@Rhand, GJ: Why did you vote the way you did for that mission? I feel like you two are the least vocal if the game, and I wanna hear from you guys.
Um. Wait, talk to me: How are you defining "least vocal"?
In what way is Rhand not making his obviously wrong opinions not starkly clear and, well, vocal?
Town doesn’t write things like that.
Sloth is 100% a spy.
Most of you have already voted but I will give 10 hours for anyone to change their vote. I will be requiring pass/fail with votes going forward in the interest of speeding the game up.
@Rhand, GJ: Why did you vote the way you did for that mission? I feel like you two are the least vocal if the game, and I wanna hear from you guys.
Um. Wait, talk to me: How are you defining "least vocal"?
In what way is Rhand not making his obviously wrong opinions not starkly clear and, well, vocal?
Town doesn’t write things like that.
Sloth is 100% a spy.
Honestly, this one comment further cements just how much you are
obviously wrong
Seriously though, literally one day ago you were pointing out how you didn't have nearly enough info to know my game, and now you think you do enough to make comments like this?
I'm not just town. I'm town!sloth, and I do what I want.
Rhand there are no flips this game, which is the only thing that would satisfy town!you about me. In that case, you have to work with me and at least entertain otherworlds. Answer 347 and 340.
Seriously though, literally one GAME ago* you were pointing out how you didn't have nearly enough info to know my game, and now you think you do enough to make comments like this?
@Rhand: Why does Umami/Vaimes believing your town mean anything here?
Because I don’t want to lose the game to GJ failing and then them distrusting me.
Why would you think this matter? Shadow and Vaimes (and maybe Umami? interesting hard to tell by her ISO) had me as town and the mission failure was enough to turn those reads around apparently. Why would you be differently?
Also, if you're town, I need you to ******* see me as town already, this is getting in the way way too ******* much.
Say you get mod-confirmation that I'm town, between Vaimes/Umami, who would you say is scum and why? This is one question.
An entirely separate question that should have its own answer is what I asked in #340.
That first part is why I keep doubting. I’m not 100% sure on GJ and don’t want to be the reason we lose afterwards. I want Vaimes and Umami to be aware of the possible consequences of letting this mission happen.
Vaimes in a town!you world. But I’m willing to bet the game on you being mafia so
Step 1: Player A votes No towards a proposal THAT PLAYER A IS PART OF.
Step 2: Proposal passes regardless.
Step 3: The mission is failed by 1 vote.
I'm trying to mull this over - what is your read on Player A in this scenario, and is it valid or just a kneejerk reaction?
Almost done catching up, gotta walk my dog.
Ugh, wrote that in a rush, so fixed that.
Probably a rebel that correctly guessed that one of the other two is a spy.
If A is a spy then both his buddies must have voiced that they’re going to accept the proposal.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Vaimes: You've said that you think the person who failed the mission was not Umami. Therefore the options remaining are you and Sloth. I think Sloth is also townreading Umami, and therefore believes the same. Obviously from your perspectives, it's not yourselves, so it's the other. Hence my wording.
@Umami: Well, I don't think GJ is a spy because of how not pushy he's being of any agenda. In this game more than mafia, you need to try to manipulate teams to not lose. For that reason as well, I think there's only one Spy on the last mission (Umami/Vaimes/Sloth). It was proposed twice, and two spies on that mission has a high chance of tipping the spies hand there. Contrary to GJ, Rhand keeps trying to call people spies a bunch and smearing people. He's done it to me, to Sloth. I think looking at 176, he might be with Vaimes perhaps, but Vaimes' play hasn't specifically led me to spy!Vaimes read. That leaves Shadow as PoE (I recall you having a townread on him, talk more on that for me.)
I kinda want a mission 3 to be Vaimes/Rhand/Shadow and see how that goes. I think there's a decent chance there's two spies there.
TLDR specifically, I have a town read on you, and GJ, and a one scum on mission 2 read. I also think that Rhand/Sloth probably aren't spies together. The rest is mostly just conjecture since most behavioral reads are not very telling here.
