@Everyone voting Azreal, I think Azreal coming in a shaking up the thread when I was on the chopping block is extremely townie. Obviously that doesn't apply if you think we are scummates, but if that's the case you should yeet me first (or ask Wisp to kill me and judge Azreal toMarrow with better information).
Randomly dislike this. I say 'randomly' because I came across it while reading Sloth's posts.
Bolded just doesn't sound like a real sentiment.
-
This'll be my last post for the night, though I'll be around a bit longer. Don't want too many posts in a row.
Hmm...I guess why not consider that he could be scum grabbing cred? But also, is that a real thought he has? And does a potential bodyguard offer himself up like that?
@AnakTalk to me about Tubba and why he goes so hard on Wisp as scum.
KJ’s #2415 to Anak reads weird; of course there are reasons for scum!Tubba to go hard on Wisp. Of course, there are reasons if he’s town too. Tubba’s a Witter – that alone is the only reason needed.
That’s not what reads as weird though, the weird part is assuming a world where this is a hard question to answer in a scum!Tubba world, it doesn’t wipe away aspects of Tubba’s behavior that have been brought in the past completely unrelated to wisp. KJ’s acting like the answer to this question means Tubba has to be town for no reason?
I interpreted your question to Anak as a back-handed scold of "it's inconceivable that scum!Tubba would be this aggressive towards Wisp for any reason, so drop that idea, Tubba must be town."
(This is, in fairness, an exaggerated interpretation I'm using to illustrate my point.)
I'm also pointing out that if so, you're pushing a false premise: As town or scum, Tubba obviously has motivation to push Wisp given that he's a Witter. This one reason is obvious but you act as if you hadn't thought of it.
The other part is that let's say that there wasn't an obvious or even discernable reason for scum!Tubba to push on Wisp, meaning that for all intents and purposes, that push is more likely to come from Town. Does Tubba have no other behavior that could come from scum? He does.
The question to Anak above is worded as if by discrediting the idea that scum!tubba would press wisp it means anything for Tubba's alignment - and given that you were/are willing to vote Tubba, its' even more weird than it was originally.
Hmm...I guess why not consider that he could be scum grabbing cred? But also, is that a real thought he has? And does a potential bodyguard offer himself up like that?
lol what? It's t-minus twenty four hours to Night. Are you not the one constantly complaining that we don't need to use the full two weeks? And Azrael is/was your top scumread?
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
lol what? It's t-minus twenty four hours to Night. Are you not the one constantly complaining that we don't need to use the full two weeks? And Azrael is/was your top scumread?
I want to make sure we get two yeets, how is that not clear by now?
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
As someone who has mused more than once this day about there being possible scum in the witted and having just talked about needing to get wisp out today yes I would like to work on the witted issue and help wisp resolve today.
Maybe I'm exasperating to read because you don't read my posts
I don't really think we should risk eliminating two slots with an extra kill floating around. If we had several good candidates, sure, but I don't like the Bur/HR/Cuth poe.
@AnakTalk to me about Tubba and why he goes so hard on Wisp as scum.
KJ’s #2415 to Anak reads weird; of course there are reasons for scum!Tubba to go hard on Wisp. Of course, there are reasons if he’s town too. Tubba’s a Witter – that alone is the only reason needed.
That’s not what reads as weird though, the weird part is assuming a world where this is a hard question to answer in a scum!Tubba world, it doesn’t wipe away aspects of Tubba’s behavior that have been brought in the past completely unrelated to wisp. KJ’s acting like the answer to this question means Tubba has to be town for no reason?
I interpreted your question to Anak as a back-handed scold of "it's inconceivable that scum!Tubba would be this aggressive towards Wisp for any reason, so drop that idea, Tubba must be town."
(This is, in fairness, an exaggerated interpretation I'm using to illustrate my point.)
