Jackrito voting me out of the gate without explanation could be RVS or if it’s genuine seems a bit scummy. ZDS at least had a reason.
Rhand, what are you seeing? #61
Reading back, I actually like Whisp. I mean, that doesn’t mean he’s town, but I don’t particularly want to lynch him. Plus, first wagon with all those unexplained votes makes me less suspicious. Unless that was a move by scum team because voting whisp is apparently a meme or something and generating that move creates distance? I’ll take my tinfoil off now
Axel, not a huge fan. Especially with #85 #86 combo. But just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean he’s evil, but he does give more of a scripted vibe.
Dang, feel like Whispy vs. ZDS could be v vs. v wagons but then why wouldn’t more people jump on wagon
Tom’s #104 is weird to me
His #106 is even weirder because that doesn’t seem to be his style
#111 where Jackrito responds to 2 posts that he wasn’t mentioned in at all and then talks about being worried how he relates to it and then explains why he’s taking his time with ZDS when literally no one asked him about ZDS is weird. If I was to randomly gain town confidence about a weak read, it would be this one. But that could be simply because he voted me without reason and I subconsciously (now apparently consciously) don’t like that he’s trying to murder me. Even taking that into account, he’s the sketchiest up to this point for me because again seems scripted.
Oh, apparently it was not a fully serious vote, but just based on my awkward posting. Fair enough.
@Vaimes #113, if Jackrito’s easy to read, you read him as town? It thought pocketing would be if he believed you were good or are you saying you’re jumping into his pocket?
Vaimes is clearing like everyone—if he’s witch he would be pocketing a few townies and clearing some (but prob not all witches) or he’s just a townie clearing everyone because he can? Not sure a witch would want to clear potential mislynches unless they thought the pockets were more valuable—so I have nothing, but still willing to not lynch Vaimes (and by association Tom) for now
I actually really love that ZDS called me a shade master
Where is Rhand?
Not a huge fan of Tom not answering my question/engaging in general
Screw it, Killjoy I’ll join you. Vote Jack
#138, yep, when I get my first mafia game, I will not at all attempt subtlety
#141, Killjoy is saying what I’m thinking—urgency, expressiveness,confidence, etc. are not super reliable indicators
Vaimes #169, will do
#177, Killjoy is clearing lots of people to. I don’t get this general strategy of trying to clear people when you will get no flip rather than really hone in on scum and kill them so then you see if you’re right or not, but it seems to be a weird scum strategy for the reasons stated above for Vaimes so I guess Killjoy is sort of less sketch too—but then again it’s a super easy strategy to imitate so meh
#186, yeah it was way more harsh than intended, especially with Rhand not being here to give me a hard time back
#189, ask and you shall receive
#190, the funny thing is in a past game I had the exact opposite interpretation—they had that town!confidence but I assumed they were scum looking for an easy mislynch—and we ended up being town v town in multiple ways so that sucked
Tom, #196, because it’s a mysterious thing to me and what I’ve decided to fixate on this game. And honestly it’s largely based on me trying to figure out how to interpret your game
My confidence in thread is often not related to the confidence in my head.
I never have any confidence. Even when I correctly called ZDS/YWF last game, I still couldn't believe it. I can't take it serious when people display huge confidence in the game, short of mechanical reasons. Especially when I know they are wrong.
Umani's wall is so hedgey, I almost think it's townie. Or it is way too wolfy.
Also, I realize the ridiculousness of my response to #141 when I say confidence in not a reliable indicator and then go on to say it's the lens through which I'm viewing the game. To clarify, it's not that I think lack of confidence is scummy (obviously don't) I just think some amount of ridiculous confidence based on nothing that comes across as genuine belief despite being wrong is town confidence or a witch that is very convincing. But I think the latter is prob a little less likely because a witch starting a wagon nearly from scratch with absolute confidence despite knowing they're wrong is a more difficult thing to pull off then a townie feeling a sudden moment of insight and becoming super convinced of that and then having witches jump onboard
Why in your wall post do you seem really hesitant to even say lean town or lean wolf?