@Rhand: TBF, we don't know there's only one scum in [Umami,Vaimes,Sloth], but it's a strong and very valid assumption. What's up with your progression on me though? In 299 I'm scum again? I hadn't posted in a while before that.
@GJ: I'm inclined to believe we really should shoot for two fails on this mission, so we guarantee a pass on mission 4 and make mission 5 a likely pass/have a lot of info for that to happen, but you do make a good point that if we pass this, then passing 4 is pretty likely also. But I do think this fails. I don't trust Rhand here. I'm gonna reject on that premise, but if we propose one that is likely all town I'd be willing to approve that.
What you’re proposing here is to have Vaimes (a possible scum in your text), me and Shadow (who you seem to think are both scum) on a mission to get what you think will create 2 fails.
If that happens, spies only need one more mission fail, meaning we will play mission 5.
Mission 5 needs to have all town members on it to win.
Not putting a sure town (yourself or someone you’re actually townreading) on this one doesn’t solve me/Vaimes/Shadow for you unless there’s 3 fails (what you are not expecting).
Result: mission 4 will go all pass or is a spy win (a single spy won’t fail that) and in mission 5 you don’t know who to send.
You are NOT solving the game. You are only trying to sow distrust in a town that is finding each other.
It seems to me you're just discounting the benefit of a multiple fail mission.
That mission I'm proposing is supposed to have all three Spies on it. You/Vaimes/Shadow are my three most likely spies.
Yes it sets up the need to play to the final mission, bit it also provides maximum info to solve the game with.
If there are two fails this mission, we can't fail mission four. So it's down to mission 5.
But then we KNOW a group with 2 spies. Then there's only one in the other four. We send three of the one spy group and send the three towniest and we win
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Okay, so it's' pretty clear based on #340/#341 and then the posts that followed that sloth chose me as a target and read back after to cherry pick posts
Yep!
That very same game where you claimed "We only played in 1 (not ongoing) game together, and you replaced out of it very quickly. So I have only notions of how you play."
Since, we've had Prison and this other game. So that kinda strengthens my point?
That first part is why I keep doubting. I’m not 100% sure on GJ and don’t want to be the reason we lose afterwards. I want Vaimes and Umami to be aware of the possible consequences of letting this mission happen.
Vaimes in a town!you world. But I’m willing to bet the game on you being mafia so
Hm...as an aside, what is your meta as far as tunnelling (anyone can pitch in here): Do you tunnel this hard regardless of alignment? "Willing to bet the game" on me is unexpectedly strong.
On topic though: Why Vaimes over Umami? What is your townread on Umami solidly based on?
Step 1: Player A votes No towards a proposal THAT PLAYER A IS PART OF.
Step 2: Proposal passes regardless.
Step 3: The mission is failed by 1 vote.
I'm trying to mull this over - what is your read on Player A in this scenario, and is it valid or just a kneejerk reaction?
Almost done catching up, gotta walk my dog.
Ugh, wrote that in a rush, so fixed that.
(1)Probably a rebel that correctly guessed that one of the other two is a spy. (2)If A is a spy then both his buddies must have voiced that they’re going to accept the proposal.
What’s the point of this question?
The point is exactly the responses you've given. I'm...not too sure when I started townreading Umami, but I think it's just based on gut rather than actual reasons to, so I'm investigating and getting others to ask themselves the same question.
For 1, we know that this is definitely not the case because Umami has referred to that grouping as her 'ideal' one, and her posts seem to support that.
For 2, interesting. That might point a possible shadow/umami/GJ world. Not placing too much stock in it, I actually think GJ is probably rebel and your omitting the fact that she would really only need one of her scummates voting yes, not two. but it gives me something to think about which is exactly the point of this. Of course if you're spy...The wine.
I do think going with the same grouping on my say so and changing your vote to yes only for that group to fail is....not a good look.
Okay, so it's' pretty clear based on #340/#341 and then the posts that followed that sloth chose me as a target and read back after to cherry pick posts
It seems to me you're just discounting the benefit of a multiple fail mission.
