I like this wagon. I do pity Whispy who seems genuinely confused and annoyed by the growing stack of unexplained votes, so here I go:
— Whispy, why did you assume Axel was calling out lurkers seriously, rather than facetiously?
— Generally speaking, why do you have no sense of humour?
— Do you enjoy playing as scum?
— Do you have an opinion on Axelrod?
— Do you have opinions on the players voting you?
Rhand, it's just so ridiculous--how did this play-style develop? Like when you were first starting did you change your town game so it would be harder to figure out if you're scum or did you just naturally have this absurd level of confidence out of the gate as town and it's just easy to throw out a name with no explanation and have people buy into it?
This actually isn’t my playstyle. I am actively trying to find a style that stops me from getting lynched D1 as town.
Right now I’m trying to channel tom.
which makes this comment by Vaimes very weird.
I mean yes, I have trouble making people understand what I’m seeing sometimes. But he’s agreeing with Umami, and he knows throwing out empty votes isn’t my normal style.
It appears more and more like Umami is posting whatever he feels will get him townread, but has no idea what to actually do. He is so... malleable. This is the second time his play has changed radically after I called him out. I know I asked him to post content, but I do that often and the before/after difference is rarely this drastic (I remember this situation happening once before, and the player in question was scum).
Then, when Johnny (who I agree with a lot on this matter) pointed out in 230 is weirdly commited to the fence rather than to his read, his answer was "yeah, I have nothing right now" (232). Why bother making a wall of mostly non-reads if you are going to admit your are running on empty?
Calling out lurkers/non-posters in 223 is... ewww. It's the quintessential example of a useless post disguised as useful.
I'm not going to pretend he's obvscum with pointy ears, fur everywhere and very sharp teeth, but he is certainly the scummiest player at the moment by a fair margin.
---
Umami, FYI, last game (Prison Block 2) I was scum and pocketted town-Jackrito so hard I basically made him my loyal dog. So him being paranoid of me is NAI. Feel free to push him anyway if you are scumreading him.
Now that Rhand mentioned Shadow's single post again I do want to know whether his true focus was on voting Whispy or on appealing to tom.
By "Generally speaking, why do you have no sense of humour?" I meant up to that point in this game, not in life or in other contexts. Whispy does have a sense of humour... usually. So it's strange when he doesn't.
[quote from="Umami »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=73"][quote from="Rhand »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=64"][quote from="Killjoy »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=62"]
This actually isn’t my playstyle. I am actively trying to find a style that stops me from getting lynched D1 as town.
Right now I’m trying to channel tom.
which makes this comment by Vaimes very weird.
I mean yes, I have trouble making people understand what I’m seeing sometimes. But he’s agreeing with Umami, and he knows throwing out empty votes isn’t my normal style.
Rhand, what's your playstyle? Can you see why this feels like your playstyle to me?
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read. I don't think that person should have to change their playstyle. Making people do this just forces them to think about how they plan town-->unnatural playstyle for them-->easier to imitate as scum since they have to filter themselves in any rule. Then again, if I get mislynched day 1, I'll probably feel that same pressure next game.
Also, I wasn't saying it's a completely empty vote (and I don't think Vaimes was either), I was just saying you seem to really trust your early reads and to not want to explain them. I can see why adopting that playstyle would be good for scum game and that I imagine you can generally get away with it given your reputation--I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town. Again, maybe it's a good strategy in the context of playing a million games from either alignment because you can throw out a read with little defense from either position and be taken pretty seriously, but from my perspective in this single game it's not helpful
By "Generally speaking, why do you have no sense of humour?" I meant up to that point in this game, not in life or in other contexts. Whispy does have a sense of humour... usually. So it's strange when he doesn't.
Oh, that makes more sense. I thought the "generally speaking" was like "in general" and I thought it was pretty bold
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read.
god you sound like my brother
I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town
Choubris Holse found his master in the eighth of the distinct places where he thought he might actually be, which was, of course, a significant and most propitious location to discover somebody or something a person was looking for. It was also the last place he knew of to look with any purpose beyond simply wandering randomly; indeed, with this in mind, he had left it to the afternoon of his second day of searching specifically with the hope that this might finally be where Ferbin had fetched up.
“Is there anybody with you?” the prince hissed.
“Only the aforesaid deity, sir, if the more insistent priests are to be believed.”
Ferbin looked most unkempt, and unslept, too. He glanced about the place again. “Nobody else?”
Notes:
I seem to have misspoken, the vote counter does count unvote and vote in the same bold tags (this was a change from its original functionality).
Vote Count 1.2 has been manually amended with my apologies to Axelrod.
If your vote is uncounted and I didn't say why, please PM me or DM me on Discord so I can investigate.
I acknowledge the potential slip and am waiting to see what happens next.
Vaimes, fine, I will try to adjust because this current situation doesn't bode well for town/me. I think for me that just means shutting up for awhile, so I'll check in tomorrow or Wednesday after I say my piece.
Whisp, I promise it wasn't a slip--it was a thought based on my only real reference for Rhand
Parting thought, ZDS, Whisp, whoever else hasn't played with me or feels certain they 'caught me'--there has to be like 3-4 mafia in this game so what else are you thinking? Sure, there's this unwritten--or actually kind of written--rule not to call out lurkers and I violated that or whatever, but that doesn't make lurkers town. Town lurkers make it to the end, which yay for them, but scum lurkers also make it to the end and lurker endings suck. Just a personal opinion.
I don't think the solution is to ever talk less. That really only benefits mafia. But if you feel like you need a little break, that's fine too.
The more you make yourself transparent, the more likely people are to read you accurately. Reducing your presence just gives the floor to other people, and you want people to read you based on you, not a narrative other people are selling.
I think you should just keep doing what you're doing. It's a long Day phase, and a lot of the players haven't even made a splash yet.
I acknowledge the potential slip and am waiting to see what happens next.
Vaimes, fine, I will try to adjust because this current situation doesn't bode well for town/me. I think for me that just means shutting up for awhile, so I'll check in tomorrow or Wednesday after I say my piece.
Whisp, I promise it wasn't a slip--it was a thought based on my only real reference for Rhand
Parting thought, ZDS, Whisp, whoever else hasn't played with me or feels certain they 'caught me'--there has to be like 3-4 mafia in this game so what else are you thinking? Sure, there's this unwritten--or actually kind of written--rule not to call out lurkers and I violated that or whatever, but that doesn't make lurkers town. Town lurkers make it to the end, which yay for them, but scum lurkers also make it to the end and lurker endings suck. Just a personal opinion.
I Agree with ZDS more and more. Your posts and explanations for them. All sound like stuff you think town should say rather then what you think. An example in this is the lurkers part at the end.
Everything just sounds scripted and not real to Me. I know this well because I used to do the same thing as scum. Try to be read as town by doing things other town would like.
Woohoo, thanks! Made it to 100! Prob way too quickly, but I'm an experienced mage so that's nice
The problem is that I feel like I'm being as transparent and unedited as possible, and I'm just causing confusion and giving scum a chance to sort of float by. At the very least, I'll try to put my thoughts together in a more cohesive, goal-directed way than "these are thoughts I had"
I Agree with ZDS more and more. Your posts and explanations for them. All sound like stuff you think town should say rather then what you think. An example in this is the lurkers part at the end.
Everything just sounds scripted and not real to Me. I know this well because I used to do the same thing as scum. Try to be read as town by doing things other town would like.
I Agree with ZDS more and more. Your posts and explanations for them. All sound like stuff you think town should say rather then what you think. An example in this is the lurkers part at the end.
Everything just sounds scripted and not real to Me. I know this well because I used to do the same thing as scum. Try to be read as town by doing things other town would like.
Are you townreading ZDS?
I don't think I can ever fully town read ZDS again. I just agree with his view he's pretty null for me though because now I know he can fake town really well.
Sorry about the lack of posting, I should be active from now on.
Catching up right now, I don't think Last is particularly scummy, he seems like he is awkward regardless of alignment. Only thing I think is bad from him is how he only voted Axelrod after being called out, and I would like him to explain why he didn't vote Axel initially.
ZDS's point on Umami is decent, but is weak (as in I could very easily see townUmami saying the same thing). Keeping an eye on Umami but so far haven't seen anything else off about him. I also don't see the hypocracy between #72 and #73.
I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today.
Well, my vote is still on Whispy, and I’m coming around to ZDS maybe just being a hardass villager.
No comment on your silly question.
Historically that's just how ZDS is. I don't remember any other specifics about his play, except that he's... pretty much just like this.
Like his town play or it's NAI? Cause I was leaning towards a town read because of that town confidence thing everyone keeps telling me about
I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. ZDS (and most experienced players) are confident as both town and scum, but changing one's mind in a way that feels believable is difficult.
Up to #202, I think Umami's tells are playstyle tells rather than scumtells.
@Umami: what is true about my play style is that I often have extreme confidence in my reads. But I do have a high hit rate, especially early game before I start doubting. Also because of my career I specialised in sniffing out bad single posts because I often don’t have time to keep track of the big picture (before covid-19 that is, now I have too much time).
I do however try to explain what I see, albeit often unsuccessfully.
Sure, there's this unwritten--or actually kind of written--rule not to call out lurkers and I violated that or whatever, but that doesn't make lurkers town.
I'm not aware of that rule. And I don't agree with it either.
I don't have very many thoughts beyond Townish feelings towards Vaimes.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read.
god you sound like my brother
I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town
vote: Umami
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you? Vote Last
Well, my vote is still on Whispy, and I’m coming around to ZDS maybe just being a hardass villager.
No comment on your silly question.
Historically that's just how ZDS is. I don't remember any other specifics about his play, except that he's... pretty much just like this.
Like his town play or it's NAI? Cause I was leaning towards a town read because of that town confidence thing everyone keeps telling me about
I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. ZDS (and most experienced players) are confident as both town and scum, but changing one's mind in a way that feels believable is difficult.
Up to #202, I think Umami's tells are playstyle tells rather than scumtells.
@Umami: what is true about my play style is that I often have extreme confidence in my reads. But I do have a high hit rate, especially early game before I start doubting. Also because of my career I specialised in sniffing out bad single posts because I often don’t have time to keep track of the big picture (before covid-19 that is, now I have too much time).
I do however try to explain what I see, albeit often unsuccessfully.
Yeah, I know that's your rep and I trust it to a degree. For the example I'm thinking of, I just saw a sort of minimalist explanation that didn't seem too concerned with persuading others, which seems like something that would be pretty easy to imitate as scum.
Any chance you keep stats? Like standardized to the number of scum and the random chance of choosing correctly? This is more of just a curiosity/interest thing--I would never put the effort to do that type of record-keeping/analysis so definitely don't expect anyone else to and you obviously have a rep for a reason
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read.
god you sound like my brother
I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town
vote: Umami
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you? Vote Last
Umami has talked to a lot of people???
What's changed is the possibility of him having slipped
Cause bad town doesn't exist?
Town being wrong doesn't exist?
Wolves pushing a bad town don't exist?
his iso really isn't that wolfy
he's not "townie" but I can find reasons to think he is town
and I can find reasons to think he is a wolf
the most compelling evidence of him being a wolf is the possible slip, which I literally pointed out
you even quoted the post that I highlighted
and Vaimes talked about it like a post after
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read.
god you sound like my brother
I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town
vote: Umami
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you? Vote Last
Yeah, Tubba, if you're going to go for it, go for the jugular. Plus, as myself, I can tell you that I do not rank Whisp as a supporter. Also getting the vibe Whisp doesn't like his brother that much and I am not a huge fan of the transference.
Misrepresentation of Whisp after having the most complete picture wins you...my vote!
You saying “why not vote Umami first?” would make sense if, say, Tubba had Umami as scummier than you, or if he said that Umami flipping scum makes you more likely scum.
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you? Vote Last
A lot's happened between those two points. Do you think it's impossible for town to change their mind?
the way I read the post felt like they were calling me and umami wolf/wolf
am I wrong?
No, I got that, but then there isn’t a specific reason why he should’ve voted one and not the other.
Not really?
I would like to know what her read of umami is though
and in Tubba/Umami worlds, she definitely votes me first, that's more so what I am getting at
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you? Vote Last
A lot's happened between those two points. Do you think it's impossible for town to change their mind?
speaking of changing their mind, it's almost like Tubba read half the story and made up her own conclusion
SHRUG.
I thought the accusing whisp have having no sense humor thing was: Generally speaking, why do you have no sense of humour?
It appears more and more like Umami is posting whatever he feels will get him townread, but has no idea what to actually do. He is so... malleable. This is the second time his play has changed radically after I called him out. I know I asked him to post content, but I do that often and the before/after difference is rarely this drastic (I remember this situation happening once before, and the player in question was scum).
Then, when Johnny (who I agree with a lot on this matter) pointed out in 230 is weirdly commited to the fence rather than to his read, his answer was "yeah, I have nothing right now" (232). Why bother making a wall of mostly non-reads if you are going to admit your are running on empty?
Calling out lurkers/non-posters in 223 is... ewww. It's the quintessential example of a useless post disguised as useful.
I'm not going to pretend he's obvscum with pointy ears, fur everywhere and very sharp teeth, but he is certainly the scummiest player at the moment by a fair margin.
---
Umami, FYI, last game (Prison Block 2) I was scum and pocketted town-Jackrito so hard I basically made him my loyal dog. So him being paranoid of me is NAI. Feel free to push him anyway if you are scumreading him.
Now that Rhand mentioned Shadow's single post again I do want to know whether his true focus was on voting Whispy or on appealing to tom.
it really isn't that gross, reads like he just wants them to join the game
Rhand, what's your playstyle? Can you see why this feels like your playstyle to me?
Also, I think that you shouldn't have to change your playstyle to stop from getting lynched D1 as town. I think if you're playing with someone and you are mislynching them, you should reconsider your read. I don't think that person should have to change their playstyle. Making people do this just forces them to think about how they plan town-->unnatural playstyle for them-->easier to imitate as scum since they have to filter themselves in any rule. Then again, if I get mislynched day 1, I'll probably feel that same pressure next game.
Also, I wasn't saying it's a completely empty vote (and I don't think Vaimes was either), I was just saying you seem to really trust your early reads and to not want to explain them. I can see why adopting that playstyle would be good for scum game and that I imagine you can generally get away with it given your reputation--I'm just wondering why you don't explain your reads as town. Again, maybe it's a good strategy in the context of playing a million games from either alignment because you can throw out a read with little defense from either position and be taken pretty seriously, but from my perspective in this single game it's not helpful
Oh, that makes more sense. I thought the "generally speaking" was like "in general" and I thought it was pretty bold
god you sound like my brother
vote: Umami
“Is there anybody with you?” the prince hissed.
“Only the aforesaid deity, sir, if the more insistent priests are to be believed.”
Ferbin looked most unkempt, and unslept, too. He glanced about the place again. “Nobody else?”
Jackrito - 2 (Killjoy, Umami)
shadowlancerx - 2 (Vaimes, Rhand)
ZeDorkSlipeur - 1 (Grapefruit21)
Lastwhisper - 1 (shadowlancerx)
Grapefruit21 - 1 (Axelrod)
Not Voting - 6 (Gentleman Johnny, Tubba Fett, tomsloger, M plus 7, Rodemy, ITF)
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to achieve a majority. Day 1 ends at 11:59:59 EDT on 22 April 2020.
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.2
I seem to have misspoken, the vote counter does count unvote and vote in the same bold tags (this was a change from its original functionality).
Vote Count 1.2 has been manually amended with my apologies to Axelrod.
If your vote is uncounted and I didn't say why, please PM me or DM me on Discord so I can investigate.
Vaimes, fine, I will try to adjust because this current situation doesn't bode well for town/me. I think for me that just means shutting up for awhile, so I'll check in tomorrow or Wednesday after I say my piece.
Whisp, I promise it wasn't a slip--it was a thought based on my only real reference for Rhand
Parting thought, ZDS, Whisp, whoever else hasn't played with me or feels certain they 'caught me'--there has to be like 3-4 mafia in this game so what else are you thinking? Sure, there's this unwritten--or actually kind of written--rule not to call out lurkers and I violated that or whatever, but that doesn't make lurkers town. Town lurkers make it to the end, which yay for them, but scum lurkers also make it to the end and lurker endings suck. Just a personal opinion.
The more you make yourself transparent, the more likely people are to read you accurately. Reducing your presence just gives the floor to other people, and you want people to read you based on you, not a narrative other people are selling.
I think you should just keep doing what you're doing. It's a long Day phase, and a lot of the players haven't even made a splash yet.
I Agree with ZDS more and more. Your posts and explanations for them. All sound like stuff you think town should say rather then what you think. An example in this is the lurkers part at the end.
Everything just sounds scripted and not real to Me. I know this well because I used to do the same thing as scum. Try to be read as town by doing things other town would like.
The problem is that I feel like I'm being as transparent and unedited as possible, and I'm just causing confusion and giving scum a chance to sort of float by. At the very least, I'll try to put my thoughts together in a more cohesive, goal-directed way than "these are thoughts I had"
I don't think I can ever fully town read ZDS again. I just agree with his view he's pretty null for me though because now I know he can fake town really well.
Catching up right now, I don't think Last is particularly scummy, he seems like he is awkward regardless of alignment. Only thing I think is bad from him is how he only voted Axelrod after being called out, and I would like him to explain why he didn't vote Axel initially.
ZDS's point on Umami is decent, but is weak (as in I could very easily see townUmami saying the same thing). Keeping an eye on Umami but so far haven't seen anything else off about him. I also don't see the hypocracy between #72 and #73.
I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today.
should we tell him?
and I've already explained everything revolving around my post on Axel
if you have new questions though I will be happy to answer them
Maybe I missed it. If you thought the post was scummy, why didn't you vote him at first? How did ZDS asking about it cause you to vote?
I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. ZDS (and most experienced players) are confident as both town and scum, but changing one's mind in a way that feels believable is difficult.
Up to #202, I think Umami's tells are playstyle tells rather than scumtells.
@Umami: What is your mafia experience?
I do however try to explain what I see, albeit often unsuccessfully.
I don't have very many thoughts beyond Townish feelings towards Vaimes.
I thought the second post was worse
I was never planning to vote yet
voting in the ZDS post was a meme
Axel's vote right now feels like a cop-out
I can only vote one person
You and Umami have spent a lot of time talking around each other, Umami’s early defense of you by questioning the votes on you and your defense of him by claiming to see towniness in his actions makes this vote smelly. What’s changed for you?
Vote Last
3 games at DLP, 1 sub at mafia scum
Yeah, I know that's your rep and I trust it to a degree. For the example I'm thinking of, I just saw a sort of minimalist explanation that didn't seem too concerned with persuading others, which seems like something that would be pretty easy to imitate as scum.
Any chance you keep stats? Like standardized to the number of scum and the random chance of choosing correctly? This is more of just a curiosity/interest thing--I would never put the effort to do that type of record-keeping/analysis so definitely don't expect anyone else to and you obviously have a rep for a reason
Umami has talked to a lot of people???
What's changed is the possibility of him having slipped
Cause bad town doesn't exist?
Town being wrong doesn't exist?
Wolves pushing a bad town don't exist?
his iso really isn't that wolfy
he's not "townie" but I can find reasons to think he is town
and I can find reasons to think he is a wolf
the most compelling evidence of him being a wolf is the possible slip, which I literally pointed out
you even quoted the post that I highlighted
and Vaimes talked about it like a post after
so you think we are w/w?
You're being too nice. It's freaking me out
is it you and Umami?
else, Why not vote him first?
Yeah, Tubba, if you're going to go for it, go for the jugular. Plus, as myself, I can tell you that I do not rank Whisp as a supporter. Also getting the vibe Whisp doesn't like his brother that much and I am not a huge fan of the transference.
Misrepresentation of Whisp after having the most complete picture wins you...my vote!
unvote
VoteTubba
am I wrong?
lol I like my brother
his play is just super questionable most of the time
In this context it doesn’t look like anything.
I don't mind putting more pressure on Shadow though, I think he was the scummiest vote on LW.
Vote Shadowlancer
A lot's happened between those two points. Do you think it's impossible for town to change their mind?
Not really?
I would like to know what her read of umami is though
and in Tubba/Umami worlds, she definitely votes me first, that's more so what I am getting at