“Your younger brother won’t be in any danger, will he?”
“Danger?”
Batra’s impersonated face configured a weak smile. “It has been my understanding that, like wicked stepmothers, ambitious regents do not usually come out well from such contexts. Perhaps that is only in tales.”
“No,” Anaplian said with what sounded like relief. She wiped her eyes. “Tyl Loesp’s been my father’s best friend since they were children. He’s always been loyal, fastened his ambitions to my father’s. God knows, they were grand enough for two. Grand enough for a host.” Anaplian looked away to one side, where the bright, tropic air of this place that she had almost come to think of as home over the last two years now seemed as far away as it had when she’d first arrived. “Though what do I know? It’s been fifteen years.”
Turns out I wasn't, but I am currently, will post a readlist when I get to current page. I'm not going to try and address things from days ago, but I am going to finally actually be in the game.
Sloth shouldn’t actually be that high, but it seemed funny to put him there are sheer personality.
GJ, still think you’re an easy town read.
Last moved more than anyone else as I went. But it’s Last so yeah.
Vaimes’ readlist was hot garbage (more the layout and how it was setup vs the order) and that is severely lowering him in my eyes. He’s not a good day 1 lynch and I would have him townlean other than the list.
Oh rhand....uh, you’re scum for calling me scum early game. Amidoingitright?
Vote ITF
Want a claim, completely unmoved by his pressure response, and if he flips scum, Tom being impressed by it is super sketch.
Vaimes’ readlist was hot garbage (more the layout and how it was setup vs the order) and that is severely lowering him in my eyes. He’s not a good day 1 lynch and I would have him townlean other than the list.
I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from here. What is the relevance of the layout to my alignment? Because the way I'm reading it, it's like you're scumreading me for something as frivolous as voting in color.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So we're back to claim range right? The earlier the claim the better so we can get to the more profitable business of killing Jack.
:/
I'm mildly concerned with how much of a weenie you're not being right now. This feels like the first time I've seen you with a confident scumread on Day 1, or do you feel this is typical for you, nothing out of the ordinary?
@KJ let's play hypotheticals. Let's say ITF claimed something self resolving that made you 100% move off him D1 but didn't change your read (Vig, D2 desperado, D3 IC) where would your vote go?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
There are points where I would be able to keep up, but I know myself well enough at this point that I know there will be days that I don't have enough energy to spend making perfectly explained posts.
I'm not faulting GJ or KJ or anyone for grilling me on it, it's understandable to have a slight scum reaction on reads you don't understand, and I'm not trying to make an excuse, I should be held accountable.
Quote from ZDS »
I'm not swayed one way or another by ITF's matter-of-fact explanations, they say nothing about his intent. I was expecting something like this to happen regardless of his alignment (because it often does, with any player) and I expect the wagon-analysis to be a lot more telling.
This is the reaction I was expecting, kinda surprised Axel unvoted me.
Quote from ZDS »
1) Why did you go from "I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today." (#270) to "I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. " (#274)? They aren't the same at all.
To me, they are very similar. "Scumhunting" is somewhat vague, so I tried to expand on what it was about your scumhunting that I liked.
Quote from ZDS »
2) Why not mention the meta basis behind 274 until after you've been pushed, and why not actually explain it until after you've been pushed some more?
Honestly, I didn't realize it would be necessary. I know that sounds silly now, but at the time I thought the second post was enough to give why I thought what I thought.
Quote from ZDS »
3) Why single me out? I understand why you would townclear Whispy and Umami, they are/were controversial figures, but that wasn't the case for me at all. And it's not like you've been liberally throwing town reads all over the place, aside from me (and to a degree your vote on shadow) you have only expressed opinions on a very limited number of then-controversial figures.
Because it stood out to me, my feelings on other players weren't solid enough at time.
Quote from LW »
@ITF
why didnt you claim?
Claims are for when we're sure we want to lynch, as a last resort before that point.
Quote from LW »
this isn't a case of explaining it later, its the case of your read changed which doesn't show a natural progression
Vaimes, Tom, and Jack gave tacit approval for my wagon as well.
