@Sloth: Does your ability specify getting hit with a nightkill of some sort, or does it specify losing vitality like Az's does?
Neither? Both?
It doesn't use the term "nightkill".
Just "at Night, you can spend 1vit to protect player xyz, if an attempt is made to harm them, you will lose an additional 1vit."
(Paraphrasing)
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
...wait what? You think you caught him at a private chat (which would either be skill, and I don't see why they would, or mafiachat) and you're not pressing on it?
how exactly do you read this, as being caught?
and I don't even understand what Bessie is saying here?
Bessie actually addressed this but:
Bessie: Hey, Az has information that wasn't on the thread that he could have only gotten from Boom. He must have gotten it from a private chat!
Me: ...wait you came to this reasonable conclusion, why aren't you pressing on it instead of being coy?
Bessie: I did, look at this post.
Me: Oh I see. Az?
Az: here's my answer. Sloth doesn't remember it and won't go back to look for it, but it was reasonable so sloth dropped it. Plus I flipped town so what's it matter?
Me: Fair.
Because people already thought we were scum together, so what was it gonna accomplish? It wasn't going to turn anything around for Az because nothing on that wagon was logical. Like obviously if I thought my claim would have saved Az at any point I would have done so.
Like you already knew we were Witted all game, does me giving him vitality instantly make us both town to everyone? Nobody listened to As anyway, they weren't gonna buy us townfirming each other
This right here is bs.
"Would confirmation of my super townie ability accomplish something guys?"
What do you mean "wolf siding in reads"? You seem to be implying he knows who the wolves are? If so, back that up a bit?
the people he's pushing and town-reading by and large trend towards a wolf victory if my reads aren't entirely off base in a majority of worlds
pure town-siding is only pushing wolves, pure wolf-siding is only pushing villagers
etc
his reads and such are rather inaccurate and (and this is important) i don't really think his justifications (sparsely given, to boot) for pushing the worst of these opinions don't feel very organic
and sloth can put passion and pizzazz into posts all day long, but the floaty complex non-linear process is what's particularly town-indicative from him, and i've not seen that at all since like d1
and instead he's just been picking on low-hanging targets and pushing for many bad yeets
some have flipped v
some are me
some are wisp
etc
What you might be reading here is simply that I'm too busy IRL to give the game my full attention, something that is not likely going to change any time soon.
You can ask anyone, and you yourself should know this, but "floaty complex non-linear processes" are something I can easily do as town or scum. Me not doing it is NAI.
Although, what do you expect from me exactly? I haven't caught scum, therefore I must be scum? 'cause that's honestly what this argument sounds like.
I'm trying, and I'm no more happier with the game state than anyone else. So, you know. Take that.
Would love to hear more about an actual case for me since you say I don't have any justifications for my actions.
OoG IRL time: Most of you may not know this but my state has moved into week 5 of the COVID vaccine distributions as of Monday, which essentially means all my clients and staff now qualify and are prioritized to get vaccinated (yay).
Unfortunately this means that 90% of my time is literally being eaten up with coordination, arrangement and execution of such events for hundreds of people because that apparently falls under me. I'm going insane.
Essentially, this game is...very much falling in priority to me, sorry. I'm still around but this was literally the only time I've had so far to check in and that's not going to change.
Wanted to make sure you knew - you as well, @Grape
@Sloth: Does your ability specify getting hit with a nightkill of some sort, or does it specify losing vitality like Az's does?
Neither? Both?
It doesn't use the term "nightkill".
Just "at Night, you can spend 1vit to protect player xyz, if an attempt is made to harm them, you will lose an additional 1vit."
(Paraphrasing)
It sounds like you tank visit loss for your target +1. You're a bodyguard.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Because people already thought we were scum together, so what was it gonna accomplish? It wasn't going to turn anything around for Az because nothing on that wagon was logical. Like obviously if I thought my claim would have saved Az at any point I would have done so.
Like you already knew we were Witted all game, does me giving him vitality instantly make us both town to everyone? Nobody listened to As anyway, they weren't gonna buy us townfirming each other
This right here is bs.
"Would confirmation of my super townie ability accomplish something guys?"
...Really?
yes that's my problem here, assuming is terrible rather than just posting the info. Else this would be probably an easy town read.
@Sloth: Does your ability specify getting hit with a nightkill of some sort, or does it specify losing vitality like Az's does?
Neither? Both?
It doesn't use the term "nightkill".
Just "at Night, you can spend 1vit to protect player xyz, if an attempt is made to harm them, you will lose an additional 1vit."
(Paraphrasing)
It sounds like you tank visit loss for your target +1. You're a bodyguard.
The wording of it makes me think more of a modified doc that just costs more to protect.
Bodyguards die when they protect, I just get what amounts to a minor inconvenience for reasons already: I really don't expect to die as a result of my ability.
