I don’t like your conclusion. Not being impressed is not a reason to scumread me. I like to see my scumgame as impressive.
Well, you know, that's kind of a silly thing to say when you think about it. If I say, "I'm not impressed and I think you could be scum," and you say "That's actually a sign I'm Town! When I'm bad, I'm good, it's when I'm good that I'm bad," you see the problem there.
I'm not doing these summaries for me at this point, as I know who I want to lynch. It's technically better to wait until there are even more flips for this because stuff changes after flips and I end up doing it again, but I'm doing them because I said I would, and I was under the impression some people wanted to see them. That's where I am at.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Lastwhisper: Last has logic immunity, so this one might not be super productive.
From the get go, I thought he seemed kind of...serious? Not even that he didn't get bad jokes, but just being kind of curt and snippy with people. His first "real" vote was for me, because, I don't actually know, but he seemed to think I wasn't funny. Then switched to ZDS because he thought ZDS was "reaching" with his vote for Last. These early votes don't mean that much to me. Just that he's acting rather serious and very sensitive.
As of #178 he says he's been bored so he's trying to play differently every game. I am curious in what way he thinks that he is/was playing differently this game.
I would say I agree with him when he questions why Killjoy has him up so high in his "townie" list, since he hasn't done anything one way or the other to be particularly Town read.
Tubba votes for Last in #278, which is the vote he will sit on for the rest of the day. His reasoning, that he didn't like how Last and Umami were defending each other and then Last switching it up and voting for Umami. I don't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, but I definitely don't feel like this is a vote that a scum buddy could not have made. I'm slightly interested that Last doesn't seem to care much about this vote. Maybe that's not true, and he cared about it about the same that he cared about the other votes for him, but he does seem to be giving Tubba the benefit of the doubt, saying he thinks it's possible Tubba believed what he said, and that Tubba didn't feel different to him this game from last game (where he was Town?)
As of #432 he was agreeing with Jackrito that ITF's "tone and approach" felt "super towny and pure". But then he did the thing in #540 where he criticized my post about ITF, but also agreed with (parts of?) it and voted for ITF. Seems like his main reasons were (1) ITF hedging his reads too much and (2) His read of ZDS suggested TMI. He drops his vote on ITF after I unvoted ITF (and for the same reasons?) and then goes back to voting me. :/ Thinks I'm being disingenuous, and also that I'm being both too aggressive and lazy at the same time. :/ Says he'll go back to ITF at deadline to ensure a lynch, which is fine. Then re-voted ITF because he convinced himself again, which I did not follow, but, whatever. Seems like the person he went the most out of his way to say he didn't want to lynch was Jack. He said that like 4-5 times.
He does suggest, in #1079, that if ITF is a Vengeful Townie, that shooting into Tubba/Shadow would be best, so I'm calling that a positive. He didn't have to put Tubba in there if they are buddies. And then he opened D2 with a vote for Tubba, and that was before any of the counter-claiming stuff, so that's another positive. The hesitation there, of course, is that if he were scum with Tubba, and they all knew that Tubba missed a kill, he might have anticipated that Tubba could be in trouble this day, and decided to distance from the start. But I am calling it more positive for now.
He did hesitate after the claiming. Unvoted and seemed to say that both Tubba and Shaadow were equally likely, but he didn't really care which one happened first. There might be something to be said for the fact that - if he was going for bussing credit with the early vote - he would have kind of thrown it away after this, so maybe that's less likely? Last being Last though, he might just have changed his mind.
I can't say I find anything that is standing out like a Red Flag for me. There are a few positives, and of course a bunch of stuff I don't follow. He could easily be Mafia, but also easily not at this juncture. I probably put him just above the Null line at this stage.
Killjoy
LW
Rhand
So far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
M7/Sloth: M7 made a total of 6 posts in one week and managed to say nothing in any of them. Quite literally expressed zero opinions about anyone or anything game related, even in jest. Impressive. I am currently wondering how anyone town read him for this, because I seem to recall some people did?
Sloth came in at #715 with energy, but also hasn't expressed much in the way of opinion since. Has made lots of promises though. His only hot take is that I am scum. :/ He doesn't like how I drove the ITF wagon with bad reasoning. He then missed the lynch. He also has yet to say anything about what has been going on this game day except to ask the question "what's a jailkeeper?"
So, he's scum or just really, really lazy and doesn't care.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Since Axel is doing that mostly for himself, and KJ is doing his stuff today, I think we should hammer to keep this game moving, especially since we have a long twilight anyway.
He won who saw most clearly the way the universe really worked. Tyl Loesp had seen that Hausk was the one to take the Sarl so far along their course, but no further. The King had not seen that. Too, he had not realised that his most trusted helper might have plans, desires and ambitions of his own, and they might be best served by replacing him. So Hausk had trusted tyl Loesp, and that had been stupid. That had been a misty, self-deceptive kind of seeing. And, on a pinnacle so exposed and high as that of monarch, you paid for such foolishness.
So he had killed his king, but that meant little. It was no more wrong to kill a king than any man, and most men could see that all lives were cheap and eminently disposable, including their own. They held that in such high regard only because it was all they had, not because they thought it meant much to the universe; it took a religion to convince people of that, and he would make sure that the emphasis on that aspect of the Sarl faith was reduced in future, to the benefit of those tenets which invoked humility and obedience.
His only regret in killing Hausk, he’d realised, was that Hausk had had so little time to appreciate what had happened, to think back on what must have been going on in his faithful lieutenant’s mind for all those years, as he’d died.
Ive just looked at a calendar to determine tomorrow is saturday. This didnt mean anything to me even back when my career existed and even less so currently, but presumably some weekend people will show up during twilight if we hammer sometime before midnight
Still think we should be lynching elsewhere to try to salvage our mechanical disadvantage but yall are too focused on trees to see the forest
Still think we should be lynching elsewhere to try to salvage our mechanical disadvantage but yall are too focused on trees to see the forest
Gotta say, I kinda think you’re looking at the trees here.
-Leaving scum alive is bad for game health
-There is no mechanical reason Tubba can’t be the scum PR you’re looking for
-Not lynching Tubba does interfere with the wine of where protection/watching will be
Just night action logic, human psychology, and mafia experience
And the game health argument is proof of the tree focus imo. What you cant solve bscause a wolf is alive?
It especially shouldnt matter to you because you ostensibly know the outcome
But anyway just let me be smug and 100% certain im smarter than everyone else, its not like thats not my default anyway
The next two nights almost always go badly for us because of claims
Woulda been nice to at least try to mitigate it
I dont think the specific claim makes a huge difference.
A watcher claimed to see two people on a night with no, their only* choice was jk or doc, and rhand had already (correctly) brought up why watcher+doc is an unlikely combo
(*technically could have claimed nothing to do with it or CCed johnny or something but all those options are terrible)
For the "breaking down" bit
I know how tubba plays. I dont think thats necessarily fair. He stayed about the same as usual.
But that in itself is a little awkward, how does this situation not inspire a bit more WIM?
But that question applies regardless of alignment so...
(Same with the opposite. Shadow is showing much more oomph since the claims... Which he would do as either alignment)
~~~~~
The actual reactions.
Shadow was paying a great deal of attention to GJs soft and reacted immediately in thread (rather than right to scumchat to say gj was watcher and they gotta figure out doctor)
And that reaction was super genuine to me. And aggressive
Tubba wasnt there to react til later. Dunno about immediacy but his reaction does look like he read past it before posting. And he talked about the possibility of shadow being town.
Its... limp
I don't quite understand the hate about Wisp. I'm not seeing him as actually scummy. So far he's just being Wisp from what I see, and the wagon on him is a thing that interests me for that reason. It looks like a "lets see where this goes" wagon for the most part.
Umami I haven't played with enough yet to get a solid feel on, but they're fine. The wagon there might be more interesting in the end, I'll let that develop.
I wanna leave my vote on Jack right now. My experience with him last game was that he became townie very quickly. A little pressure will probably bring that out again I think. Or the opposite, if that's the case. I want people to follow me here to test this.
Vaimes: How serious is the tom townread? Is it "you see town tom" or "tom is not being scum" or something else entirely?
I initially voted Whispy for his tense reaction to Axel's (and to a lesser extent tom's) joke and to his wagon. He was a lot more easygoing last game so I figured he may be the kind of player who can't completely relax as scum. Furthermore his wagon was made of good, veteran analysts, which did not influence my vote but made me feel good about it.
I am now reversing my read on him because:
— Of Umami's possible TMI. It may not be obvious at a glance but look harder because I assure you it's there;
— Axelrod is being extremely unimpressive and doing very little visible scumhunting (I want to see where he is going with Grape because aside from that his posts are all fluff);
— Killjoy is being extremely unimpressive as well and far too careful and calculating.
So my eyes are on UmAxeljoy now.
Speaking of Umami, it irritates me how his tone has changed since his previous grape of posts. Now he's all sweet and friendly, it looks like a disgustingly blatant attempt to pocket.
Dude, how I get confused of TMI is something I will never understand. The magic of mafia is that if you look hard enough you can make anything make sense
ZeDork are you saying you don't want to be buddies this game?
this is probably the worst post
Feels like he is trying to appeal to ZeDork
in between though he is asking questions, I would argue that they don't really do much
fluff here and there
Ok I can kinda see how he went from carefree to a little nervous
I still like my vote on Killjoy
convince me later maybe
I want to see how Umami responds
In retrospect they do look like they were testing the waters here.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I dont think the specific claim makes a huge difference.
A watcher claimed to see two people on a night with no, their only* choice was jk or doc, and rhand had already (correctly) brought up why watcher+doc is an unlikely combo
I never saw what he said but that kind of speculation should be avoided
(*technically could have claimed nothing to do with it or CCed johnny or something but all those options are terrible)
For the "breaking down" bit
I know how tubba plays. I dont think thats necessarily fair. He stayed about the same as usual.
But that in itself is a little awkward, how does this situation not inspire a bit more WIM?
But that question applies regardless of alignment so...
(Same with the opposite. Shadow is showing much more oomph since the claims... Which he would do as either alignment)
So why bring it up if its NAI?
~~~~~
The actual reactions.
Shadow was paying a great deal of attention to GJs soft and reacted immediately in thread (rather than right to scumchat to say gj was watcher and they gotta figure out doctor)
How do you know he didn't do that? That is some major assumptions and borderline "making ***** up"
And that reaction was super genuine to me. And aggressive
But you said he would that with either alignment, so...
Tubba wasnt there to react til later. Dunno about immediacy but his reaction does look like he read past it before posting. And he talked about the possibility of shadow being town.
Its... limp
Yer limp
bolded are my replies.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Hello! I'm back, and only a couple of days later than promised.
I'm multitabbing this game and catching up where I left off. Will comment as I got along.
Ping me now if you have any specific important questions.
I have two questions
1- when does the Day end again?
2- What's the VC?
Hello! I'm back, and only a couple of days later than promised.
I'm multitabbing this game and catching up where I left off. Will comment as I got along.
Ping me now if you have any specific important questions.
I have two questions
1- when does the Day end again?
2- What's the VC?
Hello! I'm back, and only a couple of days later than promised.
I'm multitabbing this game and catching up where I left off. Will comment as I got along.
Ping me now if you have any specific important questions.
I have two questions
1- when does the Day end again?
2- What's the VC?
no idea
everyone is voting tubba
I am just chilling
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Axel and ZDS's positioning on ITF were probably the best out of the bunch. They easily had the most thought out positions on ITF.
Tom's next in that he lightly pushed against the wagon.
For Jack, it's less position than purity. His posts surrounding the wagon, and around the end of the day seem pure.
Shadow's vote is fine, it echoes some of my reasoning for being on his wagon. Its not specifically townie or scummy though.