Shadow and M+/Sloth are absent.
Tubba never gave a stance on me until recently
Umami gives a light town read on me before my wagon starts, but never talks about me again. Later, in 652, she quickly gives her town and scum reads, but doesn't put me in either list.
Grapefruit doesn't give a stance on me (other than saying that he can't figure out why Jack had a gut-town read on me)
The last three votes on me (GJ, LW, and Rod) were ALL voting Axelrod before moving onto my wagon.
LW, Jack, and to a lesser extent Rodemy listed me as seeming town before voting / supporting my wagon.
~~~~
What strikes me as wierd is I didn't feel Axelrod's pbpa on me particularly good, yet a lot of people seemed convinced by it. I'm obviously biased, but a lot of it was based on me not explaining myself. It wasn't awful, but it a slam dunk case either (Axel himself admits this).
GJ votes me immediately after the case, despite having his vote on Axel previously. TBF, he had me/axel/Jack as his "there likely scum here" pile, and his read on Axel seemed to be more based on Axel not providing effort rather than Axel being actively scummy. If either flips scum, I would take a look at the other; GJ prodding Axel then unvoting when Axel provides content could be s/s.
LW's vote is strange.
540 he seems to change his mind midpost. He starts off disliking Axel's wall, then agreeing with all of the points. It's especially weird because he had me as town up until this, and I don't understand what about Axel's post changed that. like look
Quote from LW »
if you read Prisoners, I still agree this is a good reason to see ZDS as town, but definitely not strong
feels like an afterthought to explain a read, that was probably just TMI
If he agrees that the reasoning is good... how is that TMI? I can see not agreeing with my reasoning, that's fine, but he seems to simultaneously agree with my reasoning and not see it.
LW strikes me as the type of player that always says what's on top of his head (main reason I've been town reading him), but this makes no sense.
With Jack, it's extremely similar. Saying I'm likely town, then changing their mind after reading Axel's post.
Tom and Vaimes say my wagon is fine which is... well fine. It's passive, but I can understand the feeling of being okay with a wagon but not having super strong feeling one way or another.
Tubba doesn't comment on me, just responds to a question.
Grapefruit doesn't really comment on me, but seems to have a much stronger scumread on Jack.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grape and tom's alliance against Jack combined with tom's pointless overexplanation for why he likes Grape better than the lurkers is buddy-ish. It's a tenuous path that I'm not willing to pursue toDay (it depends on too many things: whether tom's overexplanation is scummy rather than only strange, whether ITF is scum, whether ITF's role is important enough for two scum to buddy up so blatantly to distract away from him, maybe etc.), but it's there.
tom,
1) I'm trying to figure out IF I have an issue with your overexplanations (beyond finding it pointless and strange).
2) You went from being fine with an ITF wagon (544) to liking his response despite it not being "super AI" (742) to listing him among your town reads (748). Can you explain the progression? Also, how much do you find him townie on his own and how much does that read depend on other reads?
shadow scumreading Vaimes because the layout of his readlist was bad, and otherwise townreading him, is strange as well.
I like ITF's tone and I'm fine with his answers in 818.
Mostly written for myself to keep track of what happened with my wagon. Half of it was written intending to become a post, but it's sorta half formed.
Rod's vote on Vaimes was pretty meh, and his reversal from Axelrod to me didn't feel genuine. Like, I can understand reading someone's analysis and changing one's mind, but I find it very strange that he didn't read Axelrod's pbpa until his vote on me if he was scumreading Axel.
You spectated Prison Block, were you not following during the "Rodemy, read the ******* flips" episode? I wouldn't put much weight either way into Rod not paying attention/not reading posts.
---
Quote from Wikipedia synopsis on the book »
Like many Shellwords, the core of Sursamen is known to be inhabited by a mysterious creature called a Xinthian Tensile Aeranothaur, whom the Sarl worship as their "WorldGod."
