you both should be holstering your shots btw
but one of you is pretty much an obvious wolf
but for my sanity, I am doing my due diligence
@Sloth
@Cuth
also Sloth, like I understand why I need to die, but I think the PoE is almost obvious, that we should not have to kill me
because again, if yeeting a wolf today, always led to game over, we wouldn't still be in this game
Anyone: Can someone explain this thing with Anak/Az knowing or not knowing the vitality thing? Is it that Anak contridicted himself or is there specific significance to Az not knowing Anak targeted him?
Anak contradicted himself very badly: He was flat-out asked about telling Az his role (not Az being informed mechanically), and confirmed it. Later on, Tammy brought up several posts of Az that showed that he actually did not know where the vit came from, prompting Anak to state that he had assumed that mechanically Az would be informed but now confirmed with Grape that he wasn't - which flies in the face of his earlier statements. I think what happened is that he panicked over Tammy's discovery and just came up with something on the fly, not realizing what he had said earlier.
I also spoke about the significance of Az knowing or outing him, or of Anak outing himself to save Az in #3352.
I was given to understand that a large part of why Az believed Anak to be town had to do with Anak's ability: Because Anak was giving him vit and scum is not likely to be doing that to a town player. This is reasonable and works on the assumption Az was told.
With the claim that he wasn't told, why was Az so sure?
On the flipside, why was Anak so sure Az was town when given a role in no way confirmable as town?
Note that I'm not saying that their roles would be the only way to read each other as town, but there was an assumption that there was something more clearing between the two to carry the strength of the read for one another. Anak is now saying that was not the case.
And again, even if Az didn't know, Anak not ******* trying to save him is just...no.
Sloth: Have you ever seen an arbitrary game mechanic just happen out of nowhere without it being connected to an ingame ability? There would be no info leading us to that conclusion.
Also again, I don't doubt you don't have that ability (or something like it, like maybe you drain a vit or something) but your ability is super boring and could have more to it.
Have I seen this specific mechanic? No.
Have I seen games with gimmicks and themes that would be even weirder than this? Yeah, pretty much. You have too, it's not incredibly unlikely.
The point is, though, the ability is definitely not scummy and if it comes from a town then you need to stop talking about it now, KJ. There are not many reasons why a Town wouldn't have claimed it.
Again, all I can say about the ability thing is
Odd question, but can you talk to me about Vaimes specifically (as in what's your read of him and why?)
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
you both should be holstering your shots btw
but one of you is pretty much an obvious wolf
but for my sanity, I am doing my due diligence
@Sloth
@Cuth
also Sloth, like I understand why I need to die, but I think the PoE is almost obvious, that we should not have to kill me
because again, if yeeting a wolf today, always led to game over, we wouldn't still be in this game
ftr, that long spiel wasn't meant for you.
I'll be in and out for a few hours but I should be reliably around, what should we talk about?
Cuth asked me who I wanted to yeet, presumably so he could set his Day target. Then he said because of the extra vit he was able to fire and asked me for potential names, and that if he died in the Night it was due to vit drain.
shooting wisp is dumb because we have at least two shots and the poe is small and assuming it's a foregone conclusion we don't hit a wolf with either of those is pretty silly and there's a good chance it lets wolves win overnight
if i shoot i have one vit, there's one
vaimes, the thing is just the way multiple people responded to what i said after i said it, something i was hoping you would picking up on but not necessarily expecting
I mean it depends on how confident I am in them, and in the wolf PoE
in regards to this game, anyone that still thinks I am a wolf, is lying to themselves and/or doesn't know me well, aka Highroller
like if we didn't have reason to believe that tubba/anak are pretty much above 90% in likeliness of being mafia, and the PoE wasn't super tight because everyone else is just mechanically or meta-wise better, then ya, kill him if we really are unsure
Cuth asked me who I wanted to yeet, presumably so he could set his Day target. Then he said because of the extra vit he was able to fire and asked me for potential names, and that if he died in the Night it was due to vit drain.
And you told him me? Jerk.
Also you replied to the wrong quote. I think you just liked my gif, well done.
Also also, hm. This either makes scum!Cuth super prepared to the claim he was going to make (which he definitely was, given his many insistences), or it's a good look for town!Cuth.
Leaning towards the latter.
inb4 a vaimes/cuth scumteam. Take me there, Vaimes.
@Sloth
explain to me why that makes him look good, for the people with fewer brain cells?
You mean Cuth?
I would say it comes down just to the idea that as scum, he was planning to make this claim since D1.
His claims on the thread could be anything. Literally anything, I don't care what he says: he could have claimed Doctor, Bus Driver, Redirected, Bulletproof and all of it would fit.
The claim to Vaimes is different as it cages him into one thing, which scum don't often do. And he sold it down to the possibility of a vit drain "maybe killing him." Just that extra attention to detail that I like. Plus he did it on D3 (unless Vaimes corrects this) prior to a massclaim that could have him be CC'd by another more believable player (though how risky a move that is for him, it's for you to decide).
None of this is super locking, as mentioned, it's just a tick on one direction on this one thing.
Although I do already see some potential problems:
Like the claims to Vaimes were just to Vaimes and were fairly late in the game, based on what he said in the thread, I don't see why a theoretical scum RBer would go "oh let's block this guy 3 Nights in a row." Especially with the other flips happening in the game and the "confirmation" of a doctor D3 (that apparently everyone was able to discern their identity?)
You also wondered about Vaimes not dying when he's so town (eh), I suppose if you set him up as your witness for your fakeclaim as scum, naturally you want to keep him around.
That's about it.
I know I keep saying this but I want to ISO cuth, and will try to get around to that tonight.
I was going to ask you who among the non-witted would you want to yeet and in what order, but I think I want instead to hear of your read on Cuth, as yesterday you linked him to anak and tubba, correct?
I would say it comes down just to the idea that as scum, he was planning to make this claim since D1.
[...]
The claim to Vaimes is different as it cages him into one thing, which scum don't often do. And he sold it down to the possibility of a vit drain "maybe killing him." Just that extra attention to detail that I like. Plus he did it on D3 (unless Vaimes corrects this) prior to a massclaim that could have him be CC'd by another more believable player (though how risky a move that is for him, it's for you to decide).
None of this is super locking, as mentioned, it's just a tick on one direction on this one thing.
Although I do already see some potential problems:
Like the claims to Vaimes were just to Vaimes and were fairly late in the game, based on what he said in the thread, I don't see why a theoretical scum RBer would go "oh let's block this guy 3 Nights in a row." Especially with the other flips happening in the game and the "confirmation" of a doctor D3 (that apparently everyone was able to discern their identity?)
You also wondered about Vaimes not dying when he's so town (eh), I suppose if you set him up as your witness for your fakeclaim as scum, naturally you want to keep him around.
These are the things that ruin my sleep cycle.
Also I responded to that quote because I knew you asked a question but did not want to physically click back to the previous page.
For the record, I think I've been shot like. Once, maybe twice, ever. There are only two games I can recall. I almost always endgame [unless I'm mafia lolz].
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
if we don't yeet bessie, i'm almost certainly shooting there; i can come up with literally zero reasons not to
@Cuthalion, I thought today you were going to explain your reason for voting for me. Where is it, I’ve been asking since you voted for me in post #3099 , and this was the only reason I could find, from a few posts earlier:
i think there are at least two in sloth/bessie/tubba just from voting stuffs yesterday
I asked Cuthalion to explain the reason for his vote in more detail, in post #3273 , which he ignored, and I asked him again in posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 . When he finally responded he did not answer the question and gave this reason:
if you want more details than "you're probably a wolf through poe and reads", that should become more clear in about 24 hours
You not only refused to explain his original reason for voting for me, you refused to give any reason, and were going to delay for 24 hours, which was when you were scheduled to talk things through with Wisp. When pushed by me on this, you responded with
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
there are two answers to this question
number one: you're probably a wolf through poe and reads
number two: there's more resistance to a sloth (and to a lesser degree a tubba) yeet
my posting tomorrow will probably not change any of the reasonings behind the first answer, it will just set them out in a clearer way from which we can have conversations about the validity of my thought processes and where it's actually laid out in more depth for all to see
the actual reasons are pretty clear i think from what i've said (at least insofar as "these are my reads and this is a natural conclusion from those"), but i don't expect anyone else to be on board without understanding why i think the things i think
No your reasons aren’t clear, which is why I’ve asked you to explain them; and I’ve noted that you are already making an excuse for people not understanding your reasons which you won’t present anyway.
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
@Cuthalion by the way you still haven’t answered this:
Why did Cuth say something super mysterious and then disappear.
Vaimes, maybe because Cuthalion wants you to pick apart my posts and find a reason for him to keep his vote on me. He fished again for you to do it here:
because we have wisp, who's basically somewhere in between a survivor and a sk, and no other neutrals make sense in this setup, and 3 wolves is criminally underpowered and five would be criminally overpowered
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
if we don't yeet bessie, i'm almost certainly shooting there; i can come up with literally zero reasons not to
i have some hesitations on you
Let's start there: What are the hesitations?
What's changed between toDay and D3? If on D3 you were willing to kill me off, you must have been pretty certain, correct?
I would say it comes down just to the idea that as scum, he was planning to make this claim since D1.
[...]
The claim to Vaimes is different as it cages him into one thing, which scum don't often do. And he sold it down to the possibility of a vit drain "maybe killing him." Just that extra attention to detail that I like. Plus he did it on D3 (unless Vaimes corrects this) prior to a massclaim that could have him be CC'd by another more believable player (though how risky a move that is for him, it's for you to decide).
None of this is super locking, as mentioned, it's just a tick on one direction on this one thing.
Although I do already see some potential problems:
Like the claims to Vaimes were just to Vaimes and were fairly late in the game, based on what he said in the thread, I don't see why a theoretical scum RBer would go "oh let's block this guy 3 Nights in a row." Especially with the other flips happening in the game and the "confirmation" of a doctor D3 (that apparently everyone was able to discern their identity?)
You also wondered about Vaimes not dying when he's so town (eh), I suppose if you set him up as your witness for your fakeclaim as scum, naturally you want to keep him around.
These are the things that ruin my sleep cycle.
Also I responded to that quote because I knew you asked a question but did not want to physically click back to the previous page.
It's cool if you're too shy to admit my gif game is the best.
@bessie I'm not even saying you're wrong on Cuth or aren't making valid points re: how he's approaching you, but what does this boil down to? He hasn't answered this one question, therefore he's scum? (Or is he scum to you, have you actually said that? You're voting Wisp from what I saw previous page).
Like, do you have anything more to say on Cuth and what is your read on him ultimately?
Beyond that, do you have other reads? Who's in your bottom 3? or top 3? (if you've gone over them in a recent post, just point me to it)
because we have wisp, who's basically somewhere in between a survivor and a sk, and no other neutrals make sense in this setup, and 3 wolves is criminally underpowered and five would be criminally overpowered
because we have wisp, who's basically somewhere in between a survivor and a sk, and no other neutrals make sense in this setup, and 3 wolves is criminally underpowered and five would be criminally overpowered
This is speculation. You said "and we know we have four wolves alive". How do you know we have four wolves alive?
And why am I scum? Explain your original reason for voting for me, without Wisp's or Vaimes's coaching.
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
We can also find better reasons to like or dislike Cuth here
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
because we have wisp, who's basically somewhere in between a survivor and a sk, and no other neutrals make sense in this setup, and 3 wolves is criminally underpowered and five would be criminally overpowered
This is speculation. You said "and we know we have four wolves alive". How do you know we have four wolves alive?
And why am I scum? Explain your original reason for voting for me, without Wisp's or Vaimes's coaching.
if anyone's coaching anyone here it's me trying to get them to come to my conclusions lol
draw whatever conclusions you want to about my playstyle but so it goes
i'm not going to spend time arguing with you about why you're not a wolf, but i will explain to the rest of the thread why i think you are at some later point (probably when people are itt and ready to discuss things in depth and i'm not a zombie)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
Fair enough. I'm honestly not quite sure what she's doing harping on this. Sort of waiting for her to answer my questions, kind of annoyed she didn't before leaving.
Speaking of, can you addres p#3778?
(P.S. in regards to p#3785, doesn't that acknowledge the unlikelihood of an RB role we haven't noticed up till now?)
But we should be treating this like mylo, and trying to find a wolf, and not defaulting to me
I'm not trying to speak for KJ (he can correct me) but given that he said I was the one to make him realize we are likely in MyLo, I'm assuming he was talking about P#3749, where I point out that the only surefire way to avoid a loss is by safely yeeting you out. Or at least getting you out by yeeting a witted.
This is why I was championing your yeet to begin with. Anak's an acceptable switch because he outted himself and he's witted. If not for that, I'd still just yeet you for safety, I think?
@ALL Speaking of Anak, can I get more votes on him? I'm not saying we should be ending the Day now, but I'm honestly disconcerted that I have literally delivered him to you all in silver platter yet the only one that has followed me on him is the 3rder to whom Anak's flip is irrelevant to victory.
If you are not voting him, I would at least like to hear why? Seriously.
So u think the game is over even if we yeet a wolf? Else I have no idea what you are saying? Safe just = lazy here
Super not what I said, now or ever.
I said you're the only "surefire way", meaning you're the only guaranteed yeet in MyLo that has no chance of ending in a Town loss. You agree on this right? I assumed you did given all your "I understand why I need to die" posts?
Also, let's not get distracted, because this is definitely irrelevant right now: I'm not voting for you. Just want to focus on people answering my questions.
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
@Vaimes: Talk to me about how Sloth is "chill", because this post is pregnant with bias.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Anyone: Can someone explain this thing with Anak/Az knowing or not knowing the vitality thing? Is it that Anak contridicted himself or is there specific significance to Az not knowing Anak targeted him?
Anak contradicted himself very badly: He was flat-out asked about telling Az his role (not Az being informed mechanically), and confirmed it. Later on, Tammy brought up several posts of Az that showed that he actually did not know where the vit came from, prompting Anak to state that he had assumed that mechanically Az would be informed but now confirmed with Grape that he wasn't - which flies in the face of his earlier statements. I think what happened is that he panicked over Tammy's discovery and just came up with something on the fly, not realizing what he had said earlier.
I also spoke about the significance of Az knowing or outing him, or of Anak outing himself to save Az in #3352.
I was given to understand that a large part of why Az believed Anak to be town had to do with Anak's ability: Because Anak was giving him vit and scum is not likely to be doing that to a town player. This is reasonable and works on the assumption Az was told.
With the claim that he wasn't told, why was Az so sure?
On the flipside, why was Anak so sure Az was town when given a role in no way confirmable as town?
Note that I'm not saying that their roles would be the only way to read each other as town, but there was an assumption that there was something more clearing between the two to carry the strength of the read for one another. Anak is now saying that was not the case.
And again, even if Az didn't know, Anak not ******* trying to save him is just...no.
Hm. Ok. Thanks for going into so much detail about the origins of this, because I was going to go check to see if it's possible that it was either A) a misunderstanding or B) unprovable that Az didn't know that Anak targeted him, the latter being relevant because why would he contradict himself if no one could prove that he's lying. Anak is a good yeet for today.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
What the hell. Did you even assimilate what I said? Why are you so desperate to have Wisp take a shot toNight? Why is it worth the risk? We should be playing carefully right now not just shoot all over the place.
Also I thought this went without saying, but this also means you should be ******* holstering your shot too.
Did you seriously just meant you when you were talking about the 1vit?
Address the rest of my post.
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
In most of the scenarios I just described, a single additional town death probably means we lose no matter what.
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
Hm. If Cuth agrees to follow town orders with his shot, would you be ok with him shooting? That's the only way I can see his shooting toNight.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Bessie: Can you answer my (and now sloth's) plea for your top 3 (bottom 3 accomplishes the same I think, sure) reads? In some amount of detail if you please.
@Sloth: I recall reading that you asked me about Vaimes. He's kind of in the "I think he's town but..." where the but is some weird stances I've seen him take this game. Like claiming you're clear for not killing Tammy, which I do not see as logically true. Getting the towniest player to vouch for you is a good way to deep wolf, and you're more than capable of that. I do feel like if Vaimes was scum independent of Tammy, he would have killed her (unless he's also scum with you, for the reason I just said), so he's probably only ever scum with you or Tammy, and I don't think Tammy is scum, and now I don't really think you are either (I'm a fan of your p76 posts to Cuth).
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
and that's killing a wolf today that's not witted, and me killing a witted wolf in the night
also I keep answering posts without quoting the person, that's probably where your confusion lies
but one of you is pretty much an obvious wolf
but for my sanity, I am doing my due diligence
@Sloth
@Cuth
also Sloth, like I understand why I need to die, but I think the PoE is almost obvious, that we should not have to kill me
because again, if yeeting a wolf today, always led to game over, we wouldn't still be in this game
I also spoke about the significance of Az knowing or outing him, or of Anak outing himself to save Az in #3352.
I was given to understand that a large part of why Az believed Anak to be town had to do with Anak's ability: Because Anak was giving him vit and scum is not likely to be doing that to a town player. This is reasonable and works on the assumption Az was told.
With the claim that he wasn't told, why was Az so sure?
On the flipside, why was Anak so sure Az was town when given a role in no way confirmable as town?
Note that I'm not saying that their roles would be the only way to read each other as town, but there was an assumption that there was something more clearing between the two to carry the strength of the read for one another. Anak is now saying that was not the case.
And again, even if Az didn't know, Anak not ******* trying to save him is just...no.
Have I seen this specific mechanic? No.
Have I seen games with gimmicks and themes that would be even weirder than this? Yeah, pretty much. You have too, it's not incredibly unlikely.
The point is, though, the ability is definitely not scummy and if it comes from a town then you need to stop talking about it now, KJ. There are not many reasons why a Town wouldn't have claimed it.
Again, all I can say about the ability thing is
Odd question, but can you talk to me about Vaimes specifically (as in what's your read of him and why?)
because there are more villagers alive compared to wolves right now than there ever will be
and wolves get to pick who to keep alive
that's why
let's assume you are real, in what world do you not get roleblocked again, given you said it stopped your previous shot?
And given that your claim is that you tried to shoot me, I am not filled with confidence in your aim.
This game is solved with analysis and yeets, not trigger-happy Night PRs.
@Wisp if any other player was in your position, would you be comfortable leaving the game in their hands?
I'll be in and out for a few hours but I should be reliably around, what should we talk about?
in regards to this game, anyone that still thinks I am a wolf, is lying to themselves and/or doesn't know me well, aka Highroller
like if we didn't have reason to believe that tubba/anak are pretty much above 90% in likeliness of being mafia, and the PoE wasn't super tight because everyone else is just mechanically or meta-wise better, then ya, kill him if we really are unsure
Also you replied to the wrong quote. I think you just liked my gif, well done.
Also also, hm. This either makes scum!Cuth super prepared to the claim he was going to make (which he definitely was, given his many insistences), or it's a good look for town!Cuth.
Leaning towards the latter.
inb4 a vaimes/cuth scumteam. Take me there, Vaimes.
@Sloth
explain to me why that makes him look good, for the people with fewer brain cells?
I would say it comes down just to the idea that as scum, he was planning to make this claim since D1.
His claims on the thread could be anything. Literally anything, I don't care what he says: he could have claimed Doctor, Bus Driver, Redirected, Bulletproof and all of it would fit.
The claim to Vaimes is different as it cages him into one thing, which scum don't often do. And he sold it down to the possibility of a vit drain "maybe killing him." Just that extra attention to detail that I like. Plus he did it on D3 (unless Vaimes corrects this) prior to a massclaim that could have him be CC'd by another more believable player (though how risky a move that is for him, it's for you to decide).
None of this is super locking, as mentioned, it's just a tick on one direction on this one thing.
Although I do already see some potential problems:
Like the claims to Vaimes were just to Vaimes and were fairly late in the game, based on what he said in the thread, I don't see why a theoretical scum RBer would go "oh let's block this guy 3 Nights in a row." Especially with the other flips happening in the game and the "confirmation" of a doctor D3 (that apparently everyone was able to discern their identity?)
You also wondered about Vaimes not dying when he's so town (eh), I suppose if you set him up as your witness for your fakeclaim as scum, naturally you want to keep him around.
That's about it.
I know I keep saying this but I want to ISO cuth, and will try to get around to that tonight.
I was going to ask you who among the non-witted would you want to yeet and in what order, but I think I want instead to hear of your read on Cuth, as yesterday you linked him to anak and tubba, correct?
Also I responded to that quote because I knew you asked a question but did not want to physically click back to the previous page.
but assuming we don't kill that role i definitely wouldn't be able to get a shot off the night afterwards, so i might as well give it a go
if we don't yeet bessie, i'm almost certainly shooting there; i can come up with literally zero reasons not to
i have some hesitations on you
did you give us your gun to the head 4 person PoE yet?
I asked Cuthalion to explain the reason for his vote in more detail, in post #3273 , which he ignored, and I asked him again in posts #3421 , #3540 , and #3581 . When he finally responded he did not answer the question and gave this reason:
You not only refused to explain his original reason for voting for me, you refused to give any reason, and were going to delay for 24 hours, which was when you were scheduled to talk things through with Wisp. When pushed by me on this, you responded with
No your reasons aren’t clear, which is why I’ve asked you to explain them; and I’ve noted that you are already making an excuse for people not understanding your reasons which you won’t present anyway.
I pointed this out in #3674:
@Cuthalion by the way you still haven’t answered this:
Though I know you saw it, and you read it, because you responded with this:
Vaimes, maybe because Cuthalion wants you to pick apart my posts and find a reason for him to keep his vote on me. He fished again for you to do it here:
Aaaannnnddd, Cuthalion still hasn’t given a reason for voting me??
What's changed between toDay and D3? If on D3 you were willing to kill me off, you must have been pretty certain, correct?
Same question re:Bessie.
everyone is scum but you vaimesLike, do you have anything more to say on Cuth and what is your read on him ultimately?
Beyond that, do you have other reads? Who's in your bottom 3? or top 3? (if you've gone over them in a recent post, just point me to it)
This is in response to what, exactly?
~Ain't no party like a mafia party, cause a mafia party don't stop after Prohibition Era is abolished~
This is speculation. You said "and we know we have four wolves alive". How do you know we have four wolves alive?
And why am I scum? Explain your original reason for voting for me, without Wisp's or Vaimes's coaching.
Because one nobody here outside highroller thinks I am mafia, and you are not going to see wolves get low balled when you have a neutral that can possibly kill them, and 5 would mean this game is already over
We can also find better reasons to like or dislike Cuth here
bessie trying to roast me over the coals for verbalizing the assumption that there are four wolves, which i think is pretty obvious at this point short of some really unusual game design choices
draw whatever conclusions you want to about my playstyle but so it goes
i'm not going to spend time arguing with you about why you're not a wolf, but i will explain to the rest of the thread why i think you are at some later point (probably when people are itt and ready to discuss things in depth and i'm not a zombie)
Speaking of, can you addres p#3778?
(P.S. in regards to p#3785, doesn't that acknowledge the unlikelihood of an RB role we haven't noticed up till now?)
This is why I was championing your yeet to begin with. Anak's an acceptable switch because he outted himself and he's witted. If not for that, I'd still just yeet you for safety, I think?
@ALL Speaking of Anak, can I get more votes on him? I'm not saying we should be ending the Day now, but I'm honestly disconcerted that I have literally delivered him to you all in silver platter yet the only one that has followed me on him is the 3rder to whom Anak's flip is irrelevant to victory.
If you are not voting him, I would at least like to hear why? Seriously.
Also where is Anak anyway?
I said you're the only "surefire way", meaning you're the only guaranteed yeet in MyLo that has no chance of ending in a Town loss. You agree on this right? I assumed you did given all your "I understand why I need to die" posts?
Also, let's not get distracted, because this is definitely irrelevant right now: I'm not voting for you. Just want to focus on people answering my questions.
@Sloth: I recall reading that you asked me about Vaimes. He's kind of in the "I think he's town but..." where the but is some weird stances I've seen him take this game. Like claiming you're clear for not killing Tammy, which I do not see as logically true. Getting the towniest player to vouch for you is a good way to deep wolf, and you're more than capable of that. I do feel like if Vaimes was scum independent of Tammy, he would have killed her (unless he's also scum with you, for the reason I just said), so he's probably only ever scum with you or Tammy, and I don't think Tammy is scum, and now I don't really think you are either (I'm a fan of your p76 posts to Cuth).