Yeah that game was disgraceful by me. I've had a few of them lately but that was especially bad. Almost as bad as the team event we did a few years back.
I've had a few awesome scum wins but they are depressingly long ago. Time to change that.
It's fun having HR and Rhand in the game. I believe they are the two players on opposite poles when it comes to reading me. I don't think Rhand has ever not had a strong read on me by the end of D1. Doesn't mean he's been right, just always confident.
@HR there are a limited number of things to decide. I'm sure you could make a decent guess as to what they could be. Now angel of death in a bit more ambiguous.
Small town read on Wisp and HR. Minor scum ping on Rhand.
And this happened before ZDS made his move.
That “minor scum ping on Rhand” would be incentive for mafia!ZDS to launch an attack. I don’t think it works the other way around?
I think it makes more sense if Grape is misguided town that saw someone talk about his scum read and figured that that was “solid” just because of who the post was about.
@GJ
ya well, you also didn't say, "No it isn't?"
there are townier ways to disagree with opinions outside just straight up attacking them without giving your thoughts,
now if had asked grape why he thought that, while excluding the shade, my opinion would be different, hence why I don't hate the fact that you disagree not particularly keen on what you have been doing so far though
but it's still early in the day
Ohh no he said
"I am town too, what a coincidence"
Das ist so fake
Kek
My first post wasn't even a read on GJ, it was literally me making a statement. And I'm not omnipotent here, I'm finna have thoughts on people's entrances, I'm just not going to hold much weight on them. Or if I do, it will be mostly townie reads, since they are easier to find
Rhand looks worse because he shut down Grape's thoughts with, "No it's not", in regards to ZDS's post, instead of writing anything meaningful to attack it with, feels less like trying to solve and more like trying to shade
@GJ
ya well, you also didn't say, "No it isn't?"
there are townier ways to disagree with opinions outside just straight up attacking them without giving your thoughts,
now if had asked grape why he thought that, while excluding the shade, my opinion would be different, hence why I don't hate the fact that you disagree
not particularly keen on what you have been doing so far though
but it's still early in the day
have you read the post just above the one you’re talking about?
Gun to my head, natural adverse action. Especially this early. I don't think it's a serious attempt to discredit this early into it, especially when you have at least one player claiming a town read on you.
OK, thanks for answering, I'll take your opinion into account.
@ZDS look at Wisp’s answers and tell me again how my question isn’t game related? It is just as much game related as asking someone why they didn’t ask the mod a question.
I still don’t get why you post both the question and the answer in one post rather than deleting the question when you see it’s answered.
OMGUS can be a natural adverse reaction to what you feel is an unfair attack, or it can be a calculated attempt to discredit both the attack and the attacker.
Which one do you think Rhand is doing?
I'm not going to jump at your throat if I don't like your answer... as long as you actually commit to a stance and stop the "on the one hand this, on the other hand that" dance.
Interesting question. I would like to see your own answer to it as well.
I’m pretty sure the bolded means ZDS and GJ are unaligned.
1) Whispy's answer to you is purely theoretical ("let's say, I think GJ's entrance looks tonally off", "like I could say, that Pokechu trying to find an early argument for voting Grape looks bad, BUT then they just say "OMGUS VOTE, so I don't know"), so my point stands. That said I buy the confusion in #32, so maybe you did expect to somehow get something useful out of your question .
2) I think it's important to get my thought processes and scumdar pings in the open, and I'm curious if HR has anything to say about it. I admit my intent wasn't clear, sometimes I'm too hasty.
3) Based on personal bias you should die in a fire for (essentially) calling me a hypocrite and for saying my attack is bad. Also you remind me of CC's OMGUSing me in early Snow White, only you are more soft.
I don't think ZDS is a wolf off of this. I can't really expand this idea further, but he reminds me of me (arrogant bastard that I am).
Of the whole page 1, I probably like Grape the least so far.
My feeling is that mafia!ZDS saw town!Grape say he had a light scum ping on me and figured that a push in my direction would get a following.
I actually didn't pay attention to the reads at the end of #28 until the "townish too" in #31 made me check if I had missed something. Hence why I asked about his reads in #34 rather than in my first post.
(Also, I'm offended by the implied accusation that I'm wagonning Grape)
———
Unvote
I think there's a good chance Rhand meant well, so I'm cutting him some slack.
I don't get major pings either way from the other currently active posters (Johnny and Whispy).
Yeah that game was disgraceful by me. I've had a few of them lately but that was especially bad. Almost as bad as the team event we did a few years back.
I've had a few awesome scum wins but they are depressingly long ago. Time to change that.
It's fun having HR and Rhand in the game. I believe they are the two players on opposite poles when it comes to reading me. I don't think Rhand has ever not had a strong read on me by the end of D1. Doesn't mean he's been right, just always confident.
@HR there are a limited number of things to decide. I'm sure you could make a decent guess as to what they could be. Now angel of death in a bit more ambiguous.
Small town read on Wisp and HR. Minor scum ping on Rhand.
And this happened before ZDS made his move.
That “minor scum ping on Rhand” would be incentive for mafia!ZDS to launch an attack. I don’t think it works the other way around?
I think it makes more sense if Grape is misguided town that saw someone talk about his scum read and figured that that was “solid” just because of who the post was about.