The Iln entity kills all nearby Sarl and Octs - including both Oramen and tyl Loesp - with a small thermonuclear explosion—after thanking them for their help—and heads towards the core of the Shellworld, planning to capture the Xinthian "WorldGod" and then destroy Sursamen by generating and detonating antimatter.
Litterally the only way the WorldGod makes sense as vanilla is if silver intentionally tried to punish flavourgaming.
But if I use my own role as a reference, and google-fu since I've never read the source novels, you absolutely can flavourgame it correctly (ie the importance of my role and that of my character seem to fit together).
It's not a slamdunk by any means because flavour arguments never are, but I can't bring myself to see it as entirely meaningless.
Heh I just read a synopsis, and that world god is clearly a powerful bad guy.
I would be ok with lynching a vanilla claim to see if flavorgaming has merit.
Haven't read the books, but I should be the lynch regardless. There'll be too many question marks with my slot if I live, so I'd rather get lynched now than later.
On Rod, I read parts of Prison, some more than others, don't remember the part you're talking about. But it's a fair point that Rod is the type to miss stuff like that. Bleh.
Axelrod is fairly gut, unvoting me on 735 seemed somewhat premature. Come to think of it he maybe should be light red rather than red.
Tubba has a few things. His vote coming into the game didn't feel right. After that, he didn't do much other than question Rhand on a fairly obvious joke post, and didn't really try to push his scumread. Didn't comment on my wagon either, which although Grapefruit sorta did the same thing, Grapefruit was actively going after his scumread. #779 was a better post, but his points on me seem like trying to look better after I get lynched. It's not trying to stop the wagon really, it's more saying he has a bad feeling about it.
I've agreed with Grapefruit's points on Jack. Also haven't had the same gut-town read on him as Prison.
Also I would rather just get it out the way and die today then try to agrue aganist stuff that I think is wrong.
Can't be bothered with another long day phase of it that will waste town time and let scum do nothing in the meantime but hide. So either lynch me here or Vig me tonight if we have one.
I actually changed my view after a full reread it had nothing to do with axel. Espically since I still scumread him as well. Wisp on the other hand it is confusing I agree like I pointed out in my read of them their read on you changed really fast in their 2 vote burst segment.
Umami
Grapefruit
ZDS
LW
Rhand
Killjoy
Vaimes
Gentleman Johnny
Sloth
tom
Shadow
Rodemy
Axelrod
Tubba
Jack
current gut reads. I hate how much neutral I have, but I don't feel confident right now.
Lw's moved down because I can't figure out his reactions to my wagon. I liked Grapefruit's points on Jack.
I just realized this how is Umani your top town. Your notes do not make it sound that way espically her stance on you.
Having Grape that high also makes little sense bases off your comments on Me. I would expect Grape to be same as Tom or lower not higher. A lot of these reads make no sense based off the comments
Yeh this “lynch me” “no me” thing is just weird.
And so is wanting to die in the first place. That never advances any wincon.
I don't want to die or plan to give up. I just don't want to be the guy who is in the POE all game and be used as a mislynch. Much rather die early so people can reveulate and not be a waste of towns resources and time
I can see the scummy tendencies others have pointed out on ITF, but I’m not seeing the scum equity. I don’t see what he’s trying to accomplish and it doesn’t look like anyone’s coordinating with him. Maybe that’s scum cutting the anchor loose, but even when ITF was posting there wasn’t anyone “liking it”. Probably just level 0 again but there should be some push back?
I didn’t like Umami’s entrance, seemed aggressive and mud-slingy, then with Last and her rolling around each other’s mouths I thought might be something. Last’s “explanation” is weak, but it seems like all I’m going to get there and no one else wanted to talk about it. Could see one in Last/Umami still.
If ZDS is scum this game, he’s dethroning somebody. Scum would’ve won last game if he showed this much wim earlier. He’s hunting and I’m agreeing with a lot of his thoughts. After my horrendous reads last game (hi KJ!), I’m probably gonna sheep Z, except ITF shouldn’t be dinkable this easily. Rhand mentioned that L-2 this early Day one is unusual and I agree.
