[quote from="Lastwhisper »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/819846-shoushiling-mafia-day-1?comment=172"]
@Pokechu what community (or communities) do you usually play in?
Smashboards. I've also played twice on Mafia Universe. The only one in this game I've played with before is Wispy Woods.
What communities/community do you play in? I think you played in this year's Championships on MU, right? I did 2019. I won - barely! LOL But you might've played with someone named Kary? They're from my place! Smashboards!!! I love Kary :^) (but don't tell them that)
</blockquote>
I did play the championship yes, Kary was our last Nightkill in the qualifier.
I play mainly here and a bit on Mafia Colosseum and Civilisation Fanatics and a game here and there elsewhere.
I remember that Kary wasn’t a fan of having to explain herself.
Anyways, I don’t know the culture of your site apart from seeing Kary in action. I mainly wanted to know if brushing off a post with laughter is normal behavior there.
LOL no
It's just me. I laugh at everything. Everywhere. I don't care the context I'm gonna laugh. I never think people would be surprised at it. But people are. Maybe I'm weird
Poke and Whispy are scum. Whispy is intentionally staying out of the DorkRoller slap-fight and plans on using the false dichotomy to chain misbonks, while Poke stirs the pot.
For grasping at straws with his barely justified vote, and for his unexplained Grape read that doesn't fill me with confidence either (FTR it's not a matter of us disagreeing).
"Barely justified vote" only undermines Highroller's argument, doesn't combat it or counter it. Mentions the unexplained Grape read but again instead of trying to *solve* the slot he just tackles it on as another point *against* the slot and why to vote the slot.
This goes in-hand with his weak "soft-clears" (not trying to 'solve' Wisp/Rhand/Grape). I wouldn't put as much stock in this *alone* but with the other posts it shows a trend.
Once I enter the thread he unvotes Highroller to focus on me, but also does not put much depth into his posts.
For coincidentially focusing his entire catch-up on the three bonking candidates (Johnny, HR, myself), coincidentially making us his top 3 scum, and coincidentially making me (who has the most votes) his top scum read. Such chained coincidences and such unoriginal thoughts can't be natural.
Why can't they be natural? Doesn't that make sense.... going through the thread, OK a lot of X's posts are pinging me weird hmmm don't like this interaction between X and Z, ooo look another post from X I'm "eh" on. OK this is getting to be a trend... let me set X in my bottom three.
Instead of trying to deduce whether my pieces, my commentary makes sense from town, my questions are legitimate, he just labels my posts as "not natural." Doesn't even make a real argument against them, he just tries to label me as coincidentally doing A B C and now I must be scum.
For all the fence-sitting, particularly in 141, 142 and 148.
Again, he ignored my post #153 where I specifically explained why my posts *weren't* hedging. But again he just labels my post as a thing (not natural, fence-sitting) and tries to use it to say I deserve a vote.
All in all it's as if Poke had already decided what the readslist in 151 would look like and the entire point of the catch-up was to slide everyone into their predetermined slots.
There is no justification for why so much of his attention is focused on the bonking-candidates trio and no justification for putting Grape and Rhand higher than Whispy (or Whispy lower than them, same difference).
Again, not asking someone questions, instead just takes the opportunity to suspect them. I will say that since Grape and Rhand were surprised at my townreads, I should've furthered them more. I'm the only one who knows my thought processes after all. But he also does undermine and shade all of my posts when he says "there is no justification for why he focused on only the bonking-candidates." What justification do I need? They're the players I'm most suspicious of and want to hear more from... and at the time of my post it was like the third or fourth day of the phase and it lasts a week? Maybe I'm missing something but it's not as if those three had no chance of ever making themselves look good. It's not as if they were looking filthy anyways... ZDS makes it sound as though while I was MIA town already decided the lynch was between one of those three and I just hopped on and said "yeah sounds good nothing to add"
Since Pokechu thinks pretending to laugh is a valid way to answer concerns, let's laugh back at him.
Here are all the posts where he quotes Rhand or Grape:
snip
These are all about me and to a lesser extent Johnny, with the exception of 147 which is a PTAP.
Entirely disingenuous to say the posts are all about him (ZDS). You can clearly see that I was sharing thoughts with and prompted Rhand and Grape, explicitly saying that between GJ's and Rhand's arguments I agreed with Rhand's more (contributes to my townread of Rhand). It's not as if I only went to those players to ask questions and then I gave them a random read in my ordered list. Will take note of this for the future for sure though and will expand on reads. But the way ZDS is framing this is not accurate.
Good luck with that, and I am staying out of the slap fight because I don't necessarily think HR is a wolf, and am not going to bother trying to change his mind on you
At this point I am just trying to figure if you are in fact town or just mafia
maybe give me some cases on why someone is town, rather than always trying to find reasons why someone new is mafia
1) Why are you already prepared to lock your vote on Highroller after I die, if you are not sure he is scum?
2) Sure. Johnny is very thoughtful and despite having had several occasions to join wagons (on Rhand, on me, on HR), never actually did and even tried to calm things down. His relative lack of impact is easily explained by his IRL house matters.
I feel like with ZDS' posts there's a pattern of not going deep. His intent is not to solve a player but rather to lynch them.
You literally put me at the bottom of your reads list because I got positive impressions on several players early on, that statement applies to you a lot more than it does anyone else.
Re: Spoilers: I stand by 164 and 165. I do not believe for one second your top three scum organically happened to be the three suspected players despite two of these players openly slap-fighting and the third one only having a meme-tier vote against him.
