I reread this and still have no clue.
Can someone do something spicy? Maybe start a wagon on me so I can find the scum voting me?
Or anything at all really.
Bit too early for your scummates to start bussing you, isn't it?
Post #108 was really just an attempt to get ignoramus to think out loud to see if he could work out that his reason for scum-reading Axel was bad.
Why did you want to do that?
Are you townreading Axel?
Are you arguing on principle against a bad argument? (If so, what's the point? Can't scum-Axel be "caught for the wrong reasons"?)
Hm. Yeah.
For now, wanna say ZDS is likely town due to irreverence.
Not a big fan of Highroller recent post and vote, mainly because it is the reverse of my own view on Terr, and it feels like a forced read I can't believe he thinks Terr questions on Eco are too much.
Terr went after Ecophagy five times in less than two hours/16 posts. You regard that as a normal amount?
I know Sloth fluffs a bit, but he is really lacking impact. My memory could be wrong, but I remember he had more impact in my other games with him and he was a easy town read for me. This game he lacks impact and comes off a bit nervous and unnatural could be insane here though you all know him better.
Pfff what?
Are you for serious right now?
Clarification: Igno is a {town/scum/null} {lean/read} to you?
You guys both like Jackrito's post? It feels superficial and consensusy to me. Town reading TeRaine and ZDS for "moving the game forward" is weak and vague, town reading Goo is basically free, town reading Eco-who-voted-Jack is classic appeasement. And his scum reads of ignoramus and Highroller (and liking the Rhand wagon) are all the lowest hanging fruit. I know reads have to start somewhere but I'm not seeing valuable, town-indicating analysis.
You think throwing a scumlean net of
HR, Igno (?), Grape, Sloth (the towniest player), Rhand, Axel
However, I kind of feel that scum-TerRaine would have actually voted me because they'd found a "legitimate tell" to push. That they didn't maybe just suggests they're poking things with sticks and processing their reads more internally. So I'm on the scummy-side-of-not-sure, but I need more to make my mind up - preferably some concrete reads.
HR, Igno (?), Grape, Sloth (the towniest player), Rhand, Axel
is "consensusy"?
uuuh yeah? HR and Igno are LHF, Rhand is making himself easy to justify voting, and so is Axel really. I grant the Sloth and Grapefruit are novel, but he equivocates heavily on both of them so it's more just keeping a door open. I don't mean just that the reads align specifically with the thread (which I think they mostly do), but also that the justifications are superficial or convenient. They're all safe reads and the only spicy ones have mitigating fencesitting.
Generally speaking, I would say if a mafioso finds something they can "legitimately" push, they will do so because it looks like scumhunting. Especially if it looks like others may be interested (ZDS as an obvious start). That TerRaine didn't go for the kill but instead kind of drifted off to other things looks more towny than not. Not enough to push her into the green for me, but enough that I'm thinking I might be conf biasing and I want to see more data.
This is not bad for a very early first pass. Except I have ignoramus lower than you do apparently.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Does that mean you support prodding at the bottom three names? Will you vote one of them?
I am, in fact, doing that! Though admittedly not in a "prodding" kind of way. I just haven't seen a compelling reason to move the vote yet.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Post #108 was really just an attempt to get ignoramus to think out loud to see if he could work out that his reason for scum-reading Axel was bad.
Why did you want to do that?
Are you townreading Axel?
Are you arguing on principle against a bad argument? (If so, what's the point? Can't scum-Axel be "caught for the wrong reasons"?)
Hm. Yeah.
For now, wanna say ZDS is likely town due to irreverence.
You and your SAT words. Why is this an example of irreverence though?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Sloth: Given you think Rhand is scum, what do you think of the people who voted him when asked?
And in the hypothetical vaccuum world, what do you think the fact that Rhand almost got up to claim range so quickly does for his alignment?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I neither like nor believe Highroller's vote on TerRaine. Lots of charged and overly-dramatic language, which makes me doubt that Highroller doesn't know Ecophagy's alignment.
This appears to be it.
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
You think he's chainsawing Eco?
A little of A, a little of B.
