I'm not swayed one way or another by ITF's matter-of-fact explanations, they say nothing about his intent. I was expecting something like this to happen regardless of his alignment (because it often does, with any player) and I expect the wagon-analysis to be a lot more telling.
ITF,
1) Why did you go from "I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today." (#270) to "I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. " (#274)? They aren't the same at all.
2) Why not mention the meta basis behind 274 until after you've been pushed, and why not actually explain it until after you've been pushed some more?
3) Why single me out? I understand why you would townclear Whispy and Umami, they are/were controversial figures, but that wasn't the case for me at all. And it's not like you've been liberally throwing town reads all over the place, aside from me (and to a degree your vote on shadow) you have only expressed opinions on a very limited number of then-controversial figures.
ITF's flip will determine my read on axel, we aren't lynching him today it looks like. and itf doesn't have a lot to go off of. it's a good place to start.
1) Why?
2) Any thoughts on #634?
I'm surprised Axel was so easily swayed by ITF's mostly NAI defense. Like Whispy said, it's "partnery". That means if ITF flips scum, it makes Axelrod look worse. I don't understand how Whispy can simultaneously like ITF better and Axelrod worse in light of Axel's unvote.
Oh my Sloth...
Don’t you dare charm me with semi-naked pictures!
I'll hit you up if you tell me who are we voting and why.
ITF for sounding fake. You can ISO them, not too many posts there.
@ITF: I remember Winterfell I counterclaimed Arianrhod D1 because he claimed my role, you got lynched D2 after being copped and I rode to victory on that counterclaim.
I remember KillJoy correctly guessed my role (message-sending godfather with a 1-shot Ninja) and I asked him if he really thought that could be a role to get him off my back. Good times
@ZDS
I don't think it matters, ITF's train is still up
I really don't like Axel's play here
his aggression and someone lazy style of play doesn't feel like a town trying to understand the game
I also still don't really like his vote on Grape
both good votes, and if everything stays the same my vote
will end up on ITF to secure a hammer, so that we don't end up in another bad
no lynch situation
"I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today." (#270) to "I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads.
like this still pings me as someone making up reads
@ITF
why didnt you claim?
What are your wolf reads?
Quote from ITF »
You aren't the only one to bring up TMI, but I still don't quite get this. I gave a read and explained myself later... this is a very common thing to happen in a game of mafia. If my reasoning that I gave later doesn't make sense in the context that it was originally given, sure, that would be bad. Nobody seems to think that, just that I didn't explain it upfront.
this isn't a case of explaining it later, its the case of your read changed which doesn't show a natural progression
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Why exactly do me/grape/vaimes
get null reads
while m7/Shadow
who are probably the most null players in this game
are lower than us
thats a decent question!
Im not really sure what made me do that. Could probably call both those sections null and im just giving some credit in my head for "playing the game"
Really theres not much difference between the gray group and the tiers on either side. And the whole thing is probably within 10% of =!rand other than maybe umami
So i guess the answer here is some combination of gut and an early feeling that active posters itg are town?
Grape is probably the weird one here. He hasnt played much more than shadow or sloths slot. But he somehow feels just a little better
Grape has played much more than both Shadow and Sloth+7 combined, and unlike them he has actual posts. There is no need to overexplain why he's above the the previous two. Why do you see him as comparable to Shadow and Sloth?
I mean i think his impact is closer to shadow/sloth/tubba than to last/vaimes but i still put him with the latter
Im more saying that he isnt higher because of activity like the rest of his group, but because i liked his reentrance from the dlp game with the unami townread.
But again, that was my sorting based on feels im just trying to explain now.
Feel free to remove some tiers and just think of it as 6 towns, 7 shrugs, and 2 scum
Im more saying that he isnt higher because of activity like the rest of his group, but because i liked his reentrance from the dlp game with the unami townread.
I'm struggling to find hints of the second quote in the first one, but there must be something since you are "more saying".
Semantics aside, my issue is with the overexplanation, not with his position in your tier-list (it's not relevant yet) or with the number of tiers (who cares).
Neat! Why ITF? And why are you voting Last? He asked rapid-fire, trying to delay reading 15 pages as long as possible.
#532
Im not, but #691
Noted.
I'm not particularly impressed with either post, but I guess I'll compare the cases as I read along.
Still, I specially don't get Axel's case since the way he's outlining it describes a natural progression of thought from ITF...which is, you know, Townie. At the very least it's Not Scum. Perhaps he was just bad at verbalizing it and it'll make sense as I read. So far, not digging the wagon.
Jackrito was my strongest townread last game so I will probably look into how different he is on this one.
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
GJ/Rod would also be null/grey category or rod maybe even as yellow
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
GJ/Rod would also be null/grey category or rod maybe even as yellow
So maybe it's not that similar after all but decent amount of overlap
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
@Sloth
#758 talks a bit about it
and I dont have a read on Tubba or Shadow
shadow is more null
Tubba is doing Tubba things? like I will say I could really use that Mason Chat again
not particularly interested in voting either of them as it stands
Im more saying that he isnt higher because of activity like the rest of his group, but because i liked his reentrance from the dlp game with the unami townread.
I'm struggling to find hints of the second quote in the first one, but there must be something since you are "more saying".
Semantics aside, my issue is with the overexplanation, not with his position in your tier-list (it's not relevant yet) or with the number of tiers (who cares).
Neat! Why ITF? And why are you voting Last? He asked rapid-fire, trying to delay reading 15 pages as long as possible.
#532
Im not, but #691
Noted.
I'm not particularly impressed with either post, but I guess I'll compare the cases as I read along.
Still, I specially don't get Axel's case since the way he's outlining it describes a natural progression of thought from ITF...which is, you know, Townie. At the very least it's Not Scum. Perhaps he was just bad at verbalizing it and it'll make sense as I read. So far, not digging the wagon.
Jackrito was my strongest townread last game so I will probably look into how different he is on this one.
whats unimpressive about mine? I didnt quote anything surely its "pending" until you see what im talking about and start comparing jack to last game
I guess ive done everything but the rainbow wall at this point
Umami
Rhand
ZDS/ITF
GJ/rod
Axel/kj
Vaimes/last/grape
m7/shadow
Tubba
Jack
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
GJ/Rod would also be null/grey category or rod maybe even as yellow
theyre both in a place of just
Seeming really like themselves for me
Thats not a townread that lasts past day 1 but its enough for me rn
whats unimpressive about mine? I didnt quote anything surely its "pending" until you see what im talking about and start comparing jack to last game
Just real quick: The quote doesn't have a whole lot of significance without context.
The rest of what you point out in #691 is valid, but without examples/quotes I can't really say you're correct, or if you're just interpreting things badly.
However, I admit it's hard to give examples of "all exposition no impact" or "not trying to get lynches."
I like your take on Jack more than Axel's game on ITF, as said, because if what you're saying is accurate regarding Jack's play, it deviates from prison enough that I can see it coming from scum.
All of this boils down to my needing to read the game to get clarity. ...but I'll do that later.
Kingdom Hearts 3 awaits.
I can see the scummy tendencies others have pointed out on ITF, but I’m not seeing the scum equity. I don’t see what he’s trying to accomplish and it doesn’t look like anyone’s coordinating with him. Maybe that’s scum cutting the anchor loose, but even when ITF was posting there wasn’t anyone “liking it”. Probably just level 0 again but there should be some push back?
I didn’t like Umami’s entrance, seemed aggressive and mud-slingy, then with Last and her rolling around each other’s mouths I thought might be something. Last’s “explanation” is weak, but it seems like all I’m going to get there and no one else wanted to talk about it. Could see one in Last/Umami still.
If ZDS is scum this game, he’s dethroning somebody. Scum would’ve won last game if he showed this much wim earlier. He’s hunting and I’m agreeing with a lot of his thoughts. After my horrendous reads last game (hi KJ!), I’m probably gonna sheep Z, except ITF shouldn’t be dinkable this easily. Rhand mentioned that L-2 this early Day one is unusual and I agree.
Rhand has made some questionable statements. I didn’t like how he said he thought KJ rolled scum, begged off pushing or questioning there, and voted Axel after saying he didn’t have any scum reads. Unless it’s wine I think scumRhand doesn’t mess that up?
Tom is fine. I’m always worried back of my mind that this is the game he uses his “infallibility” to mislynch me, but I jived with his “Rod Brain TransferenceTM” and his thread presence doesn’t look like someone trying to steer the game.
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that down.
I don’t play like Tom, or Shadow, or Rodemy, or Last, or Johnny, or Rhand.
And that’s fine. I don’t care if you can’t read me as town, I’m looking for scum. If I see something that pings me, I’ll bring it up but I’m not going to clog the thread with musings that don’t mean anything. This is especially noticeable day one when there’s no information to work with. I’d rather be right than admired, sure than celebrated and I’m never comfortable putting more of myself on the table than required. I was so wrong last game, that I’m sitting on my hands more than usual and more than I should. But it’d be a mistake to assume that means I’m not playing, that I’m not watching the game and hunting for potential scum.
This is becoming a ramble.
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
That’s more concisely where I’m at fwiw.
Most of the kinda sus is people I’m wanting to see more of, ITF would probably be lower if it didn’t seem so easy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@tubba: I really, really want KJ to get some experience as mafia and would only lynch him D1 if there’s no other good lynch.
He has the potential of becoming awesome at this game, but the lack of rolling mafia (apart from a micro) impacts his town game and that’s sad.
Also @tubba: since when are you posting early reads lists? Feels very un-you.
