Sloth that is such a clown thing to say. "Vaimes is scum pretending he doesn't remember what missions he was on!" Like honestly, stop stepping all over me with your giant clown shoes.
If KJ is a spy, this means adding me to that mission isn’t enough to fail it.
Which means there is indeed exactly 1 spy in Umami/Vaimes/Sloth, which leaves 1 in GJ/Shadow.
If KJ is a rebel, then I don’t understand why he wouldn’t add me. It’s the 3rd try. As rebel he would want to propose something that would actually get accepted.
Assuming I’m right, that leaves as teams:
KJ/Umami/Shadow
KJ/Umami/GJ (with the mission 3 issue of 2 possible fails. Unlikely)
KJ/Vaimes/GJ
KJ/Sloth/GJ
because we know that mission 2 likely only had one spy, plus be is still only one spy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Woa shadow why so fast?
And why not mission 2 + me?
I’ve been saying this for a while, this is the grouping that I think goes the distance. I need to get off my butt and dig between Vaimes and sloth before sending mission 5 off, but I thing I come back to this. And when it’s do or die, I’m not sending a mission that doesn’t include me. I think it still passes, but that’s not the point.
Shadow's proposal makes no sense to me as well from either the chosen or the speed. Probably going to decline it because of the speed, because I trust Sloth slightly more now, and sloth is only a spy with exactly shadow and Rhand.
Shadow's proposal makes no sense to me as well from either the chosen or the speed. Probably going to decline it because of the speed, because I trust Sloth slightly more now, and sloth is only a spy with exactly shadow and Rhand.
not impossible I suppose.
Why? I chose a three man team with only one spy plus me to make sure there was still only one spy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Shadow's proposal makes no sense to me as well from either the chosen or the speed. Probably going to decline it because of the speed, because I trust Sloth slightly more now, and sloth is only a spy with exactly shadow and Rhand.
not impossible I suppose.
Why? I chose a three man team with only one spy plus me to make sure there was still only one spy.
All you are doing is kicking the can down the street for one day. You also win on the spot if you are a spy. The fact that two people yessed that with at least 1 game confirmed spy in the mix settles that for me.
Hey guys, really sorry I didn’t get my vote in. For the record, I would have voted no.
Tell me why?
What do you mean? I've clearly said that the only person I feel sure is a good guy is Rhand so I'm never going to approve a 4 person mission without him on it. Shadow told me the mission he was planning on proposing before I voted on Rhand's mission and I clearly said I was waiting for that one...
@Sloth/GJ/Vaimes: what do you think about both KJ and Shadow not going for the mission 2 + me fix for this mission?
Hey, just to interject, I said from the get go that it wasn’t my preference, and exactly the mission I was going rob propose here, I’m not hiding the ball, that’s where I’m at and I’m sticking with it.
I would like both Sloth and Vaimes to go into why they approved that mission.
@Sloth/GJ/Vaimes: what do you think about both KJ and Shadow not going for the mission 2 + me fix for this mission?
at least KJ did Mission 2 + himself.
He didn't go for you for ~reasons, but in a world where he is town, it does make sense he'd want to be in a grouping that also probably only has 1 scum for an easy win. It's an acceptable trade, though not sure why he thought it'd go through. Even while voting yes, I doubted it would.
Shadow on the other hand, I have no idea why he risks the situation he does here. He has at least one guaranteed scum in that group, and I definitely do not think he's town for reasons that I'm just so very tired of repeating oh my god...
He says he has to "get off [his] butt and dig between Vaimes and sloth" before the final mission but sends Vaimes on this one still?
I would like both Sloth and Vaimes to go into why they approved that mission.
Ultimately I decided to bet the game on what I thought was the right call, and that fell back into a GJ/Umami/you team.
I have been ******* waffling on KJ something fierce based on the points Rhand's brought up, and the results for 4.2 and 4.3 - Why does the entire scumteam (or the entire scumteam except KJ) vote down 4.2?
That votespread on 4.3 is also interesting and it almost looks like a reverse 4.1.
The thing is though, there's just a perfectly sensible reason for why everyone voted as they did on 4.2 - so maybe discard that spread? Ugh.
In a scum!KJ world:
Why reject proposal 2.1 and 2.2, which had the same team including 1 scum?
He explains it in #175, but it's a bad explanation and may point to some TMI on...Vaimes? Umami? Specifically excluding her here is...something? Goddamnit.