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Even though I have stronger scumreads on him and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment. I don't really buy the "boo hoo I don't know what to do" song and dance from him. He can do literally anything to throw people in a tizzy and get content going. Right now he can comment on Jackrito's wall, Highroller's vote and defense + TerRaine's response, ZDS' general mannerisms, my claim and reads, and so on.
HR, Igno (?), Grape, Sloth (the towniest player), Rhand, Axel
is "consensusy"?
uuuh yeah? HR and Igno are LHF, Rhand is making himself easy to justify voting, and so is Axel really. I grant the Sloth and Grapefruit are novel, but he equivocates heavily on both of them so it's more just keeping a door open. I don't mean just that the reads align specifically with the thread (which I think they mostly do), but also that the justifications are superficial or convenient. They're all safe reads and the only spicy ones have mitigating fencesitting.
Generally speaking, I would say if a mafioso finds something they can "legitimately" push, they will do so because it looks like scumhunting. Especially if it looks like others may be interested (ZDS as an obvious start). That TerRaine didn't go for the kill but instead kind of drifted off to other things looks more towny than not. Not enough to push her into the green for me, but enough that I'm thinking I might be conf biasing and I want to see more data.
...This is such a weird stance to take I swear. o.o
Post #108 was really just an attempt to get ignoramus to think out loud to see if he could work out that his reason for scum-reading Axel was bad.
Why did you want to do that?
Are you townreading Axel?
Are you arguing on principle against a bad argument? (If so, what's the point? Can't scum-Axel be "caught for the wrong reasons"?)
Hm. Yeah.
For now, wanna say ZDS is likely town due to irreverence.
You and your SAT words. Why is this an example of irreverence though?
The questions are pointless and bring nothing to the table regardless.
But I believe that ZDS believes something might be revealed by the prodding.
He's like one of those treasure hunters panning for gold in a dirty river, knee deep in grime and working way-too-hard for what might maybe be a tiny speckle of gold.
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
2. Jackrito - A wild Jackrito appeared..quite a bit quicker than I anticipated after my question.
I don’t hate #265. Reads seem reasonable and supported from my memory. I would prefer to see quotes or at least post numbers pointing back to the moments he’s saying though
He’s not wrong on providing self meta being a flawed use of meta hunting but I will point out I believe Igno was directly answering a question posed of her. So this is less a point against Igno should be one against Sloth who was the one who asked for it.
I’m not a meta hunter cause that’s more homework than I feel like doing and I’m not good at it. Jack if you’re opening that can of worms though why not just ask for previous games or if someone who’s played with Igno can deny or confirm?
#267 I agree with but it’s also very similar to what I said…so maybe I’m just right or maybe he’s just pocketing. For now inclined to embrace hubris and believe I’m right
#279 Able to defend his vote with sound reasoning. Doesn’t seem hedgy or jumpy. Comes across as confident town.
3. gooLagoon - I like the quid pro quo questioning in #254. That my answer was what he expected (#282) but he followed up to get a clearer picture is townie to me. He’s not just asking questions to appears present. He’s following up.
I was getting more at something like, what have you noticed about his play so far? Does he seem too careful, is he going after easy targets, is he softballing anyone, do any of his thoughts match yours? Things like that.
Can I answer this with see my ZDS read below?
I wouldn’t say too careful…I do frown a bit at his Rhand read. We seem to be in similarish places on Jack
I like Goo’s point on Eco being oddly hands off in his approach of me. Not saying there should be a OMGUS vote for pressing him but there also seems to be little effort to figure me out.
#284 I will point out I’m trying to squeeze out content but I am also one of the eejits that keeps pumping gifs in. Cause they’re fun.
4. ZeDorkSlipeur - #274 is all relatively sound….I get his reasoning. Obviously not as shrugging off of Rhand as he is but I can see where he came to his conclusions. It’’s as a said before…this all seems from a very Town mindset but I can’t ever fully say “oh yea ZDS is lock town” cause I’ve seen him act “lock town” as scum.
@Ter: You are obviously giving Eco the stink eye, any reason you are not *actually* going after him?