I think you are putting way too much stock into the first page of posts that people make. Fair enough though on him pinging you before ZDS's point.
Highroller, this is the perfect type of game to branch out and try to post more than once every other day. Especially before I lose my computer and have to resort to phone typing.
It was actually two things. One was suspecting you (for largely the same reason if not the same actual posts, for me it was the mechanical talk more than the LW softball which was fine.) but the more important one was the process on LW. I think he drew the exact wrong conclusion from it but I don't think that scum would speculate about his claim like that and decide to push him over it. It just felt like town trying to play the possibilities with LW openly talking about his role.
Also it may just be my perception that you have strong reads on me and not match reality at all.
Speaking of which, can you expand on your reads at the end of #28?
No. Well not HR. Wisp I kind of did to Rhand there but basically the gist of it is a tone read combined with the claim. Wisp loves to claim and is rather fearless about it (see claiming something called angel of death here) but the lack of agenda here is what tipped it towards town for me. He didn't do anything with it. Just dropped it in the thread. Scum!LW probably does something with it.
@Game talk to me about Johnny. I feel like I should read into 55 but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading.
It was actually two things. One was suspecting you (for largely the same reason if not the same actual posts, for me it was the mechanical talk more than the LW softball which was fine.) but the more important one was the process on LW. I think he drew the exact wrong conclusion from it but I don't think that scum would speculate about his claim like that and decide to push him over it. It just felt like town trying to play the possibilities with LW openly talking about his role.
Dude, that was post 20. If he was talking mechanics on post 400, then I could at least see it as busy work, trying to look hunty.
The bolded, which is the more important one per you, I don't understand what you are saying.
Also I am here, you are reading. Talk to me. I am dying for interaction and trying not to spam the thread for once. So people like HR and you don't feel overwhelmed.
Dude, that was post 20. If he was talking mechanics on post 400, then I could at least see it as busy work, trying to look hunty.
The bolded, which is the more important one per you, I don't understand what you are saying.
Also I am here, you are reading. Talk to me. I am dying for interaction and trying not to spam the thread for once. So people like HR and you don't feel overwhelmed.
I get that it was post 20 but I thought there were a few interesting threads to pursue even at that stage that Rhand showed no interest in. Notably HR's musings about a decider and Wisp. Pokechu not realizing I voted myself also might have been worth a poke. And I do get that what's interesting is subjective, which is why all it garnered is a FoS not a vote.
As for the game itself: in a micro like this the first day has a heightened importance so while I might be projecting I'd expect a twitchy RVS. We have had a little of that (see Rhand and ZDS and you a bit) but you brushing things off as putting too much importance in the first x posts when there aren't really votes flying just feels off to me. But I also sort of want to town read as you're relaxed and didn't get too defensive when you realized I'd said Rhand pinged me before ZDS mentioned it. I'm very conflicted.
What's your take on Wisp? To try to explain my ZDS read again I liked his process of drawing a conclusion from Wisp's claim. I think there was something there to dig into and my initial reaction was his, but when I had a second thought I drew the opposite conclusion so I think that ZDS scum reading Wisp for that is a very natural and real thought process even if I disagree.
I get that it was post 20 but I thought there were a few interesting threads to pursue even at that stage that Rhand showed no interest in. Notably HR's musings about a decider and Wisp. Pokechu not realizing I voted myself also might have been worth a poke. And I do get that what's interesting is subjective, which is why all it garnered is a FoS not a vote
Was there really? It was mostly ***** posting and me *****ing about that time us, Wisp and Tubba were wolves. And Highroller complaining about not doing his flavor thing. Nothing really struck to me as conversation until ZDS came in and voted Rhand, and Rhand OMGUS'd ZDS.
As for the game itself: in a micro like this the first day has a heightened importance so while I might be projecting I'd expect a twitchy RVS. We have had a little of that (see Rhand and ZDS and you a bit) but you brushing things off as putting too much importance in the first x posts when there aren't really votes flying just feels off to me. But I also sort of want to town read as you're relaxed and didn't get too defensive when you realized I'd said Rhand pinged me before ZDS mentioned it. I'm very conflicted.
Yeah, but it doesn't help when people aren't posting that much. Like, have Highroller or Poke actually made a post that wasn't a goof off post? It's a 7 player game, maybe both of them are wolves and everyone else talking is town (I don't actually believe that. But they are obviously rand alignment in my mind).
For the record, I usually ***** about the speed of the game being too slow. I find it amusing that I am almost taking the opposite approach. Shorter game or not.
But I also sort of want to town read as you're relaxed and didn't get too defensive when you realized I'd said Rhand pinged me before ZDS mentioned it. I'm very conflicted.
Why? The doesn't make sense. I don't typically get defensive when I am a wolf. And town frustration doesn't build until I have more than 2 people pressuring me for what I think is bull*****. I wasn't very relaxed in our game when day 4 came around and shadow was still alive.
As far as my read on Wisp goes, it's relatively null. He hasn't really pinged me one way or the other.
I thought a few things were interesting, the way HR approached not being able to do his normal thing, Wisps reaction, and Rhand speculating. But they were only minorly interesting so I can accept people reacting differently. Rhand's nonchalance just stuck out to me though maybe yours should have too. I think why I was especially interested by Rhand's is that he wasn't just messing around like you were, it's that he was not chilling but also not poking and prodding.