But yes, I brought this up yesterDay, there are far too many protection roles running around. Technically Silver sort of was too, and Anak's claim is a protection of sorts.
Because people already thought we were scum together, so what was it gonna accomplish? It wasn't going to turn anything around for Az because nothing on that wagon was logical. Like obviously if I thought my claim would have saved Az at any point I would have done so.
Like you already knew we were Witted all game, does me giving him vitality instantly make us both town to everyone? Nobody listened to As anyway, they weren't gonna buy us townfirming each other
This right here is bs.
"Would confirmation of my super townie ability accomplish something guys?"
...Really?
yes that's my problem here, assuming is terrible rather than just posting the info. Else this would be probably an easy town read.
My biggest problem was outlined in 3352, and it's actually on Azrael.
You really think he wouldn't say anything about Anak's ability in light of that? Why?
Because people already thought we were scum together, so what was it gonna accomplish? It wasn't going to turn anything around for Az because nothing on that wagon was logical. Like obviously if I thought my claim would have saved Az at any point I would have done so.
Like you already knew we were Witted all game, does me giving him vitality instantly make us both town to everyone? Nobody listened to As anyway, they weren't gonna buy us townfirming each other
This right here is bs.
"Would confirmation of my super townie ability accomplish something guys?"
...Really?
yes that's my problem here, assuming is terrible rather than just posting the info. Else this would be probably an easy town read.
My biggest problem was outlined in 3352, and it's actually on Azrael.
You really think he wouldn't say anything about Anak's ability in light of that? Why?
I'm back.
Ok, stepping away helped. I'm no longer annoyed at everything and I'm ready to try again.
I apologize if yesterday I was biting people's heads off.
I skimmed what I missed and I'm gonna answer to a few things that popped up to me.
In the meantime, I'm Etta, Town Consort.
My ability is Queen's Protection. At Night, I can choose a player and spend 1 vit to protect them. If they get hit, they survive, and I lose an additional 1 vit. As a result, I have what I think is a fair amount of vit, though obviously not as much as before.
Thus far, none of my targets have been hit...yay.
@tammy will confirm when she's available, she already knows the details of my ability, as well as my targets.
Something else I should bring up: One of the players taking vit at Night is town. I will not be explaining further at this time.
This is not what you claimed to me. I just double checked the skill, and you implied that you were a vit thief and said that you use one vitality to take one vitality. You said you didn't target HR night one, but that you were responsible for GJ night two. (And, you said yes that was me which I took to mean you took vitality from Boomfang. When I asked you why GJ instead of one of the top wagons, you talked about your suspicion on Johnny and that you didn't mean to kill him because you didn't expect him to die but you wanted to see how he reacted to losing vitality. In fact, in number 9, you literally asked me if I had an opinion on who you should shoot to which I replied that my understanding of the game was too *****ty to have an opinion on this. You said you have one more shot.
I don't know why you're claiming something completely different than what you claimed to me AND I don't know why you're claiming protection knowing that I know who the doctor is. Is there a reason you're not mentioning the targets you took?
Not only do I have a huge problem with you claiming something completely different than you claimed to me, but I'm hard counter claiming this role.
My name is Molly, and I'm the town Chandler. I'm trying to keep my family's shop alive. My ability is Mother's Pride and each night I can spend a certain amount of vitality to protect someone. They lose no vitality if they are attacked.
I claimed to Bur after wisp suggested I should claim because he's right I've been terrible this game. I do always pay attention to the night kill because I use the nightkill to gauge my understanding of the game, but I don't usually focus on it as much as I do this game. KJ - I asked you who you thought the nightkill would be because I wanted help with who I should target last night; KJ gave me a list. Also KJ when I asked you if Boom's role was compatible with a doctor, I meant with another player being a doctor not if he was basically the doctor. I also asked Bur yesterday, but they just said they hoped I wasn't the nightkill (which got me a little paranoid because I thought it meant that I was actually dying, which is why I started today saying that I thought Bur was town due to me being alive. Although if they thought Cantrip was vig, that would be more important than me, but I still think that Bur is likely town.) Oh and my reaction to the boomfang is me trying to work out how his role fit with mine, which I considered it might. I'd be the early game protection until my vitality ran out and by that time maybe he has enough vitality to pick up end game protection. This was also why I was trying to make sense of protective claims yesterday, because I am one. I did not leave any crumbs, but I've got doctor tells all over me.
When I got my role, I figured I'd see if I got a town read on Iso and if I thought Iso was town, I'd protect him until my vitality ran out. But then I got really concerned about the way he tunneled on crop circles day one and how it looked like he didn't read them after they're big wall of reads that I didn't think looked scummy. Not that it made him scum to be wrong or that he had to town read him, just that it didn't look like he was reading him. My town read just took a hit from it. Anyway I spent the night trying to figure out a town read that I trusted and found none, settled between Iso and Vaimes for protection thinking that if they were town they'd be more likely to die. Literally thought about protecting Rhand but decided he was more likely to be scum and wouldn't be the nightkill even if he were town. And I was wrong.