Mostly getting my feet under myself in the game. Had yet to sit down and do a read and pull together in-depth thoughts. Like I said early on in my allegedly “abnormal” push on eco…I wasn’t sure if what I was seeing was AI or just a play I found detrimental to town.
If the ground looks soft…Imma poke at it and see what happens and if anything crawls out of it and if others do the same.
I was her scumbuddy once (Prison Block II on this site) and she was really awkward when we (well mostly I) bussed Goo or when she bussed me. So, no.
...rude. I happen to think I was fairly good scum that game
5. Slothful - Imma need him to do more. Fluff was fun but done is done as I’ve already said. I don’t wanna say this is scummy Sloth cause last scummy sloth I played with was actually more…present. This is coming across more like he just hasn’t bothered diving into the game…
…which annoys me on principal cause you are the one who told me to play this round.
What I can come up with is mostly gut and metal which I do not like
Hun, I have made it blatantly clear I don't feel like talking about it openly right now.
If such a thing is unacceptable to you, feel free to vote me
…god I ******* hate you. This is not enough to vote you and you god damned know that. I will defer to whatever gambit yer running for now.
If you won’t talk about this openly can I get your thoughts on the claim of goo and more importantly other players reactions to it?
6. ignoramus - #269 I don’t hate this question actually. Shows she’s putting some thought into team building already which while largely shooting in the [i]dark pre any flips is game solvey and townie.
#264: eh my question was more for Jack given the time spent in cell chat but thanks for answering anyway. Did you do any spec in that after?
Not much to form here so far for me.
8. Grapefruit21-Need more stuff
9. Highroller - I do find the concept of me nudging Eco on his plays as some sort of crazy tunnel as highly hilarious…but as I write this I’m not sure if its bad scum thinking they found something to seize on and snowball into a big deal or if its bad town not realizing that this is just the way I am cause he’s never played with me.
I’d recommend he take a look at my past games or ask players here. My favorite way of putting it was Tom’s “Obstinate seems to be her main personality trait.”
I tunnel. It’s how I play for better or worse.
#268 he is literally doing the same thing he says makes me scummy. I find this funny too.
All that being said i do like his challenge of Ecos “I don’t believe you”
10. Rhand - I feel like he keeps down playing his reads and it feels hedgey. We’re at a point in the game that there’s content and if its not content he’s able to pull something out of I don’t get why he’s not asking questions to steer it in a direction he can get something from.
The closet he came was “hey wagon me and I’ll see if I can pick out scum from it!”
But when we do its a wagon to no where and he does nothing with it.
His read wall has some content too so…again hedging by calling it nothingness.
He finally starts asking questions which is nice but…not a fan of the passive approach.
11. Axelrod - #275/6 are bad. Shot him right down on my list.
I do not like this at all. Comes off as defensive and triggered. No one said anything about counterclaiming…so why the bristled reaction?
#277 - calls Jack’s reads weak and appeasing…but isn’t offering anything to counter them. It all seems to be “I don’t like Jack’s posts but can refute anything on it.” He claims theres nothing of value in Jack’s read by providing nothing of value to show why they could be wrong
It's somewhat sad that trying to be nice to help a new player is immediately suspected as pocketing, but I suppose that's the game.
ETA. It’s not sad at all. It’s the name of the game.
#286 - His “rolling a read on TerRaine around” comes across as convenient as it only happens AFTER Goo calls him out on being reactionary and then silent on my presence
He throws shade my way but then hedges with saying a scum me would have used this and claimed it a legitimate tell. I said from the start I didn’t see it as a tell but more a odd blip to be prodded. His read on me basically just vomits back what I’ve already said. Theres no meat here
@Sloth: Given you think Rhand is scum, (1)what do you think of the people who voted him when asked?
And (2)in the hypothetical vaccuum world, what do you think the fact that Rhand almost got up to claim range so quickly does for his alignment?
It means I'm very interested in them.
Vaimes/Ter/you, right?
Not much to see there yet.
I don't like sorting Ter out quickly, it's always wrong.
I'm...curious about Vaimes, I'm noticing something, but it may be explained by him saying he wouldn't fluff much this game. The Cop claim is interesting, and potentially feels baity.