Also it shouldn't take you so much time to explain why Whispy is lower in your reads list than Rhand and Grape, you had to order your list that way for a reason.
[quote from="Lastwhisper »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/819846-shoushiling-mafia-day-1?comment=172"]
@Pokechu what community (or communities) do you usually play in?
Smashboards. I've also played twice on Mafia Universe. The only one in this game I've played with before is Wispy Woods.
What communities/community do you play in? I think you played in this year's Championships on MU, right? I did 2019. I won - barely! LOL But you might've played with someone named Kary? They're from my place! Smashboards!!! I love Kary :^) (but don't tell them that)
</blockquote>
I did play the championship yes, Kary was our last Nightkill in the qualifier.
I play mainly here and a bit on Mafia Colosseum and Civilisation Fanatics and a game here and there elsewhere.
I remember that Kary wasn’t a fan of having to explain herself.
Anyways, I don’t know the culture of your site apart from seeing Kary in action. I mainly wanted to know if brushing off a post with laughter is normal behavior there.
LOL no
It's just me. I laugh at everything. Everywhere. I don't care the context I'm gonna laugh. I never think people would be surprised at it. But people are. Maybe I'm weird
</blockquote>
Nothing wrong with having fun, but the way you dismissed ZDS’s post with didn’t read but lol rubs me wrong.
But so does ZDS’s persistent HR read that then disappears in a cloud of “too many mafia for the game”.
And there’s no way you’re mafia together.
General pseudo-V/LA notice: My end-of-year vacations are ending next Monday so starting Day 2 I will be posting less frequently. Also because of time zones I will not be present for much of the EoD rush.
General pseudo-V/LA notice: My end-of-year vacations are ending next Monday so starting Day 2 I will be posting less frequently. Also because of time zones I will not be present for much of the EoD rush.
@ZDS
have you literally sussed the entire player base of this game, outside GJ?
lmao
How rude, I haven't suspected Grape either.
ok well now is your chance lmao
Give me a read on GJ, who I am still super serious on yeeting, because again I'm like 99.9% sure he is just a wolf based on tone and his general early mentality
Pokechu actually looks good as well honestly. And I do believe you are able to re-evaluate well enough that I don't actually hate you
So like gun to my head, it's GJ and most likely Highroller
Also it shouldn't take you so much time to explain why Whispy is lower in your reads list than Rhand and Grape, you had to order your list that way for a reason.
I make posts not only to answer others' questions but also to further my own understandings. Wisp sits right at null for me because a lot of his posts are simply reacting or open thinking. Like, two-line posts. Not necessarily scummy but there's some "noise" you have to look past to find his conclusions (many of which didn't ping me strongly). Actually, I don't remember any conclusions. I think the slot is unreadable tbh.
This is one post of his that piqued my interest in my catch up:
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game",
I was going to ask why he took knowledge of this, but did not make a further comment. Why is he deliberately playing unlike he would usually do? But I could form my own answer (for fun, want to try something new, maybe because it's a mini/7 person game). If Wisp could answer this that'd be cool since I wasn't sure what tell this could be. Hence why I put him as null.
Highroller talks in to many absolutes for my liking, literally feels like he is creating a narrative everytime he talks. He has the whole game figured out, so why are we even playing lol?
I will comment more once I reread to make sure I don't end up talking out my ass
I do agree with this post of his but I wasn't sure town or scum, which perspective it's likelier to come from. I haven't seen a scum!Wisp yet but this is a real observation Wisp makes here (one I feel as well, I stated HR made it feel like the answer is on a silver platter). I imagine a scum player could say this but it would be better said as a real push against HR but instead Wisp is focusing on GJ. Maybe scum!Wisp said it because his partner is pushing against HR?
ok i guess that is a fair point lol, didn't think about that wording
If Wisp didn't think about that wording, why did he choose it? Like, very wishy-washy. It's not the town Wisp I played with in our one game together but I know that scum!Wisp would be doing better. Or at least, I hope he would.
Good luck with that, and I am staying out of the slap fight because I don't necessarily think HR is a wolf, and am not going to bother trying to change his mind on you
At this point I am just trying to figure if you are in fact town or just mafia
maybe give me some cases on why someone is town, rather than always trying to find reasons why someone new is mafia
Another post that seems like LHF (low hanging fruit). "I don't think HR is scum but I'm not going to try to change his mind. Also make some cases for me" This reads pretty lazy. Like, Wisp isn't involving himself in anything.
because I do what I want, and sometimes I need someone else talking about something to motivate me to talk about it as well, as for the Rhand quote I pulled out, I don't particularly have a reason for picking it out, I was just curious since Rhand plays with a lot of wine based on his own mafia play
IF ZDS is town, I am locking my vote on Highroller for funsies day 2
another lazy post.
I know Wisp is a strong player but what he's given us so far is wimpy. But based on what I've seen from his town game I doubt that this is his scumgame. Want to see the slot be more involved but at the moment I'm more suspicious of ZDS/GJ/HR - though I wouldn't be against a Wisp lynch.
Also it shouldn't take you so much time to explain why Whispy is lower in your reads list than Rhand and Grape, you had to order your list that way for a reason.
I make posts not only to answer others' questions but also to further my own understandings. Wisp sits right at null for me because a lot of his posts are simply reacting or open thinking. Like, two-line posts. Not necessarily scummy but there's some "noise" you have to look past to find his conclusions (many of which didn't ping me strongly). Actually, I don't remember any conclusions. I think the slot is unreadable tbh.
This is one post of his that piqued my interest in my catch up:
Lastly, I think ZDS has given the best read of me so far, "He isn't playing like his wolf or town game",
I was going to ask why he took knowledge of this, but did not make a further comment. Why is he deliberately playing unlike he would usually do? But I could form my own answer (for fun, want to try something new, maybe because it's a mini/7 person game). If Wisp could answer this that'd be cool since I wasn't sure what tell this could be. Hence why I put him as null.
Highroller talks in to many absolutes for my liking, literally feels like he is creating a narrative everytime he talks. He has the whole game figured out, so why are we even playing lol?
I will comment more once I reread to make sure I don't end up talking out my ass
I do agree with this post of his but I wasn't sure town or scum, which perspective it's likelier to come from. I haven't seen a scum!Wisp yet but this is a real observation Wisp makes here (one I feel as well, I stated HR made it feel like the answer is on a silver platter). I imagine a scum player could say this but it would be better said as a real push against HR but instead Wisp is focusing on GJ. Maybe scum!Wisp said it because his partner is pushing against HR?
ok i guess that is a fair point lol, didn't think about that wording
If Wisp didn't think about that wording, why did he choose it? Like, very wishy-washy. It's not the town Wisp I played with in our one game together but I know that scum!Wisp would be doing better. Or at least, I hope he would.
Good luck with that, and I am staying out of the slap fight because I don't necessarily think HR is a wolf, and am not going to bother trying to change his mind on you
At this point I am just trying to figure if you are in fact town or just mafia
maybe give me some cases on why someone is town, rather than always trying to find reasons why someone new is mafia
Another post that seems like LHF (low hanging fruit). "I don't think HR is scum but I'm not going to try to change his mind. Also make some cases for me" This reads pretty lazy. Like, Wisp isn't involving himself in anything.
because I do what I want, and sometimes I need someone else talking about something to motivate me to talk about it as well, as for the Rhand quote I pulled out, I don't particularly have a reason for picking it out, I was just curious since Rhand plays with a lot of wine based on his own mafia play
IF ZDS is town, I am locking my vote on Highroller for funsies day 2
another lazy post.
I know Wisp is a strong player but what he's given us so far is wimpy. But based on what I've seen from his town game I doubt that this is his scumgame. Want to see the slot be more involved but at the moment I'm more suspicious of ZDS/GJ/HR - though I wouldn't be against a Wisp lynch.
You have 3/6 players you’re more suspicious of but you wouldn’t mind a Wisp lynch?
So the only ones you wouldn’t lynch are me and Grape? What has Grape even done to deserve that “honor”?
You have 3/6 players you’re more suspicious of but you wouldn’t mind a Wisp lynch?
So the only ones you wouldn’t lynch are me and Grape? What has Grape even done to deserve that “honor”?
vote Pokechu
as clearly seen half the dude's posts are emptier than a banker's heart. I'm not going to push for Wisp's lynch but I'm also not going to go to bat trying to defend him. He needs to step up to the plate
and I'm looking through your posts and Grape's right now
Lmao I'm not stepping up *****, and I'm not lazy, I've said my thoughts. Y'all too busy dancing around the people talking to notice a straggling wolf right in front of you
Look at #212 and tell me that's a town post. Locking in half the game day 1 as not yeeting. Linking me to you, and then saying he is iffy on me, like why the hell is grape even there, like what reason does does Grape have for being there. I can't honestly see how GJ as town gets to ZDS being that good off his first few posts, and he probably hasn't even read any of ZdS' other posts. It's not natural.
Also fight me, like I play how I believe I need to play based o the site and the game itself.
And why doesn't HR bother him,who is tunneling on his earliest town read. He just is not natural. And I don't care about anything OOG, this is not town!GJ, bet
Another thing, me and GJ have both seen both alignments from ZDS, both consist of more walls than real time, so that early post should have done nothing for him. Ohh look he made a wall, it's so townie, yet somehow highroller can't pull out. Reason to hate it. Ok boomers
Another thing, me and GJ have both seen both alignments from ZDS, both consist of more walls than real time, so that early post should have done nothing for him. Ohh look he made a wall, it's so townie, yet somehow highroller can't pull out. Reason to hate it. Ok boomers
Which of those thoughts about players are real ones?
It seems that the first GJ thought isn't how you perceived GJ since you're meta townreading him but then the next example about Pokechu does sound like a real thought.
I'm confused now.
Pot / Kettle much? Your question to Highroller is a softball question that cannot help determine Highroller's alignment. You might as well ask him if he likes tea or coffee. And then you answer it yourself.
There's nothing wrong with keeping conversation going in RVS and you know it.
I'm totally gonna be accused of OMGUS now. And of self-consciousness because I know I'm gonna be accused of OMGUS. And of self-consciousness because I know I'm gonna be accused of self-consciousness. And of.... AAAAARGH it's inception.
ZDS can be townish too. Disagree on Wisp but that's a solid process.
No it isn't?
What is "solid" in that post?
First quote, shows he's interested in (clearly) hearing out other players. Second quote claps back at ZDS, paints his perspective, calls out the hypocrisy. Easy to see what Rand thinks. Third quote, I feel like it comes more from town because they would be genuinely confused. I think Wisp commented on this (IIRC he didn't like how Rand only said 'no it isn't') but why would a town player ask the question and then answer it themselves? Sometimes you (or I at least) just want to ask the question and not provide commentary so I don't give someone an "out." Like I think Rand just wanted to hear Grape's part on why he found that solid.