I was literally just typing out my thoughts on a notes page while reading through the thread
I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything at this point--I'm just sharing my thoughts. We need everyone to share thoughts even if they're not fully formed yet because as important as it as town to have good reads, it's also important to generate content so other people can read you. Being passive or quiet as town really only helps mafia
I'm still pretty happy with my vote it was mostly RVS but the reaction to it and the person in question posts so far. Give me little reason to change. I feel the vote on me is so reachy and truly lacks belief I'm scum.
A little bit concerned that this means I'm voting with ZDS, but I can afford to live in paranoia of the man treating Me like a puppet the entire game again. So just going to stick with my gut, for now and see where it takes me.
Working most of today so will not be posting a lot till tonight. Where I do a more full review of the game so far.
Why in your wall post do you seem really hesitant to even say lean town or lean wolf?
I was literally just typing out my thoughts on a notes page while reading through the thread
oh, I guess I don't want to create that dividing line between good and bad yet because once I do I'm more likely to find info to support my theory, so just completely rereading a person ever periodically seems safer
You looked like you made comments in between seemingly commenting on each post at the time. Unless you are saying you just raw posted your thoughts overall?
@Vaimes, the software says you have to unvote to vote, so I need to unvote before my vote could be counted
@GJ, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you, but I was posting initially just in response to individual posts, but then I caught up so I decided to reread through the game. As I reread, in a notes page on the left side of my screen, I would type out my thoughts in response to individual posts and just type as I went through the entire game again and then I caught up and kept responding to the new content...
Also, Grape, Tubba, Shadow (sort of, has posted), MPlus, Rodemy, ITF are major lurking; and add Rhand to that—he sort of did a hit and run type move. Please talk--as much as I like the attention, it would be nice to see your responses too
I mean either Umami frantically put this together trying to look townie as a wolf, or he rushed to make these thoughts as town because ???
The unvote vote unvote
is just weird for any alignment
I am going just going to town lean him
Dang, feel like Whispy vs. ZDS could be v vs. v wagons but then why wouldn’t more people jump on wagon
because its 5 pages in, with 10 days left, and humans don't play like that
Jackrito voting me out of the gate without explanation could be RVS or if it’s genuine seems a bit scummy. ZDS at least had a reason.
Lack of reason doesn't make something wolfy, probably less good though
@Umami
when you say witch, you mean wolf?
as of right now, I still feel like after reading that wall, that Umami feels like a townie just regurgitating all his thoughts whether they are good or bad
I mean either Umami frantically put this together trying to look townie as a wolf, or he rushed to make these thoughts as town because ???
The unvote vote unvote
is just weird for any alignment
I am going just going to town lean him
Dang, feel like Whispy vs. ZDS could be v vs. v wagons but then why wouldn’t more people jump on wagon
because its 5 pages in, with 10 days left, and humans don't play like that
Jackrito voting me out of the gate without explanation could be RVS or if it’s genuine seems a bit scummy. ZDS at least had a reason.
Lack of reason doesn't make something wolfy, probably less good though
@Umami
when you say witch, you mean wolf?
as of right now, I still feel like after reading that wall, that Umami feels like a townie just regurgitating all his thoughts whether they are good or bad
You are correct on both counts. Also, it was vote, unvote, vote for the record. I had already voted tom when I voted Jack, and ze rules said that if you wanted to revote, you needed to unvote first. Thus, my vote Jack didn't count cause I already voted tom, so I needed to unvote to then revote. Or at least that was my understanding
Why in your wall post do you seem really hesitant to even say lean town or lean wolf?
I was literally just typing out my thoughts on a notes page while reading through the thread
Screw it, Killjoy I’ll join you. Vote Jack
#138, yep, when I get my first mafia game, I will not at all attempt subtlety
#141, Killjoy is saying what I’m thinking—urgency, expressiveness,confidence, etc. are not super reliable indicators
I mean, I am assuming it wasn't just a thought dump, since that underline quote is clearly right now, and not made at the time.
It's definitely a thought dump
like the way the post is structure, My guess is he was rereading the thread, while typing out the post somewhere else, or another tab, and just dropped that there be after thinking about it for a bit
I kind of agree LW, but the hedgeyness just reads really weird:
Axel, not a huge fan. Especially with #85 #86 combo. But just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean he’s evil, but he does give more of a scripted vibe.
Reading back, I actually like Whisp. I mean, that doesn’t mean he’s town, but I don’t particularly want to lynch him.
