[quote from="ZeDorkSlipeur »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=995"I thought tom was going to argue ITF was playing to his town meta (because of his previous stance on him). He had me worried.[/quote]more or less still think its a gussied up lurker lynch and he doesnt look like he has any support (in his response nor in the thread at large)
But im less confident about that making him town lol
so my initial response was Rhand making good assessments. But going to another game and reading it and basing behavior off of that isn’t something one can do easily. That assessment took way to quick and the amount of info grabbed from that doesn’t feel like he really did that.
I’m curious to how you gathered that info in 13 minutes.
I'm pausing in the middle of reading some stuff to note that I like this post from Rodemy. Mainly the fact that he asked it, rather than if it suggests something alignment indicative about Rhand.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
He did vote Shadow, the vote just didn’t make it into the votecounts
I forgot about that. His vote barely counts as pushing the wagon in any case (from 293: "I don't mind putting more pressure on Shadow though, I think he was the scummiest vote on LW.") . Later on he put in shadow in his null pile.
I don't see the point in a comparison this flimsy.
It feels like you put the cart before the horse and are twisting history to make things (not quite) work.
ITF died quickly there and I knew who the scumteam was because I was on it. The ISO went quick.
Literally two minutes between saying you are going to look and posting your conclusions. "Quick" is underselling it.
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Come to think of it, Rhand was an early bandwagonner (that's fine), and after that added pretty much nothing to the ITF wagon and acted entirely as a yes man (as far as this wagon is concerned, I'm not saying he didn't do other things).
I’ll have a look at Winterfell where he was mafia with me.
Do you realistically think you can do that quick enough to get enough evidence to move to a new wagon?
he apparently already did. Curious?
Apparently, I just missed that post completely and don't have a logical reason as to how. Other than I have to get my numbers higher so that "WFH might not go away after this pandemic is over."
I'm pausing in the middle of reading some stuff to note that I like this post from Rodemy. Mainly the fact that he asked it, rather than if it suggests something alignment indicative about Rhand.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Have been reading Jackrito. My notes can be distilled down to:
I think he's fine?
Early (non-random but only slightly above) vote on Umami is whatever. He sticks with it for a long time, converting a weak vote into a stronger one, but also recognizes this fact.
I like his early paranoia of ZDS from another game where scum-ZDS apparently got the better of him.
Slight red flag when he first lists ITF as one of his top town, but then it flipped completely into what appeared a strong scum read after a review, at a time when ITF was getting heat. So, that's a bit of a yikes. He seems to say the reason for the mis-read came from looking at ITF in ISO before and not in "full." Grape went into this a bit with Jack already. I feel like Jacks explanation was okay.
I mostly appreciated his "reads" posts on player. They showed some decent thought behind them (excepting, of course, the complete miss-fire in regards to myself). It raises the concern that sometimes he seems like he's paying more attention than others, but I don't think that's really a scum indicator. It might even help pseudo-explain his complete flip on ITF. But it's a difficult style to read because it's inconsistent.
Then he got all fatalistic on himself from seemingly out of nowhere? Maybe there were a couple of people saying they didn't like him? But to throw up your hands and go please just lynch me or vig me rather than me have to argue with people. It's a bit over the top and maybe too concerned about other people's views of him? I fee like I can put that down to a personality thing at least for the moment.
The last thing is a meta thing I can't really judge, which is the suggestion that (as Town) he's more "hedgey" than he has been this game - and Jack seems to acknowledge this, and says that he's actually making an effort to be less hedgey this game, thus explaining the difference. I'm probably less of a fan of this explanation just because I feel like conscious attempts to change one's playstyle are (1) rare, and (2) usually don't work anyway. But I guess it's possible.
Aside from that, I don't see anything too bad here. Not yet at least.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
i just did what rhand did and the playstyle feels very similar. Lots of apologizing, very little posting. I can't say he is playing the exact same way, but it is a good read and I am willing to vote ITF because of it.
this doesn't clear rhand IMO. Could just be bussing the super low hanging fruit there and setting up a town!shadow lynch.
But i have to agree with Rhand on this one.
vote ITF
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Early (non-random but only slightly above) vote on Umami is whatever. He sticks with it for a long time, converting a weak vote into a stronger one, but also recognizes this fact.