Johnny thinks he's lazy.
Last's vote was pretty bad, but he also pushed towards other wagons a bit as well.
Vaimes originally said he wouldn't vote ITF without a compelling reason, then said they would vote him to avoid a no lynch, then justifies voting him as ITF's not voting is antispew. I dislike that progression.
Rod literally is just sheeping Axel. Could just be lazy but, thats still a thing.
Rhand is by far the worst vote I think, as he just votes and says "I feel the fakeness too" and it's just so bad.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Meanwhile I took a quick look at Vaimes (my last remaining null). While his impact is very low and he sheeps a lot, he does seem to care unlike last game where he was mostly fluttering by and "anti-spewing". I'm okay with writing him off for the time being.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm townfirmed as well, you only seem to argue against that out of pure principle.
shadow will be either townfirmed or scumfirmed after Tubba's flip, no need to worry much about him.
If Tubba flips town, are you going to argue there is a dichotomy between shadow and me?
It may seem to you like you are being reasonably careful, but in truth you are being careful beyond reason. As a result you come out as a combination of spreading pointless doubt, keeping your options open and going too far in faking a lack of inside info.
What you don't do is take a stance on the dichotomy. This is the closest you've given us:
I think Axel is right about Tubba being more likely for the way he handled his result today vs. Shadow's handling of the same result.
Axel is still a strong townread.
GJ and ZDS are clear.
Tom is moving slightly down from where he was.
Umsmi is still probably town.
Rhand is... catching my attention. So is Sloth.
After this, you uncleared me because "it's not impossible that zds is scum and there's two jail keepers" (1573), and generally speaking have avoided analysing shadow or Tubba (or me) and coming to any conclusions regarding who is scum (except for the quote above where you parrot Axel).
It could be you were busy re-reading, but if that were the case I would expect more than a bunch of short vague sentences (so what if "Johnny thinks he's lazy"? What was "pretty bad" about Whispy's vote and why is it good that he "pushed towards other wagons a bit as well"?).
It's not even a matter of being good or bad at making this type of posts, you should at least have some idea what you liked or disliked about someone (more specifically than "[his] vote was pretty bad"). It's fine if you can't make some grandiose case thoroughly proving someone's alignment logically and behaviourally, as long as it doesn't look like you rushed the job in an afternoon (if even that).
Do you get why I'm struggling to find the town intent in you? And easily seeing the scum intent instead?
Can it be as easy as tubba / KJ / LW / Sloth?
That team would explain why I didn’t get good pings so far. I didn’t want to bother KJ D1, can’t read tubba and LW (they ping me as town all the time so I ignore those pings) and Sloth hardly posted.
1. Grapefruit21 - ?
2. ZeDorkSlipeur - town
3. Gentleman Johnny - town
4. Rhand - town
5. Jackrito - ?
6. TubbaFett - probably mafia
7. shadowlancerx - self-resolving
8. tomsloger - lean town (the Night Action derping and holding on to his not lynching tubba idea)
9. Vaimes - lean town (gutread)
10. Lastwhisper - ?
11. Umami - town
12. M plus 7 / Sloth - ?
13. Rodemy - lean town (metaread)
15. Killjoy - lean mafia (he’s not creating opinions of his own)
16. Axelrod - lean town
"Shadow is showing much more oomph since the claims... Which he would do as either alignment"
then IN THE SAME POST you say (as a reason for believing shadow over Tubbs):
And that reaction was super genuine to me. And aggressive"
Of course Scum!shadow would have more umf: He was caught targeting ZDS with a no kill. So it's either him or THE JAILER. so he can mislynch the jailer, kill the watcher, and then wait to die toMorrow. that's two town PRs in one go.
I'm sorry i see this a different way, but shadow was more scummy than Tubbs before the claim.
I will not be hammering.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Regarding the Tubbalancerx dichotomy, one of the biggest reasons I'm siding with shadow is because he interrogated me early. From my point of view it really seemed like he had something in mind, especially if you look at his phrasing at the beginning (see 1156).
At first I thought I had somehow messed up some nefarious plans by suspecting [I don't know who] rather than [I don't know who else], but now I am very much inclined to believe him when he says he was trying to figure out if I had been the target or the perpetrator of the cancelled kill.
@z: Shadow said 2 things (technically one thing) to you about your reads based off your wagon. I don't see where the "interrogation" comes into play. How can one determine if your were the target or the killer from that?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@ZDS: Jack never became a real wagon yesterDay, which I think makes it a little more likely that he’s town. But I don’t have a read on him apart from that.
I think Grape would have pinged me as mafia by now, but I don’t have a townread on him either.
I should reread, but I want to wait for tubba’s flip.
I'm not doing these summaries for me at this point, as I know who I want to lynch. It's technically better to wait until there are even more flips for this because stuff changes after flips and I end up doing it again, but I'm doing them because I said I would, and I was under the impression some people wanted to see them. That's where I am at.
From the get go, I thought he seemed kind of...serious? Not even that he didn't get bad jokes, but just being kind of curt and snippy with people. His first "real" vote was for me, because, I don't actually know, but he seemed to think I wasn't funny. Then switched to ZDS because he thought ZDS was "reaching" with his vote for Last. These early votes don't mean that much to me. Just that he's acting rather serious and very sensitive.
As of #178 he says he's been bored so he's trying to play differently every game. I am curious in what way he thinks that he is/was playing differently this game.
I would say I agree with him when he questions why Killjoy has him up so high in his "townie" list, since he hasn't done anything one way or the other to be particularly Town read.
Tubba votes for Last in #278, which is the vote he will sit on for the rest of the day. His reasoning, that he didn't like how Last and Umami were defending each other and then Last switching it up and voting for Umami. I don't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, but I definitely don't feel like this is a vote that a scum buddy could not have made. I'm slightly interested that Last doesn't seem to care much about this vote. Maybe that's not true, and he cared about it about the same that he cared about the other votes for him, but he does seem to be giving Tubba the benefit of the doubt, saying he thinks it's possible Tubba believed what he said, and that Tubba didn't feel different to him this game from last game (where he was Town?)
As of #432 he was agreeing with Jackrito that ITF's "tone and approach" felt "super towny and pure". But then he did the thing in #540 where he criticized my post about ITF, but also agreed with (parts of?) it and voted for ITF. Seems like his main reasons were (1) ITF hedging his reads too much and (2) His read of ZDS suggested TMI. He drops his vote on ITF after I unvoted ITF (and for the same reasons?) and then goes back to voting me. :/ Thinks I'm being disingenuous, and also that I'm being both too aggressive and lazy at the same time. :/ Says he'll go back to ITF at deadline to ensure a lynch, which is fine. Then re-voted ITF because he convinced himself again, which I did not follow, but, whatever. Seems like the person he went the most out of his way to say he didn't want to lynch was Jack. He said that like 4-5 times.
He does suggest, in #1079, that if ITF is a Vengeful Townie, that shooting into Tubba/Shadow would be best, so I'm calling that a positive. He didn't have to put Tubba in there if they are buddies. And then he opened D2 with a vote for Tubba, and that was before any of the counter-claiming stuff, so that's another positive. The hesitation there, of course, is that if he were scum with Tubba, and they all knew that Tubba missed a kill, he might have anticipated that Tubba could be in trouble this day, and decided to distance from the start. But I am calling it more positive for now.
He did hesitate after the claiming. Unvoted and seemed to say that both Tubba and Shaadow were equally likely, but he didn't really care which one happened first. There might be something to be said for the fact that - if he was going for bussing credit with the early vote - he would have kind of thrown it away after this, so maybe that's less likely? Last being Last though, he might just have changed his mind.
I can't say I find anything that is standing out like a Red Flag for me. There are a few positives, and of course a bunch of stuff I don't follow. He could easily be Mafia, but also easily not at this juncture. I probably put him just above the Null line at this stage.
Killjoy
LW
Rhand
So far.
Axelrod
ZeDorkSlipeur
Gentleman Johnny
shadowlancerx
Killjoy
Lastwhisper
Rhand
TubbaFett
Still TBD:
Grapefruit21
Jackrito
tomsloger
Vaimes
Umami
Slothful
Rodemy
Sloth came in at #715 with energy, but also hasn't expressed much in the way of opinion since. Has made lots of promises though. His only hot take is that I am scum. :/ He doesn't like how I drove the ITF wagon with bad reasoning. He then missed the lynch. He also has yet to say anything about what has been going on this game day except to ask the question "what's a jailkeeper?"
So, he's scum or just really, really lazy and doesn't care.
This should be L-1.
Thought about hammering but im pretty sure if i did wed just have a 36 hour twilight to get us back on cycle
So he had killed his king, but that meant little. It was no more wrong to kill a king than any man, and most men could see that all lives were cheap and eminently disposable, including their own. They held that in such high regard only because it was all they had, not because they thought it meant much to the universe; it took a religion to convince people of that, and he would make sure that the emphasis on that aspect of the Sarl faith was reduced in future, to the benefit of those tenets which invoked humility and obedience.
His only regret in killing Hausk, he’d realised, was that Hausk had had so little time to appreciate what had happened, to think back on what must have been going on in his faithful lieutenant’s mind for all those years, as he’d died.
But it was a small regret.
shadowlancerx - 2 (Tubba Fett, Rodemy)
Jackrito - 2 (Umami, Grapefruit21)
Axelrod - 1 (Slothful)
Slothful - 1 (tomsloger)
Not Voting - 2 (Killjoy, Axelrod)
With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Day 2 ends at 11:59:59 PM Eastern Time on 05 May 2020.
Vote Count 2.1
Vote Count 2.2
Vote Count 2.3
Vote Count 2.4
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.2
Vote Count 1.3
Vote Count 1.4
Vote Count 1.5
Vote Count 1.6
Vote Count 1.7
Vote Count 1.8
Vote Count 1.9
Vote Count 1.10 [Final]
End of Day 1
If your vote is uncounted and I didn't say why, please PM me or DM me on Discord so I can investigate.
Still think we should be lynching elsewhere to try to salvage our mechanical disadvantage but yall are too focused on trees to see the forest
-Leaving scum alive is bad for game health
-There is no mechanical reason Tubba can’t be the scum PR you’re looking for
-Not lynching Tubba does interfere with the wine of where protection/watching will be
Just night action logic, human psychology, and mafia experience
And the game health argument is proof of the tree focus imo. What you cant solve bscause a wolf is alive?
It especially shouldnt matter to you because you ostensibly know the outcome
But anyway just let me be smug and 100% certain im smarter than everyone else, its not like thats not my default anyway
The next two nights almost always go badly for us because of claims
Woulda been nice to at least try to mitigate it
just saying.
someone hammer so I can not worry about this for a few days
so yeah, we have all of scum on tubba wagon, I bet.
hey, was axels 1702 a slip?
I think it was.
You’d at least be voting one of them, right?
What slip do you mean?
But only because youre giving me such good odds.
The over/under on that should be 2.5 and id still only take the over if i thought tubba was town
Vaimes/KJ possible scumpair
Whispy/KJ and tom/KJ not scumpairs
No, that’s a scum list, as verified by his next post. A scumlist with 3 scum, not including tubba who he thinks is scum, as verified by the next post.
bolded are my replies.
I'm multitabbing this game and catching up where I left off. Will comment as I got along.
Ping me now if you have any specific important questions.
I have two questions
1- when does the Day end again?
2- What's the VC?
Those were *your* reasons for voting shadow over tubba
So...
#1711
everyone is voting tubba
I am just chilling
Working on it. Should be done soon.
Axel and ZDS's positioning on ITF were probably the best out of the bunch. They easily had the most thought out positions on ITF.
Tom's next in that he lightly pushed against the wagon.
For Jack, it's less position than purity. His posts surrounding the wagon, and around the end of the day seem pure.
Shadow's vote is fine, it echoes some of my reasoning for being on his wagon. Its not specifically townie or scummy though.
Johnny thinks he's lazy.
Last's vote was pretty bad, but he also pushed towards other wagons a bit as well.
Vaimes originally said he wouldn't vote ITF without a compelling reason, then said they would vote him to avoid a no lynch, then justifies voting him as ITF's not voting is antispew. I dislike that progression.
Rod literally is just sheeping Axel. Could just be lazy but, thats still a thing.
Rhand is by far the worst vote I think, as he just votes and says "I feel the fakeness too" and it's just so bad.
KJ, what about the players outside the wagon?
And why include the townfirmed players?
---
Meanwhile I took a quick look at Vaimes (my last remaining null). While his impact is very low and he sheeps a lot, he does seem to care unlike last game where he was mostly fluttering by and "anti-spewing". I'm okay with writing him off for the time being.
The only one confirmed is gj and I talked about him.
I was specifically looking at the wagoneers positions and also to see if they try to push away at any point.
But yeah I'm not the best at making those posts
shadow will be either townfirmed or scumfirmed after Tubba's flip, no need to worry much about him.
If Tubba flips town, are you going to argue there is a dichotomy between shadow and me?
It may seem to you like you are being reasonably careful, but in truth you are being careful beyond reason. As a result you come out as a combination of spreading pointless doubt, keeping your options open and going too far in faking a lack of inside info.
What you don't do is take a stance on the dichotomy. This is the closest you've given us:
After this, you uncleared me because "it's not impossible that zds is scum and there's two jail keepers" (1573), and generally speaking have avoided analysing shadow or Tubba (or me) and coming to any conclusions regarding who is scum (except for the quote above where you parrot Axel).
It could be you were busy re-reading, but if that were the case I would expect more than a bunch of short vague sentences (so what if "Johnny thinks he's lazy"? What was "pretty bad" about Whispy's vote and why is it good that he "pushed towards other wagons a bit as well"?).
It's not even a matter of being good or bad at making this type of posts, you should at least have some idea what you liked or disliked about someone (more specifically than "[his] vote was pretty bad"). It's fine if you can't make some grandiose case thoroughly proving someone's alignment logically and behaviourally, as long as it doesn't look like you rushed the job in an afternoon (if even that).
Do you get why I'm struggling to find the town intent in you? And easily seeing the scum intent instead?
If you are town, help me see that town intent.
That team would explain why I didn’t get good pings so far. I didn’t want to bother KJ D1, can’t read tubba and LW (they ping me as town all the time so I ignore those pings) and Sloth hardly posted.
1. Grapefruit21 - ?
2. ZeDorkSlipeur - town
3. Gentleman Johnny - town
4. Rhand - town
5. Jackrito - ?
6. TubbaFett - probably mafia
7. shadowlancerx - self-resolving
8. tomsloger - lean town (the Night Action derping and holding on to his not lynching tubba idea)
9. Vaimes - lean town (gutread)
10. Lastwhisper - ?
11. Umami - town
12. M plus 7 / Sloth - ?
13. Rodemy - lean town (metaread)
15. Killjoy - lean mafia (he’s not creating opinions of his own)
16. Axelrod - lean town
You said
"Shadow is showing much more oomph since the claims... Which he would do as either alignment"
then IN THE SAME POST you say (as a reason for believing shadow over Tubbs):
And that reaction was super genuine to me. And aggressive"
Of course Scum!shadow would have more umf: He was caught targeting ZDS with a no kill. So it's either him or THE JAILER. so he can mislynch the jailer, kill the watcher, and then wait to die toMorrow. that's two town PRs in one go.
I'm sorry i see this a different way, but shadow was more scummy than Tubbs before the claim.
I will not be hammering.
Rod, we'll see soon enough if you are this game's Cassandra. In the meantime, this is for you:
I think Grape would have pinged me as mafia by now, but I don’t have a townread on him either.
I should reread, but I want to wait for tubba’s flip.