That mission I'm proposing is supposed to have all three Spies on it. You/Vaimes/Shadow are my three most likely spies.
Yes it sets up the need to play to the final mission, bit it also provides maximum info to solve the game with.
If there are two fails this mission, we can't fail mission four. So it's down to mission 5.
But then we KNOW a group with 2 spies. Then there's only one in the other four. We send three of the one spy group and send the three towniest and we win
...The basis of this plan is not horrible, but now that it's written out we'd have to look for in-thread hidden communication for signals to scummates.
This is disregarding the composition of the proposal itself, which...maybe not.
@Rhand, GJ: Why did you vote the way you did for that mission? I feel like you two are the least vocal if the game, and I wanna hear from you guys.
Um. Wait, talk to me: How are you defining "least vocal"?
In what way is Rhand not making his obviously wrong opinions not starkly clear and, well, vocal?
Rhand is pretty vocal, but his reads keep changing.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
[b]@Umami:[/b] Well, I don't think GJ is a spy because of how not pushy he's being of any agenda. In this game more than mafia, you need to try to manipulate teams to not lose. For that reason as well, I think there's only one Spy on the last mission (Umami/Vaimes/Sloth). It was proposed twice, and two spies on that mission has a high chance of tipping the spies hand there. Contrary to GJ, Rhand keeps trying to call people spies a bunch and smearing people. He's done it to me, to Sloth. I think looking at 176, he might be with Vaimes perhaps, but Vaimes' play hasn't specifically led me to spy!Vaimes read. That leaves Shadow as PoE (I recall you having a townread on him, talk more on that for me.)
Where do I have a townread on shadow? My lead competing worlds right now are sloth/shadow/GJ vs. vaimes/rhand/GJ or shadow with a lean towards the former, but I'm now thinking I excluded you prematurely as a sloth or vaimes buddy which creates a lot more combinations. I think regardless, if vaimes is bad, I see rhand as a potential buddy especially with the way Rhand has changed his support for teams so he's not on the same mission as Vaimes. Initially, he was like, let's do KJ + 2 of him/me/vaimes, which based on this game would have likely been me + one of them and now he's fine with Vaimes not coming and doing GJ/him/me. I still feel like I think the sloth world is more likely, but I think me/vaimes/rhand would be a win win because either we get a perfect 3 or we force a double fail/awkward communication. I think it's our best shot at a perfect 3
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yep!
That very same game where you claimed "We only played in 1 (not ongoing) game together, and you replaced out of it very quickly. So I have only notions of how you play."
Since, we've had Prison and this other game. So that kinda strengthens my point?
That first part is why I keep doubting. I’m not 100% sure on GJ and don’t want to be the reason we lose afterwards. I want Vaimes and Umami to be aware of the possible consequences of letting this mission happen.
Vaimes in a town!you world. But I’m willing to bet the game on you being mafia so
Hm...as an aside, what is your meta as far as tunnelling (anyone can pitch in here): Do you tunnel this hard regardless of alignment? "Willing to bet the game" on me is unexpectedly strong.
On topic though: Why Vaimes over Umami? What is your townread on Umami solidly based on?
Step 1: Player A votes No towards a proposal THAT PLAYER A IS PART OF.
Step 2: Proposal passes regardless.
Step 3: The mission is failed by 1 vote.
I'm trying to mull this over - what is your read on Player A in this scenario, and is it valid or just a kneejerk reaction?
Almost done catching up, gotta walk my dog.
Ugh, wrote that in a rush, so fixed that.
(1)Probably a rebel that correctly guessed that one of the other two is a spy. (2)If A is a spy then both his buddies must have voiced that they’re going to accept the proposal.
What’s the point of this question?
The point is exactly the responses you've given. I'm...not too sure when I started townreading Umami, but I think it's just based on gut rather than actual reasons to, so I'm investigating and getting others to ask themselves the same question.
For 1, we know that this is definitely not the case because Umami has referred to that grouping as her 'ideal' one, and her posts seem to support that.
For 2, interesting. That might point a possible shadow/umami/GJ world. Not placing too much stock in it, I actually think GJ is probably rebel and your omitting the fact that she would really only need one of her scummates voting yes, not two. but it gives me something to think about which is exactly the point of this. Of course if you're spy...The wine.
I do think going with the same grouping on my say so and changing your vote to yes only for that group to fail is....not a good look.
Rhand timeline as town for sure, but he can (try to?) fake it as wolf. I don't have numbers on how much is happened as scum but it's not like, a for sure town tell for him or anything.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It seems to me you're just discounting the benefit of a multiple fail mission.
That mission I'm proposing is supposed to have all three Spies on it. You/Vaimes/Shadow are my three most likely spies.
Yes it sets up the need to play to the final mission, bit it also provides maximum info to solve the game with.
If there are two fails this mission, we can't fail mission four. So it's down to mission 5.
But then we KNOW a group with 2 spies. Then there's only one in the other four. We send three of the one spy group and send the three towniest and we win
...The basis of this plan is not horrible, but now that it's written out we'd have to look for in-thread hidden communication for signals to scummates.
This is disregarding the composition of the proposal itself, which...maybe not.
We can cross that bridge when we get the two fail mission. That's why I've been pushing for all spy teams ftr.
Do you think that's not just the optimal strategy? I don't want to bet on lucking out mission 4 personally.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Rhand is pretty vocal, but his reads keep changing.
Do you think he's tunneling you, or smearing you?
Hm. Maybe it's because he's been so consistently on me this entire game (flattering, really!) but I don't remember him flipping his reads too much, can you give examples?
To your question, it's funny, at the time of your asking, I just thought I was being tunneled.
Ironically, #373, where he claims I'm smearing him, actually feels like him smearing me.
I'm working around it, but I'm not seeing a scenario where he would do that at this time as Town, as there's no cause to illicit an emotional response (based on timing, not on wording) like that. Did he just get fed up with me not "admitting I'm spy" at this time for some reason?
Hashtag inb4 he says that me trying to understand his motivations is me smearing him.
Hm...as an aside, what is your meta as far as tunneling (anyone can pitch in here): Do you tunnel this hard regardless of alignment? "Willing to bet the game" on me is unexpectedly strong.
Rhand timeline tunneling [Sloth edit: I'm assuming that's what you mean here right?] as town for sure, but he can (try to?) fake it as wolf. I don't have numbers on how much is happened as scum but it's not like, a for sure town tell for him or anything.
Thanks for answering, fellow spy.
I-I mean, we're not spies together! At all.
@Shadow I'd like to hear you pitch in here actually.
We can cross that bridge when we get the two fail mission. That's why I've been pushing for all spy teams ftr.
Do you think that's not just the optimal strategy? I don't want to bet on lucking out mission 4 personally.
Well guess what, we have a two-fail mission. What did you mean in reference to crossing that bridge in your scenario? What's the next step in your mind?
Do you think there was 1 spy or 2 there?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I mean, I guess we'll see if this mission succeeds and passes.
If GJ is a spy, I don't think he can afford to pass it for wine.
So is GJ a spy now? Why/why not?
Why did you accept this proposal, Vaimes? You were leaning towards it last I heard, what made you decide to go for it?
So is GJ a spy now? Why/why not?
Why did you accept this proposal, Vaimes? You were leaning towards it last I heard, what made you decide to go for it?
I think he's more likely to be a spy than Rhand or Umami, just because I feel like they're genuinely working to solve the game and GJ is kind of floating by [in comparison].
Rhand is pretty vocal, but his reads keep changing.
Do you think he's tunneling you, or smearing you?
Hm. Maybe it's because he's been so consistently on me this entire game (flattering, really!) but I don't remember him flipping his reads too much, can you give examples?
To your question, it's funny, at the time of your asking, I just thought I was being tunneled.
Ironically, #373, where he claims I'm smearing him, actually feels like him smearing me.
I'm working around it, but I'm not seeing a scenario where he would do that at this time as Town, as there's no cause to illicit an emotional response (based on timing, not on wording) like that. Did he just get fed up with me not "admitting I'm spy" at this time for some reason?
Hashtag inb4 he says that me trying to understand his motivations is me smearing him.
He's been on you a while. His read's been fluzuating on me/GJ/Shadow a bit though. Basically his read has been scum is you + [two of (me/GJ/Shadow)] for most of the game. But that group of 3 keeps changing.
This is kinda why my pet scumteam is Rhand/Vaimes/Shadow. He's not really considering them at all. I mean, there's tunneling and there's tunneling. This is a bit much, I think?
Hm...as an aside, what is your meta as far as tunneling (anyone can pitch in here): Do you tunnel this hard regardless of alignment? "Willing to bet the game" on me is unexpectedly strong.
Rhand timeline tunneling [Sloth edit: I'm assuming that's what you mean here right?] as town for sure, but he can (try to?) fake it as wolf. I don't have numbers on how much is happened as scum but it's not like, a for sure town tell for him or anything.
Thanks for answering, fellow spy.
I-I mean, we're not spies together! At all.
@Shadow I'd like to hear you pitch in here actually.
Yup, not spies together at all!
Wait, hopefully this is cheek and not senility. You didn't forget who your spyfriends are did you?
We can cross that bridge when we get the two fail mission. That's why I've been pushing for all spy teams ftr.
Do you think that's not just the optimal strategy? I don't want to bet on lucking out mission 4 personally.
Well guess what, we have a two-fail mission. What did you mean in reference to crossing that bridge in your scenario? What's the next step in your mind?
Do you think there was 1 spy or 2 there?[/quote]I was referring to a mission in which two fails were submitted. 2 and 3 both only had one. If two were submitted, then we'd know that there were two for sure spies in [Umami/Rhand/GJ]. Now there just could be two but there's no solid proof.
Talk to me about GJ though. You think that my assessment that he's not being pushy enough to be scum is wrong, or just premature?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well Rhand/Umami, y'all said this mission would solve the game for you. Walk me through your thought process.
We're gonna take this nice and slow.
I wasn’t sure about GJ, now I am.
The recent Sloth/KJ interactions make me even more confident I’m correct on those two.
So GJ/Sloth/KJ is hopefully it.
I’m going to look back at GJ interactions though just to be sure.
Gah I think I am wrong about Sloth.
I was already wondering why GJ made such a weird mission. The logical thing to do when Sloth/Umami/Vaimes failed, is take out your scumread (Sloth) and replace him by yourself. What he did was take out not only Sloth but also Vaimes. Why would he do that? The logical answer in spy!GJ world is because Vaimes was the fail, not Sloth. And he has to avoid 2 fails.
The logical answer in rebel!GJ worlds? The only one I can think of is strong doubt between Sloth and Vaimes, but that requires Umami to be mafia. The missions in that case rule out Sloth / Vaimes / GJ / me, leaving only Shadow and KJ.
So discarding my reads and looking at data, Vaimes / GJ / ? Makes the most sense, with ? Having to be one of KJ / Shadow.
Umami / Shadow / KJ is the other possibility.
Now if Sloth is NOT a spy, then I think we can rule out Shadow for mission 1. I know how Shadow thinks, and I’m fairly sure he would have failed mission one and pinned it on Sloth with how strongly I was scumreading Sloth if Shadow was a spy.
Which leaves Vaimes / GJ / KJ as the only plausible option.
GJ tried pocketing me early with defending me when I was clearing Vaimes. But then he also told me I was overthinking it, which might be TMI because he went from agreeing with me to that.
Had to take the chance that that would work. It could have meant that we lock the game down on game turn 4.
That’s what I was hoping for.
If Umami is the spy there, that’s some amazing play.
From my perspective (because again, I DON'T POCKET, EVEN IF I WAS WOLF). It's you or Umani. Maybe you are a rebel, or maybe I lolGJ and picked the one wolf who failed mission two. It's hard to say. I don't think it's possible that there was some chicken shennanigans going on, but even if there was, then that's just unwinnable.