...actually, going by early interactions, I don't think KJ and Vaimes are aligned - given that argument at the start of the game with Vaimes over Waiting for GodotShadow.
More on that are posts like #74, #76, and #79 seem to show a focus that isn't aligned.
Add that to #175, if KJ is spy, he's not spy with Vaimes - so it'd have to be KJ/Umami/{Shadow/GJ} @Rhand thoughts? Though I assume you're sticking with KJ/Umami/Shadow or did the new vote change anything?
In a scum!KJ world, with any of Vaimes/Umami/Rhand: Why the hell didn't the game end at 4.1? That still makes no sense.
@Rhand talk to me about your #631, because it bothers me: You say "Why not accept [4.1]? fear of getting caught on a mission you should reject" in regards to scum!Shadow not voting to pass 4.1 - why doesn't this also apply to a scum!GJ? You don't seem to be considering him at all?
Also, if the mission passed, it was game over. What worry is there of being caught?
That both Vaimes and Sloth approved this mission with KJ means that KJ has to be bad
Why did I decline it?
That’s a good point. If Vaimes was scum, you would know that sloth had a decent chance of approving the mission given his massive support of KJ and might risk it even though you knew I was waiting for shadow’s proposal. But with scum sloth, you only knew that he and KJ would approve and didn’t want to risk it if you felt uncertain of Vaimes’ vote and knew I wasn't approving
Still totally illogical for Vaimes' to approve that as a good guy unless for some reason he's 100% sure that KJ is good but haven't gotten that impression from him
That both Vaimes and Sloth approved this mission with KJ means that KJ has to be bad
Why did I decline it?
That’s a good point. If Vaimes was scum, you would know that sloth had a decent chance of approving the mission given his massive support of KJ and might risk it even though you knew I was waiting for shadow’s proposal. But with scum sloth, you only knew that he and KJ would approve and didn’t want to risk it if you felt uncertain of Vaimes’ vote and knew I wasn't approving
Still totally illogical for Vaimes' to approve that as a good guy unless for some reason he's 100% sure that KJ is good but haven't gotten that impression from him
That would mean Rhand is the bad guy from 3, and you wont jive with that.
I am extending voting because roughly half the game hasn't voted yet. I will move before the following deadline if I receive all votes, but everyone has another 11.5 hours to vote and or change your votes.
I don't know if all of these rejected missions will help a ton with worldbuilding, but I think that if there were two spies on any of those missions, they would've gone through? Unless they're paranoid about being exposed as a voting block.
It is now Sloth's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours. His proposal will automatically accepted.
Scum in {Vaimes/Umami}
Scum in {GJ/Umami/Rhand}
I don't understand this game. All scum had to do to win in any of:
Vaimes' {KJ/Rhand/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum
Rhand's {Rhand/Shadow/Sloth/Umami}< (note: only KJ voted yes here)
KJ's {KJ/Sloth/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum (note: potentially scum!Umami did not vote)
Shadow's {Rhand/Shadow/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum
...was vote to accept. Is it even possible for there to not be 2 scum in any of these combinations? Why vote to reject??
I think Rhand has to be town because of his vote 4.1, I don't understand why he'd do otherwise as scum and I will be seriously a little mad at him if it ends up that he did...so he and I are town as far as I'm concerned. Leaving GJ, KJ, Shadow, and one of {Umami/Vaimes} (< is there a chance they're both scum? That can't make sense, right?)
Both KJ and Vaimes had each other + Umami in their groups. Earlier I was talking about their interactions making them unlikely to be aligned as spies, but perhaps that was too premature...however, a world with KJ and Vaimes as scum only makes sense if GJ is also scum (mission 3).
So why the **** would he vote no on 4.1 and 4.3? Answer is he wouldn't. Both missions only needed one vote to pass.
KJ/Vaimes/GJ cannot be a thing.
Same issue with KJ/Umami/GJ, unless anyone foresaw Umami not voting 4.3 due to her lack of response, but what about 4.1? Either ******* way, one vote away from victory.
@Rhand seriously, I don't see how KJ can be scum. I'm trying but how does this make sense? Twice??? Talk to me.
If KJ is town, then any group with any two of {KJ/Rhand/me} and both Vaimes+Umami only has 1 scum, so the scumteam voting it down makes sense. Leaving GJ, Shadow, and one of {Umami/Vaimes}
Here we ******* go again.
