in a vacuum mean anything to his alignment, and instead of taking it into his analysis, he ignores it, claiming that "context matters". While that's true, it still makes sense to look at all angles, and his reluctence to do that is scummy to me.
Jackarito:
Jack has some big posts, which is good. I'm seeing him describe Igno as a "big red flag" and HR as "not a big fan of" but in the following post he votes HR because it's more recent. I feel like that language doesn't match the vote, and I feel like they should have added to the pressure already there on Igno instead of pushing somewhere else. It may well be a vanity scumread on Igno while pushing away on a townie. This is possibly compounded by the fact that in 451 they admit they might be wrong on HR, but don't actually make the decision on where to move the vote. Then he goes back to it in 540 where he's still scumreading Igno, but not voting for either now. I sense the scumread on HR is actually fake, though whether or not this is actually "pushing away from a buddy" or "latching on to executable town" is still up in the air.
Scum:
Rhand:
Rhand starts off the game fluffing, like the rest of us do, though that's unusual for him I think... enough so that it's worth commenting on but not enough to assign as alignment telling. I still dislike that he decided to complain and flail instead of trying to do anything. I'm specifically against the fact that the one thing he DOES do to drum up content (asking us to vote him) he doesn't even analyze. I can't see Rhand asking us to vote him without a plan to analyze afterward.
I believe that he didn't grasp the subtle context of 'townread vs. read' regardless of alignment. The timing of it might be suspect as he was under pressure to have reads, but for now I'm gonna throw that in the NAI category
His reads list in 346 doesn't mention any of his nulls, nor Grape, nor Terraine. He later says that Grape is a 'total gut read' when Grape asks him. I get that he was rushing, but wouldn't he logically have said that after he said me and Eco were town in his list?I guess that's not super telling, given I don't actually know how much of a rush he was in.
Then he tunnels on Vaimes for a while, which is NAI.
I kinda like his take on Sloth though, that despite his postcount, he is low content. I also had this though.
However, 429 is a weird post. He's interacting with someone he believes to be town, but the post goes from "my reads aren't strong, you might be paranoid" to a series of accusatory questions that I'm not sure are asked of a townread generally. Also of note here, I don't think scum!Rhand makes this post to scum!Eco. The progression from just answering Eco to "maybe you're paranoid" to "why you do scummy things" don't make sense in that context, nor from a logical progression perspective.
Colorful List
Grape/Eco/Vaimes/Axel/TerRaine
ZDS/HR/Igno
Sloth/Jack/Rhand
Note: ZDS is gray because despite all he's done, I keep not being able to come down on one side or the other. HR and Igno I could come down, but want to wait to see what they do later.
This read list he did in 450 which I will put below is also very consistent, with his thoughts throughout the game and does make sense. Especially his consistent reads on Rhand Eco and HR. His recent vote on Rhand also makes sense in that world. I find it weird though on review that Ter is so low when in 380 he sees them as town, in the readlist he says that that tier is null but a bad gut feeling. I understand me and Rhand he never likes me, but the one on Ter does not match. I would like him to expand on that more if possible.
Grape!
KJ, Eco, HR
ZDS, Ignoramus
VaGoo, Axel
Rhand, Jack, Ter
Sloth
Except not because I'm not your top townread.
Everyone: Vote in the Mafia poll! I want that podcast!
Lets realtime.
I honestly expect a lot more I'm not the best at this, but I was able to give early thoughts off little content. Which I get attacked for because he thinks I have to many scum reads so early. Which is a bit insane to me since in my mind everyone starts off null then goes up and down. I like to try and make a small town core for day one to help me narrow down a POE which I did. His critic of this feels like he wants no scum hunting and game not to move foward.
I see him as overly defensive to Eco when they tell him he had to do things not just complain. I found his reaction to being voted as a bit nervous, even though he calls them naked votes. It feels a bit like a failed gambit telling people to vote him but never expecting them to.
Next we have his main and only real scum hunting which is weak imo but perhaps I'm biased because of my own Lagoon view. I feel like he was trying to hard to force a world narrative that Lagoon has TMI in his town reads on Axel me and ZDS. Which bothers me because of the whole town core thing day one I said before.
The whole buddy buddy thing over axel copying Lagoon readlist but no buddy would do that anyway is weird and a contradiction since he sees them as buddies but not at the same time.
I'm not sure why Ter is so low in his readlist,since he never talks about them. Sloth turns into one of his main side pushs but is null in his early read list so feels a bit forced. I also feel like he has Lagoon so low for petty reasons and being forced onto voting him because of their conflict rather then actual belief Lagoon is scum. His constant linking with Axel is also strange.
He tries to fix sone of this in his 429 to Eco which tbh feels like a big pocket attempt and trying to nudge Eco to vote with him on me to a degree. The whole last part about ego scum read them being paranoia and the back down on Vaimes feels like appeasement rather then his own beliefs because he knows how much danger he is in .
We also have a whole thing at one point when Sloth and Eco are leading wagons that he would vote Sloth because he thinks Eco wagon is unpure which is pointed at Axel and lagon at the time. My main issue here is his reason for Sloth over Eco should be because he sees Eco as town like his readlist shows, the other reason used here feels like he forgot his townread and just trying to force the Lagoon Axel narrative again.