I'm also pointing out that if so, you're pushing a false premise: As town or scum, Tubba obviously has motivation to push Wisp given that he's a Witter. This one reason is obvious but you act as if you hadn't thought of it.
The other part is that let's say that there wasn't an obvious or even discernable reason for scum!Tubba to push on Wisp, meaning that for all intents and purposes, that push is more likely to come from Town. Does Tubba have no other behavior that could come from scum? He does.
The question to Anak above is worded as if by discrediting the idea that scum!tubba would press wisp it means anything for Tubba's alignment - and given that you were/are willing to vote Tubba, its' even more weird than it was originally.
Ok so what did I get wrong here?
Yeah no it wasn't obvious to me, so I was asking why Tubba would do that. Scum don't typically go so hard on Neutrals.
I'm not sure if you're massively overthinking here. Yes, Tubba has a motive to go for Wisp because Wit, but scum Tubba has less motive to do so. It's more risky than other paths.
Literally that question was "In a world where Tubba is specifically scum, why is this his path" but you're drawing things from it that... kind of aren't there.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
FYI, claimed Witters (OG or STD) are {Tubba, Az, HR, Anak}
Let me know if I'm missing someone.
I brought up earlier that we might actually be better off just yeeting Tubba/Az as they were the leading yesterday and this is also works with that.
I think I might be waffling a little on Tubba, though, given that despite my lack of response, he apparently did reach out to me again with his wit. (fyi, tubba, with it and you outed, I don't see much point to using it?)
HR is a possibility as well.
Anak has done nothing but whiteknight Az, as others have mentioned. Ok with him too.
What's that? I'm missing a Witted person? Oh no idea who that is. Whoever it is must be super town though.
FYI, claimed Witters (OG or STD) are {Tubba, Az, HR, Anak}
Let me know if I'm missing someone.
I brought up earlier that we might actually be better off just yeeting Tubba/Az as they were the leading yesterday and this is also works with that.
I think I might be waffling a little on Tubba, though, given that despite my lack of response, he apparently did reach out to me again with his wit. (fyi, tubba, with it and you outed, I don't see much point to using it?)
HR is a possibility as well.
Anak has done nothing but whiteknight Az, as others have mentioned. Ok with him too.
What's that? I'm missing a Witted person? Oh no idea who that is. Whoever it is must be super town though.
When did you bring up that we might be better off yeeting tubba/az?
The fact that Azrael has gotten run up twice makes it seem like the gamestate is happy with him dying. It's been pretty quiet all Day, with the votes piling on and no one really saying Az is scum with xyz player, so it doesn't feel like Az is being bussed. Nor is anyone trying to link Az to other slots. There is the Anak/Az connection, but rather than being scum with Azrael because of his defense, he could very well be scum whiteknighting Azrael. I think Highroller is either the only one who thinks they're together, or is the most vocal about it.
Not true, I think that there is a link between Azrael and Anaklusmos and I’ve alluded to it in my posts, see below.
I don't think there's a universe in which you should be targeting Anak, LW. Coming from a mutual cooperation with the town standpoint. He's nowhere near the POE.
Noting this defense of Anaklusmos. And the point of view taken by Azrael that Wisp is and will continue to play as town-sided.
@bessie re:2558 I could have sworn we went over this already: We keep everyone at L-2 until at least the last hour of the day and then we arrange for two players to hammer at once, avoiding this issue.
Even if it goes wrong, so what? It’s still outed scum.
What would Wisp’s flip mean for HR’s content though? What would change?
I was asked a similar question by Anaklusmos, my reply is in Post #2558 :
If Wisp flips not as an independent, but as a member of a faction, then I would reconsider analyzing Highroller’s Wisp-related content. I don’t think Wisp is lying about being independent. Which means Wisp can be attacked by town and non-town so I don’t see what Highroller is doing as alignment indicative.
@bessie re:2685 Are you being coy about something with the underlined “in this thread” here?
I am, and I’m not. It’s my style to be snarky and somewhat indirect when I post my suspicions, and I see that it’s not translating well to a group of people that aren’t familiar with my personality. Refer to my comments about the link between Azrael and Anaklusmos above for another example. I think going forward I’m going to try to be more explicit.
The ones who like being mafia and take pride in it - like Bessie - those are the ones you have to watch out for. The ones that make an art form out of it.
I really hate “this is how I play as town/scum” posts, and I’ve pointed out how this pings me already in this game. But I’m wondering from where you got this idea? I’m known for disliking playing as non-town.
That's someone who takes pride in the decisions that they make, puts thought and effort into forming them. I read her as scum, and Boom says she's one of the very best where she comes from, so I presume that comes from a well-earned pride and confidence in her formidable abilities as scum.
Hmmm, I don’t think BoomFrog said this in this thread.
I just did a quick search to verify, and BoomFrog didn’t say anywhere in this thread that I was one of the very best players on or home site. He said something about me in post #1696 .
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
@Azrael, you didn’t reply to my question. Where did you get the idea that I like being mafia?
So I saw that this looks to be mostly discarded, but just to make sure. Are we doing mass claimings or claiming to someone etc.?
No it never gained any traction, and Tammy mentioned anyway that she didn’t want to be the keeper of the mass claims.
Not voting yet I'm going to check the vote counts, but I'm going to need to vote today. I very likely won't be available tomorrow. My intent right now is to vote for Az/Anak.
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
As someone who has mused more than once this day about there being possible scum in the witted and having just talked about needing to get wisp out today yes I would like to work on the witted issue and help wisp resolve today.
Maybe I'm exasperating to read because you don't read my posts
Yeah, I do admit I've gotten to the point where I mostly skim your posts.
Sorry, you just say things that I agree with but you're so hesitant to be decisive about it by doing things like voting.
My mind just goes 'ughhhhhhhh', look to see if there's anything bolded, and if there isn't I just kind of move along.
I don't mean offense by this, just...yeah, you're right. My bad if you brought this up before. Does that mean you agree?
FYI, claimed Witters (OG or STD) are {Tubba, Az, HR, Anak}
Let me know if I'm missing someone.
I brought up earlier that we might actually be better off just yeeting Tubba/Az as they were the leading yesterday and this is also works with that.
I think I might be waffling a little on Tubba, though, given that despite my lack of response, he apparently did reach out to me again with his wit. (fyi, tubba, with it and you outed, I don't see much point to using it?)
HR is a possibility as well.
Anak has done nothing but whiteknight Az, as others have mentioned. Ok with him too.
What's that? I'm missing a Witted person? Oh no idea who that is. Whoever it is must be super town though.
When did you bring up that we might be better off yeeting tubba/az?
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
...wait what? You think you caught him at a private chat (which would either be skill, and I don't see why they would, or mafiachat) and you're not pressing on it?
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
As someone who has mused more than once this day about there being possible scum in the witted and having just talked about needing to get wisp out today yes I would like to work on the witted issue and help wisp resolve today.
Maybe I'm exasperating to read because you don't read my posts
Yeah, I do admit I've gotten to the point where I mostly skim your posts.
Sorry, you just say things that I agree with but you're so hesitant to be decisive about it by doing things like voting.
My mind just goes 'ughhhhhhhh', look to see if there's anything bolded, and if there isn't I just kind of move along.
I don't mean offense by this, just...yeah, you're right. My bad if you brought this up before. Does that mean you agree?
Yeah, earlier I wondered about the witters. I don't think they're likely to be all town. If the vit stealer or whatever gave us a second kill last night is mafia, I don't think that wisp is given a list of five people who are all town that need to be killed. That just feels like way too much kill power against town.
I also would like to help wisp achieve his win con today. This is really the last day that he can be around and not be a danger to the town. And it would be nice to see HR focus on something else.
I also said that it might be good to just go with tubba/azrael since they were both almost eliminated yesterday and would give us some clarity going forward. I asked when you said that because we might be on the same wavelength and that's scary!
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
As someone who has mused more than once this day about there being possible scum in the witted and having just talked about needing to get wisp out today yes I would like to work on the witted issue and help wisp resolve today.
Maybe I'm exasperating to read because you don't read my posts
Yeah, I do admit I've gotten to the point where I mostly skim your posts.
Sorry, you just say things that I agree with but you're so hesitant to be decisive about it by doing things like voting.
My mind just goes 'ughhhhhhhh', look to see if there's anything bolded, and if there isn't I just kind of move along.
I don't mean offense by this, just...yeah, you're right. My bad if you brought this up before. Does that mean you agree?
I'm not offended. I put my thoughts out there for me to work through what I'm thinking and for anyone who wants to work with those thoughts can and point out where I'm going in right or wrong directions. Not everyone wants to work with thoughts like that, and that's fine. I don't mind if people don't read everything when I'm waffly.
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
...wait what? You think you caught him at a private chat (which would either be skill, and I don't see why they would, or mafiachat) and you're not pressing on it?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I went back to check on my catch-up since I was half-asleep writing them and barely remember them and whoops, just saw that I talked a lot about Az/Anak not likely to be scum for still-valid reasons, meaning yeeting them both toDay when there are other choices might not be optimal.
Hrm. I def think we need to hit an OG and a STD to have the best chances mechanically, but let me recalibrate now. Tubba/Az may actually be for the best, Tubba's effort aside...
FYI, claimed Witters (OG or STD) are {Tubba, Az, HR, Anak}
Let me know if I'm missing someone.
I brought up earlier that we might actually be better off just yeeting Tubba/Az as they were the leading yesterday and this is also works with that.
I think I might be waffling a little on Tubba, though, given that despite my lack of response, he apparently did reach out to me again with his wit. (fyi, tubba, with it and you outed, I don't see much point to using it?)
HR is a possibility as well.
Anak has done nothing but whiteknight Az, as others have mentioned. Ok with him too.
What's that? I'm missing a Witted person? Oh no idea who that is. Whoever it is must be super town though.
When did you bring up that we might be better off yeeting tubba/az?
my catchup somewhere.
Also whoops: er, I didnt see this while reading. So I'm pretty sure I just thought it and forgot to write it down. I'm aware this isn't confirmable lol.
But essentially I was nodding along with Wisp's 2552 on this, which is where the thought was first had.
Interesting, I just realized that Anak doesn't like Sloth. Anak's progress on him looks a little distance-y, only a couple of serious mentions, lumps him together with GJ in his catchup readlist. If anyone cares to read Anak's ISO, it's pretty short.
The most damning things Anak has said about Sloth is implicating him in Rhand's death, and this line here: "But otherwise, Highroller, Sloth, Cuth, Tubba, this is not a wagon that any other town should seriously be considering."
Sloth's mentions of Anak aren't much better, has him at null, no meaningful attempt to get a better read on him. Same with Iso. Big "stick him in null and hope nobody asks me about him" energy.
Him throwing your name into the general consensus PoE stood out to me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It means "fair enough."
You're saying that if 1 or more of {Azrael/Cuth/Bur/HR/Tubba} flips town, your hesitation on me would solidify but right now it's something you're luminous about.
I'm saying that I'm fine with that response - doesn't mean I solidly think you're town or scum as a result, just means I don't care enough about your slot toDay to press further. Besides, ideally we'll have some of those players flip soon and with that you'll have to stand by your words and be assessed by your reactions.
I think the only way anyone is going to get more clarity, either on me or any of the other slots, is doing some hard analysis work.
There's some value in just talking out loud and processing where we're at, but if confusion is the order of the day, going over your question mark slots would be my advice.
Sometimes going after lurkers is a death trap for the town - but sometimes that's just where the scum are. But the nice thing about those lurker slots, if you do have questions about them, they don't take as much time to read up on.
We each have some thoughts and theories and fears in common surrounding what the scum's strategy is re: my lynch, although neither of you are completely clear on what you're looking at. But what is absolutely clear regardless of where you land on my alignment is that the scum very much want players who are trying to figure things out dead, based on that kill pattern. They don't want analysis taking place. They don't want to be figured out.
We shouldn't be so hard up for analysis that losing one more slot completely details us. Not unless everyone just gives up and phones it in. But the more that analysts gets targeted, the more everybody else has to step up and fill the gap.
They're banking on that not happening right now. Don't let them win that way.
I think if Azrael flips town then [anak, boom] are two people who seem to have him as town but aren't doing much to really move the direction in another way and are completely content to let it happen.
Not sure who would be bad faith pushers without really looking back there.
I just hope if he does get eliminated he flips red so I didn't waste three days just focusing on town. I mean at least I shook myself out of it with Johnny.
But even if he flips town, I don't think the scum team is Cuth, HR, Bur, Bessie, Tubba. Scum in there sure, but entire team? I just don't think so.
I think the only way anyone is going to get more clarity, either on me or any of the other slots, is doing some hard analysis work.
There's some value in just talking out loud and processing where we're at, but if confusion is the order of the day, going over your question mark slots would be my advice.
Sometimes going after lurkers is a death trap for the town - but sometimes that's just where the scum are. But the nice thing about those lurker slots, if you do have questions about them, they don't take as much time to read up on.
We each have some thoughts and theories and fears in common surrounding what the scum's strategy is re: my lynch, although neither of you are completely clear on what you're looking at. But what is absolutely clear regardless of where you land on my alignment is that the scum very much want players who are trying to figure things out dead, based on that kill pattern. They don't want analysis taking place. They don't want to be figured out.
We shouldn't be so hard up for analysis that losing one more slot completely details us. Not unless everyone just gives up and phones it in. But the more that analysts gets targeted, the more everybody else has to step up and fill the gap.
They're banking on that not happening right now. Don't let them win that way.
Dude, half of your recent posts read like a motivational speaker/professor lecturing us.
We all know this but how does it help solve anything?
Useless, perhaps, but nonetheless, we do speak of it. And some of us still dream of it. Just as some of us still dream of flying, and killing our own meat, and battling for mates. Some of us still dream of living. You do not want to sleep, Kalo.
You want to die.
Az (6): Highroller, Sloth, Tubba, Bur, Wisp, Tammy
Tubba (4): Cuth, BoomFrog, Bur, Wisp
Wisp (2): Highroller, Sloth
Bur (2): Az, Anak
Cuth (2): Tubba, Az
Anak (2): Vaimes, Tammy
Sloth (2): Vaimes, Cuth
Vaimes (1): BoomFrog
Highroller (1): Anak
Not Voting (3): Cantrip, Bessie, KJ
With 14 alive majority is 8.
@HR @Sloth: The only other wagon besides Az's that has over 2 votes is Tubba. Would you prefer to eliminate Tubba as our second elimination or just eliminate no one with that second elimination?
We're at 24h before DL and unless we CFD someone, our wagons today are Az and Tubba.
Especially Sloth who wants Wisp out, voting Tubba off as the second elimination today should remove Wisp from the game OR expose him as liar (and if it comes to that, I'm not going to think twice about eliminating him tomorrow).
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
...wait what? You think you caught him at a private chat (which would either be skill, and I don't see why they would, or mafiachat) and you're not pressing on it?
I've asked Azrael about this twice, and he hasn't answered, which I have noted.
The ones who like being mafia and take pride in it - like Bessie - those are the ones you have to watch out for. The ones that make an art form out of it.
I really hate “this is how I play as town/scum” posts, and I’ve pointed out how this pings me already in this game. But I’m wondering from where you got this idea? I’m known for disliking playing as non-town.
That's someone who takes pride in the decisions that they make, puts thought and effort into forming them. I read her as scum, and Boom says she's one of the very best where she comes from, so I presume that comes from a well-earned pride and confidence in her formidable abilities as scum.
Hmmm, I don’t think BoomFrog said this in this thread.
I just did a quick search to verify, and BoomFrog didn’t say anywhere in this thread that I was one of the very best players on or home site. He said something about me in post #1696 .
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
@Azrael, you didn’t reply to my question. Where did you get the idea that I like being mafia?
I'm not really sure I want two eliminations. Earlier today I thought it would be great, but although I guess we kinda need two for wisp to be able to fulfill his win con and leave.
No, no we don't need that. We don't need that at all.
Ok. Having slept some, I still think we need to get Wisp out toDay.
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
What the hell are you talking about? The point of killing Wisp is to prevent him from winning! If you're just going to let him win, why even bother trying to kill him in the first place?
Once again, I reiterate, because apparently there's a great deal of confusion on the matter: WE SHOULDN'T LET WISP WIN!
I did answer that already. Spent a few paragraphs on that answer.
If I sound like a motivational speaker on repeat, it's because it isn't having any effect. I've done my game solve, and if I have more time I can go into further detail/revise, but I can't summon up four or five votes on the correct targets by myself. This is a team game. And I'm trying to help my team not be quite so resigned to inertia itself to mislynch and death.
Also, in before another classic role analysis mislynch. How is it that towns never learn to avoid the same tragic pitfalls that they've been falling into for fifteen years? Yes, behavioral analysis takes more homework, but it's so much more accurate.
If you really doubt the provable claim, send LW or some other unclaimed town vig after me.
That only proves your ability, it doesn’t really move the needle on your alignment. You keep saying things that seem reasonable but when I think about them I can’t help but notice the other less charitable interpretations.
unvote Az
I need to think about this
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Hmm...I guess why not consider that he could be scum grabbing cred? But also, is that a real thought he has? And does a potential bodyguard offer himself up like that?
(And HR clarified that he's not protective, my bad.)
Also is your role provable?
You're good.
That’s not what reads as weird though, the weird part is assuming a world where this is a hard question to answer in a scum!Tubba world, it doesn’t wipe away aspects of Tubba’s behavior that have been brought in the past completely unrelated to wisp. KJ’s acting like the answer to this question means Tubba has to be town for no reason?
(This is, in fairness, an exaggerated interpretation I'm using to illustrate my point.)
I'm also pointing out that if so, you're pushing a false premise: As town or scum, Tubba obviously has motivation to push Wisp given that he's a Witter. This one reason is obvious but you act as if you hadn't thought of it.
The other part is that let's say that there wasn't an obvious or even discernable reason for scum!Tubba to push on Wisp, meaning that for all intents and purposes, that push is more likely to come from Town. Does Tubba have no other behavior that could come from scum? He does.
The question to Anak above is worded as if by discrediting the idea that scum!tubba would press wisp it means anything for Tubba's alignment - and given that you were/are willing to vote Tubba, its' even more weird than it was originally.
Ok so what did I get wrong here?
Also 4 protectives? I guess if I squint that could work, given how swingy I can make this game along side whoever is taking vit
We cannot afford to have him around any longer and we can't afford to not hit scum either - worst case scenario with end up with Wisp at f# and we cannot rely on that no matter how much he's townsiding.
I'm not sure where the disagreement is with others or why only HR and I are currently voting for him, but I have an alternative: Let's yeet within the Witted today. We kill two Witted, which gets Wisp his 3 needed to leave the game (which is essentially the same thing as yeeting him for our purposes), and/or outs him as scum. Either way, that situation which we need to resolve gets resolved.
Thoughts?
As someone who has mused more than once this day about there being possible scum in the witted and having just talked about needing to get wisp out today yes I would like to work on the witted issue and help wisp resolve today.
Maybe I'm exasperating to read because you don't read my posts
I'm not sure if you're massively overthinking here. Yes, Tubba has a motive to go for Wisp because Wit, but scum Tubba has less motive to do so. It's more risky than other paths.
Literally that question was "In a world where Tubba is specifically scum, why is this his path" but you're drawing things from it that... kind of aren't there.
Think this world is exceedingly possible if Azrael is town.
Let me know if I'm missing someone.
I brought up earlier that we might actually be better off just yeeting Tubba/Az as they were the leading yesterday and this is also works with that.
I think I might be waffling a little on Tubba, though, given that despite my lack of response, he apparently did reach out to me again with his wit. (fyi, tubba, with it and you outed, I don't see much point to using it?)
HR is a possibility as well.
Anak has done nothing but whiteknight Az, as others have mentioned. Ok with him too.
What's that? I'm missing a Witted person? Oh no idea who that is. Whoever it is must be super town though.
When did you bring up that we might be better off yeeting tubba/az?
Not true, I think that there is a link between Azrael and Anaklusmos and I’ve alluded to it in my posts, see below.
I was asked a similar question by Anaklusmos, my reply is in Post #2558 :
I am, and I’m not. It’s my style to be snarky and somewhat indirect when I post my suspicions, and I see that it’s not translating well to a group of people that aren’t familiar with my personality. Refer to my comments about the link between Azrael and Anaklusmos above for another example. I think going forward I’m going to try to be more explicit.
For reference, here’s my post #2685:
I just did a quick search to verify, and BoomFrog didn’t say anywhere in this thread that I was one of the very best players on or home site. He said something about me in post #1696 .
I kinda don’t think BoomFrog would consider me as one of the best players from our home site, which is why the comment stood out to me. But anyway, what I was trying to imply was that if BoomFrog said that about me, it was in a private chat, not in the thread.
@Azrael, you didn’t reply to my question. Where did you get the idea that I like being mafia?
No it never gained any traction, and Tammy mentioned anyway that she didn’t want to be the keeper of the mass claims.
Not voting yet I'm going to check the vote counts, but I'm going to need to vote today. I very likely won't be available tomorrow. My intent right now is to vote for Az/Anak.
Sorry, you just say things that I agree with but you're so hesitant to be decisive about it by doing things like voting.
My mind just goes 'ughhhhhhhh', look to see if there's anything bolded, and if there isn't I just kind of move along.
I don't mean offense by this, just...yeah, you're right. My bad if you brought this up before. Does that mean you agree?
Yeah, earlier I wondered about the witters. I don't think they're likely to be all town. If the vit stealer or whatever gave us a second kill last night is mafia, I don't think that wisp is given a list of five people who are all town that need to be killed. That just feels like way too much kill power against town.
I also would like to help wisp achieve his win con today. This is really the last day that he can be around and not be a danger to the town. And it would be nice to see HR focus on something else.
I also said that it might be good to just go with tubba/azrael since they were both almost eliminated yesterday and would give us some clarity going forward. I asked when you said that because we might be on the same wavelength and that's scary!
I'm not offended. I put my thoughts out there for me to work through what I'm thinking and for anyone who wants to work with those thoughts can and point out where I'm going in right or wrong directions. Not everyone wants to work with thoughts like that, and that's fine. I don't mind if people don't read everything when I'm waffly.
Saving this for later.
Hrm. I def think we need to hit an OG and a STD to have the best chances mechanically, but let me recalibrate now. Tubba/Az may actually be for the best, Tubba's effort aside...
Also whoops: er, I didnt see this while reading. So I'm pretty sure I just thought it and forgot to write it down. I'm aware this isn't confirmable lol.
But essentially I was nodding along with Wisp's 2552 on this, which is where the thought was first had.
Him throwing your name into the general consensus PoE stood out to me.
I'm not excited about it but will be happy to eat my words if it flips red.
Am I a villager?
You're saying that if 1 or more of {Azrael/Cuth/Bur/HR/Tubba} flips town, your hesitation on me would solidify but right now it's something you're luminous about.
I'm saying that I'm fine with that response - doesn't mean I solidly think you're town or scum as a result, just means I don't care enough about your slot toDay to press further. Besides, ideally we'll have some of those players flip soon and with that you'll have to stand by your words and be assessed by your reactions.
There's some value in just talking out loud and processing where we're at, but if confusion is the order of the day, going over your question mark slots would be my advice.
Sometimes going after lurkers is a death trap for the town - but sometimes that's just where the scum are. But the nice thing about those lurker slots, if you do have questions about them, they don't take as much time to read up on.
We each have some thoughts and theories and fears in common surrounding what the scum's strategy is re: my lynch, although neither of you are completely clear on what you're looking at. But what is absolutely clear regardless of where you land on my alignment is that the scum very much want players who are trying to figure things out dead, based on that kill pattern. They don't want analysis taking place. They don't want to be figured out.
We shouldn't be so hard up for analysis that losing one more slot completely details us. Not unless everyone just gives up and phones it in. But the more that analysts gets targeted, the more everybody else has to step up and fill the gap.
They're banking on that not happening right now. Don't let them win that way.
Not sure who would be bad faith pushers without really looking back there.
I just hope if he does get eliminated he flips red so I didn't waste three days just focusing on town. I mean at least I shook myself out of it with Johnny.
But even if he flips town, I don't think the scum team is Cuth, HR, Bur, Bessie, Tubba. Scum in there sure, but entire team? I just don't think so.
I want Az dead, but I'm more willing to talk about the other person. Anak is fine. Tubba is fine too.
We all know this but how does it help solve anything?
You want to die.
Az (6): Highroller, Sloth, Tubba, Bur, Wisp, Tammy
Tubba (4): Cuth, BoomFrog, Bur, Wisp
Wisp (2): Highroller, Sloth
Bur (2): Az, Anak
Cuth (2): Tubba, Az
Anak (2): Vaimes, Tammy
Sloth (2): Vaimes, Cuth
Vaimes (1): BoomFrog
Highroller (1): Anak
Not Voting (3): Cantrip, Bessie, KJ
With 14 alive majority is 8.
Deadline for Day 3 ending is 0900 AEDT on the 12th. This is 5:00 pm EST on the 11th. This is in just over 24 hours.
We're at 24h before DL and unless we CFD someone, our wagons today are Az and Tubba.
Especially Sloth who wants Wisp out, voting Tubba off as the second elimination today should remove Wisp from the game OR expose him as liar (and if it comes to that, I'm not going to think twice about eliminating him tomorrow).
I've asked Azrael about this twice, and he hasn't answered, which I have noted.
@Azrael, see underlined below.
Or someone Leeroy Jenkinsing and hammering only one of the two people (assuming we don't decide to only yeet one person today).
As helpful as a double lynch, either of Azrael/LastWhisper or Azrael/Anak, would be, it's not worth risking a repeat of yesterday.
No, no we don't need that. We don't need that at all.
Agreed.
What the hell are you talking about? The point of killing Wisp is to prevent him from winning! If you're just going to let him win, why even bother trying to kill him in the first place?
Once again, I reiterate, because apparently there's a great deal of confusion on the matter: WE SHOULDN'T LET WISP WIN!
Feel free to actually do anything at anytime, KJ.
If I sound like a motivational speaker on repeat, it's because it isn't having any effect. I've done my game solve, and if I have more time I can go into further detail/revise, but I can't summon up four or five votes on the correct targets by myself. This is a team game. And I'm trying to help my team not be quite so resigned to inertia itself to mislynch and death.
unvote Anak
Thinking about something.
That only proves your ability, it doesn’t really move the needle on your alignment. You keep saying things that seem reasonable but when I think about them I can’t help but notice the other less charitable interpretations.
unvote Az
I need to think about this