GJ/Shadow/Vaimes vs GJ/Shadow/Umami
Is scum!GJ's strategy here just to vote no by default??? Did he take over Umami after she started voting yes on everything? The hell.
I still don't see why scum!vaimes doesn't choose another scummate on his mission, and if he did, why wasn't it approved?
But how can Umami/GJ be scum together given Mission 3? (yes, I know this is a big hole in my theory I was willing to overlook it until I got more info but guess what, I have NO more info.)
@KJ why exactly did you vote yes on 4.2? @Vaimes who are the two scum you were referring to on 4.2? Why are you town? @Umami why are you town?
In 24 hours, I'll probably do Mission 2 + Rhand, unless I'm given a very good reason to go somewhere else.
But I want mission 5 to be slotted into place before I do. After me is Umami, who might very well be scum, followed by GJ, who pretty much has to be?
Let's do this.
your emotional shady response is noted though.
And the other stuff I asked?
This is the proposal. You all know the drill. You have 12 hours to vote since you've already had the better part ofa day.
Apologies for the delay and lack of formatting.
Meh alright
The GJ way path to no lynching:
KJ has nominated: KJ, Sloth, Umami, and Vaimes.
Yes: KJ, Sloth, Vaimes
No: GJ, Rhand, Shadow
Not voting and will be prodded: Umami
The mission has been rejected.
It is now Shadow's turn to nominate. He has 48 hours.
I apologize again for all the delay from my end. I will endeavor to not have another wait due to my negligence.
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StaffNot really much else I can say at this point.
You have 20 hours to vote (until my morning tomorrow).
And why not mission 2 + me?
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StaffThis locks it as KJ for spy, imo.
Shadow's proposal makes no sense to me as well from either the chosen or the speed. Probably going to decline it because of the speed, because I trust Sloth slightly more now, and sloth is only a spy with exactly shadow and Rhand.
not impossible I suppose.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
All you are doing is kicking the can down the street for one day. You also win on the spot if you are a spy. The fact that two people yessed that with at least 1 game confirmed spy in the mix settles that for me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Tell me why?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What do you mean? I've clearly said that the only person I feel sure is a good guy is Rhand so I'm never going to approve a 4 person mission without him on it. Shadow told me the mission he was planning on proposing before I voted on Rhand's mission and I clearly said I was waiting for that one...
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StaffI would like both Sloth and Vaimes to go into why they approved that mission.
He didn't go for you for ~reasons, but in a world where he is town, it does make sense he'd want to be in a grouping that also probably only has 1 scum for an easy win. It's an acceptable trade, though not sure why he thought it'd go through. Even while voting yes, I doubted it would.
Shadow on the other hand, I have no idea why he risks the situation he does here. He has at least one guaranteed scum in that group, and I definitely do not think he's town for reasons that I'm just so very tired of repeating oh my god...
He says he has to "get off [his] butt and dig between Vaimes and sloth" before the final mission but sends Vaimes on this one still?
Part of me wants to test this once and for all.
Ultimately I decided to bet the game on what I thought was the right call, and that fell back into a GJ/Umami/you team.
I have been ******* waffling on KJ something fierce based on the points Rhand's brought up, and the results for 4.2 and 4.3 - Why does the entire scumteam (or the entire scumteam except KJ) vote down 4.2?
That votespread on 4.3 is also interesting and it almost looks like a reverse 4.1.
The thing is though, there's just a perfectly sensible reason for why everyone voted as they did on 4.2 - so maybe discard that spread? Ugh.
Why reject proposal 2.1 and 2.2, which had the same team including 1 scum?
He explains it in #175, but it's a bad explanation and may point to some TMI on...Vaimes? Umami? Specifically excluding her here is...something? Goddamnit.
GodotShadow.More on that are posts like #74, #76, and #79 seem to show a focus that isn't aligned.
Add that to #175, if KJ is spy, he's not spy with Vaimes - so it'd have to be KJ/Umami/{Shadow/GJ} @Rhand thoughts? Though I assume you're sticking with KJ/Umami/Shadow or did the new vote change anything?
In a scum!KJ world, with any of Vaimes/Umami/Rhand: Why the hell didn't the game end at 4.1? That still makes no sense.
@Rhand talk to me about your #631, because it bothers me: You say "Why not accept [4.1]? fear of getting caught on a mission you should reject" in regards to scum!Shadow not voting to pass 4.1 - why doesn't this also apply to a scum!GJ? You don't seem to be considering him at all?
Also, if the mission passed, it was game over. What worry is there of being caught?
Why did I decline it?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But that means I can't be a bad guy? Otherwise, why don't I just yes this with my wolf buddy from mission 2 + KJ?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
lol
That’s a good point. If Vaimes was scum, you would know that sloth had a decent chance of approving the mission given his massive support of KJ and might risk it even though you knew I was waiting for shadow’s proposal. But with scum sloth, you only knew that he and KJ would approve and didn’t want to risk it if you felt uncertain of Vaimes’ vote and knew I wasn't approving
Still totally illogical for Vaimes' to approve that as a good guy unless for some reason he's 100% sure that KJ is good but haven't gotten that impression from him
That would mean Rhand is the bad guy from 3, and you wont jive with that.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Shadow has nominated: Rhand, shadow, Umami, and Vaimes.
Yes: Shadow, Umami, Vaimes
No: GJ, KJ, Rhand, Sloth
The mission has been rejected.
It is now Sloth's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours. His proposal will automatically accepted.
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StaffWell, I really hope I was wrong on Sloth, cause we lose otherwise.
Sloth, since its over if not, you town?
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StaffI literally said what my nomination was going to be days ago.
Welp, I hope Sloth wasn't the spy from mission 2.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
gg Umami
Not hardly. I would have just accepted last mission if it was
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Scum in {GJ/Umami
/Rhand}I don't understand this game. All scum had to do to win in any of:
- Vaimes' {KJ/Rhand/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum
- Rhand's {Rhand/Shadow/Sloth/Umami} < (note: only KJ voted yes here)
- KJ's {KJ/Sloth/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum (note: potentially scum!Umami did not vote)
- Shadow's {Rhand/Shadow/Umami/Vaimes} < 1 scum at a minimum
...was vote to accept. Is it even possible for there to not be 2 scum in any of these combinations? Why vote to reject??I think Rhand has to be town because of his vote 4.1, I don't understand why he'd do otherwise as scum and I will be seriously a little mad at him if it ends up that he did...so he and I are town as far as I'm concerned.
Leaving GJ, KJ, Shadow, and one of {Umami/Vaimes} (< is there a chance they're both scum? That can't make sense, right?)
Both KJ and Vaimes had each other + Umami in their groups. Earlier I was talking about their interactions making them unlikely to be aligned as spies, but perhaps that was too premature...however, a world with KJ and Vaimes as scum only makes sense if GJ is also scum (mission 3).
So why the **** would he vote no on 4.1 and 4.3? Answer is he wouldn't. Both missions only needed one vote to pass.
KJ/Vaimes/GJ cannot be a thing.
Same issue with KJ/Umami/GJ, unless anyone foresaw Umami not voting 4.3 due to her lack of response, but what about 4.1? Either ******* way, one vote away from victory.
@Rhand seriously, I don't see how KJ can be scum. I'm trying but how does this make sense? Twice??? Talk to me.
If KJ is town, then any group with any two of {KJ/Rhand/me} and both Vaimes+Umami only has 1 scum, so the scumteam voting it down makes sense.
Leaving GJ, Shadow, and one of {Umami/Vaimes}
Here we ******* go again.
GJ/Shadow/Vaimes vs GJ/Shadow/Umami
Is scum!GJ's strategy here just to vote no by default??? Did he take over Umami after she started voting yes on everything? The hell.
I still don't see why scum!vaimes doesn't choose another scummate on his mission, and if he did, why wasn't it approved?
But how can Umami/GJ be scum together given Mission 3? (yes, I know this is a big hole in my theory I was willing to overlook it until I got more info but guess what, I have NO more info.)
@KJ why exactly did you vote yes on 4.2?
@Vaimes who are the two scum you were referring to on 4.2? Why are you town?
@Umami why are you town?
In 24 hours, I'll probably do Mission 2 + Rhand, unless I'm given a very good reason to go somewhere else.
But I want mission 5 to be slotted into place before I do. After me is Umami, who might very well be scum, followed by GJ, who pretty much has to be?
Let's do this.
I’ll answer the other one in a second, walking home.
Not particularly. I find it incredibly difficult to read people when everyonme has the same motivation.
Also, I can't actually take a post of yours seriously as long as you continue to wolf read me along side Umani. :foldsarms:
The GJ way path to no lynching: