What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
Hm. If Cuth agrees to follow town orders with his shot, would you be ok with him shooting? That's the only way I can see his shooting toNight.
ALTHOUGH Bessie is a decent shot choice without being told. I like that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But we should be treating this like mylo, and trying to find a wolf, and not defaulting to me
I'm not trying to speak for KJ (he can correct me) but given that he said I was the one to make him realize we are likely in MyLo, I'm assuming he was talking about P#3749, where I point out that the only surefire way to avoid a loss is by safely yeeting you out. Or at least getting you out by yeeting a witted.
This is why I was championing your yeet to begin with. Anak's an acceptable switch because he outted himself and he's witted. If not for that, I'd still just yeet you for safety, I think?
@ALL Speaking of Anak, can I get more votes on him? I'm not saying we should be ending the Day now, but I'm honestly disconcerted that I have literally delivered him to you all in silver platter yet the only one that has followed me on him is the 3rder to whom Anak's flip is irrelevant to victory.
If you are not voting him, I would at least like to hear why? Seriously.
Also where is Anak anyway?
All I can really say is sorry guys, I made some assumptions about my role that I shouldn't have. After the last confirming with GF I just basically have lost anything I had for this game, because I know I should be the yeet today and I know what's gonna happen.
Like there's nothing I can really say or do that's going to change that, and then people going through me being a wet noodle at the same time as I realizing that I ****ed up with how I thought my role worked just sucked all the fun out of the game. If its any consolation its likely the last game I play for a long while, so you all won't have to worry about me like this again.
@Sloth Delivered on a silver platter a bad town I guess. The question I would pose to you is, what about that contradiction comes from scum? I can't really deny any of the facts you laid out, but try to show the mindset there isn't scum.
You know I have a lot of vitality, since Wisp didn't kill me last night, I hope that's not up for debate. So we all know that part is at least true. Is it just that you think my role is actually a scum vitality giver? Bit odd because why wouldn't I target a scumbuddy and power them up.
Do you think I wasn't giving Az vitality? I could actually confirm this tonight, I lied about one other small thing. I actually have 2 vitality left not 1, I actually started with 6. I faked that in case a singe-vit ability was sent my way, and there wasn't really a downside to doing so.
All this to say, I could target you Sloth (or anyone the town chooses), and tonight you would get a vitality from me and I wouldn't actually die tonight, barring Wisp of course. "But Anak we don't have time, its MyLo/LyLo probably, all scum need is 1 night" yeah I know, but its really all I can do.
Sorry for costing us all the game most likely, it was a hard one but I definitely didn't help that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Anak
ya outside worlds where you maliciously brought the mod into the game, you pretty much semi-spewed the existence of your ability, or you playing dirty
the problem is that, that doesn't really make you town?
I really hated your vote on Cuth, like there really isn't a justifiable reason for voting like that in what is possibly mylo
its pretty much I vote in Tubba or you, hoping one is a wolf, or throw the game for myself, cause I'm never hitting Highroller, and I kinda forgot who else has wit, that is in the wolf PoE.
also if anyone isn't having its me lol
There is also no arguable reason why you should be giving up here if you realistically think you would throwing the game for town
also if anyone isn't having its me lol
There is also no arguable reason why you should be giving up here if you realistically think you would throwing the game for town
I kinda had this thought as well actually.
But I didn't wanna be like "This guilt is not worthy of throwing the game for his team" cuz that would be rude.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I was hoping to get more caught up today, but I'm super exhausted and have a terrible headache which gets worse with looking at a computer, which is what I do all day. I've kinda skimmed the last page and this one so sorry that I'm missing stuff; hopefully tomorrow this headache will start to die down so I can read more than just skim some.
I'm not sure why Bessie thinks she caught Cuth with something or needs coaching on the possible 4 mafia thing. We've already discussed possibilities, and considering this site uses three mafia members for a 12 person game, having four with a neutral seems a reasonable assumption to make. I need to shore up my read on Cuth, but don't really think that's a gotcha moment.
But we should be treating this like mylo, and trying to find a wolf, and not defaulting to me
I'm not trying to speak for KJ (he can correct me) but given that he said I was the one to make him realize we are likely in MyLo, I'm assuming he was talking about P#3749, where I point out that the only surefire way to avoid a loss is by safely yeeting you out. Or at least getting you out by yeeting a witted.
This is why I was championing your yeet to begin with. Anak's an acceptable switch because he outted himself and he's witted. If not for that, I'd still just yeet you for safety, I think?
@ALL Speaking of Anak, can I get more votes on him? I'm not saying we should be ending the Day now, but I'm honestly disconcerted that I have literally delivered him to you all in silver platter yet the only one that has followed me on him is the 3rder to whom Anak's flip is irrelevant to victory.
If you are not voting him, I would at least like to hear why? Seriously.
Also where is Anak anyway?
All I can really say is sorry guys, I made some assumptions about my role that I shouldn't have. After the last confirming with GF I just basically have lost anything I had for this game, because I know I should be the yeet today and I know what's gonna happen.
Like there's nothing I can really say or do that's going to change that, and then people going through me being a wet noodle at the same time as I realizing that I ****ed up with how I thought my role worked just sucked all the fun out of the game. If its any consolation its likely the last game I play for a long while, so you all won't have to worry about me like this again.
@Sloth Delivered on a silver platter a bad town I guess. The question I would pose to you is, what about that contradiction comes from scum? I can't really deny any of the facts you laid out, but try to show the mindset there isn't scum.
You know I have a lot of vitality, since Wisp didn't kill me last night, I hope that's not up for debate. So we all know that part is at least true. Is it just that you think my role is actually a scum vitality giver? Bit odd because why wouldn't I target a scumbuddy and power them up.
Do you think I wasn't giving Az vitality? I could actually confirm this tonight, I lied about one other small thing. I actually have 2 vitality left not 1, I actually started with 6. I faked that in case a singe-vit ability was sent my way, and there wasn't really a downside to doing so.
All this to say, I could target you Sloth (or anyone the town chooses), and tonight you would get a vitality from me and I wouldn't actually die tonight, barring Wisp of course. "But Anak we don't have time, its MyLo/LyLo probably, all scum need is 1 night" yeah I know, but its really all I can do.
Sorry for costing us all the game most likely, it was a hard one but I definitely didn't help that.
I am so confused by this though because in 3240, you say that you can wit someone else and that would start draining your vitality, but in 3245 you said that you just confirmed with Grapefruit that you can't wit another person, but another person can wit you and you would give them vitality, which you thought would kill you. But now you're saying that you can target someone to give them vitality through wit.
(And, Iso targeted Azrael not you, so the why would I question is hard to answer. The simple answer for why Iso would target town if scum is to look town.)