This game feel so absurdly luck based, and wolf sided. It's frusterating.
Town doesn’t write things like that.
Sloth is 100% a spy.
GJ has nominated 3.1: GJ, Rhand, and Umani.
Most of you have already voted but I will give 10 hours for anyone to change their vote. I will be requiring pass/fail with votes going forward in the interest of speeding the game up.
obviously wrong
I'm not just town. I'm town!sloth, and I do what I want.
Rhand there are no flips this game, which is the only thing that would satisfy town!you about me. In that case, you have to work with me and at least entertain otherworlds. Answer 347 and 340.
That first part is why I keep doubting. I’m not 100% sure on GJ and don’t want to be the reason we lose afterwards. I want Vaimes and Umami to be aware of the possible consequences of letting this mission happen.
Vaimes in a town!you world. But I’m willing to bet the game on you being mafia so
Probably a rebel that correctly guessed that one of the other two is a spy.
If A is a spy then both his buddies must have voiced that they’re going to accept the proposal.
What’s the point of this question?
What a helpful rhetorical question
That mission I'm proposing is supposed to have all three Spies on it. You/Vaimes/Shadow are my three most likely spies.
Yes it sets up the need to play to the final mission, bit it also provides maximum info to solve the game with.
If there are two fails this mission, we can't fail mission four. So it's down to mission 5.
But then we KNOW a group with 2 spies. Then there's only one in the other four. We send three of the one spy group and send the three towniest and we win
That very same game where you claimed "We only played in 1 (not ongoing) game together, and you replaced out of it very quickly. So I have only notions of how you play."
Since, we've had Prison and this other game. So that kinda strengthens my point? Hm...as an aside, what is your meta as far as tunnelling (anyone can pitch in here): Do you tunnel this hard regardless of alignment? "Willing to bet the game" on me is unexpectedly strong.
On topic though: Why Vaimes over Umami? What is your townread on Umami solidly based on?
The point is exactly the responses you've given. I'm...not too sure when I started townreading Umami, but I think it's just based on gut rather than actual reasons to, so I'm investigating and getting others to ask themselves the same question.
For 1, we know that this is definitely not the case because Umami has referred to that grouping as her 'ideal' one, and her posts seem to support that.
For 2, interesting. That might point a possible shadow/umami/GJ world. Not placing too much stock in it, I actually think GJ is probably rebel and your omitting the fact that she would really only need one of her scummates voting yes, not two. but it gives me something to think about which is exactly the point of this. Of course if you're spy...The wine.
I do think going with the same grouping on my say so and changing your vote to yes only for that group to fail is....not a good look.
...
...please continue? lol.
This is disregarding the composition of the proposal itself, which...maybe not.
Do you think he's tunneling you, or smearing you?
Thanks for clarifying.
Do you think that's not just the optimal strategy? I don't want to bet on lucking out mission 4 personally.
Which is obvious.
But good try KJ.
The only question that remains is if it’s Shadow or GJ. My money is on Shadow spy.
If GJ is a spy, I don't think he can afford to pass it for wine.
Yes (4): GJ, Rhand, Umami, Vaimes
No (3): Killjoy, Shadow, Sloth
The mission was approved.
The mission failed with 2 passes and 1 fail.
It is now Vaimes turn to nominate, he has 72 hours to propose a mission. Mission 4 requires 4 players to go on it and 2 fail submissions to fail.
We're gonna take this nice and slow.
*Mission with both fails*
-_-
To your question, it's funny, at the time of your asking, I just thought I was being tunneled.
Ironically, #373, where he claims I'm smearing him, actually feels like him smearing me.
I'm working around it, but I'm not seeing a scenario where he would do that at this time as Town, as there's no cause to illicit an emotional response (based on timing, not on wording) like that. Did he just get fed up with me not "admitting I'm spy" at this time for some reason?
Hashtag inb4 he says that me trying to understand his motivations is me smearing him. Thanks for answering, fellow spy.
