So are you purposefully not mentioning how I'm the one (I believe, maybe Grape or someone else said it first) that brought up ZDS/Highroller being a tvt fight, or that the "good points" brought up on Jack was also me? Or how we both don't really like Axel? Or how I'm townreading Proph?
I don't understand how you can be saying "I don't agree with Vaimes and he's scummy" but also "Here are my opinions, some of which are similar to Vaimes' which is a little worrying so here's how it affects my thoughts." It's like you're trying to divorce me from my own opinions, so that you can have those same opinions without it looking weird.
"Rod, ZDS, Silver, and Proph are all town. Grape is scum getting an early we're-totally-scumbuddies interaction with Proph"-Diasgree
"The third wolf has now posted."-Diasgree
"Yeah, that's a scum vote.
Unvote, Vote Highroller" - Diasgree
"Sorry to break it to you, but the scumteam is JT/Axel/Jack."-Diasgree
"I don’t feel any need to towncase CC. Right now I think he’s a misyeet scum need. I’ll read your posts about him again and marinate on it, though."-Disagree
"Are you going to post thoughts along with that list of events that happened?"-Diasgree
That all being said, I'm voting Crop Circles right now, not you. You say Crop Circles is town lean. Help me out on this one and expand.
Also @Vaimes, maybe you've changed but a lot of my concerns with your slot are based on meta you're exhibiting right now. I don't remember Vaimes or Goo, being particularly aggressive/arrogant and that's how I'm reading your slot right now, but like I said it could be an old meta I'm playing off too.
Okay but some of those points I don't believe in anymore, so it's silly to hold onto them and be like "no we don't agree!" And of course you're not gonna agree you're scum.
I did mention that I was feeling confident this game for no reason I can think of. Just riding the wave.
That all being said, I'm voting Crop Circles right now, not you. You say Crop Circles is town lean. Help me out on this one and expand.
Why are you voting for someone who's being defensive rather than the person you've disliked for literally the whole game, as you said? Seems weak.
CC just feels like a designated misyeet. I don't really have any specific townread on them, just that I think they're an easy wagon and easy wagons are rarely on mafia. The best I can do is that I got a similar vibe from Zionite - old mafia player making a return, but get scumread because their approach was from a different site meta.
Vaimes's catch on Jack is good, and I want Jack to explain that.
Silver - you would say that being kinda floaty/vague/low presence is your usual d1 town strategy? I seem to remember the exact opposite in Seasons - you were on the ball early game then as the game went on and you transitioned to only mobile posting (?) your quality of play plummeted
That all being said, I'm voting Crop Circles right now, not you. You say Crop Circles is town lean. Help me out on this one and expand.
Why are you voting for someone who's being defensive rather than the person you've disliked for literally the whole game, as you said? Seems weak.
CC just feels like a designated misyeet. I don't really have any specific townread on them, just that I think they're an easy wagon and easy wagons are rarely on mafia. The best I can do is that I got a similar vibe from Zionite - old mafia player making a return, but get scumread because their approach was from a different site meta.
Well, I kept hearing people say CC was a legend or referring to them as a "Vet", so my expectations were high but when I actually read the posts, they seemed overly defensive. That's more of a scum tell to me than your arrogance or my disagreement with you on old stances.
Is it weird I feel like Proph is misremembering Seasons because I caught his wolf partner d1 off of a vague feeling and he's remembering that as me being "on the ball"
Maybe that means he's town though because I dunno if he would like, accuse me of not being on the ball after catching him on page one if that was what he was remembering
#justruminatingthings
vote: Terry
Hi Terry
Please say more words about me than "I have concerns" -- I may not be as high volume as usual but I have certainly posted things you could and should have thoughts on
Is it weird I feel like Proph is misremembering Seasons because I caught his wolf partner d1 off of a vague feeling and he's remembering that as me being "on the ball"
Maybe that means he's town though because I dunno if he would like, accuse me of not being on the ball after catching him on page one if that was what he was remembering
#justruminatingthings
vote: Terry
Hi Terry
Please say more words about me than "I have concerns" -- I may not be as high volume as usual but I have certainly posted things you could and should have thoughts on
Well up until your last two posts, most of your posts were directed questions and one liners with very little content. I get the mobile posting challenges, but one of my personal eye-brow raisers is asking directed questions to look busy and involved. You may be doing that as town or scum, but either way it leaves a bit to be desired.
Come on, Silver, you know deep down inside what I'm saying is true. You probably feel self-conscious about it and that's why you're voting me right now. You wish you've been posting a bit better but haven't got bitten by this game yet.
1) Why is the Terry pressure "meh"? So far it's just been me and Vaimes kind of side-eyeing him while he takes his sweet time catching up.
2) At the point you made this point, I /think/ the only person seriously pressuring Highroller was Jack, so what do you think of him?
3) Why does Silver feel vaguely town? Can you substantiate this with any posts of his that make you feel this way, or is this just gut coming from you?
4) What do you think of CropCircles? As far as I'm aware of the thread's been mostly Highroller laying it into ZDS, ZDS defending himself, and then trying to point people into voting someone he suspects (CC)
Terry had a couple posts I quite liked. First I liked his question to ZDS if the vote on me was RVS. It's more indicative for me than anyone else since I know I'm town, but with that knowledge I know it's not trying to gauge pressure on a buddy and I think the curiosity about a vote on a random townie is generally a good look. Second I liked his call out at Rod re ZDS.
Jack can die.
If I reread Silver's iso I could maybe come up with something but currently it's just gut. I even like his rainbow wall that I largely disagree with.
I have no strong opinions on CropCircles. It's a blindspot I should rectify.
Okay the long awaited Page 4 Takeaways...
-I actually really like High Roller's first post of this page HERE. It shows HR's looking for scum, even if I don't totally buy the ZDS case being made. I don't totally buy it because some of the things that he's accusing ZDS of can be done by town as well as scum. As town, I'll say stuff like "implied", when it was outright said.
Plenty of times I double check people's posts after my initial read and change my interpretation of it as town. It just seems like a bad argument when you get caught up on definitions of terms instead of the content. I don't know, it's not an entirely bad argument. See, I can fence sit even if I'm town!
-I also agree with ZDS' response. Could HR vs ZDS be TvT?
-At this point, I have to disagree with Jack's read on Vaimes. I think Vaimes is not town.
-I'm not sated with GF's posts, but at least there's some opinions
-Vaimes isn't scum with Highroller because of Bird Conflusion
-Jack's catch up is good. Thanks Jack
-Crop Circle's #192 seems defensive
-Proph's point in #198 regarding ZDS vs. CC is interesting
Page 5 Later...
Terry is town. But what in particular did you like about Jack's catch up? I was not impressed but also not offended.
Is it weird I feel like Proph is misremembering Seasons because I caught his wolf partner d1 off of a vague feeling and he's remembering that as me being "on the ball"
Maybe that means he's town though because I dunno if he would like, accuse me of not being on the ball after catching him on page one if that was what he was remembering
#justruminatingthings
vote: Terry
Hi Terry
Please say more words about me than "I have concerns" -- I may not be as high volume as usual but I have certainly posted things you could and should have thoughts on
Well up until your last two posts, most of your posts were directed questions and one liners with very little content. I get the mobile posting challenges, but one of my personal eye-brow raisers is asking directed questions to look busy and involved. You may be doing that as town or scum, but either way it leaves a bit to be desired.
Come on, Silver, you know deep down inside what I'm saying is true. You probably feel self-conscious about it and that's why you're voting me right now. You wish you've been posting a bit better but haven't got bitten by this game yet.
Terry is one of like, five people who has been on a wolf team with me on this site lol
Maybe he doesn't remember that but if he thought I had potential to be a slanking wolf it's weird he would defend himself by... pre-emptively making excuses for my activity?
It's just a garbled thought. He is asserting that you must feel self conscious about your activity and reflexively OMGUS'ing but that's his explanation for unexplained concerns that you had asked him to explain.
Unless I'm missing something he's accusing you of OMGUS'ing him for something he hadn't explained till this post?
I thought I was pretty clear. I think that the one liners and directed questions we saw from Silver for most of the game so far wasnt necessarily AI but that it left a lot to be desired.
I think Silver knows that and got a bit defensive and voted me. I’m not calling it an OMGUS because I never even said he was scum. Just that he wasn’t making anything easier for me in deciding his alignment. I think he has me lower on his tier list than I have him so OMGUS isn’t really a thing
Terry is one of like, five people who has been on a wolf team with me on this site lol
Maybe he doesn't remember that but if he thought I had potential to be a slanking wolf it's weird he would defend himself by... pre-emptively making excuses for my activity?
I don’t remember that far back. I don’t think you’re lurking but I think you were asking questions to look involved with out really analyzing which could be because you are scum or because you are town and mobile posting and it’s hard to do much more than that from a phone or some combination of the two. I’m not making excuses for you I’m saying you are on my watch list
When people won't vote for ZDS despite the every single post he's made being either:
1. Completely wrong
2. Repeating something someone else has said
3. Refusing to address criticism against a post or posts that are either wrong or something someone else has said
For comparison you didn't particularly express concerns about me and I've subjectively been even lazier than Silver this game. So why was I not singled out as on your watch list for that?
Also @Vaimes, maybe you've changed but a lot of my concerns with your slot are based on meta you're exhibiting right now. I don't remember Vaimes or Goo, being particularly aggressive/arrogant and that's how I'm reading your slot right now, but like I said it could be an old meta I'm playing off too.
I think this meta is incorrect. Also, I think it's a bad idea to try and use meta. At least like this.
When people won't vote for ZDS despite the every single post he's made being either:
1. Completely wrong
2. Repeating something someone else has said
3. Refusing to address criticism against a post or posts that are either wrong or something someone else has said
Do you have a number 2 suspect at this moment? (he says, still without having read back).
I still need to read back to follow what Highroller is saying about ZDS. He’s using so many words.[Axelrod goes to the beach]
Axelrod: The beach has so much ocean.
And sand. So much sand.
I was thinking Thursday was going to be a good time to dive in because I'm off work Thursday, but then I realized that's when Zendikar comes out online. Sooo I'll probably be playing a bunch of that. But after that.
Private Mod Note
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
The read of Proph sucking up to vets is funny because he is a vet, but also because that's his natural playstyle, reaching out and coordinating with people whose opinion he values and then trying to sort out who among them is trustworthy here.
You guys do realize that I made one post of just my initial thoughts and was immediately accused for it, right? Like if I seem defensive, maybe it's because I've had to defend myself.
The read of Proph sucking up to vets is funny because he is a vet, but also because that's his natural playstyle, reaching out and coordinating with people whose opinion he values and then trying to sort out who among them is trustworthy here.
Why are you saying "The read of Proph sucking up to vets" as though it's a misinterpretation of what happened? The dude called himself a Stan. (I'm not making a word of that up.)
You can't dispute it if he himself is readily acknowledging it.
I acknowledge that I sucked up to ZDS but I don't really recall sucking up to any other "vets". Not really sure why dkings says that I'm sucking up to CC for example when I'm trying to get CC to answer my questions/do anything that will let me get a better read on him
Will post more tomorrow and dissect JoeTerry's recent stuff; today got away from me.
The read of Proph sucking up to vets is funny because he is a vet, but also because that's his natural playstyle, reaching out and coordinating with people whose opinion he values and then trying to sort out who among them is trustworthy here.
Why are you saying "The read of Proph sucking up to vets" as though it's a misinterpretation of what happened? The dude called himself a Stan. (I'm not making a word of that up.)
You can't dispute it if he himself is readily acknowledging it.
I wasn't disputing the idea just that it's funny given Prophs playstyle. It's a good distillation i hadn't thought of before.
I agree with the existence of it just don't find it alignment indicative on its own.
For comparison you didn't particularly express concerns about me and I've subjectively been even lazier than Silver this game. So why was I not singled out as on your watch list for that?
FAKE NEWS!
I put you in the exact same sentence! Only Silver cared enough to ask!
"Silver and Grape just seem to be hugely underperforming. I have serious concerns about this."
(This is in reaction to Vaimes, but directed at everyone)
CropCircles as a designated misyeet does not make sense. His wagon has been moving much too slow for that to be the case. He is at most the designated not-me yeet (everyone voting him is either me or townreading me), which makes him the counter-wagon to the OG designated misyeet (me).
From there, two possibilities:
- CC is scum and his buddies have either given up on him or are struggling to get a counter-counter-wagon going.
- CC is town and scum are happy with the results no matter what happens.
Now, the above should make sense to people town-reading me. On the other hand to people scum-reading me, CC should be a martyr in the making.
All of his scum-reads are voting CropCircles, yet CropCircles is in his null-reads block (near the bottom, if that means something).
Even if I give him the benefit of doubt and assume those are all independent reads and he's not saying he believes the entire scum team is voting CC (and iirc he did say something along those lines in the past), I still cannot imagine how someone can see all their scumspects vote the same player yet not have a strong opinion on that player or on that situation.
FoS: Silvercrys
Explain yourself.
---
Dkings, Vaimes, Axel, Grape: Either pick a side or put some effort in getting a third wagon going, don't stand there pretending to do something.
What exactly does "put some effort" mean? Should I end all of my posts with VOTE JACKRITO?
I've laid out why I'm scumreading Jack, he has yet to explain his blatantly false read on me, and aside from a couple of "oh yeah that's weird" reactions people seem largely uninterested.
I don't think wagon speed means anything. Why do you think it means anything? This has been a pretty slow Day 1 all around, and if CC is a villager that's getting heat scum don't even really have to do anything [if they aren't the ones driving it].
1) Why do you think that Silver's post 20 is forced as opposed to him poking at something to end RVS?
2) What exactly do you mean when you say that I'm thinking along the same lines as yourself? Do you mind highlighting exactly what types of sentiments I am expressing that you agree with? You're townreading me and saying that you like most of my posts but you don't really dive into specifics.
3) Do you think that Rodemy is skating through with his posting restriction so he can evade suspicion?
4) How in the world is Jack's catch up "good"? I want you to substantiate this in more detail. I found a fair number of problems with his catchup.
Trying to ruminate (thanks Silver, this is a good word) if scum!JT goes after town!Vaimes when the majority of the playerbase is townreading Vaimes at this point.
Other than that, my biggest issue with JT is that his catchup reminds me of when I'm scum - where I give my thoughts on a bunch of events that have happened ITT and give out my reads, but I don't end up being very inquisitive. It feels like he's playing it fairly safe so far outside of the hate on Vaimes which I'm trying to whirl around in my head if he would do as scum?
And I'm probably misremembering Seasons because I replaced into that game when the game was at like 1.6k posts and then the thread ballooned to 2.8k posts before I "caught up"
Quote from JoeTerry »
Come on, Silver, you know deep down inside what I'm saying is true. You probably feel self-conscious about it and that's why you're voting me right now. You wish you've been posting a bit better but haven't got bitten by this game yet.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Terry had a couple posts I quite liked. First I liked his question to ZDS if the vote on me was RVS. It's more indicative for me than anyone else since I know I'm town, but with that knowledge I know it's not trying to gauge pressure on a buddy and I think the curiosity about a vote on a random townie is generally a good look. Second I liked his call out at Rod re ZDS.
Can you expand on why exactly you liked his call out at Rodemy wrt ZDS's alignment, especially when JT didn't provide much reasoning in that post to indicate why he thought ZDS was town?
Quote from Grapefruit »
If I reread Silver's iso I could maybe come up with something but currently it's just gut. I even like his rainbow wall that I largely disagree with.
Given that you said "I can die" and that he has Highroller as town, what exactly do you disagree with? Is it just his positioning on JT and ZDS? I see Silver shifted your read on JT a bit
Quote from Grapefruit »
I have no strong opinions on CropCircles. It's a blindspot I should rectify.
Please do, given that he is the largest wagon atm and has like 10 very short posts.
Currently rereading, but it is late. Will compile my thoughts tomorrow.
I am eagerly waiting for your thoughts.
------------------------------------
kinda fine with cc/jack wagons, really not sure why people are voting zds and i think there's a decent chance there's scum on that wagon (cc/rod/maaaybe silver?)
hottake is that if cc is scum, jt is bussing him
feels kinda weird that the two players that i'd like to interrogate most (jack/cc) have mostly been silent for the past 2-3 days or so
kinda side-eyeing rodemy for bringing up the same point from rvs continuously as a reason to pressure zds, and i'm not sure exactly why silver is voting ZDS (other than to consolidate wagons?) given that silver hasn't really engaged with ZDS past rvs
I gave up townreading people for blandly attacking me when I'm widely townread a long time ago. It's a reverse-psychology ploy: scum would NEVER scumread a widely townread player, would they? Yes, yes they would, and it happens to me a lot. There isn't anything to his points that makes me think he really believes them. It's just some ungodly conglomeration of "arrogance," "I disagree with everything he says," and "theatrics/useless posts."
Was just trying to put myself in the shoes of scum JT there and thought "would scum!JT really pick a fight with one of the more townread players in this game"
@ZDS:
There isn't anything to explain, I'm not going to town read him just because there's probably a wolf voting him -- there's probably a wolf voting you, too, because my wolf reads aren't all that strong and you could still be a villager
I'm just throwing darts at people who feel wolfy until we get flips lol
@Proph:
I'm voting ZDS because I'm still wolf reading him and it ties up the wagons, yes
I mainly just, don't believe he believes the things he is saying, is the short of it
For instance, now I'm suspicious for uh, not pushing a narrative that CropCircles must be town because a wolf is probably voting for him. At least I think that's what he's saying?
Like most of his posts don't... I can't get to the positions he claims without contorting my thought process massively, and my default is just kind of, "if it doesn't make sense, it's >rand wolf"
I acknowledge that I sucked up to ZDS but I don't really recall sucking up to any other "vets". Not really sure why dkings says that I'm sucking up to CC for example when I'm trying to get CC to answer my questions/do anything that will let me get a better read on him
You sucked up to me! Or just complemented my later game.
Dkings, Vaimes, Axel, Grape: Either pick a side or put some effort in getting a third wagon going, don't stand there pretending to do something.
I am not pretending to be doing anything. I am just "here" atm. Doing things will happen though.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I just want to say again that Proph "sucking up to vets" is a reason to scum read him is ludicrous. He is the most collabrative player I've ever had the pleasure to play with. Him trying to coordinate with people acknowledged as good players is exactly his MO regardless of alignment. And he's generally a nice guy so a bit of puffery isn't surprising because he values healthy game states.
@Terry fair enough that's what I get for not double checking. Read slightly upgraded again (town side of the unsure pile).
@Proph I just ISO'd CropCircles and I'm not moved in any direction. He's been under pressure since the jump and hasn't done much. I don't think ZDS is scum but his swing from calling the pile on suspicious to voting ZDS feels >rand to be town to me. This excerpt in particular felt like a townie thought.
The real difference here is that Proph put a target on half the players in the game for something that obviously isn't actually telling at all. It was clearly too early in the game to start lurker hunting as several of us hadn't even checked in. My accusation was against unjustified bandwagon votes, which is an accusation against just two players and is for a legitimate reason. As opposed to a meaningless accusation against half the town.
If I was going to vote someone atm it would be CC because his posts and stance on ZDS and how it changed are just not making sense to me. His responses to ZDS after his weird as hell vote also match more with the over defensiveness that I was referring to eariler unlike Highroller who looks like he is really scum hunting in his responses. CC looks scared and lost and just doing simple replies like a deer in the headlights. ZDS comes out way ahead in their exchange and considering how much I push ZDS early most games that takes some doing.
So I wanted to pull this out. To me it looks like a reason to town read CC here not scum read him. Jack doesn't point to what ZDS is doing differently this game, implying that much of the increased standing is due to Jack's increased familiarity with ZDS. If that's the case a little bit of further pushing should suggest that CC getting suspicious there is a natural and townie thing to do. As for the over defensiveness I again think that it's looking backwards to find things to push for. Jack is familiar with a lot of players who are defined by very defensive townplay so CC acting defensive under pressure on it's own shouldn't be an alarm bell.
The broader points all sound reasonable and flow into a cohesive idea but to me it's not a thought I would ever expect to come from town!Jack.
Prop is also a concern to me for the reasons just given so want others thoughts on him.
I would also not hate a vote on JT his posts are adding nothing to this game, but this also means I have nothing really to scum read him on either.
I'm good with Grape his posts are helpful at least and showing his thoughts. ahahahahahha I really want to scum read this because I have definitely not been showing my thoughts much at all. That said as much as it could be scum just going along with me not being under pressure, it could just as easily be town trusting the consensus.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
This section on ZDS highlights how fake the CC part feels.
Axel can be town because being proactive and I like his posts. Same thing as the section on me.
I like how Silver is sharing my paranoia in Prop and is pushing it still and has good engagnments in thread I think he would be in my top 3 town with Vaimes and Highroller.
Rod is still town to me, even for the dumb reason I don't think he plays this way as scum, but like always I just keep Rod to the side and see what happens since I have not seen him as scum yet and this feels like normal him.
Vaimes and Highroller are both town for me for reasons given.
So much for not deep diving till tomorrow.
And a question what about the way Rod is playing makes you think he's not scum? What specifically about his approach?
Silver: so uhh, you don't agree/understand the central premise of zds's argument? (that cropcircles is a bad guy and deserves to be looked into more)
again, the intentionally vague thing makes it hard to figure out exactly what you're thinking, but do you have any thoughts on CC's 10 or so posts thus far? i see you have him as a null read but i don't recall you talking about him, skimming through your ISO
Quote from Axelrod »
You sucked up to me! Or just complemented my later game.
1) Why do you think that Silver's post 20 is forced as opposed to him poking at something to end RVS?
2) What exactly do you mean when you say that I'm thinking along the same lines as yourself? Do you mind highlighting exactly what types of sentiments I am expressing that you agree with? You're townreading me and saying that you like most of my posts but you don't really dive into specifics.
3) Do you think that Rodemy is skating through with his posting restriction so he can evade suspicion?
4) How in the world is Jack's catch up "good"? I want you to substantiate this in more detail. I found a fair number of problems with his catchup.
Trying to ruminate (thanks Silver, this is a good word) if scum!JT goes after town!Vaimes when the majority of the playerbase is townreading Vaimes at this point.
Other than that, my biggest issue with JT is that his catchup reminds me of when I'm scum - where I give my thoughts on a bunch of events that have happened ITT and give out my reads, but I don't end up being very inquisitive. It feels like he's playing it fairly safe so far outside of the hate on Vaimes which I'm trying to whirl around in my head if he would do as scum?
1) Ok, first off it's post 20, are you really diving that deep? That being said, I didn't feel drawing a distinction between Highroller's claim and Rod's justified a vote on ZDS, which he straight up says was to end RVS, which could be interpreted as forcing.
2) a) Not being sure about the seriousness of ZDS' first "real" vote and not knowing the flavor
b) "Vote Crop Circles" "His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post." Pretty much that whole post
c) "Would you say that this behavior is par for the course for town!Highroller? The way I'm looking at him at the moment is that his posts are like, kinda "bad" but I don't thiiiiiiiiiink I see any maliciousness? I understand that Vaimes voted him for that word confetti but I actually kind of liked it because it felt like something he believed in.
I don't know Highroller super well but my gut tells me that vote for me would have manifested a little differently if he was scum?" - Agree
d) This Post #130
e) Pretty much all your posts RE: CC v. ZDS
f) In general, I follow most of your posts and think they are well-intended despite disagreeing with you on a few points, like Vaimes
3) I haven't figured out Rod's intent yet, but it's making it more difficult for me to do so. Just like all fake PRs he'll drop it eventually when it matters, but if it continues too long I will have additional things to say about it.
4) Jack's catch up looks like he's analyzing the game. You don't have to agree with him but you could at least see that he's looking critically at the game.
Hope that helps, I doubt it will because you already seem like you're tunneled. It's almost a sure thing that anyone who posts anything substantial like I did to catch up, will be attacked because it's content, content that people can like or dislike. You can like or dislike what I said, but I'm putting myself out there and giving my thoughts, I'm not hiding. I literally do this almost every game I play in and every time I get heat for it as either alignment. It's not because I'm bad at this game or that I'm scummy, it's just content for people to pick at during an otherwise slowly moving game and I'm happy to provide the discourse.
Thanks Grape for the kind words. I always try to make collaboration the most important part of my playstyle, because I think it's more important to have the town communicate clearly and work together rather than focus too much on reads accuracy.
Points noted on CC, did not consider that. Can you answer the other two questions I had in that post? (what exactly you disagree on re Silver and why you liked JT's call out of Rodemy)
I see JT responded to me, I'll take a look at that after work hopefully
"The third wolf has now posted."-Diasgree
"Yeah, that's a scum vote.
Unvote, Vote Highroller" - Diasgree
"Sorry to break it to you, but the scumteam is JT/Axel/Jack."-Diasgree
"I don’t feel any need to towncase CC. Right now I think he’s a misyeet scum need. I’ll read your posts about him again and marinate on it, though."-Disagree
"Are you going to post thoughts along with that list of events that happened?"-Diasgree
That all being said, I'm voting Crop Circles right now, not you. You say Crop Circles is town lean. Help me out on this one and expand.
I did mention that I was feeling confident this game for no reason I can think of. Just riding the wave.
CC just feels like a designated misyeet. I don't really have any specific townread on them, just that I think they're an easy wagon and easy wagons are rarely on mafia. The best I can do is that I got a similar vibe from Zionite - old mafia player making a return, but get scumread because their approach was from a different site meta.
Also I am only mobile posting right now lol
Highroller
Vaimes
Rodemy?
Axelrod
Grapefruit
Dkingsland
CropCircles
Jackrito
ZDS
Terry
Proph
is roughly where I'm at
Maybe that means he's town though because I dunno if he would like, accuse me of not being on the ball after catching him on page one if that was what he was remembering
#justruminatingthings
vote: Terry
Hi Terry
Please say more words about me than "I have concerns" -- I may not be as high volume as usual but I have certainly posted things you could and should have thoughts on
Come on, Silver, you know deep down inside what I'm saying is true. You probably feel self-conscious about it and that's why you're voting me right now. You wish you've been posting a bit better but haven't got bitten by this game yet.
Terry had a couple posts I quite liked. First I liked his question to ZDS if the vote on me was RVS. It's more indicative for me than anyone else since I know I'm town, but with that knowledge I know it's not trying to gauge pressure on a buddy and I think the curiosity about a vote on a random townie is generally a good look. Second I liked his call out at Rod re ZDS.
Jack can die.
If I reread Silver's iso I could maybe come up with something but currently it's just gut. I even like his rainbow wall that I largely disagree with.
I have no strong opinions on CropCircles. It's a blindspot I should rectify.
Terry is town. But what in particular did you like about Jack's catch up? I was not impressed but also not offended.
Why Terry so low?
Unvote: DK
"fun" fact until this game I had read DK's name as DKisland.
Maybe he doesn't remember that but if he thought I had potential to be a slanking wolf it's weird he would defend himself by... pre-emptively making excuses for my activity?
Unless I'm missing something he's accusing you of OMGUS'ing him for something he hadn't explained till this post?
I think Silver knows that and got a bit defensive and voted me. I’m not calling it an OMGUS because I never even said he was scum. Just that he wasn’t making anything easier for me in deciding his alignment. I think he has me lower on his tier list than I have him so OMGUS isn’t really a thing
1. Completely wrong
2. Repeating something someone else has said
3. Refusing to address criticism against a post or posts that are either wrong or something someone else has said
[Axelrod goes to the beach]
Axelrod: The beach has so much ocean.
Wait, are you serious? You've spent a good chunk of the game sucking up to vets, dude. You've even acknowledged it.
Do you have a number 2 suspect at this moment? (he says, still without having read back).
And sand. So much sand.
I was thinking Thursday was going to be a good time to dive in because I'm off work Thursday, but then I realized that's when Zendikar comes out online. Sooo I'll probably be playing a bunch of that. But after that.
Anyway I'm very convinced that HR/ZDS is town/town. You can all try to kill me later when I'm proven correct.
The read of Proph sucking up to vets is funny because he is a vet, but also because that's his natural playstyle, reaching out and coordinating with people whose opinion he values and then trying to sort out who among them is trustworthy here.
You can't dispute it if he himself is readily acknowledging it.
Will post more tomorrow and dissect JoeTerry's recent stuff; today got away from me.
Not disagreeing with the sentiment, just saying.
Currently rereading, but it is late. Will compile my thoughts tomorrow.
I wasn't disputing the idea just that it's funny given Prophs playstyle. It's a good distillation i hadn't thought of before.
I agree with the existence of it just don't find it alignment indicative on its own.
CropCircles42 (4): ZeDorkSlipeur, Prophylaxis, Jackrito, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
ZeDorkSlipeur (3): Rodemy, CropCircles42, Highroller
Prophylaxis (1): Dkingsland967
Jackrito (1): Vaimes
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Silvercrys3467
Not voting: Axelrod, Grapefruit21
I put you in the exact same sentence! Only Silver cared enough to ask!
"Silver and Grape just seem to be hugely underperforming. I have serious concerns about this."
CropCircles as a designated misyeet does not make sense. His wagon has been moving much too slow for that to be the case. He is at most the designated not-me yeet (everyone voting him is either me or townreading me), which makes him the counter-wagon to the OG designated misyeet (me).
From there, two possibilities:
- CC is scum and his buddies have either given up on him or are struggling to get a counter-counter-wagon going.
- CC is town and scum are happy with the results no matter what happens.
Now, the above should make sense to people town-reading me. On the other hand to people scum-reading me, CC should be a martyr in the making.
Which brings me to Silvercrys:
All of his scum-reads are voting CropCircles, yet CropCircles is in his null-reads block (near the bottom, if that means something).
Even if I give him the benefit of doubt and assume those are all independent reads and he's not saying he believes the entire scum team is voting CC (and iirc he did say something along those lines in the past), I still cannot imagine how someone can see all their scumspects vote the same player yet not have a strong opinion on that player or on that situation.
FoS: Silvercrys
Explain yourself.
---
Dkings, Vaimes, Axel, Grape: Either pick a side or put some effort in getting a third wagon going, don't stand there pretending to do something.
I've laid out why I'm scumreading Jack, he has yet to explain his blatantly false read on me, and aside from a couple of "oh yeah that's weird" reactions people seem largely uninterested.
I don't think wagon speed means anything. Why do you think it means anything? This has been a pretty slow Day 1 all around, and if CC is a villager that's getting heat scum don't even really have to do anything [if they aren't the ones driving it].
1) Why do you think that Silver's post 20 is forced as opposed to him poking at something to end RVS?
2) What exactly do you mean when you say that I'm thinking along the same lines as yourself? Do you mind highlighting exactly what types of sentiments I am expressing that you agree with? You're townreading me and saying that you like most of my posts but you don't really dive into specifics.
3) Do you think that Rodemy is skating through with his posting restriction so he can evade suspicion?
4) How in the world is Jack's catch up "good"? I want you to substantiate this in more detail. I found a fair number of problems with his catchup.
Trying to ruminate (thanks Silver, this is a good word) if scum!JT goes after town!Vaimes when the majority of the playerbase is townreading Vaimes at this point.
Other than that, my biggest issue with JT is that his catchup reminds me of when I'm scum - where I give my thoughts on a bunch of events that have happened ITT and give out my reads, but I don't end up being very inquisitive. It feels like he's playing it fairly safe so far outside of the hate on Vaimes which I'm trying to whirl around in my head if he would do as scum?
And I'm probably misremembering Seasons because I replaced into that game when the game was at like 1.6k posts and then the thread ballooned to 2.8k posts before I "caught up"
Can you expand on why exactly you liked his call out at Rodemy wrt ZDS's alignment, especially when JT didn't provide much reasoning in that post to indicate why he thought ZDS was town?
Given that you said "I can die" and that he has Highroller as town, what exactly do you disagree with? Is it just his positioning on JT and ZDS? I see Silver shifted your read on JT a bit
Please do, given that he is the largest wagon atm and has like 10 very short posts.
I am eagerly waiting for your thoughts.
------------------------------------
kinda fine with cc/jack wagons, really not sure why people are voting zds and i think there's a decent chance there's scum on that wagon (cc/rod/maaaybe silver?)
hottake is that if cc is scum, jt is bussing him
feels kinda weird that the two players that i'd like to interrogate most (jack/cc) have mostly been silent for the past 2-3 days or so
kinda side-eyeing rodemy for bringing up the same point from rvs continuously as a reason to pressure zds, and i'm not sure exactly why silver is voting ZDS (other than to consolidate wagons?) given that silver hasn't really engaged with ZDS past rvs
Was just trying to put myself in the shoes of scum JT there and thought "would scum!JT really pick a fight with one of the more townread players in this game"
There isn't anything to explain, I'm not going to town read him just because there's probably a wolf voting him -- there's probably a wolf voting you, too, because my wolf reads aren't all that strong and you could still be a villager
I'm just throwing darts at people who feel wolfy until we get flips lol
@Proph:
I'm voting ZDS because I'm still wolf reading him and it ties up the wagons, yes
(also mods, is deadline friday?)
For instance, now I'm suspicious for uh, not pushing a narrative that CropCircles must be town because a wolf is probably voting for him. At least I think that's what he's saying?
Like most of his posts don't... I can't get to the positions he claims without contorting my thought process massively, and my default is just kind of, "if it doesn't make sense, it's >rand wolf"
@Terry fair enough that's what I get for not double checking. Read slightly upgraded again (town side of the unsure pile).
@Proph I just ISO'd CropCircles and I'm not moved in any direction. He's been under pressure since the jump and hasn't done much. I don't think ZDS is scum but his swing from calling the pile on suspicious to voting ZDS feels >rand to be town to me. This excerpt in particular felt like a townie thought.
So I wanted to pull this out. To me it looks like a reason to town read CC here not scum read him. Jack doesn't point to what ZDS is doing differently this game, implying that much of the increased standing is due to Jack's increased familiarity with ZDS. If that's the case a little bit of further pushing should suggest that CC getting suspicious there is a natural and townie thing to do. As for the over defensiveness I again think that it's looking backwards to find things to push for. Jack is familiar with a lot of players who are defined by very defensive townplay so CC acting defensive under pressure on it's own shouldn't be an alarm bell.
The broader points all sound reasonable and flow into a cohesive idea but to me it's not a thought I would ever expect to come from town!Jack.
This section on ZDS highlights how fake the CC part feels.
And a question what about the way Rod is playing makes you think he's not scum? What specifically about his approach?
again, the intentionally vague thing makes it hard to figure out exactly what you're thinking, but do you have any thoughts on CC's 10 or so posts thus far? i see you have him as a null read but i don't recall you talking about him, skimming through your ISO
2) a) Not being sure about the seriousness of ZDS' first "real" vote and not knowing the flavor
b) "Vote Crop Circles" "His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post." Pretty much that whole post
c) "Would you say that this behavior is par for the course for town!Highroller? The way I'm looking at him at the moment is that his posts are like, kinda "bad" but I don't thiiiiiiiiiink I see any maliciousness? I understand that Vaimes voted him for that word confetti but I actually kind of liked it because it felt like something he believed in.
I don't know Highroller super well but my gut tells me that vote for me would have manifested a little differently if he was scum?" - Agree
d) This Post #130
e) Pretty much all your posts RE: CC v. ZDS
f) In general, I follow most of your posts and think they are well-intended despite disagreeing with you on a few points, like Vaimes
3) I haven't figured out Rod's intent yet, but it's making it more difficult for me to do so. Just like all fake PRs he'll drop it eventually when it matters, but if it continues too long I will have additional things to say about it.
4) Jack's catch up looks like he's analyzing the game. You don't have to agree with him but you could at least see that he's looking critically at the game.
Hope that helps, I doubt it will because you already seem like you're tunneled. It's almost a sure thing that anyone who posts anything substantial like I did to catch up, will be attacked because it's content, content that people can like or dislike. You can like or dislike what I said, but I'm putting myself out there and giving my thoughts, I'm not hiding. I literally do this almost every game I play in and every time I get heat for it as either alignment. It's not because I'm bad at this game or that I'm scummy, it's just content for people to pick at during an otherwise slowly moving game and I'm happy to provide the discourse.
Points noted on CC, did not consider that. Can you answer the other two questions I had in that post? (what exactly you disagree on re Silver and why you liked JT's call out of Rodemy)
I see JT responded to me, I'll take a look at that after work hopefully