Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
For that matter, could you give me a rough ordered list for the players? I have a few in particular for whom I'm wondering about your read positioning based on your posts, but I'll talk about that later.
Sure: Tubba
Azrael
Umami
Fulcrum
Osi
Terraine
In that order - potential unaligned pairings in Ter/you, font/umami, but none of them solidly so.
D1 Solve in Micro is too common to NL, IMO. Also I'm pretty sure that we don't really have enough phases usually, even with the two extra life roles in this setup.
D1 Solve in Micro is too common to NL, IMO. Also I'm pretty sure that we don't really have enough phases usually, even with the two extra life roles in this setup.
Sorry, not sure what this means?
I expect that I can have a game-winningly accurate 3 person PoE by the end of D1.
Hummm. I can see a certain chillness in these that could be charitably interpreted as pureness.
Ok, if not Ter: Do you think Osie's assessments are legitimate?
This is more in general, not just on the pure comment, which you've more or less answered here.
I believe Azrael has been around for a long time, and is generally considered to be good. I think the push on you was posturing, regardless of alignment, and it was easy, push the guy talking the most, people think you're town because why would mafia do that? I don't find him backing off particularly townie, because I doubt he was actually all that tunneled on you in the first place. This is more feels that actual reasoning.
Fair.
Given your vote is "quite serious" you're putting a lot of stock in feels - meaning no one else is striking you as more of a valid read, would you say that's correct?
Would recommend checking out Umami's push on me, I think it was genuinely confident and townie. As she's stated, relatively few of my games have been with her, but a lot of her games have been with me, and I think she'd be a little scared to push like that during her first scum game. Also, I think I kind of get her tone? The contradictions remind me a lot of my first few games, way back in the day.
No strong reason to disagree here, aside from the scared bit - I honestly expect Umami to play scum with a side of fearlessness. But that's not relevant in light of everything else.
...wait no I got it right the first time. ...damnit, English is also hard.
I mean that it's very possible I'mm townreading at least one scum, but if I'm not... you get it.
Shut up.
...wait no I got it right the first time. ...damnit, English is also hard.
I mean that it's very possible I'mm townreading at least one scum, but if I'm not... you get it.
Shut up.
Why are you townreading Azrael? As the player probably most familiar with Azrael, I haven't gotten there on him in my first 2-3 ISOs. I'm about to ISO again for the purpose of the wallpost, but I'm just puzzling as to how you have him as your second towniest player.
Why are you townreading Azrael? As the player probably most familiar with Azrael, I haven't gotten there on him in my first 2-3 ISOs. I'm about to ISO again for the purpose of the wallpost, but I'm just puzzling as to how you have him as your second towniest player.
I've gone over this a couple of times already - you can probably just refer to those posts, as they're still the core of my read.
Of note is that I've had zero experience with Azrael aside from this game so I'm reading him entirely on what I've observed. The only oog info I'm applying to him is the knowledge that he's a strong player and veteran to the site.
Of note II: You should look at his positioning on the wall as more to do with what others have done to make me townread them over what he has done to make me townread him (i.e. not particularly stronger reads, honestly.)
Of note III: Also as mentioned is that my reads are evolving and moving around, and the one I have on him had a strong start, but it is waning over time. Currently still at town>rand, but
His comeback is the one I'm looking forward to the most in order to reassess or solidify.
Umami's commentary on Sloth and Tubba seems to be an outsider point of view with their pointing out of the sorta mentoring that Sloth was doing. Umami's reactions to fulcrum does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. The aggression seems real. Umami's read on Sloth does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. Wary, but not knowing. Umami's read on Azrael feels very involved for early game despite Umami expressing a dislike for early game reads. I also don't believe that's on a scumbuddy.
Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.
Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.
Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.
My last game with Sloth was a semi-recent game in which he was scum and I was town. Sloth can post quite well as either alignment.
When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.
Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.
Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.
#77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.
The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.
If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.
Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.
Fulcrum's Azrael vote pinged me almost instantly as feeling a little forced for RVS. Fulcrum's interactions with Azrael were short-lived, but #82 is the interesting post here. If anything, it kinda feels like it goes in with Fulcrum talking about Azrael and then she just drops any thoughts about Azrael jarringly. I can't rule out that team as of #143. Okay, #146 gets there for me. That's legit.
Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.
I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.
I sorta talked about this already, but I figured I would go into detail again for perspective.
I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)
It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.
#30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.
Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.
Let it not be said that I don't try to draw blood from a stone. My initial read on TerRaine was very much trying to read into the interactions with Sloth and I think that muddied the waters on its strength.
I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.
Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.
The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.
But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.
Oh, Azrael. How I missed you. I might not have played in this game were it not for your presence. And yet, where is your presence! Where are the Azraels of yesteryear?