Onto ITF I got this really wrong after looking at them in full and not isolation their tone looked good in real time, on this not sure why I'm the only one who got hate for this since Wisp did the same thing as me. They lack conviction even more then Umani does. Their stance on seeing me as a confirmed town in prison, and ZDS as scum early feels like them trying to give off air that they are good at mafia. This and how much they townread ZDs is weird to me. Add part of that townread this game coming from ZDS revualteing reads which imo he is not really doing apart from on Wisp. It just seems a bit TMi, and trying to make up reasons to back it. The vote on shadow is pointless and a easy out, add this to being fine with vote on Tubba says to me this is a watch from sidelines mindset and not care who gets lynched 415 is just a terrible post in general as well, it is far too hedgy and a tiny bit ATE. The amount of negative points in so little is pretty telling maybe they get better but I'm fine with thaat lynch today
So this stuck out to me. Well the whole section on ITF feels not great but the wondering why someone else didn't get pushed for the same thing is something I see more from scum than town. Especially in this case where Tom's case was much more about the Umami "tunnel" than it was ITF (ITF caught my eye but it was more about Umami and ZDS).
What's more interesting about this though is that it's this big case about how his mind changed on ITF after reading his posts in isolation, but finds issues with pretty much everything that ITF has done. Which is a huge depature from calling ITF super pure. There is no sign of progression or even hints at what Jack liked originally. Now townies do tend to 180 their reads more than scum (a lesson I'm trying to remember) but usually that's in response to a specific post or read. This is just a complete changing of his mind after a reread when there was no new content.
So Rhand just sort of swooped in as a sub, identified Sloth as scum, and just kind went off and did his own thing. I was dead at this point but still following and it was awesome, but I also already knew that Sloth was scum. But Rhand sort of offered minimal explanation and didn't seem concerned with persuading others that his read was correct. Rhand was also murdered before Sloth. That was what was driving my question of why he doesn't explain his reads as town, because I feel like he should try to persuade town when he's confident and that by not explaining he is making his town game harder and his future scum game easier. To be fair, Osi also was kind of similar
Thanks for the answer. A couple things, one Sloth died before Rhand (barely, and Rhand had flipped town already thanks to a desperado). That said his coming in with fully formed reads is a lot more indicative of his being a replacement there than his alignment. I also think you're underestimating his case on Sloth (which was large).
@tubba: I really, really want KJ to get some experience as mafia and would only lynch him D1 if there’s no other good lynch.
He has the potential of becoming awesome at this game, but the lack of rolling mafia (apart from a micro) impacts his town game and that’s sad.
Also @tubba: since when are you posting early reads lists? Feels very un-you.
I’m just tired of the “hur-dur lol Tubba is scummy all the time” it’s annoying. I know I’m not good yet, but there is room in the universe for my playstyle. That said I’d be a fool to not try and adapt and work with others a little more clearly. That’s barely a readslist anyways, but if it helps others to get some thoughts out of me, I need to put it out there even if it’s wrong/dumb.
Rod/ZDS are not w/w. Tom and ZDS probably aren't either but not as confident there.
Not a fan of ITF promising a claim after catching up and not delivering, but it's probably not AI on it's own. I have them at possible scum but less likely than Jack.
Grape
Umami
Rhand/LW
Mush
Vaimes/ITF
Jack
I could maybe bump GJ, tom, and ZDS up out of mush but I don't feel that confident about about them. Just vaguely townie in a generic way.
Onto ITF I got this really wrong after looking at them in full and not isolation their tone looked good in real time, on this not sure why I'm the only one who got hate for this since Wisp did the same thing as me. They lack conviction even more then Umani does. Their stance on seeing me as a confirmed town in prison, and ZDS as scum early feels like them trying to give off air that they are good at mafia. This and how much they townread ZDs is weird to me. Add part of that townread this game coming from ZDS revualteing reads which imo he is not really doing apart from on Wisp. It just seems a bit TMi, and trying to make up reasons to back it. The vote on shadow is pointless and a easy out, add this to being fine with vote on Tubba says to me this is a watch from sidelines mindset and not care who gets lynched 415 is just a terrible post in general as well, it is far too hedgy and a tiny bit ATE. The amount of negative points in so little is pretty telling maybe they get better but I'm fine with thaat lynch today
So this stuck out to me. Well the whole section on ITF feels not great but the wondering why someone else didn't get pushed for the same thing is something I see more from scum than town. Especially in this case where Tom's case was much more about the Umami "tunnel" than it was ITF (ITF caught my eye but it was more about Umami and ZDS).
What's more interesting about this though is that it's this big case about how his mind changed on ITF after reading his posts in isolation, but finds issues with pretty much everything that ITF has done. Which is a huge depature from calling ITF super pure. There is no sign of progression or even hints at what Jack liked originally. Now townies do tend to 180 their reads more than scum (a lesson I'm trying to remember) but usually that's in response to a specific post or read. This is just a complete changing of his mind after a reread when there was no new content.
So Rhand just sort of swooped in as a sub, identified Sloth as scum, and just kind went off and did his own thing. I was dead at this point but still following and it was awesome, but I also already knew that Sloth was scum. But Rhand sort of offered minimal explanation and didn't seem concerned with persuading others that his read was correct. Rhand was also murdered before Sloth. That was what was driving my question of why he doesn't explain his reads as town, because I feel like he should try to persuade town when he's confident and that by not explaining he is making his town game harder and his future scum game easier. To be fair, Osi also was kind of similar
Thanks for the answer. A couple things, one Sloth died before Rhand (barely, and Rhand had flipped town already thanks to a desperado). That said his coming in with fully formed reads is a lot more indicative of his being a replacement there than his alignment. I also think you're underestimating his case on Sloth (which was large).
@Wisp why isn't Jack a D1 option?
Hi Sloth!
The change in view is what happens when i have time to read properly instead of skim reading at work. If you can seriously tell me that your view does not change from casual reading in mafia compared to being more serious. We are clearly very different which is fine. On my Wisp thing I'm calling it out because it is biased viewing at the end of the day, that is being used aganist me so I will take issue with it. I don't care if it makes me scummy.
I have already explained myself on ZDS my stance is not changeing there and nor should it for now. Once we have flips and I can review them yeah sure I worry about it more, I can't go around doubting people off the bat every game off one bad exp. I still don't see the issue with my Umani approuch, just because you all disagree does not make me scum. Guess I look at Tom's points on it again.
The change in view is what happens when i have time to read properly instead of skim reading at work. If you can seriously tell me that your view does not change from casual reading in mafia compared to being more serious. We are clearly very different which is fine. On my Wisp thing I'm calling it out because it is biased viewing at the end of the day, that is being used aganist me so I will take issue with it. I don't care if it makes me scummy.
I have already explained myself on ZDS my stance is not changeing there and nor should it for now. Once we have flips and I can review them yeah sure I worry about it more, I can't go around doubting people off the bat every game off one bad exp. I still don't see the issue with my Umani approuch, just because you all disagree does not make me scum. Guess I look at Tom's points on it again.
My reads do change from reading the game more closely but usually not from "pure" to not pointing to a single positive point. It's especially glaring given your reputation for hedging.
As for Umami it's not the disagreement it's that even before Umami became near universally town read you weren't really doing anything with your supposed tunnel. And you even described it as a parked vote.
I can see the scummy tendencies others have pointed out on ITF, but I’m not seeing the scum equity. I don’t see what he’s trying to accomplish and it doesn’t look like anyone’s coordinating with him. Maybe that’s scum cutting the anchor loose, but even when ITF was posting there wasn’t anyone “liking it”. Probably just level 0 again but there should be some push back?
I didn’t like Umami’s entrance, seemed aggressive and mud-slingy, then with Last and her rolling around each other’s mouths I thought might be something. Last’s “explanation” is weak, but it seems like all I’m going to get there and no one else wanted to talk about it. Could see one in Last/Umami still.
If ZDS is scum this game, he’s dethroning somebody. Scum would’ve won last game if he showed this much wim earlier. He’s hunting and I’m agreeing with a lot of his thoughts. After my horrendous reads last game (hi KJ!), I’m probably gonna sheep Z, except ITF shouldn’t be dinkable this easily. Rhand mentioned that L-2 this early Day one is unusual and I agree.
Rhand has made some questionable statements. I didn’t like how he said he thought KJ rolled scum, begged off pushing or questioning there, and voted Axel after saying he didn’t have any scum reads. Unless it’s wine I think scumRhand doesn’t mess that up?
Tom is fine. I’m always worried back of my mind that this is the game he uses his “infallibility” to mislynch me, but I jived with his “Rod Brain TransferenceTM” and his thread presence doesn’t look like someone trying to steer the game.
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that down.
I don’t play like Tom, or Shadow, or Rodemy, or Last, or Johnny, or Rhand.
And that’s fine. I don’t care if you can’t read me as town, I’m looking for scum. If I see something that pings me, I’ll bring it up but I’m not going to clog the thread with musings that don’t mean anything. This is especially noticeable day one when there’s no information to work with. I’d rather be right than admired, sure than celebrated and I’m never comfortable putting more of myself on the table than required. I was so wrong last game, that I’m sitting on my hands more than usual and more than I should. But it’d be a mistake to assume that means I’m not playing, that I’m not watching the game and hunting for potential scum.
This is becoming a ramble.
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
That’s more concisely where I’m at fwiw.
Most of the kinda sus is people I’m wanting to see more of, ITF would probably be lower if it didn’t seem so easy.
Well me and Wisp liked ITF at the time so this first point is wrong. Also they is not always coordination some scum just let each other play their own game and see what happens.
I agree on Umani a degree but less so on Wisp.
I agree with your ZDS read so have fun getting scum read for it by other people lol.
The last part of this makes me townread you a bit more, this feels like honesty rather then trying to manipulate others in my view.
Explain to me some of these reads though why is rod in your town pile and also why am I in the scum side since you seem to be on the same page as me on a couple of things, I find this a odd take. Also why is grape so low as well unless you said it elsewhere the rest of them you had some mention of.
The change in view is what happens when i have time to read properly instead of skim reading at work. If you can seriously tell me that your view does not change from casual reading in mafia compared to being more serious. We are clearly very different which is fine. On my Wisp thing I'm calling it out because it is biased viewing at the end of the day, that is being used aganist me so I will take issue with it. I don't care if it makes me scummy.
I have already explained myself on ZDS my stance is not changeing there and nor should it for now. Once we have flips and I can review them yeah sure I worry about it more, I can't go around doubting people off the bat every game off one bad exp. I still don't see the issue with my Umani approuch, just because you all disagree does not make me scum. Guess I look at Tom's points on it again.
My reads do change from reading the game more closely but usually not from "pure" to not pointing to a single positive point. It's especially glaring given your reputation for hedging.
As for Umami it's not the disagreement it's that even before Umami became near universally town read you weren't really doing anything with your supposed tunnel. And you even described it as a parked vote.
First point is fair I guess but happened.
On the second this baffles me a bit, partly because I was busy so did not have time to do much and even if I did what more would you like me to do with Umani I did a review for my read list and still feel the same way. ZDS summed it up a lot better then I ever could before and its not like in prison I was doing giant pushes on others the expectations here feel a bit unrealistic. I did my vote and gave my reasons I'm not the type to force my view on others espically on day one.
I agree with your ZDS read so have fun getting scum read for it by other people lol.
kek
@Grape
uhhm I feel like I am explaining this every time me and Jack are in the same game
but like I think the Jack is always a bad lynch day 1, given his playstyle
We can get a better read on the slot as the days go on
@tubba: I really, really want KJ to get some experience as mafia and would only lynch him D1 if there’s no other good lynch.
He has the potential of becoming awesome at this game, but the lack of rolling mafia (apart from a micro) impacts his town game and that’s sad.
Also @tubba: since when are you posting early reads lists? Feels very un-you.
I’m just tired of the “hur-dur lol Tubba is scummy all the time” it’s annoying. I know I’m not good yet, but there is room in the universe for my playstyle. That said I’d be a fool to not try and adapt and work with others a little more clearly. That’s barely a readslist anyways, but if it helps others to get some thoughts out of me, I need to put it out there even if it’s wrong/dumb.
scummy is definitely an overstatement, but I don't think the way you play helps you at all
I think Rhand questioning you for actually giving content just doesnt leave you any room to actually do work? if that makes sense
because if you do Tubba stuff, people will say you look bad, and if you make reads its weird because you barely do it? as he says
I've been putting off this game a bit because I know I need to reread everything, but deadline is in less than three days so I'll try to spend tomorrow doing that.
Ok Grape is probably fine right now
I agree with the bolded in a way (since this does tend to come from wolves more often than town, but its not concrete)
its basically a version of read I've seen from GH, "Why are you pushing me for something others have done"
its very dismissive in a way
still not interested in Jackrito given my time playing with him
Jack's push tunnel on Umami is NAI overall since I think either alignment Jack would handle Umami the same way
@Grape
uhhm I feel like I am explaining this every time me and Jack are in the same game
but like I think the Jack is always a bad lynch day 1, given his playstyle
We can get a better read on the slot as the days go on
What about his playstyle makes it bad? You get more information about everyone as the game goes on, I find it hard to believe that there is something special about Jack that makes it extra true for him.
@Jackrito what in particular struck you as pure on the skim and what exactly about it changed in context?
@Grape
uhhm I feel like I am explaining this every time me and Jack are in the same game
but like I think the Jack is always a bad lynch day 1, given his playstyle
We can get a better read on the slot as the days go on
What about his playstyle makes it bad? You get more information about everyone as the game goes on, I find it hard to believe that there is something special about Jack that makes it extra true for him.
@Jackrito what in particular struck you as pure on the skim and what exactly about it changed in context?
jack is going to push what he wants, and hedge on a lot of things
I mean he's good at making ***** up as mafia, but I'm not going to assume he is being malicious on day 1 over just giving his thoughts
Like me he tends to just say what he wants so it can be questionable, but ya I'm not interested in this
I would only vote this if he was the top train to prevent a no Lynch
@Grape
uhhm I feel like I am explaining this every time me and Jack are in the same game
but like I think the Jack is always a bad lynch day 1, given his playstyle
We can get a better read on the slot as the days go on
What about his playstyle makes it bad? You get more information about everyone as the game goes on, I find it hard to believe that there is something special about Jack that makes it extra true for him.
@Jackrito what in particular struck you as pure on the skim and what exactly about it changed in context?
what I saw as pure was the way that he listed his thoughts on people, mainly the points on ZDS, also thier intiail view on Umani and Wisp and how it changed. It just felt like on skim read like someone just saying what came into their head and not calculated, on reread they just did not make much sense and felt more fake then real. His vote on shadow felt so weak and his townread on me and looking seeing as ZDS as scum in prison just felt so wrong to me. I detailed this in my read. i still need to look at his most recent post though.
“Your younger brother won’t be in any danger, will he?”
“Danger?”
Batra’s impersonated face configured a weak smile. “It has been my understanding that, like wicked stepmothers, ambitious regents do not usually come out well from such contexts. Perhaps that is only in tales.”
“No,” Anaplian said with what sounded like relief. She wiped her eyes. “Tyl Loesp’s been my father’s best friend since they were children. He’s always been loyal, fastened his ambitions to my father’s. God knows, they were grand enough for two. Grand enough for a host.” Anaplian looked away to one side, where the bright, tropic air of this place that she had almost come to think of as home over the last two years now seemed as far away as it had when she’d first arrived. “Though what do I know? It’s been fifteen years.”
Hate that.
What's the VC @Silver?
Last (2): shadow, Tubba
Tubba (2): Vaimes, Umami
Jack (2): grape, tom
Umami (1): Jack
Axel (1): last
Not Voting (3): sloth, ITF, axel
He asked rapid-fire, trying to delay reading 15 pages as long as possible.
Im not, but #691
I'm not swayed one way or another by ITF's matter-of-fact explanations, they say nothing about his intent. I was expecting something like this to happen regardless of his alignment (because it often does, with any player) and I expect the wagon-analysis to be a lot more telling.
ITF,
1) Why did you go from "I like that ZDS is scumhunting and am not interested in lynching him today." (#270) to "I think ZDS is town because he is reevaluating his reads. " (#274)? They aren't the same at all.
2) Why not mention the meta basis behind 274 until after you've been pushed, and why not actually explain it until after you've been pushed some more?
3) Why single me out? I understand why you would townclear Whispy and Umami, they are/were controversial figures, but that wasn't the case for me at all. And it's not like you've been liberally throwing town reads all over the place, aside from me (and to a degree your vote on shadow) you have only expressed opinions on a very limited number of then-controversial figures.
---
1) Why?
2) Any thoughts on #634?
I'm surprised Axel was so easily swayed by ITF's mostly NAI defense. Like Whispy said, it's "partnery". That means if ITF flips scum, it makes Axelrod look worse. I don't understand how Whispy can simultaneously like ITF better and Axelrod worse in light of Axel's unvote.
ITF for sounding fake. You can ISO them, not too many posts there.
@ITF: I remember Winterfell I counterclaimed Arianrhod D1 because he claimed my role, you got lynched D2 after being copped and I rode to victory on that counterclaim.
I remember KillJoy correctly guessed my role (message-sending godfather with a 1-shot Ninja) and I asked him if he really thought that could be a role to get him off my back. Good times
what do you think of ITF's wall
@ZDS
I don't think it matters, ITF's train is still up
I really don't like Axel's play here
his aggression and someone lazy style of play doesn't feel like a town trying to understand the game
I also still don't really like his vote on Grape
both good votes, and if everything stays the same my vote
will end up on ITF to secure a hammer, so that we don't end up in another bad
no lynch situation
like this still pings me as someone making up reads
@ITF
why didnt you claim?
What are your wolf reads?
this isn't a case of explaining it later, its the case of your read changed which doesn't show a natural progression
Why exactly do me/grape/vaimes
get null reads
while m7/Shadow
who are probably the most null players in this game
are lower than us
There's not much in it. A bunch of NAI stuff, and I'm wondering if his ZDS read is real or TMI.
For future reference: ZDS town if ITF flips mafia.
Im not really sure what made me do that. Could probably call both those sections null and im just giving some credit in my head for "playing the game"
Really theres not much difference between the gray group and the tiers on either side. And the whole thing is probably within 10% of =!rand other than maybe umami
So i guess the answer here is some combination of gut and an early feeling that active posters itg are town?
Grape is probably the weird one here. He hasnt played much more than shadow or sloths slot. But he somehow feels just a little better
Im more saying that he isnt higher because of activity like the rest of his group, but because i liked his reentrance from the dlp game with the unami townread.
But again, that was my sorting based on feels im just trying to explain now.
Feel free to remove some tiers and just think of it as 6 towns, 7 shrugs, and 2 scum
I'm struggling to find hints of the second quote in the first one, but there must be something since you are "more saying".
Semantics aside, my issue is with the overexplanation, not with his position in your tier-list (it's not relevant yet) or with the number of tiers (who cares).
I'm not particularly impressed with either post, but I guess I'll compare the cases as I read along.
Still, I specially don't get Axel's case since the way he's outlining it describes a natural progression of thought from ITF...which is, you know, Townie. At the very least it's Not Scum. Perhaps he was just bad at verbalizing it and it'll make sense as I read. So far, not digging the wagon.
Jackrito was my strongest townread last game so I will probably look into how different he is on this one.
Don't really have opinions on some of these people yet, but this actually lines up with my initial impressions, except I would have grape much higher, whisp a little higher, and rhand little lower
What are your reads of the two voting you? Especially Tubba.
Was my slot just generally null before I swapped in? Isn't that nice!
GJ/Rod would also be null/grey category or rod maybe even as yellow
Hi @Umami! Yes, @s to nothing on mtgs, unfortunately. Why the Tubbs?
So maybe it's not that similar after all but decent amount of overlap
#758 talks a bit about it
and I dont have a read on Tubba or Shadow
shadow is more null
Tubba is doing Tubba things? like I will say I could really use that Mason Chat again
not particularly interested in voting either of them as it stands
Seeming really like themselves for me
Thats not a townread that lasts past day 1 but its enough for me rn
The rest of what you point out in #691 is valid, but without examples/quotes I can't really say you're correct, or if you're just interpreting things badly.
However, I admit it's hard to give examples of "all exposition no impact" or "not trying to get lynches."
I like your take on Jack more than Axel's game on ITF, as said, because if what you're saying is accurate regarding Jack's play, it deviates from prison enough that I can see it coming from scum.
All of this boils down to my needing to read the game to get clarity. ...but I'll do that later.
Kingdom Hearts 3 awaits.
I didn’t like Umami’s entrance, seemed aggressive and mud-slingy, then with Last and her rolling around each other’s mouths I thought might be something. Last’s “explanation” is weak, but it seems like all I’m going to get there and no one else wanted to talk about it. Could see one in Last/Umami still.
If ZDS is scum this game, he’s dethroning somebody. Scum would’ve won last game if he showed this much wim earlier. He’s hunting and I’m agreeing with a lot of his thoughts. After my horrendous reads last game (hi KJ!), I’m probably gonna sheep Z, except ITF shouldn’t be dinkable this easily. Rhand mentioned that L-2 this early Day one is unusual and I agree.
Rhand has made some questionable statements. I didn’t like how he said he thought KJ rolled scum, begged off pushing or questioning there, and voted Axel after saying he didn’t have any scum reads. Unless it’s wine I think scumRhand doesn’t mess that up?
Tom is fine. I’m always worried back of my mind that this is the game he uses his “infallibility” to mislynch me, but I jived with his “Rod Brain TransferenceTM” and his thread presence doesn’t look like someone trying to steer the game.
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that down.
I don’t play like Tom, or Shadow, or Rodemy, or Last, or Johnny, or Rhand.
And that’s fine. I don’t care if you can’t read me as town, I’m looking for scum. If I see something that pings me, I’ll bring it up but I’m not going to clog the thread with musings that don’t mean anything. This is especially noticeable day one when there’s no information to work with. I’d rather be right than admired, sure than celebrated and I’m never comfortable putting more of myself on the table than required. I was so wrong last game, that I’m sitting on my hands more than usual and more than I should. But it’d be a mistake to assume that means I’m not playing, that I’m not watching the game and hunting for potential scum.
This is becoming a ramble.
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
That’s more concisely where I’m at fwiw.
Most of the kinda sus is people I’m wanting to see more of, ITF would probably be lower if it didn’t seem so easy.
Ok boomer
Who are u referring to when you state, "assuming I'm not playing"
Also you're wrong on me, and possibly wrong on Umami, idk yet honestly
He has the potential of becoming awesome at this game, but the lack of rolling mafia (apart from a micro) impacts his town game and that’s sad.
Also @tubba: since when are you posting early reads lists? Feels very un-you.
So this stuck out to me. Well the whole section on ITF feels not great but the wondering why someone else didn't get pushed for the same thing is something I see more from scum than town. Especially in this case where Tom's case was much more about the Umami "tunnel" than it was ITF (ITF caught my eye but it was more about Umami and ZDS).
What's more interesting about this though is that it's this big case about how his mind changed on ITF after reading his posts in isolation, but finds issues with pretty much everything that ITF has done. Which is a huge depature from calling ITF super pure. There is no sign of progression or even hints at what Jack liked originally. Now townies do tend to 180 their reads more than scum (a lesson I'm trying to remember) but usually that's in response to a specific post or read. This is just a complete changing of his mind after a reread when there was no new content.
Thanks for the answer. A couple things, one Sloth died before Rhand (barely, and Rhand had flipped town already thanks to a desperado). That said his coming in with fully formed reads is a lot more indicative of his being a replacement there than his alignment. I also think you're underestimating his case on Sloth (which was large).
@Wisp why isn't Jack a D1 option?
Hi Sloth!
I’m just tired of the “hur-dur lol Tubba is scummy all the time” it’s annoying. I know I’m not good yet, but there is room in the universe for my playstyle. That said I’d be a fool to not try and adapt and work with others a little more clearly. That’s barely a readslist anyways, but if it helps others to get some thoughts out of me, I need to put it out there even if it’s wrong/dumb.
Not a fan of ITF promising a claim after catching up and not delivering, but it's probably not AI on it's own. I have them at possible scum but less likely than Jack.
Grape
Umami
Rhand/LW
Mush
Vaimes/ITF
Jack
I could maybe bump GJ, tom, and ZDS up out of mush but I don't feel that confident about about them. Just vaguely townie in a generic way.
The change in view is what happens when i have time to read properly instead of skim reading at work. If you can seriously tell me that your view does not change from casual reading in mafia compared to being more serious. We are clearly very different which is fine. On my Wisp thing I'm calling it out because it is biased viewing at the end of the day, that is being used aganist me so I will take issue with it. I don't care if it makes me scummy.
I have already explained myself on ZDS my stance is not changeing there and nor should it for now. Once we have flips and I can review them yeah sure I worry about it more, I can't go around doubting people off the bat every game off one bad exp. I still don't see the issue with my Umani approuch, just because you all disagree does not make me scum. Guess I look at Tom's points on it again.
Talk to me about Vaimes, KJ, Axel, and me. What do you like dislike and like about those 4?
My reads do change from reading the game more closely but usually not from "pure" to not pointing to a single positive point. It's especially glaring given your reputation for hedging.
As for Umami it's not the disagreement it's that even before Umami became near universally town read you weren't really doing anything with your supposed tunnel. And you even described it as a parked vote.
Well me and Wisp liked ITF at the time so this first point is wrong. Also they is not always coordination some scum just let each other play their own game and see what happens.
I agree on Umani a degree but less so on Wisp.
I agree with your ZDS read so have fun getting scum read for it by other people lol.
The last part of this makes me townread you a bit more, this feels like honesty rather then trying to manipulate others in my view.
Explain to me some of these reads though why is rod in your town pile and also why am I in the scum side since you seem to be on the same page as me on a couple of things, I find this a odd take. Also why is grape so low as well unless you said it elsewhere the rest of them you had some mention of.
First point is fair I guess but happened.
On the second this baffles me a bit, partly because I was busy so did not have time to do much and even if I did what more would you like me to do with Umani I did a review for my read list and still feel the same way. ZDS summed it up a lot better then I ever could before and its not like in prison I was doing giant pushes on others the expectations here feel a bit unrealistic. I did my vote and gave my reasons I'm not the type to force my view on others espically on day one.
kek
@Grape
uhhm I feel like I am explaining this every time me and Jack are in the same game
but like I think the Jack is always a bad lynch day 1, given his playstyle
We can get a better read on the slot as the days go on
I think Rhand questioning you for actually giving content just doesnt leave you any room to actually do work? if that makes sense
because if you do Tubba stuff, people will say you look bad, and if you make reads its weird because you barely do it? as he says
I agree with the bolded in a way (since this does tend to come from wolves more often than town, but its not concrete)
its basically a version of read I've seen from GH, "Why are you pushing me for something others have done"
its very dismissive in a way
still not interested in Jackrito given my time playing with him
Jack's push tunnel on Umami is NAI overall since I think either alignment Jack would handle Umami the same way
What about his playstyle makes it bad? You get more information about everyone as the game goes on, I find it hard to believe that there is something special about Jack that makes it extra true for him.
@Jackrito what in particular struck you as pure on the skim and what exactly about it changed in context?
I'll say that FF7 and other stuff has made me take more of a 3rd party approach to this game so far
We probably need to decide on a Lynch soon, I really do not want to see a no lynch
I mean he's good at making ***** up as mafia, but I'm not going to assume he is being malicious on day 1 over just giving his thoughts
Like me he tends to just say what he wants so it can be questionable, but ya I'm not interested in this
I would only vote this if he was the top train to prevent a no Lynch
I will evaluate him day 2
what I saw as pure was the way that he listed his thoughts on people, mainly the points on ZDS, also thier intiail view on Umani and Wisp and how it changed. It just felt like on skim read like someone just saying what came into their head and not calculated, on reread they just did not make much sense and felt more fake then real. His vote on shadow felt so weak and his townread on me and looking seeing as ZDS as scum in prison just felt so wrong to me. I detailed this in my read. i still need to look at his most recent post though.
[/i]
“Danger?”
Batra’s impersonated face configured a weak smile. “It has been my understanding that, like wicked stepmothers, ambitious regents do not usually come out well from such contexts. Perhaps that is only in tales.”
“No,” Anaplian said with what sounded like relief. She wiped her eyes. “Tyl Loesp’s been my father’s best friend since they were children. He’s always been loyal, fastened his ambitions to my father’s. God knows, they were grand enough for two. Grand enough for a host.” Anaplian looked away to one side, where the bright, tropic air of this place that she had almost come to think of as home over the last two years now seemed as far away as it had when she’d first arrived. “Though what do I know? It’s been fifteen years.”
Lastwhisper - 2 (shadowlancerx, Tubba Fett)
Tubba Fett - 2 (Vaimes, Umami)
Jackrito - 2 (Grapefruit21, tomsloger)
Umami - 1 (Jackrito)
Axelrod - 1 (Lastwhisper)
Not Voting - 3 (M plus 7, ITF, Axelrod)
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to achieve a majority. Day 1 ends at 11:59:59 PM EDT on 22 April 2020.
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.2
Vote Count 1.3
Vote Count 1.4
Vote Count 1.5
Vote Count 1.6
Vote Count 1.7
If your vote is uncounted and I didn't say why, please PM me or DM me on Discord so I can investigate.