Yeah that game was disgraceful by me. I've had a few of them lately but that was especially bad. Almost as bad as the team event we did a few years back.
I've had a few awesome scum wins but they are depressingly long ago. Time to change that.
It's fun having HR and Rhand in the game. I believe they are the two players on opposite poles when it comes to reading me. I don't think Rhand has ever not had a strong read on me by the end of D1. Doesn't mean he's been right, just always confident.
@HR there are a limited number of things to decide. I'm sure you could make a decent guess as to what they could be. Now angel of death in a bit more ambiguous.
Small town read on Wisp and HR. Minor scum ping on Rhand.
And this happened before ZDS made his move.
That “minor scum ping on Rhand” would be incentive for mafia!ZDS to launch an attack. I don’t think it works the other way around?
I think it makes more sense if Grape is misguided town that saw someone talk about his scum read and figured that that was “solid” just because of who the post was about.
Already stated this in my catchup but I think this was very acute of Rhand and provides his framing of the interaction between ZDS and Grape. I just agree with it. I know I'm town, I had this thought, this is what I find likely/likelier. So if Rhand also had it then it gives me faith he is town as well.
In mafia!HR worlds this means he’s mafia with exactly ZDS. Mafia don’t connect two townies for no reason because lynching one destroys the scum read on the other. That means if HR is mafia, one of ZDS and Grape is too.
They do like to link a buddy to a townie to create a chainlynch on town when the buddy flips.
HR is clearly convinced that what ZDS did should get him lynched. That is true in town! And mafia!HR worlds.
So if he is mafia, he is assuming that out of ZDS and Grape, ZDS will flip first.
To make the chainlynch work, that means Grape is the town in the pairing that he wants to lynch after the ZDS flip.
I can see HR going for a bus here.
Turning that around, ZDS is voting HR. In a 7 player game, voting each other on Day 1 is terrible unless they think that getting towncred on each other’s lynch is the best way to win. Which is... bad play and not what I would ever see ZDS agreeing to. So while I can see HR making this play, I do not see ZDS go for it. Ever.
Conclusion: HR is not mafia with ZDS and not without ZDS so he is town.
Thanks Wisp
Genuine analysis and thought process on Highroller's push against ZDS and Grape. Logical and organized. I understood why HR wasn't mafia with ZDS from this but I didn't "get' why HR can't be mafia without ZDS (so I got the first part of his conclusion but not the second) but posts like these let us know where Rhand's head is at. He's providing the thread with original and quality content - thus not worried about his slot compared to other players. Since the number of posts have doubled since then perhaps hearing his updated take on this would be neat.
@Rhand
Explain to me how ZDS pointing out my mistake makes you like him, what else is he suppose to do there? Unless you consider just responding with, "that wasn't me", to be the less townie response.
What I would do as mafia when getting undeserved credit is either not mention it at all and take the town points or spin it into an attack on the one giving the credit if plausible. The one exception being if the one giving the wrong credit is a buddy.
Just setting it straight seems to be the townie response because it doesn’t only show that he’s not interested in getting town credit, but is also figuring out me by giving me the credit (and pointing you there as well).
OK the way this is worded seems sinister but I can see his thought process. I say it seems sinister because scum chums are DESPERATE to disarm you, they will do ANYTHING. So how he said "what I would do as mafia," it makes the implication he's not mafia. You can do this throughout a game and get EZ points. So on one hand I'm like mmmmmm. But on the other, this is a good observation that clues us into his read, his view of ZDS. I would actually like to hear how he would spin it into an attack, how it could be spun, so I could understand this better. Got my eye out though. Still a good post esp. because it shows how he is willing to solve other players (he was suspecting ZDS, but gives him points here)
I like where his head is at, a lot of definitive stances he's made, my only concern is he's a deep wolf. But he still gets a townread because literally anyone can be a "deepwolf," there's a conspiracy for anything
A) Quote me admitting my vote was illogical. I dare you. Me saying I later concluded I had overreacted is NOT the same thing as calling it illogical, not even close.
Except, by admitting that something was an overreaction, you have admitted exactly that, as if a reaction were logical, sensible, and justified, it would not be an OVERreaction, QED.
This is one of the biggest problems with you. You're continually saying that what I'm saying has no basis, and yet you're simultaneously admitting to the things I'm accusing you of. You've been arguing for two pages that your statements had total basis before admitting now that they don't, and yet you're still also arguing that I'm wrong for saying that your vote was totally unjustified, when you've already admitted it was unjustified!
And if you're going to say, "Well making ridiculous overreaction votes is what I always do!" then why the hell didn't you admit that in the first place and acknowledge that your vote was unjustified when it was first called out, instead of OMGUSing me and arguing for two pages that it was justified?
B) What a coincidence, my issue with you is you made an obviously nonsensical, baseless attack.
Except you've already admitted exactly what I've accused you of!
But anyway, is the reason why you aren't going after Grape as hard as after me because he only stated Rhand pinged him and did not actually attack him?
Also because Grape didn't go after him for the same reason you did, and his behavior has been very different from yours.
Are you still stuck in your dream-world where serious-voting in RVS is bad?
There's nothing wrong with serious-voting during RVS. There is everything wrong with voting for baseless, unjustified reasons, which is what you did by your own admission!
Rhand's question was not a bad one. Hell, it was even a question seeking clarification about LastWhisper's mindset and reads, which is certainly more productive than the usual fluff that gets thrown around during RVS. Furthermore, even if he had posted a complete fluff post, such posts are par for the course during RVS and not at all alignment-indicative.
There is nothing about Rhand's post that was inappropriate, but you already know that, because you've already admitted that your vote wasn't justified, but here you are still defending it anyway, even though you've already admitted it wasn't justified, so... I guess you're going to next argue that overdefensive, nonsensical posts are also NAI for you?
D) Why do I have to explain everything to you like you are a child?
1. You think I made an unjustified, scummy attack on Rhand.
2. You are suspecting Grape for defending that attack.
3. If you thought I was onto something with my Rhand vote, you would not be voting me or suspecting Grape.
4. If you thought my attack on Rhand was a bus, you would be suspecting Rhand instead of Grape.
1+2+3+4 = Rhand should be your top town-read until you are proven wrong about either Grape or me.
I know Wisp is a strong player but what he's given us so far is wimpy. But based on what I've seen from his town game I doubt that this is his scumgame. Want to see the slot be more involved but at the moment I'm more suspicious of ZDS/GJ/HR - though I wouldn't be against a Wisp lynch.
Why wouldn't you be against a Wisp lynch when you don't think this is his scum game and you have three other people that you believe would be better lynches?
Then why aren’t you voting GJ? Or what is it that you like?
I think I'm voting Grape as a joke right now but I'm going to move the vote after I make the posts I want/when I feel like it. Probably to GJ or ZDS. Probably GJ because ZDS is putting out higher-quality content and we can work with that. But out of curiosity and in the name of science who's your avatar of?
What is lazy solving and what qualifies my posts as that?
you didn't even consider any implications of a PokeWisp team. Do you think that scum!Pokechu and scum!Wisp deliberately avoid interacting with each other? You comment that I'm stirring the pot, with what posts? (Stirring the pot is a vague term). Like, it's lazy solving because you're just trying to label something (Wisp and I not interacting) as scummy so it gets your vote. It's like saying "town wouldn't do X so I'm voting for [name]." Like yeah X might be a thing town shouldn't do but it doesn't automatically mean [name] earns your vote. It's lazy. Dig deeper.
last time I played with Pokechu he started with a roleplay
pretty much responded to every post with emoji's
made a full lean list rating players via emoji's
everyone yelled at him
proceeded to make a very detailed list of everyone at least in my opinion
and then proceeded to ghost the game
ended up flipping a wolf
last time I played with Pokechu he started with a roleplay
pretty much responded to every post with emoji's
made a full lean list rating players via emoji's
everyone yelled at him
proceeded to make a very detailed list of everyone at least in my opinion
and then proceeded to ghost the game
ended up flipping a wolf
I am curious to see what he brings this game
That wasn’t me, that was Laser :^(
I was the one who replaced in like D2 and in LyLo voted out Jack and saved the day!!! I feel betrayed
Also
you’re Wisp?????????
Do you think scum!Wisp and scum!Pokechu deliberately mistake each other in the public thread? Would we not have recognized each other in the scum chat? Not to say that a PokeWisp team is unfeasible but the way you're going about it now is "if the shoe fits wear it" which is not how games are won LOL
@highroller
Can u like stop posting about ZDS, in a way where you pretend you have the whole game figured out? If not I guess I know who I'm targeting based out what I assume my abilities does
Honestly I'm surprised I'm even treating GJ this way, because I've all but stopped playing like this outside, extreme situations, where it needs to be done
Why wouldn't you be against a Wisp lynch when you don't think this is his scum game and you have three other people that you believe would be better lynches?
Maybe I don't "doubt" it's his scumgame but I'd be disappointed because I know it should be better. "Too wolfy to be a wolf" is a weak reason to not vote someone. I'm going to fight to lynch whoever I think is the best choice at the end of the Day and right now I don't think that's Wisp.
Don't like poke or LW. The formers last past is exactly what a hedge distance post with s buddy would look like.
Grape still hasn't wowed me.
Never voting ZdS, Rhand or HR
Want to vote Grape or poke.
Wisp I have conflicting feelings on
Do you not like Wisp or do you have conflicting feelings? You say both in one post with no reasoning for anything whatsoever.
Hard for me to type out on phone, plus just in a bliss mindset, but i haven't liked his tone/ implication. Reminds me of Sir Chris snd how he reads me as wild vs when he is town.
@Wisp can I ask why you have a null read on Rhand? Is it rule of thumb or do you just not see many takeaways (motive etc) from his posts?
it's a player thing, probably wouldn't yeet him today, but like of he doesn't die going into day 2, I'd probably have to force myself to read that slot well
@Wisp can I ask why you have a null read on Rhand? Is it rule of thumb or do you just not see many takeaways (motive etc) from his posts?
it's a player thing, probably wouldn't yeet him today, but like of he doesn't die going into day 2, I'd probably have to force myself to read that slot well
as some would say, he is as scary as Mafia as he is handsome
211 and 222 make me doubt my Poke scum read, they show Poke having the ability to see the future and base his reads (seen in 151) on posts that hadn't been made yet. How could such an amazing power not come from town?
Just kidding, he is blatantly making-up his reads after the fact. Kill him with fire.
you didn't even consider any implications of a PokeWisp team. Do you think that scum!Pokechu and scum!Wisp deliberately avoid interacting with each other? You comment that I'm stirring the pot, with what posts? (Stirring the pot is a vague term). Like, it's lazy solving because you're just trying to label something (Wisp and I not interacting) as scummy so it gets your vote. It's like saying "town wouldn't do X so I'm voting for [name]." Like yeah X might be a thing town shouldn't do but it doesn't automatically mean [name] earns your vote. It's lazy. Dig deeper.
What about these interactions?
That's the textbook definition of a strawman, countering an argument that was never actually made.
What I actually did was 1. find suspicious how the catch-up had basically nothing to say to or about Whispy, and 2. call out Whispy for not interacting with you until after I posted 1.
None of your quotes, including the one you called lazy solving, have any relevance in that regard.
———
@Whispy: Bruh, I literally town-cased Johnny (same person as GJ) in 205. I'm adding a caveat though that if anyone is trying to pocket me by roughly mimicking my reads, it's him.
Also: It bothered you that I have "sussed" most players at some point, but now you are saying Johnny is scum for refusing to yeet too many players. Isn't that contradictory?
Which is scummy, too many scum reads or not enough?
(Or does it bother you that he's planning on staying out of the DorkRoller dichotomy ?)
@HR: I don't have time to waste on you, we'll resume arguing Day 2 if I make it there.
you really took a page out of GJ’s book your counter argument to posts 221 and 215 was so respectable and I like how you brought up specific quotes. Thanks
Also in other news you can no longer get suspicious of players for not defending their stances anymore because I did that and you called it a straw man argument. Again, LAZY LOL you are not considering any implications or feasibility of what I am saying. You want it to be scum so clearly it must be
Looking at my own ISO I have been extremely open about my reads, I have explained them in details every time and I have also been very open when someone or something made me change my mind.
Therefore I have to assume you are not acting in good faith when you say "[I'm] just trying to label something as scummy", "[I] want it to be scum so clearly it must be" or that I'm not "put[ting] thought into [my] reads and consider[ing] if they make sense".
Granted, the top part of my previous post was unusually sarcastic and lacking in details. Please forgive me Mr Time Lord, and please tell us how you were able to use posts 185, 193 and 199 to justify the reads you posted in 151.
The only way this is possible is if you looked into Whispy and Rhand's ISOs not with the intent to determine their alignments, but instead with the intent to find posts you could put on display to illustrate your reads after the fact.
Show us how your actions make sense from the perspective of a townie acting in good faith and legitimately trying to solve the game.
———
(Side note, why is there nobody around? Is everyone asleep?)
“ Granted, the top part of my previous post was unusually sarcastic and lacking in details. Please forgive me Mr Time Lord, and please tell us how you were able to use posts 185, 193 and 199 to justify the reads you posted in 151.”
I don’t understand how this is even a talking point. I flat out said that I make posts not only for other people to read but also to further my understanding. So YEAH of course I’m going to include new posts that may not have been made at the time, to explain my Rhand read NOW. Why would I limit myself to like the first two pages and completely ignore the whole three pages thatve been made. LOL like I really don’t understand this point
“The only way this is possible is if you looked into Whispy and Rhand's ISOs not with the intent to determine their alignments, but instead with the intent to find posts you could put on display to illustrate your reads after the fact.“
Wrong. Again, this is either a lazy town or obvious scum
He says “you’re using future posts to justify past reads waaaaah” as if I did not include 32, 33, 51, and 114, and instead ONLY focused on new posts. Which, is blatantly wrong and incorrect. This is a scummy thing to do.
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LOL no
It's just me. I laugh at everything. Everywhere. I don't care the context I'm gonna laugh. I never think people would be surprised at it. But people are. Maybe I'm weird
lazy solving
I feel like with ZDS' posts there's a pattern of not going deep. His intent is not to solve a player but rather to lynch them.
This goes in-hand with his weak "soft-clears" (not trying to 'solve' Wisp/Rhand/Grape). I wouldn't put as much stock in this *alone* but with the other posts it shows a trend.
Once I enter the thread he unvotes Highroller to focus on me, but also does not put much depth into his posts.
Instead of trying to deduce whether my pieces, my commentary makes sense from town, my questions are legitimate, he just labels my posts as "not natural." Doesn't even make a real argument against them, he just tries to label me as coincidentally doing A B C and now I must be scum.
Again, he ignored my post #153 where I specifically explained why my posts *weren't* hedging. But again he just labels my post as a thing (not natural, fence-sitting) and tries to use it to say I deserve a vote.
Working on this now
2) Sure. Johnny is very thoughtful and despite having had several occasions to join wagons (on Rhand, on me, on HR), never actually did and even tried to calm things down. His relative lack of impact is easily explained by his IRL house matters.
Mostly for implying my town-flip will somehow make you scum-read HR, and to a lesser degree for coasting more and more and the deadline gets closer.
What is lazy solving and what qualifies my posts as that?
You literally put me at the bottom of your reads list because I got positive impressions on several players early on, that statement applies to you a lot more than it does anyone else.
Re: Spoilers: I stand by 164 and 165. I do not believe for one second your top three scum organically happened to be the three suspected players despite two of these players openly slap-fighting and the third one only having a meme-tier vote against him.
Also it shouldn't take you so much time to explain why Whispy is lower in your reads list than Rhand and Grape, you had to order your list that way for a reason. 1) Why are you already prepared to lock your vote on Highroller after I die, if you are not sure he is scum?
have you literally sussed the entire player base of this game, outside GJ?
lmao
Nothing wrong with having fun, but the way you dismissed ZDS’s post with didn’t read but lol rubs me wrong.
But so does ZDS’s persistent HR read that then disappears in a cloud of “too many mafia for the game”.
And there’s no way you’re mafia together.
How rude, I haven't suspected Grape either.
Give me a read on GJ, who I am still super serious on yeeting, because again I'm like 99.9% sure he is just a wolf based on tone and his general early mentality
Pokechu actually looks good as well honestly. And I do believe you are able to re-evaluate well enough that I don't actually hate you
So like gun to my head, it's GJ and most likely Highroller
This is one post of his that piqued my interest in my catch up:
I was going to ask why he took knowledge of this, but did not make a further comment. Why is he deliberately playing unlike he would usually do? But I could form my own answer (for fun, want to try something new, maybe because it's a mini/7 person game). If Wisp could answer this that'd be cool since I wasn't sure what tell this could be. Hence why I put him as null.
I do agree with this post of his but I wasn't sure town or scum, which perspective it's likelier to come from. I haven't seen a scum!Wisp yet but this is a real observation Wisp makes here (one I feel as well, I stated HR made it feel like the answer is on a silver platter). I imagine a scum player could say this but it would be better said as a real push against HR but instead Wisp is focusing on GJ. Maybe scum!Wisp said it because his partner is pushing against HR?
Here's another that caught my eye:
If Wisp didn't think about that wording, why did he choose it? Like, very wishy-washy. It's not the town Wisp I played with in our one game together but I know that scum!Wisp would be doing better. Or at least, I hope he would.
Another post that seems like LHF (low hanging fruit). "I don't think HR is scum but I'm not going to try to change his mind. Also make some cases for me" This reads pretty lazy. Like, Wisp isn't involving himself in anything.
another lazy post.
I know Wisp is a strong player but what he's given us so far is wimpy. But based on what I've seen from his town game I doubt that this is his scumgame. Want to see the slot be more involved but at the moment I'm more suspicious of ZDS/GJ/HR - though I wouldn't be against a Wisp lynch.
Don't like poke or LW. The formers last past is exactly what a hedge distance post with s buddy would look like.
Grape still hasn't wowed me.
Never voting ZdS, Rhand or HR
Want to vote Grape or poke.
Wisp I have conflicting feelings on
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You have 3/6 players you’re more suspicious of but you wouldn’t mind a Wisp lynch?
So the only ones you wouldn’t lynch are me and Grape? What has Grape even done to deserve that “honor”?
vote Pokechu
as clearly seen half the dude's posts are emptier than a banker's heart. I'm not going to push for Wisp's lynch but I'm also not going to go to bat trying to defend him. He needs to step up to the plate
and I'm looking through your posts and Grape's right now
How is it hedging when it's explaining exactly why I have Wisp as null.... I can't say he's scum I can't say he's town. Because he's null for me. LOL
Look at #212 and tell me that's a town post. Locking in half the game day 1 as not yeeting. Linking me to you, and then saying he is iffy on me, like why the hell is grape even there, like what reason does does Grape have for being there. I can't honestly see how GJ as town gets to ZDS being that good off his first few posts, and he probably hasn't even read any of ZdS' other posts. It's not natural.
Also fight me, like I play how I believe I need to play based o the site and the game itself.
And why doesn't HR bother him,who is tunneling on his earliest town read. He just is not natural. And I don't care about anything OOG, this is not town!GJ, bet
But I think his hot take that is literally me and you is good in a weird way, even if he is wrong on me
Then why aren’t you voting GJ? Or what is it that you like?
I do not understand what you’re saying here
Do you not like Wisp or do you have conflicting feelings? You say both in one post with no reasoning for anything whatsoever.
Genuine analysis and thought process on Highroller's push against ZDS and Grape. Logical and organized. I understood why HR wasn't mafia with ZDS from this but I didn't "get' why HR can't be mafia without ZDS (so I got the first part of his conclusion but not the second) but posts like these let us know where Rhand's head is at. He's providing the thread with original and quality content - thus not worried about his slot compared to other players. Since the number of posts have doubled since then perhaps hearing his updated take on this would be neat.
I like where his head is at, a lot of definitive stances he's made, my only concern is he's a deep wolf. But he still gets a townread because literally anyone can be a "deepwolf," there's a conspiracy for anything
This is one of the biggest problems with you. You're continually saying that what I'm saying has no basis, and yet you're simultaneously admitting to the things I'm accusing you of. You've been arguing for two pages that your statements had total basis before admitting now that they don't, and yet you're still also arguing that I'm wrong for saying that your vote was totally unjustified, when you've already admitted it was unjustified!
And if you're going to say, "Well making ridiculous overreaction votes is what I always do!" then why the hell didn't you admit that in the first place and acknowledge that your vote was unjustified when it was first called out, instead of OMGUSing me and arguing for two pages that it was justified?
Except you've already admitted exactly what I've accused you of!
Also because Grape didn't go after him for the same reason you did, and his behavior has been very different from yours.
There's nothing wrong with serious-voting during RVS. There is everything wrong with voting for baseless, unjustified reasons, which is what you did by your own admission!
Rhand's question was not a bad one. Hell, it was even a question seeking clarification about LastWhisper's mindset and reads, which is certainly more productive than the usual fluff that gets thrown around during RVS. Furthermore, even if he had posted a complete fluff post, such posts are par for the course during RVS and not at all alignment-indicative.
There is nothing about Rhand's post that was inappropriate, but you already know that, because you've already admitted that your vote wasn't justified, but here you are still defending it anyway, even though you've already admitted it wasn't justified, so... I guess you're going to next argue that overdefensive, nonsensical posts are also NAI for you?
I consider Rhand null until proven otherwise.
Why wouldn't you be against a Wisp lynch when you don't think this is his scum game and you have three other people that you believe would be better lynches?
Anyway,
Gold: ZDS
Silver: Pokechu
Bronze: Grape
I think I'm voting Grape as a joke right now but I'm going to move the vote after I make the posts I want/when I feel like it. Probably to GJ or ZDS. Probably GJ because ZDS is putting out higher-quality content and we can work with that. But out of curiosity and in the name of science who's your avatar of?
and number 2. back to our scheduled ZDS smackdown
you didn't even consider any implications of a PokeWisp team. Do you think that scum!Pokechu and scum!Wisp deliberately avoid interacting with each other? You comment that I'm stirring the pot, with what posts? (Stirring the pot is a vague term). Like, it's lazy solving because you're just trying to label something (Wisp and I not interacting) as scummy so it gets your vote. It's like saying "town wouldn't do X so I'm voting for [name]." Like yeah X might be a thing town shouldn't do but it doesn't automatically mean [name] earns your vote. It's lazy. Dig deeper.
What about these interactions?
Do you think scum!Wisp and scum!Pokechu deliberately mistake each other in the public thread? Would we not have recognized each other in the scum chat? Not to say that a PokeWisp team is unfeasible but the way you're going about it now is "if the shoe fits wear it" which is not how games are won LOL
Can u like stop posting about ZDS, in a way where you pretend you have the whole game figured out? If not I guess I know who I'm targeting based out what I assume my abilities does
Honestly I'm surprised I'm even treating GJ this way, because I've all but stopped playing like this outside, extreme situations, where it needs to be done
Maybe I don't "doubt" it's his scumgame but I'd be disappointed because I know it should be better. "Too wolfy to be a wolf" is a weak reason to not vote someone. I'm going to fight to lynch whoever I think is the best choice at the end of the Day and right now I don't think that's Wisp.
Hard for me to type out on phone, plus just in a bliss mindset, but i haven't liked his tone/ implication. Reminds me of Sir Chris snd how he reads me as wild vs when he is town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Still at work for a few hours
Maybe I missed something, but all you have stated is that you have a soul read on me and then.....?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
on mobile, how do I bold?
Vote: Gentleman Johnny. [bold]Vote: Gentleman Johnny[/bold]
Let’s hope that worked. Not sure if I’ll keep it there or move to ZDS but I don’t want it on Grape
LOL Osie you’re just going to have to be a lil’ generous here OK?
Vote Poke
Just b for bold.
But yeah, this is probably just a wolf. Probably with Grape.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Hey smart ass. Im phone posting. And on holiday. And my fingers hurt. You'll get your wall tomorrow
The GJ way path to no lynching:
sorry if you took any offense I just HAD to go for it LOL
Just kidding, he is blatantly making-up his reads after the fact. Kill him with fire.
———
That's the textbook definition of a strawman, countering an argument that was never actually made.
What I actually did was 1. find suspicious how the catch-up had basically nothing to say to or about Whispy, and 2. call out Whispy for not interacting with you until after I posted 1.
None of your quotes, including the one you called lazy solving, have any relevance in that regard.
———
@Whispy: Bruh, I literally town-cased Johnny (same person as GJ) in 205. I'm adding a caveat though that if anyone is trying to pocket me by roughly mimicking my reads, it's him.
Also: It bothered you that I have "sussed" most players at some point, but now you are saying Johnny is scum for refusing to yeet too many players. Isn't that contradictory?
Which is scummy, too many scum reads or not enough?
(Or does it bother you that he's planning on staying out of the DorkRoller dichotomy ?)
@HR: I don't have time to waste on you, we'll resume arguing Day 2 if I make it there.
Pokechu (3) - ZeDorkSlipeur, Rhand, Gentleman Johnny
Gentleman Johnny (2) - Lastwhisper, Pokechu
ZeDorkSlipeur (1) - Highroller
Not Voting: Grapefruit21
Roughly 9 hours remain.
you really took a page out of GJ’s book your counter argument to posts 221 and 215 was so respectable and I like how you brought up specific quotes. Thanks
Also in other news you can no longer get suspicious of players for not defending their stances anymore because I did that and you called it a straw man argument. Again, LAZY LOL you are not considering any implications or feasibility of what I am saying. You want it to be scum so clearly it must be
how is it a straw man, to want a player to put thought into their reads and actually consider if they make sense. LOL
Therefore I have to assume you are not acting in good faith when you say "[I'm] just trying to label something as scummy", "[I] want it to be scum so clearly it must be" or that I'm not "put[ting] thought into [my] reads and consider[ing] if they make sense".
Granted, the top part of my previous post was unusually sarcastic and lacking in details. Please forgive me Mr Time Lord, and please tell us how you were able to use posts 185, 193 and 199 to justify the reads you posted in 151.
The only way this is possible is if you looked into Whispy and Rhand's ISOs not with the intent to determine their alignments, but instead with the intent to find posts you could put on display to illustrate your reads after the fact.
Show us how your actions make sense from the perspective of a townie acting in good faith and legitimately trying to solve the game.
———
(Side note, why is there nobody around? Is everyone asleep?)
I don’t understand how this is even a talking point. I flat out said that I make posts not only for other people to read but also to further my understanding. So YEAH of course I’m going to include new posts that may not have been made at the time, to explain my Rhand read NOW. Why would I limit myself to like the first two pages and completely ignore the whole three pages thatve been made. LOL like I really don’t understand this point
Wrong. Again, this is either a lazy town or obvious scum