And fair enough on the speed of the game.
Does your ZDS read change at all with the knowledge that I stated suspicion of Rhand before he did?
No. You just blanketly said scum ping, while ZDS actually went into detail into why he didn't like Rhand.
It's not that I didn't care about Highroller's despair and not getting the full value of whatever flavor claiming he does Actually, I don't care. I don't think it's relevant, it's not worth thinking about, but probably the most important, it's not something I think he says that takes him out of his town or wolf range. I didn't really see any reaction from Wisp or Rhand that would also strike me as more town or wolf in response *shrugs*.
It's why I don't typically enjoy RVS. I could probably strike 40+ posts from the front page (including most of my own) and pretend they don't exist, and I could still probably solve as well as I could normally, if that makes sense.
To me, what I didn't like about your intro is that I don't really get the early wisp town read to the point you disagreed with ZDS. Like, did Wisp get to a point that you felt the need to mention your disagreement?
And what I mean by that is it felt...forced. I don't think you really agree or disagree at that point to mention it, or at least say something that doubts it. You instead took a stronger stance which felt out of place.
No. You just blanketly said scum ping, while ZDS actually went into detail into why he didn't like Rhand.
It's not that I didn't care about Highroller's despair and not getting the full value of whatever flavor claiming he does Actually, I don't care. I don't think it's relevant, it's not worth thinking about, but probably the most important, it's not something I think he says that takes him out of his town or wolf range. I didn't really see any reaction from Wisp or Rhand that would also strike me as more town or wolf in response *shrugs*.
It's why I don't typically enjoy RVS. I could probably strike 40+ posts from the front page (including most of my own) and pretend they don't exist, and I could still probably solve as well as I could normally, if that makes sense.
To me, what I didn't like about your intro is that I don't really get the early wisp town read to the point you disagreed with ZDS. Like, did Wisp get to a point that you felt the need to mention your disagreement?
I think there is a part of HR's reaction that take him out of his likely wolf range but again I want to see more before talking about it or committing fully to the read.
As for the rest, you're not wrong. There is a lot of chaff.
As for mentioning the disagreement I had just called out Wisp as a town read and then said I town read ZDS and my internal reasoning was surrounding his Wisp read so it felt natural to mention.
I think I might wait for other people to post some before doing much else. I don't really care at all about changing your read on me at this stage and you've answered everything I was interested in.
I really don't know what to say at the moment, not getting distinctly scummy vibes from anyone, though a question for @Grapefruit
What exactly is Highroller's wolf range?
Now THIS takes the cake. It's a softball question that is too generic to have anything to do with the game at hand and cannot help determine Whispy's alignment. You might as well ask him if he likes tea or coffee.
Vote: Rhand (serious vote)
Currently leaning towards a Rhand+Whispy team making an awkward attempt at interacting.
Yeah, no.
There's tryhardy, there's really tryhardy, and then there's so tryhardy that you yourself seem to recognize that people are in danger of thinking it's a joke, and so you have to explain that no, you're not joking, because you recognize and pretty much admit yourself that would be the sensible default reaction - because your vote is ridiculous.
I disagree. HR seemed like he was trying to start some pointless speculation, which is scummy because it dilutes the useful info/useless chatter ratio. Then he repented (so to speak) by implying he did ask the mod and dropping the public question entirely — which proved me wrong and, at the same time, made him more townie.
Two problems with this:
1. Trying to figure out THE FUNDAMENTAL MECHANIC OF THIS GAME is pointless?
2. If you were proven wrong in the next sentence you typed in the same post, why post the initial question in the first place?
Ranking vote choices:
Gold: ZeDorkSlippeur
Silver: Grape
Tied for Bronze: Everyone else
I really don't know what to say at the moment, not getting distinctly scummy vibes from anyone, though a question for @Grapefruit
What exactly is Highroller's wolf range?
Not this. Probably. Feel even better after his most recent post.
@HR You didn't answer my question about your role and what you think of it.
Like, I don't know what my role ability is, right? So who do I aim my night ability at? If I were inspector, I'd be going for mafia, but if I hit a town, that's fine because I'd still clear them. If I'm a vigilante, I'd be aiming for mafia and would definitely not risk hitting town. If I'm a doctor or some other protection role, I'd be aiming for town and would not want to hit mafia.
But I have no idea what I am. Therefore, I have no idea who to aim my night ability at.
Since I didn't realize it was brought up, asking questions to the mod in-thread should be "mostly" read as NAI, and honestly completely avoided
I was initially going to say something, but since all I would be doing is attacking the notion, I decided to opt out, since I don't see specifically what makes those specific questions anymore wolfy than townie, aka NAI
It was actually two things. One was suspecting you (for largely the same reason if not the same actual posts, for me it was the mechanical talk more than the LW softball which was fine.) but the more important one was the process on LW. I think he drew the exact wrong conclusion from it but I don't think that scum would speculate about his claim like that and decide to push him over it. It just felt like town trying to play the possibilities with LW openly talking about his role.
Also it may just be my perception that you have strong reads on me and not match reality at all.
Speaking of which, can you expand on your reads at the end of #28?
No. Well not HR. Wisp I kind of did to Rhand there but basically the gist of it is a tone read combined with the claim. Wisp loves to claim and is rather fearless about it (see claiming something called angel of death here) but the lack of agenda here is what tipped it towards town for me. He didn't do anything with it. Just dropped it in the thread. Scum!LW probably does something with it.
@Game talk to me about Johnny. I feel like I should read into 55 but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading.
The bolded: What do you mean largely the same reasons? ZDS made no mention of the mechanical talk and only talked about the softball.
Highroller seems townie. I like where his head is at in regards to that ZDS post and his mechanical frustration sounds real.
@Highroller: I am not going to speculate openly about what your role does but I think I would try to target mafia with a role named decider.
GJ feels fine too. A bit worried that he is trying to pocket me. But I like bouncing thoughts off him and his answers don’t feel malicious.
Wisp, Snoopy still up in the air. Snoopy seemed ok early on but needs to post now that things got real. Wisp needs to draw some real conclusions, it’s almost as if he doesn’t dare to form a scum read on anyone. But that’s not something I’ve seen in Wisp from either alignment as far as I remember, so benefit of the doubt he just doesn’t have reads.
Grape and ZDS probably not mafia together. I would be baffled if they’re both town. Still think ZDS is the more likely mafia here.
@LW I think it's a town HR read and it doesn't change my opinion on ZDS.
Spilling my HR read now. I think he's town because of the natural way he's reacting to the obsfucated mechanics. If he was scum this discussion would be happening in the scum chat as well and anyone but Pokechu (and maybe them too) would have attempted to provide some insight that would have spilled into the game. Not saying they would have convinced him, just saying you would see the wheels turning more than they are. Especially if it was GJ or Wisp.
@Rhand the softball q and the mechanical spec to me were the same thing. Just fluff to stay in the thread with presence. Different posts but the same underlying issue. That said your handling of HR here has me doubting my initial read.
Now THIS takes the cake. It's a softball question that is too generic to have anything to do with the game at hand and cannot help determine Whispy's alignment. You might as well ask him if he likes tea or coffee.
Vote: Rhand (serious vote)
Currently leaning towards a Rhand+Whispy team making an awkward attempt at interacting.
Yeah, no.
There's tryhardy, there's really tryhardy, and then there's so tryhardy that you yourself seem to recognize that people are in danger of thinking it's a joke, and so you have to explain that no, you're not joking, because you recognize and pretty much admit yourself that would be the sensible default reaction - because your vote is ridiculous.
Vote ZeDorkSlippeur
1) Are you really making that high of a mountain out of me insisting the vote that ended RVS was a serious vote?
2) What exactly is ridiculous about that vote, pray tell?
I disagree. HR seemed like he was trying to start some pointless speculation, which is scummy because it dilutes the useful info/useless chatter ratio. Then he repented (so to speak) by implying he did ask the mod and dropping the public question entirely — which proved me wrong and, at the same time, made him more townie.
Two problems with this:
1. Trying to figure out THE FUNDAMENTAL MECHANIC OF THIS GAME is pointless?
2. If you were proven wrong in the next sentence you typed in the same post, why post the initial question in the first place?
1) Quick rhetorical question: Considering we have basically no info, how are we going to determine whether our speculations are right or wrong?
2) See #54
Gold: ZeDorkSlippeur
Silver: Grape
Tied for Bronze: Everyone else
Why Grape?
———
Vote: Highroller
For grasping at straws with his barely justified vote, and for his unexplained Grape read that doesn't fill me with confidence either (FTR it's not a matter of us disagreeing).
Meta-wise, since we are mentioning his "wolf range", back when he was glued to my throat like a vampire pit-bull in Snow White he constantly wrote these long-winded theory-laden posts explaining why I had to be scum. A far cry from calling my vote "ridiculous" with zero explanation.
For the record I do not care for his mechanical confusion. That aspect of the game was clearly stated in the sign-up thread — he either didn't read it and can only blame himself, or did read it and in that case WTF is he doing? Either way it's a null tell at most. (@Grape: If his reaction is so natural, then why is he the only one reacting this way?)
———
Grape reminds me of his Snow White D1 self, with how quick he is to clear players and how slow/reluctant he is to go on the attack.
Johnny begging Grape to interact with him reminds me of Prison Block where he did something similar, but mostly I think his thought processes are organic.
I'm soft-clearing them both.
I kind of like Whispy "squinting" (#67, #69) to make some tentative reads despite struggling to get scum pings (#66), it's a good mindset to have. I'm soft-clearing him as well, to a lesser extent.
@ZDS It's natural because image HR being a wolf and doing the same grumbling in wolf chat and him not being any more clued in. There is no way his posting looks like that with Wisp or GJ as a buddy. And very tiny chance it does with Rhand. It could happen with you because of timing but you two do not feel like you are bussing. His only viable partner from my POV is Pokechu but I think town is still more likely.
I am not wolf reading HR right now, but I don't see how you can say his posts are only coming from a town perspective, when wolves are easily going to have the same problem it appears.
I hate asking questions like this, but does HR have a wolf meta here yet? I only remember Secret Agent, and one other game I know he was town, but I can't recall it.
Also curious about what HR thinks about his silver going right after his gold. Bronze here feels awkward as well.
I don't disagree with that. But I also don't think ZDS is the wolf here.
honestly I might just scrap the read since it probably was too hasty
I personally think town!ZDS has an easier time switching around his reads
Prisoner BLock, ZDS had flex in his reads, at least I recall him u-turning on me. He is a long time player, he can move his reads pretty naturally (from my perspective).
Waiting to hear from HR, but not a huge fan of him either. But I think even more so than grape/ZDS, I don't think Grape/HR are w/w. Way too buddy buddy, especially with the vote synch up.
I go to Michigan in a few days, so I will be phone only until the 3rd. Trying not to swarm the thread, but yeah.
I can still post, but expect typos, and not being aBLE TO quote as well as I can currently. Might have to do full quotes, even though I prefer partials.
I am getting paranoid. ZDS is my only real town lean right now. I was liking Rhand, but he kind of vanished. I struggle to follow his mindset even when he is town, but not sure why he would lean Grape town from the page 1 interaction with ZDS.
Wisp, I feel like I get a bead on you early most games, and not feeling it this one.
Almost missed this:
GJ feels fine too. A bit worried that he is trying to pocket me. But I like bouncing thoughts off him and his answers don’t feel malicious.
Rhand, I know you have been in games where I have said this numerous times: I don't pocket as either alignment. I don't like to, I think it's way too predictable, and am never super comfortable with it as I can either pocket a wolf/my pocket can turn on me.
@GJ
He can probably move his town reads around easier than, his scum leans, as a wolf, ZDS, I mean
Also I decided I'm not going to let other people's thoughts interfere with my reads this game
GJ, why do I feel like you aren't all there? It feels like you are saying words, but Im not getting the feeling you care, maybe it's too early for this kind of read
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game",
I don't think Grape/HR are w/w. Way too buddy buddy, especially with the vote synch up.
Grape's read on me reflects whether he agrees with my latest vote — he was townreading me when I voted Rhand over the same post that pinged him, and he's scumreading me now that I'm voting his waifu Highroller.
I think if he were scum he would not be so transparently biased and lacking in self-awareness.
The more I read it the more I think that was a scum post. Too many parts that don't seem to fit together.
Isn’t it a bit early in the Day to put someone at -1?
Pokechu hasn’t even posted since the game became real.
I just realised this game is filled with all the people that I tend to scumread when they’re town minus KJ plus the new guy.
Maybe Highroller being an exception, I can’t seem to remember my previous experiences with him that well.
I don't think Grape/HR are w/w. Way too buddy buddy, especially with the vote synch up.
Grape's read on me reflects whether he agrees with my latest vote — he was townreading me when I voted Rhand over the same post that pinged him, and he's scumreading me now that I'm voting his waifu Highroller.
I think if he were scum he would not be so transparently biased and lacking in self-awareness.
I like this post, but I don't agree with that Grape thought. I don't particularly think Grape is worried about himself as either alignment, but I could be mistaken
@GJ you’re not the only one struggling to follow my mindset lol. I still haven’t figured out what causes that after all these years of playing.
I try to keep up with the thread while working, but posting is more or less limited to my mornings (if I wake up in time) and evenings. I haven’t vanished.
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game"
It wasn't me, I believe you are referring to Rhand's #75
Hm did you just give Wisp a reason to townread me rather than taking the undeserved credit that no one was going to look back for anyways?
That’s not a scum mindset.
I go to Michigan in a few days, so I will be phone only until the 3rd. Trying not to swarm the thread, but yeah.
I can still post, but expect typos, and not being aBLE TO quote as well as I can currently. Might have to do full quotes, even though I prefer partials.
I am getting paranoid. ZDS is my only real town lean right now. I was liking Rhand, but he kind of vanished. I struggle to follow his mindset even when he is town, but not sure why he would lean Grape town from the page 1 interaction with ZDS.
Wisp, I feel like I get a bead on you early most games, and not feeling it this one.
Almost missed this:
GJ feels fine too. A bit worried that he is trying to pocket me. But I like bouncing thoughts off him and his answers don’t feel malicious.
Rhand, I know you have been in games where I have said this numerous times: I don't pocket as either alignment. I don't like to, I think it's way too predictable, and am never super comfortable with it as I can either pocket a wolf/my pocket can turn on me.
I have given this some thought because I am sure that you do, but maybe it’s semantics.
Do you consider townreading a townie as mafia to be pocketing?
@GJ
He can probably move his town reads around easier than, his scum leans, as a wolf, ZDS, I mean
Also I decided I'm not going to let other people's thoughts interfere with my reads this game
GJ, why do I feel like you aren't all there? It feels like you are saying words, but Im not getting the feeling you care, maybe it's too early for this kind of read
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game",
I am dealing with house stuff, plus other things. Keep in mind, that we have 2 players who haven't done almost anything from a hunting perspective, which while it doesn't sound like a lot, is more than 25% of the playerbase. In addition, it's end of year, so really busy time.
Right now, where I am sitting at is
GJ
ZDS
Rhand
Wisp
Grape
Null: HR/Poke
The one issue or perhaps benefit with Grape is that while he is my lowest read, there are two players I can't see him as buddies with (HR or
HR is probably slightly worse than poke, but it's really because Poke hasn't done anything, and HR hasn't really added anything to his ZDS vote, and I want to see him react more now that everyone else has responded to him, apart from poke.
I feel like there are a lot of strong town voices. Even grape, I am not crazy about as a wolf right now. Rhand re-evaluating ZDS is a good look.
I go to Michigan in a few days, so I will be phone only until the 3rd. Trying not to swarm the thread, but yeah.
I can still post, but expect typos, and not being aBLE TO quote as well as I can currently. Might have to do full quotes, even though I prefer partials.
I am getting paranoid. ZDS is my only real town lean right now. I was liking Rhand, but he kind of vanished. I struggle to follow his mindset even when he is town, but not sure why he would lean Grape town from the page 1 interaction with ZDS.
Wisp, I feel like I get a bead on you early most games, and not feeling it this one.
Almost missed this:
GJ feels fine too. A bit worried that he is trying to pocket me. But I like bouncing thoughts off him and his answers don’t feel malicious.
Rhand, I know you have been in games where I have said this numerous times: I don't pocket as either alignment. I don't like to, I think it's way too predictable, and am never super comfortable with it as I can either pocket a wolf/my pocket can turn on me.
I have given this some thought because I am sure that you do, but maybe it’s semantics.
Do you consider townreading a townie as mafia to be pocketing?
Not even a little bit. Wolves have to post town reads, and can't just read all their wolf buddies as town, and all the town as wolves. Pocketing from what I see is basically brown nosing, and sucking up to everything to say.
This seems too ballsy for mafia!Grape
And this happened before ZDS made his move.
That “minor scum ping on Rhand” would be incentive for mafia!ZDS to launch an attack. I don’t think it works the other way around?
I think it makes more sense if Grape is misguided town that saw someone talk about his scum read and figured that that was “solid” just because of who the post was about.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
have you read the post just above the one you’re talking about?
OK, thanks for answering, I'll take your opinion into account.
1) Whispy's answer to you is purely theoretical ("let's say, I think GJ's entrance looks tonally off", "like I could say, that Pokechu trying to find an early argument for voting Grape looks bad, BUT then they just say "OMGUS VOTE, so I don't know"), so my point stands. That said I buy the confusion in #32, so maybe you did expect to somehow get something useful out of your question .
2) I think it's important to get my thought processes and scumdar pings in the open, and I'm curious if HR has anything to say about it. I admit my intent wasn't clear, sometimes I'm too hasty.
3) Based on personal bias you should die in a fire for (essentially) calling me a hypocrite and for saying my attack is bad. Also you remind me of CC's OMGUSing me in early Snow White, only you are more soft.
Hush, don't give it away!
I actually didn't pay attention to the reads at the end of #28 until the "townish too" in #31 made me check if I had missed something. Hence why I asked about his reads in #34 rather than in my first post.
(Also, I'm offended by the implied accusation that I'm wagonning Grape)
———
Unvote
I think there's a good chance Rhand meant well, so I'm cutting him some slack.
I don't get major pings either way from the other currently active posters (Johnny and Whispy).
I think you are putting way too much stock into the first page of posts that people make. Fair enough though on him pinging you before ZDS's point.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It was actually two things. One was suspecting you (for largely the same reason if not the same actual posts, for me it was the mechanical talk more than the LW softball which was fine.) but the more important one was the process on LW. I think he drew the exact wrong conclusion from it but I don't think that scum would speculate about his claim like that and decide to push him over it. It just felt like town trying to play the possibilities with LW openly talking about his role.
Also it may just be my perception that you have strong reads on me and not match reality at all.
No. Well not HR. Wisp I kind of did to Rhand there but basically the gist of it is a tone read combined with the claim. Wisp loves to claim and is rather fearless about it (see claiming something called angel of death here) but the lack of agenda here is what tipped it towards town for me. He didn't do anything with it. Just dropped it in the thread. Scum!LW probably does something with it.
@Game talk to me about Johnny. I feel like I should read into 55 but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading.
Dude, that was post 20. If he was talking mechanics on post 400, then I could at least see it as busy work, trying to look hunty.
The bolded, which is the more important one per you, I don't understand what you are saying.
Also I am here, you are reading. Talk to me. I am dying for interaction and trying not to spam the thread for once. So people like HR and you don't feel overwhelmed.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I get that it was post 20 but I thought there were a few interesting threads to pursue even at that stage that Rhand showed no interest in. Notably HR's musings about a decider and Wisp. Pokechu not realizing I voted myself also might have been worth a poke. And I do get that what's interesting is subjective, which is why all it garnered is a FoS not a vote.
As for the game itself: in a micro like this the first day has a heightened importance so while I might be projecting I'd expect a twitchy RVS. We have had a little of that (see Rhand and ZDS and you a bit) but you brushing things off as putting too much importance in the first x posts when there aren't really votes flying just feels off to me. But I also sort of want to town read as you're relaxed and didn't get too defensive when you realized I'd said Rhand pinged me before ZDS mentioned it. I'm very conflicted.
What's your take on Wisp? To try to explain my ZDS read again I liked his process of drawing a conclusion from Wisp's claim. I think there was something there to dig into and my initial reaction was his, but when I had a second thought I drew the opposite conclusion so I think that ZDS scum reading Wisp for that is a very natural and real thought process even if I disagree.
Was there really? It was mostly ***** posting and me *****ing about that time us, Wisp and Tubba were wolves. And Highroller complaining about not doing his flavor thing. Nothing really struck to me as conversation until ZDS came in and voted Rhand, and Rhand OMGUS'd ZDS.