*****! Sorry you're correct I can't Wit again, I just can not keep this role straight. If someone else Witted me then I would give them a vitality each night but I myself am out of shots
What I get for trying to find ways to prove myself I guess.
I guess my vote did not use proper syntax. Vote: LastWhisper
If Grapefruit were to come in and say, "Because reasons, no one can vote LastWhisper today, vote someone else," I'd be fine with voting Anak. I definitely didn't think he was town going into today, and today certainly hasn't helped him any in my eyes. I continue to believe LastWhisper is the best vote, however.
For those who don't think Wisp is mafia: please explain why the mafia has been protecting him this entire time.
LastWhisper: It's probably way too late for this, but we need to talk about your posting habits, man.
The game is 77 pages long. You've made over 800 posts. Meaning you have made over 16 pages worth of posts. That's over a fifth of the posts, despite it being an 18-player game. For context, you've made 339 posts more than Vaimes, who is the second highest poster. Meaning if we were to make nearly 7 pages worth of only your posts disappear (out of 77 pages total), you would still have the most posts this game.
Would you mind toning it down, please? It's difficult enough to reread the thread. You're en route to making it nigh-unfeasible.
Ftr, I was/am pushing for a Wisp yeet toDay because it is a valid strategy for this game. No one seemed to disagree with that when we proposed it D1.
And yet here we are on day 4...
It's just very clear there are people who are totally against ever lynching Wisp at all. Where this willingness to dive on a grenade to protect Wisp comes from is beyond me.
In fact, open question to those who are against killing Wisp today: so when are we going to kill him, then, if not today?
Highroller: I don't know it's not LyLo today, but with claimed roles it's not currently LyLo
Of course it is.
We know there are at least 4 threats to the town in this game, given the starting player size of 18 people. Given that we had 18 and not 16, it's possible we have 5.
Meaning we either have 5 mafia, 4 mafia and neutral LastWhisper, or 4 mafia. We should assume for 5 hostiles when making our plan for today.
If we have 7 towns to 5 mafia, if we mislynch and the mafia kills a town, they win.
If we have 7 towns, 4 mafia, and neutral LastWhisper, if we mislynch, the mafia kills someone, and LastWhisper kills someone, we lose.
it'd be better if you'd stop accusing me of being a wolf, but here we are
since I am not Wisp, I am just Kamikaze 2.0 to you
that's the only thing that really annoys me
Yeah but if there are 5 mafia, killing wisp (which is effectively a musky choice if a neutral for number purposes), leaves us at 11. Mafia kills one tonight and if cuth is telling the truth about his role and shoots unblocked and misses by killing one town. We lose. Well I think we lose anyway at one town shot anyway.
So if you actually believe 5 mafia then our best chance is to hit mafia today, not take out the neural.
I might have ****ed up end game math, but I don’t think we have 5 mafia. And if we do have 5 mafia then scum almost definitely have to have at least one witted.
You're either mafia or, best case scenario/only-other-possible case scenario, you're the other type of threat to the town we need to kill in order to win and to prevent more towns from dying.
Why risk it? Why keep you alive?
Because of all the mafia you could kill? You haven't killed any mafia. In fact, you haven't killed anybody. Even if we assume you've been telling the truth about your role and actually were to believe in its utility, you've still managed to kill no one with it, and we're now at the point where it would be a major liability for you to do so.
We should behave as if we’re in lylo, but yeeting wisp doesn’t actually help us as a neutral.
If there’s 4 mafia, and we yet a witted, wisp leaves and puts us at 4-5 tomorrow if we misyeet unless cuth shoots and is successful and mishoots we lose.
If we hit a witted mafia, wisp leaves, they hit town tonight and cuth mishoots successfully, we’ll be at 3-5 which still gives us a chance.
I think, but I think it’s best to hit mafia today.
@bessie I'm not even saying you're wrong on Cuth or aren't making valid points re: how he's approaching you, but what does this boil down to? He hasn't answered this one question, therefore he's scum? (Or is he scum to you, have you actually said that? You're voting Wisp from what I saw previous page).
Like, do you have anything more to say on Cuth and what is your read on him ultimately?
Cuthalion has been on my short list of players I would vote for since D2.
My final D2 post:
And, ummm, and the one question Cuthalion won’t answer is “why did you vote for me?”, not something like “what did you have for dinner last night?” Or did I somehow misunderstand and you do RVS at the start of every game day on this forum? [/sarcasm]
Pings which I pointed out in my posts: #1524 : odd start of D2 post and preemptive excuse for not reading Tammy and Vaimes. #2350 : Suspicion that he was pushing to yet BoomFrog D2 even though he wasn’t necessarily scum reading BoomFrog, so that he could get his bonus. #2507 : Posting reads without giving reasons. #3273 Voting for me for a vague unexplained reason.
Posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 : Won’t respond to my requests to explain his vote. #3674 One of his issues with me is that I’m suspicious of him, and he’s so obvitown. [/sarcasm].
More stuff already pointed out on this page: Refusal to give a read on me and justify his vote, and is leaning on Wisp and Vaimes to do it for him.
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
i'm not going to spend time arguing with you about why you're not a wolf, but i will explain to the rest of the thread why i think you are at some later point (probably when people are itt and ready to discuss things in depth and i'm not a zombie)
You are misrepresenting what I am asking and I think you know it. I am not arguing your points against me because you haven’t given any.
Meaning we either have 5 mafia, 4 mafia and neutral LastWhisper, or 4 mafia.
I probably should have used semicolons here. To clarify, I'm saying we have three possible scenarios:
A. 5 mafia (Wisp is one of them)
B. 4 mafia, 1 neutral (Wisp)
C. 4 mafia (Wisp is one of them)
Scenarios such as 3 mafia and 1 neutral, or 5 mafia and 1 neutral should be dismissed. The former because that would be Grape utterly screwing the mafia over, and the latter because that would be Grape utterly screwing the town over.
We should behave as if we’re in lylo, but yeeting wisp doesn’t actually help us as a neutral.
If there’s 4 mafia, and we yet a witted, wisp leaves and puts us at 4-5 tomorrow if we misyeet unless cuth shoots and is successful and mishoots we lose.
If we hit a witted mafia, wisp leaves, they hit town tonight and cuth mishoots successfully, we’ll be at 3-5 which still gives us a chance.
I think, but I think it’s best to hit mafia today.
Except here's the problem what what you're saying:
LastWhisper offers no possibility of error. Killing LastWhisper gives us a 0% chance of killing a town and a 100% chance of killing a threat to the town. In LyLo.
Whereas every one of your scenarios includes the word IF. There is a greater probability of error versus 0% probability of error.
Let me put it another way, you ever play a shell game? Or a game of three-card monte? You know, the games where there's three choices and if you get the correct card or find which shell the thing is under, you win? Well, in case anyone doesn't know how those games work, it's a con. The trick is that the dealer uses sleight of hand. The correct card is switched with a different card without you noticing, so none of the three cards presented before you is the correct one; or, in the case of the shell game, the coin or whatever is removed, so none of the three shells have the coin under it.
The reason why is simple: why would anyone ever give you a 33.3% chance of winning when they can give you a 0% chance of winning?
So. I ask you: why present the mafia with any probability of winning before we can get to day 5 when we can just get to day 5 with a 0% chance of failure?
@Iso:It's bad when you're basing assumptions on unknown info. It's not "if this person is scum then that person is" so much as "He's scum, so so are they" which doesn't logically follow given the uncertainty of the info.
I mean, I've made that very play, before, and voted for the player of the two that I thought was a bigger threat. As town. So, I think this is null.
This doesn't even match your catch-up post. Which I remember, because it was mostly good, and I'm not sure what happened between now and then.
wut. I don't see how this does not match my catch-up, given that I made it immediately after gathering my thoughts post-catch-up. Elaborate?
Also, stop threatening to daykill CC!
I will when he stops being scum.
So, this is the post where Iso basically hints twice that he witted Azrael, but why does he choose a person who hadn't even posted yet to start giving vitality to?
I feel fixated right now because none of this makes sense. It doesn't make sense to me that Iso would choose someone who hadn't even posted yet to wit and give vitality to when that role could be used to give a pr more vitality. And then the contradictions are more concerning.
But is it scum?
Everything says yes to me, but I'm even less confident in this than I normally am.
Beyond that, do you have other reads? Who's in your bottom 3? or top 3? (if you've gone over them in a recent post, just point me to it)
I’ve been trying to do a real reads list but I there has just been too much content and I never was even able to get back to the last half of D1. On my home site most complete games were around 20 pages or so, and I am usually behind even in small games. I don’t have any references from my home site easily available (but will try to find something if requested). Or there are some places where I was talking about my time constraints and problems with content overload in the games I linked earlier. https://smashboards.com/threads/flavorless-mafia-iii-game-over-who-won.501573/
Here’s my reads without doing a thread reread, I skimmed through D4 content as I wrote this.
Anak – I thought he was scummy yesterday and I ended the day with one of my votes on him. I still find him suspicious for his D4 content and would vote for him today.
BoomFrog – I have never been that good at reading BoomFrog but I haven’t had any major scum pings from him. The only ping I have is the odd comment he made in post #3602 about my push on Azrael. Like I said I wasn’t the only player pushing Azrael so I am suspicious as to why he pointed out why that was a negative for me in particular.
Bur – The thing that I previously found most suspicious about Bur was that he voted without giving reasons. I skilled him because I had a free skill, and he did explain some reads more in chat than he was doing in the thread. I still do not have a strong town lean but I am against voting for him today.
Cuthalion – He has been one of my scum reads since D2. He is voting for me without giving a reason that he can explain which I find suspicious. For more of my thoughts see my D4 posts.
Highroller – I can understand his content and his focus on Wisp.
Killjoy – I think he has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Slothful – Another player that I think has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Tammy – I was suspicious of her early game content for what seemed to me to be not taking strong positions on anything, like everything she posted had a disclaimer. Her playstyle is the type that I often clash with so that may be part of my early suspicion on her. I’m still not seeing why Tammy was obvitown early in the game but I think I was more suspicious of some players that I felt were too quick to defend Tammy without trying to understand what a player that had no prior experience with her found suspicious.
Tubba – I think I will stand by what I said previously, I don’t see the scum reads on Tubba. Maybe it is because his playstyle is more like mine, unlike someone like Tammy who’s playstyle is very different from mine.
Vaimes – I have been suspicious of Vaimes since D2, I often don’t follow his reads. Like, he started D4 voting for Cuth, but says it was just to provoke him to post. There was also this comment in post #3652: “I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart.” Like he is trying to force this read.
Wisp – Self-claimed non-town.
Ending with content through page 76. I’ll pick up on page 77 later.
Also, this has been confusing me for a while, but I don’t see every post every time I load the page. Like, in one tab I have open, the first post on page 77 is #3802, but if I open page 77 in another tab I can’t see this post and the first post is #3803. This has happened other times too where I can’t see a particular post that I remember being at the top of a page. Is this an issue for anyone else?
You're either mafia or, best case scenario/only-other-possible case scenario, you're the other type of threat to the town we need to kill in order to win and to prevent more towns from dying.
Why risk it? Why keep you alive?
Because of all the mafia you could kill? You haven't killed any mafia. In fact, you haven't killed anybody. Even if we assume you've been telling the truth about your role and actually were to believe in its utility, you've still managed to kill no one with it, and we're now at the point where it would be a major liability for you to do so.
What other reason do we have to keep you around?
none of us have killed mafia to be fair
but like, its annoying when you say its possible its lylo, and then argue I am the best yeet, and its because you live in this fantasy that I am a wolf, that I have tried to move you out of, but you have locked me as Kamikaze 2.0
and the problem here, is that you aren't helping find mafia
anyways I really don't want to devolve into one I did before again, so like if it makes you happy? yeet me? but if you lose this game day 5, or this game ends going into day 5, I will be angry that you never gave me a chance, and pretty much stopped hunting
*****! Sorry you're correct I can't Wit again, I just can not keep this role straight. If someone else Witted me then I would give them a vitality each night but I myself am out of shots
What I get for trying to find ways to prove myself I guess.
We already had this conversation dude. How could you forget what your role does twice in one game Day? lol. Come on now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hr: Do me a favor: Show me where scum Wisp's head is in this game. What is his agenda and why? Has he been consistantly scummy?
Or middle of the road/kinda townie? And has he maintained that level for 800 posts?
Honestly right now if he hadn't claimed a neutral, I'd be townreading him because I've likes some of his posts and he's maintained a level of not-scumminess for a lot of posts. I've seen this Wisp before. I even ISO'd 1300 posts to prove him scum (where he wasn't).
So, show me a hidden scum agenda that isn't obvious somewhere in his head. Else he's probably not mafia.
We're likely lynch in Tubba or Anak today probably, and if we decide otherwise, he can shoot Anak and leave. If these things happen and he doesn't leave, I'll evaluate this slot in that context then.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Bessie - Yes, I've been missing posts here and there; I'm not sure why sometimes. It's very weird. From your reads list - Do you still suspect Vaimes? I can't tell if that was a prior suspicion or still a suspicion. Is it basically cuth/anak maybe vaimes maybe bur that you're looking at?