Interlude:
Sloth, n'enquerez de sepmaine
Où ils sont, ne de cest an,
Qu'à ce refrain ne vous remaine:
Mais, où sont les Azraels d'antan!
(Translation to avoid potential moderation)
Sloth, do not ask me in the whole week
Where they are, neither in this whole year.
Lest I bring you back to this refrain:
Oh, where are the Azraels of yesteryear?!
I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.
Anyways...
Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.
Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.
#34 is another request for help with meta.
#39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.
#41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.
I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.
Scumlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.
Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.
Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.
I don't put weight on early reads in the early game. I think their only purpose is to see how poeople respond to pressure and try to get a read of of that and to retrospectively analyze interactions once you have some flips. I think anyone who is genuinely confident in their early reads is lying to themselves about something, but if they're just projecting confidence or whatever it's fine--you do you as they say
I'm not getting the same sense of conviction from Azrael that you and Umami seem to be getting. Kind of feeling like Umami is more prickly than I expected. (The initial negative comment about Azrael, "Dude, you've played with me before," stressed about "already being on people's scumlist," "lying to themselves, "don't care either way.") Word choices lean more negative than positive. Thought about it potentially being a response to rolling scum for the first time, doubting that thought because one of the few things she was positive about was the idea of rolling scum. I'm not at the murder her for christmas stage.
Fonti, fonti, I think you’re not getting my tone, which is fair because it’s pretty neutral/dry, so it’s pretty malleable in terms of being read however the reader wants. Take last game for example, Sloth thought I was being super negative compared to prior games whereas Tom just thought I was about the same/read my comments in a jokey way. In terms of what I felt while I was writing and what I intended, Tom got the read right.
I was just joking about Azrael because I thought it was funny how he said he was super confident until he changed his mind, which I liked. His description of himself reminds me of Rhand a bit actually and Rhand is a ton of fun to play with. That plus I seem to be called out for being wish washy every day 1 I’ve every played is why I made it. It was just a contrast in playing styles and a throwaway joke—it wasn’t some deep analysis or anything. Maybe I shouldn’t post stuff like that since it’s not a read and isn’t progressing the game, but it’s the start of day 1 and it’s just what came to mind so I did.
I'm not entirely sure how to take the two bolded statements above but...this is something of a contradiction, isn't it? I've been guilty of not getting what Umami is driving at sometimes, but this is clear.
Prior to the second bolded statement, I would not have assumed the situation with Azrael was meant to be a joke: Even where she's saying she's being sarcastic about syncing well with his playstyle, it's not in a way that makes me think she's looking forward to engaging with it.
It all fall in line with the first bolded statement. Where she almost seems to be annoyed by it.
The mention of rhand specifically is off, as in the last two games she's displayed exasperation at the way he plays, rather than enjoyment (she likes rhand, but she's often frustrated at his playstyle, not something I would have assumed she sees as "a lot of fun to play with")
One thing's for certain, there is a 3/8ths chance that scum have survivalist, meaning that they will never use their guess the role to get a double kill thing and that they know not to use that ability
I'm not great at math, but just to confirm: Given this and later posts you make, did you forget this is a 7-player game with only 2 scum?
I don't put weight on early reads in the early game. I think their only purpose is to see how poeople respond to pressure and try to get a read of of that and to retrospectively analyze interactions once you have some flips. I think anyone who is genuinely confident in their early reads is lying to themselves about something, but if they're just projecting confidence or whatever it's fine--you do you as they say
I'm not getting the same sense of conviction from Azrael that you and Umami seem to be getting. Kind of feeling like Umami is more prickly than I expected. (The initial negative comment about Azrael, "Dude, you've played with me before," stressed about "already being on people's scumlist," "lying to themselves, "don't care either way.") Word choices lean more negative than positive. Thought about it potentially being a response to rolling scum for the first time, doubting that thought because one of the few things she was positive about was the idea of rolling scum. I'm not at the murder her for christmas stage.
Fonti, fonti, I think you’re not getting my tone, which is fair because it’s pretty neutral/dry, so it’s pretty malleable in terms of being read however the reader wants. Take last game for example, Sloth thought I was being super negative compared to prior games whereas Tom just thought I was about the same/read my comments in a jokey way. In terms of what I felt while I was writing and what I intended, Tom got the read right.
I was just joking about Azrael because I thought it was funny how he said he was super confident until he changed his mind, which I liked. His description of himself reminds me of Rhand a bit actually and Rhand is a ton of fun to play with. That plus I seem to be called out for being wish washy every day 1 I’ve every played is why I made it. It was just a contrast in playing styles and a throwaway joke—it wasn’t some deep analysis or anything. Maybe I shouldn’t post stuff like that since it’s not a read and isn’t progressing the game, but it’s the start of day 1 and it’s just what came to mind so I did.
I'm not entirely sure how to take the two bolded statements above but...this is something of a contradiction, isn't it? I've been guilty of not getting what Umami is driving at sometimes, but this is clear.
Prior to the second bolded statement, I would not have assumed the situation with Azrael was meant to be a joke: Even where she's saying she's being sarcastic about syncing well with his playstyle, it's not in a way that makes me think she's looking forward to engaging with it.
It all fall in line with the first bolded statement. Where she almost seems to be annoyed by it.
The mention of rhand specifically is off, as in the last two games she's displayed exasperation at the way he plays, rather than enjoyment (she likes rhand, but she's often frustrated at his playstyle, not something I would have assumed she sees as "a lot of fun to play with")
One thing's for certain, there is a 3/8ths chance that scum have survivalist, meaning that they will never use their guess the role to get a double kill thing and that they know not to use that ability
I'm not great at math, but just to confirm: Given this and later posts you make, did you forget this is a 7-player game with only 2 scum?
Ah, you were thinking of having the Survivalist claim and then clearing them?
yeah
Why are either of you being this overt?
Oh, yeah, no doubt Rhand can drive me crazy at times but that doesn't mean it's not a ton of fun too--not at all mutually exclusive to me
I think part of it is that I haven't played against scum rhand yet I think and I really don't want him to pocket or trick me or whatever when I do so I'm a little paranoid about not being able to distinguish his playstyle
I'm not getting the same sense of conviction from Azrael that you and Umami seem to be getting. Kind of feeling like Umami is more prickly than I expected. (The initial negative comment about Azrael, "Dude, you've played with me before," stressed about "already being on people's scumlist," "lying to themselves, "don't care either way.") Word choices lean more negative than positive. Thought about it potentially being a response to rolling scum for the first time, doubting that thought because one of the few things she was positive about was the idea of rolling scum.
Azrael hasn't posted in a while and that's waning my read a bit, but it is a holiday weekend so what can you do.
In regards to conviction, he seemed deadset on me being scum/"scummy" without concern about backing it up with any actual statements - and backed off without fighting, leaving a real sense of "burst balloon" on the post where he unvoted me, which I'm choosing to see as confident town realizing his read was crap. I mentioned in an earlier post how the scummy motivation can still be there and that's still true, but this is what I mean as far as conviction goes. Do you see it differently, and if so, how?
Regarding the bolded statement on Umami: Funnily enough, this is pretty much the case I made on Umami last game, Matter Mafia. Spoiler alert, she was town and I only arrived to that conclusion not because of her actions, but mostly out of POE. I did notice the same things you are here, but I'm deciding they are NAI for her. You seem to have gotten to that conclussion on your own anyway.
Still doesn't mean she's town btw - she's good at set-up analysis, as shown in Avalon. But...I'm not sure what a scumgame from her looks like.
I suspect I'm going to scumread her almost every game until she's actually scum 'cause I don't know what that looks like.
I don't know either, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be the most excited for any day 1 I've ever played
Not gonna comment on the claims conversation. I see some issues but since no one is expressing interest in doing so, not really something that needs to be talked about more than necessary.
I'm trying to figure out if Umami on Fonti is just a repeat of what she was doing in Mountainous - reasons seem largely the same - or if she has a legitimate point this time.
I do notice Fonti is focusing on set-up discussion and not engaging other players enough. /prods Font with a stick be more social.
Hottake: NL D1 to confirm Judge? We decide who the judge should hit before Day end.
Helps to figure out alignment
Less risk on D1 than any other day.
Thoughts?
Yeah, I'm pretty null on fonti right now--will change my vote once I feel like I know where I want it to go. I don't know, I don't want to read her wrong twice for the same reason but, while similar in overall tone/vibe to that game's statement, it did just read as weird to me. Like saying, 'hey UT and GD need to carefully consider when to reveal"/balance maximizing info with actually getting the info to us before they're killed seems like a very fair thing to point out. The 'hey guys, when UT and GD claim, we need to go back and see if their actions are consistent with their claim' seems like fluff, but then again if she is really that scared of getting nightkilled night 1 then I guess it's cautious but she could also just want the opportunity to play up how scared she is of getting nightkilled, so, yeah, probably NAI ultimately.
Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
Tubba, you seem a bit timid this game. This quote in particular is one I also noticed. Like I get the 'hate to drag this up' thing in the context of Osi already being asked this and not fully answering, but it does seem like uber cautious/almost overly polite. So, since I should prob ask a question, why so hesitant?
Umami's commentary on Sloth and Tubba seems to be an outsider point of view with their pointing out of the sorta mentoring that Sloth was doing. Umami's reactions to fulcrum does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. The aggression seems real. Umami's read on Sloth does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. Wary, but not knowing. Umami's read on Azrael feels very involved for early game despite Umami expressing a dislike for early game reads. I also don't believe that's on a scumbuddy.
Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.
Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.
Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.
My last game with Sloth was a semi-recent game in which he was scum and I was town. Sloth can post quite well as either alignment.
When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.
Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.
Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.
#77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.
The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.
If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.
Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.
Fulcrum's Azrael vote pinged me almost instantly as feeling a little forced for RVS. Fulcrum's interactions with Azrael were short-lived, but #82 is the interesting post here. If anything, it kinda feels like it goes in with Fulcrum talking about Azrael and then she just drops any thoughts about Azrael jarringly. I can't rule out that team as of #143. Okay, #146 gets there for me. That's legit.
Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.
I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.
I sorta talked about this already, but I figured I would go into detail again for perspective.
I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)
It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.
#30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.
Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.
Let it not be said that I don't try to draw blood from a stone. My initial read on TerRaine was very much trying to read into the interactions with Sloth and I think that muddied the waters on its strength.
I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.
Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.
The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.
But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.
Oh, Azrael. How I missed you. I might not have played in this game were it not for your presence. And yet, where is your presence! Where are the Azraels of yesteryear?
Interlude:
Sloth, n'enquerez de sepmaine
Où ils sont, ne de cest an,
Qu'à ce refrain ne vous remaine:
Mais, où sont les Azraels d'antan!
(Translation to avoid potential moderation)
Sloth, do not ask me in the whole week
Where they are, neither in this whole year.
Lest I bring you back to this refrain:
Oh, where are the Azraels of yesteryear?!
I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.
Anyways...
Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.
Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.
#34 is another request for help with meta.
#39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.
#41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.
I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.
Scumlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.
I don't like doing effort reads, but dang what a post. I honestly just want to assume you're town and solve from there. Want to see more from Ter first. If you're scum, I'm seriously impressed. (someone should let me know if I'm too easily impressed)
I will forgive you for this trespass, for your mind is old and has turned to dust.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
Context: Our group consider humor about my age to be the height of comedy.
She's just making a joke about me being old because she's a hack, and I take it in admirable stride!
I've gotten her much worse, and will continue to, just you wait. Plus it has nothing on the vile, truly disturbing ***** Ter and I call each other with nothing but love on a daily basis.
Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.
Well. As far as comebacks to help solidify reads go, this one certainly... ...yep.
Eh, I'm still not looking to strongly reassess anything until after today where people should be more reliable to post.
Oh, he's definitely scummy. The mislynch would be going after someone instead of him. But I'm being fair, and giving him a chance to help me make the wrong play. To mislynch, instead of just nailing scum d1.
I honestly don't see how scum makes this post off the bat.
Plus town to Miami and fulcrum for the walls of text, giving us the tools to read them. Keeping an eye on terraine, if she replied to my question, I missed that.
Well. As far as comebacks to help solidify reads go, this one certainly... ...yep.
Eh, I'm still not looking to strongly reassess anything until after today where people should be more reliable to post.
Oh, he's definitely scummy. The mislynch would be going after someone instead of him. But I'm being fair, and giving him a chance to help me make the wrong play. To mislynch, instead of just nailing scum d1.
I honestly don't see how scum makes this post off the bat.
Ok, now imagine it was me making Azrael's posts. Assume I don't know you well. What would you think my alignment was?
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
P.S. Had you not seen #173 before posting this?
I hadn't seen #173 until a few seconds ago. I'm not sure if it's just me, but the site seems to drop posts sometimes. I think it happens when I don't refresh after posting.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
Alright, I went through Tubba's iso. I'm not seeing this huge difference. He reacted pretty woodenly to being outed, he had a bit of a tmi problem with going after Last at the beginning, and his thought process was very linear (I think fluff in the Marvel thing game on MU is the best comparison here). It's the same linearity of focus I noticed in this game, and it makes Ter a likely partner. The joking out the gate here is different, I'm not seeing any of that lightness in Matter. Looks like he joined the thread during an intense bit on page 6 there, though, whereas here we were just ******* around. I could see the difference in tone being caused by that alone.
Meh, agree for the most part. There does seem to be a noticeable change to me but in a way I would expect if he rolled scum again and was worried about getting caught early again.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
Sloth, how strong is your strongest townread? What makes Tubba easy to read in his few posts? And, not to be too narcissistic, but what makes me so difficult to read? I'm assuming you have as much if not more experience playing with me compared to Tubba, but correct me if that's totally wrong
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
Sloth, how strong is your strongest townread? What makes Tubba easy to read in his few posts? And, not to be too narcissistic, but what makes me so difficult to read? I'm assuming you have as much if not more experience playing with me compared to Tubba, but correct me if that's totally wrong
Actually, unless you want to answer or have a strong reason/explanation feel free to ignore that
Yeah, there's almost nothing here. Tubba has one post in response to Sloth's question where he waffled on Sloth and Ter. He has some suspicion about Sloth pocketing him, uses the word pocket twice. Not sure whether it's genuine, I would maybe give him some town points for it.
I hate to drag this up, maybe you don’t have much else to say about it? What felt “pure” about Terrence’s posts? Could you point to an example? It doesn’t gel with my feelings about their posts, in that they seemed wooden and while fake isn’t the word, but neither is “pure” if you follow me.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
Umami's commentary on Sloth and Tubba seems to be an outsider point of view with their pointing out of the sorta mentoring that Sloth was doing. Umami's reactions to fulcrum does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. The aggression seems real. Umami's read on Sloth does not feel like handling of a scumbuddy. Wary, but not knowing. Umami's read on Azrael feels very involved for early game despite Umami expressing a dislike for early game reads. I also don't believe that's on a scumbuddy.
Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.
Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.
Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.
My last game with Sloth was a semi-recent game in which he was scum and I was town. Sloth can post quite well as either alignment.
When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.
Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.
Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.
#77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.
The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.
If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.
Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.
Fulcrum's Azrael vote pinged me almost instantly as feeling a little forced for RVS. Fulcrum's interactions with Azrael were short-lived, but #82 is the interesting post here. If anything, it kinda feels like it goes in with Fulcrum talking about Azrael and then she just drops any thoughts about Azrael jarringly. I can't rule out that team as of #143. Okay, #146 gets there for me. That's legit.
Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.
I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.
I sorta talked about this already, but I figured I would go into detail again for perspective.
I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)
It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.
#30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.
Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.
Let it not be said that I don't try to draw blood from a stone. My initial read on TerRaine was very much trying to read into the interactions with Sloth and I think that muddied the waters on its strength.
I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.
Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.
The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.
But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.
Oh, Azrael. How I missed you. I might not have played in this game were it not for your presence. And yet, where is your presence! Where are the Azraels of yesteryear?
Interlude:
Sloth, n'enquerez de sepmaine
Où ils sont, ne de cest an,
Qu'à ce refrain ne vous remaine:
Mais, où sont les Azraels d'antan!
(Translation to avoid potential moderation)
Sloth, do not ask me in the whole week
Where they are, neither in this whole year.
Lest I bring you back to this refrain:
Oh, where are the Azraels of yesteryear?!
I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.
Anyways...
Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.
Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.
#34 is another request for help with meta.
#39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.
#41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.
I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.
Scumlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.
I don't like doing effort reads, but dang what a post. I honestly just want to assume you're town and solve from there. Want to see more from Ter first. If you're scum, I'm seriously impressed. (someone should let me know if I'm too easily impressed)
No you’re good, this is impressive and even more so if scum. I answered your question regarding my Osie question in a response to... someone else. Basically, wanted to grab Osie’s attention with one hand and make funny distracting hand motions with the other and see how they responded.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
If you have like 30 mins or so you can do a quick ISO on him on Matter mafia. He was scum there and had very few posts. In addition he got caught by PRs at start of D2 and immediately stopped trying so you can stop reading then. Difference is stark and obvious.
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
I was pretty salty there, not gonna lie. It could’ve gone so differently if we had utilized day chat to actually coordinate as a team. Like, instead of hoping I would catch onto the in-thread plan before all star veteran Shadow, you could I dunno, just tell me the plan ahead of time...
And it was more of a tactical retreat than giving up. I’m not likely to thunderdome Shadow and the more I talked the more likely I was to spew. Just a very frustrating game.
The "I hate to drag this up" is weird. Could you explain what you were thinking there, Tubba? The line of question indicates he has other thoughts on Ter that match up with his earlier response to Sloth. I actually find that kind of consistency from early game to a bit later in it to be somewhat scummy, but it depends on where he goes with this, same as the pocketing comments.
He has very little independent content. This isn't stuff I'm going to get a read on.
Tubba
Azrael
Umami
Fulcrum
Osi
Terraine
In that order - potential unaligned pairings in Ter/you, font/umami, but none of them solidly so.
Sorry, not sure what this means?
I expect that I can have a game-winningly accurate 3 person PoE by the end of D1.
(cue Gemma fanning herself in the background)
Any thoughts on D1 Judge?
Ok, if not Ter: Do you think Osie's assessments are legitimate?
This is more in general, not just on the pure comment, which you've more or less answered here.
Fair.
Given your vote is "quite serious" you're putting a lot of stock in feels - meaning no one else is striking you as more of a valid read, would you say that's correct?
No strong reason to disagree here, aside from the scared bit - I honestly expect Umami to play scum with a side of fearlessness. But that's not relevant in light of everything else.
In the (fairly unlikely) event I'm not townreading anyone incorrectly, that would just leave Fonti/Ter as the scumteam.
Lolwhat.
I mean that it's very possible I'mm townreading at least one scum, but if I'm not... you get it.
Shut up.
Why are you townreading Azrael? As the player probably most familiar with Azrael, I haven't gotten there on him in my first 2-3 ISOs. I'm about to ISO again for the purpose of the wallpost, but I'm just puzzling as to how you have him as your second towniest player.
Azrael (2): osi, fulcrum
Terraine (1): sloth
Fulcrum (1): umami
Not voting (3): az, terr, tubba
Deadline is noon PST may 30th (5 days from this post)
My vote isn't "quite serious," it's just serious.
I've gone over this a couple of times already - you can probably just refer to those posts, as they're still the core of my read.
Of note is that I've had zero experience with Azrael aside from this game so I'm reading him entirely on what I've observed. The only oog info I'm applying to him is the knowledge that he's a strong player and veteran to the site.
Of note II: You should look at his positioning on the wall as more to do with what others have done to make me townread them over what he has done to make me townread him (i.e. not particularly stronger reads, honestly.)
Of note III: Also as mentioned is that my reads are evolving and moving around, and the one I have on him had a strong start, but it is waning over time. Currently still at town>rand, but
His comeback is the one I'm looking forward to the most in order to reassess or solidify.
If there's a discontinuity between this post and previous thoughts it's probably nothing because it comes from a different thought process.
I should probably write down my reasoning as I go instead of doing it all in my head and then going back and having to do it all again...
Oh well!
Unsorted Team POE:
Azrael-Fulcrum
Azrael-Sloth
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Azrael-Umami
Fulcrum-Sloth
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Fulcrum-Umami
Sloth-Ter
Sloth-Tubba
Sloth-Umami
Ter-Tubba
Ter-Umami
Tubba-Umami
Okay, now let's sort. I'll go through ISOs in order of most posts to least posts (at the time of initially starting to write this post).
Umami's ISO:
Umami's mechanics discussion with TerRaine feels like it would be done in scumchat if they were buddies. Tentatively not scumbuddies.
Umami has zero interaction towards Tubba outside of the Sloth mentor comment. I'm leaving that team in the POE, but low because I think Umami is probably just town.
Umami in general seems to be actively sorting people. I like their handling of fulcrum in particular. It feels quite genuine. I can't quite rule out enough teams to fully be comfortable with calling Umami a top!town read, but I think that I can comfortably say I soft townread here.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Fulcrum
Azrael-Sloth
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Fulcrum-Sloth
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Sloth-Ter
Sloth-Tubba
Ter-Tubba
Tubba-Umami
Meh:
Ter-Umami
Sloth's ISO.
When I first read Sloth and TerRaine, I was like "There's no way that both of these people are town." Then I reconsidered given that I know they are close friends. I don't think I can separate that element from their Page 1 interactions, unfortunately, so I don't get a lot out of them, but that visceral "At least one of these players may be faking this" is still lingering.
Sloth's handling of Tubba started out pinging me as being too controlled. I was particularly paranoid of Sloth due to posts like #26. But I think that it goes a little too far to be scum theater. I can't entirely rule out that team on principle, but I sorta believe that there's a little bit too much detail and substance to their interactions to be a likely team.
Sloth's handling of Azrael feels like two people who haven't interacted in a scumchat yet. Particularly #37 and somewhat #43. The focus on my vote on Azrael is a little concerning to me, but it's not an alarm bell yet. There's no way #133 is a bus, though. Striking this one off the list.
#77, #132, and the Tubba interactions about Ter are a good look for Sloth as trying to sort Ter. The scumread feels legitimate. In particular there's not a macro-micro contradiction with how he seems to be thinking about Ter this game.
The way Sloth is questioning Umami feels like Town who thinks they might be on to something. It's definitely not how I would expect him to handle her if they were buddies.
If Sloth and fulcrum are buddies, I feel like it's better for Sloth to let fulcrum do her thing rather than ask what the use is in #73. Poking fulcrum to contribute in #76 feels mostly NAI, but #133 is a lot of discussion that doesn't feel like a powerwolf. Unless Sloth's powerwolf game is just that strong. *shudders* I probably shouldn't rule this team out entirely but it's definitely meh.
Sloth feels like he's going through the thread person by person and trying to directly place each one by interacting with them. It's not necessarily my way of playing the game, but it's refreshingly active and I think it's a good look for him. Sloth feels independently townie. And he's sexy.
Hard townread.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Fulcrum
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Ter-Tubba
Tubba-Umami
Meh:
Fulcrum-Sloth
Sloth-Tubba
Ter-Umami
Fulcrum's ISO
Fulcrum is rather playful with both Sloth and Umami, as can be expected due to higher familiarity. Fulcrum seems to tunnel in a bit on Umami before determining a top!town read. This is a very good look for fulcrum individually, but it does make it harder to eliminate some other fulcrum team worlds due to lowered interaction with others. I think that fulcrum's handling of TerRaine can push that pair into meh, but even then, that's a bit of a stretch.
I need more from Fulcrum on Ter and Tubba to really eliminate those teams, but I'm willing to wait for it; I think Fulcrum has enough town equity here to deserve that concession, particularly after giving her read on Azrael.
Townlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Ter-Tubba
Tubba-Umami
Meh:
Fulcrum-Sloth
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Sloth-Tubba
Ter-Umami
I was going to ISO TerRaine at this point but I actually want to switch TerRaine and Tubba, since I think it's more interesting.
Tubba's ISO
I had read Tubba closely in their first two games on this site. They were very uncoordinated and, if I remember correctly, substituted in a degree of trolly flippancy to make up for their lack of confidence in their reads. (I might be completely on the wrong tack, here, and if I am, I'm sorry to Tubba.)
It's been a while since those games though, and I remember seeing that Tubba had gotten much better.
#30 is the first post where Tubba seems to be actively thinking about the game. (Not a mark against him, just saying.) I sorta think between #30 and #53, I can rule out the Sloth-Tubba team, as those posts don't really feel coached.
Tubba needs to post more content. There's no interaction towards Azrael, Fulcrum, or Umami, and TerRaine-directed interactions are open to a bucketload of wine. I like Tubba's #124, but I can't rule out that it could be a pocket attempt.
Null because of lack of content.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Ter-Tubba
Tubba-Umami
Meh:
Fulcrum-Sloth
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Ter-Umami
TerRaine ISO
I'm worried that Ter is focused very specifically. Odd defense of Sloth in #36, lots of time spent on my read of her, more specific defense of Umami in #69 as a lurker, but then she turns around and is aggressive towards Umami... And oh god so much fluff! I like fluff sometimes but there is a distinct lack of content here. I'm not seeing much of anything in the way of intent to sort outside of her interactions with me, which feel forced and potentially the start of trying to setup a mislynch.
Zero interaction with Tubba. Essentially zero interaction with Fulcrum. Potentially but not tellingly TMI on a Sloth/Azrael dichotomy in #36, one way or another, but I'm not convinced yet.
The setup discussion with Umami is awkward for me. On the one hand, I feel like it's likely a wolf!Ter handling a town!Umami. On the other hand, I could also see it being some pretty good theatre. I don't know... For now, I think I'll leave this at meh.
But all in all, this player is scummy. I don't know Ter as well as other players in this game do, but my guess (no offense to Ter) is that Azrael is the more valuable player to keep around in case Azrael is town.
Scumread.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter
Azrael-Tubba
Ter-Tubba
Tubba-Umami
Meh:
Fulcrum-Sloth
Fulcrum-Ter
Fulcrum-Tubba
Ter-Umami
Azrael's ISO
I think I've asked this question before and been told that running a legal firm is hard work.
Anyways...
Azrael's RVS vote on Sloth pinged me as potentially being theatre, but I'm comfortable in thinking that I've ruled that out. His following post, #29, feels bad. It very much is a feeling of asking everyone else to do the work for him. And a bit of that tongue-in-cheek "Yeah, I'm totally scum, guys" sarcastic tone that I expect from classic MtGS players, mostly.
Mild ping of #33 being an over-reaction.
#34 is another request for help with meta.
#39, particularly with the repeated requests for help with meta, just feels very disengaged.
#41 is a post that could go either way on theatre or not. It's a little frustrating since it sorta makes me want to push the Azrael-Ter team down to a meh, whereas in my read-through leading up to making this post, I had that as the top team potential. I don't know... For now I think I will leave it where it is and see more later.
I think that while I find Azrael scummy, I also definitely need to see more to cement a read here.
Scumlean.
Teams Left:
Azrael-Ter - Lots of potential here.
Azrael-Tubba - Some potential here.
Ter-Tubba - Lots of potential here.
Tubba-Umami - Ehh.
Meh:
Fulcrum-Sloth - Tinfoil.
Fulcrum-Ter - Tinfoil.
Fulcrum-Tubba - Can't rule out yet.
Ter-Umami - Tinfoil.
Player PoE:
TerRaine>Azrael>Tubba>>>>>>Fulcrum>>Umami>>>Sloth
Vote: TerRaine
I will forgive you for this trespass, for your mind is old and has turned to dust.
That's not very nice. I don't agree with Sloth's reads, but I don't think that this is really fair.
Umami?
Hi Azrael! How's it going?
Oh, yeah, no doubt Rhand can drive me crazy at times but that doesn't mean it's not a ton of fun too--not at all mutually exclusive to me
I think part of it is that I haven't played against scum rhand yet I think and I really don't want him to pocket or trick me or whatever when I do so I'm a little paranoid about not being able to distinguish his playstyle
I don't know either, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be the most excited for any day 1 I've ever played
Yeah, I'm pretty null on fonti right now--will change my vote once I feel like I know where I want it to go. I don't know, I don't want to read her wrong twice for the same reason but, while similar in overall tone/vibe to that game's statement, it did just read as weird to me. Like saying, 'hey UT and GD need to carefully consider when to reveal"/balance maximizing info with actually getting the info to us before they're killed seems like a very fair thing to point out. The 'hey guys, when UT and GD claim, we need to go back and see if their actions are consistent with their claim' seems like fluff, but then again if she is really that scared of getting nightkilled night 1 then I guess it's cautious but she could also just want the opportunity to play up how scared she is of getting nightkilled, so, yeah, probably NAI ultimately.
Tubba, you seem a bit timid this game. This quote in particular is one I also noticed. Like I get the 'hate to drag this up' thing in the context of Osi already being asked this and not fully answering, but it does seem like uber cautious/almost overly polite. So, since I should prob ask a question, why so hesitant?
I don't like doing effort reads, but dang what a post. I honestly just want to assume you're town and solve from there. Want to see more from Ter first. If you're scum, I'm seriously impressed. (someone should let me know if I'm too easily impressed)
She's just making a joke about me being old
because she's a hack, and I take it in admirable stride!I've gotten her much worse, and will continue to, just you wait. Plus it has nothing on the vile, truly disturbing ***** Ter and I call each other with nothing but love on a daily basis.
...
(destroy her)
Let's punt her ass back to Fontis where she belongs.
Yes, I imagine you wouldn't be able to do that on your own. Tragic.
Eh, I'm still not looking to strongly reassess anything until after today where people should be more reliable to post.
I honestly don't see how scum makes this post off the bat.
It was a joke, friend. I can talk about post #82 and my goals with it if that'll help you.
Yo, Sloth, how much faith should I be putting in your Tubba read here?
Hope you feel better!
Ok, now imagine it was me making Azrael's posts. Assume I don't know you well. What would you think my alignment was?
Rest up, hon. We'll still be slowroasting you when you come back.
Only scum would look down on town teamwork. J'accuse.
Hah, but I guess I should start trying to figure you out soon huh?
I was also mason with him in Prison, and his game reminds me more of that here.
Point being he's still my strongest townread, barring standard waning due to lack of posting.
If you see different, tell me why and let's discuss, I'm not infallible. According to some.
I hadn't seen #173 until a few seconds ago. I'm not sure if it's just me, but the site seems to drop posts sometimes. I think it happens when I don't refresh after posting.
Alright, I went through Tubba's iso. I'm not seeing this huge difference. He reacted pretty woodenly to being outed, he had a bit of a tmi problem with going after Last at the beginning, and his thought process was very linear (I think fluff in the Marvel thing game on MU is the best comparison here). It's the same linearity of focus I noticed in this game, and it makes Ter a likely partner. The joking out the gate here is different, I'm not seeing any of that lightness in Matter. Looks like he joined the thread during an intense bit on page 6 there, though, whereas here we were just ******* around. I could see the difference in tone being caused by that alone.
Change my mind, Sloth.
vote Tubba
Sloth, how strong is your strongest townread? What makes Tubba easy to read in his few posts? And, not to be too narcissistic, but what makes me so difficult to read? I'm assuming you have as much if not more experience playing with me compared to Tubba, but correct me if that's totally wrong
Actually, unless you want to answer or have a strong reason/explanation feel free to ignore that
Ballades des Dames du temps Jadis.
Very slight in-joke and more of just a reference.
Umami feels townish, the mechanics talk could be a way to create content without providing reads, but I don’t feel like that’s what’s happening here.
Fulcrum feels predatory. I’m not sure how to explain it, it’s just the vibe I’m getting from their posting.
Azrael hasn’t really stood out to me, I don’t have anything there yet.
That’s just my Colombo shtick, I wanted to see how Osie would react to the question. I disagreed that Ter felt “pure”, and the term “pure” is so nebulous that I wanted them to talk/explain it more.
No you’re good, this is impressive and even more so if scum. I answered your question regarding my Osie question in a response to... someone else. Basically, wanted to grab Osie’s attention with one hand and make funny distracting hand motions with the other and see how they responded.
I was pretty salty there, not gonna lie. It could’ve gone so differently if we had utilized day chat to actually coordinate as a team. Like, instead of hoping I would catch onto the in-thread plan before all star veteran Shadow, you could I dunno, just tell me the plan ahead of time...
And it was more of a tactical retreat than giving up. I’m not likely to thunderdome Shadow and the more I talked the more likely I was to spew. Just a very frustrating game.
This pleases me.
I don't know what your Colombo shtick is, Tubba.
Interesting. How about TerRaine?
What does this... mean?
Which part?