Yeah, but it doesn't help when people aren't posting that much. Like, have Highroller or Poke actually made a post that wasn't a goof off post? It's a 7 player game, maybe both of them are wolves and everyone else talking is town (I don't actually believe that. But they are obviously rand alignment in my mind).
For the record, I usually ***** about the speed of the game being too slow. I find it amusing that I am almost taking the opposite approach. Shorter game or not.
Why? The doesn't make sense. I don't typically get defensive when I am a wolf. And town frustration doesn't build until I have more than 2 people pressuring me for what I think is bull*****. I wasn't very relaxed in our game when day 4 came around and shadow was still alive.
As far as my read on Wisp goes, it's relatively null. He hasn't really pinged me one way or the other.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And fair enough on the speed of the game.
Does your ZDS read change at all with the knowledge that I stated suspicion of Rhand before he did?
It's not that I didn't care about Highroller's despair and not getting the full value of whatever flavor claiming he does Actually, I don't care. I don't think it's relevant, it's not worth thinking about, but probably the most important, it's not something I think he says that takes him out of his town or wolf range. I didn't really see any reaction from Wisp or Rhand that would also strike me as more town or wolf in response *shrugs*.
It's why I don't typically enjoy RVS. I could probably strike 40+ posts from the front page (including most of my own) and pretend they don't exist, and I could still probably solve as well as I could normally, if that makes sense.
To me, what I didn't like about your intro is that I don't really get the early wisp town read to the point you disagreed with ZDS. Like, did Wisp get to a point that you felt the need to mention your disagreement?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think there is a part of HR's reaction that take him out of his likely wolf range but again I want to see more before talking about it or committing fully to the read.
As for the rest, you're not wrong. There is a lot of chaff.
As for mentioning the disagreement I had just called out Wisp as a town read and then said I town read ZDS and my internal reasoning was surrounding his Wisp read so it felt natural to mention.
I think I might wait for other people to post some before doing much else. I don't really care at all about changing your read on me at this stage and you've answered everything I was interested in.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What exactly is Highroller's wolf range?
it's strictly a meta read
There's tryhardy, there's really tryhardy, and then there's so tryhardy that you yourself seem to recognize that people are in danger of thinking it's a joke, and so you have to explain that no, you're not joking, because you recognize and pretty much admit yourself that would be the sensible default reaction - because your vote is ridiculous.
Vote ZeDorkSlippeur
Yeahhhh, I'm going to ask the same thing as well, there, Grape.
Two problems with this:
1. Trying to figure out THE FUNDAMENTAL MECHANIC OF THIS GAME is pointless?
2. If you were proven wrong in the next sentence you typed in the same post, why post the initial question in the first place?
Ranking vote choices:
Gold: ZeDorkSlippeur
Silver: Grape
Tied for Bronze: Everyone else
just to say I am doing something, if I squint, grape can be the worst, but like worst of what really?
Not this. Probably. Feel even better after his most recent post.
@HR You didn't answer my question about your role and what you think of it.
Like, I don't know what my role ability is, right? So who do I aim my night ability at? If I were inspector, I'd be going for mafia, but if I hit a town, that's fine because I'd still clear them. If I'm a vigilante, I'd be aiming for mafia and would definitely not risk hitting town. If I'm a doctor or some other protection role, I'd be aiming for town and would not want to hit mafia.
But I have no idea what I am. Therefore, I have no idea who to aim my night ability at.
This is just such a strange design choice.
When did you ask me such a question?
you have a hint? work with it
that's what I am going to do, and given my hint, I can take somewhat of a guess
what do you think of Highroller's thoughts on ZDS?
I was initially going to say something, but since all I would be doing is attacking the notion, I decided to opt out, since I don't see specifically what makes those specific questions anymore wolfy than townie, aka NAI
The bolded: What do you mean largely the same reasons? ZDS made no mention of the mechanical talk and only talked about the softball.
Highroller seems townie. I like where his head is at in regards to that ZDS post and his mechanical frustration sounds real.
@Highroller: I am not going to speculate openly about what your role does but I think I would try to target mafia with a role named decider.
GJ feels fine too. A bit worried that he is trying to pocket me. But I like bouncing thoughts off him and his answers don’t feel malicious.
Wisp, Snoopy still up in the air. Snoopy seemed ok early on but needs to post now that things got real. Wisp needs to draw some real conclusions, it’s almost as if he doesn’t dare to form a scum read on anyone. But that’s not something I’ve seen in Wisp from either alignment as far as I remember, so benefit of the doubt he just doesn’t have reads.
Grape and ZDS probably not mafia together. I would be baffled if they’re both town. Still think ZDS is the more likely mafia here.
inb4 he finds a reason in my latest post to jump back on my train.
Is re-evaluating strictly town meta for ZDS?
Spilling my HR read now. I think he's town because of the natural way he's reacting to the obsfucated mechanics. If he was scum this discussion would be happening in the scum chat as well and anyone but Pokechu (and maybe them too) would have attempted to provide some insight that would have spilled into the game. Not saying they would have convinced him, just saying you would see the wheels turning more than they are. Especially if it was GJ or Wisp.
@Rhand the softball q and the mechanical spec to me were the same thing. Just fluff to stay in the thread with presence. Different posts but the same underlying issue. That said your handling of HR here has me doubting my initial read.
1) Are you really making that high of a mountain out of me insisting the vote that ended RVS was a serious vote?
2) What exactly is ridiculous about that vote, pray tell?
1) Quick rhetorical question: Considering we have basically no info, how are we going to determine whether our speculations are right or wrong?
2) See #54
Why Grape?
———
Vote: Highroller
For grasping at straws with his barely justified vote, and for his unexplained Grape read that doesn't fill me with confidence either (FTR it's not a matter of us disagreeing).
Meta-wise, since we are mentioning his "wolf range", back when he was glued to my throat like a vampire pit-bull in Snow White he constantly wrote these long-winded theory-laden posts explaining why I had to be scum. A far cry from calling my vote "ridiculous" with zero explanation.
For the record I do not care for his mechanical confusion. That aspect of the game was clearly stated in the sign-up thread — he either didn't read it and can only blame himself, or did read it and in that case WTF is he doing? Either way it's a null tell at most. (@Grape: If his reaction is so natural, then why is he the only one reacting this way?)
———
Grape reminds me of his Snow White D1 self, with how quick he is to clear players and how slow/reluctant he is to go on the attack.
Johnny begging Grape to interact with him reminds me of Prison Block where he did something similar, but mostly I think his thought processes are organic.
I'm soft-clearing them both.
I kind of like Whispy "squinting" (#67, #69) to make some tentative reads despite struggling to get scum pings (#66), it's a good mindset to have. I'm soft-clearing him as well, to a lesser extent.
The more I read it the more I think that was a scum post. Too many parts that don't seem to fit together.
I'm at oust-1 by the way.
I hate asking questions like this, but does HR have a wolf meta here yet? I only remember Secret Agent, and one other game I know he was town, but I can't recall it.
Also curious about what HR thinks about his silver going right after his gold. Bronze here feels awkward as well.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I personally think town!ZDS has an easier time switching around his reads
It's probably more likely that his push on Rhand is a distance or that pikachu is his partner, just cause PoE
Prisoner BLock, ZDS had flex in his reads, at least I recall him u-turning on me. He is a long time player, he can move his reads pretty naturally (from my perspective).
Waiting to hear from HR, but not a huge fan of him either. But I think even more so than grape/ZDS, I don't think Grape/HR are w/w. Way too buddy buddy, especially with the vote synch up.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I would also really appreciate some real-time from him
I can still post, but expect typos, and not being aBLE TO quote as well as I can currently. Might have to do full quotes, even though I prefer partials.
I am getting paranoid. ZDS is my only real town lean right now. I was liking Rhand, but he kind of vanished. I struggle to follow his mindset even when he is town, but not sure why he would lean Grape town from the page 1 interaction with ZDS.
Wisp, I feel like I get a bead on you early most games, and not feeling it this one.
Almost missed this:
Rhand, I know you have been in games where I have said this numerous times: I don't pocket as either alignment. I don't like to, I think it's way too predictable, and am never super comfortable with it as I can either pocket a wolf/my pocket can turn on me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
He can probably move his town reads around easier than, his scum leans, as a wolf, ZDS, I mean
Also I decided I'm not going to let other people's thoughts interfere with my reads this game
GJ, why do I feel like you aren't all there? It feels like you are saying words, but Im not getting the feeling you care, maybe it's too early for this kind of read
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game",
I think if he were scum he would not be so transparently biased and lacking in self-awareness. Grape's read on me reflects whether he agrees with my latest vote — he was townreading me when I voted Rhand over the same post that pinged him, and he's scumreading me now that I'm voting his waifu Highroller.
Isn’t it a bit early in the Day to put someone at -1?
Pokechu hasn’t even posted since the game became real.
I just realised this game is filled with all the people that I tend to scumread when they’re town minus KJ plus the new guy.
Maybe Highroller being an exception, I can’t seem to remember my previous experiences with him that well.
I would like you to explain that ZDS read/vote in more depth
I try to keep up with the thread while working, but posting is more or less limited to my mornings (if I wake up in time) and evenings. I haven’t vanished.
Hm did you just give Wisp a reason to townread me rather than taking the undeserved credit that no one was going to look back for anyways?
That’s not a scum mindset.
Back to the drawing board I guess.
I have given this some thought because I am sure that you do, but maybe it’s semantics.
Do you consider townreading a townie as mafia to be pocketing?
I am dealing with house stuff, plus other things. Keep in mind, that we have 2 players who haven't done almost anything from a hunting perspective, which while it doesn't sound like a lot, is more than 25% of the playerbase. In addition, it's end of year, so really busy time.
Right now, where I am sitting at is
GJ
ZDS
Rhand
Wisp
Grape
Null: HR/Poke
The one issue or perhaps benefit with Grape is that while he is my lowest read, there are two players I can't see him as buddies with (HR or
HR is probably slightly worse than poke, but it's really because Poke hasn't done anything, and HR hasn't really added anything to his ZDS vote, and I want to see him react more now that everyone else has responded to him, apart from poke.
I feel like there are a lot of strong town voices. Even grape, I am not crazy about as a wolf right now. Rhand re-evaluating ZDS is a good look.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Not even a little bit. Wolves have to post town reads, and can't just read all their wolf buddies as town, and all the town as wolves. Pocketing from what I see is basically brown nosing, and sucking up to everything to say.
The GJ way path to no lynching: