Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
@Fulcrum: NVM, I glazed over this post.
@Tubba: I don't know what you mean, either.
Assume that you’re scum and you know terrains is town. You need to create content about them, so you use a buzzword that doesn’t “mean” anything, in this example we’ll use “pure”. If you get questioned about it, you need to provide examples of what you meant by “pure”. Depending on how you respond to those questions can provide insight into whether it’s real or not. If you think the person asking you isn’t too bright or goofy, you might be looser with your response and provide more reality as opposed to artifice. Like when Colombo would always say, “Oh and there’s just one more thing...”
Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.
Well. As far as comebacks to help solidify reads go, this one certainly... ...yep.
Eh, I'm still not looking to strongly reassess anything until after today where people should be more reliable to post.
Oh, he's definitely scummy. The mislynch would be going after someone instead of him. But I'm being fair, and giving him a chance to help me make the wrong play. To mislynch, instead of just nailing scum d1.
I honestly don't see how scum makes this post off the bat.
Ok, now imagine it was me making Azrael's posts. Assume I don't know you well. What would you think my alignment was?
I'm not sure I understand.
I would...presumably arrive to the same conclusions I did with Az based of the idea that if you don't know me, I don't know you either so I can only use the same analysis I used on him for you.
With the conditional that I do know you despite you not knowing me and with you acting the way Azrael has...I'd probably be very confused about you right about now: This certainty and voting on me right off the bat would be very unlike you and I would imagine you wouldn't do it as scum, but I also don't see why you're doing it as town. Reaction testing maybe? But so randomly on a player you don't know?
I'd probably have a scumlean on you due to the confusion.
But you're you and Azrael's Azrael.
Having answered this question, I'm even less sure of what you were hoping to gain as Town, so maybe this is one of the times you should be direct.
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
Alright, I went through Tubba's iso. I'm not seeing this huge difference. He reacted pretty woodenly to being outed, he had a bit of a tmi problem with going after Last at the beginning, and his thought process was very linear (I think fluff in the Marvel thing game on MU is the best comparison here). It's the same linearity of focus I noticed in this game, and it makes Ter a likely partner. The joking out the gate here is different, I'm not seeing any of that lightness in Matter. Looks like he joined the thread during an intense bit on page 6 there, though, whereas here we were just ******* around. I could see the difference in tone being caused by that alone.
Change my mind, Sloth.
Eh, pass.
I'm not really interested in convincing you Tubba's town - he's a big boy and can do it himself.
This is more about you convincing me that he's (possibly) scum. Which. Hm. I think I will address that a bit.
Alright, I went through Tubba's iso. I'm not seeing this huge difference. He reacted pretty woodenly to being outed, he had a bit of a tmi problem with going after Last at the beginning, and his thought process was very linear (I think fluff in the Marvel thing game on MU is the best comparison here). It's the same linearity of focus I noticed in this game, and it makes Ter a likely partner. The joking out the gate here is different, I'm not seeing any of that lightness in Matter. Looks like he joined the thread during an intense bit on page 6 there, though, whereas here we were just ******* around. I could see the difference in tone being caused by that alone.
Change my mind, Sloth.
That actually took a lot less time than I expected. Ok, so.
No layered analysis, just focusing on one possibility, arguably not even the "most obvious" one due to TMI.
A fair bit of (unintentional, imo) subtle condescension ("the usual Day One group of puppies fumbling over each other.")
More redirecting/deflecting, answering questions with (short) questions.
Notable nervousness in his posts, absent here
A lot of the above can actually be seen in that Last/Umami debacle that got him caught.
Either way, Differences.
By contrast, here's the ISO from Prison, where Tubba was town. You only need to skim the last page (#4) for you to get a striking sense of familiarity.
Tubba is displaying no certainty one way or another on possibilities, as shown on #30, and he's not dropping it, rather continuing to work out things on #53. I'm not sensing any TMI - all in all the similarities you point out between this and Last, considering the above plus the fact he's not seemingly leaning towards anyone strongly for voting, means that it's surface only at most.
His biggest point of contention is actually that he has no stances, which, while annoying, is NAI for him. @Tubba though I do expect that to change fairly soon.