Doesn't matter though because I ****ed up the time zones. I asked Grapefruit for when deadline was and he converted it for me, but I don't live in EST anymore and forgot to convert to my actual time zone, so I missed deadline by a half an hour.
Night two I protected Sloth because I suck. Silver was my strongest town read at the time and should have been my no brainer protect especially with an investigative role. But I did not consider that silver would be a high priority kill, and I should have. I did consider Johnny because if I were scum that's who I'd kill. Johnny was putting in the most effort to solve and move the game forward out of anyone here, except wisp, and if I were scum that'd be my target. I only didn't protect him because he was just an even day double voter, so he was basically a vanilla townie day three, and I thought scum would go for a role that would affect them more. And I thought that the way Sloth was so convinced at the end of day meant that he had something on Azrael and that he was an investigative of some sort, so I protected there. (Oh, I double checked with grapefruit that my night two protection was one night only and did not affect Cuth's attack there. I knew it didn't, but I figured I'd double check so that I could verify I wasn't the cause of that.)
Last night I protected Vaimes. I actually considered Cantrip, but much like night one I thought well Cantrip really isn't posting much so why would they kill him? I looked over the list that KJ gave me and ultimately went for Vaimes. I thought if town he'd be a likely kill for the same reason that I thought Johnny would be a likely kill - not that he's doing as much solving as Johnny was but he's a strong presence when he's here.
So yes, I'm a sucky ass doctor and I'm doing terribly. I keep considering the actual nightkill and then discounting it which just says my understanding of the game state is actual ass.
I'm back.
Ok, stepping away helped. I'm no longer annoyed at everything and I'm ready to try again.
I apologize if yesterday I was biting people's heads off.
I skimmed what I missed and I'm gonna answer to a few things that popped up to me.
In the meantime, I'm Etta, Town Consort.
My ability is Queen's Protection. At Night, I can choose a player and spend 1 vit to protect them. If they get hit, they survive, and I lose an additional 1 vit. As a result, I have what I think is a fair amount of vit, though obviously not as much as before.
Thus far, none of my targets have been hit...yay.
@tammy will confirm when she's available, she already knows the details of my ability, as well as my targets.
Something else I should bring up: One of the players taking vit at Night is town. I will not be explaining further at this time.
This is not what you claimed to me. I just double checked the skill, and you implied that you were a vit thief and said that you use one vitality to take one vitality. You said you didn't target HR night one, but that you were responsible for GJ night two. (And, you said yes that was me which I took to mean you took vitality from Boomfang. When I asked you why GJ instead of one of the top wagons, you talked about your suspicion on Johnny and that you didn't mean to kill him because you didn't expect him to die but you wanted to see how he reacted to losing vitality. In fact, in number 9, you literally asked me if I had an opinion on who you should shoot to which I replied that my understanding of the game was too *****ty to have an opinion on this. You said you have one more shot.
I don't know why you're claiming something completely different than what you claimed to me AND I don't know why you're claiming protection knowing that I know who the doctor is. Is there a reason you're not mentioning the targets you took?
Not only do I have a huge problem with you claiming something completely different than you claimed to me, but I'm hard counter claiming this role.
My name is Molly, and I'm the town Chandler. I'm trying to keep my family's shop alive. My ability is Mother's Pride and each night I can spend a certain amount of vitality to protect someone. They lose no vitality if they are attacked.
I claimed to Bur after wisp suggested I should claim because he's right I've been terrible this game. I do always pay attention to the night kill because I use the nightkill to gauge my understanding of the game, but I don't usually focus on it as much as I do this game. KJ - I asked you who you thought the nightkill would be because I wanted help with who I should target last night; KJ gave me a list. Also KJ when I asked you if Boom's role was compatible with a doctor, I meant with another player being a doctor not if he was basically the doctor. I also asked Bur yesterday, but they just said they hoped I wasn't the nightkill (which got me a little paranoid because I thought it meant that I was actually dying, which is why I started today saying that I thought Bur was town due to me being alive. Although if they thought Cantrip was vig, that would be more important than me, but I still think that Bur is likely town.) Oh and my reaction to the boomfang is me trying to work out how his role fit with mine, which I considered it might. I'd be the early game protection until my vitality ran out and by that time maybe he has enough vitality to pick up end game protection. This was also why I was trying to make sense of protective claims yesterday, because I am one. I did not leave any crumbs, but I've got doctor tells all over me.
When I got my role, I figured I'd see if I got a town read on Iso and if I thought Iso was town, I'd protect him until my vitality ran out. But then I got really concerned about the way he tunneled on crop circles day one and how it looked like he didn't read them after they're big wall of reads that I didn't think looked scummy. Not that it made him scum to be wrong or that he had to town read him, just that it didn't look like he was reading him. My town read just took a hit from it. Anyway I spent the night trying to figure out a town read that I trusted and found none, settled between Iso and Vaimes for protection thinking that if they were town they'd be more likely to die. Literally thought about protecting Rhand but decided he was more likely to be scum and wouldn't be the nightkill even if he were town. And I was wrong.
Doesn't matter though because I ****ed up the time zones. I asked Grapefruit for when deadline was and he converted it for me, but I don't live in EST anymore and forgot to convert to my actual time zone, so I missed deadline by a half an hour.
Night two I protected Sloth because I suck. Silver was my strongest town read at the time and should have been my no brainer protect especially with an investigative role. But I did not consider that silver would be a high priority kill, and I should have. I did consider Johnny because if I were scum that's who I'd kill. Johnny was putting in the most effort to solve and move the game forward out of anyone here, except wisp, and if I were scum that'd be my target. I only didn't protect him because he was just an even day double voter, so he was basically a vanilla townie day three, and I thought scum would go for a role that would affect them more. And I thought that the way Sloth was so convinced at the end of day meant that he had something on Azrael and that he was an investigative of some sort, so I protected there. (Oh, I double checked with grapefruit that my night two protection was one night only and did not affect Cuth's attack there. I knew it didn't, but I figured I'd double check so that I could verify I wasn't the cause of that.)
Last night I protected Vaimes. I actually considered Cantrip, but much like night one I thought well Cantrip really isn't posting much so why would they kill him? I looked over the list that KJ gave me and ultimately went for Vaimes. I thought if town he'd be a likely kill for the same reason that I thought Johnny would be a likely kill - not that he's doing as much solving as Johnny was but he's a strong presence when he's here.
So yes, I'm a sucky ass doctor and I'm doing terribly. I keep considering the actual nightkill and then discounting it which just says my understanding of the game state is actual ass.
My vote is in spirit on Sloth.
Tammy. For god's sake. I was obviously trying to lure the claim away from you.
Tammy. For god's sake. I was obviously trying to lure the KILL* away from you.
Tammy, why the hell would I claim something wildly different that what I told you since I was during our skill talk, when you're literally around to counter me?
What, did you think I could convince people to side with me over you if you were to CC me? Seriously?
You were obviously the doc, it was down to you and bessie and there's no way bessie skill-claims you of all people. Plus your first post today, and the other comments.
You already knew my real role and its limitations so I thought by making it obvious and go "HEY ALL, I'M DOC, ISN'T THAT RIGHT TAMMY, THAT I'M DOC SURE WOULD BE A SHAME IF SCUM ******* KILLED ME THE DOC TONIGHT WOULDN'T IT" you'd pick up on the fact that "oh wait, I see what he's doing."
Not go "oh he's obviously the dumbest ******* scum alive."
You even had my role to claim if you needed it, not that anyone was pressing you to.
****.
I'm King Shrewd, Town Tyrant. I'm a pragmatic ruler, father of Chivalry, Verity, and Regal and unafraid of murder politics. I'm perfectly willing to doom myself so long as I bring my family's enemies down with me.
This translates to my ability Eye For Eye, I can spend 1 vit on me to take 1 vit away from others.
N1 I targeted no one.
N2 I killed GJ (ok, in fairness, I had no ******* clue he'd die) - this I claimed to Tammy, along with everything else, and you can see her one-sided conversation with me on her posts yesterDay which should have been another ******* clue, tammy.
N3 I targeted Boom for reasons stated. Kinda forgot he had that extra vit so I almost jumped on him when I saw he was alive. Wisp calling on cuth reminded me.
And that's it, now you know. Was it ******* worth it?
But what was I supposed to claim then? Your role makes no sense with my play, and the shots you took don't make sense either.
I mean if you're town and were trying to lure the role away, thank you.
It's not something that crosses my mind on a good day. I just don't really play around with claims like that. It's probably in part why players like Azrael are so hard for me to read until I come to understand the ways and whys for their playing coo chi-coo with roles and reads.
But what was I supposed to claim then? Your role makes no sense with my play, and the shots you took don't make sense either.
It honestly didn't occur to me that you'd have a problem claiming my role, since you knew my targets and everything else.
Perhaps I didn't think that one through too much in my excitement of what I saw as a perfect gambit, but I didn't see it as not making sense for you based on actions. From what I remember, I still don't?
...anyway, I again apologize for exploding on you. Anger's gone now.
But what was I supposed to claim then? Your role makes no sense with my play, and the shots you took don't make sense either.
It honestly didn't occur to me that you'd have a problem claiming my role, since you knew my targets and everything else.
Perhaps I didn't think that one through too much in my excitement of what I saw as a perfect gambit, but I didn't see it as not making sense for you based on actions. From what I remember, I still don't?
...anyway, I again apologize for exploding on you. Anger's gone now.
I started leaning town on Johnny by the end of day two; that shot would not make sense night two from me. Night one maybe.
It's cool. I'm Tammy, ruiner of gambits. Don't think it would have worked, I'm not much of a gambiter, but I guess I could have gone back to sleep instead of post.
But what was I supposed to claim then? Your role makes no sense with my play, and the shots you took don't make sense either.
It honestly didn't occur to me that you'd have a problem claiming my role, since you knew my targets and everything else.
Perhaps I didn't think that one through too much in my excitement of what I saw as a perfect gambit, but I didn't see it as not making sense for you based on actions. From what I remember, I still don't?
...anyway, I again apologize for exploding on you. Anger's gone now.
I started leaning town on Johnny by the end of day two; that shot would not make sense night two from me. Night one maybe.
It's cool. I'm Tammy, ruiner of gambits. Don't think it would have worked, I'm not much of a gambiter, but I guess I could have gone back to sleep instead of post.
It didn't even need to last that long honestly - just toDay.
Hopefully toNight scum try to kill me and either you protected me, denying them a kill, or someone else just in case. One way or another, soD5 would reveal things either with my flip or with the fact that no one died and I'd have to explain - at that point there'd be no reason to keep the charade going.
I can confirm that Tammy claimed protective to me in our neighborhood chat.
I for a moment thought that this was some smart play from Tammy, claiming the doctor variant to me and then telling Sloth to murder me if she dies overnight but apparently not.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Lol, you guys are adorable. @Sloth I don't think you would have fooled scum, Tammy's "got doctor all over her" as she said. @Tammy, don't feel bad about missing your protects, scum have been making strange NK choices to obviously try to avoid protects. Interestingly, they seem to have not noticed the Tammy-Doctor connection which makes me doubt my scum!Anak read because I think he would have gotten that. I really don't see why Tammy is still alive otherwise. Maybe the doctor fake claim would have worked.
Also, doesn't this mean we have two claimed vig variants? (Sloth and Cuth)
Maybe?
I wondered about this myself, but I'm not sure if I want to give it a lot weight as far as a solid line of reasoning. The roles seem different enough and I'm like a much weaker version of his ability - but I do have multi-shot so maybe it balances it?
Either way, there are too many roles floating around that are confusing to have on the same game and on the same alignment, but they can't all be fake and some are even already confirmed, so I'm not worrying too much on that, rather focusing on what the actions of the players mean.
Uhhm sloth literally claimed the target on GJ did he not? The night he died? I read it fast, someone confirm since I'm still at work
Yep, that's what happened.
So far there's been no claim of any other vit lost from the scum vit thief on d2 though - like, now is the time to claim that.
Since no one else has, I'm assuming I was the target and Tammy was successful in protecting me?
Lol, you guys are adorable. @Sloth I don't think you would have fooled scum, Tammy's "got doctor all over her" as she said. @Tammy, don't feel bad about missing your protects, scum have been making strange NK choices to obviously try to avoid protects. Interestingly, they seem to have not noticed the Tammy-Doctor connection which makes me doubt my scum!Anak read because I think he would have gotten that. I really don't see why Tammy is still alive otherwise. Maybe the doctor fake claim would have worked.
Subjective. Based on what?
As for the rest, they could, in theory, simply be trying to shoot outside of what they would assume her targets are? Would explain the CC kill, given he's been a lurker and I would have thought unlikely to be protected. Though that opens the question as to why they thought CC was a better kill than a Doctor.
@Sloth, Why did you scum read me last Night? Do you still scum read me?
Residual thoughts from D1 and early D2. I gave you a lot of slack after your claim and honestly didn't think of you much until the Az flip.
I talked about this before, but with rhand and az both confirmed as town and as JK and BP respectively, we had way too many protective roles in the game by including a bodyguard - and this was before the confirmation of a Doctor with no obvious drawbacks to their protection.
I had mentioned to Tammy my intention to shoot one of these protective roles unless she had better suggestions, she didn't. With Az flipping town, I just shot my shot 'cause why not.
Then D4 started and you were alive, and Anak claimed his bizarre claim (in a game where you die by losing vit, any role that gives vit is protection of a sort). Like, at least one of you has to be telling the truth, which means this game has, by my count, 4.5 protectives (.5 being Silver). The alternative is that both you and Anak are scummates and fakeclaiming and somehow chose to fakeclaim a similar type of role for...reasons.
So, this ties back to what I told Bur just above: I'm kind of taking role conflicts out of consideration unless we're talking about two players counterclaiming the exact same role.
I've also kind of liked your posts toDay, all in all. You seem lackadaisical and unbothered by all of this - btw, do you not care you're down vit?
I'm King Shrewd, Town Tyrant. I'm a pragmatic ruler, father of Chivalry, Verity, and Regal and unafraid of murder politics. I'm perfectly willing to doom myself so long as I bring my family's enemies down with me.
This translates to my ability Eye For Eye, I can spend 1 vit on me to take 1 vit away from others.
N1 I targeted no one.
N2 I killed GJ (ok, in fairness, I had no ******* clue he'd die) - this I claimed to Tammy, along with everything else, and you can see her one-sided conversation with me on her posts yesterDay which should have been another ******* clue, tammy.
N3 I targeted Boom for reasons stated. Kinda forgot he had that extra vit so I almost jumped on him when I saw he was alive. Wisp calling on cuth reminded me.
And that's it, now you know. Was it ******* worth it?
So your whole role is "Spend one, remove one"? That's the whole thing?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So I'm reading through GJ's ISO atm. He's one I usually either can't read well or flip flop on in the later game, so I wanna do this. Also, other Odd reasons which I won't discuss.
His early day 1 stuff reads as slightly defensive, but also annoyed that people are fingering him as not using meta against me being a thing that might make him scum. IDK where the annoyance is actually coming from, but it doesn't seem like something obviously motivated by alignment. Maybe even a little in the positive direction as he's pushing against pushing me to any significant extent. It feels like the logical progression of fake logic scum!GJ would be following to push me here.
I'm not a HUGE fan of bringing out Champs rule in so early, but it's not alignment specific. I just don't feel like 300 posts is a good sample size to call someone a lurker.
I feel like his vote on Silver could be telling to his alignment. After a medium length discussion, he seems to be feeling him out. Hmmm. Ok maybe this conversation isn't pointing me in a direction for GJ's alignment, but I will say I don't think this is theatre. Silver and GJ probably aren't both scum together.
So the more I read, the more I see the votes he's made on people less as attempts to push on scummy things people are doing, and more saying "I find you the most scummy" while still hunting aside from that, which I like from him. Ex. He votes Silver, then later votes CC while still feeling Silver out for his alignment.
And I think the votes on Tubba (which is consistant with his position Day 1 due to Tubba's reaction to CC's implosion) then subsequent vote on WakeMeUp is good for him as well, because unless Tubba is a buddy of GJ's, why switch votes there, and leave it on not Tubba given GJ's positioning? Oh wait, he's got that doublevote thing. .Even. so, I think his votes are -fine-.
So, I think GJ is pretty decently likely to be town.
I crumbed it earlier. This is why I specifically wanted to look at GJ, to see if my mirror was possible scum
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Okay, but I have to admit, I am completely weirded out that you have like, one of the easiest to prove roles in the entire universe and you haven't used it once.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It doesn't use the term "nightkill".
Just "at Night, you can spend 1vit to protect player xyz, if an attempt is made to harm them, you will lose an additional 1vit."
(Paraphrasing)
Bessie: Hey, Az has information that wasn't on the thread that he could have only gotten from Boom. He must have gotten it from a private chat!
Me: ...wait you came to this reasonable conclusion, why aren't you pressing on it instead of being coy?
Bessie: I did, look at this post.
Me: Oh I see. Az?
Az: here's my answer. Sloth doesn't remember it and won't go back to look for it, but it was reasonable so sloth dropped it. Plus I flipped town so what's it matter?
Me: Fair.
And that's the story.
"Would confirmation of my super townie ability accomplish something guys?"
...Really?
You can ask anyone, and you yourself should know this, but "floaty complex non-linear processes" are something I can easily do as town or scum. Me not doing it is NAI.
Although, what do you expect from me exactly? I haven't caught scum, therefore I must be scum? 'cause that's honestly what this argument sounds like.
I'm trying, and I'm no more happier with the game state than anyone else. So, you know. Take that.
Would love to hear more about an actual case for me since you say I don't have any justifications for my actions.
OoG IRL time: Most of you may not know this but my state has moved into week 5 of the COVID vaccine distributions as of Monday, which essentially means all my clients and staff now qualify and are prioritized to get vaccinated (yay).
Unfortunately this means that 90% of my time is literally being eaten up with coordination, arrangement and execution of such events for hundreds of people because that apparently falls under me. I'm going insane.
Essentially, this game is...very much falling in priority to me, sorry. I'm still around but this was literally the only time I've had so far to check in and that's not going to change.
Wanted to make sure you knew - you as well, @Grape
Night!
Why does HR’s ability if real as stated make you believe that Cuth’s role is real as stated? I don’t see the correlation.
Bodyguards die when they protect, I just get what amounts to a minor inconvenience for reasons already: I really don't expect to die as a result of my ability.
But yes, I brought this up yesterDay, there are far too many protection roles running around. Technically Silver sort of was too, and Anak's claim is a protection of sorts.
You really think he wouldn't say anything about Anak's ability in light of that? Why?
This is not what you claimed to me. I just double checked the skill, and you implied that you were a vit thief and said that you use one vitality to take one vitality. You said you didn't target HR night one, but that you were responsible for GJ night two. (And, you said yes that was me which I took to mean you took vitality from Boomfang. When I asked you why GJ instead of one of the top wagons, you talked about your suspicion on Johnny and that you didn't mean to kill him because you didn't expect him to die but you wanted to see how he reacted to losing vitality. In fact, in number 9, you literally asked me if I had an opinion on who you should shoot to which I replied that my understanding of the game was too *****ty to have an opinion on this. You said you have one more shot.
I don't know why you're claiming something completely different than what you claimed to me AND I don't know why you're claiming protection knowing that I know who the doctor is. Is there a reason you're not mentioning the targets you took?
Not only do I have a huge problem with you claiming something completely different than you claimed to me, but I'm hard counter claiming this role.
My name is Molly, and I'm the town Chandler. I'm trying to keep my family's shop alive. My ability is Mother's Pride and each night I can spend a certain amount of vitality to protect someone. They lose no vitality if they are attacked.
I claimed to Bur after wisp suggested I should claim because he's right I've been terrible this game. I do always pay attention to the night kill because I use the nightkill to gauge my understanding of the game, but I don't usually focus on it as much as I do this game. KJ - I asked you who you thought the nightkill would be because I wanted help with who I should target last night; KJ gave me a list. Also KJ when I asked you if Boom's role was compatible with a doctor, I meant with another player being a doctor not if he was basically the doctor. I also asked Bur yesterday, but they just said they hoped I wasn't the nightkill (which got me a little paranoid because I thought it meant that I was actually dying, which is why I started today saying that I thought Bur was town due to me being alive. Although if they thought Cantrip was vig, that would be more important than me, but I still think that Bur is likely town.) Oh and my reaction to the boomfang is me trying to work out how his role fit with mine, which I considered it might. I'd be the early game protection until my vitality ran out and by that time maybe he has enough vitality to pick up end game protection. This was also why I was trying to make sense of protective claims yesterday, because I am one. I did not leave any crumbs, but I've got doctor tells all over me.
When I got my role, I figured I'd see if I got a town read on Iso and if I thought Iso was town, I'd protect him until my vitality ran out. But then I got really concerned about the way he tunneled on crop circles day one and how it looked like he didn't read them after they're big wall of reads that I didn't think looked scummy. Not that it made him scum to be wrong or that he had to town read him, just that it didn't look like he was reading him. My town read just took a hit from it. Anyway I spent the night trying to figure out a town read that I trusted and found none, settled between Iso and Vaimes for protection thinking that if they were town they'd be more likely to die. Literally thought about protecting Rhand but decided he was more likely to be scum and wouldn't be the nightkill even if he were town. And I was wrong.
Doesn't matter though because I ****ed up the time zones. I asked Grapefruit for when deadline was and he converted it for me, but I don't live in EST anymore and forgot to convert to my actual time zone, so I missed deadline by a half an hour.
Night two I protected Sloth because I suck. Silver was my strongest town read at the time and should have been my no brainer protect especially with an investigative role. But I did not consider that silver would be a high priority kill, and I should have. I did consider Johnny because if I were scum that's who I'd kill. Johnny was putting in the most effort to solve and move the game forward out of anyone here, except wisp, and if I were scum that'd be my target. I only didn't protect him because he was just an even day double voter, so he was basically a vanilla townie day three, and I thought scum would go for a role that would affect them more. And I thought that the way Sloth was so convinced at the end of day meant that he had something on Azrael and that he was an investigative of some sort, so I protected there. (Oh, I double checked with grapefruit that my night two protection was one night only and did not affect Cuth's attack there. I knew it didn't, but I figured I'd double check so that I could verify I wasn't the cause of that.)
Last night I protected Vaimes. I actually considered Cantrip, but much like night one I thought well Cantrip really isn't posting much so why would they kill him? I looked over the list that KJ gave me and ultimately went for Vaimes. I thought if town he'd be a likely kill for the same reason that I thought Johnny would be a likely kill - not that he's doing as much solving as Johnny was but he's a strong presence when he's here.
So yes, I'm a sucky ass doctor and I'm doing terribly. I keep considering the actual nightkill and then discounting it which just says my understanding of the game state is actual ass.
My vote is in spirit on Sloth.
Tammy. For god's sake. I was obviously trying to lure the claim away from you.
What, did you think I could convince people to side with me over you if you were to CC me? Seriously?
You were obviously the doc, it was down to you and bessie and there's no way bessie skill-claims you of all people. Plus your first post today, and the other comments.
You already knew my real role and its limitations so I thought by making it obvious and go "HEY ALL, I'M DOC, ISN'T THAT RIGHT TAMMY, THAT I'M DOC SURE WOULD BE A SHAME IF SCUM ******* KILLED ME THE DOC TONIGHT WOULDN'T IT" you'd pick up on the fact that "oh wait, I see what he's doing."