Overall he is missing a wider picture and seems too focused on Lagoon and Axel not because he scum reads them but more he is forced to. This is also not townie because he is not compromisein on a execute . He is just trying to force a agenda while appeasing others and lacking consistency in reads out of those 2. He clearly sees me as bad but never fully pushs it but keeps, it more as a backup option. He knows others feel the same and can use it to save himself. His recent push on Sloth feels in a similar Vein not scum hunting more having escape plans. A push on Ter and Axel has never really happened off him either. He just mentions Axel a lot and like said before not sure why Ter low.
I also find how he light defends Igno and HR early and giving them free passes compared to Sloth weird also but I know that is my biased coming through lol.
So like I said before he is the right choice,today because lack of scum hunting more self pres options and a lack of consistency at times.
I'm not even sure what music to pl-
Currently listening to: "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie.
Alright, let's get to it!
It just feels off. It feels like a fake read.
Lying about a role in order to create chaos and confusion amongst the town is not a town action.
I have reread this three times and I have no idea what you're saying here.
What about that post warrants Ter jumping down his throat for 5 responses? What about that post is so suspicious? It seems perfectly fine to me.
I don't really understand what you're saying with the rest of your post.
*****, yeah, my fault. Sorry about that.
I don't take goo's claim at face value. I don't think it's a good idea to vote a cop who claims day one, especially when that cop has not been counterclaimed.
... Why wouldn't they? It's day one. Do you know how awesome outing a mafia is for the town on day one? Why would you sit on that information, especially when your job as a cop is to reveal who mafia are?
I mean, what, specifically, do you feel lacks backing up?
Yes.
Why the hell am I a wagon? I don't even have votes on me.
Also, seriously? You don't have a preference between Rhand or Ecophagy? That's just ho hum?
-----
Killjoy feels like the same Killjoy that was in Realm of the Elderlings mafia.
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If you don't think TerRaine is open-wolfing, I have a bridge to sell you. Ter's pretty explicitly just roaming around looking for someone to kill. Goes after Ecophagy, then later votes Grapefruit, then votes Rhand, almost immediately afterward votes Ecophagy, and then votes Axelrod. Is she looking for mafia, or is she looking to vote two more people in order to fill the punch card to get a free frozen yogurt? Seriously, read Ter's ISO and tell me that that these are positions that organically rise from a town hunting for mafia. This is blatant.
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Current Gold/Silver/Bronze for lynch choices:
Gold: TerRaine
Silver: Jackrito
Bronze: Tie, Rhand and Axelrod
Vote stands on TerRaine for now. I'll need to reread the thread. I find Rhand suspicious but I also don't like how the Rhand-wagon suddenly grew at the drop of a hat.
And people call me obstinate?
Doubt I change my mind barring a big change in the last day, I should be around though if something does happen, and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
You'd probably have an view that evolved if you had more activity.
I'd point out that there's context for a lot of those votes but you don't seem to be interested in reading my posts beyond one set of interaction from the first 3 pages. Then it's cherry pick out my votes and stamp your feet about why people aren't voting me.
It was my full thoughts on the slot because I have being calling them scum for a while, but never expanded on it to the degree that I wanted because of being busy. That post did not come out the way I wanted it to though and ended up being more ramblely then I wanted it to be. I like to put down my full thoughts before voting normally. I'm feeling rusty so falling into bad habits rather then being straight to the point, partly because of a lack of confidence also.
402
519
371
384
167
282
284
285
350
311
376
536
327
469
538
451
346
429
I meant to do this when I made the big post, but here's all the post links I referenced in that
Actually @Axel: Highroller ISO; Elderlings Go read this and let me know what your read is afterward.
What timish does D1 end? Don't feel like looking for the link
Rhand (5): Slothful, Ecophagy, gooLagoon, Grapefruit21, Jackarito
Ecophagy (2): Axelrod, ZeDorkSlipeur
Slothful (1): Killjoy
Axelrod (1): TerRaine
TerRaine (1): Highroller
gooLagoon (1): Rhand
Not Voting (1): ignoramus
Do want to ask the rest of Town to wait for Rhand to post and see if some of our less than active players to mosey on in and do stuff.
My POE atm is Igno, HR, Rhand, its a bit of a shallow POE, but depending on how today ends, I review tomorrow and work out if I'm giving someone too much of a free pass, which I feel like I have today.
what is wrong with my progression? they have being in the lower end for me all day, not always my first choice clearly because I took issues with others more, and not went into full deep dive on Rhand until recently to assure it. most of today has being me working through my wider POE and decideing if I townread them or not which I did with Axel, Sloth and GF. Eco to a lesser degree. All of them I came out with town or nullish.
Not fully understanding what the issue is apart from me half agreeing with a ZDS post in town Rhand favor which was very early. The rest of that is me seeing him as scum which is the overall consistant tone.
It was mainly his attack on Ter bothered me a lot and a lack of wider picture in the game. It does not feel like he is scum hunting more just semi reacting and just death tunneling Ter.I admit though they is not enough content and it is perhaps his meta which some of you seem to confirm. I have a bad habit of going on these insane tunnels though like I did in Matter because I like to trust my intial view most of the time. But I'm putting that aside for today and see how they do tomorrow since I have no chance of getting it and not had the best history in these tunnels either.
It looks to me like you were indifferent toward Rhand's wagon in facor of something happening, then you agreed with ZDS that he might be town for a reason, then one of your scumreads made points about them being scum (which didn't appear to affect your read on that scumread) now you're scumreading Rhand because of the points HR made plus a whole bunch more that weren't hinted at before 569, and now you're hardreading him over Igno and HR for reasons.