Sloth, how strong is your strongest townread? What makes Tubba easy to read in his few posts? And, not to be too narcissistic, but what makes me so difficult to read? I'm assuming you have as much if not more experience playing with me compared to Tubba, but correct me if that's totally wrong
As strong as a D1 read can be, I guess. Nothing of what I'm saying isn't capable of being brought down by a metaphorical "strong wind" (i.e. him not doing what I expect). In DnD terms, I guess it's a glass cannon.
I only have a bit more experience with Tubba than with you (like, 1-2 games tops). I have also seen him in more alignments that I've seen you, which is the important factor: Like I said, I don't know what scum you looks like so everything looks at least a little scummy, and you are a strong enough player, I think, that none of what you're doing now would be impossible for you as scum. That's pretty much it.
If you notice though, I'm slowly easing off.
Assume that you’re scum and you know terrains is town. You need to create content about them, so you use a buzzword that doesn’t “mean” anything, in this example we’ll use “pure”. If you get questioned about it, you need to provide examples of what you meant by “pure”. Depending on how you respond to those questions can provide insight into whether it’s real or not. If you think the person asking you isn’t too bright or goofy, you might be looser with your response and provide more reality as opposed to artifice. Like when Colombo would always say, “Oh and there’s just one more thing...”
Umami's vote on Fonti right after her brief TED talk on Tubba in #188 is ~odd.
I remember what you were saying about your vote, Umami, but you still went from voting her (albeit until something better came long) to sort-of-but-not-really-since-she-didn't-vote-but-you-used-her-points following her? What does this mean for your read on Fonti?
Possibly opportunistic...possibly excited (why? you were unsure on her?) mindmeld.
Umami. /shakes fist
Umami's vote on TUBBA right after FONTI'S brief TED talk on HIM in #188 is ~odd.*
I remember what you were saying about your vote, Umami, but you still went from voting her (albeit until something better came long) to sort-of-but-not-really-since-she-didn't-vote-but-you-used-her-points following her? What does this mean for your read on Fonti?
Possibly opportunistic...possibly excited (why? you were unsure on her?) mindmeld.
Umami. /shakes fist
I would say Osi was more persuasive in terms of her read list and that Tubba could be a partner with everyone. Tbh, not going to read the prison game. I just like playing the games I'm in, but his change in style immediately following being immediately outed could easily just be a conscious effort to play differently. The Colombo reference I don't get, but I still don't think it was like magic fingers over here to distract and get real information on the other hand. It read more hesitant, consciously non-antagonistic to me, which could be NAI, but earlier I had been to quickly to accept that different tubba=town tubba
Anyway, I do love that Azrael gives out town credit for people writing long posts that give us a chance to read them and yet has written very, very little. Azrael, let me try to read you
I would say Osi was more persuasive in terms of her read list and that Tubba could be a partner with everyone.
...? Osie that had him as Null?
Also with only two (Azrael and Ter) as partners to a varying but reasonable degree and one (fonti) as tinfoil.
Two (or three) is not exactly everyone.
Wouldn't put it past you to obviously interact with Tubba/coordinate to interact in a transparent way, though you're lower on my suspect list than Tubba
Wouldn't put it past you to obviously interact with Tubba/coordinate to interact in a transparent way, though you're lower on my suspect list than Tubba
Don't know where to go with hrm, but, since you know Ter well, how do you think she would interact with Azrael if team? Like do you think they would both be low posting or split styles?
Why "Change my mind, Sloth"?
Why are you putting it on me to argue someone else's towniness without prodding the other person?
Why are you orchestrating a situation where the power dynamic is for me to prove to you that I'm town and for you to believe it?
Before you bring up that the two of us were discussing Tubba, my answer to that is "So what?"
The rest of this post falls in line with our discussion perfectly well, actually, it's that last sentence that shift things.
It becomes an expectation of sorts: A test with the undertone is that it's a foregone conclusion for me that I am town and that I should be seeking your approval.
Which is the sort of manipulative bs I expect from your scumgame lol. Specially since you're not even prodding the actual topic of the conversation, and if I were to take your interactions with him on their own, I don't even think you're particularly doubting him.
Admittedly it's been a while but yeah: "Liquid predator" is the correct term for your movements this game - not just in the above but in others in your ISO.
Which is why...I'm going to continue not voting for you and simply observe you and your reactions/actions following this post!
Don't know where to go with hrm, but, since you know Ter well, how do you think she would interact with Azrael if team? Like do you think they would both be low posting or split styles?
I don't really take low posting into consideration until late in the game, tbh. Even if it's AI, I don't think it shows itself to be until then.
Plus I know for a fact why at least Ter is not posting, so it's already not worth thinking about.
As for an Azrael/Ter pairing: Unsure. Ter totally fooled me in Prison until literally seconds before the Night Kill hit me so I should not be considered an expert there, nor should I be followed unless you have your own reasons to.
The only interaction between the two that comes to mind is Ter stepping in to low-key defend me to Azrael. Which is nothing as far as alignments, though possibly more likely to come with scum-her having been caught by me than otherwise.
Why "Change my mind, Sloth"?
Why are you putting it on me to argue someone else's towniness without prodding the other person?
Why are you orchestrating a situation where the power dynamic is for me to prove to you that I'm town and for you to believe it?
Before you bring up that the two of us were discussing Tubba, my answer to that is "So what?"
The rest of this post falls in line with our discussion perfectly well, actually, it's that last sentence that shift things.
It becomes an expectation of sorts: A test with the undertone is that it's a foregone conclusion for me that I am town and that I should be seeking your approval.
Which is the sort of manipulative bs I expect from your scumgame lol. Specially since you're not even prodding the actual topic of the conversation, and if I were to take your interactions with him on their own, I don't even think you're particularly doubting him.
Admittedly it's been a while but yeah: "Liquid predator" is the correct term for your movements this game - not just in the above but in others in your ISO.
Which is why...I'm going to continue not voting for you and simply observe you and your reactions/actions following this post!
Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
@Fulcrum: NVM, I glazed over this post.
@Tubba: I don't know what you mean, either.
Assume that you’re scum and you know terrains is town. You need to create content about them, so you use a buzzword that doesn’t “mean” anything, in this example we’ll use “pure”. If you get questioned about it, you need to provide examples of what you meant by “pure”. Depending on how you respond to those questions can provide insight into whether it’s real or not. If you think the person asking you isn’t too bright or goofy, you might be looser with your response and provide more reality as opposed to artifice. Like when Colombo would always say, “Oh and there’s just one more thing...”
Huh. Cool idea, probably won't work because scum!Osie would always be aware of his full audience. I buy the thought process.
Kind of sad if it's just Azrael and Ter and then never even really played.
Why "Change my mind, Sloth"?
Why are you putting it on me to argue someone else's towniness without prodding the other person?
Why are you orchestrating a situation where the power dynamic is for me to prove to you that I'm town and for you to believe it?
Before you bring up that the two of us were discussing Tubba, my answer to that is "So what?"
The rest of this post falls in line with our discussion perfectly well, actually, it's that last sentence that shift things.
It becomes an expectation of sorts: A test with the undertone is that it's a foregone conclusion for me that I am town and that I should be seeking your approval.
Which is the sort of manipulative bs I expect from your scumgame lol. Specially since you're not even prodding the actual topic of the conversation, and if I were to take your interactions with him on their own, I don't even think you're particularly doubting him.
Admittedly it's been a while but yeah: "Liquid predator" is the correct term for your movements this game - not just in the above but in others in your ISO.
Which is why...I'm going to continue not voting for you and simply observe you and your reactions/actions following this post!
Won't that be nice? I think so.
Yeah, I'm annoyed, not in headspace to process this, and I'm out for the day. I'll be back by deadline.
This isn't a real contradiction with Osie. Not even his real point. Why are you pushing it, as if it is?
I push inconsistencies and things that ping me as anti town. It’s how I scum hunt. Applying pressure when something rubs you the wrong way isn’t some outlandish gameplay.
Ter continues to not remotely try to solve the game so my vote's not changing.
Ugh honestly you can **** right off with this. I find threads that seem loose and pick and pull at them. Is it a great strategy? probably not but its the one I have.
But later on, I realized I sorta felt a lack of anything, and then there was the questioning which felt easy.
I mean…the first few pages of the game are going to usually be fluff/***** posts/easy questions. It’s how the game gets going. What exactly are you looking for?
You think that if someone claims survivalist and they live to D2, the immediate town response is to lynch them d2?
My response is to pressure them and look at them closely not just rapid fire lynch. Logic states that if town got the survivor and they claim that th witches would be remiss to not role kill them and get a town power role out of the way. The only risk scum would have here is someone fake claiming to draw the RK NK which results in no kill…but that plunges town into an ugly mess of “no no no it was a FAKE claim you see!” in D2 which would be a chaotic anti town gambit.
It seems the kind of play I would try when I first started playing thinking it clever when it really just muddies up the water.
Well, I, for one, I'm scandalized at your hurtful words.
Ok, this starts with a not-unwarranted shade but no pressing,
Followed by a reasonable>defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable<defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable/defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable>defensive counter that's incomplete in that it's not considering all factors - though I don't believe that to be intentional,
Ended by OOG content.
Again, no game-solving, no pressing of anyone, no questions for reads, no reads with explanations behind them; deflection and jokes.
There's still a couple of days left in the Day, but at this rate you're set to be the lynch unless you start biting back. I know things are wild, but just keep it in mind.
I believe in you
I mean…the first few pages of the game are going to usually be fluff/***** posts/easy questions. It’s how the game gets going. What exactly are you looking for?
Someone who doesn't seem to be out of pace with the rest of the thread.
Azrael I wanna know what you saw that was so unbelieavably scummy for sloth before his 37#. What was it in 37 that you liked enough to change your mind from that?
My core reason for the vote becoming more serious is that Azrael feels particularly unengaged compared to my past experience with him as usually a town leader or at least an active voice. He explicitly seems to ask others to do his work for him.
Bruh. Working with other townies figure out how to arrive at correct reads is not "asking other people to do his work for him." Meta is incredibly important for results. If playing on in the site battles taught me one thing, it was that. Without a baseline to use for reads, it's really, really easy to make mistakes. Not that you can't play, but you fail to rule out aberrations that should be ruled out, and vice versa. It's incredibly helpful, and Sloth was absolutely being a team player helping me out there. Definitely helps to have that baseline.
Sloth, I missed responding to your question earlier. Osie's the only person who I'm familiar with here and played with before, so any assessments you can provide regarding levels of experience, interesting NAI quirks, typical tells, would be invaluable.
In case it isn't clear, my vote on Azrael is serious.
Didn't read where you voted me. I'm guessing it was short and unimportant, and also wrong. Pretty sure about the wrong part, actually. But would you care to explain why you're wrong about me? I'm all ears.
Umami's commentary on Sloth and Tubba seems to be an outsider point of view with their pointing out of the sorta mentoring that Sloth was doing. Umami's reactions to fulcrum does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. The aggression seems real. Umami's read on Sloth does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. Wary, but not knowing. Umami's read on Azrael feels very involved for early game despite Umami expressing a dislike for early game reads. I also don't believe that's on a scumbuddy.
Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.
Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.
Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.
My last game with Sloth was a semi-recent game in which he was scum and I was town. Sloth can post quite well as either alignment.
When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.
Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.
Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.
#77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.
The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.
If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.
Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.
Fulcrum's Azrael vote pinged me almost instantly as feeling a little forced for RVS. Fulcrum's interactions with Azrael were short-lived, but #82 is the interesting post here. If anything, it kinda feels like it goes in with Fulcrum talking about Azrael and then she just drops any thoughts about Azrael jarringly. I can't rule out that team as of #143. Okay, #146 gets there for me. That's legit.
Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.
I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.
I sorta talked about this already, but I figured I would go into detail again for perspective.
I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)
It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.
#30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.
Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.
Let it not be said that I don't try to draw blood from a stone. My initial read on TerRaine was very much trying to read into the interactions with Sloth and I think that muddied the waters on its strength.
I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.
Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.
The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.
But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.
Oh, Azrael. How I missed you. I might not have played in this game were it not for your presence. And yet, where is your presence! Where are the Azraels of yesteryear?
Interlude:
(Translation to avoid potential moderation)
I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.
Anyways...
Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.
Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.
#34 is another request for help with meta.
#39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.
#41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.
I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.
Scumlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.
I don't like doing effort reads, but dang what a post. I honestly just want to assume you're town and solve from there. Want to see more from Ter first. If you're scum, I'm seriously impressed. (someone should let me know if I'm too easily impressed)
Umami feels townish, the mechanics talk could be a way to create content without providing reads, but I don’t feel like that’s what’s happening here.
Fulcrum feels predatory. I’m not sure how to explain it, it’s just the vibe I’m getting from their posting.
Azrael hasn’t really stood out to me, I don’t have anything there yet.
Solid. This was an interesting analysis technique the few times I've seen it, probably needs layered into my repertoire. I think the days of my having time for that labor-intensive style have closed, though. Kids and running stuff. Pretty all-consuming pairing. But things are actually a tad bit less insane thanks to COVID, enough to squeeze in a 7-person mini, with a much lower analysis burden. That was a thought at least. Less need for dreadnoughts and PBPAs for accuracy.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
Oh, hello. Someone else whose name I don't recognize. I know, I know, pot-kettle. I always used to hate the lurkers, before I became one. Now, it's more like, "hello, fellow failure! Welcome!"
No you’re good, this is impressive and even more so if scum. I answered your question regarding my Osie question in a response to... someone else. Basically, wanted to grab Osie’s attention with one hand and make funny distracting hand motions with the other and see how they responded.
Well, that's like the most back-handed way of complimenting Osie and twisting his analysis into a scum-tell I've ever seen. I mean, Osie's good enough and it's within his meta enough that I can't put as much reliance on it as a town tell as I'm tempted to, but way to try to subtly plant that Osie's super dangerous scum in everyone's minds to undermine him.
I was pretty salty there, not gonna lie. It could’ve gone so differently if we had utilized day chat to actually coordinate as a team. Like, instead of hoping I would catch onto the in-thread plan before all star veteran Shadow, you could I dunno, just tell me the plan ahead of time...
And it was more of a tactical retreat than giving up. I’m not likely to thunderdome Shadow and the more I talked the more likely I was to spew. Just a very frustrating game.
Hunh. You know, there's this thing that scum do when they're in lurker mode at times. They scroll through the thread, looking for only the posts that impact them to address and to read, defensively.
@Azrael: Are we in for another wolfy pop-in or are you planning to be more active?
*level look* Hasn't there been some game or other lately that proved to you that the new, time-starved, economy-version Az is a real thing? I know ya'all want me to post so you can get reads on me. You don't have to harass me over it every game - or use it as a means to attack me even though you should be aware by now it's heavily NAI. *crosses arms* I will post when I can, and it will be informative about my mindset. I'm going to do my best. But you keep using this baseline comparison to student Azrael who stacked all his classes on two days a week, and had all of the remaining five to happily play mafia. In game after game. And I don't know if you really think that makes sense, as a townie, or if you're just using it as a scum tactic to plant suspicion in everyone's minds about my experience and activity level, as one of the only people who have played with me before.
Frankly, given that you seem to be suggesting that my current level of activity is somehow unusual, when I've barely been able to play one game a year for the past three years, I'd much rather people ask me questions about my meta directly than rely on these casual potshots.
I'm not sure I understand.
I would...presumably arrive to the same conclusions I did with Az based of the idea that if you don't know me, I don't know you either so I can only use the same analysis I used on him for you.
With the conditional that I do know you despite you not knowing me and with you acting the way Azrael has...I'd probably be very confused about you right about now: This certainty and voting on me right off the bat would be very unlike you and I would imagine you wouldn't do it as scum, but I also don't see why you're doing it as town. Reaction testing maybe? But so randomly on a player you don't know?
I'd probably have a scumlean on you due to the confusion.
But you're you and Azrael's Azrael.
Having answered this question, I'm even less sure of what you were hoping to gain as Town, so maybe this is one of the times you should be direct.
Classic townie response here. Hard-town read on Sloth solidifying further.
Anyway, I do love that Azrael gives out town credit for people writing long posts that give us a chance to read them and yet has written very, very little. Azrael, let me try to read you
Azrael is a hypocrite who used to spend way, way more time on the game and be much better than he is now, everyone misses the old version of him, and prefers it. Shadow of his former self type of thing. What else would you like to know? Pepper me with questions.
Also, looking back on some of the old tropes I used to engage in, I don't think I ever realized before how much I intentionally lied and exaggerated in my townie playstyle before. Like, an integral part of my old-school townie doctrine was to be really fake-aggressive to solicit information, going back like...fifteen years of my games. Which is fine, it gets results, starts conversations and info for the town, but it would also be really jarring for anyone who wasn't familiar with me doing that thing. I was reading through everyone trying to parse what I was doing there, and was just thinking to myself "Yup...that's gonna be real hard for them to figure out, isn't it?"
When you said this, what was your mindset? Gimme some detail here, so I can throw acid on you more effectively for this. kthxbye.
Current reads:
Town
Az
Sloth
umami
(non-POE)
Fulcrum
Osie
Tub
Terraine
Scum
We get what, three lynches ish, barring something role-related? Pretty good chance researching that bottom four should win this if I can concentrate some efforts on reading them more closely. *makes a face* Eh. *sigh* I miss not feeling guilty for spending time on frivolous things.
"Colombo shtick"
@Fulcrum: NVM, I glazed over this post.
@Tubba: I don't know what you mean, either.
Assume that you’re scum and you know terrains is town. You need to create content about them, so you use a buzzword that doesn’t “mean” anything, in this example we’ll use “pure”. If you get questioned about it, you need to provide examples of what you meant by “pure”. Depending on how you respond to those questions can provide insight into whether it’s real or not. If you think the person asking you isn’t too bright or goofy, you might be looser with your response and provide more reality as opposed to artifice. Like when Colombo would always say, “Oh and there’s just one more thing...”
Azrael (1): fulcrum
Tubba (1): umami
Not voting (3): az, terr, tubba
Deadline is noon PST may 30th (just under 4 days from this post)
I'm not sure I understand.
I would...presumably arrive to the same conclusions I did with Az based of the idea that if you don't know me, I don't know you either so I can only use the same analysis I used on him for you.
With the conditional that I do know you despite you not knowing me and with you acting the way Azrael has...I'd probably be very confused about you right about now: This certainty and voting on me right off the bat would be very unlike you and I would imagine you wouldn't do it as scum, but I also don't see why you're doing it as town. Reaction testing maybe? But so randomly on a player you don't know?
I'd probably have a scumlean on you due to the confusion.
But you're you and Azrael's Azrael.
Having answered this question, I'm even less sure of what you were hoping to gain as Town, so maybe this is one of the times you should be direct.
I'm not really interested in convincing you Tubba's town - he's a big boy and can do it himself.
This is more about you convincing me that he's (possibly) scum. Which. Hm. I think I will address that a bit.
"Change my mind, Sloth" huh? Interesting.
This is Tubba's ISO from Matter, which you are familiar with. In it, you find that his scumgame has facets of:
Either way, Differences.
By contrast, here's the ISO from Prison, where Tubba was town. You only need to skim the last page (#4) for you to get a striking sense of familiarity.
Tubba is displaying no certainty one way or another on possibilities, as shown on #30, and he's not dropping it, rather continuing to work out things on #53. I'm not sensing any TMI - all in all the similarities you point out between this and Last, considering the above plus the fact he's not seemingly leaning towards anyone strongly for voting, means that it's surface only at most.
His biggest point of contention is actually that he has no stances, which, while annoying, is NAI for him. @Tubba though I do expect that to change fairly soon.
I only have a bit more experience with Tubba than with you (like, 1-2 games tops). I have also seen him in more alignments that I've seen you, which is the important factor: Like I said, I don't know what scum you looks like so everything looks at least a little scummy, and you are a strong enough player, I think, that none of what you're doing now would be impossible for you as scum. That's pretty much it.
If you notice though, I'm slowly easing off.
Posted 7 minutes after the last post.
Hm. Okay.
What is it that you feel is happening with Umami, then?
Who are you reading as scum, if any?
Where will your vote land?
What does #162 do for you as far as Osie?
Also I think you missed a question meant for you.
I remember what you were saying about your vote, Umami, but you still went from voting her (albeit until something better came long) to sort-of-but-not-really-since-she-didn't-vote-but-you-used-her-points following her? What does this mean for your read on Fonti?
Possibly opportunistic...possibly excited (why? you were unsure on her?) mindmeld.
Umami. /shakes fist
Also with only two (Azrael and Ter) as partners to a varying but reasonable degree and one (fonti) as tinfoil.
Two (or three) is not exactly everyone.
...what aren't I getting, I must know now.
@Font sis, ya wolfin'?
Be honest. Why "Change my mind, Sloth"?
Why are you putting it on me to argue someone else's towniness without prodding the other person?
Why are you orchestrating a situation where the power dynamic is for me to prove to you that I'm town and for you to believe it?
Before you bring up that the two of us were discussing Tubba, my answer to that is "So what?"
The rest of this post falls in line with our discussion perfectly well, actually, it's that last sentence that shift things.
It becomes an expectation of sorts: A test with the undertone is that it's a foregone conclusion for me that I am town and that I should be seeking your approval.
Which is the sort of manipulative bs I expect from your scumgame lol. Specially since you're not even prodding the actual topic of the conversation, and if I were to take your interactions with him on their own, I don't even think you're particularly doubting him.
Admittedly it's been a while but yeah: "Liquid predator" is the correct term for your movements this game - not just in the above but in others in your ISO.
Which is why...I'm going to continue not voting for you and simply observe you and your reactions/actions following this post!
Won't that be nice? I think so.
Plus I know for a fact why at least Ter is not posting, so it's already not worth thinking about.
As for an Azrael/Ter pairing: Unsure. Ter totally fooled me in Prison until literally seconds before the Night Kill hit me so I should not be considered an expert there, nor should I be followed unless you have your own reasons to.
The only interaction between the two that comes to mind is Ter stepping in to low-key defend me to Azrael. Which is nothing as far as alignments, though possibly more likely to come with scum-her having been caught by me than otherwise.
Bruh. I was responding to /your/ request.
Huh. Cool idea, probably won't work because scum!Osie would always be aware of his full audience. I buy the thought process.
Kind of sad if it's just Azrael and Ter and then never even really played.
You know, on account of me being so old.
Yeah, I'm annoyed, not in headspace to process this, and I'm out for the day. I'll be back by deadline.
That reaction (almost nearly pretty much) removes all doubt.
Is it really just Ter and (by poe) Azrael?
How...easy.
This is a cop out answer.
“Why are you reading someone this way?”
“Cause I am til I’m not”
I push inconsistencies and things that ping me as anti town. It’s how I scum hunt. Applying pressure when something rubs you the wrong way isn’t some outlandish gameplay.
Ugh honestly you can **** right off with this. I find threads that seem loose and pick and pull at them. Is it a great strategy? probably not but its the one I have.
I mean…the first few pages of the game are going to usually be fluff/***** posts/easy questions. It’s how the game gets going. What exactly are you looking for?
My response is to pressure them and look at them closely not just rapid fire lynch. Logic states that if town got the survivor and they claim that th witches would be remiss to not role kill them and get a town power role out of the way. The only risk scum would have here is someone fake claiming to draw the RK NK which results in no kill…but that plunges town into an ugly mess of “no no no it was a FAKE claim you see!” in D2 which would be a chaotic anti town gambit.
It seems the kind of play I would try when I first started playing thinking it clever when it really just muddies up the water.
We're actually kind of ********s but thank you for the compliment
Ok, this starts with a not-unwarranted shade but no pressing,
Followed by a reasonable>defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable<defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable/defensive counter,
Followed by a reasonable>defensive counter that's incomplete in that it's not considering all factors - though I don't believe that to be intentional,
Ended by OOG content.
Again, no game-solving, no pressing of anyone, no questions for reads, no reads with explanations behind them; deflection and jokes.
There's still a couple of days left in the Day, but at this rate you're set to be the lynch unless you start biting back. I know things are wild, but just keep it in mind.
I believe in you
Someone who doesn't seem to be out of pace with the rest of the thread.
Hard to pressure someone when they're not present. You worry about yourself
What are your thoughts on players other than Azrael, Ter?
If you want to do a quick rainbow to illustrate, all the better
Bruh. Working with other townies figure out how to arrive at correct reads is not "asking other people to do his work for him." Meta is incredibly important for results. If playing on in the site battles taught me one thing, it was that. Without a baseline to use for reads, it's really, really easy to make mistakes. Not that you can't play, but you fail to rule out aberrations that should be ruled out, and vice versa. It's incredibly helpful, and Sloth was absolutely being a team player helping me out there. Definitely helps to have that baseline.
Sloth, I missed responding to your question earlier. Osie's the only person who I'm familiar with here and played with before, so any assessments you can provide regarding levels of experience, interesting NAI quirks, typical tells, would be invaluable.
Didn't read where you voted me. I'm guessing it was short and unimportant, and also wrong. Pretty sure about the wrong part, actually. But would you care to explain why you're wrong about me? I'm all ears.
Yeah, I hate playing on mobile. Auto-corrected.
Solid. This was an interesting analysis technique the few times I've seen it, probably needs layered into my repertoire. I think the days of my having time for that labor-intensive style have closed, though. Kids and running stuff. Pretty all-consuming pairing. But things are actually a tad bit less insane thanks to COVID, enough to squeeze in a 7-person mini, with a much lower analysis burden. That was a thought at least. Less need for dreadnoughts and PBPAs for accuracy.
Oh, hello. Someone else whose name I don't recognize. I know, I know, pot-kettle. I always used to hate the lurkers, before I became one. Now, it's more like, "hello, fellow failure! Welcome!"
Well, that's like the most back-handed way of complimenting Osie and twisting his analysis into a scum-tell I've ever seen. I mean, Osie's good enough and it's within his meta enough that I can't put as much reliance on it as a town tell as I'm tempted to, but way to try to subtly plant that Osie's super dangerous scum in everyone's minds to undermine him.
Hunh. You know, there's this thing that scum do when they're in lurker mode at times. They scroll through the thread, looking for only the posts that impact them to address and to read, defensively.
*level look* Hasn't there been some game or other lately that proved to you that the new, time-starved, economy-version Az is a real thing? I know ya'all want me to post so you can get reads on me. You don't have to harass me over it every game - or use it as a means to attack me even though you should be aware by now it's heavily NAI. *crosses arms* I will post when I can, and it will be informative about my mindset. I'm going to do my best. But you keep using this baseline comparison to student Azrael who stacked all his classes on two days a week, and had all of the remaining five to happily play mafia. In game after game. And I don't know if you really think that makes sense, as a townie, or if you're just using it as a scum tactic to plant suspicion in everyone's minds about my experience and activity level, as one of the only people who have played with me before.
Frankly, given that you seem to be suggesting that my current level of activity is somehow unusual, when I've barely been able to play one game a year for the past three years, I'd much rather people ask me questions about my meta directly than rely on these casual potshots.
Classic townie response here. Hard-town read on Sloth solidifying further.
Azrael is a hypocrite who used to spend way, way more time on the game and be much better than he is now, everyone misses the old version of him, and prefers it. Shadow of his former self type of thing. What else would you like to know? Pepper me with questions.
Also, looking back on some of the old tropes I used to engage in, I don't think I ever realized before how much I intentionally lied and exaggerated in my townie playstyle before. Like, an integral part of my old-school townie doctrine was to be really fake-aggressive to solicit information, going back like...fifteen years of my games. Which is fine, it gets results, starts conversations and info for the town, but it would also be really jarring for anyone who wasn't familiar with me doing that thing. I was reading through everyone trying to parse what I was doing there, and was just thinking to myself "Yup...that's gonna be real hard for them to figure out, isn't it?"
Hey, fulcrum.
When you said this, what was your mindset? Gimme some detail here, so I can throw acid on you more effectively for this. kthxbye.
Current reads:
Town
Az
Sloth
umami
(non-POE)
Fulcrum
Osie
Tub
Terraine
Scum
We get what, three lynches ish, barring something role-related? Pretty good chance researching that bottom four should win this if I can concentrate some efforts on reading them more closely. *makes a face* Eh. *sigh* I miss not feeling guilty for spending time on frivolous things.