This game is slow as a snail during a heatwave by the standards of any MTGS era.
Well it was my understanding that things had slowed down considerably here so I didn't expect there to be over a page of posts the first time I checked in.
These are vague and safe non-stances ("the early pile on ZDS was a bit unwarranted", "not a fan of Prophylaxis calling attention to low posters so early"), which he turns into potential votes later on ("subsequently a bit sus", "planting seeds early to justify votes later").
How are they vague? Or non-stances? People did things that I saw as suspect. I called them out as suspect. Seems pretty concise to me.
And no the irony of accusing him of doing what he's accusing Proph of doing is not lost on me. But there's my second issue with this post: whereas Proph is experimenting by looking for lurkers too early and is ******* up as a result, CC hides carefully in a dark corner and seems to mostly focus on not ******* up. To bring back the digestive track, Proph had guts, CC has none.
The real difference here is that Proph put a target on half the players in the game for something that obviously isn't actually telling at all. It was clearly too early in the game to start lurker hunting as several of us hadn't even checked in. My accusation was against unjustified bandwagon votes, which is an accusation against just two players and is for a legitimate reason. As opposed to a meaningless accusation against half the town.
It may only be a single post but it's far more worth pursuing than any of the current wagons IMO.
Since when do you trust me from the getgo? Who are you?
I normally trust you early because you have a good early game as either side, its your midgame where you tend to get a bit lazy is where I start to have issues.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
YOUR CALLING OF NAMES HAS ME MIFFED
AT LEAST I’M NOT POSTING ONLY GIFS
I’LL SEE YOU AT DAWN, I CHALLENGE YOUR NAME
what... no death battles? THATS LAME
IM UNSURE ON YOUR VOTE AND REASON
IS THIS A VOTE FROM SCUM THIS SEASON?
My reason is same as Vaimes if you scumread me for it push me by all means. Dont do light shade with no intent.
I normally trust you early because you have a good early game as either side, its your midgame where you tend to get a bit lazy is where I start to have issues.
I distinctly remember you not wanting to trust me early on after my Lagoon scumgame.
Here's a bold stance. Neither Rod's nor Highroller's "claims" are suspicious, nor are they clearing in any way. I still kind of like them.
Yes, I am that good.
Proph even mentioning "lurkers" before we're barely a day in is probably not something scum does.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Yeah, nevermind, I'm going to vote Prophylaxis . I told myself before the game started that I would vote for the first blatantly tryhard post trying to get a town lynched based on logic that made no sense whatsoever, and Prophylaxis' post was one of the biggest examples of this I've ever seen. Gonna stick with my guns.
None of this was needed. It's just scum tossing out word confetti.
Side note: Highroller's formatting works for me but no thim because I'm a villager. QED.
Nowhere does he mention inconsistency of mindset. His vote for me was for alleged "word confetti" when I voted Prophylaxis.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
I normally trust you early because you have a good early game as either side, its your midgame where you tend to get a bit lazy is where I start to have issues.
My dude, the thread is less than three pages long. You can read it on your own and post your own thoughts.
@Grape do you expect Highroll to be doing something else as scum rather than try to mimic is townplay?
Well no but if he's in his town!range I'm going to need something convincing to start suspecting him. As for the points I'm about to quote back to HR, he's not someone where word confetti is a worry for me. Now if we get continued wishy-washy-ness then I might start to worry but ehhhhhh. He's okay-ish. Really everyone is just okay-ish right now. The only thing that is sticking out at all is people jumping on wagons but like trying to break RVS is definitely a thing.
@Highroller I know you are often a very literal person but in your quote claiming Vaimes didn't mention inconsistency of mindset he said: "Then he changed his mind, which would've been perfectly fine and natural on its own" and "But it wasn't just that. We also got a lot of blah blah blah".
His point isn't the word confetti alone or the change of mind alone. It's the combination of the two together.
@Highroller I know you are often a very literal person but in your quote claiming Vaimes didn't mention inconsistency of mindset he said: "Then he changed his mind, which would've been perfectly fine and natural on its own" and "But it wasn't just that. We also got a lot of blah blah blah".
His point isn't the word confetti alone or the change of mind alone. It's the combination of the two together.
"Here's one instance in which Highroller changed his mind" is not "there are too many inconsistencies," Grapefruit21.
There's being overly literal, and then there's understanding what a person is saying. Name any instance in Vaimes' posts in which he has stated anything along the lines of "too many inconsistencies," and I'll happily unvote ZDS. Except you won't be able to find it, because it never happened.
To announce "I'm jumping on the bandwagon because I agree with what Vaimes said!" when Vaimes never actually said that is an obvious red flag.
Plus, here's another thing that bothers me: why even post that at all? By which I mean,
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
11. Highroller: Too many inconsistencies in his mindset, like Vaimes pointed out.
why not just say, "Too many inconsistencies in his mindset"? Why bring up Vaimes in the first place?
Do you think giving a reason that doesn't actually exist is indicative of scum?
Because I believe you did that when you said Proph was giving bad reasons to kill a villager. Rounding up the names of low posters and saying "there's probably some scum in this list" is not the same thing.
Do you think giving a reason that doesn't actually exist is indicative of scum?
Because I believe you did that when you said Proph was giving bad reasons to kill a villager. Rounding up the names of low posters and saying "there's probably some scum in this list" is not the same thing.
Dude, he said there were 1-2 mafia within a list of the lowest posters when we weren't even 24 hours in on a game that began on a weeknight. There is zero logic in that.
Dude, he said there were 1-2 mafia within a list of the lowest posters when we weren't even 24 hours in on a game that began on a weeknight. There is zero logic in that.
Agreed there is zero logic but that's also not the same as actively trying to kill townies.
As for your point about ZDS turning Vaimes one mindset inconsistency into multiple, that might actually be something but it's not much. Like one major inconsistency can be too many for a read to form. *shrug*
If the end of day were in an hour I'd probably vote that if on one else was interested in DK but I don't really care to actively pursue it. Granted my DK read is super weak too but it's mine.
Imagine you're the kind of person who tries to argue, with a straight face, that an argument that someone is mafia is not an argument to lynch them... in a game that's all about lynching mafia.
My goodness, Grapefruit21, your level of credulity is as precious as a spider's web covered in the dew of a morning rain. I shall say no more for fear of damaging it.
Do you think giving a reason that doesn't actually exist is indicative of scum?
Because I believe you did that when you said Proph was giving bad reasons to kill a villager. Rounding up the names of low posters and saying "there's probably some scum in this list" is not the same thing.
Arguing someone is mafia is arguing that person should be lynched when you're playing a game in which the thing you do as town is try to lynch mafia.
Like, it seems like you're trying to argue something like "oh no, it was only unintentionally trying to cast suspicion on a broad group of people for absolutely inscrutable reasons," but I don't know what that accomplishes for you.
Agreed there is zero logic but that's also not the same as actively trying to kill townies.
See above.
As for your point about ZDS turning Vaimes one mindset inconsistency into multiple, that might actually be something but it's not much.
As I said before, there's a difference between reading something too literally and understanding what a person is saying.
Like, if you're going to spend more time and effort nitpicking someone for voting someone who blatantly bandwagons, with their stated rationale being that they agree with someone's argument - when that person, and I will stress this again, never made any argument of that sort - than you spend nitpicking the person who actually did the bandwagoning, then I don't know what to tell you.
After criticising my wagon, CropCircles42 decided to OMGUS vote me and be the unarguably worst vote on my wagon. That makes perfect sense (it doesn't). It feels good to find scum this early.
CC42 1) Do you have anything new to say? You completely ignored every post not directed at you.
@Rodemy I'm town-reading you. Am I difficult to understand? "It's a pointlessly risky play if he's scum" implies I think you are town. (See also the earlier post where I called you town.)
@Highroller See Grape's response, whether you like it or not. I apologise for not considering all the possible implications of the sentence I used. Re: bringing up Vaimes, I did because he had good arguments.
@Vaimes Is Axel any different than his usual strolling-and-being-useless-early-on self?
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You people should pay attention to CC42. He's obvscum.
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I don't know what's my votecount so I'll get my claim out of the way: I'm Turtle and I'm vanilla.
Back after a long day and responding to stuff; if anyone wants to real time lmk.
@Highroller - don't really want to make this a quote war since I think that's bad for health of the game, but here are some responses.
Quote from Highroller »
Which makes it evident that you are not a random generic, and since I am one, I think that merits FOS.. It's not that hard.
I guess this is fair, but what did you expect the roles of this game to be? Everyone being a random generic?
Quote from Highroller »
Well that's bullcrap.
First of all, every game on this site has a period of nonsense voting at the start, especially on page one of day one.
Second, the game started in the evening on a Tuesday and it's not even been 24 hours. Calling out low posters is fundamentally ridiculous.
So? I suppose I'm digressing into theory discussion a little bit, but in RVS people have their role PMs. Every post they make means they know their role.
I've caught as well as cleared people from their first RVS post before (think Lastwhisper in Matter Mafia was the most memorable instance of this happening this year, where he interpreted a joke as serious and immediately got ran up).
And for the 1000th time, I was not trying to shade people who hadn't posted a whole lot in the first 17 hours of the game. It was a pointless little theory/thought experiment that I wanted to test out after seeing that it was somewhat successful in my last game I played.
Quote from Highroller »
That and his behavior rubs me as off.
Can you elaborate exactly what you find "off" about him? Granted I haven't read his posts in extraordinary detail but he seems what I expect from ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical.
Quote from Highroller »
Have you played no other games on this site?
The last couple of games I've played on this site have moved /very/ fast. Granted, I replaced into most of them, but it wouldn't shock me to open the game thread and see like 50+ new posts.
Quote from Highroller »
So, you're now admitting it's fundamentally ridiculous, but when I point out it's fundamentally ridiculous, that's wrong?
I literally even said in my post "it's probably simple probability" - yes I think it's ridiculous, but I just wanted to pop some bottles and laugh at myself postgame.
Initial thoughts: I think nothing of the supposed claims and posting restrictions, or whatever is going on there. I don't think anything can be gleaned from that. I think the early pile on ZDS was a bit unwarranted, and subsequently a bit sus. I'm also not a fan of of Prophylaxis calling attention to low posters so early. Seems like planting seeds early to justify votes later.
That's all I got for now.
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
I am generally milquetoast and aloof, yes. Any particular reason for asking this?
Quote from ZDS »
4. Prophylaxis: Low-hanging fruit? With a big question mark.
Heh, glad to see that I haven't changed in the 7 years since you've mentored me
Quote from Grapefruit »
Look at this guy actually reading the sign up thread/remembering it at all. Well that probably does change things.
As for which posts it was just the sort of action taking you quoted as "having fun with his restriction".
My hot take is that this is highroller as town. Feels exactly like the guy I've tunneled so many times.
Ehh, I still don't really understand how you can think dk's posts are "forceful", especially since you know that he decided to adopt that sort of dwarf-ish posting restriction before the game. I kind of like this from you, though?
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
If the end of day were in an hour I'd probably vote that if on one else was interested in DK but I don't really care to actively pursue it. Granted my DK read is super weak too but it's mine.
Feeeeeeels like scum Grape doesn't really express this sentiment?
Have I actually played with you as scum Grape? I know we were both town in one random MAL game a long time ago (I think I got daykilled or something). My memory is foggy since I essentially retired in 2018 or something.
Quote from Grapefruit »
@Proph not really. It's a tone read but basically he is just his normal claiming early, unconcerned about appearances self.
And yes it is. Sometimes I like colorful language. Makes me feel clever. Unfortunately it usually leads to people having no clue what I mean.
@ZDS which of Silvers takes do you find terrible?
Would you say that this behavior is par for the course for town!Highroller? The way I'm looking at him at the moment is that his posts are like, kinda "bad" but I don't thiiiiiiiiiink I see any maliciousness? I understand that Vaimes voted him for that word confetti but I actually kind of liked it because it felt like something he believed in.
I don't know Highroller super well but my gut tells me that vote for me would have manifested a little differently if he was scum?
After criticising my wagon, CropCircles42 decided to OMGUS vote me and be the unarguably worst vote on my wagon. That makes perfect sense (it doesn't). It feels good to find scum this early.
I like how you just ignore my points by focusing on the fact that I voted on you. You said I was taking a non-stance, when it was not a non-stance. It was a stance. Still not going to explain this inconsistency?
CC42 1) Do you have anything new to say? You completely ignored every post not directed at you.
Of course I prioritized questions directed at me. I don't know most the players here and I haven't really played in about a decade. So I'm largely just observing at the moment.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
Hi Jack.
1) Expand more on why you think that Vaimes is town? I feel pretty comfortable with him myself but I want to hear exactly why you think he's town.
2) What do you think of *me* so far? I understand that my early game entrance has been pretty divisive/polarized, but you basically said "you normally play differently than this".
3) Do you have.... uhh, more substantive thoughts on the game at present? There's a fair amount of content coming in and I find it a little odd you just zero'd in on being a Vaimes stan?
Quote from Silvercrys »
vote: Prophylaxis
This is not related to the "poppin bottles" theory
Hey Silver, want to talk about this? Is this solely related to the fact that I told Highroller to vote me while having an RVS vote on Vaimes, or is there more?
Rod's claim (that I saw) is gutsy despite scum having falseclaims because scum have no reason to claim an arguably bad character. In fact it is especially gutsy of him since scum have falseclaims and no reason whatsoever to claim someone bad. It's a pointlessly risky play if he's scum. (Of course all of this is moot if he wasn't trying to claim Hunter.)
You see, I'd normally agree with this line of logic, but I know that Rodemy duped me (and Voxx/Tarhalindur) in Apocalypse Mafia all the way back in like 2013/4 because IIRC he took super fatalistic lines to avoid suspicion. So I kind of don't want to just ignore Rodemy just because he's Rodemy if that makes sense? (Though to be fair I haven't really bothered to closely examine his roleplay)
I like ZDS's points on CropCircles. Consider me a ZDS stan at this point.
@CropCircles -
1) You said that people who voted ZDS are "suspicious" but you're super quick to vote ZDS as soon as he attacks you. Why do you think ZDS is scum, and what do you now make of the people who were voting him early?
2) Given you've said that you're mostly observing, are there any strong observations on the 130 posts there have been so far? Do you have any thoughts on any player not named ZDS or me?
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
Too early/small tell. It was things that caught my eye. Obviously I didn't think it was worth a vote, especially when I don't know if this behavior is typical or not.
His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
So I'm over defensive for responding to an accusation? Anything specific that you read as over defensive?
And the reason for my vote is that his justification for voting me doesn't make sense. The fact that he didn't respond to my counter points solidifies this feeling.
1) You said that people who voted ZDS are "suspicious" but you're super quick to vote ZDS as soon as he attacks you. Why do you think ZDS is scum, and what do you now make of the people who were voting him early?
It did look suspect, but it is not suspect if ZDS is scum. Which is the way I am currently leaning.
As for my reasons for voting ZDS, see above.
2) Given you've said that you're mostly observing, are there any strong observations on the 130 posts there have been so far? Do you have any thoughts on any player not named ZDS or me?
The reason why I think you're overdefensive is because you're concentrating on ZDS to the exclusion of everything else.
There's a fair amount happening in this game right now and you're just ignoring all of it and focusing on OMGUSing ZDS.
And I think that ZDS's reasoning makes a lot of sense. Your first post was pretty non-committal and I see nothing from you that tells me why you think ZDS is malicious. If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
I hate answering questions directed at other players, but this is some mafia terminology I know so I don't think it'll be too bad.
v means villager, which means town in mtgs terms
w means wolf, which means scum in mtgs terms
A "soulread" is when you feel it in your bones that someone else is town. You generally can't explain it in any way other than gut.
So when Vaimes says "Grape v soulread" he means something along the lines of "I feel it in my bones that Grape is town." Maybe others have a different definition of soulread but that's what I think it means?
@Highroller See Grape's response, whether you like it or not. I apologise for not considering all the possible implications of the sentence I used. Re: bringing up Vaimes, I did because he had good arguments.
Which you didn't cite, instead referencing an argument that was never made and doesn't exist.
Prophylaxis: Yeah, to avoid a quote war, I'm just going to say I see no point in continuing this discussion if you're willing to agree that discussing peoples' involvement after 17 hours is pointless.
Can you elaborate exactly what you find "off" about him? Granted I haven't read his posts in extraordinary detail but he seems what I expect from ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical.
I'm pretty sure that's what I've been doing, so I will refer you to my previous posts. I will disagree with you on the latter sentence.
With regards to CropCircles, I don't know who CropCircles is. You say, "back in the day," so I assume this is an alternate account of someone, but I have no clue who it is.
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
You are correct, that is useless to ask. He was pretty awesome and fun, that's about all I got.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@ZDS: I am wondering - if you thought that Rod was claiming to be the "Hunter" as you said (also, dude, it's Huntsman, come on) - why did you quote this in answer to someone else asking you who you thought Rod was claiming:
FOR THIS DEER LOOKS TASTY, I SHALL EAT IT’S HEART!
Because, to me, that post did not appear to be you thinking Rod was claiming Huntsman, but you thinking that Rod was claiming evil Queen. The Huntsman didn't want to eat anyone's heart.
Interesting claim by Rodemy, and gutsy if he had any reason to believe flavour matters this game.
Why do you say "if he had any reason to believe 'flavour' matters", as though we weren't specifically told from the beginning that the scum have false claims in this game (which is a rather large reason to believe that flavour might matter).
Also, the Huntsman is not a bad character (at least in the story I've heard). So what makes it "gutsy" from Rod? I realize you said later that the Hunter was "arguably" a bad character, but that feels kind of like a ret-con to me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I admit CC's "obviously rushed early wagon is bad" and "super early lurker hunting is bad" are technically stances. So is "lynching town is bad". That's how shallow these are. I refuse to consider these actual stances. They are non-stances.
There is no value in defending these so-called stances, but I suppose CC42 litterally has nothing else .
@Proph:
Re: CC's meta: I don't remember well enough and besides, meta is a crapshoot after a long hiatus. People change. Case in point, this CC is a lot more sober and passive than the "legendary" CC.
Re: Milquetoastness: In #22 you looked like you were letting others test the waters to decide whether to join my wagon or to pocket me.
Re: Rodemy: . We'll see as the game goes. For the record I'm not townreading Rodemy "just because he's Rodemy".
Re: "ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical": Proactive, sure. The other two are a crapshoot .
@Highroller: I didn't cite because I wanted to be done quick (plus I'll need to check but iirc I posted between 5 and 6am). If I had cited I would have probably worded things differently as a result of re-reading Vaimes' post.
@Axelrod: I only know the story of Snow White in French, and I never watched the Disney version. The Huntsman (not Hunter, noted) was tasked with bringing back Snow White's heart, but instead fell in love with her/had pity for her (I don't remember exactly) and killed a deer to take its heart as replacement. Hence when Rodemy mentioned the deer and the heart, through idea association I thought of the Huntsman. Who is a bad character at the beginning, even if he becomes good afterwards (therefore Rhand could easily assign him to either alignment). As for "if he had any reason to believe flavour matters", I had my own role in mind (a random critter as far as I care) rather than the beginning posts.
Holy crap, everything in me is screaming "lynch this guy" right now.
I'll need to sleep on this.
Do you think ZDS and I are scumbuddies?
What do you think about CropCircles's posts thus far?
Quote from ZDS »
@Proph:
Re: CC's meta: I don't remember well enough and besides, meta is a crapshoot after a long hiatus. People change. Case in point, this CC is a lot more sober and passive than the "legendary" CC.
Re: Milquetoastness: In #22 you looked like you were letting others test the waters to decide whether to join my wagon or to pocket me.
Re: Rodemy: Shrugs . We'll see as the game goes. For the record I'm not townreading Rodemy "just because he's Rodemy".
Re: "ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical": Proactive, sure. The other two are a crapshoot .
I recall you were logical/well-thought out back in the day when you were criticizing various towns' performances in QuickTopics
Fair, I was just hoping to get some sort of baseline to evaluate CC.
Point taken on Rodemy, and wrt 22 I wanted to chime in and weigh in with my own opinion.
Walk me through your thought process on claiming this early? Did you really believe you were at L-2 with a vote count absent?
With regards to CropCircles, I don't know who CropCircles is. You say, "back in the day," so I assume this is an alternate account of someone, but I have no clue who it is.
My alt is CropCircles. I couldn't log back into it, so I created this one instead. I'm pretty sure we were in Sin City mafia together. And I think you ran the first game I played in. Granted that was like...before the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I admit CC's "obviously rushed early wagon is bad" and "super early lurker hunting is bad" are technically stances. So is "lynching town is bad". That's how shallow these are. I refuse to consider these actual stances. They are non-stances.
So they are stances except that they aren't stances. Got it.
Also "lynching town is bad" is not a tell. Bandwagoning and throwing broad accusations are. You're comparison does not hold up. You are clearly inventing reasons to vote for me.
@Highroller: I didn't cite because I wanted to be done quick (plus I'll need to check but iirc I posted between 5 and 6am). If I had cited I would have probably worded things differently as a result of re-reading Vaimes' post.
Yeah, no. You jumped on a bandwagon claiming that you were persuaded by an argument of Vaimes' that he never made. So obviously your rationale for voting me had nothing to do with what Vaimes said. When I've asked you to justify it, you've just said, "Look at what Grapefruit21 wrote." You STILL haven't justified it.
If you need Grapefruit21 to explain your argument for you, then you obviously don't know what it is, because you don't actually have one. You voted me to jump on a bandwagon, then tried to come up with an explanation to justify it after the fact, and it backfired. Vote stands.
ZDS: I'm jumping on the Highroller bandwagon based on that thing Vaimes said!
Highroller: Except Vaimes never actually said that thing, therefore you're clearly jumping on the bandwagon without any basis whatsoever, while trying to hide behind someone else. Care to comment?
ZDS: "See Grape's response" (actual wording by ZDS, I'm not making this up)
Prophylaxis: Highroller, I don't understand what problem you could possibly have with ZDS. All of his posts have been so well-reasoned and logical!
- I know I'm being pranked. Which of you is pranking me, I'm not sure, but I know I'm being pranked. This is a prank.
One thing is for certain, if ZDS were to flip town, I'd absolutely vote you first, because it would explain just so many things.
What do you think about CropCircles's posts thus far?
I haven't looked into him yet. Been rather preoccupied with you two lately.
With regards to CropCircles, I don't know who CropCircles is. You say, "back in the day," so I assume this is an alternate account of someone, but I have no clue who it is.
My alt is CropCircles. I couldn't log back into it, so I created this one instead. I'm pretty sure we were in Sin City mafia together.[/quote]I was definitely in Sin City mafia!
And I think you ran the first game I played in. Granted that was like...before the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Dear Axelrod,
Are you town? Don’t you dare lie to me. I will know if you lie.
I am! Glad we got that out of the way early.
I'm not going to be politically correct about this, that can be someone else's job,but Axelrod is town and I hereby present Axelrod with the Medal of Honor.
@Axelrod do you accept this Medal? Wear it proudly and know that I will always have your flank.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to get a bigger post in, but maybe can tonight. The game is only three pages long so I'm not feeling too pressed to get my hands dirty, but when I do, I'm going to build a wall between scum and town and make scum pay for it.
Are you actually town reading him?
Well it was my understanding that things had slowed down considerably here so I didn't expect there to be over a page of posts the first time I checked in.
How are they vague? Or non-stances? People did things that I saw as suspect. I called them out as suspect. Seems pretty concise to me.
The real difference here is that Proph put a target on half the players in the game for something that obviously isn't actually telling at all. It was clearly too early in the game to start lurker hunting as several of us hadn't even checked in. My accusation was against unjustified bandwagon votes, which is an accusation against just two players and is for a legitimate reason. As opposed to a meaningless accusation against half the town.
Disagree. [bold]Vote ZDS[/bold]
Vote ZDS
I normally trust you early because you have a good early game as either side, its your midgame where you tend to get a bit lazy is where I start to have issues.
My reason is same as Vaimes if you scumread me for it push me by all means. Dont do light shade with no intent.
This is a fairly slow start, but if we keep this pace throughout the phase I'd call it pretty high activity over all.
The him/Grape thing was a quick take I no longer believe in.
"I don't think as scum he'd be so sloppy about singling out lurkers so early in the game and he's going to be an easy wagon" is my read.
Yes, I am that good.
Proph even mentioning "lurkers" before we're barely a day in is probably not something scum does.
Vote ZDS
And then there's Jackrito who is clearly winning the "piggybacking off Vaimes" arms race by making two whole posts that are nothing but that.
Like, there's bandwagoning, and then there's openly admitting that you're not going to do anything but that.
My dude, the thread is less than three pages long. You can read it on your own and post your own thoughts.
Well no but if he's in his town!range I'm going to need something convincing to start suspecting him. As for the points I'm about to quote back to HR, he's not someone where word confetti is a worry for me. Now if we get continued wishy-washy-ness then I might start to worry but ehhhhhh. He's okay-ish. Really everyone is just okay-ish right now. The only thing that is sticking out at all is people jumping on wagons but like trying to break RVS is definitely a thing.
@Highroller I know you are often a very literal person but in your quote claiming Vaimes didn't mention inconsistency of mindset he said: "Then he changed his mind, which would've been perfectly fine and natural on its own" and "But it wasn't just that. We also got a lot of blah blah blah".
His point isn't the word confetti alone or the change of mind alone. It's the combination of the two together.
Unvote, vote Axelrod
There's being overly literal, and then there's understanding what a person is saying. Name any instance in Vaimes' posts in which he has stated anything along the lines of "too many inconsistencies," and I'll happily unvote ZDS. Except you won't be able to find it, because it never happened.
To announce "I'm jumping on the bandwagon because I agree with what Vaimes said!" when Vaimes never actually said that is an obvious red flag.
Plus, here's another thing that bothers me: why even post that at all? By which I mean,
why not just say, "Too many inconsistencies in his mindset"? Why bring up Vaimes in the first place?
If it's not hedging, what is it?
Because I believe you did that when you said Proph was giving bad reasons to kill a villager. Rounding up the names of low posters and saying "there's probably some scum in this list" is not the same thing.
Well you've now got your bases covered and can claim vindication either way!
Agreed there is zero logic but that's also not the same as actively trying to kill townies.
As for your point about ZDS turning Vaimes one mindset inconsistency into multiple, that might actually be something but it's not much. Like one major inconsistency can be too many for a read to form. *shrug*
If the end of day were in an hour I'd probably vote that if on one else was interested in DK but I don't really care to actively pursue it. Granted my DK read is super weak too but it's mine.
My goodness, Grapefruit21, your level of credulity is as precious as a spider's web covered in the dew of a morning rain. I shall say no more for fear of damaging it.
Are you town? Don’t you dare lie to me. I will know if you lie.
This is also a PTAP. I had a busy day and should be able to full post tomorrow afternoon.
Let me redo that:
Arguing someone is mafia is arguing that person should be lynched when you're playing a game in which the thing you do as town is try to lynch mafia.
Like, it seems like you're trying to argue something like "oh no, it was only unintentionally trying to cast suspicion on a broad group of people for absolutely inscrutable reasons," but I don't know what that accomplishes for you.
See above.
As I said before, there's a difference between reading something too literally and understanding what a person is saying.
Like, if you're going to spend more time and effort nitpicking someone for voting someone who blatantly bandwagons, with their stated rationale being that they agree with someone's argument - when that person, and I will stress this again, never made any argument of that sort - than you spend nitpicking the person who actually did the bandwagoning, then I don't know what to tell you.
CC42 1) Do you have anything new to say? You completely ignored every post not directed at you.
@Rodemy I'm town-reading you. Am I difficult to understand? "It's a pointlessly risky play if he's scum" implies I think you are town. (See also the earlier post where I called you town.)
@Highroller See Grape's response, whether you like it or not. I apologise for not considering all the possible implications of the sentence I used. Re: bringing up Vaimes, I did because he had good arguments.
@Vaimes Is Axel any different than his usual strolling-and-being-useless-early-on self?
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You people should pay attention to CC42. He's obvscum.
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I don't know what's my votecount so I'll get my claim out of the way: I'm Turtle and I'm vanilla.
@Highroller - don't really want to make this a quote war since I think that's bad for health of the game, but here are some responses.
I guess this is fair, but what did you expect the roles of this game to be? Everyone being a random generic?
So? I suppose I'm digressing into theory discussion a little bit, but in RVS people have their role PMs. Every post they make means they know their role.
I've caught as well as cleared people from their first RVS post before (think Lastwhisper in Matter Mafia was the most memorable instance of this happening this year, where he interpreted a joke as serious and immediately got ran up).
And for the 1000th time, I was not trying to shade people who hadn't posted a whole lot in the first 17 hours of the game. It was a pointless little theory/thought experiment that I wanted to test out after seeing that it was somewhat successful in my last game I played.
Can you elaborate exactly what you find "off" about him? Granted I haven't read his posts in extraordinary detail but he seems what I expect from ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical.
The last couple of games I've played on this site have moved /very/ fast. Granted, I replaced into most of them, but it wouldn't shock me to open the game thread and see like 50+ new posts.
I literally even said in my post "it's probably simple probability" - yes I think it's ridiculous, but I just wanted to pop some bottles and laugh at myself postgame.
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
Unvote
Vote CropCircles
Heh, glad to see that I haven't changed in the 7 years since you've mentored me
Ehh, I still don't really understand how you can think dk's posts are "forceful", especially since you know that he decided to adopt that sort of dwarf-ish posting restriction before the game. I kind of like this from you, though?
Feeeeeeels like scum Grape doesn't really express this sentiment?
Have I actually played with you as scum Grape? I know we were both town in one random MAL game a long time ago (I think I got daykilled or something). My memory is foggy since I essentially retired in 2018 or something.
Would you say that this behavior is par for the course for town!Highroller? The way I'm looking at him at the moment is that his posts are like, kinda "bad" but I don't thiiiiiiiiiink I see any maliciousness? I understand that Vaimes voted him for that word confetti but I actually kind of liked it because it felt like something he believed in.
I don't know Highroller super well but my gut tells me that vote for me would have manifested a little differently if he was scum?
I like how you just ignore my points by focusing on the fact that I voted on you. You said I was taking a non-stance, when it was not a non-stance. It was a stance. Still not going to explain this inconsistency?
Of course I prioritized questions directed at me. I don't know most the players here and I haven't really played in about a decade. So I'm largely just observing at the moment.
1) Expand more on why you think that Vaimes is town? I feel pretty comfortable with him myself but I want to hear exactly why you think he's town.
2) What do you think of *me* so far? I understand that my early game entrance has been pretty divisive/polarized, but you basically said "you normally play differently than this".
3) Do you have.... uhh, more substantive thoughts on the game at present? There's a fair amount of content coming in and I find it a little odd you just zero'd in on being a Vaimes stan?
Hey Silver, want to talk about this? Is this solely related to the fact that I told Highroller to vote me while having an RVS vote on Vaimes, or is there more?
I like ZDS's points on CropCircles. Consider me a ZDS stan at this point.
@CropCircles -
1) You said that people who voted ZDS are "suspicious" but you're super quick to vote ZDS as soon as he attacks you. Why do you think ZDS is scum, and what do you now make of the people who were voting him early?
2) Given you've said that you're mostly observing, are there any strong observations on the 130 posts there have been so far? Do you have any thoughts on any player not named ZDS or me?
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just to not spam this thread with multiposts i'm just gonna leave with a general stance of how i feel about everyone atm
v: zds, vaimes, gf, highroller (?)
?: silver, rodemy, jack, dk, axel, jt
w?: cropcircles
Too early/small tell. It was things that caught my eye. Obviously I didn't think it was worth a vote, especially when I don't know if this behavior is typical or not.
So I'm over defensive for responding to an accusation? Anything specific that you read as over defensive?
And the reason for my vote is that his justification for voting me doesn't make sense. The fact that he didn't respond to my counter points solidifies this feeling.
Rude.
It did look suspect, but it is not suspect if ZDS is scum. Which is the way I am currently leaning.
As for my reasons for voting ZDS, see above.
Not really.
There's a fair amount happening in this game right now and you're just ignoring all of it and focusing on OMGUSing ZDS.
And I think that ZDS's reasoning makes a lot of sense. Your first post was pretty non-committal and I see nothing from you that tells me why you think ZDS is malicious. If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
ZeDorkSlipeur (3): Rodemy, CropCircles42, Highroller
Prophylaxis (2): Dkingsland967, Silvercrys3467
CropCircles42 (2): ZeDorkSlipeur, Prophylaxis
dkingsland (1): Grapefruit21
Axelrod (1): Vaimes
Highroller (1): Jackrito
Not voting: Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
v means villager, which means town in mtgs terms
w means wolf, which means scum in mtgs terms
A "soulread" is when you feel it in your bones that someone else is town. You generally can't explain it in any way other than gut.
So when Vaimes says "Grape v soulread" he means something along the lines of "I feel it in my bones that Grape is town." Maybe others have a different definition of soulread but that's what I think it means?
Prophylaxis: Yeah, to avoid a quote war, I'm just going to say I see no point in continuing this discussion if you're willing to agree that discussing peoples' involvement after 17 hours is pointless.
I'm pretty sure that's what I've been doing, so I will refer you to my previous posts. I will disagree with you on the latter sentence.
With regards to CropCircles, I don't know who CropCircles is. You say, "back in the day," so I assume this is an alternate account of someone, but I have no clue who it is.
He's just not the type of player I am very interested in lynching day 1, though I suppose this game is full of incredible players
And okay, just thought that since you played mafia in the old days when I was like 7, you were familiar with him
Holy crap, everything in me is screaming "lynch this guy" right now.
I'll need to sleep on this.
Seems premature.
You are correct, that is useless to ask. He was pretty awesome and fun, that's about all I got.
@ZDS: I am wondering - if you thought that Rod was claiming to be the "Hunter" as you said (also, dude, it's Huntsman, come on) - why did you quote this in answer to someone else asking you who you thought Rod was claiming: Because, to me, that post did not appear to be you thinking Rod was claiming Huntsman, but you thinking that Rod was claiming evil Queen. The Huntsman didn't want to eat anyone's heart.
Also, when you said this:
Why do you say "if he had any reason to believe 'flavour' matters", as though we weren't specifically told from the beginning that the scum have false claims in this game (which is a rather large reason to believe that flavour might matter).
Also, the Huntsman is not a bad character (at least in the story I've heard). So what makes it "gutsy" from Rod? I realize you said later that the Hunter was "arguably" a bad character, but that feels kind of like a ret-con to me.
IS POINTLESS, WHY SAY IT, EXCEPT IF YER SCUM
TRYING TO SEEM TOWN AND TRICK US ALL
DOES ANYONE WANT SOME MEAD? YALL?
Today is my daughter's third birthday so I probably won't be able to dig back in until Sunday
There is no value in defending these so-called stances, but I suppose CC42 litterally has nothing else .
@Proph:
Re: CC's meta: I don't remember well enough and besides, meta is a crapshoot after a long hiatus. People change. Case in point, this CC is a lot more sober and passive than the "legendary" CC.
Re: Milquetoastness: In #22 you looked like you were letting others test the waters to decide whether to join my wagon or to pocket me.
Re: Rodemy: . We'll see as the game goes. For the record I'm not townreading Rodemy "just because he's Rodemy".
Re: "ZDS - proactive, well-thought out, logical": Proactive, sure. The other two are a crapshoot .
@Highroller: I didn't cite because I wanted to be done quick (plus I'll need to check but iirc I posted between 5 and 6am). If I had cited I would have probably worded things differently as a result of re-reading Vaimes' post.
@Axelrod: I only know the story of Snow White in French, and I never watched the Disney version. The Huntsman (not Hunter, noted) was tasked with bringing back Snow White's heart, but instead fell in love with her/had pity for her (I don't remember exactly) and killed a deer to take its heart as replacement. Hence when Rodemy mentioned the deer and the heart, through idea association I thought of the Huntsman. Who is a bad character at the beginning, even if he becomes good afterwards (therefore Rhand could easily assign him to either alignment). As for "if he had any reason to believe flavour matters", I had my own role in mind (a random critter as far as I care) rather than the beginning posts.
@dkings: Happy third year parenting birthday.
What do you think about CropCircles's posts thus far?
I recall you were logical/well-thought out back in the day when you were criticizing various towns' performances in QuickTopics
Fair, I was just hoping to get some sort of baseline to evaluate CC.
Point taken on Rodemy, and wrt 22 I wanted to chime in and weigh in with my own opinion.
Walk me through your thought process on claiming this early? Did you really believe you were at L-2 with a vote count absent?
So they are stances except that they aren't stances. Got it.
Also "lynching town is bad" is not a tell. Bandwagoning and throwing broad accusations are. You're comparison does not hold up. You are clearly inventing reasons to vote for me.
Also, am I the only one who suspects that Rodemy's role isn't The Huntsman, nor Thor, nor any other Chris Hemsworth role?
Yeah, no. You jumped on a bandwagon claiming that you were persuaded by an argument of Vaimes' that he never made. So obviously your rationale for voting me had nothing to do with what Vaimes said. When I've asked you to justify it, you've just said, "Look at what Grapefruit21 wrote." You STILL haven't justified it.
If you need Grapefruit21 to explain your argument for you, then you obviously don't know what it is, because you don't actually have one. You voted me to jump on a bandwagon, then tried to come up with an explanation to justify it after the fact, and it backfired. Vote stands.
I don't know, but when I look at this exchange -
ZDS: I'm jumping on the Highroller bandwagon based on that thing Vaimes said!
Highroller: Except Vaimes never actually said that thing, therefore you're clearly jumping on the bandwagon without any basis whatsoever, while trying to hide behind someone else. Care to comment?
ZDS: "See Grape's response" (actual wording by ZDS, I'm not making this up)
Prophylaxis: Highroller, I don't understand what problem you could possibly have with ZDS. All of his posts have been so well-reasoned and logical!
- I know I'm being pranked. Which of you is pranking me, I'm not sure, but I know I'm being pranked. This is a prank.
One thing is for certain, if ZDS were to flip town, I'd absolutely vote you first, because it would explain just so many things.
I haven't looked into him yet. Been rather preoccupied with you two lately.
My alt is CropCircles. I couldn't log back into it, so I created this one instead. I'm pretty sure we were in Sin City mafia together.[/quote]I was definitely in Sin City mafia!
You were in Mafia: Dominaria Style?!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/446581-mafia-dominaria-style-seventh-edition-the-war-of
Oh damn! Wow! That brings me back...
Good to see you again, CropCircles! Sorry, I didn't really know you back then. Hopefully will get to now!
@Axelrod do you accept this Medal? Wear it proudly and know that I will always have your flank.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to get a bigger post in, but maybe can tonight. The game is only three pages long so I'm not feeling too pressed to get my hands dirty, but when I do, I'm going to build a wall between scum and town and make scum pay for it.
V/LA til Monday.