I-I mean, we're not spies together! At all.
@Shadow I'd like to hear you pitch in here actually.
Well guess what, we have a two-fail mission. What did you mean in reference to crossing that bridge in your scenario? What's the next step in your mind?
Do you think there was 1 spy or 2 there?
I need to reread soon. Occum's Razor says that one of my townreads is scum, and I need to figure this out.
Why did you accept this proposal, Vaimes? You were leaning towards it last I heard, what made you decide to go for it?
I almost didn't accept. Was kind of a coinflip.
This is kinda why my pet scumteam is Rhand/Vaimes/Shadow. He's not really considering them at all. I mean, there's tunneling and there's tunneling. This is a bit much, I think?
Yup, not spies together at all!
Wait, hopefully this is cheek and not senility. You didn't forget who your spyfriends are did you?
Old age is a *****.
Well guess what, we have a two-fail mission. What did you mean in reference to crossing that bridge in your scenario? What's the next step in your mind?
Do you think there was 1 spy or 2 there?[/quote]I was referring to a mission in which two fails were submitted. 2 and 3 both only had one. If two were submitted, then we'd know that there were two for sure spies in [Umami/Rhand/GJ]. Now there just could be two but there's no solid proof.
Talk to me about GJ though. You think that my assessment that he's not being pushy enough to be scum is wrong, or just premature?
Who is that to you?
Also, talk to me about Umami, because I wanna look at her again given she was on both of the failed missions.
That I won't answer until I've reread. Seems kinda irresponsible to keep townreading Umami and Rhand into oblivion, as much as I want to.
Although this mission passing doesn't mean that everyone on it is a rebel. If there's only one spy, they're not gonna fail it.
But going into the mission aiming for that is silly.
I wasn’t sure about GJ, now I am.
The recent Sloth/KJ interactions make me even more confident I’m correct on those two.
So GJ/Sloth/KJ is hopefully it.
I’m going to look back at GJ interactions though just to be sure.
Darnit. Am I wrong about Sloth?
I was already wondering why GJ made such a weird mission. The logical thing to do when Sloth/Umami/Vaimes failed, is take out your scumread (Sloth) and replace him by yourself. What he did was take out not only Sloth but also Vaimes. Why would he do that? The logical answer in spy!GJ world is because Vaimes was the fail, not Sloth. And he has to avoid 2 fails.
The logical answer in rebel!GJ worlds? The only one I can think of is strong doubt between Sloth and Vaimes, but that requires Umami to be mafia. The missions in that case rule out Sloth / Vaimes / GJ / me, leaving only Shadow and KJ.
So discarding my reads and looking at data, Vaimes / GJ / ? Makes the most sense, with ? Having to be one of KJ / Shadow.
Umami / Shadow / KJ is the other possibility.
Now if Sloth is NOT a spy, then I think we can rule out Shadow for mission 1. I know how Shadow thinks, and I’m fairly sure he would have failed mission one and pinned it on Sloth with how strongly I was scumreading Sloth if Shadow was a spy.
Which leaves Vaimes / GJ / KJ as the only plausible option.
GJ tried pocketing me early with defending me when I was clearing Vaimes. But then he also told me I was overthinking it, which might be TMI because he went from agreeing with me to that.
I’m going to reread some more.
No, not a spy by the way. Why would I pin myself like that if I was?
Rhand is acting really ******* weird, so either he is a wolf with exactly Sloth/Vaimes, or it's Umani and two of Shadow/KJ/Sloth
From my perspective anyway.
...Actually *****.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Hm.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That’s what I was hoping for.
If Umami is the spy there, that’s some amazing play.
From my perspective (because again, I DON'T POCKET, EVEN IF I WAS WOLF). It's you or Umani. Maybe you are a rebel, or maybe I lolGJ and picked the one wolf who failed mission two. It's hard to say. I don't think it's possible that there was some chicken shennanigans going on, but even if there was, then that's just unwinnable.
This game feel so absurdly luck based, and wolf sided. It's frusterating.
The GJ way path to no lynching: