Also @all right off the bat, I'm advocating to reach majority as soon as it feels like a reasonably good bet, which will 100% be before a 2-week mark.
I understand the idea that we should make use of all the time available to make sure we're hitting scum.
On the other hand I cannot imagine a more boring hell than a 2-*******-week drag-along culminating in reaching a vote we knew we would reach several days ago.
My sweet spot is 5 days, btw. 7 for D1, and even that's like...ehhh.
”I think we should cut Day One in half for no reason!”
… No. No, we should not.
You can **** off, yes we should.
Kind of like the manic energy in the rest of your post, and we have some common ground to speak of, so neat.
You said you wanted to yeet Wisp second before the claim - what were your reasons? Your posts makes it look like "he's 3rder, kill it" as the only reason.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Sloth: while sifting through her ISO, I was noticing her directly shading some folks, and I was noticing a pattern in them: Most were dead town. Tammy got a lot of it, Cuth got a bit, GJ got a bit. Az got a bit. Iso/Anak too. I got I think one instance.
I can’t remember when or why I brought it up, the thread was so quiet that I had to double check that I wasn’t the one who had the date wrong. I believe someone pounced on my half-serious suggestion that we all lurk until the new year, and they mentioned that deadline was approaching. And then I didn’t think about it again until sometime after xmas.
That was me, and I pounced on it because I did not know if you were serious or joking, or if perhaps you were fishing for an extension which I also think would have been a bad idea.
I just don't think that scum!bessie uses a suggestion that we lurk until the new year to further a scumlean on her buddy. This feels like she wants him dead. Like actually dead.
bessie: can you give a couple post numbers where Vaimes is doing that?
Also is the reason you're suspicious of it because you're scum reading cuth or is there something in the way that Vaimes is doing it?
Here’s some D4 posts that I find suspicious, looking at the progression. Vaimes starts out with a vote on Cuth with a caveat that it’s just to provoke him to post.
if Cuth is a wolf, then Boom has to be a wolf with him, he is the only other vanillaish role, that could afford to hold the night KP? correct?
@Vaimes
unless someone is just straight-up lying about their role
ah **** I keep forgetting about that
This vote is more an invitation to defend himself instead of having me do it for him, and to explain his Night actions.
god is Anak mafia? Because like what the ****, this PoE makes no sense to me.
Clearing Tammy and KJ based on behavior. If anyone other than KJ claimed a double vote that had never actually been used, I'd probably steamroll them. Like his claim is actually making my skin crawl, but goddamn it if he isn't one of my strongest townreads.
Clearing Sloth because Tammy is alive, hasn't been blocked, and hasn't been announcing her targets to Sloth.
I guessssss maybe remove Cuth/Boom? Cuth is wine incarnate but I can't bring myself to keep squeezing him for anything, any hint of gamesolving. Boom's had ok posts toDay.
I don't like this, because I can't clear both Bur and Highroller unless there's another neutral out there, or the scumteam is small to compensate for town having WEAK ABILITIES.
I wish I could completely wipe away my memories of this game and start over fresh.
I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart. I think Highroller is fine, just saw how much more cooperative he was in Ghostbusters and got excited that maybe he wasn't town this time.
I’ve posted pings I’ve had from Vaimes since I’ve joined the game on D2, and he was on my short list. Skimming my posts, the early pings were because of what I thought was a forced defense of Tammy. And there were some other pings, you can iso my posts.
This was really recent, she hasn't backed off of Vaimes since D2.
I think a case can be made here for her and Vaimes not being on the same team, especially considering she didn't do anything like that to ANYONE ELSE WHO ISN'T TOWN. She softballed Highroller (which will be hilarious in retrospect when HR flips since its SO DAMN OBVIOUS that they were partners), you (Sloth), Tubba, and me, and she didn't really do much with Bur or Boom. But she specifically sought out Vaimes to die. So, unless the plan was specifically for Vaimes to go Deep Wolf, I don't think Bessie is conscious enough to interact with and pretend she thinks Vaimes might be town as scum but not to do that with literally anyone else on her team.
Thanks for the response.
My takeaway is that you concluded that scum!Bessie only pressed/sussed Town players?
Like, there's no dismantling argument that says she absolutely would not do that, but it does seem...unlikely. Scums generally place 1-2 of their mates as suspects for the wine.
KJ claimed a variant of GJ's role, but obviously he didn't start with one vitality. Same role, different vit sounds weird.
...Hm.
Wait.
By this logic, if KJ lost vit N2 but was alive D3, he obviously has, at a minimum, 2 vit, so he's not in danger of the vit thief. Ok, good point.
I'm not too sure why the information is relevant though? Unless he was about to response "I started with 1 vit" (which he won't now), technically any answer is plausible.
KJ were you the one that thought it was odd I had such a "weak" power?
(Also I still managed to kill someone with it what have you done with your power just sayin')
It's relevant because if literally any other player had a roleclaim as sussy as KJ's, I'd have tried a lot harder to kill them. Do you feel the same way?
Which means I feel like I need to go over his posts again to make sure I'm not giving him a meta pass.
Also, I'm pretty sure Tubba is caught scum and is lurking on purpose for [raisins]. Do you know what the raisins are?
It's relevant because if literally any other player had a roleclaim as sussy as KJ's, I'd have tried a lot harder to kill them. Do you feel the same way?
kind of, but no.
This game is in the verge of role madness - there are two town vit-takers (of different scale) and so many quasi-protection roles - so I mentioned I'm not putting too much stock on the roleclaims.
KJ does fit that standard of half-of-a-whole with GJ...but now that I think about it, it is weird he'd have more than 1 vit if that's the case. That more than the claim itself is the only thing that made me do a double-take.
Also, I'm pretty sure Tubba is caught scum and is lurking on purpose for [raisins]. Do you know what the raisins are?
Maybe. His wit last Night was just basically to say he felt disheartened and wanted to rely on "better player's reads."
Not sure who he meant, but I certainly hope it's not me.
Also if his plan was to do that, why is he not here doing it?
Like I said, I feel like toNight comes down to Tuba/Another-player no matter what.
I'm not like, suspicious because it's two double voters. I agree they complement each other, in theory. What I hate is that there is no proof of an easy-to-prove role. He never voted twice on Day 1, Day 3 everyone had a second vote, and now he can't use it toDay because it's LyLo. And we already know that he and GJ had a different starting vitality.
And town!Tubba shouldn't be feeling some typa way because he was wrong on Cuth, he should be grateful town didn't lose immediately and get to work trying to find the rest of the mafia team now that we finally have a red flip.
I'm not like, suspicious because it's two double voters. I agree they complement each other, in theory. What I hate is that there is no proof of an easy-to-prove role. He never voted twice on Day 1, Day 3 everyone had a second vote, and now he can't use it toDay because it's LyLo. And we already know that he and GJ had a different starting vitality.
Let me hammer today and I'll prove it. I can vote offwagon first then vote onwagon second to show.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Highroller for last scum, for being perfectly okay with killing Anak and letting Wisp win after spending weeks trying to kill Wisp.
Honestly, it really never occurred to me that I could just ask about it. In fairness to me, I'm not used to mods answering questions about how role abilities work. Maybe that's normal on this site but that hasn't been the case on other places I've played.
I'm not sure how being perfectly willing to kill Anak makes me mafia. I'd already posted my reasons for suspecting Anak prior to going into that day, and that was before the fumble of information regarding Anak's interactions with Azrael. Further, Anak was witted, which got rid of the player I'd been trying to get rid of all game.
I wonder, if there’s a mafia RB why does his shot get through? @HR did you activate last night?
I did not.
All of the people mafia reading me are getting a because if I'm mafia, why am I getting dinged for 1 Vit two different nights? If you're going to claim this is a mafia lie and there was no second shooter, why aren't you also advocating taking out Killjoy, who must be lying as well as he also claimed being attacked night 2, and has just been more suspicious on top of it?
All of the people mafia reading me are getting a because if I'm mafia, why am I getting dinged for 1 Vit two different nights? If you're going to claim this is a mafia lie and there was no second shooter, why aren't you also advocating taking out Killjoy, who must be lying as well as he also claimed being attacked night 2, and has just been more suspicious on top of it?
Can you explain the bolded, because I don't recall you scumreading me at all.
Can we also get reads just on everyone alive right now?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Can you explain the bolded, because I don't recall you scumreading me at all.
Actually, I had you loosely in my top 5. But more specifically, I was up front about my taking damage when it happened, versus your delay in revealing that you took damage night 2.
Also, did you ever claim the role information you said you were holding back, given that we are (and were then) in LyLo?
Can we also get reads just on everyone alive right now?
I don't feel comfortable reading anybody given how ******* wrong I've been for most of the game. Hence my insistence on rereading.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And town!Tubba shouldn't be feeling some typa way because he was wrong on Cuth, he should be grateful town didn't lose immediately and get to work trying to find the rest of the mafia team now that we finally have a red flip.
To reiterate, this was an N4 wit, before the reveal toDay.
I'm not like, suspicious because it's two double voters. I agree they complement each other, in theory. What I hate is that there is no proof of an easy-to-prove role. He never voted twice on Day 1, Day 3 everyone had a second vote, and now he can't use it toDay because it's LyLo. And we already know that he and GJ had a different starting vitality.
Let me hammer today and I'll prove it. I can vote offwagon first then vote onwagon second to show.
I can't speak for Vaimes, but the point of it to me isn't that you're lying about your ability - I honestly don't see why scum or town would lie about that at that point in the game.
It's just sort of the paranoid though that you could be scum double-voter to counter town double-voter, which might account with the difference in vit.
It is weird that GJ only got to double-vote and you apparently get that and something else.
Highroller for last scum, for being perfectly okay with killing Anak and letting Wisp win after spending weeks trying to kill Wisp.
Honestly, it really never occurred to me that I could just ask about it. In fairness to me, I'm not used to mods answering questions about how role abilities work. Maybe that's normal on this site but that hasn't been the case on other places I've played.
By that logic, how did you end up asking him in this instance? No one suggested it in-thread from what I recall.
Also I will go to my grave insisting that Anak was a justified yeet based on the information we got and it makes no sense he flipped town.
I'm not like, suspicious because it's two double voters. I agree they complement each other, in theory. What I hate is that there is no proof of an easy-to-prove role. He never voted twice on Day 1, Day 3 everyone had a second vote, and now he can't use it toDay because it's LyLo. And we already know that he and GJ had a different starting vitality.
@KJ
Is there a Vit cost to using your extra vote? Did you explain why you didn’t use it previously?
@All
It seems like a design flaw that KJ wouldn’t have an opportunity to use his odd night vote. Was the waking dragon thing always going to happen start of D3? (@KJ did you ask Grape if you could have three votes on D3?) Nobody claimed doing anything to activate it, none of the revealed roles would explain it.
It's hardly a design flaw, just unlucky. Day 3 is the only exception. He'd be able to use it toDay had we actually managed to vote out scum earlier.
Do you think the dragon awakening was triggered? Why give a power that’s tied to a specific day knowing that it will be nullified by a planned happening? Unless KJ would have had three votes, but then were back to having no verifications.
Hey hey. I'm back and caught up. Grape pinged me yesterday. Ironically, joining this forum has kept magic on my mind and I've finally broken down and started playing arena. So, yeah, that's been sucking to my evenings. You have no one to blame but yourselves.
And full disclosure I had three votes day 3, but I didn't have a third person I really wanted to vote, and it didn't occur to me that is need to prove/it would be so difficult to prove d5.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
BoomFrog, if you could go over some specific bessie posts that made you townlean her, that would be great.
No. I'm not planning on rereading anything. But I can give you a summery from memory. I like the catch-up when she started obviously, especially going for Tammy. She is usually a more timid player as scum and goes after easy to push targets. Her not being shy about pushing Azreal was also townie, normally she would stick to mud slingy tactics, pointing out things that could be scummy but not directly saying she thought he was scum.
I look forward to talking to her post game about if she was intentionally trying to throw me off since we've discussed my meta of her in the past.
I'm not believing that the mysterious vitality pinger is town as we mass claimed and saw no such thing.
So, there's 4 different world:
-Sloth is town, there's mafia vitality pinger.
-Sloth is town, there's no mafia vitality pinger
-Sloth is mafia, there's (other) mafia vitality pinger
-Sloth if mafia, there's no (other) mafia vitality pinger
I'm pretty sure we live in either world #1 or #4. #2 is makes no sense, as how did Cuth die then? And #3 seems unlikely from game balance purposes.
I need to sleep, but I want at least @Vaimes to weight in here. I hope to hear your thoughts once I wake up.
The key night is N2. We can confirm that GJ was killed by sloth, so either KJ is lying or Sloth is confirmed town or mafia have two vit pingers. And if KJ is scum I'm willing to just lose here, he's earned this. Unless you are about to tell me KJ is a notorious tryhard scum player I think he's just town here. He's putting in a ton of effort to solve the game.
Tammy could have protected Cuth, meaning he doesn't die?
Tubba is right. If Cuth was RBed then he'd have survived a ping anyway. Keeping Bessie and Cuth alive would have been better for them, Cuth was the second choice wagon yesterDay. The RB must have been one shot.
Alright so town KJ and Sloth. I'm also pretty sure Bur is town, I don't think Bur brings up the "exactly one mafia skilled me" thing AND has his mate skill him. I can see one of those as a fake play but doing both cancel eachother out and could have gotten us looking at Bessie.
So PoE Tubba, HR, VAIMES.
If I'm wrong about something then it's probably Sloth. There might just be some weird mechanic going on that explains the extra ping N2. Of three in there PoE most likely wrong is Vaimes, he's been both strangely active while also not pushing his yeet choices very hard. Maybe he's just sitting back and letting town tear itself apart though.
So I'd prefer to vote in HR or Tubba and leave Sloth/Vaimes to decide later.
However, I'm going to strictly sheep KJ here. Town needs to 100% vote as a block. No faffing around.
By that logic, how did you end up asking him in this instance? No one suggested it in-thread from what I recall.
It was after there was an argument about whether or not Wisp telling the truth about his win condition and then fulfilling said win condition would result in the town losing due to the town win con being impossible to fulfill. It never really occurred to me before then to ask Grape about it, because I assumed he wouldn't answer. I decided to ask him because there was nothing to lose, and it looked like Wisp winning was imminent. I didn't actually expect him to respond with an answer to the question I asked him, and was genuinely surprised that he did.
...What is the possibility of a team that includes KJ/HR? Am I high?
Again, I don't understand that question, because I don't understand how you're arguing that I can be mafia and KJ can't be. If I'm mafia, then either the second shooter is town, or he doesn't exist at all and I made him up. If I made him up, how is KJ also claiming he's been hit?
Alright so town KJ and Sloth. I'm also pretty sure Bur is town, I don't think Bur brings up the "exactly one mafia skilled me" thing AND has his mate skill him. I can see one of those as a fake play but doing both cancel eachother out and could have gotten us looking at Bessie.
So PoE Tubba, HR, VAIMES.
If I'm wrong about something then it's probably Sloth. There might just be some weird mechanic going on that explains the extra ping N2. Of three in there PoE most likely wrong is Vaimes, he's been both strangely active while also not pushing his yeet choices very hard. Maybe he's just sitting back and letting town tear itself apart though.
So I'd prefer to vote in HR or Tubba and leave Sloth/Vaimes to decide later.
However, I'm going to strictly sheep KJ here. Town needs to 100% vote as a block. No faffing around.