Rhand has made some questionable statements. I didn’t like how he said he thought KJ rolled scum, begged off pushing or questioning there, and voted Axel after saying he didn’t have any scum reads. Unless it’s wine I think scumRhand doesn’t mess that up?
Tom is fine. I’m always worried back of my mind that this is the game he uses his “infallibility” to mislynch me, but I jived with his “Rod Brain TransferenceTM” and his thread presence doesn’t look like someone trying to steer the game.
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that down.
I don’t play like Tom, or Shadow, or Rodemy, or Last, or Johnny, or Rhand.
And that’s fine. I don’t care if you can’t read me as town, I’m looking for scum. If I see something that pings me, I’ll bring it up but I’m not going to clog the thread with musings that don’t mean anything. This is especially noticeable day one when there’s no information to work with. I’d rather be right than admired, sure than celebrated and I’m never comfortable putting more of myself on the table than required. I was so wrong last game, that I’m sitting on my hands more than usual and more than I should. But it’d be a mistake to assume that means I’m not playing, that I’m not watching the game and hunting for potential scum.
This is becoming a ramble.
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
That’s more concisely where I’m at fwiw.
Most of the kinda sus is people I’m wanting to see more of, ITF would probably be lower if it didn’t seem so easy.
Well me and Wisp liked ITF at the time so this first point is wrong. Also they is not always coordination some scum just let each other play their own game and see what happens.
I agree on Umani a degree but less so on Wisp.
I agree with your ZDS read so have fun getting scum read for it by other people lol.
The last part of this makes me townread you a bit more, this feels like honesty rather then trying to manipulate others in my view.
Explain to me some of these reads though why is rod in your town pile and also why am I in the scum side since you seem to be on the same page as me on a couple of things, I find this a odd take. Also why is grape so low as well unless you said it elsewhere the rest of them you had some mention of.
I find myself not necessarily mirroring rod’s thoughts, but can mesh with how/why he thinks them. You’re not in the scum side, neutral/sort later pile. After I went out in Prison I thought you were scum so I don’t know how to read you, therefore slot you into the “wait and sees”. I don’t understand what you mean by sharing my ZDS read and getting scumread for it. As for Grape, I feel like I have a pretty good chance of reading him but need to see a little more. Honestly, that’s most of my positions right now. I need a flip, something concrete to start trying to build from.
Umami
Grapefruit
ZDS
LW
Rhand
Killjoy
Vaimes
Gentleman Johnny
Sloth
tom
Shadow
Rodemy
Axelrod
Tubba
Jack
current gut reads. I hate how much neutral I have, but I don't feel confident right now.
Lw's moved down because I can't figure out his reactions to my wagon. I liked Grapefruit's points on Jack.
I just realized this how is Umani your top town. Your notes do not make it sound that way espically her stance on you.
Having Grape that high also makes little sense bases off your comments on Me. I would expect Grape to be same as Tom or lower not higher. A lot of these reads make no sense based off the comments
@ITF
I agree that ZDS is just not someone I want to lynch, and this has very little to do with me agreeing with your read, and more so how you presented it
first it was, "because he was scum hunting" and then it was because "he is re-evaluating"
That’s L-2. It’s been ages since I’ve seen claim range this long before deadline on mtgs lol
If I am doing math correctly, it's like 5 days from this post. Considering that Prison Block (and based on Wisp, at least one other game before it) has ended in no lynch, it seems that trying to consolidate that much time is not only fine but preferred.
My issue right now as I try to restart my brain, is that I don't really see a strong counter push for anyone other than ITF. Everyone has their one white wolf they are trying to hunt, but it doesn't seem like there is a real counterwagon opposition to ITF.
I think Rod immediately voting after ZDS pointed out his case looks kind of wolfy. It's a little blatant of an 180, but still there.
Azel's unvote is also really weird. Like, what town or wolf isn't going to make a post like that?
