i was kinda buying tom's theory on kj being fonti's partner before i left. deadbananas's iso doesn't really do much for me in either direction on that front
lemme take a peek at kj's since i don't think i've actually done that yet
yeah ok there's legit like. zero interaction between fonti and kj
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
yeah ok there's legit like. zero interaction between fonti and kj
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
It seems really dicey to be going SK hunting based on "interactions." And in this case, lack of interactions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
yeah ok there's legit like. zero interaction between fonti and kj
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
It seems really dicey to be going SK hunting based on "interactions." And in this case, lack of interactions.
i mean, it's no different than scumhunting off associatives, right?
we know that there's one player currently alive right now who had TMI on fonti and didn't need to solve her alignment, and vice-versa. that's something we can work with. i don't necessarily see what's so "dicey" about it given that this is also how people find wolves based on dead wolves' posting; hell, i'd say we actually have fewer real ways to find fonti's partner, because fonti is the ONLY person they have TMI on - so for the rest of the playerlist, they can formulate actual reads and do actual scumhunting
if you're suggesting that i eschew voting for a potential sk target altogether, i probably would if i had someone i was reasonably sure is mafia, but i've been out of the thread for like a week and don't have much of a grasp on anything anymore. lotta things need refreshing, and i think this is a fine pressure vote in the meantime - and like, eliminating the carrows should eliminate another antitown KP anyways, which is Good
Town Reads:
Ampharos - Its to keep a highly consistent level of posting and look constantly town for scum. This is what Ampharos has done. They have asked game advancing questions and were on the forefront of actually pushing the game to develop early on.
Town Leans
Tomsloger - Has been asking a lot of good questions and keeping levelheaded and not showing up as opportunistic. Shows logical thought progression especially in his little rainbow wall things.
Rodemy - His day 1 interactions with sloth feel good, he's been all over the place, but I think that shows towny reconsideration and willingness to vote. Alot of what looks like scumhunting coming from this slot as well.
Rhand - The clarification on the point about TerRaine showed me a thought process that I feel like comes from town. No posts have jumped out to me as scummy for this slot either, reads are changing and moving around, doesn't feel forced.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - The slot had the weird start to day one with the Fonti/Wiisp situation, but besides that they have been incredibly pure throughout the game. They seem to take big breaks in between reading/posting, and their catchup to then posts are all good and have a natural feel to them that I think it would be hard for a scum member to fake.
TerRaine - This slot can be town I guess? Their interaction with Sloth doesn't feel Wolf Wolf and they don't feel like a third party. Their reads dont' seem forced, and they have showed read progression. Null town
GooLagoon - This slot hasn't really taken a lot of hard stances in all their posts. Would just be null for me but I don't think Scum asks Jack to target them here.
Wakemeup - This slots meta flip floppyness looks bad. But I agree that a scum would of dropped that angle and the stubbornness looks townie to me.
Null
Jackrito - Stated attitude towards finding scum strikes me more as the other 3p killer, but nothing really besides that has stood out to me much about this slot. Fine to let it stay for today.
Null scum
Kpaca - The push on Tom for posting GIFs felt slightly opportunistic to me. Hasn't had anything that pings me as super town either. I don't think he can be scum with orange though, and I'm much more confident about my current orange scum team than this slot.
Scumlean:
Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well.
Scumread:
Slothful - A lot of his posts feel super surface level. They look fine, but he's not really going anywhere with them ,he has a ton of posts, long ones too, but hasn't made a lot of progress anywhere. Combine that with Orange, which I'll get to next, since he ties up my main three.
OrangeandBlack - The Fuwa slot pinged me as scum with the vote onto Konan even thought they said they werent for it before, and admitting to blatantly sheeping Fonti. Orange is a strong player, but his interactions with slothful make me think they are scum together. He has been pitching him some softball questions and working to get people off him, this post and others strike me as that. This also fits in with Trisscar, as the only people Trisscar said they felt were good were Sloth and Orange, Orange can also be seen coaxing Trisscar, like when they told them to interact with someone besides Axel, and Trisscar tried to interact with orange and orange said not me. Orange doesn't do that when they are town, they would take that interaction with them self. Orange is a powerwolf, and thats what he's doing this game.
Vote Orange
Also would be find with Sloth or Trisscar today. I think Oranges is the biggest threat and would be best to get out first.
@sloth I'd be happy with either of you toDay. As it stands I think your wagon is stronger and has more numbers. People are outright saying they won't read the WMU/Trisscar/TerRaine stuff so....doesn't matter how strongly I feel about it. It's a wasted vote if it doesn't have other Town Support
...we already hashed this out. I think you're defense of WMU's antics is off putting. I think you acting like my going after kpaca was weird is off putting. We keep going in circles on this. Its frustrates the hell out of me to keep gong over it and then no one batts an eye.
Same for the points I make about WMU. Some players go "I'm just going to ignore WMU/Ter thing"
Or when I agree with a common sense point of "it doesn't matter if I know I'm right as town I need to convince others" I'm just "pocketing"
Town aint listening to a damn thing I say so I'm not particularly motivated to bother blathering on and on. I'll cast my vote at this point and wait for flips. If this is scummy to y'all then so be it and lynch me but I'm tired of saying "here's my case" and being asked days later like orange and wmu "well what's your case? oh you don't want to do double the work. Pssh scum"
Well if nothing else this frustration is definitely real. Probably should be NAI, but I'm ranking it as slightly town>rand.
I still have no idea why you are doing some things you do.
Let's cut through some of the things here:
I don't see how a lot of what I said about WMU was a hard defense for him specifically. I saw people drawing conclusions that made no sense to draw from what he said, which is suspect to me.
Once the potential language barrier came out, that became even more relevant, not less, imo.
You were not going after kpaca, if that means figuring him out for the game, you were just plain antagonizing him. There's obviously a difference and I don't feel like going over it again.
The reason why I (and I assume others) ignored the WMU/you thing is because you were both going in circles and giving no new information. Even you said that, why would we need t reread the same thing over and over?
fwiw, I don't see how you repeating something someone already said is scummy, depending on the context.
Btw, when someone asks for your case and you've already said it, you could just link them to the post, instead of repeating it.
so youre saying her interactions, while *tenacious*, dont seem to deeply matter towards solving the game
Their laissez-faire attitude towards who they will vote to be yeeted, and their kp roles fits in with what I'd expect of the other Carrow sibling role. I'm not sure on it, I just don't think people should be giving Jack town points for the shot. It makes sense for a 3p killer to make the kill and claim because it gives them an easy excuse if they are tracked to a kill later and is a shot that no one would blame them for.
yeah ok there's legit like. zero interaction between fonti and kj
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
It seems really dicey to be going SK hunting based on "interactions." And in this case, lack of interactions.
i mean, it's no different than scumhunting off associatives, right?
we know that there's one player currently alive right now who had TMI on fonti and didn't need to solve her alignment, and vice-versa. that's something we can work with. i don't necessarily see what's so "dicey" about it given that this is also how people find wolves based on dead wolves' posting; hell, i'd say we actually have fewer real ways to find fonti's partner, because fonti is the ONLY person they have TMI on - so for the rest of the playerlist, they can formulate actual reads and do actual scumhunting
if you're suggesting that i eschew voting for a potential sk target altogether, i probably would if i had someone i was reasonably sure is mafia, but i've been out of the thread for like a week and don't have much of a grasp on anything anymore. lotta things need refreshing, and i think this is a fine pressure vote in the meantime - and like, eliminating the carrows should eliminate another antitown KP anyways, which is Good
its also not just lack of interactions
Fontis side is more interesting. I quoted all 4 posts a couple times toDay
@WakeMeUp "If i am so bad that no one wants to play with me, i can stop playing and let a nicer person take my slot.
Please let me know about this, everyone.
I think my few reads are pretty obvious and so my presence is not really required, i will read the game and only post from now on if someone asks me a question."
No.
Interact with people. Play the game. Try not to be rude, and if someone feels you are then have them explain it. Learn things, don't fade into the background that doesn't help.
Their laissez-faire attitude towards who they will vote to be yeeted, and their kp roles fits in with what I'd expect of the other Carrow sibling role. I'm not sure on it, I just don't think people should be giving Jack town points for the shot. It makes sense for a 3p killer to make the kill and claim because it gives them an easy excuse if they are tracked to a kill later and is a shot that no one would blame them for.
<exactly what a carrow would say>
Yay! Something actually addressed towards me, could you point out to me why you think this is exactly what a Carrow would say?
yeah ok there's legit like. zero interaction between fonti and kj
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
Its pretty bad sure, and I can't really defend it since its not me. I think you have confirmation bias though. You are specifically looking for how many times Kj interacted with Fonti, not noting how many people he also similarly didn't interact with.
Day 1 KJ interacted in a game related way to Fonti once. He had similar or less interactions with: Fuwa, Wakemeup, Joe, Tubba, anyone in the Rhand slot.
Fonti's sticks out more and is worse because of how much she posted day 1 and drove the conversation, but the jist of it is KJ never really interacted with a lot of people, and who he interacted with is was usually only a few times. Thats all I can really say to defend this.
@JoeTerry "To clarify, I found Triss' level of focus on SK & 3P interesting because that's what scum can do to still seem sincere in their involvement and not just pushing fabricated cases on town or even bussing."
The cases on SK and 3p are easier to parse mechanically because we actually have information about them. Not like any maf died N1 or EoD1 as far as we can tell.
-------
@Sloth "Ok Trisscar's #2837 and #2838 are a bunch of nonsense with no game-solving or game-relevant interaction in it. In fact, he goes on a long, mildly interesting, but 100% useless talk about ad algorithms and Google???
Uh... ...would scum be brazen enough to do that? Why would town do it though??
#2841 is just HP lore with no attempt to tie back in the game...it ends with a semi-selfconscious statement that he's not really trying to scumhunt (?) and mentions there are two players that he isn't inclined to believe but doesn't name them. He later does when asked about it, but it bugs me: Why wait at ALL? Was he waiting from prompting? Also he didn't give reasons for it.
#2864 seems to indicate that the read on WMU (and Kpaca) is because they're not nice? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I just don't see an alternative interpretation. Why is not-nice a scumtell? I'm definitely an ******** lol.
@Trisscar: Do you have any not-feel based reads that you wanted to press but didn't because of thread environment? Talk about those."
The ad algorithms bit was because someone asked, and I happen to know quite a bit about it. I also happen to like teaching people what I know. Pretty sure that's just a human trait in general.
I was avoiding saying their names because I didn't want to start yet another argument, and slowing it down at least helps with the impact. Also I did in fact give reasons, but you may need to read my notes posts to see some of them. Also I was asked what my flavor-game thoughts were, and I gave them, not sure why you're focusing on this so much.
As I was previously told in the case of another game: Causing other players to not want to play (or read) through stressful social interaction can be an effective scumplay because while scum have a chat of their own to hash things out in and a team they know they belong to, to act as support, town does not. It is also a *****ty way to play games in general, and the fact that we have at least 50 of the 59 pages so far full of that kind of *****ty play is pissing me off.
Like I said, I think this game is either uber multiball (which would make sense flavor-wise), or it's full of town v town. I am susp of damn near every single person in this thread, and I'm likely to stay that way til people change my mind because I do not want to read through the history of this game again.
-------
@Deadbananas "Their laissez-faire attitude towards who they will vote to be yeeted, and their kp roles fits in with what I'd expect of the other Carrow sibling role. I'm not sure on it, I just don't think people should be giving Jack town points for the shot. It makes sense for a 3p killer to make the kill and claim because it gives them an easy excuse if they are tracked to a kill later and is a shot that no one would blame them for."
This honestly. Avoids or masks a majority of ways in which someone could be checked or tracked. I'd also not be surprised if Jack is actually town vig but I don't consider them confirmed or anything.
Their laissez-faire attitude towards who they will vote to be yeeted, and their kp roles fits in with what I'd expect of the other Carrow sibling role. I'm not sure on it, I just don't think people should be giving Jack town points for the shot. It makes sense for a 3p killer to make the kill and claim because it gives them an easy excuse if they are tracked to a kill later and is a shot that no one would blame them for.
<exactly what a carrow would say>
Yay! Something actually addressed towards me, could you point out to me why you think this is exactly what a Carrow would say?
sure
I think that post and your readlist is trying to add jack to the carrow pool, not mention the likelihood wrt to anyone else, then not really try to resolve it because it is you thats the true carrow
Youre not even wrong. If jacks not town its prolly because hes fontis partner. But overall i just dont think that kill target + claim comes from anyone but town very often.
The wisp kill or just an even night poison seem like better places to find [you] anyway
I think that post and your readlist is trying to add jack to the carrow pool, not mention the likelihood wrt to anyone else, then not really try to resolve it because it is you thats the true carrow
Youre not even wrong. If jacks not town its prolly because hes fontis partner. But overall i just dont think that kill target + claim comes from anyone but town very often.
The wisp kill or just an even night poison seem like better places to find [you] anyway
Your right in that I'm trying to not really resolve it, because I don't think its that important. Yes, I know if I was a Carrow I'd say it wasn't important too sure. But one of the Carrow's is already dead, so theres literally only one left, and chances are scum might hit it again. Where as there are still probably all of scum alive (I don't LW was scum personally) and I'd much rather focus on and eliminate scum today rather than go for a more risky play onto Jack who could be our town vig. I'm pretty confident that orange is scum here, so I'd much rather go onto that.
I see little harm in leaving the Carrow alive for now, they aren't going to be able to win and kill us tonight, and they could kill scum.
Hey fulcrum why don’t you answer my question instead of telling me to “calm down”
why are you looking for arguments for or against killjoy
Right, sorry, I'm still kind of in a weird headspace, but getting better.
Um, killjoy? Because I don't know him really well and want to call him town but don't feel comfortable with, like, commitment man so I want to rely on my other townreads to check me.
Current Killjoy reminds me of Matter Killjoy: obsessed with Axelrod, doing his own thing, not much of a presence otherwise. He doesn't give me the bad vibes he gave me in Matter (as town), but I'm also not paying as much attention so maybe that's why. Also it *feels* like he's less active, but maybe he's just being drowned by the crowd. He's in my ok pile.
I don't get why killjoy is in your ok pile, from the other things you've said about him. Like, you're saying he gave you bad vibes previously when he was town, yeah? So, wouldn't him not giving you the same vibes this game be somewhat concerning, not a reason to townread him? Same thing on him not having much of presence and the Axelrod obsession, those things aren't usually considered towny. What am I missing here?
>calls him town
>but not too town
>but actually no read
>shading zds for townreading him
Their recent posts and this whole thing with WMU is just making this game even more of a struggle for me to commit to then it was to begin with, Zion before them was pretty bad also because of how little impact they had. I'm also good with swapping to DB if needed also.
My vote on Triss is also partly to do with Sloth's review on them, this is a weird choice since I was scumreading him eariler today, but I tend to flip on Sloth a lot and he is putting a lot of effort in, and I think his points on Triss were ok.
Town Reads:
Ampharos - Its to keep a highly consistent level of posting and look constantly town for scum. This is what Ampharos has done. They have asked game advancing questions and were on the forefront of actually pushing the game to develop early on.
Town Leans
Tomsloger - Has been asking a lot of good questions and keeping levelheaded and not showing up as opportunistic. Shows logical thought progression especially in his little rainbow wall things.
Rodemy - His day 1 interactions with sloth feel good, he's been all over the place, but I think that shows towny reconsideration and willingness to vote. Alot of what looks like scumhunting coming from this slot as well.
Rhand - The clarification on the point about TerRaine showed me a thought process that I feel like comes from town. No posts have jumped out to me as scummy for this slot either, reads are changing and moving around, doesn't feel forced.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - The slot had the weird start to day one with the Fonti/Wiisp situation, but besides that they have been incredibly pure throughout the game. They seem to take big breaks in between reading/posting, and their catchup to then posts are all good and have a natural feel to them that I think it would be hard for a scum member to fake.
TerRaine - This slot can be town I guess? Their interaction with Sloth doesn't feel Wolf Wolf and they don't feel like a third party. Their reads dont' seem forced, and they have showed read progression. Null town
GooLagoon - This slot hasn't really taken a lot of hard stances in all their posts. Would just be null for me but I don't think Scum asks Jack to target them here.
Wakemeup - This slots meta flip floppyness looks bad. But I agree that a scum would of dropped that angle and the stubbornness looks townie to me.
Null
Jackrito - Stated attitude towards finding scum strikes me more as the other 3p killer, but nothing really besides that has stood out to me much about this slot. Fine to let it stay for today.
Null scum
Kpaca - The push on Tom for posting GIFs felt slightly opportunistic to me. Hasn't had anything that pings me as super town either. I don't think he can be scum with orange though, and I'm much more confident about my current orange scum team than this slot.
Scumlean:
Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well.
Scumread:
Slothful - A lot of his posts feel super surface level. They look fine, but he's not really going anywhere with them ,he has a ton of posts, long ones too, but hasn't made a lot of progress anywhere. Combine that with Orange, which I'll get to next, since he ties up my main three.
OrangeandBlack - The Fuwa slot pinged me as scum with the vote onto Konan even thought they said they werent for it before, and admitting to blatantly sheeping Fonti. Orange is a strong player, but his interactions with slothful make me think they are scum together. He has been pitching him some softball questions and working to get people off him, this post and others strike me as that. This also fits in with Trisscar, as the only people Trisscar said they felt were good were Sloth and Orange, Orange can also be seen coaxing Trisscar, like when they told them to interact with someone besides Axel, and Trisscar tried to interact with orange and orange said not me. Orange doesn't do that when they are town, they would take that interaction with them self. Orange is a powerwolf, and thats what he's doing this game.
Vote Orange
Also would be find with Sloth or Trisscar today. I think Oranges is the biggest threat and would be best to get out first.
i dont care a lot about the stronger reads. Maybe a little effusive/pockety towards me and joe, maybe the orange/sloth team seems codependent. But whatever.
But that middle section isnt a town person.
That shade at lagoon/wmu
The jack sk read essentially as an aside
@Deadbananas "Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well. "
Explain major scum vibes please?
I believe I said that they weren't scum or town reads, just (essentially) that they were the people who were either being unhelpful or helpful with their behavior. I do recognize that being pleasant to read does not equal being townie, however it is still better than not being such.
Okay deadline is today. Let’s get votes in please.
I think I am gonna avoid the WMU wagon and stay on sloth.
Help me Rod Emy One Kenobi, you’re my only hope. I didn’t have time to read The Sloth ISO and probably won’t tomorrow. Breakdown the case.
I’m getting off WMU, and am leaning Triss. I don’t like lynching DB right now.
Town Reads:
Ampharos - Its to keep a highly consistent level of posting and look constantly town for scum. This is what Ampharos has done. They have asked game advancing questions and were on the forefront of actually pushing the game to develop early on.
Town Leans
Tomsloger - Has been asking a lot of good questions and keeping levelheaded and not showing up as opportunistic. Shows logical thought progression especially in his little rainbow wall things.
Rodemy - His day 1 interactions with sloth feel good, he's been all over the place, but I think that shows towny reconsideration and willingness to vote. Alot of what looks like scumhunting coming from this slot as well.
Rhand - The clarification on the point about TerRaine showed me a thought process that I feel like comes from town. No posts have jumped out to me as scummy for this slot either, reads are changing and moving around, doesn't feel forced.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - The slot had the weird start to day one with the Fonti/Wiisp situation, but besides that they have been incredibly pure throughout the game. They seem to take big breaks in between reading/posting, and their catchup to then posts are all good and have a natural feel to them that I think it would be hard for a scum member to fake.
TerRaine - This slot can be town I guess? Their interaction with Sloth doesn't feel Wolf Wolf and they don't feel like a third party. Their reads dont' seem forced, and they have showed read progression. Null town
GooLagoon - This slot hasn't really taken a lot of hard stances in all their posts. Would just be null for me but I don't think Scum asks Jack to target them here.
Wakemeup - This slots meta flip floppyness looks bad. But I agree that a scum would of dropped that angle and the stubbornness looks townie to me.
Null
Jackrito - Stated attitude towards finding scum strikes me more as the other 3p killer, but nothing really besides that has stood out to me much about this slot. Fine to let it stay for today.
Null scum
Kpaca - The push on Tom for posting GIFs felt slightly opportunistic to me. Hasn't had anything that pings me as super town either. I don't think he can be scum with orange though, and I'm much more confident about my current orange scum team than this slot.
Scumlean:
Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well.
Scumread:
Slothful - A lot of his posts feel super surface level. They look fine, but he's not really going anywhere with them ,he has a ton of posts, long ones too, but hasn't made a lot of progress anywhere. Combine that with Orange, which I'll get to next, since he ties up my main three.
OrangeandBlack - The Fuwa slot pinged me as scum with the vote onto Konan even thought they said they werent for it before, and admitting to blatantly sheeping Fonti. Orange is a strong player, but his interactions with slothful make me think they are scum together. He has been pitching him some softball questions and working to get people off him, this post and others strike me as that. This also fits in with Trisscar, as the only people Trisscar said they felt were good were Sloth and Orange, Orange can also be seen coaxing Trisscar, like when they told them to interact with someone besides Axel, and Trisscar tried to interact with orange and orange said not me. Orange doesn't do that when they are town, they would take that interaction with them self. Orange is a powerwolf, and thats what he's doing this game.
Vote Orange
Also would be find with Sloth or Trisscar today. I think Oranges is the biggest threat and would be best to get out first.
i dont care a lot about the stronger reads. Maybe a little effusive/pockety towards me and joe, maybe the orange/sloth team seems codependent. But whatever.
But that middle section isnt a town person.
That shade at lagoon/wmu
The jack sk read essentially as an aside
Those are his pushes for later
Yeh and Jack SK makes no sense because then one of the other kills would’ve been claimed by a vig.
Also he calls Orange mafia with Sloth but doesn’t vote Sloth who is a wagon. (Orange isn’t, right?)
Orange is town by the way, that catch where he thinks tubba had a result on me is not mafia-motivated.
Not really interested in DeadBananas, especially on the highly questionable grounds that interactions with Fulcrum suggest he's the other SK. I just don't see it. The posts Tom quoted do not move the needle. And it's even inconsistent with an argument that Fulcrum would have had zero interaction with her partner.
Meanwhile, Triss continues to do essentially nothing but coast.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Not really interested in DeadBananas, especially on the highly questionable grounds that interactions with Fulcrum suggest he's the other SK. I just don't see it. The posts Tom quoted do not move the needle. And it's even inconsistent with an argument that Fulcrum would have had zero interaction with her partner.
Meanwhile, Triss continues to do essentially nothing but coast.
I think the Bananas slot is not town, regardless of any Fulcrum pairing stuff.
I would be ok with a Triss lynch too.
When I was scum with Fulcrum recently, it turned into a massive busfest.
Ok, I tried to phone read some of Sloths recent posts and I think the main problem I was having with sloth was their defense of WMU, but if I’m gonna re-evaluate WMU, I need to do the same for Sloth.
Vote: Trisscar
im mobile only and busy today. I’ll try to keep up
Her and tom and hand will be excellent to look at if KJ slot flips town. gonna avoid that one as well. something seems off about it.
Hmmm.. I don't trust this. Too little votes and suddenly everyone is going after KJ slot. i don't think this is a town led wagon.
That’s not sudden at all though?
The slot was under fire already before Bananas replaced in.
The wagon has had Tom on it the entire Day, no votes on him, and WMU and Sloth have been WAYYYY more under fire than Bananas. So yeah, it's kinda sudden.
Define: under fire?
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I just don't see it. The posts Tom quoted do not move the needle.
you cant see why fonti would try to townread a partner, drop it when it got no support, lampshade not having a read on him, and attack someone for townreading him?
Its also already a pretty small POE. Im fairly confident kpaca, wmu, amy, rod, lagoon, and sloth arent carrows from interactions. And find jack unlikely to have claimed if carrow.
And, again, slot is just scummy and could flip mafia too
Her and tom and hand will be excellent to look at if KJ slot flips town. gonna avoid that one as well. something seems off about it.
Hmmm.. I don't trust this. Too little votes and suddenly everyone is going after KJ slot. i don't think this is a town led wagon.
That’s not sudden at all though?
The slot was under fire already before Bananas replaced in.
The wagon has had Tom on it the entire Day, no votes on him, and WMU and Sloth have been WAYYYY more under fire than Bananas. So yeah, it's kinda sudden.
Define: under fire?
kj was top wagon when the replacement happened yo.
People gave him space, now its time to eliminate scum
I just don't see it. The posts Tom quoted do not move the needle.
you cant see why fonti would try to townread a partner, drop it when it got no support, lampshade not having a read on him, and attack someone for townreading him?
Its also already a pretty small POE. Im fairly confident kpaca, wmu, amy, rod, lagoon, and sloth arent carrows from interactions. And find jack unlikely to have claimed if carrow.
And, again, slot is just scummy and could flip mafia too
I will freely admit I haven't done an analysis in this regard. I might agree that anyone Fulcrum pushed hard against would not be her partner, and vice-versa. That's about as far as I would go, however, and even that can be dicey because distancing is a thing and it depends on the nature of the "push." If that's what you analysed to conclude the people who you think aren't her partner aren't her partner...ok?
I don't think that's what you did though, am I right?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
think reading that slot might be a solid idea to start out
i was kinda buying tom's theory on kj being fonti's partner before i left. deadbananas's iso doesn't really do much for me in either direction on that front
lemme take a peek at kj's since i don't think i've actually done that yet
don't suppose anyone has any meta insight on how fonti typically treats her teammates? cause honestly in a vacuum i can buy fonti not talking to/about kj that much, but the reverse is... weird, given fonti's thread presence
##Vote: deadbananas
seems fine for now tbh, though i'll probably unvote to avoid maj if necessary until we get this much-alluded-to readslist
i remember tubba's posting was actually pretty decent before i left? probably revisit that, and probably revisit WMU as well
operating off the assumption that wisp was not scum means we don't have a scumflip to work with, which is. somewhat annoying
we know that there's one player currently alive right now who had TMI on fonti and didn't need to solve her alignment, and vice-versa. that's something we can work with. i don't necessarily see what's so "dicey" about it given that this is also how people find wolves based on dead wolves' posting; hell, i'd say we actually have fewer real ways to find fonti's partner, because fonti is the ONLY person they have TMI on - so for the rest of the playerlist, they can formulate actual reads and do actual scumhunting
if you're suggesting that i eschew voting for a potential sk target altogether, i probably would if i had someone i was reasonably sure is mafia, but i've been out of the thread for like a week and don't have much of a grasp on anything anymore. lotta things need refreshing, and i think this is a fine pressure vote in the meantime - and like, eliminating the carrows should eliminate another antitown KP anyways, which is Good
perhaps i'll like. actually catch up.
Axel - angel
Town Reads:
Ampharos - Its to keep a highly consistent level of posting and look constantly town for scum. This is what Ampharos has done. They have asked game advancing questions and were on the forefront of actually pushing the game to develop early on.
Town Leans
Tomsloger - Has been asking a lot of good questions and keeping levelheaded and not showing up as opportunistic. Shows logical thought progression especially in his little rainbow wall things.
Rodemy - His day 1 interactions with sloth feel good, he's been all over the place, but I think that shows towny reconsideration and willingness to vote. Alot of what looks like scumhunting coming from this slot as well.
Rhand - The clarification on the point about TerRaine showed me a thought process that I feel like comes from town. No posts have jumped out to me as scummy for this slot either, reads are changing and moving around, doesn't feel forced.
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - The slot had the weird start to day one with the Fonti/Wiisp situation, but besides that they have been incredibly pure throughout the game. They seem to take big breaks in between reading/posting, and their catchup to then posts are all good and have a natural feel to them that I think it would be hard for a scum member to fake.
TerRaine - This slot can be town I guess? Their interaction with Sloth doesn't feel Wolf Wolf and they don't feel like a third party. Their reads dont' seem forced, and they have showed read progression.
Null town
GooLagoon - This slot hasn't really taken a lot of hard stances in all their posts. Would just be null for me but I don't think Scum asks Jack to target them here.
Wakemeup - This slots meta flip floppyness looks bad. But I agree that a scum would of dropped that angle and the stubbornness looks townie to me.
Null
Jackrito - Stated attitude towards finding scum strikes me more as the other 3p killer, but nothing really besides that has stood out to me much about this slot. Fine to let it stay for today.
Null scum
Kpaca - The push on Tom for posting GIFs felt slightly opportunistic to me. Hasn't had anything that pings me as super town either. I don't think he can be scum with orange though, and I'm much more confident about my current orange scum team than this slot.
Scumlean:
Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well.
Scumread:
Slothful - A lot of his posts feel super surface level. They look fine, but he's not really going anywhere with them ,he has a ton of posts, long ones too, but hasn't made a lot of progress anywhere. Combine that with Orange, which I'll get to next, since he ties up my main three.
OrangeandBlack - The Fuwa slot pinged me as scum with the vote onto Konan even thought they said they werent for it before, and admitting to blatantly sheeping Fonti. Orange is a strong player, but his interactions with slothful make me think they are scum together. He has been pitching him some softball questions and working to get people off him, this post and others strike me as that. This also fits in with Trisscar, as the only people Trisscar said they felt were good were Sloth and Orange, Orange can also be seen coaxing Trisscar, like when they told them to interact with someone besides Axel, and Trisscar tried to interact with orange and orange said not me. Orange doesn't do that when they are town, they would take that interaction with them self. Orange is a powerwolf, and thats what he's doing this game.
Vote Orange
Also would be find with Sloth or Trisscar today. I think Oranges is the biggest threat and would be best to get out first.
I know. I will fully admit spite here. I don't cotton to being told my tone is off and I'm scummy followed by "Go get me your reads"
All this tells me is that someone is scum reading me without reading my posts.
Fontis side is more interesting. I quoted all 4 posts a couple times toDay
Please let me know about this, everyone.
I think my few reads are pretty obvious and so my presence is not really required, i will read the game and only post from now on if someone asks me a question."
No.
Interact with people. Play the game. Try not to be rude, and if someone feels you are then have them explain it. Learn things, don't fade into the background that doesn't help.
Yay! Something actually addressed towards me, could you point out to me why you think this is exactly what a Carrow would say?
Its pretty bad sure, and I can't really defend it since its not me. I think you have confirmation bias though. You are specifically looking for how many times Kj interacted with Fonti, not noting how many people he also similarly didn't interact with.
Day 1 KJ interacted in a game related way to Fonti once. He had similar or less interactions with: Fuwa, Wakemeup, Joe, Tubba, anyone in the Rhand slot.
Fonti's sticks out more and is worse because of how much she posted day 1 and drove the conversation, but the jist of it is KJ never really interacted with a lot of people, and who he interacted with is was usually only a few times. Thats all I can really say to defend this.
The cases on SK and 3p are easier to parse mechanically because we actually have information about them. Not like any maf died N1 or EoD1 as far as we can tell.
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@Sloth "Ok Trisscar's #2837 and #2838 are a bunch of nonsense with no game-solving or game-relevant interaction in it. In fact, he goes on a long, mildly interesting, but 100% useless talk about ad algorithms and Google???
Uh... ...would scum be brazen enough to do that? Why would town do it though??
#2841 is just HP lore with no attempt to tie back in the game...it ends with a semi-selfconscious statement that he's not really trying to scumhunt (?) and mentions there are two players that he isn't inclined to believe but doesn't name them. He later does when asked about it, but it bugs me: Why wait at ALL? Was he waiting from prompting? Also he didn't give reasons for it.
#2864 seems to indicate that the read on WMU (and Kpaca) is because they're not nice? I'm not trying to be an ass here, I just don't see an alternative interpretation. Why is not-nice a scumtell? I'm definitely an ******** lol.
@Trisscar: Do you have any not-feel based reads that you wanted to press but didn't because of thread environment? Talk about those."
The ad algorithms bit was because someone asked, and I happen to know quite a bit about it. I also happen to like teaching people what I know. Pretty sure that's just a human trait in general.
I was avoiding saying their names because I didn't want to start yet another argument, and slowing it down at least helps with the impact. Also I did in fact give reasons, but you may need to read my notes posts to see some of them. Also I was asked what my flavor-game thoughts were, and I gave them, not sure why you're focusing on this so much.
As I was previously told in the case of another game: Causing other players to not want to play (or read) through stressful social interaction can be an effective scumplay because while scum have a chat of their own to hash things out in and a team they know they belong to, to act as support, town does not. It is also a *****ty way to play games in general, and the fact that we have at least 50 of the 59 pages so far full of that kind of *****ty play is pissing me off.
Like I said, I think this game is either uber multiball (which would make sense flavor-wise), or it's full of town v town. I am susp of damn near every single person in this thread, and I'm likely to stay that way til people change my mind because I do not want to read through the history of this game again.
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@Deadbananas "Their laissez-faire attitude towards who they will vote to be yeeted, and their kp roles fits in with what I'd expect of the other Carrow sibling role. I'm not sure on it, I just don't think people should be giving Jack town points for the shot. It makes sense for a 3p killer to make the kill and claim because it gives them an easy excuse if they are tracked to a kill later and is a shot that no one would blame them for."
This honestly. Avoids or masks a majority of ways in which someone could be checked or tracked. I'd also not be surprised if Jack is actually town vig but I don't consider them confirmed or anything.
I think that post and your readlist is trying to add jack to the carrow pool, not mention the likelihood wrt to anyone else, then not really try to resolve it because it is you thats the true carrow
Youre not even wrong. If jacks not town its prolly because hes fontis partner. But overall i just dont think that kill target + claim comes from anyone but town very often.
The wisp kill or just an even night poison seem like better places to find [you] anyway
Your right in that I'm trying to not really resolve it, because I don't think its that important. Yes, I know if I was a Carrow I'd say it wasn't important too sure. But one of the Carrow's is already dead, so theres literally only one left, and chances are scum might hit it again. Where as there are still probably all of scum alive (I don't LW was scum personally) and I'd much rather focus on and eliminate scum today rather than go for a more risky play onto Jack who could be our town vig. I'm pretty confident that orange is scum here, so I'd much rather go onto that.
I see little harm in leaving the Carrow alive for now, they aren't going to be able to win and kill us tonight, and they could kill scum.
Their recent posts and this whole thing with WMU is just making this game even more of a struggle for me to commit to then it was to begin with, Zion before them was pretty bad also because of how little impact they had. I'm also good with swapping to DB if needed also.
My vote on Triss is also partly to do with Sloth's review on them, this is a weird choice since I was scumreading him eariler today, but I tend to flip on Sloth a lot and he is putting a lot of effort in, and I think his points on Triss were ok.
Forget it I will come back to the Triss thing on day 3 this seems like the one that we will most likely agree on anyway
Sloth (3) - Terr, Rhand, Rodemy
WMU (2) - JoeTerry, kpaca
Terr (1) - orange
JoeTerry (1) - WMU
Triss (1) - Axel
Orange (1) - banana
Not voting: Lagoon, Triss
18 hours to deadline
But that middle section isnt a town person.
That shade at lagoon/wmu
The jack sk read essentially as an aside
Those are his pushes for later
"Trisscar - Their post about not trusting Axel because he said he hated his role but didn't ask to replace out gives major scum vibes, don't know how people seem to have forgotten about that, probably buried in all Wiisp's posts. They also have been less proactive than last game, but that part fits with them being upset at what they see as rudeness. I also don't like the post when I asked about their 2 scum and 2 town. They said Sloth and Orange for not making the thread a slog to read through, which is something a wolf can do equally well. "
Explain major scum vibes please?
I believe I said that they weren't scum or town reads, just (essentially) that they were the people who were either being unhelpful or helpful with their behavior. I do recognize that being pleasant to read does not equal being townie, however it is still better than not being such.
I’m getting off WMU, and am leaning Triss. I don’t like lynching DB right now.
Unvote
Yeh and Jack SK makes no sense because then one of the other kills would’ve been claimed by a vig.
Also he calls Orange mafia with Sloth but doesn’t vote Sloth who is a wagon. (Orange isn’t, right?)
Orange is town by the way, that catch where he thinks tubba had a result on me is not mafia-motivated.
ACTUALLY
vote amy
This post just screams fake to me, especially that rhetorical question in the beginning. It feels like a performance.
And how exactly was this brought to your attention?
Either way, amy's posts feel performative to me. Wouldn't be surprised if she flips scum with tom tbh.
Hmmm.. I don't trust this. Too little votes and suddenly everyone is going after KJ slot. i don't think this is a town led wagon.
That’s not sudden at all though?
The slot was under fire already before Bananas replaced in.
Meanwhile, Triss continues to do essentially nothing but coast.
I think the Bananas slot is not town, regardless of any Fulcrum pairing stuff.
I would be ok with a Triss lynch too.
When I was scum with Fulcrum recently, it turned into a massive busfest.
Vote: Trisscar
im mobile only and busy today. I’ll try to keep up
The wagon has had Tom on it the entire Day, no votes on him, and WMU and Sloth have been WAYYYY more under fire than Bananas. So yeah, it's kinda sudden.
Define: under fire?
Its also already a pretty small POE. Im fairly confident kpaca, wmu, amy, rod, lagoon, and sloth arent carrows from interactions. And find jack unlikely to have claimed if carrow.
And, again, slot is just scummy and could flip mafia too
People gave him space, now its time to eliminate scum
8 hours left?
I don't think that's what you did though, am I right?
Do you think the slots towny?
Or just have, uh, other reasons to try to save it?
I’m sticking with Amy.
deadbananas (5) - tomsloger, Slothful, Ampharos, Jackrito, Rhand
Trisscar (2) - Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Ampharos (1) - Rodemy
orangeandblack5 (1) - deadbananas
Slothful (1) - TerRaine
TerRaine (1) - orangeandblack5
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1) - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (1) - Starling
Not voting: gooLagoon, Trisscar
Vote History:
Slothful - Tubba Fett > (Unvote) > deadbananas
tomsloger - Slothful > deadbananas
TerRaine - Tubba Fett > xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Rodemy - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx > Axelrod > deadbananas > Slothful > deadbananas > xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx > Slothful > deadbananas > Ampharos
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx > Unvote
Rhand - Slothful > deadbananas > Slothful > deadbananas
Jackrito - orangeandblack5 > Unvote > Slothful > Unvote > Trisscar > deadbananas
gooLagoon - Slothful > TheRealStinkyJoeTerry > Slothful > Unvote
Axelrod - Trisscar
Starling - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
orangeandblack5 - kpaca > TerRaine
deadbananas - orangeandblack5
It takes 8 to elim, and Day 2 Deadline is July 11th, 2020 at 1715 PST. (Roughly 7 hours from now) There will likely be a twilight phase.
Rhand is V/LA.
Trisscar - 4+
Rhand - 4+
Rodemy - 4+
gooLagoon - 4+
orangeandblack5 - 4+
TerRaine - 4+
Jackrito - 4+
tomsloger - 4+
deadbananas - 4+
Slothful - 4+
Axelrod - 4+
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - 4+
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - 4+
Ampharos - 4+
kpaca - 0
Starling has replaced kpaca, effective immediately.
Do not discuss circumstances surrounding replacements.
I'm about to try to read through everything lol, so I'll try to let everyone know my thoughts as I go
good luck ._.
Youre scumreading amy for catching up