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
Hm. If Cuth agrees to follow town orders with his shot, would you be ok with him shooting? That's the only way I can see his shooting toNight.
Probably not, no.
I mean, obviously that's preferrable.
But the only way I see that happening is if we're 100% sure on who the target should be, and even in that case, why wouldn't we just wait to yeet them the next Day? Sure the game would be dragged out for one more Day where otherwise it might have been over overNight, but why is that a problem?
All I can really say is sorry guys, I made some assumptions about my role that I shouldn't have. After the last confirming with GF I just basically have lost anything I had for this game, because I know I should be the yeet today and I know what's gonna happen.
This is something a town player just plain doesn't say at this point in the game, sorry.
(OoG: not trying to dismiss your emotions, Anak, which I believe are real regardless of your alignment. It's just a game at the end of the day )
@Sloth Delivered on a silver platter a bad town I guess. The question I would pose to you is, what about that contradiction comes from scum? I can't really deny any of the facts you laid out, but try to show the mindset there isn't scum.
I talked about the scum mindset in the contradiction and your behavior on #3756.
You know I have a lot of vitality, since Wisp didn't kill me last night, I hope that's not up for debate.
I mean, I really wouldn't speculate to how much vit scum has but it does seem ~presumable that at least one or two of them would have a fair amount of it.
Do you think I wasn't giving Az vitality? I could actually confirm this tonight, I lied about one other small thing. I actually have 2 vitality left not 1, I actually started with 6. I faked that in case a singe-vit ability was sent my way, and there wasn't really a downside to doing so.
All this to say, I could target you Sloth (or anyone the town chooses), and tonight you would get a vitality from me and I wouldn't actually die tonight, barring Wisp of course. "But Anak we don't have time, its MyLo/LyLo probably, all scum need is 1 night" yeah I know, but its really all I can do.
...how could you forget that you just said, not too long ago, that you can't target other people with your ability?
(Again, I don't mean to sound hurtful and I hope it's not coming across that way, I'm just scumhunting and you really do seem scum, buddy.)
its pretty much I vote in Tubba or you, hoping one is a wolf, or throw the game for myself, cause I'm never hitting Highroller, and I kinda forgot who else has wit, that is in the wolf PoE.
For those who don't think Wisp is mafia: please explain why the mafia has been protecting him this entire time.
Dude this question is ridiculous. What in the hell makes you think mafia's protecting him?
Lol @ you asking Wisp to top contributing to the game. Didn't you lament that he wasn't town yesterDay cause his contributions were good?
We don't need to reread a player we already know is not town.
We don't need to prove he's scum because the results of toDay will prove it one way or another.
It's just very clear there are people who are totally against ever lynching Wisp at all. Where this willingness to dive on a grenade to protect Wisp comes from is beyond me.
In fact, open question to those who are against killing Wisp today: so when are we going to kill him, then, if not today?
Well if we yeet in the witted and Wisp is still around, toMorrow. Like at that point, there's no way around it.
We've also talked about why others yeets are options to look into as well. What do you disagree with about that?
Because of all the mafia you could kill? You haven't killed any mafia. In fact, you haven't killed anybody. Even if we assume you've been telling the truth about your role and actually were to believe in its utility, you've still managed to kill no one with it, and we're now at the point where it would be a major liability for you to do so.
What other reason do we have to keep you around?
-Do you disagree that Anak is scum?
-Do you disagree that if we yeet witted and Wisp is still around, it's undeniable evidence that he's scum?
If the answer to both questions is "no", what's the problem here?
P.S. ngl, from now on, I will only refer to MLs as "Musky Choices"
We were looking for an alternative that didn't use the word "lynch" after all.
#muskychoice4life
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
Anak – I thought he was scummy yesterday and I ended the day with one of my votes on him. I still find him suspicious for his D4 content and would vote for him today.
BoomFrog – I have never been that good at reading BoomFrog but I haven’t had any major scum pings from him. The only ping I have is the odd comment he made in post #3602 about my push on Azrael. Like I said I wasn’t the only player pushing Azrael so I am suspicious as to why he pointed out why that was a negative for me in particular.
Bur – The thing that I previously found most suspicious about Bur was that he voted without giving reasons. I skilled him because I had a free skill, and he did explain some reads more in chat than he was doing in the thread. I still do not have a strong town lean but I am against voting for him today.
Cuthalion – He has been one of my scum reads since D2. He is voting for me without giving a reason that he can explain which I find suspicious. For more of my thoughts see my D4 posts.
Highroller – I can understand his content and his focus on Wisp.
Killjoy – I think he has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Slothful – Another player that I think has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Tammy – I was suspicious of her early game content for what seemed to me to be not taking strong positions on anything, like everything she posted had a disclaimer. Her playstyle is the type that I often clash with so that may be part of my early suspicion on her. I’m still not seeing why Tammy was obvitown early in the game but I think I was more suspicious of some players that I felt were too quick to defend Tammy without trying to understand what a player that had no prior experience with her found suspicious.
Tubba – I think I will stand by what I said previously, I don’t see the scum reads on Tubba. Maybe it is because his playstyle is more like mine, unlike someone like Tammy who’s playstyle is very different from mine.
Vaimes – I have been suspicious of Vaimes since D2, I often don’t follow his reads. Like, he started D4 voting for Cuth, but says it was just to provoke him to post. There was also this comment in post #3652: “I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart.” Like he is trying to force this read.
Wisp – Self-claimed non-town.
So your scum team is Cuth/Vaimes/Anak/Bur maybe?
re: HighRoller: Do you understand his lack of non-wisp content?
Can you talk more about what you like about Killjoy an I's posting style? You described us in identical terms and I want to hear...more.
And this is the thing that every practitioner of the Skill, weak or strong, must always guard against. For in using the Skill, the user feels a keenness of life, an uplifting of being, that can distract a man from taking his next breath. Compelling is this feeling, even in the common uses of the Skill, and addictive to any not hardened of purpose. But the intensity of this exultation when speaking to the Elderlings is a thing for which we have no comparison. Both senses and sense may be blasted forever from a man who uses the Skill to speak to an Elderling. Such a man dies raving, but it is also true he dies raving of his joy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
All I can really say is sorry guys, I made some assumptions about my role that I shouldn't have. After the last confirming with GF I just basically have lost anything I had for this game, because I know I should be the yeet today and I know what's gonna happen.
This is something a town player just plain doesn't say at this point in the game, sorry.
(OoG: not trying to dismiss your emotions, Anak, which I believe are real regardless of your alignment. It's just a game at the end of the day )
@Sloth Delivered on a silver platter a bad town I guess. The question I would pose to you is, what about that contradiction comes from scum? I can't really deny any of the facts you laid out, but try to show the mindset there isn't scum.
I talked about the scum mindset in the contradiction and your behavior on #3756.
You know I have a lot of vitality, since Wisp didn't kill me last night, I hope that's not up for debate.
I mean, I really wouldn't speculate to how much vit scum has but it does seem ~presumable that at least one or two of them would have a fair amount of it.
Do you think I wasn't giving Az vitality? I could actually confirm this tonight, I lied about one other small thing. I actually have 2 vitality left not 1, I actually started with 6. I faked that in case a singe-vit ability was sent my way, and there wasn't really a downside to doing so.
All this to say, I could target you Sloth (or anyone the town chooses), and tonight you would get a vitality from me and I wouldn't actually die tonight, barring Wisp of course. "But Anak we don't have time, its MyLo/LyLo probably, all scum need is 1 night" yeah I know, but its really all I can do.
...how could you forget that you just said, not too long ago, that you can't target other people with your ability?
(Again, I don't mean to sound hurtful and I hope it's not coming across that way, I'm just scumhunting and you really do seem scum, buddy.)
I could forget because I was playing pretty much entirely on emotion there and not logic when posting that. Also just having it wrong for so long I just defaulted back to that. Obviously not great lol
Yeah I agree that its likely 1 of the scum has a good chunk of vitality that could tank that hit from Wisp, what I'm pointing out is that for your logic to work I basically have to be exactly that role, while also having The Wit. It's a pretty precise set of circumstances that you are trying to fit my role into, while it makes a lot more sense to be town.
Also if you think there are things that town players don't say at a point in the game, then by golly you haven't read many games I am in. I usually find the wrong things to say at the wrong times, probably the thing that I am the best at
You don't sound hurtful, and I can see that you are just genuinely scum hunting. Again looking objectively, I would be voting for me because realistically you can't really let someone live that's contradicted themselves about their role like I did. So playing bad like that made me super frustrated, then others talked about me basically always being a wet noodle as that happened just kind of coalesced together and made the game a ball of frustration that I was just better off ignoring for a while.
@Wisp I hope you don't really think I played or tried anything dirty, I may be bad but I (don't think) I have ever done anything untowards. The mistakes this game were all mine, not the mods in any way.
Now, all that aside, time to try and convince you all not to yeet me today. Simple enough right?
@KJ Sorry needed to get a chance back at the computer to type up a reads-list, I knew you were looking for it but trying on mobile wasn't gonna end well.
Tammy - Lock Town, if shes scum then happy to lose to her, nothing about what she has said or done or how she has said anything has felt scummy at all.
KJ - Pretty confident town, asks good questions, mindset is consistent. Pokes at people in meaningful ways that is actually trying to gather information, and not just for show.
Vaimes - Lean townish? Fine enough I guess, hasn't done a ton as the game has progressed, some decent scumhunting at times but not as much as others. Possible deep wolf, but not at the point where ever consider voting him.
Sloth - Lean Town, didn't get a ton early game but the last couple days has really done some solid scumhunting. Don't see the mindset coming from scum, also probably lose if scum since just never see myself wanting to yeet them.
HR - Scum, sorry I just don't buy it, and I know what other's have said about meta and all that. I really think most people's PoE's are so weird because they aren't including HR, and I would challenge you to do so. This game isn't easy, the PoE isn't gonna be the easy candidates either at this point.
Tubba - Lean scum, when asked for a PoE just tosses out Cuth and I and then doesn't really know from there. Reads to me more that they didn't know who to pick, so started with the 2 easiest targets and just kind of made the rest up. D2 is still pretty suspect as well. Also their role of passing Wits between players seems like a good way to sabotage players (this is admittedly the smallest point against them, but it just feels like a scum ability to me)
Bessie - Neutral and trending down, had townish for a while based on how they came out and went at Tammy, didn't really expect scum to start off that way. Haven't seen much since then though that really did anything for me, and scumread me for reasons that didn't feel super legitimate in regards to Az. Role is an easy one to fake too.
Boom - Slight town, role seems pretty town as much as that can be trusted. I agree with pretty much all their thoughts on Wisp today, so that's inclining me towards towning them as well. Looks to me like they ask a lot of questions that they don't follow up with often, gives them a shallow fake kind of feel.
Wisp - 3rder, any real discussion of being Mafia is asinine. If Wisp is Mafia here then he is far better than I remember him being (and I remember him being a pretty good player).
Cuth - ???, is weird accurate? Think so, and I don't like weird. Crumbing a role is neat and all, harping on that doesn't do much to help themselves. I also feel like I'm forgetting all of their claimed night actions. Person I need to read the most up on tonight, could go either way right now.
Bur - Lean Town, hasn't done a whole lot but also hasn't done anything really wrong either. Few fine questions and pokes, but honestly they might be the one person where the role is enough to put at town for now.
So trying to make a PoE out of that for now would lead me to something like
HR/Tubba/Cuth/Bessie or Boom
That's not really a PoE I love though. Seems too easy at this stage of the game honestly.... hmpf food for thought here, need to look at the wagons after dinner here and see if those people make sense.
(Bonus spicy "We Are Screwed PoE" of something like HR/Vaimes/Bur/Sloth is sitting in the back of my mind, which feels much more like a team that could have led us to this point in the game than the one above.)
Please ask about anything above that anyone wants more details on, not going too in depth at the moment since trying to make sure I can finish this post and get it out without making others wait longer.
That feels more like a day 1 read list written in day 4, like there is no real reason why you have to hedge, like even bessie explained her feelings and gave conclusions
Can someone actually explain to this Anak case to me?
I've been drive-by playing last few days and what I've understood, it boils down to Anak saying his role was confirmed to Az and then later it turns out it wasn't?
Especially @sloth: what makes this scum!Anak lying about this role instead of town!Anak just not understanding properly his role?
Private Mod Note
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I’m not totally sold on the scum!Anak narrative. I’d like to be, because it boots Wisp out of the yeet pool, but I have an ugly feeling about it.
You’re telling me Anak finesses the **** outta Az, to the point where he bent over backwards to defend Anak, only for Anak to completely flub his role claim three times in endgame.
This really should’ve died instead of Azrael. I can’t believe we’re here nearly two phases after he almost died and he STILL doesn’t have a scumread he cares enough to push.
I wanna say there’s 2-3 scum abstaining because I don’t want to believe that many villagers are just sitting there, rotting.
All I can really say is sorry guys, I made some assumptions about my role that I shouldn't have. After the last confirming with GF I just basically have lost anything I had for this game, because I know I should be the yeet today and I know what's gonna happen.
Like there's nothing I can really say or do that's going to change that, and then people going through me being a wet noodle at the same time as I realizing that I ****ed up with how I thought my role worked just sucked all the fun out of the game. If its any consolation its likely the last game I play for a long while, so you all won't have to worry about me like this again.
@Sloth Delivered on a silver platter a bad town I guess. The question I would pose to you is, what about that contradiction comes from scum? I can't really deny any of the facts you laid out, but try to show the mindset there isn't scum.
You know I have a lot of vitality, since Wisp didn't kill me last night, I hope that's not up for debate. So we all know that part is at least true. Is it just that you think my role is actually a scum vitality giver? Bit odd because why wouldn't I target a scumbuddy and power them up.
Do you think I wasn't giving Az vitality? I could actually confirm this tonight, I lied about one other small thing. I actually have 2 vitality left not 1, I actually started with 6. I faked that in case a singe-vit ability was sent my way, and there wasn't really a downside to doing so.
All this to say, I could target you Sloth (or anyone the town chooses), and tonight you would get a vitality from me and I wouldn't actually die tonight, barring Wisp of course. "But Anak we don't have time, its MyLo/LyLo probably, all scum need is 1 night" yeah I know, but its really all I can do.
Sorry for costing us all the game most likely, it was a hard one but I definitely didn't help that.
ya outside worlds where you maliciously brought the mod into the game, you pretty much semi-spewed the existence of your ability, or you playing dirty
the problem is that, that doesn't really make you town?
I really hated your vote on Cuth, like there really isn't a justifiable reason for voting like that in what is possibly mylo
its pretty much I vote in Tubba or you, hoping one is a wolf, or throw the game for myself, cause I'm never hitting Highroller, and I kinda forgot who else has wit, that is in the wolf PoE.
There is also no arguable reason why you should be giving up here if you realistically think you would throwing the game for town
But I didn't wanna be like "This guilt is not worthy of throwing the game for his team" cuz that would be rude.
I'm not sure why Bessie thinks she caught Cuth with something or needs coaching on the possible 4 mafia thing. We've already discussed possibilities, and considering this site uses three mafia members for a 12 person game, having four with a neutral seems a reasonable assumption to make. I need to shore up my read on Cuth, but don't really think that's a gotcha moment.
I am so confused by this though because in 3240, you say that you can wit someone else and that would start draining your vitality, but in 3245 you said that you just confirmed with Grapefruit that you can't wit another person, but another person can wit you and you would give them vitality, which you thought would kill you. But now you're saying that you can target someone to give them vitality through wit.
(And, Iso targeted Azrael not you, so the why would I question is hard to answer. The simple answer for why Iso would target town if scum is to look town.)
What I get for trying to find ways to prove myself I guess.
If Grapefruit were to come in and say, "Because reasons, no one can vote LastWhisper today, vote someone else," I'd be fine with voting Anak. I definitely didn't think he was town going into today, and today certainly hasn't helped him any in my eyes. I continue to believe LastWhisper is the best vote, however.
For those who don't think Wisp is mafia: please explain why the mafia has been protecting him this entire time.
LastWhisper: It's probably way too late for this, but we need to talk about your posting habits, man.
The game is 77 pages long. You've made over 800 posts. Meaning you have made over 16 pages worth of posts. That's over a fifth of the posts, despite it being an 18-player game. For context, you've made 339 posts more than Vaimes, who is the second highest poster. Meaning if we were to make nearly 7 pages worth of only your posts disappear (out of 77 pages total), you would still have the most posts this game.
Would you mind toning it down, please? It's difficult enough to reread the thread. You're en route to making it nigh-unfeasible.
Did we ever establish what this was?
And yet here we are on day 4...
It's just very clear there are people who are totally against ever lynching Wisp at all. Where this willingness to dive on a grenade to protect Wisp comes from is beyond me.
In fact, open question to those who are against killing Wisp today: so when are we going to kill him, then, if not today?
Of course it is.
We know there are at least 4 threats to the town in this game, given the starting player size of 18 people. Given that we had 18 and not 16, it's possible we have 5.
Meaning we either have 5 mafia, 4 mafia and neutral LastWhisper, or 4 mafia. We should assume for 5 hostiles when making our plan for today.
If we have 7 towns to 5 mafia, if we mislynch and the mafia kills a town, they win.
If we have 7 towns, 4 mafia, and neutral LastWhisper, if we mislynch, the mafia kills someone, and LastWhisper kills someone, we lose.
So yeah, it's LyLo. We should behave accordingly.
since I am not Wisp, I am just Kamikaze 2.0 to you
that's the only thing that really annoys me
but it's not true lylo
So if you actually believe 5 mafia then our best chance is to hit mafia today, not take out the neural.
I might have ****ed up end game math, but I don’t think we have 5 mafia. And if we do have 5 mafia then scum almost definitely have to have at least one witted.
You're either mafia or, best case scenario/only-other-possible case scenario, you're the other type of threat to the town we need to kill in order to win and to prevent more towns from dying.
Why risk it? Why keep you alive?
Because of all the mafia you could kill? You haven't killed any mafia. In fact, you haven't killed anybody. Even if we assume you've been telling the truth about your role and actually were to believe in its utility, you've still managed to kill no one with it, and we're now at the point where it would be a major liability for you to do so.
What other reason do we have to keep you around?
It wouldn't be 5 mafia and a neutral, that'd be 6 threats to the town. That'd be absolute madness.
If there’s 4 mafia, and we yet a witted, wisp leaves and puts us at 4-5 tomorrow if we misyeet unless cuth shoots and is successful and mishoots we lose.
If we hit a witted mafia, wisp leaves, they hit town tonight and cuth mishoots successfully, we’ll be at 3-5 which still gives us a chance.
I think, but I think it’s best to hit mafia today.
Cuthalion has been on my short list of players I would vote for since D2.
My final D2 post:
And, ummm, and the one question Cuthalion won’t answer is “why did you vote for me?”, not something like “what did you have for dinner last night?” Or did I somehow misunderstand and you do RVS at the start of every game day on this forum? [/sarcasm]
Pings which I pointed out in my posts:
#1524 : odd start of D2 post and preemptive excuse for not reading Tammy and Vaimes.
#2350 : Suspicion that he was pushing to yet BoomFrog D2 even though he wasn’t necessarily scum reading BoomFrog, so that he could get his bonus.
#2507 : Posting reads without giving reasons.
#3273 Voting for me for a vague unexplained reason.
Posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 : Won’t respond to my requests to explain his vote.
#3674 One of his issues with me is that I’m suspicious of him, and he’s so obvitown. [/sarcasm].
More stuff already pointed out on this page: Refusal to give a read on me and justify his vote, and is leaning on Wisp and Vaimes to do it for him.
Really? You guys aren’t very creative.
You are misrepresenting what I am asking and I think you know it. I am not arguing your points against me because you haven’t given any.
Another post with my reads to follow.
A. 5 mafia (Wisp is one of them)
B. 4 mafia, 1 neutral (Wisp)
C. 4 mafia (Wisp is one of them)
Scenarios such as 3 mafia and 1 neutral, or 5 mafia and 1 neutral should be dismissed. The former because that would be Grape utterly screwing the mafia over, and the latter because that would be Grape utterly screwing the town over.
Except here's the problem what what you're saying:
LastWhisper offers no possibility of error. Killing LastWhisper gives us a 0% chance of killing a town and a 100% chance of killing a threat to the town. In LyLo.
Whereas every one of your scenarios includes the word IF. There is a greater probability of error versus 0% probability of error.
Let me put it another way, you ever play a shell game? Or a game of three-card monte? You know, the games where there's three choices and if you get the correct card or find which shell the thing is under, you win? Well, in case anyone doesn't know how those games work, it's a con. The trick is that the dealer uses sleight of hand. The correct card is switched with a different card without you noticing, so none of the three cards presented before you is the correct one; or, in the case of the shell game, the coin or whatever is removed, so none of the three shells have the coin under it.
The reason why is simple: why would anyone ever give you a 33.3% chance of winning when they can give you a 0% chance of winning?
So. I ask you: why present the mafia with any probability of winning before we can get to day 5 when we can just get to day 5 with a 0% chance of failure?
So, this is the post where Iso basically hints twice that he witted Azrael, but why does he choose a person who hadn't even posted yet to start giving vitality to?
I feel fixated right now because none of this makes sense. It doesn't make sense to me that Iso would choose someone who hadn't even posted yet to wit and give vitality to when that role could be used to give a pr more vitality. And then the contradictions are more concerning.
But is it scum?
Everything says yes to me, but I'm even less confident in this than I normally am.
I’ve been trying to do a real reads list but I there has just been too much content and I never was even able to get back to the last half of D1. On my home site most complete games were around 20 pages or so, and I am usually behind even in small games. I don’t have any references from my home site easily available (but will try to find something if requested). Or there are some places where I was talking about my time constraints and problems with content overload in the games I linked earlier.
https://smashboards.com/threads/flavorless-mafia-iii-game-over-who-won.501573/
Here’s my reads without doing a thread reread, I skimmed through D4 content as I wrote this.
Anak – I thought he was scummy yesterday and I ended the day with one of my votes on him. I still find him suspicious for his D4 content and would vote for him today.
BoomFrog – I have never been that good at reading BoomFrog but I haven’t had any major scum pings from him. The only ping I have is the odd comment he made in post #3602 about my push on Azrael. Like I said I wasn’t the only player pushing Azrael so I am suspicious as to why he pointed out why that was a negative for me in particular.
Bur – The thing that I previously found most suspicious about Bur was that he voted without giving reasons. I skilled him because I had a free skill, and he did explain some reads more in chat than he was doing in the thread. I still do not have a strong town lean but I am against voting for him today.
Cuthalion – He has been one of my scum reads since D2. He is voting for me without giving a reason that he can explain which I find suspicious. For more of my thoughts see my D4 posts.
Highroller – I can understand his content and his focus on Wisp.
Killjoy – I think he has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Slothful – Another player that I think has produced consistently good content and I like his posting style.
Tammy – I was suspicious of her early game content for what seemed to me to be not taking strong positions on anything, like everything she posted had a disclaimer. Her playstyle is the type that I often clash with so that may be part of my early suspicion on her. I’m still not seeing why Tammy was obvitown early in the game but I think I was more suspicious of some players that I felt were too quick to defend Tammy without trying to understand what a player that had no prior experience with her found suspicious.
Tubba – I think I will stand by what I said previously, I don’t see the scum reads on Tubba. Maybe it is because his playstyle is more like mine, unlike someone like Tammy who’s playstyle is very different from mine.
Vaimes – I have been suspicious of Vaimes since D2, I often don’t follow his reads. Like, he started D4 voting for Cuth, but says it was just to provoke him to post. There was also this comment in post #3652: “I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart.” Like he is trying to force this read.
Wisp – Self-claimed non-town.
Ending with content through page 76. I’ll pick up on page 77 later.
Also, this has been confusing me for a while, but I don’t see every post every time I load the page. Like, in one tab I have open, the first post on page 77 is #3802, but if I open page 77 in another tab I can’t see this post and the first post is #3803. This has happened other times too where I can’t see a particular post that I remember being at the top of a page. Is this an issue for anyone else?
but like, its annoying when you say its possible its lylo, and then argue I am the best yeet, and its because you live in this fantasy that I am a wolf, that I have tried to move you out of, but you have locked me as Kamikaze 2.0
and the problem here, is that you aren't helping find mafia
anyways I really don't want to devolve into one I did before again, so like if it makes you happy? yeet me? but if you lose this game day 5, or this game ends going into day 5, I will be angry that you never gave me a chance, and pretty much stopped hunting
I'd stil love that reads list.
Aslo I'd like your top 3 town in some detail please.
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20210125T09&p0=152&font=cursive
Or middle of the road/kinda townie? And has he maintained that level for 800 posts?
Honestly right now if he hadn't claimed a neutral, I'd be townreading him because I've likes some of his posts and he's maintained a level of not-scumminess for a lot of posts. I've seen this Wisp before. I even ISO'd 1300 posts to prove him scum (where he wasn't).
So, show me a hidden scum agenda that isn't obvious somewhere in his head. Else he's probably not mafia.
We're likely lynch in Tubba or Anak today probably, and if we decide otherwise, he can shoot Anak and leave. If these things happen and he doesn't leave, I'll evaluate this slot in that context then.
I mean, obviously that's preferrable.
But the only way I see that happening is if we're 100% sure on who the target should be, and even in that case, why wouldn't we just wait to yeet them the next Day? Sure the game would be dragged out for one more Day where otherwise it might have been over overNight, but why is that a problem?
(OoG: not trying to dismiss your emotions, Anak, which I believe are real regardless of your alignment. It's just a game at the end of the day )
I talked about the scum mindset in the contradiction and your behavior on #3756.
I mean, I really wouldn't speculate to how much vit scum has but it does seem ~presumable that at least one or two of them would have a fair amount of it.
...how could you forget that you just said, not too long ago, that you can't target other people with your ability?
(Again, I don't mean to sound hurtful and I hope it's not coming across that way, I'm just scumhunting and you really do seem scum, buddy.)
Lol @ you asking Wisp to top contributing to the game. Didn't you lament that he wasn't town yesterDay cause his contributions were good?
We don't need to reread a player we already know is not town.
We don't need to prove he's scum because the results of toDay will prove it one way or another.
Well if we yeet in the witted and Wisp is still around, toMorrow. Like at that point, there's no way around it.
We've also talked about why others yeets are options to look into as well. What do you disagree with about that?
-Do you disagree that if we yeet witted and Wisp is still around, it's undeniable evidence that he's scum?
If the answer to both questions is "no", what's the problem here?
P.S. ngl, from now on, I will only refer to MLs as "Musky Choices"
We were looking for an alternative that didn't use the word "lynch" after all.
#muskychoice4life
re: HighRoller: Do you understand his lack of non-wisp content?
Can you talk more about what you like about Killjoy an I's posting style? You described us in identical terms and I want to hear...more.
Anak (2): Sloth, Wisp
Wisp (2): Bessie, HR
Cuthalion (1): Vaimes
Bessie (1): Cuth
Not Voting (6): Tubba, Anak, Bur, BoomFrog, KJ, Tammy
With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to reach majority.
The day ends Monday the 25th at 0900 AEDT. Timer
Meant to do this earlier but didn't have my phone.
I could forget because I was playing pretty much entirely on emotion there and not logic when posting that. Also just having it wrong for so long I just defaulted back to that. Obviously not great lol
Yeah I agree that its likely 1 of the scum has a good chunk of vitality that could tank that hit from Wisp, what I'm pointing out is that for your logic to work I basically have to be exactly that role, while also having The Wit. It's a pretty precise set of circumstances that you are trying to fit my role into, while it makes a lot more sense to be town.
Also if you think there are things that town players don't say at a point in the game, then by golly you haven't read many games I am in. I usually find the wrong things to say at the wrong times, probably the thing that I am the best at
You don't sound hurtful, and I can see that you are just genuinely scum hunting. Again looking objectively, I would be voting for me because realistically you can't really let someone live that's contradicted themselves about their role like I did. So playing bad like that made me super frustrated, then others talked about me basically always being a wet noodle as that happened just kind of coalesced together and made the game a ball of frustration that I was just better off ignoring for a while.
@Wisp I hope you don't really think I played or tried anything dirty, I may be bad but I (don't think) I have ever done anything untowards. The mistakes this game were all mine, not the mods in any way.
Now, all that aside, time to try and convince you all not to yeet me today. Simple enough right?
@KJ Sorry needed to get a chance back at the computer to type up a reads-list, I knew you were looking for it but trying on mobile wasn't gonna end well.
Tammy - Lock Town, if shes scum then happy to lose to her, nothing about what she has said or done or how she has said anything has felt scummy at all.
KJ - Pretty confident town, asks good questions, mindset is consistent. Pokes at people in meaningful ways that is actually trying to gather information, and not just for show.
Vaimes - Lean townish? Fine enough I guess, hasn't done a ton as the game has progressed, some decent scumhunting at times but not as much as others. Possible deep wolf, but not at the point where ever consider voting him.
Sloth - Lean Town, didn't get a ton early game but the last couple days has really done some solid scumhunting. Don't see the mindset coming from scum, also probably lose if scum since just never see myself wanting to yeet them.
HR - Scum, sorry I just don't buy it, and I know what other's have said about meta and all that. I really think most people's PoE's are so weird because they aren't including HR, and I would challenge you to do so. This game isn't easy, the PoE isn't gonna be the easy candidates either at this point.
Tubba - Lean scum, when asked for a PoE just tosses out Cuth and I and then doesn't really know from there. Reads to me more that they didn't know who to pick, so started with the 2 easiest targets and just kind of made the rest up. D2 is still pretty suspect as well. Also their role of passing Wits between players seems like a good way to sabotage players (this is admittedly the smallest point against them, but it just feels like a scum ability to me)
Bessie - Neutral and trending down, had townish for a while based on how they came out and went at Tammy, didn't really expect scum to start off that way. Haven't seen much since then though that really did anything for me, and scumread me for reasons that didn't feel super legitimate in regards to Az. Role is an easy one to fake too.
Boom - Slight town, role seems pretty town as much as that can be trusted. I agree with pretty much all their thoughts on Wisp today, so that's inclining me towards towning them as well. Looks to me like they ask a lot of questions that they don't follow up with often, gives them a shallow fake kind of feel.
Wisp - 3rder, any real discussion of being Mafia is asinine. If Wisp is Mafia here then he is far better than I remember him being (and I remember him being a pretty good player).
Cuth - ???, is weird accurate? Think so, and I don't like weird. Crumbing a role is neat and all, harping on that doesn't do much to help themselves. I also feel like I'm forgetting all of their claimed night actions. Person I need to read the most up on tonight, could go either way right now.
Bur - Lean Town, hasn't done a whole lot but also hasn't done anything really wrong either. Few fine questions and pokes, but honestly they might be the one person where the role is enough to put at town for now.
So trying to make a PoE out of that for now would lead me to something like
HR/Tubba/Cuth/Bessie or Boom
That's not really a PoE I love though. Seems too easy at this stage of the game honestly.... hmpf food for thought here, need to look at the wagons after dinner here and see if those people make sense.
(Bonus spicy "We Are Screwed PoE" of something like HR/Vaimes/Bur/Sloth is sitting in the back of my mind, which feels much more like a team that could have led us to this point in the game than the one above.)
Please ask about anything above that anyone wants more details on, not going too in depth at the moment since trying to make sure I can finish this post and get it out without making others wait longer.
And nah, it's only really dirty if you start saying stuff like, "I asked the mod a question, so of course I am real"
Kind of thought the whole "letting threat to town win" thing was a bad idea, but hey, call me provincial.
But that's not realistically going to happen, **** it. I'm bored of trying to herd cats.
Unvote, Vote Anak. At least he's my second choice.
Someone explain how in the **** you interpret letting Wisp win as "eliminating" him, when it sounds a lot like the exact logical opposite of that.
I've been drive-by playing last few days and what I've understood, it boils down to Anak saying his role was confirmed to Az and then later it turns out it wasn't?
Especially @sloth: what makes this scum!Anak lying about this role instead of town!Anak just not understanding properly his role?
You’re telling me Anak finesses the **** outta Az, to the point where he bent over backwards to defend Anak, only for Anak to completely flub his role claim three times in endgame.
It doesn’t sound real.
This really should’ve died instead of Azrael. I can’t believe we’re here nearly two phases after he almost died and he STILL doesn’t have a scumread he cares enough to push.
I wanna say there’s 2-3 scum abstaining because I don’t want to believe that many villagers are just sitting there, rotting.