I like LW's criticism of tom's list. Adding on to it, it feels weird that there is no counterwagon from tom considering a 3rd town read is being pushed with no counterwagon in site. I get you think Jack is a wolf, and I have looked over JAck's post and really don't see what you see. I don't really see strong town vibes, but I don't see wolf ones either.
Quote from Tubba »
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that dow
I don't like lurkers and I don't like reactors in general (as mafia players, not as people, just to be clear). Slightly more active post and maybe a smidgen more posting will get me off your back. And it's not just you. Rhand can confirm I occasionally get suspicious of him when he goes on his cruise runs on occasion.
I am bringing up my last post, because I was feeling nervous about no counterwagon which typically means (wolves are fine with the game state, wolves gave up on their buddy, or wolves are weakish players.
But it seems like JAck is a psuedo counterwagon, and I say psuedo because while there are more people than just tom who think he is a wolf, only tom/grape are voting for Jack o-0
tom talk to me. Has your lack of force on Jack compared to last game because the KJ push was a flop (prison KJ), or is it just an effect of this purposeful slow down? Or something else.
I get the slowdown for OoG reasons, and have considered doing so myself (lest I put an insane amount of stress on future games), but I am just trying to make sense of these differences.
I am bringing up my last post, because I was feeling nervous about no counterwagon which typically means (wolves are fine with the game state, wolves gave up on their buddy, or wolves are weakish players.
But it seems like JAck is a psuedo counterwagon, and I say psuedo because while there are more people than just tom who think he is a wolf, only tom/grape are voting for Jack o-0
Oh I'm for sure the counter wagon here. A lot of people are on the edge of voting me
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I'll vote ITF to avoid a No Lynch, but ideally they'll catch up, claim, and place a vote.
Unvote, vote ITF
Not a scumread, but leading wagon, claim, info, haven't really read his posts aside from his recent catchup-ish, etc.
Gentleman Johnny
Sloth
Killjoy
Axelrod
Grapefruit21
Lastwhisper
ZeDorkSlipeur
Rhand
Umami
TubbaFett
Rodemy
tomsloger
Jackrito
Vaimes
ITF
************
Rod/Tom is my null line.
Rhand/Umami probably the same alignment.
Sloth shouldn’t actually be that high, but it seemed funny to put him there are sheer personality.
GJ, still think you’re an easy town read.
Last moved more than anyone else as I went. But it’s Last so yeah.
Vaimes’ readlist was hot garbage (more the layout and how it was setup vs the order) and that is severely lowering him in my eyes. He’s not a good day 1 lynch and I would have him townlean other than the list.
Oh rhand....uh, you’re scum for calling me scum early game. Amidoingitright?
Vote ITF
Want a claim, completely unmoved by his pressure response, and if he flips scum, Tom being impressed by it is super sketch.
@Rhand: Is my activity level the only reason you thought I was scum?
I'm mildly concerned with how much of a weenie you're not being right now. This feels like the first time I've seen you with a confident scumread on Day 1, or do you feel this is typical for you, nothing out of the ordinary?
I didn't claim because my wagon was bad, and my claim wasn't going to change anything, but at this rate the game just needs to move on.
I'm the WorldGod, vanilla town.
There are points where I would be able to keep up, but I know myself well enough at this point that I know there will be days that I don't have enough energy to spend making perfectly explained posts.
I'm not faulting GJ or KJ or anyone for grilling me on it, it's understandable to have a slight scum reaction on reads you don't understand, and I'm not trying to make an excuse, I should be held accountable.
This is the reaction I was expecting, kinda surprised Axel unvoted me.
To me, they are very similar. "Scumhunting" is somewhat vague, so I tried to expand on what it was about your scumhunting that I liked.
Honestly, I didn't realize it would be necessary. I know that sounds silly now, but at the time I thought the second post was enough to give why I thought what I thought.
Because it stood out to me, my feelings on other players weren't solid enough at time.
Claims are for when we're sure we want to lynch, as a last resort before that point.
Um, no? My read never changed.
Vaimes, Tom, and Jack gave tacit approval for my wagon as well.
Shadow and M+/Sloth are absent.
Tubba never gave a stance on me until recently
Umami gives a light town read on me before my wagon starts, but never talks about me again. Later, in 652, she quickly gives her town and scum reads, but doesn't put me in either list.
Grapefruit doesn't give a stance on me (other than saying that he can't figure out why Jack had a gut-town read on me)
The last three votes on me (GJ, LW, and Rod) were ALL voting Axelrod before moving onto my wagon.
LW, Jack, and to a lesser extent Rodemy listed me as seeming town before voting / supporting my wagon.
~~~~
What strikes me as wierd is I didn't feel Axelrod's pbpa on me particularly good, yet a lot of people seemed convinced by it. I'm obviously biased, but a lot of it was based on me not explaining myself. It wasn't awful, but it a slam dunk case either (Axel himself admits this).
GJ votes me immediately after the case, despite having his vote on Axel previously. TBF, he had me/axel/Jack as his "there likely scum here" pile, and his read on Axel seemed to be more based on Axel not providing effort rather than Axel being actively scummy. If either flips scum, I would take a look at the other; GJ prodding Axel then unvoting when Axel provides content could be s/s.
LW's vote is strange.
540 he seems to change his mind midpost. He starts off disliking Axel's wall, then agreeing with all of the points. It's especially weird because he had me as town up until this, and I don't understand what about Axel's post changed that. like look
If he agrees that the reasoning is good... how is that TMI? I can see not agreeing with my reasoning, that's fine, but he seems to simultaneously agree with my reasoning and not see it.
LW strikes me as the type of player that always says what's on top of his head (main reason I've been town reading him), but this makes no sense.
With Jack, it's extremely similar. Saying I'm likely town, then changing their mind after reading Axel's post.
Tom and Vaimes say my wagon is fine which is... well fine. It's passive, but I can understand the feeling of being okay with a wagon but not having super strong feeling one way or another.
Tubba doesn't comment on me, just responds to a question.
Grapefruit doesn't really comment on me, but seems to have a much stronger scumread on Jack.
I'm the first vote on you and yet I'm nowhere in your notes. Sup wit dat?
Grapefruit
ZDS
LW
Rhand
Killjoy
Vaimes
Gentleman Johnny
Sloth
tom
Shadow
Rodemy
Axelrod
Tubba
Jack
current gut reads. I hate how much neutral I have, but I don't feel confident right now.
Lw's moved down because I can't figure out his reactions to my wagon. I liked Grapefruit's points on Jack.
Also, talk about that Rod read please.
Grape and tom's alliance against Jack combined with tom's pointless overexplanation for why he likes Grape better than the lurkers is buddy-ish. It's a tenuous path that I'm not willing to pursue toDay (it depends on too many things: whether tom's overexplanation is scummy rather than only strange, whether ITF is scum, whether ITF's role is important enough for two scum to buddy up so blatantly to distract away from him, maybe etc.), but it's there.
tom,
1) I'm trying to figure out IF I have an issue with your overexplanations (beyond finding it pointless and strange).
2) You went from being fine with an ITF wagon (544) to liking his response despite it not being "super AI" (742) to listing him among your town reads (748). Can you explain the progression? Also, how much do you find him townie on his own and how much does that read depend on other reads?
shadow scumreading Vaimes because the layout of his readlist was bad, and otherwise townreading him, is strange as well.
I like ITF's tone and I'm fine with his answers in 818.
There's no mention of that in 735 (the big defense wall)
Seconding Rhand's questions. Also, ITF, can you explain each of your scumreads?
Rod's vote on Vaimes was pretty meh, and his reversal from Axelrod to me didn't feel genuine. Like, I can understand reading someone's analysis and changing one's mind, but I find it very strange that he didn't read Axelrod's pbpa until his vote on me if he was scumreading Axel.
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Litterally the only way the WorldGod makes sense as vanilla is if silver intentionally tried to punish flavourgaming.
But if I use my own role as a reference, and google-fu since I've never read the source novels, you absolutely can flavourgame it correctly (ie the importance of my role and that of my character seem to fit together).
It's not a slamdunk by any means because flavour arguments never are, but I can't bring myself to see it as entirely meaningless.
I would be ok with lynching a vanilla claim to see if flavorgaming has merit.
On Rod, I read parts of Prison, some more than others, don't remember the part you're talking about. But it's a fair point that Rod is the type to miss stuff like that. Bleh.
Axelrod is fairly gut, unvoting me on 735 seemed somewhat premature. Come to think of it he maybe should be light red rather than red.
Tubba has a few things. His vote coming into the game didn't feel right. After that, he didn't do much other than question Rhand on a fairly obvious joke post, and didn't really try to push his scumread. Didn't comment on my wagon either, which although Grapefruit sorta did the same thing, Grapefruit was actively going after his scumread. #779 was a better post, but his points on me seem like trying to look better after I get lynched. It's not trying to stop the wagon really, it's more saying he has a bad feeling about it.
I've agreed with Grapefruit's points on Jack. Also haven't had the same gut-town read on him as Prison.
Can't be bothered with another long day phase of it that will waste town time and let scum do nothing in the meantime but hide. So either lynch me here or Vig me tonight if we have one.
And so is wanting to die in the first place. That never advances any wincon.
I just realized this how is Umani your top town. Your notes do not make it sound that way espically her stance on you.
Having Grape that high also makes little sense bases off your comments on Me. I would expect Grape to be same as Tom or lower not higher. A lot of these reads make no sense based off the comments
Something about his reads seems fake and lazy.
@Shadow: I know this is old but it bothered me then: why were you trying to keep the LW wagon going by pushing tom to stay on it?
I don't want to die or plan to give up. I just don't want to be the guy who is in the POE all game and be used as a mislynch. Much rather die early so people can reveulate and not be a waste of towns resources and time
I find myself not necessarily mirroring rod’s thoughts, but can mesh with how/why he thinks them. You’re not in the scum side, neutral/sort later pile. After I went out in Prison I thought you were scum so I don’t know how to read you, therefore slot you into the “wait and sees”. I don’t understand what you mean by sharing my ZDS read and getting scumread for it. As for Grape, I feel like I have a pretty good chance of reading him but need to see a little more. Honestly, that’s most of my positions right now. I need a flip, something concrete to start trying to build from.
Jack/ITF not w/w
I agree that ZDS is just not someone I want to lynch, and this has very little to do with me agreeing with your read, and more so how you presented it
first it was, "because he was scum hunting" and then it was because "he is re-evaluating"
early work, will respond to all this after work
is ITF at L2 right now?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
If I am doing math correctly, it's like 5 days from this post. Considering that Prison Block (and based on Wisp, at least one other game before it) has ended in no lynch, it seems that trying to consolidate that much time is not only fine but preferred.
My issue right now as I try to restart my brain, is that I don't really see a strong counter push for anyone other than ITF. Everyone has their one white wolf they are trying to hunt, but it doesn't seem like there is a real counterwagon opposition to ITF.
I think Rod immediately voting after ZDS pointed out his case looks kind of wolfy. It's a little blatant of an 180, but still there.
Azel's unvote is also really weird. Like, what town or wolf isn't going to make a post like that?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't like lurkers and I don't like reactors in general (as mafia players, not as people, just to be clear). Slightly more active post and maybe a smidgen more posting will get me off your back. And it's not just you. Rhand can confirm I occasionally get suspicious of him when he goes on his cruise runs on occasion.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Forgive me as my brain is blowing up right now, and I can't find a silver post that isn't a vaimes quote:
Are you voting JAck right now?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
In particular grape on jack and tubba on itf
But it seems like JAck is a psuedo counterwagon, and I say psuedo because while there are more people than just tom who think he is a wolf, only tom/grape are voting for Jack o-0
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I get the slowdown for OoG reasons, and have considered doing so myself (lest I put an insane amount of stress on future games), but I am just trying to make sense of these differences.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Oh I'm for sure the counter wagon here. A lot of people are on the edge of voting me