I'm still curious about your response to me on the Grape stuff. I believe the reasoning you gave, I'm not too sure you arrive at that reasoning without TMI.
What do you mean "vacuum world"? A world where we dont have any info or any information?
Would probably indicate that he's town and at least one scum jumped in.
However, context matters and it all happened pretty much within minutes of Rhand asking for it.
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
You think he's chainsawing Eco?
A little of A, a little of B.
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Even though I have stronger scumreads on him and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment. I don't really buy the "boo hoo I don't know what to do" song and dance from him. He can do literally anything to throw people in a tizzy and get content going. Right now he can comment on Jackrito's wall, Highroller's vote and defense + TerRaine's response, ZDS' general mannerisms, my claim and reads, and so on.
Hm. Ok.
I agree with you on Rhand. Though I can empathize with the idea that nothing was really happening (I thought so too) I wasn't a huge fan of his choice/reaction to complain about it instead of doing something about it.
Eco actually called that out. Do you think Eco was bussing there?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Post #108 was really just an attempt to get ignoramus to think out loud to see if he could work out that his reason for scum-reading Axel was bad.
Why did you want to do that?
Are you townreading Axel?
Are you arguing on principle against a bad argument? (If so, what's the point? Can't scum-Axel be "caught for the wrong reasons"?)
Hm. Yeah.
For now, wanna say ZDS is likely town due to irreverence.
You and your SAT words. Why is this an example of irreverence though?
The questions are pointless and bring nothing to the table regardless.
But I believe that ZDS believes something might be revealed by the prodding.
He's like one of those treasure hunters panning for gold in a dirty river, knee deep in grime and working way-too-hard for what might maybe be a tiny speckle of gold.
That could be used to describe me once upon a time. ZDS's questions are usually fairly well thought out in my experience with him. Can I get a couple examples of questions you think are pointless and why?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Sloth: Given you think Rhand is scum, (1)what do you think of the people who voted him when asked?
And (2)in the hypothetical vaccuum world, what do you think the fact that Rhand almost got up to claim range so quickly does for his alignment?
It means I'm very interested in them.
Vaimes/Ter/you, right?
Not much to see there yet.
I don't like sorting Ter out quickly, it's always wrong.
I'm...curious about Vaimes, I'm noticing something, but it may be explained by him saying he wouldn't fluff much this game. The Cop claim is interesting, and potentially feels baity.
I'm still curious about your response to me on the Grape stuff. I believe the reasoning you gave, I'm not too sure you arrive at that reasoning without TMI.
What do you mean "vacuum world"? A world where we dont have any info or any information?
Would probably indicate that he's town and at least one scum jumped in.
However, context matters and it all happened pretty much within minutes of Rhand asking for it.
How are you saying I have TMI?
But yes, in the vacuum world where you don't know Rhand's alignment and he could be town. Are you not taking things like that into consideration when trying to solve him?
@Ter: In your experience with Sloth, how much does prejudgement usually affect his reads?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Instead KJ can be town. I don't want to believe this because I have a hard time imaging town really thinking I day vigged them here, but his reaction was so genuine. If he was scum and decided to pretend like he believed he was dead then whatever. We can figure that out later for now I will bust out my bull whip for anyone who comes after KJ. Also I wasn't trying to fake a day vig and I'm mildly confused as to how anyone thought I was?
I'm having a hard time following this read, or at least the strength of it.
It's clearly out of the ordinary in that he, or anyone, would think that a gif alone was you triggering a Daykill, so I don't know why or what about his reaction is supposed to be genuine/town? It's too early to tell how scum or town would react to that, given how silly it is. So deciding this early to townshield someone over an interaction that is very much NAI rings hollow.
As either alignment, I would expect [real or fake] anger there if they actually believed they had been shot so early on Day 1, but KJ kept fluffing. It made me think he was joking in return, at least after the intial "wait am I dead" reaction.
I should clarify this I guess.
I usually reserve my anger, if it occurs, for AFTER things happen. Even so, I'm not generally an angry person. Extreme annoyance, or frustration, sure. Very rarely anger. It takes a lot to make me angry. Getting killed early in a game that's supposed to be fun would not have provoked any kind of significant angry reaction from me.
Like I said earlier, I didn't believe it initially, but then Sloth made that (sarcastic, I guess) response and Grape made a post about meaning no ill will towards me or something and I doubted a bit. It could have been privately activated, and he posted the gif to announce his use of his ability to everyone here (and for funsies). I didn't directly think the gif WAS the ability.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Other general, scattered thoughts [mostly from this page]--
Maintaining my TerRaine townread. Based off memory alone, she's one of the few trying to squeeze content out of this gif-infested thread.
Highroller/Ecophagy/Rhand team? A little less sure on Rhand, because no one has really been attacked for the naked vote there.
I neither like nor believe Highroller's vote on TerRaine. Lots of charged and overly-dramatic language, which makes me doubt that Highroller doesn't know Ecophagy's alignment.
I think Jackrito is town. His early rambly wall feels genuine, and he's already sticking his neck out more than he did in his last scumgame. That Ecophagy was calling people out for liking Jackrito makes me even more sure he's town. Small nitpick, but I could see a world where scum!Jackrito is buddying me due to my claim, but other slots' reactions to Jackrito makes me doubt that world.
I don't think I have any stronger opinions elsewhere. I'd like to see more serious reads/votes/content from Slothful and Grapefruit. Axelrod gets a minor pass from me because I never know how to townread his Day 1 play.
This post keeps bugging me. Not just that word “townread”, which following his explanation should still be “read”; it seems like he knows Axel is town and is looking for a reason to start townreading him.
But also that Jackrito read. That Jackrito post had way too much suspicion in it for the content that was in thread at that point. I don’t understand how you can arrive to a town clear there.
Same for ZDS and Axel to a degree, but Vaimes goes for a town clear here, which is very premature.
Axel just agreeing with Vaimes’ readslist without adding any input feels like buddying. Axel/Vaimes not a thing probably because just quoting a buddy’s readslist and saying “I agree” seems like something mafia doesn’t do.
I think Eco and KJ are town. Eco has thought processes that are easy to follow and make a lot of sense.
And KJ is doing his usual thing where he questions everything.
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
You think he's chainsawing Eco?
A little of A, a little of B.
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Even though I have stronger scumreads on him and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment. I don't really buy the "boo hoo I don't know what to do" song and dance from him. He can do literally anything to throw people in a tizzy and get content going. Right now he can comment on Jackrito's wall, Highroller's vote and defense + TerRaine's response, ZDS' general mannerisms, my claim and reads, and so on.
I did do things to get content going. I made people talk about me. With lack of other reads, getting people to talk about myself is the best way to get reads on them.
And I can tell you I don’t like your approach. You’re taking the easy route here, throwing me into your suspicions without taking a real stance. But while you say I am not your strongest read, you are not voting the ones that are.
I’m also having problems with Terraine because her whole worldview is more or less mine reversed. And her reaction to me is bad in a similar way as Vaimes’ is.
I’m running out of time, my train is going to arrive soon.
Still haven't read. Will try to get some posts in tonight but @Rhand why am I in your top town group? I know it's only town leans but still curious why you have me that high.
That TerRaine didn't go for the kill but instead kind of drifted off to other things looks more towny than not. Not enough to push her into the green for me, but enough that I'm thinking I might be conf biasing and I want to see more data.
We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool.
The battle lines are drawn. I think this is an unusual amount of opposite-read groups for D1, but it is at least organic. Conventional wisdom would suggest there are mafia in the in-between group - of which I would call Grapefruit the best fit because a weak town-Eco read is closest to supporting a "side" without committment. KJ also hasn't come out with particularly hard reads ("Eco/Ter maybe not w/w?" is not groundbreaking).
I would like to know:
Axelrod - How do you feel about being low on the reads list of your town reads?
Highroller - What do you think about Rhand?
Jackrito - Your town reads disagree with you about Ecophagy. Do you think they're wrong?
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Anyone but Highroller and I'd be more inclined to agree. But you know Highroller's meta is to go straight to 100 and never back down.
We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool.
Negative. Hedging in general remains scummy. In this particular instance I would have expected scum to seize the opportunity to make a "justifiable" vote in the early game. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
So I’m TMI’ing that Axelrod is a villager? But he’s buddying me? And you’re right, “Rhand is a weak scumread that I’d rather figure out” isn’t a stance, it’s a read in motion. I think that’s a more productive use of my time rather than parking my vote on Ecophagy or Highroller.
In conclusion, I’m not shocked at the vote, but I am mildly surprised at the complete opposite worldview. That seems more like a calculated move, to be honest, unless one of us is just having a bad game.
If such a thing is unacceptable to you, feel free to vote me
For now, wanna say ZDS is likely town due to irreverence.
You open wolfin' right now, m'dude?
Are you for serious right now?
Clarification: Igno is a {town/scum/null} {lean/read} to you?
uuuh yeah? HR and Igno are LHF, Rhand is making himself easy to justify voting, and so is Axel really. I grant the Sloth and Grapefruit are novel, but he equivocates heavily on both of them so it's more just keeping a door open. I don't mean just that the reads align specifically with the thread (which I think they mostly do), but also that the justifications are superficial or convenient. They're all safe reads and the only spicy ones have mitigating fencesitting.
Generally speaking, I would say if a mafioso finds something they can "legitimately" push, they will do so because it looks like scumhunting. Especially if it looks like others may be interested (ZDS as an obvious start). That TerRaine didn't go for the kill but instead kind of drifted off to other things looks more towny than not. Not enough to push her into the green for me, but enough that I'm thinking I might be conf biasing and I want to see more data.
Is Ecophagy more likely to be a villager or mafia? Since Grape popped in to give an empty read.
@Axel: Where is Igno on that list, and are you willing to commit to everyone's placement on it being exact to Lagoons aside from Igno?
@Sloth: Given you think Rhand is scum, what do you think of the people who voted him when asked?
And in the hypothetical vaccuum world, what do you think the fact that Rhand almost got up to claim range so quickly does for his alignment?
Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.
You think he's chainsawing Eco?
I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.
Even though I have stronger scumreads on him and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment. I don't really buy the "boo hoo I don't know what to do" song and dance from him. He can do literally anything to throw people in a tizzy and get content going. Right now he can comment on Jackrito's wall, Highroller's vote and defense + TerRaine's response, ZDS' general mannerisms, my claim and reads, and so on.
...This is such a weird stance to take I swear. o.o
Like, does he have a car?
But I believe that ZDS believes something might be revealed by the prodding.
He's like one of those treasure hunters panning for gold in a dirty river, knee deep in grime and working way-too-hard for what might maybe be a tiny speckle of gold.
What's chainsawing again?
2. Jackrito - A wild Jackrito appeared..quite a bit quicker than I anticipated after my question.
I don’t hate #265. Reads seem reasonable and supported from my memory. I would prefer to see quotes or at least post numbers pointing back to the moments he’s saying though
He’s not wrong on providing self meta being a flawed use of meta hunting but I will point out I believe Igno was directly answering a question posed of her. So this is less a point against Igno should be one against Sloth who was the one who asked for it.
I’m not a meta hunter cause that’s more homework than I feel like doing and I’m not good at it. Jack if you’re opening that can of worms though why not just ask for previous games or if someone who’s played with Igno can deny or confirm?
#267 I agree with but it’s also very similar to what I said…so maybe I’m just right or maybe he’s just pocketing. For now inclined to embrace hubris and believe I’m right
#279 Able to defend his vote with sound reasoning. Doesn’t seem hedgy or jumpy. Comes across as confident town.
3. gooLagoon - I like the quid pro quo questioning in #254. That my answer was what he expected (#282) but he followed up to get a clearer picture is townie to me. He’s not just asking questions to appears present. He’s following up.
Can I answer this with see my ZDS read below?
I wouldn’t say too careful…I do frown a bit at his Rhand read. We seem to be in similarish places on Jack
I like Goo’s point on Eco being oddly hands off in his approach of me. Not saying there should be a OMGUS vote for pressing him but there also seems to be little effort to figure me out.
#284 I will point out I’m trying to squeeze out content but I am also one of the eejits that keeps pumping gifs in. Cause they’re fun.
4. ZeDorkSlipeur - #274 is all relatively sound….I get his reasoning. Obviously not as shrugging off of Rhand as he is but I can see where he came to his conclusions. It’’s as a said before…this all seems from a very Town mindset but I can’t ever fully say “oh yea ZDS is lock town” cause I’ve seen him act “lock town” as scum.
Mostly getting my feet under myself in the game. Had yet to sit down and do a read and pull together in-depth thoughts. Like I said early on in my allegedly “abnormal” push on eco…I wasn’t sure if what I was seeing was AI or just a play I found detrimental to town.
If the ground looks soft…Imma poke at it and see what happens and if anything crawls out of it and if others do the same.
...rude. I happen to think I was fairly good scum that game
5. Slothful - Imma need him to do more. Fluff was fun but done is done as I’ve already said. I don’t wanna say this is scummy Sloth cause last scummy sloth I played with was actually more…present. This is coming across more like he just hasn’t bothered diving into the game…
…which annoys me on principal cause you are the one who told me to play this round.
What I can come up with is mostly gut and metal which I do not like
…god I ******* hate you. This is not enough to vote you and you god damned know that. I will defer to whatever gambit yer running for now.
If you won’t talk about this openly can I get your thoughts on the claim of goo and more importantly other players reactions to it?
6. ignoramus - #269 I don’t hate this question actually. Shows she’s putting some thought into team building already which while largely shooting in the [i]dark pre any flips is game solvey and townie.
7. Killjoy
#264: eh my question was more for Jack given the time spent in cell chat but thanks for answering anyway. Did you do any spec in that after?
Not much to form here so far for me.
8. Grapefruit21-Need more stuff
9. Highroller - I do find the concept of me nudging Eco on his plays as some sort of crazy tunnel as highly hilarious…but as I write this I’m not sure if its bad scum thinking they found something to seize on and snowball into a big deal or if its bad town not realizing that this is just the way I am cause he’s never played with me.
I’d recommend he take a look at my past games or ask players here. My favorite way of putting it was Tom’s “Obstinate seems to be her main personality trait.”
I tunnel. It’s how I play for better or worse.
#268 he is literally doing the same thing he says makes me scummy. I find this funny too.
All that being said i do like his challenge of Ecos “I don’t believe you”
10. Rhand - I feel like he keeps down playing his reads and it feels hedgey. We’re at a point in the game that there’s content and if its not content he’s able to pull something out of I don’t get why he’s not asking questions to steer it in a direction he can get something from.
The closet he came was “hey wagon me and I’ll see if I can pick out scum from it!”
But when we do its a wagon to no where and he does nothing with it.
His read wall has some content too so…again hedging by calling it nothingness.
He finally starts asking questions which is nice but…not a fan of the passive approach.
11. Axelrod - #275/6 are bad. Shot him right down on my list.
12. Ecophagy -
I do not like this at all. Comes off as defensive and triggered. No one said anything about counterclaiming…so why the bristled reaction?
#277 - calls Jack’s reads weak and appeasing…but isn’t offering anything to counter them. It all seems to be “I don’t like Jack’s posts but can refute anything on it.” He claims theres nothing of value in Jack’s read by providing nothing of value to show why they could be wrong
ETA. It’s not sad at all. It’s the name of the game.
#286 - His “rolling a read on TerRaine around” comes across as convenient as it only happens AFTER Goo calls him out on being reactionary and then silent on my presence
He throws shade my way but then hedges with saying a scum me would have used this and claimed it a legitimate tell. I said from the start I didn’t see it as a tell but more a odd blip to be prodded. His read on me basically just vomits back what I’ve already said. Theres no meat here
UNVOTE
VOTE Ecophagy
Vaimes/Ter/you, right?
Not much to see there yet.
I don't like sorting Ter out quickly, it's always wrong.
I'm...curious about Vaimes, I'm noticing something, but it may be explained by him saying he wouldn't fluff much this game. The Cop claim is interesting, and potentially feels baity.
I'm still curious about your response to me on the Grape stuff. I believe the reasoning you gave, I'm not too sure you arrive at that reasoning without TMI.
What do you mean "vacuum world"? A world where we dont have any info or any information?
Would probably indicate that he's town and at least one scum jumped in.
However, context matters and it all happened pretty much within minutes of Rhand asking for it.
Hm. Ok.
I agree with you on Rhand. Though I can empathize with the idea that nothing was really happening (I thought so too) I wasn't a huge fan of his choice/reaction to complain about it instead of doing something about it.
Eco actually called that out. Do you think Eco was bussing there?
But yes, in the vacuum world where you don't know Rhand's alignment and he could be town. Are you not taking things like that into consideration when trying to solve him?
@Ter: In your experience with Sloth, how much does prejudgement usually affect his reads?
....I mean I say very clearly what I like about 269 right after I say I like it.
"Shows they're putting some thought into team building already which while largely shooting in the dark pre any flips is game solvey and townie"
as for 275/276
...that sounds more like me than him.
Do you think if that was the case, it would be more indicative of scum!Sloth than town Sloth?
I usually reserve my anger, if it occurs, for AFTER things happen. Even so, I'm not generally an angry person. Extreme annoyance, or frustration, sure. Very rarely anger. It takes a lot to make me angry. Getting killed early in a game that's supposed to be fun would not have provoked any kind of significant angry reaction from me.
Like I said earlier, I didn't believe it initially, but then Sloth made that (sarcastic, I guess) response and Grape made a post about meaning no ill will towards me or something and I doubted a bit. It could have been privately activated, and he posted the gif to announce his use of his ability to everyone here (and for funsies). I didn't directly think the gif WAS the ability.
Getting ready for work now and I have to start all over.
Will try again on the train.
This post keeps bugging me. Not just that word “townread”, which following his explanation should still be “read”; it seems like he knows Axel is town and is looking for a reason to start townreading him.
But also that Jackrito read. That Jackrito post had way too much suspicion in it for the content that was in thread at that point. I don’t understand how you can arrive to a town clear there.
Same for ZDS and Axel to a degree, but Vaimes goes for a town clear here, which is very premature.
Axel just agreeing with Vaimes’ readslist without adding any input feels like buddying. Axel/Vaimes not a thing probably because just quoting a buddy’s readslist and saying “I agree” seems like something mafia doesn’t do.
I think Eco and KJ are town. Eco has thought processes that are easy to follow and make a lot of sense.
And KJ is doing his usual thing where he questions everything.
I did do things to get content going. I made people talk about me. With lack of other reads, getting people to talk about myself is the best way to get reads on them.
And I can tell you I don’t like your approach. You’re taking the easy route here, throwing me into your suspicions without taking a real stance. But while you say I am not your strongest read, you are not voting the ones that are.
I’m also having problems with Terraine because her whole worldview is more or less mine reversed. And her reaction to me is bad in a similar way as Vaimes’ is.
I’m running out of time, my train is going to arrive soon.
Quick worldview:
Town lean
Eco
KJ
Grape
Null
Ignoramus
ZDS
Sloth
HR
Lean mafia
Axel
Jacrito
Terraine
Vaimes
Vaimes / Axel probably not together
vote: gooLagoon
Sorry guys, it's been a pretty eventful weekend. I'll have to post a more substantial post tomorrow, I just wanted to comment on this.
We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool.
I would like to know:
Anyone but Highroller and I'd be more inclined to agree. But you know Highroller's meta is to go straight to 100 and never back down.
Why is that? It seems like a solid piece of mafia theory to me, but if you disagree I'm interested in that discussion.
Negative. Hedging in general remains scummy. In this particular instance I would have expected scum to seize the opportunity to make a "justifiable" vote in the early game. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
In conclusion, I’m not shocked at the vote, but I am mildly surprised at the complete opposite worldview. That seems more like a calculated move, to be honest, unless one of us is just having a bad game.