Walk me through your thought process on claiming this early? Did you really believe you were at L-2 with a vote count absent?
There were new movements my way (HR, CC) and I didn't remember (or had time to check) who had unvoted me from the post-RVS wagon. I don't want a repeat of last game where I was vigged unclaimed.
The pot calling the kettle black. Tell us again how your """stances""" do anything besides planting seeds for later votes.
@Highroller Vaimes *did* call you inconsistent, though. At least that's how I and Grapefruit interpreted him. That you apparently disagree has nothing to do with me. The part I did get wrong was implying you had several inconsistencies, I should have double-checked Vaimes' post rather than barn its gist.
I don't blame you for being annoyed by a poorly thought-out vote on you, and in fact your anger makes you look town (it's easier to see votes as bad and get negatively affected by them when you know you are innocent). You will have to find it in you to calm down and move on, preferably before I die. And if I die first, well .
@Highroller Vaimes *did* call you inconsistent, though. At least that's how I and Grapefruit interpreted him. That you apparently disagree has nothing to do with me. The part I did get wrong was implying you had several inconsistencies,
No, you didn't imply that I had several inconsistencies. To imply means to not explicitly state something.
You said, and I quote, "Too many inconsistencies in his mindset, like Vaimes pointed out." That's not an implication of several inconsistencies, that is you explicitly stating that there are multiple inconsistencies. That is the unambiguous meaning of that sentence.
I should have double-checked Vaimes' post rather than barn its gist.
... Why would you need to double-check Vaimes' post to understand what you thought?
See, nothing you're saying makes any sense from a town perspective. If you're a town, and you don't know who the mafia are, and you're gathering information trying to find out who the mafia are, and you read Vaimes' post, and you think, "Wow, Vaimes put together a good argument, I am persuaded," and so you vote for me - if you did all that, then you must have had REASONS for agreeing with him, right?
You must have had reasons for agreeing with the statement, "Highroller has too many inconsistencies," because that was your stated rationale for voting for me. Whether or not Vaimes actually said it, you clearly agreed with it, and so you must have had reasons for agreeing with it.
And yet, whenever you're pressed on this, you keep pointing to other people. "That's what I thought Vaimes said." "Oh, look at Grapefruit21's post." I don't want Grapefruit21's explanation! I want your explanation! What were your reasons for agreeing with what, in your mind, was Vaimes' statement?
Another thing that bothers me, how did you even make that mistake in the first place? How do you even get, "Highroller: Too many inconsistencies in his mindset" from Vaimes' post? You're saying, "Oh, yeah, that's a mistake, I said there were multiple inconsistencies in your mindset when Vaimes was only pointing out one," but how do you even make that mistake in the first place?
You seem to be trying to excuse this by saying that you just got the gist of what Vaimes said without really reading it. Yet... Your justification for following Vaimes' vote for me was that he made really good arguments. And now you're saying you just skimmed them without really reading them? So you were so persuaded by arguments that you glossed over without really reading that you decided to vote for me?
Do you see how none of this makes any sense from the perspective of you being town?
Meanwhile, it makes perfect sense if you're mafia. Then, yeah, you would look to bandwagon vote someone first and then try to come up with an explanation to justify that vote later, because that's what mafia do.
Your idea of "what mafia do" is the exact opposite of how I use my vote as mafia. This (and the following posts) and this are examples of how I vote as mafia. I carefully calculate who is the best target to pick, then spin a web of well-woven bull***** around them. I don't take random shots to see what happens.
And the part about voting first and finding reasons later is something I never do as either alignment and something that hasn't happened this game except in your dreams.
Dear Axelrod,
Are you town? Don’t you dare lie to me. I will know if you lie.
I am! Glad we got that out of the way early.
I'm not going to be politically correct about this, that can be someone else's job,but Axelrod is town and I hereby present Axelrod with the Medal of Honor.
@Axelrod do you accept this Medal? Wear it proudly and know that I will always have your flank.
Uh, provided it doesn't ignite and burn me up in my sleep or something, sure!
I don't know what I think about ZDS yet. I'm probably going to try and figure that out at some point. But not this day.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Rod, ZDS, Silver, and Proph are all town. Grape is scum getting an early we're-totally-scumbuddies interaction with Proph. Axel hemming and hawing over a supposed townslip is an act. The third wolf hasn't posted yet.
Bookmark this post.
Bookmarking this post because it makes Vaimes a wolf
The third wolf is Proph for postgame cred
Do scum make fake predictions for "Postgame Cred"? I don't really think so.
Hey Rod,
I just read the ZDS ISO. I don't think he is scum. Change my mind. I think Crop Circles might actually be OMGUSing ZDS and you are the only other person pushing the ZDS lynch at the moment, so I'm asking you to expand.
Hey Rod,
I just read the ZDS ISO. I don't think he is scum. Change my mind. I think Crop Circles might actually be OMGUSing ZDS and you are the only other person pushing the ZDS lynch at the moment, so I'm asking you to expand.
I WILL DO THAT WHEN I HAVE TIME
BUT I AM BUSY, A FRIEND OF MINE
PASSED AWAY AND IM MOARNING HIS LOSS
HOLD YOUR FRIENDS TIGHT, NO MATTER THE COST
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
To Silver:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Hey Silver, want to talk about this? Is this solely related to the fact that I told Highroller to vote me while having an RVS vote on Vaimes, or is there more?
Not really sure what to make of Silver being intentionally coy while voting me at this point.
kind of side-eyeing JT's posts at this stage, especially when he says "you are the only other person pushing the zds lynch at this moment" when there were just several Highroller posts tearing into ZDS on the last page and this one
his posts have also just been like lacking overall transparency though it's clear he's trying to lean into the trump role-play
just want more people to post honestly. jack hasn't followed up with me, a couple of people are still catching up, etc
Quote from Rodemy »
I WILL DO THAT WHEN I HAVE TIME
BUT I AM BUSY, A FRIEND OF MINE
PASSED AWAY AND IM MOARNING HIS LOSS
HOLD YOUR FRIENDS TIGHT, NO MATTER THE COST
My condolences Rodemy. This year has been unbelievably rough for a lot of us.
kind of side-eyeing JT's posts at this stage, especially when he says "you are the only other person pushing the zds lynch at this moment" when there were just several Highroller posts tearing into ZDS on the last page and this one
his posts have also just been like lacking overall transparency though it's clear he's trying to lean into the trump role-play
just want more people to post honestly. jack hasn't followed up with me, a couple of people are still catching up, etc
Quote from Rodemy »
I WILL DO THAT WHEN I HAVE TIME
BUT I AM BUSY, A FRIEND OF MINE
PASSED AWAY AND IM MOARNING HIS LOSS
HOLD YOUR FRIENDS TIGHT, NO MATTER THE COST
My condolences Rodemy. This year has been unbelievably rough for a lot of us.
Eye away. I'm warming up. Don't read too much into the trump stuff.
@Vaimes it looked like you were crumbing a role that was already claimed (Bird)?
I guess there could be multiples but I, like. Hum.
@Proph That's the main thing yeah, though your defense of ZDS rings a bit hollow too. I'm not sure those thoughts feel real when I put myself in your shoes.
I was being a bit coy to see who cared whether/how my vote was justified but it doesn't seem like anyone is paying attention to me except you, heh.
Here's a bold stance. Neither Rod's nor Highroller's "claims" are suspicious, nor are they clearing in any way. I still kind of like them.
Yes, I am that good.
Proph even mentioning "lurkers" before we're barely a day in is probably not something scum does.
Just catching so going to reply to anything that catchs my attention, starting with this. Why do you feel that scum would not bring attention to lurkers early is that not just a easy way to scum read someone for no reason and that can lead to a easy mislynch.
Yeah, nevermind, I'm going to vote Prophylaxis . I told myself before the game started that I would vote for the first blatantly tryhard post trying to get a town lynched based on logic that made no sense whatsoever, and Prophylaxis' post was one of the biggest examples of this I've ever seen. Gonna stick with my guns.
None of this was needed. It's just scum tossing out word confetti.
Side note: Highroller's formatting works for me but no thim because I'm a villager. QED.
Nowhere does he mention inconsistency of mindset. His vote for me was for alleged "word confetti" when I voted Prophylaxis.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
I normally trust you early because you have a good early game as either side, its your midgame where you tend to get a bit lazy is where I start to have issues.
My dude, the thread is less than three pages long. You can read it on your own and post your own thoughts.
If I agree with someone reasons for scum reading someone of course I'm going to join that wagon if their thoughts also match my own to a small degree and make sense to me. It would be insane not to, we are also only 3 pages in like you say so they is not a major lot of content to work off, and the best way to create more is to create wagons and see how people react to them. You are way over the top defensive for a early wagon, that will likely go nowhere and break up during the day, it is rare for the early wagons to carry though the whole day unless everyone is being lazy.
@Grape do you expect Highroll to be doing something else as scum rather than try to mimic is townplay?
Well no but if he's in his town!range I'm going to need something convincing to start suspecting him. As for the points I'm about to quote back to HR, he's not someone where word confetti is a worry for me. Now if we get continued wishy-washy-ness then I might start to worry but ehhhhhh. He's okay-ish. Really everyone is just okay-ish right now. The only thing that is sticking out at all is people jumping on wagons but like trying to break RVS is definitely a thing.
@Highroller I know you are often a very literal person but in your quote claiming Vaimes didn't mention inconsistency of mindset he said: "Then he changed his mind, which would've been perfectly fine and natural on its own" and "But it wasn't just that. We also got a lot of blah blah blah".
How confident would you say that you are in this read of them, I want to respect your views if it is a high percentage because last time you did this about someone I disagreed, and tunneled them the entire game so want to listen to you more this time. I should perhaps see this as a mini red flag because you were also scum in that game, so had tmi to support your read on Umani that game, and could be doing it again. That is just being paranoid for the sake of being paranoid though and far too early for that nonsense.
His point isn't the word confetti alone or the change of mind alone. It's the combination of the two together.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
Hi Jack.
1) Expand more on why you think that Vaimes is town? I feel pretty comfortable with him myself but I want to hear exactly why you think he's town.
2) What do you think of *me* so far? I understand that my early game entrance has been pretty divisive/polarized, but you basically said "you normally play differently than this".
3) Do you have.... uhh, more substantive thoughts on the game at present? There's a fair amount of content coming in and I find it a little odd you just zero'd in on being a Vaimes stan?
Quote from Silvercrys »
vote: Prophylaxis
This is not related to the "poppin bottles" theory
Hey Silver, want to talk about this? Is this solely related to the fact that I told Highroller to vote me while having an RVS vote on Vaimes, or is there more?
My read on Vaimes as town comes from a tone read and also him being pro active my last exp with him as scum he was less proactive then this and a bit on the lazy side in the mountainous game in MC. I'm a sucker for people that put effort in early and he seems to be showing decent eveluaion and willing to listen to others and not just death tunnel. What makes you think he is town?
You seem a little bit stiff is how I see it, you lack the flair and shining light of townness that I normally see you. Normally you are lock town for me early and then I get paranoid of a deep wolf version of you later. I'm putting this maybe a bit down to rust from not playing for a while so waiting to see if you can play back into that. I know you can also play a scary wolf game as well which is why I'm not committing either way yet to the stiffness.
I zeroed on that because it appealed to me the most I don't think we have a great lot of content I refuse to get pulled into trying to mod game again got burned too much from doing that lately so not going to comment on the claim nonsense. I have also being crazy busy so not deep dived this game to the extend I like to that will come tomorrow when free. I just have light views on people atm and semi doing Wisp's thing of joining wagons to see what happenes if the case appeals to me.
I've never been talked about more. I should interpret other people's posts more often. It's good for the ego.
Anyway the Terry pressure is meh. The Highroller pressure is worse. Silver feels vaguely town. Proph can die, DK can die, Zds can do something else because this current back and forth is going nowhere.
Because, in that instance, they were not actually lurkers. It was a silly thing for him to have said at all. If you were scum, and if your plan was to try and shift attention to lurkers, that is not exactly how/when you would do it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Here's a bold stance. Neither Rod's nor Highroller's "claims" are suspicious, nor are they clearing in any way. I still kind of like them.
Yes, I am that good.
Proph even mentioning "lurkers" before we're barely a day in is probably not something scum does.
Just catching so going to reply to anything that catchs my attention, starting with this. Why do you feel that scum would not bring attention to lurkers early is that not just a easy way to scum read someone for no reason and that can lead to a easy mislynch.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I've never been talked about more. I should interpret other people's posts more often. It's good for the ego.
Anyway the Terry pressure is meh. The Highroller pressure is worse. Silver feels vaguely town. Proph can die, DK can die, Zds can do something else because this current back and forth is going nowhere.
Sorry to break it to you, but the scumteam is JT/Axel/Jack.
I'm changing my view on Highroller after reread he has got better . Partly due to me being a sucker for effort and he is clearly putting in effort atm. I also take back my comment on him being overly defensive after reading his other stuff. If he was doing that his posts would have more panic to them and be less well constructed. This to me feels like a town trying to catch scum who are pushing him with good logic rather then a caught scum that is mad and crushing under pressure. His posts to Grape and just the whole going on with ZDS is proof of this. Its hard for most scum to push back in such a strong way espically with contredictions and the use of perspectives it just has a whole lot of town scum hunting to it which is hard to fake.
And the part about voting first and finding reasons later is something I never do as either alignment and something that hasn't happened this game except in your dreams.
He said, still having not posted his reasons behind casting his vote.
And no, don't say, "But Vaimes said something!" Unless your role PM specifically says, "You have to do whatever Vaimes does," then there's no reason for you to have voted unless you actually agreed with what he was saying.
Yes, you erroneously thought Vaimes was saying I had multiple inconsistencies, but if you were actually telling the truth, you would still have had reasons for agreeing with the idea that I had multiple inconsistencies. So demonstrate this. What did you think my inconsistencies were?
This would not be difficult to do if you actually were a town. Towns gather information to try to figure out who the mafia are, and then vote for people based on thinking they're mafia because of reasons.
Mafia, on the other hand, actively look for excuses to vote towns. It's pretty obvious this is what you did, seeing as how you STILL are incapable of citing any sort of reason for agreeing with the statement that I have multiple inconsistencies of mindset.
Stop looking to Vaimes or Grapefruit21 to explain what YOU thought, and explain it. This is not a trick question.
If I agree with someone reasons for scum reading someone of course I'm going to join that wagon if their thoughts also match my own to a small degree and make sense to me.
Yeah, there's a difference between "if their thoughts also match my own to a small degree and make sense to me," and "I trust Vaimes, I completely agree with Vaimes, what Vaimes said."
I've never been talked about more. I should interpret other people's posts more often. It's good for the ego.
Anyway the Terry pressure is meh. The Highroller pressure is worse. Silver feels vaguely town. Proph can die, DK can die, Zds can do something else because this current back and forth is going nowhere.
Sorry to break it to you, but the scumteam is JT/Axel/Jack.
Expand on this team and also when do you not think I'm scum lol. In general on this site I'm either largely town read or scum read with no middle ground. On that actually the fact ZDS has not took any stance on me based off how recent games together is weird to me, but that is perhaps due to my lack of content and also his war with Highroller.
Because, in that instance, they were not actually lurkers. It was a silly thing for him to have said at all. If you were scum, and if your plan was to try and shift attention to lurkers, that is not exactly how/when you would do it.
Why do it as town though is my issue, I would expect from some people this early, but not him. It just felt like a way to try and engage thread because unsure what to do imo. I think his recent stuff has being a bit better but still feels a bit lacking from what I expect. What is your view?
If I was going to vote someone atm it would be CC because his posts and stance on ZDS and how it changed are just not making sense to me. His responses to ZDS after his weird as hell vote also match more with the over defensiveness that I was referring to eariler unlike Highroller who looks like he is really scum hunting in his responses. CC looks scared and lost and just doing simple replies like a deer in the headlights. ZDS comes out way ahead in their exchange and considering how much I push ZDS early most games that takes some doing.
Prop is also a concern to me for the reasons just given so want others thoughts on him.
I would also not hate a vote on JT his posts are adding nothing to this game, but this also means I have nothing really to scum read him on either.
I'm good with Grape his posts are helpful at least and showing his thoughts.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
Axel can be town because being proactive and I like his posts.
I like how Silver is sharing my paranoia in Prop and is pushing it still and has good engagnments in thread I think he would be in my top 3 town with Vaimes and Highroller.
Rod is still town to me, even for the dumb reason I don't think he plays this way as scum, but like always I just keep Rod to the side and see what happens since I have not seen him as scum yet and this feels like normal him.
Vaimes and Highroller are both town for me for reasons given.
I have the most reasons to vote here all 3 of the top wagons are good atm though based off current content. DK and JT are too low content to be valid trains just yet imo.
@JoeTerry Highroller is by far the one pushing my lynch the most.
@Rodemy My condolences to you and your friend's family.
@Vaimes Why is your scum team missing CC?
@Highroller I already explained multiple times I was barning Vaimes and that using the plural was a mistake on my part from not paying close enough attention. He accused you of showing inconsistency, I agreed, and I followed with whatever wording came to my head even though in retrospect the meaning was wrong. Conclude whatever you will from it, but stop asking for something that doesn't exist and stop acting like I haven't repeatedly said I messed up.
I voted you in the very early morning with my mind unfocused. Also English isn't my first language. It was the perfect context for messing up. I have no reason for that vote aside from finding Vaimes' case convincing. I do not have a list of several inconsistencies and I'm not going to make one up. This is (I hope) the last time I will explain all this. It is no longer up to me to answer your interrogation, it is up to you to accept that I have already answered even if it wasn't the answer you were looking for.
@Jack You are in my "to read later" pile, alongside Axel or JoeTerry or Grape. Your content was indeed lacking at first, and now you have given us the type of content that should be analysed in retrospect and compared with flips.
About "considering how much I push ZDS early most games": That may have been the case in Voldemort, but it was the opposite in Prison Block and Matter. One in three is hardly "most games".
I already explained multiple times I was barning Vaimes and that using the plural was a mistake on my part from not paying close enough attention.
I have no reason for that vote aside from finding Vaimes' case convincing.
So the argument that you didn't actually pay attention to is what convinced you to vote me?
No, that doesn't make any sense at all, does it?
You can't argue that the argument you clearly didn't understand or pay attention to was so persuasive as to move you to vote when you claimed Vaimes' argument to be the exact opposite of what he actually argued.
This is very important to stress. You didn't just get Vaimes argument wrong, you were arguing the exact opposite of what he was saying. Vaimes wasn't voting for me because I was changing my mind. We know this BECAUSE HE SAID SO.
Yeah, nevermind, I'm going to vote Prophylaxis . I told myself before the game started that I would vote for the first blatantly tryhard post trying to get a town lynched based on logic that made no sense whatsoever, and Prophylaxis' post was one of the biggest examples of this I've ever seen. Gonna stick with my guns.
None of this was needed. It's just scum tossing out word confetti.
Here's the post in its entirety, so we know I'm not taking it out of context.
Yeah, nevermind, I'm going to vote Prophylaxis . I told myself before the game started that I would vote for the first blatantly tryhard post trying to get a town lynched based on logic that made no sense whatsoever, and Prophylaxis' post was one of the biggest examples of this I've ever seen. Gonna stick with my guns.
None of this was needed. It's just scum tossing out word confetti.
Side note: Highroller's formatting works for me but no thim because I'm a villager. QED.
You're trying to sweep this under the rug, saying, "Yeah, I only got the gist of what Vaimes was saying, I missed on some of the finer details."
Except, no, you didn't. You said the exact opposite of what he was saying.
This is why I keep asking you what your basis for saying I have too many inconsistences was. Because it wasn't Vaimes' argument, because it can't have been. You can't get the argument totally wrong and say your reasons for acting on your wrongful interpretation was how persuasive the argument was.
Once again, unless you had a PM saying, "You must do whatever Vaimes does," you would need a reason to agree with him. Right? Just because someone argues something doesn't mean you have to vote based on that argument. You chose to do so, so there must have been something you agreed with.
You agreed with what you thought Vaimes said, that I had too many inconsistencies. What was your basis for believing that? What was your basis for agreeing with that idea? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Because you're saying, "Well it was Vaimes bringing up really good points," but Vaimes didn't bring up any such points. That's the whole reason we're having this discussion!
So your basis for your stance had to come from something else. What was it?
Because it seems like you didn't actually have one. That makes no sense from a town. Towns go look for mafia, form reasons why they think people are mafia, and then vote for those people.
Mafia, on the other hand, don't need reasons for jumping on bandwagons, because that's how they win. Mafia seek out towns they can lynch, and then make up justifications for voting them that will try to avoid suspicion.
I can't wait to see your reaction to learning my alignment, whenever it's going to happen. Although I hope you aren't the type who always blames others for your own shortcomings.
In the meantime you should find a better (more constructive) way to spend your energy than addressing me these walls of text that I'm going to keep dismissing or ignoring.
If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
As I said, I think he is inventing reasons to cast suspicion on me. Basically the same thing he did with Highroller. Are you asking me to explain why scum have to invent reasons to cast suspicion?
If I was going to vote someone atm it would be CC because his posts and stance on ZDS and how it changed are just not making sense to me. His responses to ZDS after his weird as hell vote also match more with the over defensiveness that I was referring to eariler unlike Highroller who looks like he is really scum hunting in his responses. CC looks scared and lost and just doing simple replies like a deer in the headlights. ZDS comes out way ahead in their exchange and considering how much I push ZDS early most games that takes some doing.
I can't wait to see your reaction to learning my alignment, whenever it's going to happen. Although I hope you aren't the type who always blames others for your own shortcomings.
In the meantime you should find a better (more constructive) way to spend your energy than addressing me these walls of text that I'm going to keep dismissing or ignoring.
I was going to point out that this only makes sense if Highroller is town, but then I remembered that you probably know he's not mafia because he wasn't listed in your role PM.
Bleh I cannot read at this time
For I drank too much, oh this headache of mine
I’ll read tomorrow I really do promise
But now leave me be, with Timothy Thomas
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
In the meantime you should find a better (more constructive) way to spend your energy than addressing me these walls of text that I'm going to keep dismissing or ignoring.
I love how you're casually saying that you're refusing to address arguments against you like that isn't something suspicious.
Because if you were actually town, it would make no sense for you to repeatedly hide behind "Well Vaimes said it!" because again, it's not like your role mandates that you agree with Vaimes. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to go along with what you thought Vaimes had said. You agreed with it, and if you were a town, you would actually be able to explain your rationale for why you agreed.
Repeatedly trying to hide behind Vaimes - especially when Vaimes never said any such thing - makes no sense if you're a town. If you were town, and actually voted for me out for reasons instead of blatant bandwagoning, you would be able to post your rationale for saying I had multiple inconsistencies. You wouldn't have to hide behind Vaimes.
So why are you so incapable of explaining the mindset that lead you to cast your vote? If you were authentically a town, you would have nothing to hide. More importantly, you wouldn't have to make anything up after the fact. You could point out things that you thought were inconsistencies that lead you to say, "Highroller has inconsistencies."
You'd easily be able to say, "You're right, Highroller, I did misinterpret what Vaimes said. I thought he was saying you had multiple inconsistencies. My mindset was I read your post and saw in them multiple inconsistencies, which I shall detail [details inconsistencies], and then when Vaimes made his post, I thought he was thinking along the same lines, so I stated I agreed with him." Simple!
But you haven't. You just keep posting, "I agreed with what Vaimes is saying" when it's impossible that Vaimes could have persuaded you because he was arguing the exact opposite of what you said.
Again, makes no sense if you were town. It makes perfect sense if you're mafia, because forming bandwagons against towns is how the mafia win the game. You wouldn't need any more reason to jump on a bandwagon against a town other than the existence of such a bandwagon, because that's what mafia do.
The question then becomes whether there's any way you could be more obviously mafia.
I suppose one way would be if we could actually find something in your posts while rereading the thread that would actually constitute either an inconsistency in my mindset, or at least something that a townie might perceive to be such, and have it be something that you could have pointed out at any time when pressed for inconsistencies, but instead have it be something you completely forgot about and never mentioned again.
That would be a pretty damning piece of evidence, because you've said repeatedly that the basis behind your statement was solely because you were convinced by Vaimes - who post only pointed out one inconsistency, but which you misunderstood to be pointing out more. For you to have at least one other inconsistency would make it pretty conclusive that you didn't actually care about inconsistencies at all, and were just voting me purely out of opportunism, seeing a chance to vote a town and then deflect blame by saying you were just following the persuasive arguments of another.
See above. Why did you flavourclaim first thing if you are that aware of scum having fakeclaims?
I found that when I reread the thread. I had forgotten about it. So did you, clearly.
I would go on to explain it later, but, yeah. I could actually see a town seeing that as an inconsistency. In fact, it works better than my changing my mind and voting Prophylaxis instead of just FOSing him.
This is why I've asked you so many times to explain your mindset for saying I had so many inconsistencies. I wanted to see if you'd bring this post up. This is even in the same post where you cast your vote against me, and yet you never mentioned it when I asked you to explain your rationale for saying I had inconsistencies. Why not? How did YOU forget about this?
Is it because your reason for voting me was never actually about my having inconsistencies, you just wrote that as some post-hoc explanation for your vote? HMMMMMM!
@Proph That's the main thing yeah, though your defense of ZDS rings a bit hollow too. I'm not sure those thoughts feel real when I put myself in your shoes.
I was being a bit coy to see who cared whether/how my vote was justified but it doesn't seem like anyone is paying attention to me except you, heh.
There's probably a better way to word this, but why did you think me telling Highroller to vote me if he voiced suspicion of me, but me not placing a non-RVS vote on anyone else shows a malicious mindset? I didn't feel anyone was particularly suspicious in the first 24 hours of the game.
Quote from Jackrito »
My read on Vaimes as town comes from a tone read and also him being pro active my last exp with him as scum he was less proactive then this and a bit on the lazy side in the mountainous game in MC. I'm a sucker for people that put effort in early and he seems to be showing decent eveluaion and willing to listen to others and not just death tunnel. What makes you think he is town?
Kind of a fan of him just going for the throat with his hottakes. Granted, I don't have that much experience with scum!Vaimes but I think he would take a more traditional, by-the-book approach if he rolled red this game (esp. with a playerbase like this) and focus on not pissing people off early.
Quote from Jackrito »
You seem a little bit stiff is how I see it, you lack the flair and shining light of townness that I normally see you. Normally you are lock town for me early and then I get paranoid of a deep wolf version of you later. I'm putting this maybe a bit down to rust from not playing for a while so waiting to see if you can play back into that. I know you can also play a scary wolf game as well which is why I'm not committing either way yet to the stiffness.
I know this is par for the course from you but I'm not the biggest fan of this read on me? "You're stiff, you're normally lock town to me but I know you have a good wolf game so I'm not going to say either way" is like - the definition of wishi-washiness.
Point taken on the light view stuff. This game is still pretty young, hopefully your stuff from last night gives me some better insights into your alignment.
I've never been talked about more. I should interpret other people's posts more often. It's good for the ego.
Anyway the Terry pressure is meh. The Highroller pressure is worse. Silver feels vaguely town. Proph can die, DK can die, Zds can do something else because this current back and forth is going nowhere.
Jokes aside:
1) Why is the Terry pressure "meh"? So far it's just been me and Vaimes kind of side-eyeing him while he takes his sweet time catching up.
2) At the point you made this point, I /think/ the only person seriously pressuring Highroller was Jack, so what do you think of him?
3) Why does Silver feel vaguely town? Can you substantiate this with any posts of his that make you feel this way, or is this just gut coming from you?
4) What do you think of CropCircles? As far as I'm aware of the thread's been mostly Highroller laying it into ZDS, ZDS defending himself, and then trying to point people into voting someone he suspects (CC)
As far as I'm aware of the thread's been mostly Highroller laying it into ZDS, ZDS defending himself,
Except no. ZDS hasn't been defending himself. Grapefruit21 defended ZDS, and ZDS has been hiding behind Grapefruit21's post defending him, even though that defense is totally inadequate.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
I'm not very familiar with scum ZDS, but is he the type of player to instigate a wagon on his buddy? He literally plucked CropCircles from obscurity and voted him as soon as CC made his first post - I /feel/ like that isn't the type of thing scum would normally do? What exactly do you think is off from their engagement?
Quote from Jackrito »
I like how Silver is sharing my paranoia in Prop and is pushing it still and has good engagnments in thread I think he would be in my top 3 town with Vaimes and Highroller.
What "good engagements" exactly do you think Silver has? Think he's been very intentionally curt this game, which is not what I expect from Silver.
Quote from CC »
As I said, I think he is inventing reasons to cast suspicion on me. Basically the same thing he did with Highroller. Are you asking me to explain why scum have to invent reasons to cast suspicion?
I'm saying that I think his reasoning that he used to suspect you early is valid, and you have been very reactive and lacking general inquisitiveness over these past five days.
Idk, maybe you're just content to sit around and observe, but that's not how you catch scum
Expand on this team and also when do you not think I'm scum lol. In general on this site I'm either largely town read or scum read with no middle ground. On that actually the fact ZDS has not took any stance on me based off how recent games together is weird to me, but that is perhaps due to my lack of content and also his war with Highroller.
The first impression I got from your post to Axelrod was "forced scumbuddy interaction." Even if that post was worth responding to at all, I find it even less likely the part of his post that prompted you to quote it was the boring "scum blah blah lurkers blah" line.
I'm not in love with Highroller's early tunneling because it could be a way to be active without really giving content [on other players]. But he's a bird so I'm okay with him.
I was town and we lost, but we got to be birds so really we were all winners.
-------------
Votes on ZDS and Proph are good, votes on Highroller are bad
The pot calling the kettle black. Tell us again how your """stances""" do anything besides planting seeds for later votes.
@Highroller Vaimes *did* call you inconsistent, though. At least that's how I and Grapefruit interpreted him. That you apparently disagree has nothing to do with me. The part I did get wrong was implying you had several inconsistencies, I should have double-checked Vaimes' post rather than barn its gist.
I don't blame you for being annoyed by a poorly thought-out vote on you, and in fact your anger makes you look town (it's easier to see votes as bad and get negatively affected by them when you know you are innocent). You will have to find it in you to calm down and move on, preferably before I die. And if I die first, well . There were new movements my way (HR, CC) and I didn't remember (or had time to check) who had unvoted me from the post-RVS wagon. I don't want a repeat of last game where I was vigged unclaimed.
Please bold your vl/a’s and / or notify me on discord in your private channel.
You said, and I quote, "Too many inconsistencies in his mindset, like Vaimes pointed out." That's not an implication of several inconsistencies, that is you explicitly stating that there are multiple inconsistencies. That is the unambiguous meaning of that sentence.
... Why would you need to double-check Vaimes' post to understand what you thought?
See, nothing you're saying makes any sense from a town perspective. If you're a town, and you don't know who the mafia are, and you're gathering information trying to find out who the mafia are, and you read Vaimes' post, and you think, "Wow, Vaimes put together a good argument, I am persuaded," and so you vote for me - if you did all that, then you must have had REASONS for agreeing with him, right?
You must have had reasons for agreeing with the statement, "Highroller has too many inconsistencies," because that was your stated rationale for voting for me. Whether or not Vaimes actually said it, you clearly agreed with it, and so you must have had reasons for agreeing with it.
And yet, whenever you're pressed on this, you keep pointing to other people. "That's what I thought Vaimes said." "Oh, look at Grapefruit21's post." I don't want Grapefruit21's explanation! I want your explanation! What were your reasons for agreeing with what, in your mind, was Vaimes' statement?
Another thing that bothers me, how did you even make that mistake in the first place? How do you even get, "Highroller: Too many inconsistencies in his mindset" from Vaimes' post? You're saying, "Oh, yeah, that's a mistake, I said there were multiple inconsistencies in your mindset when Vaimes was only pointing out one," but how do you even make that mistake in the first place?
You seem to be trying to excuse this by saying that you just got the gist of what Vaimes said without really reading it. Yet... Your justification for following Vaimes' vote for me was that he made really good arguments. And now you're saying you just skimmed them without really reading them? So you were so persuaded by arguments that you glossed over without really reading that you decided to vote for me?
Do you see how none of this makes any sense from the perspective of you being town?
Meanwhile, it makes perfect sense if you're mafia. Then, yeah, you would look to bandwagon vote someone first and then try to come up with an explanation to justify that vote later, because that's what mafia do.
And the part about voting first and finding reasons later is something I never do as either alignment and something that hasn't happened this game except in your dreams.
I don't know what I think about ZDS yet. I'm probably going to try and figure that out at some point. But not this day.
ZeDorkSlipeur (3): Rodemy, CropCircles42, Highroller
Prophylaxis (2): Dkingsland967, Silvercrys3467
CropCircles42 (2): ZeDorkSlipeur, Prophylaxis
dkingsland (1): Grapefruit21
Axelrod (1): Vaimes
Highroller (1): Jackrito
Not voting: Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
ALSO EBWOP for my last post:
I see that it was a serious vote now... noted
I just read the ZDS ISO. I don't think he is scum. Change my mind. I think Crop Circles might actually be OMGUSing ZDS and you are the only other person pushing the ZDS lynch at the moment, so I'm asking you to expand.
OBVIOUS SCUM, HAVE AT THEE
LYNCH HIM NOW, AND BE DONE WITH HIM
OR FACE THE WRATH OF MY HAMMER, TIM
I WILL DO THAT WHEN I HAVE TIME
BUT I AM BUSY, A FRIEND OF MINE
PASSED AWAY AND IM MOARNING HIS LOSS
HOLD YOUR FRIENDS TIGHT, NO MATTER THE COST
To CC:
To Silver:
Not really sure what to make of Silver being intentionally coy while voting me at this point.
his posts have also just been like lacking overall transparency though it's clear he's trying to lean into the trump role-play
just want more people to post honestly. jack hasn't followed up with me, a couple of people are still catching up, etc
My condolences Rodemy. This year has been unbelievably rough for a lot of us.
TIM IS A MIGHTY NAME
UNLIKE JOE TERRY, WHICH IS KINDA LAME
JT might be scum.
I guess there could be multiples but I, like. Hum.
@Proph That's the main thing yeah, though your defense of ZDS rings a bit hollow too. I'm not sure those thoughts feel real when I put myself in your shoes.
I was being a bit coy to see who cared whether/how my vote was justified but it doesn't seem like anyone is paying attention to me except you, heh.
Why would I crumb any sort of character in a game with fakeclaims.
How do I get off this ride.
Silver, I was in a bird-themed game on MU. I had the mod combine my usual avatar with a pelican and I'm still mildly in character.
Just catching so going to reply to anything that catchs my attention, starting with this. Why do you feel that scum would not bring attention to lurkers early is that not just a easy way to scum read someone for no reason and that can lead to a easy mislynch.
If I agree with someone reasons for scum reading someone of course I'm going to join that wagon if their thoughts also match my own to a small degree and make sense to me. It would be insane not to, we are also only 3 pages in like you say so they is not a major lot of content to work off, and the best way to create more is to create wagons and see how people react to them. You are way over the top defensive for a early wagon, that will likely go nowhere and break up during the day, it is rare for the early wagons to carry though the whole day unless everyone is being lazy.
My read on Vaimes as town comes from a tone read and also him being pro active my last exp with him as scum he was less proactive then this and a bit on the lazy side in the mountainous game in MC. I'm a sucker for people that put effort in early and he seems to be showing decent eveluaion and willing to listen to others and not just death tunnel. What makes you think he is town?
You seem a little bit stiff is how I see it, you lack the flair and shining light of townness that I normally see you. Normally you are lock town for me early and then I get paranoid of a deep wolf version of you later. I'm putting this maybe a bit down to rust from not playing for a while so waiting to see if you can play back into that. I know you can also play a scary wolf game as well which is why I'm not committing either way yet to the stiffness.
I zeroed on that because it appealed to me the most I don't think we have a great lot of content I refuse to get pulled into trying to mod game again got burned too much from doing that lately so not going to comment on the claim nonsense. I have also being crazy busy so not deep dived this game to the extend I like to that will come tomorrow when free. I just have light views on people atm and semi doing Wisp's thing of joining wagons to see what happenes if the case appeals to me.
Anyway the Terry pressure is meh. The Highroller pressure is worse. Silver feels vaguely town. Proph can die, DK can die, Zds can do something else because this current back and forth is going nowhere.
unvote
And no, don't say, "But Vaimes said something!" Unless your role PM specifically says, "You have to do whatever Vaimes does," then there's no reason for you to have voted unless you actually agreed with what he was saying.
Yes, you erroneously thought Vaimes was saying I had multiple inconsistencies, but if you were actually telling the truth, you would still have had reasons for agreeing with the idea that I had multiple inconsistencies. So demonstrate this. What did you think my inconsistencies were?
This would not be difficult to do if you actually were a town. Towns gather information to try to figure out who the mafia are, and then vote for people based on thinking they're mafia because of reasons.
Mafia, on the other hand, actively look for excuses to vote towns. It's pretty obvious this is what you did, seeing as how you STILL are incapable of citing any sort of reason for agreeing with the statement that I have multiple inconsistencies of mindset.
Stop looking to Vaimes or Grapefruit21 to explain what YOU thought, and explain it. This is not a trick question.
Since me.
Bird is the greatest role ever. Don't throw shade at my role.
Yeah, there's a difference between "if their thoughts also match my own to a small degree and make sense to me," and "I trust Vaimes, I completely agree with Vaimes, what Vaimes said."
Expand on this team and also when do you not think I'm scum lol. In general on this site I'm either largely town read or scum read with no middle ground. On that actually the fact ZDS has not took any stance on me based off how recent games together is weird to me, but that is perhaps due to my lack of content and also his war with Highroller.
Why do it as town though is my issue, I would expect from some people this early, but not him. It just felt like a way to try and engage thread because unsure what to do imo. I think his recent stuff has being a bit better but still feels a bit lacking from what I expect. What is your view?
Prop is also a concern to me for the reasons just given so want others thoughts on him.
I would also not hate a vote on JT his posts are adding nothing to this game, but this also means I have nothing really to scum read him on either.
I'm good with Grape his posts are helpful at least and showing his thoughts.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
Axel can be town because being proactive and I like his posts.
I like how Silver is sharing my paranoia in Prop and is pushing it still and has good engagnments in thread I think he would be in my top 3 town with Vaimes and Highroller.
Rod is still town to me, even for the dumb reason I don't think he plays this way as scum, but like always I just keep Rod to the side and see what happens since I have not seen him as scum yet and this feels like normal him.
Vaimes and Highroller are both town for me for reasons given.
So much for not deep diving till tomorrow.
vote : CropCircles42
I would say his play so far has the exact opposite of proactive. He's playing very reactively imo.
What posts of his exactly do you like?
@Rodemy My condolences to you and your friend's family.
@Vaimes Why is your scum team missing CC?
@Highroller I already explained multiple times I was barning Vaimes and that using the plural was a mistake on my part from not paying close enough attention. He accused you of showing inconsistency, I agreed, and I followed with whatever wording came to my head even though in retrospect the meaning was wrong. Conclude whatever you will from it, but stop asking for something that doesn't exist and stop acting like I haven't repeatedly said I messed up.
I voted you in the very early morning with my mind unfocused. Also English isn't my first language. It was the perfect context for messing up. I have no reason for that vote aside from finding Vaimes' case convincing. I do not have a list of several inconsistencies and I'm not going to make one up. This is (I hope) the last time I will explain all this. It is no longer up to me to answer your interrogation, it is up to you to accept that I have already answered even if it wasn't the answer you were looking for.
@Jack You are in my "to read later" pile, alongside Axel or JoeTerry or Grape. Your content was indeed lacking at first, and now you have given us the type of content that should be analysed in retrospect and compared with flips.
About "considering how much I push ZDS early most games": That may have been the case in Voldemort, but it was the opposite in Prison Block and Matter. One in three is hardly "most games".
No, that doesn't make any sense at all, does it?
You can't argue that the argument you clearly didn't understand or pay attention to was so persuasive as to move you to vote when you claimed Vaimes' argument to be the exact opposite of what he actually argued.
This is very important to stress. You didn't just get Vaimes argument wrong, you were arguing the exact opposite of what he was saying. Vaimes wasn't voting for me because I was changing my mind. We know this BECAUSE HE SAID SO.
He was voting for me because he didn't buy the explanation of my changing my mind.
Here's the post in its entirety, so we know I'm not taking it out of context.
You're trying to sweep this under the rug, saying, "Yeah, I only got the gist of what Vaimes was saying, I missed on some of the finer details."
Except, no, you didn't. You said the exact opposite of what he was saying.
This is why I keep asking you what your basis for saying I have too many inconsistences was. Because it wasn't Vaimes' argument, because it can't have been. You can't get the argument totally wrong and say your reasons for acting on your wrongful interpretation was how persuasive the argument was.
Once again, unless you had a PM saying, "You must do whatever Vaimes does," you would need a reason to agree with him. Right? Just because someone argues something doesn't mean you have to vote based on that argument. You chose to do so, so there must have been something you agreed with.
You agreed with what you thought Vaimes said, that I had too many inconsistencies. What was your basis for believing that? What was your basis for agreeing with that idea? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Because you're saying, "Well it was Vaimes bringing up really good points," but Vaimes didn't bring up any such points. That's the whole reason we're having this discussion!
So your basis for your stance had to come from something else. What was it?
Because it seems like you didn't actually have one. That makes no sense from a town. Towns go look for mafia, form reasons why they think people are mafia, and then vote for those people.
Mafia, on the other hand, don't need reasons for jumping on bandwagons, because that's how they win. Mafia seek out towns they can lynch, and then make up justifications for voting them that will try to avoid suspicion.
It's very clear you're in the second category.
I can't wait to see your reaction to learning my alignment, whenever it's going to happen. Although I hope you aren't the type who always blames others for your own shortcomings.
In the meantime you should find a better (more constructive) way to spend your energy than addressing me these walls of text that I'm going to keep dismissing or ignoring.
Except I'm not scared or lost.
I was going to point out that this only makes sense if Highroller is town, but then I remembered that you probably know he's not mafia because he wasn't listed in your role PM.
For I drank too much, oh this headache of mine
I’ll read tomorrow I really do promise
But now leave me be, with Timothy Thomas
Because if you were actually town, it would make no sense for you to repeatedly hide behind "Well Vaimes said it!" because again, it's not like your role mandates that you agree with Vaimes. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to go along with what you thought Vaimes had said. You agreed with it, and if you were a town, you would actually be able to explain your rationale for why you agreed.
Repeatedly trying to hide behind Vaimes - especially when Vaimes never said any such thing - makes no sense if you're a town. If you were town, and actually voted for me out for reasons instead of blatant bandwagoning, you would be able to post your rationale for saying I had multiple inconsistencies. You wouldn't have to hide behind Vaimes.
So why are you so incapable of explaining the mindset that lead you to cast your vote? If you were authentically a town, you would have nothing to hide. More importantly, you wouldn't have to make anything up after the fact. You could point out things that you thought were inconsistencies that lead you to say, "Highroller has inconsistencies."
You'd easily be able to say, "You're right, Highroller, I did misinterpret what Vaimes said. I thought he was saying you had multiple inconsistencies. My mindset was I read your post and saw in them multiple inconsistencies, which I shall detail [details inconsistencies], and then when Vaimes made his post, I thought he was thinking along the same lines, so I stated I agreed with him." Simple!
But you haven't. You just keep posting, "I agreed with what Vaimes is saying" when it's impossible that Vaimes could have persuaded you because he was arguing the exact opposite of what you said.
Again, makes no sense if you were town. It makes perfect sense if you're mafia, because forming bandwagons against towns is how the mafia win the game. You wouldn't need any more reason to jump on a bandwagon against a town other than the existence of such a bandwagon, because that's what mafia do.
The question then becomes whether there's any way you could be more obviously mafia.
I suppose one way would be if we could actually find something in your posts while rereading the thread that would actually constitute either an inconsistency in my mindset, or at least something that a townie might perceive to be such, and have it be something that you could have pointed out at any time when pressed for inconsistencies, but instead have it be something you completely forgot about and never mentioned again.
That would be a pretty damning piece of evidence, because you've said repeatedly that the basis behind your statement was solely because you were convinced by Vaimes - who post only pointed out one inconsistency, but which you misunderstood to be pointing out more. For you to have at least one other inconsistency would make it pretty conclusive that you didn't actually care about inconsistencies at all, and were just voting me purely out of opportunism, seeing a chance to vote a town and then deflect blame by saying you were just following the persuasive arguments of another.
Guess what? There is.
I found that when I reread the thread. I had forgotten about it. So did you, clearly.
I would go on to explain it later, but, yeah. I could actually see a town seeing that as an inconsistency. In fact, it works better than my changing my mind and voting Prophylaxis instead of just FOSing him.
This is why I've asked you so many times to explain your mindset for saying I had so many inconsistencies. I wanted to see if you'd bring this post up. This is even in the same post where you cast your vote against me, and yet you never mentioned it when I asked you to explain your rationale for saying I had inconsistencies. Why not? How did YOU forget about this?
Is it because your reason for voting me was never actually about my having inconsistencies, you just wrote that as some post-hoc explanation for your vote? HMMMMMM!
There's probably a better way to word this, but why did you think me telling Highroller to vote me if he voiced suspicion of me, but me not placing a non-RVS vote on anyone else shows a malicious mindset? I didn't feel anyone was particularly suspicious in the first 24 hours of the game.
Kind of a fan of him just going for the throat with his hottakes. Granted, I don't have that much experience with scum!Vaimes but I think he would take a more traditional, by-the-book approach if he rolled red this game (esp. with a playerbase like this) and focus on not pissing people off early.
I know this is par for the course from you but I'm not the biggest fan of this read on me? "You're stiff, you're normally lock town to me but I know you have a good wolf game so I'm not going to say either way" is like - the definition of wishi-washiness.
Point taken on the light view stuff. This game is still pretty young, hopefully your stuff from last night gives me some better insights into your alignment.
Jokes aside:
1) Why is the Terry pressure "meh"? So far it's just been me and Vaimes kind of side-eyeing him while he takes his sweet time catching up.
2) At the point you made this point, I /think/ the only person seriously pressuring Highroller was Jack, so what do you think of him?
3) Why does Silver feel vaguely town? Can you substantiate this with any posts of his that make you feel this way, or is this just gut coming from you?
4) What do you think of CropCircles? As far as I'm aware of the thread's been mostly Highroller laying it into ZDS, ZDS defending himself, and then trying to point people into voting someone he suspects (CC)
What "good engagements" exactly do you think Silver has? Think he's been very intentionally curt this game, which is not what I expect from Silver.
I'm saying that I think his reasoning that he used to suspect you early is valid, and you have been very reactive and lacking general inquisitiveness over these past five days.
Idk, maybe you're just content to sit around and observe, but that's not how you catch scum
-
I'm not in love with Highroller's early tunneling because it could be a way to be active without really giving content [on other players]. But he's a bird so I'm okay with him.