Im still not seeing the conversion though. He just
States that hes in a tunnel
States that others opinions dont change his mind
Hes still not acting like someone with even a moderate read, much less a strong one. No desire to exert his will and lynch umami is a given. Theres also no looking for her partners, no confronting her, nothing like <this here post> in response to townreads of her.
Just
No sign its a read he actually holds strongly other than him telling us
(the sad thing is i am not seeing a town shadow myself :/ I always get weary about people when they get things right on the nose and he might have done just that.)
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before we head to twilight My top three scum reads are
ITF
TUBBA
Shadow/vaimes (i can't decide)
Then i guess it would be (from most likely scum to least )
Rhand
tom
axelrod
jack
and then the rest of them (in a very loose order because i don't even have reads on half of them
kj
grape
GJ
sloth
umami
That could change with flips but that's where i am at right now. If ITF flips town, Rhand moves up and shadow moves down. IF ITF flips scum: Shadow moves up and vaimes moves down and RHand stays with Vaimes.
Idk about Tubba yet, i need a flip and some ISOing to get there.
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@ZDS: why put out a lie on the timeframe of my posts? I can’t check the exact time on my phone, but “literally 2 minutes” for sure isn’t true. I looked at ITF’s iso’s in both games.
Have you even looked at Winterfell and seen how small that iso actually is?
its iso in that game was literally not even 2 pages and they were very short posts in general. i believe him when he said he could do it in 13 minutes.
And forgive me Rhand, but i do not believe you. You counterclaimed your teammate in winterfell.
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before we head to twilight My top three scum reads are
ITF
TUBBA
Shadow/vaimes (i can't decide)
Then i guess it would be (from most likely scum to least )
Rhand
tom
axelrod
jack
and then the rest of them (in a very loose order because i don't even have reads on half of them
kj
grape
GJ
sloth
umami
That could change with flips but that's where i am at right now. If ITF flips town, Rhand moves up and shadow moves down. IF ITF flips scum: Shadow moves up and vaimes moves down and RHand stays with Vaimes.
Idk about Tubba yet, i need a flip and some ISOing to get there.
its iso in that game was literally not even 2 pages and they were very short posts in general. i believe him when he said he could do it in 13 minutes.
And forgive me Rhand, but i do not believe you. You counterclaimed your teammate in winterfell.
That was an example of no choice. arianrhod had claimed my rolename.
Yeah i forgot some people D: They aren't important right now for my reads. (cue the ITS ROD ZDS AND WISP train.)
Okay Rhand. I'll take your word in this game where people lie. But seriously a fake name would have been just fine. ESPECIALLY in a mini. you just Claim his name? Idk, felt bussy to me.
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“They say the dead look back at us from mirrors, don’t they, Gillews?”
The royal physician turned round with a startled expression on his face, and then staggered and nearly fell over. “Your – that is, Prince Oramen.”
The doctor was a small, tense, nervous-looking man at the best of times. He seemed now positively abuzz with energy. Also, from his continued swaying and the glassy look about his eyes, quite drunk too. He had been staring at his reflection in one of the mirrors that covered half the walls of the drawing room.
“Did you see my father, Gillews?” Oramen asked, nodding to the mirror. “Was he in there, looking down on us?”
“What’s that?” the doctor asked. His breath smelled of wine and some unsluiced foodstuff. Then he seemed to catch up with what was going on and turned, swaying again, to look into the tall mirror. “What? The dead? No, I see no one, saw nobody. Indeed not, prince, no.”
“My father’s death must have affected you deeply, good doctor.”
“How could it not?” the little fellow asked. He wore a doctor’s skullcap, but it had slipped to one side and come forward, too, so that it was starting to droop over his right eye. Wispy white hairs protruded. He looked down into his near-empty glass and said, “How could it not?” again.
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Did you really believe that there was only 2 minutes between those posts?
That doesn’t make sense regardless what you think my alignment is.