I don't think anyone 200 posts+ in is expecting rock solid reads on all players, but he seems hesitant to put himself on toreads. Like, would slight town LW, or slight wolf lean Axel be that hard? It almost feels like he is poking, but then makes it clear he's actually on the fence, rather than committing to the read.
Shadow's vote on me is just lazy
I am trying to think of what to say here
ya I had a thought here, but I can't think of how to state it
I've voted shadow in two different games where he was town because his initial pushes felt malicious
I am not doing that here
I kind of agree LW, but the hedgeyness just reads really weird:
Axel, not a huge fan. Especially with #85 #86 combo. But just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean he’s evil, but he does give more of a scripted vibe.
Reading back, I actually like Whisp. I mean, that doesn’t mean he’s town, but I don’t particularly want to lynch him.
I don't think anyone 200 posts+ in is expecting rock solid reads on all players, but he seems hesitant to put himself on toreads. Like, would slight town LW, or slight wolf lean Axel be that hard? It almost feels like he is poking, but then makes it clear he's actually on the fence, rather than committing to the read.
Oh, that was a little snarky, I just wanted to underscore my complete lack of belief that people can come in, see a couple posts or follow a rule, and accurately read people. But, yeah, I have nothing right now. Once I get something, I'll let you know
because its 5 pages in, with 10 days left, and humans don't play like that
wow, this is going to be a long game--we're using all 10 days before the first vote?
that's not what I am trying to say
you definitely have to look at the time between now and EoD, when coming to the conclusion you did imo
you mean any wagon now won't actually go through now, so it doesn't count as pressure, so any attempt to get a pressure read or wagon read right now is essentially worthless?
I like this wagon. I do pity Whispy who seems genuinely confused and annoyed by the growing stack of unexplained votes, so here I go:
— Whispy, why did you assume Axel was calling out lurkers seriously, rather than facetiously?
— Generally speaking, why do you have no sense of humour?
— Do you enjoy playing as scum?
— Do you have an opinion on Axelrod?
— Do you have opinions on the players voting you?
Rhand, it's just so ridiculous--how did this play-style develop? Like when you were first starting did you change your town game so it would be harder to figure out if you're scum or did you just naturally have this absurd level of confidence out of the gate as town and it's just easy to throw out a name with no explanation and have people buy into it?
This actually isn’t my playstyle. I am actively trying to find a style that stops me from getting lynched D1 as town.
Right now I’m trying to channel tom.
which makes this comment by Vaimes very weird.
I mean yes, I have trouble making people understand what I’m seeing sometimes. But he’s agreeing with Umami, and he knows throwing out empty votes isn’t my normal style.
Shadow's vote on me is just lazy
I am trying to think of what to say here
ya I had a thought here, but I can't think of how to state it
I've voted shadow in two different games where he was town because his initial pushes felt malicious
I am not doing that here
Shadow's vote on me is just lazy
I am trying to think of what to say here
ya I had a thought here, but I can't think of how to state it
I've voted shadow in two different games where he was town because his initial pushes felt malicious
I am not doing that here
Whispy/shadow scum partners confirmed.
you won't bait me to vote him
I stand by my thoughts
I did math badly and the deadline should be 11:59:59 on April 22nd not April 23rd. The countdown timer in previous vote counts is also incorrect but will be updated.
A note on the vote counter
Unvoting is not necessary or even preferred by the program as it doesn't actually track those in the output window when it lists the votes it counted. Observe:
As you can see tom's unvote moved him to the "not voting" list but didn't get listed in the console window (I should look into getting this functionality added as it would be useful, tbh)
(Also see, Umami's first vote for Jackrito was detected but invalidated because of an extra space; I can fix that by adding "Jack " as a nickname for Jackrito but if the space is before the word "vote" the program won't detect it at all, as with Lastwhisper's undetected vote in the last vote count for "/vote". So please be careful not to put extra characters inside the bold tags)
The simplest way to vote is to just do [b]vote playername[/b] or [b]vote: player name[/b]. Nicknames are allowed/encouraged as long as I can tell who you're trying to vote for (they'll pop up as invalid votes unless they're already in the list but I can add the nickname and rerun the vote count in a couple of seconds, no big deal).
Also please be careful that if you'd like to Unvote then Vote in the same post they need to be in separate bold tags.
Unvote, vote shadowlancerx
Jackrito voting me out of the gate without explanation could be RVS or if it’s genuine seems a bit scummy. ZDS at least had a reason.
Rhand, what are you seeing? #61
Reading back, I actually like Whisp. I mean, that doesn’t mean he’s town, but I don’t particularly want to lynch him. Plus, first wagon with all those unexplained votes makes me less suspicious. Unless that was a move by scum team because voting whisp is apparently a meme or something and generating that move creates distance? I’ll take my tinfoil off now
Axel, not a huge fan. Especially with #85 #86 combo. But just because I’m not a fan doesn’t mean he’s evil, but he does give more of a scripted vibe.
Dang, feel like Whispy vs. ZDS could be v vs. v wagons but then why wouldn’t more people jump on wagon
Tom’s #104 is weird to me
His #106 is even weirder because that doesn’t seem to be his style
#111 where Jackrito responds to 2 posts that he wasn’t mentioned in at all and then talks about being worried how he relates to it and then explains why he’s taking his time with ZDS when literally no one asked him about ZDS is weird. If I was to randomly gain town confidence about a weak read, it would be this one. But that could be simply because he voted me without reason and I subconsciously (now apparently consciously) don’t like that he’s trying to murder me. Even taking that into account, he’s the sketchiest up to this point for me because again seems scripted.
Oh, apparently it was not a fully serious vote, but just based on my awkward posting. Fair enough.
@Vaimes #113, if Jackrito’s easy to read, you read him as town? It thought pocketing would be if he believed you were good or are you saying you’re jumping into his pocket?
Vaimes is clearing like everyone—if he’s witch he would be pocketing a few townies and clearing some (but prob not all witches) or he’s just a townie clearing everyone because he can? Not sure a witch would want to clear potential mislynches unless they thought the pockets were more valuable—so I have nothing, but still willing to not lynch Vaimes (and by association Tom) for now
I actually really love that ZDS called me a shade master
Where is Rhand?
Not a huge fan of Tom not answering my question/engaging in general
Screw it, Killjoy I’ll join you. Vote Jack
#138, yep, when I get my first mafia game, I will not at all attempt subtlety
#141, Killjoy is saying what I’m thinking—urgency, expressiveness,confidence, etc. are not super reliable indicators
Vaimes #169, will do
#177, Killjoy is clearing lots of people to. I don’t get this general strategy of trying to clear people when you will get no flip rather than really hone in on scum and kill them so then you see if you’re right or not, but it seems to be a weird scum strategy for the reasons stated above for Vaimes so I guess Killjoy is sort of less sketch too—but then again it’s a super easy strategy to imitate so meh
#186, yeah it was way more harsh than intended, especially with Rhand not being here to give me a hard time back
#189, ask and you shall receive
#190, the funny thing is in a past game I had the exact opposite interpretation—they had that town!confidence but I assumed they were scum looking for an easy mislynch—and we ended up being town v town in multiple ways so that sucked
Tom, #196, because it’s a mysterious thing to me and what I’ve decided to fixate on this game. And honestly it’s largely based on me trying to figure out how to interpret your game
Also I haven’t cleared anyone. There’s like, four people I actively do not want to lynch.
I never have any confidence. Even when I correctly called ZDS/YWF last game, I still couldn't believe it. I can't take it serious when people display huge confidence in the game, short of mechanical reasons. Especially when I know they are wrong.
Umani's wall is so hedgey, I almost think it's townie. Or it is way too wolfy.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why in your wall post do you seem really hesitant to even say lean town or lean wolf?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Even as town? Why?
I was literally just typing out my thoughts on a notes page while reading through the thread
I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything at this point--I'm just sharing my thoughts. We need everyone to share thoughts even if they're not fully formed yet because as important as it as town to have good reads, it's also important to generate content so other people can read you. Being passive or quiet as town really only helps mafia
A little bit concerned that this means I'm voting with ZDS, but I can afford to live in paranoia of the man treating Me like a puppet the entire game again. So just going to stick with my gut, for now and see where it takes me.
Working most of today so will not be posting a lot till tonight. Where I do a more full review of the game so far.
oh, I guess I don't want to create that dividing line between good and bad yet because once I do I'm more likely to find info to support my theory, so just completely rereading a person ever periodically seems safer
I mean, I am assuming it wasn't just a thought dump, since that underline quote is clearly right now, and not made at the time.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@GJ, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you, but I was posting initially just in response to individual posts, but then I caught up so I decided to reread through the game. As I reread, in a notes page on the left side of my screen, I would type out my thoughts in response to individual posts and just type as I went through the entire game again and then I caught up and kept responding to the new content...
The unvote vote unvote
is just weird for any alignment
I am going just going to town lean him
because its 5 pages in, with 10 days left, and humans don't play like that
Lack of reason doesn't make something wolfy, probably less good though
@Umami
when you say witch, you mean wolf?
as of right now, I still feel like after reading that wall, that Umami feels like a townie just regurgitating all his thoughts whether they are good or bad
nice
You are correct on both counts. Also, it was vote, unvote, vote for the record. I had already voted tom when I voted Jack, and ze rules said that if you wanted to revote, you needed to unvote first. Thus, my vote Jack didn't count cause I already voted tom, so I needed to unvote to then revote. Or at least that was my understanding
wow, this is going to be a long game--we're using all 10 days before the first vote?
like the way the post is structure, My guess is he was rereading the thread, while typing out the post somewhere else, or another tab, and just dropped that there be after thinking about it for a bit
I don't think anyone 200 posts+ in is expecting rock solid reads on all players, but he seems hesitant to put himself on toreads. Like, would slight town LW, or slight wolf lean Axel be that hard? It almost feels like he is poking, but then makes it clear he's actually on the fence, rather than committing to the read.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am trying to think of what to say here
ya I had a thought here, but I can't think of how to state it
I've voted shadow in two different games where he was town because his initial pushes felt malicious
I am not doing that here
Oh, that was a little snarky, I just wanted to underscore my complete lack of belief that people can come in, see a couple posts or follow a rule, and accurately read people. But, yeah, I have nothing right now. Once I get something, I'll let you know
you definitely have to look at the time between now and EoD, when coming to the conclusion you did imo
you mean any wagon now won't actually go through now, so it doesn't count as pressure, so any attempt to get a pressure read or wagon read right now is essentially worthless?
I have way too much time and little patience right now for that haha
Shade? That’s not what I see here?
This actually isn’t my playstyle. I am actively trying to find a style that stops me from getting lynched D1 as town.
Right now I’m trying to channel tom.
which makes this comment by Vaimes very weird.
I mean yes, I have trouble making people understand what I’m seeing sometimes. But he’s agreeing with Umami, and he knows throwing out empty votes isn’t my normal style.
What bothered me in LW was simply the lack of humor and over-the-top reaction to Axel’s joke.
Nothing big but worth having an rvs breaking wagon for.
What I don’t like coming out of that, is Shadow trying to get tom to come back to that wagon.
vote Shadowlancerx
you won't bait me to vote him
I stand by my thoughts
Uhhm Seasons, wait, he was a wolf there, woops
and Token 4
both games his first post pinged me
same thing here
but clearly from those two games I can decide its NAI, so I need more
Do you have a shadow read?
help
I did math badly and the deadline should be 11:59:59 on April 22nd not April 23rd. The countdown timer in previous vote counts is also incorrect but will be updated.
A note on the vote counter
Unvoting is not necessary or even preferred by the program as it doesn't actually track those in the output window when it lists the votes it counted. Observe:
As you can see tom's unvote moved him to the "not voting" list but didn't get listed in the console window (I should look into getting this functionality added as it would be useful, tbh)
(Also see, Umami's first vote for Jackrito was detected but invalidated because of an extra space; I can fix that by adding "Jack " as a nickname for Jackrito but if the space is before the word "vote" the program won't detect it at all, as with Lastwhisper's undetected vote in the last vote count for "/vote". So please be careful not to put extra characters inside the bold tags)
The simplest way to vote is to just do [b]vote playername[/b] or [b]vote: player name[/b]. Nicknames are allowed/encouraged as long as I can tell who you're trying to vote for (they'll pop up as invalid votes unless they're already in the list but I can add the nickname and rerun the vote count in a couple of seconds, no big deal).
Also please be careful that if you'd like to Unvote then Vote in the same post they need to be in separate bold tags.
A real vote count will arrive shortly.
Then I don’t understand your question