Not go "oh he's obviously the dumbest ******* scum alive."
You even had my role to claim if you needed it, not that anyone was pressing you to.
****.
It crossed my mind that you might be scum who thought I was your traitor and was going to lie for you.
It didn't cross my mind that you were trying to lure the claim away from me.
My anxiety level is at defcon 5 at the moment. My brain is not firing on all cylinders right now.
I'm King Shrewd, Town Tyrant. I'm a pragmatic ruler, father of Chivalry, Verity, and Regal and unafraid of murder politics. I'm perfectly willing to doom myself so long as I bring my family's enemies down with me.
This translates to my ability Eye For Eye, I can spend 1 vit on me to take 1 vit away from others.
N1 I targeted no one.
N2 I killed GJ (ok, in fairness, I had no ******* clue he'd die) - this I claimed to Tammy, along with everything else, and you can see her one-sided conversation with me on her posts yesterDay which should have been another ******* clue, tammy.
N3 I targeted Boom for reasons stated. Kinda forgot he had that extra vit so I almost jumped on him when I saw he was alive. Wisp calling on cuth reminded me.
And that's it, now you know. Was it ******* worth it?
I wanted to skill you to make sure you knew, but as you may recall, that's not an option for me right now. Do not go over why.
I mean if you're town and were trying to lure the role away, thank you.
It's not something that crosses my mind on a good day. I just don't really play around with claims like that. It's probably in part why players like Azrael are so hard for me to read until I come to understand the ways and whys for their playing coo chi-coo with roles and reads.
Perhaps I didn't think that one through too much in my excitement of what I saw as a perfect gambit, but I didn't see it as not making sense for you based on actions. From what I remember, I still don't?
...anyway, I again apologize for exploding on you. Anger's gone now.
I started leaning town on Johnny by the end of day two; that shot would not make sense night two from me. Night one maybe.
It's cool. I'm Tammy, ruiner of gambits. Don't think it would have worked, I'm not much of a gambiter, but I guess I could have gone back to sleep instead of post.
Hopefully toNight scum try to kill me and either you protected me, denying them a kill, or someone else just in case. One way or another, soD5 would reveal things either with my flip or with the fact that no one died and I'd have to explain - at that point there'd be no reason to keep the charade going.
I for a moment thought that this was some smart play from Tammy, claiming the doctor variant to me and then telling Sloth to murder me if she dies overnight but apparently not.
I’m not gonna bother panicking about Too Many Townreads until bessie claims.
I wondered about this myself, but I'm not sure if I want to give it a lot weight as far as a solid line of reasoning. The roles seem different enough and I'm like a much weaker version of his ability - but I do have multi-shot so maybe it balances it?
Either way, there are too many roles floating around that are confusing to have on the same game and on the same alignment, but they can't all be fake and some are even already confirmed, so I'm not worrying too much on that, rather focusing on what the actions of the players mean.
Yep, that's what happened.
So far there's been no claim of any other vit lost from the scum vit thief on d2 though - like, now is the time to claim that.
Since no one else has, I'm assuming I was the target and Tammy was successful in protecting me?
Subjective. Based on what?
As for the rest, they could, in theory, simply be trying to shoot outside of what they would assume her targets are? Would explain the CC kill, given he's been a lurker and I would have thought unlikely to be protected. Though that opens the question as to why they thought CC was a better kill than a Doctor.
Residual thoughts from D1 and early D2. I gave you a lot of slack after your claim and honestly didn't think of you much until the Az flip.
I talked about this before, but with rhand and az both confirmed as town and as JK and BP respectively, we had way too many protective roles in the game by including a bodyguard - and this was before the confirmation of a Doctor with no obvious drawbacks to their protection.
I had mentioned to Tammy my intention to shoot one of these protective roles unless she had better suggestions, she didn't. With Az flipping town, I just shot my shot 'cause why not.
Then D4 started and you were alive, and Anak claimed his bizarre claim (in a game where you die by losing vit, any role that gives vit is protection of a sort). Like, at least one of you has to be telling the truth, which means this game has, by my count, 4.5 protectives (.5 being Silver). The alternative is that both you and Anak are scummates and fakeclaiming and somehow chose to fakeclaim a similar type of role for...reasons.
So, this ties back to what I told Bur just above: I'm kind of taking role conflicts out of consideration unless we're talking about two players counterclaiming the exact same role.
I've also kind of liked your posts toDay, all in all. You seem lackadaisical and unbothered by all of this - btw, do you not care you're down vit?
And just like that, he was gone again.
I'm Bee, Town Daughter. My flavor is that I'm the daughter of Fitz and Molly. I'm weird, and my parents are protective of me.
I'm just the Odd day version of GJ's role. Two votes on Odd days, can't vote the same person twice.
Is there any evidence of you using your role? I literally do not remember ever seeing you vote twice.
Also, we're more like one double voter split in half.
This is missing something,