When I looked it said "posted 58 minutes ago" for one post and "posted 1 hour ago" for the other. Come to think of it I'm an idiot and forgot "posted 1 hour ago" could mean much more than a 2 minutes difference because this forum software sucks. We can drop this. Sorry.
this twilight is a bit longer than usual, who knows why
I have played in one game that i can remember with a twilight and i still don't understand the mechanic. In my many years of playing it is the one thing that i have yet to understand
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So what is the point of twilight if a governor doesn't exist? I never understood it and i rarely see it.
I'm assuming there is a role(s) that can do something during this time. What that might be remains to be seen.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am choosing to put zero mental energy into deciding what I will think after the flip before we have the flip.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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But im less confident about that making him town lol
I forgot about that. His vote barely counts as pushing the wagon in any case (from 293: "I don't mind putting more pressure on Shadow though, I think he was the scummiest vote on LW.") . Later on he put in shadow in his null pile.
I don't see the point in a comparison this flimsy.
It feels like you put the cart before the horse and are twisting history to make things (not quite) work.
Literally two minutes between saying you are going to look and posting your conclusions. "Quick" is underselling it.
---
Come to think of it, Rhand was an early bandwagonner (that's fine), and after that added pretty much nothing to the ITF wagon and acted entirely as a yes man (as far as this wagon is concerned, I'm not saying he didn't do other things).
I don't like this.
Apparently, I just missed that post completely and don't have a logical reason as to how. Other than I have to get my numbers higher so that "WFH might not go away after this pandemic is over."
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I think he's fine?
Early (non-random but only slightly above) vote on Umami is whatever. He sticks with it for a long time, converting a weak vote into a stronger one, but also recognizes this fact.
I like his early paranoia of ZDS from another game where scum-ZDS apparently got the better of him.
Slight red flag when he first lists ITF as one of his top town, but then it flipped completely into what appeared a strong scum read after a review, at a time when ITF was getting heat. So, that's a bit of a yikes. He seems to say the reason for the mis-read came from looking at ITF in ISO before and not in "full." Grape went into this a bit with Jack already. I feel like Jacks explanation was okay.
I mostly appreciated his "reads" posts on player. They showed some decent thought behind them (excepting, of course, the complete miss-fire in regards to myself). It raises the concern that sometimes he seems like he's paying more attention than others, but I don't think that's really a scum indicator. It might even help pseudo-explain his complete flip on ITF. But it's a difficult style to read because it's inconsistent.
Then he got all fatalistic on himself from seemingly out of nowhere? Maybe there were a couple of people saying they didn't like him? But to throw up your hands and go please just lynch me or vig me rather than me have to argue with people. It's a bit over the top and maybe too concerned about other people's views of him? I fee like I can put that down to a personality thing at least for the moment.
The last thing is a meta thing I can't really judge, which is the suggestion that (as Town) he's more "hedgey" than he has been this game - and Jack seems to acknowledge this, and says that he's actually making an effort to be less hedgey this game, thus explaining the difference. I'm probably less of a fan of this explanation just because I feel like conscious attempts to change one's playstyle are (1) rare, and (2) usually don't work anyway. But I guess it's possible.
Aside from that, I don't see anything too bad here. Not yet at least.
this doesn't clear rhand IMO. Could just be bussing the super low hanging fruit there and setting up a town!shadow lynch.
But i have to agree with Rhand on this one.
vote ITF
States that hes in a tunnel
States that others opinions dont change his mind
Hes still not acting like someone with even a moderate read, much less a strong one. No desire to exert his will and lynch umami is a given. Theres also no looking for her partners, no confronting her, nothing like <this here post> in response to townreads of her.
Just
No sign its a read he actually holds strongly other than him telling us
Exposition over impact.
ITF - 8 (KJ, ZDS, Rhand, GJ, shadow, Last, Vaimes, rod
Umami - 1 (Jack
Lastw - 1 (Tubba
Tubba - 1 (Umami
Jack- 1 (Grape
shadow- 1 (tom
Not Voting - 3 (Sloth, ITF, Axel
Thinking about hammering. Were clearly not getting another wagon today
I'm not against it. I never agreed with the obsession with waiting until the last minute to hammer.
He did this a lot in Prison as well.
ITF
TUBBA
Shadow/vaimes (i can't decide)
Then i guess it would be (from most likely scum to least )
Rhand
tom
axelrod
jack
and then the rest of them (in a very loose order because i don't even have reads on half of them
kj
grape
GJ
sloth
umami
That could change with flips but that's where i am at right now. If ITF flips town, Rhand moves up and shadow moves down. IF ITF flips scum: Shadow moves up and vaimes moves down and RHand stays with Vaimes.
Idk about Tubba yet, i need a flip and some ISOing to get there.
@ZDS: why put out a lie on the timeframe of my posts? I can’t check the exact time on my phone, but “literally 2 minutes” for sure isn’t true. I looked at ITF’s iso’s in both games.
Have you even looked at Winterfell and seen how small that iso actually is?
There goes my srong ZDS townread
Oh no I'm sad
And forgive me Rhand, but i do not believe you. You counterclaimed your teammate in winterfell.
you can't say "for weird reasons" and not give them.
You are missing Wisp and ZDS here by the way.
That was an example of no choice. arianrhod had claimed my rolename.
Should get used to it at some point I guess.
And on top of what he said, I like perfect wins.
Okay Rhand. I'll take your word in this game where people lie. But seriously a fake name would have been just fine. ESPECIALLY in a mini. you just Claim his name? Idk, felt bussy to me.
Did you really believe that there was only 2 minutes between those posts?
That doesn’t make sense regardless what you think my alignment is.
The royal physician turned round with a startled expression on his face, and then staggered and nearly fell over. “Your – that is, Prince Oramen.”
The doctor was a small, tense, nervous-looking man at the best of times. He seemed now positively abuzz with energy. Also, from his continued swaying and the glassy look about his eyes, quite drunk too. He had been staring at his reflection in one of the mirrors that covered half the walls of the drawing room.
“Did you see my father, Gillews?” Oramen asked, nodding to the mirror. “Was he in there, looking down on us?”
“What’s that?” the doctor asked. His breath smelled of wine and some unsluiced foodstuff. Then he seemed to catch up with what was going on and turned, swaying again, to look into the tall mirror. “What? The dead? No, I see no one, saw nobody. Indeed not, prince, no.”
“My father’s death must have affected you deeply, good doctor.”
“How could it not?” the little fellow asked. He wore a doctor’s skullcap, but it had slipped to one side and come forward, too, so that it was starting to droop over his right eye. Wispy white hairs protruded. He looked down into his near-empty glass and said, “How could it not?” again.
Lastwhisper - 1 (Tubba Fett)
Tubba Fett - 1 (Umami)
Jackrito - 1 (Grapefruit21)
shadowlancerx - 1 (tomsloger)
Not Voting - 3 (Slothful, ITF, Axelrod)
The vote to execute ITF has reached majority.
It is Twilight. You may continue posting. Twilight ends at 11:59:59 PM Eastern Time on April 22nd 2020.
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When I looked it said "posted 58 minutes ago" for one post and "posted 1 hour ago" for the other. Come to think of it I'm an idiot and forgot "posted 1 hour ago" could mean much more than a 2 minutes difference because this forum software sucks. We can drop this. Sorry.
we lynched someone earlier then EoD
I am not going to bother posting during twilight
until day 2 o/
I assume it's so there's time to write character-specific flavor or something. Who knows.
i don't know if a governor exists or not, i was just wondering if twilight had a point outside of there being a governor.
I have played in one game that i can remember with a twilight and i still don't understand the mechanic. In my many years of playing it is the one thing that i have yet to understand
Now if hes town i get to pretend i never doubted
Last (1): Tubba
Tubba (1): Umami
Jack (1): Grape
shadow (1): tom
Not Voting (3): Sloth, ITF, Axel
Such wagon
Wow
If ITF is town, shadow is top suspect and his flip might spew jack
If scum i think jacks turnaround on him looks more partnery
Neither of those are super strong but that will be where i start once i get the flip
Kind of expect... about half the scum on wagon regardless of his alignment
Maybe more on average if hes scum?
why is shadow top suspect?
In other news, I am liking Jack more in the past 75 ish posts.
Love you too Rhand. Don’t worry I’m not scum.
@Zds: at this point I am caught up, I just need some time to get my legs under me.
I would love to know what you liked because nothing I did lately I would say is great.