Again, if you're going to argue KJ is town, explain why I'm also getting pinged by the second shooter, because if the second shooter were town, he'd have claimed already, and therefore he must be mafia.
And if he is mafia, why is he shooting me if I'm also mafia?
With my impeccable memory and roguish charms, of course. I'm very confident on Tubba and HR.
But really, at the end of the day this is your guys game and I'm just a warm seat. I expect KJ to declare a full solve. And we follow it until we win or lose. I think we've still got about a 50% chance of winning this.
I'm here to help, but my days of being a try hard are over.
I mean you are active but not proactive. You stated opinions but don't push to get what you want. We've missyeeted every day which makes me think scum have been the drivers. Everything points to Sloth except mechanics, but I think I really should throw out the assumption that I have all the pieces to this puzzle.
By that logic, how did you end up asking him in this instance? No one suggested it in-thread from what I recall.
It was after there was an argument about whether or not Wisp telling the truth about his win condition and then fulfilling said win condition would result in the town losing due to the town win con being impossible to fulfill. It never really occurred to me before then to ask Grape about it, because I assumed he wouldn't answer. I decided to ask him because there was nothing to lose, and it looked like Wisp winning was imminent. I didn't actually expect him to respond with an answer to the question I asked him, and was genuinely surprised that he did.
...What is the possibility of a team that includes KJ/HR? Am I high?
Again, I don't understand that question, because I don't understand how you're arguing that I can be mafia and KJ can't be. If I'm mafia, then either the second shooter is town, or he doesn't exist at all and I made him up. If I made him up, how is KJ also claiming he's been hit?
Alright so town KJ and Sloth. I'm also pretty sure Bur is town, I don't think Bur brings up the "exactly one mafia skilled me" thing AND has his mate skill him. I can see one of those as a fake play but doing both cancel eachother out and could have gotten us looking at Bessie.
So PoE Tubba, HR, VAIMES.
If I'm wrong about something then it's probably Sloth. There might just be some weird mechanic going on that explains the extra ping N2. Of three in there PoE most likely wrong is Vaimes, he's been both strangely active while also not pushing his yeet choices very hard. Maybe he's just sitting back and letting town tear itself apart though.
So I'd prefer to vote in HR or Tubba and leave Sloth/Vaimes to decide later.
However, I'm going to strictly sheep KJ here. Town needs to 100% vote as a block. No faffing around.
Again, if you're going to argue KJ is town, explain why I'm also getting pinged by the second shooter, because if the second shooter were town, he'd have claimed already, and therefore he must be mafia.
And if he is mafia, why is he shooting me if I'm also mafia?
I think there is a second shooter. Either he had only a single shot and shot KJ and you are lying mafia lying. Or you are town and he's shot every day.
Wait, no. Cuth got shot N4. So if KJ is town and you are mafia the mafia shooter is even night only. Why would the mafia shoot you N3? You declared your role super transparently, If you are town the mafia knew your vit was high. Why waste a shot on you?
Tubba: Like I said, I had three votes on D3. I did ask Grape if that affected my votes, and basically I had one vote that had to be two votes and one that could just be one, but I never had three sus's that I wanted to vote, and probably the most relevant was it was too early to out my role. I don't out my role unless it's really late in the game usually unless there's a benefit to it. What good would showing I have an extra vote at that point do? Nothing at all in my perspective. Like I said, I wasn't expecting to not just be able to plop down two votes today anyway. I didn't think it'd be lylo either yesterday or today, I figured ONE of our lynches was a wolf.
Sloth: I mean, paranoia is fine I guess. Who's your scumteam and why again?
HR:I'm not gonna fall into the trap I fell into in Seasons called "Find the Missing Scum Ability" because that backfired like crazy last time. Arguing that you can't be the second vit thief because you claimed a different role is pointless because you haven't proved you're not yet. Nor have I. Nor has Bur for that matter. On top of that neighborhood ability Bur has, he could ALSO have a vit steal. This is a Specialty. Roles can be as complex or simple as anything (which is why I'm not really pushing Sloth not having more abilities as alignment indicative. It's a boring role and I hope he's lying, but he could theoretically have it.) Your argument is beginning from the point where you think we should think you have that role, but we can't know that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Vaimes, wtf?
My takeaway is that you concluded that scum!Bessie only pressed/sussed Town players?
Like, there's no dismantling argument that says she absolutely would not do that, but it does seem...unlikely. Scums generally place 1-2 of their mates as suspects for the wine.
Wait.
By this logic, if KJ lost vit N2 but was alive D3, he obviously has, at a minimum, 2 vit, so he's not in danger of the vit thief. Ok, good point.
I'm not too sure why the information is relevant though? Unless he was about to response "I started with 1 vit" (which he won't now), technically any answer is plausible.
KJ were you the one that thought it was odd I had such a "weak" power?
(Also I still managed to kill someone with it what have you done with your power just sayin')
Which means I feel like I need to go over his posts again to make sure I'm not giving him a meta pass.
Also, I'm pretty sure Tubba is caught scum and is lurking on purpose for [raisins]. Do you know what the raisins are?
kind of, but no.
This game is in the verge of role madness - there are two town vit-takers (of different scale) and so many quasi-protection roles - so I mentioned I'm not putting too much stock on the roleclaims.
KJ does fit that standard of half-of-a-whole with GJ...but now that I think about it, it is weird he'd have more than 1 vit if that's the case. That more than the claim itself is the only thing that made me do a double-take.
Maybe. His wit last Night was just basically to say he felt disheartened and wanted to rely on "better player's reads."
Not sure who he meant, but I certainly hope it's not me.
Also if his plan was to do that, why is he not here doing it?
Like I said, I feel like toNight comes down to Tuba/Another-player no matter what.
Our abilities take away vit.
I'm not like, suspicious because it's two double voters. I agree they complement each other, in theory. What I hate is that there is no proof of an easy-to-prove role. He never voted twice on Day 1, Day 3 everyone had a second vote, and now he can't use it toDay because it's LyLo. And we already know that he and GJ had a different starting vitality.
@Sloth: Yes, that was me that thought you were weak. Pay one to lose one is bad.
But what if you were a pay one to take one AND GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE. That would be a balanced ability.
@Vaimes: I won't claim Vit total nor my secret ability because it still has utility. Let me hammer today and I'll prove it. I can vote offwagon first then vote onwagon second to show.
I wonder, if there’s a mafia RB why does his shot get through? @HR did you activate last night?
I'm not sure how being perfectly willing to kill Anak makes me mafia. I'd already posted my reasons for suspecting Anak prior to going into that day, and that was before the fumble of information regarding Anak's interactions with Azrael. Further, Anak was witted, which got rid of the player I'd been trying to get rid of all game.
Working on it, man. This thread is long.
I did not.
All of the people mafia reading me are getting a because if I'm mafia, why am I getting dinged for 1 Vit two different nights? If you're going to claim this is a mafia lie and there was no second shooter, why aren't you also advocating taking out Killjoy, who must be lying as well as he also claimed being attacked night 2, and has just been more suspicious on top of it?
Can we also get reads just on everyone alive right now?
Also, did you ever claim the role information you said you were holding back, given that we are (and were then) in LyLo?
I don't feel comfortable reading anybody given how ******* wrong I've been for most of the game. Hence my insistence on rereading.
But why? You just shoot Tammy who can’t protect herself, and block Cuth?
I can't speak for Vaimes, but the point of it to me isn't that you're lying about your ability - I honestly don't see why scum or town would lie about that at that point in the game.
It's just sort of the paranoid though that you could be scum double-voter to counter town double-voter, which might account with the difference in vit.
It is weird that GJ only got to double-vote and you apparently get that and something else.
Also I will go to my grave insisting that Anak was a justified yeet based on the information we got and it makes no sense he flipped town.
@KJ
Is there a Vit cost to using your extra vote? Did you explain why you didn’t use it previously?
@All
It seems like a design flaw that KJ wouldn’t have an opportunity to use his odd night vote. Was the waking dragon thing always going to happen start of D3? (@KJ did you ask Grape if you could have three votes on D3?) Nobody claimed doing anything to activate it, none of the revealed roles would explain it.
Do you think the dragon awakening was triggered? Why give a power that’s tied to a specific day knowing that it will be nullified by a planned happening? Unless KJ would have had three votes, but then were back to having no verifications.
Please, let me see you work through your reads on the living players.
And full disclosure I had three votes day 3, but I didn't have a third person I really wanted to vote, and it didn't occur to me that is need to prove/it would be so difficult to prove d5.
I look forward to talking to her post game about if she was intentionally trying to throw me off since we've discussed my meta of her in the past.
So PoE Tubba, HR, VAIMES.
If I'm wrong about something then it's probably Sloth. There might just be some weird mechanic going on that explains the extra ping N2. Of three in there PoE most likely wrong is Vaimes, he's been both strangely active while also not pushing his yeet choices very hard. Maybe he's just sitting back and letting town tear itself apart though.
So I'd prefer to vote in HR or Tubba and leave Sloth/Vaimes to decide later.
However, I'm going to strictly sheep KJ here. Town needs to 100% vote as a block. No faffing around.
Again, I don't understand that question, because I don't understand how you're arguing that I can be mafia and KJ can't be. If I'm mafia, then either the second shooter is town, or he doesn't exist at all and I made him up. If I made him up, how is KJ also claiming he's been hit?
Again, if you're going to argue KJ is town, explain why I'm also getting pinged by the second shooter, because if the second shooter were town, he'd have claimed already, and therefore he must be mafia.
And if he is mafia, why is he shooting me if I'm also mafia?
But really, at the end of the day this is your guys game and I'm just a warm seat. I expect KJ to declare a full solve. And we follow it until we win or lose. I think we've still got about a 50% chance of winning this.
I'm here to help, but my days of being a try hard are over.
I mean you are active but not proactive. You stated opinions but don't push to get what you want. We've missyeeted every day which makes me think scum have been the drivers. Everything points to Sloth except mechanics, but I think I really should throw out the assumption that I have all the pieces to this puzzle.
Wait, no. Cuth got shot N4. So if KJ is town and you are mafia the mafia shooter is even night only. Why would the mafia shoot you N3? You declared your role super transparently, If you are town the mafia knew your vit was high. Why waste a shot on you?
Tubba: Like I said, I had three votes on D3. I did ask Grape if that affected my votes, and basically I had one vote that had to be two votes and one that could just be one, but I never had three sus's that I wanted to vote, and probably the most relevant was it was too early to out my role. I don't out my role unless it's really late in the game usually unless there's a benefit to it. What good would showing I have an extra vote at that point do? Nothing at all in my perspective. Like I said, I wasn't expecting to not just be able to plop down two votes today anyway. I didn't think it'd be lylo either yesterday or today, I figured ONE of our lynches was a wolf.
Sloth: I mean, paranoia is fine I guess. Who's your scumteam and why again?
HR:I'm not gonna fall into the trap I fell into in Seasons called "Find the Missing Scum Ability" because that backfired like crazy last time. Arguing that you can't be the second vit thief because you claimed a different role is pointless because you haven't proved you're not yet. Nor have I. Nor has Bur for that matter. On top of that neighborhood ability Bur has, he could ALSO have a vit steal. This is a Specialty. Roles can be as complex or simple as anything (which is why I'm not really pushing Sloth not having more abilities as alignment indicative. It's a boring role and I hope he's lying, but he could theoretically have it.) Your argument is beginning from the point where you think we should think you have that role, but we can't know that.
It's a bad town thing to do, but it's not really any kinda scum thing to do.
At least reread Bessie's ISO and see if you agree with my thing that she's unlikely scum with Vaimes. Or at least read my 4248 where I make the case.