I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
Let's run it!
I nominate myself, sloth, and vaimes
But.
...I feel like I'm missing something here in your reasoning.
You just cost us a phase because you didn't want to choose a group you yourself would have chosen, and literally just did?
If you had voted yes, your ideal group would have gone through (and people would have still voted against, dissuading your concerns?)
I don't really see what you gained from this.
I also don't see how whatever you gained would have been affected at all by you voting Yes. Talk to me.
I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
Let's run it!
I nominate myself, sloth, and vaimes
But.
...I feel like I'm missing something here in your reasoning.
You just cost us a phase because you didn't want to choose a group you yourself would have chosen, and literally just did?
If you had voted yes, your ideal group would have gone through (and people would have still voted against, dissuading your concerns?)
I don't really see what you gained from this.
I also don't see how whatever you gained would have been affected at all by you voting Yes. Talk to me.
P.S. That's not the correct proposal format btw.
I mean honestly I voted no before your nomination even came out. If GJ and Killjoy had approved the mission then I would have changed the mission instead of running this one. I'm used to running test missions where the people on the mission reject and then you see who wasn't on the mission who voted for it. That doesn't really work here where the default is to pass though, so yeah I didn't think that out in the context of this specific group.
Yeah, this should have been glaringly obvious to me that if bad guys wanted to get the mission through then it would go through regardless of my vote. So, yeah, that was stupid
I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
Let's run it!
I nominate myself, sloth, and vaimes
But.
...I feel like I'm missing something here in your reasoning.
You just cost us a phase because you didn't want to choose a group you yourself would have chosen, and literally just did?
If you had voted yes, your ideal group would have gone through (and people would have still voted against, dissuading your concerns?)
I don't really see what you gained from this.
I also don't see how whatever you gained would have been affected at all by you voting Yes. Talk to me.
P.S. That's not the correct proposal format btw.
Wait, what do you mean cost us a phase? I didn't cost us anything--we get up to 5 nominations before a mission has to go through. You were the first nomination. There's no cost here--we just gained an extra set of voting patterns. I still don't agree that there's a cost to going through more nominations so long as you look at nominators and don't get stuck with a bad 5th nominator. I mean, Vaimes is coming up not right after me but after GJ
I mean, this is my ideal mission--I think it has best shot of passing, but if everyone voted it through, I would have been majorly concerned. Plus, I knew I had next nomination so wanted to see the voting pattern and vaimes has the mission after GJ.
Let's run it!
I nominate myself, sloth, and vaimes
But.
...I feel like I'm missing something here in your reasoning.
You just cost us a phase because you didn't want to choose a group you yourself would have chosen, and literally just did?
If you had voted yes, your ideal group would have gone through (and people would have still voted against, dissuading your concerns?)
I don't really see what you gained from this.
I also don't see how whatever you gained would have been affected at all by you voting Yes. Talk to me.
P.S. That's not the correct proposal format btw.
Wait, what do you mean cost us a phase? I didn't cost us anything--we get up to 5 nominations before a mission has to go through. You were the first nomination. There's no cost here--we just gained an extra set of voting patterns. I still don't agree that there's a cost to going through more nominations so long as you look at nominators and don't get stuck with a bad 5th nominator. I mean, Vaimes is coming up not right after me but after GJ
I guess I'm still seeing things in 'mafia terms' but to me the proposal being rejected is the equivalent of a No Lynch, if that makes sense.
Specially since we're now doing the exact same proposal...only one phase later.
My current reads are GJ/Umami/Vaimes rebels, which means Sloth/KJ/Shadow spies.
The problem with that would be that Shadow was pushing for a world where he and Sloth would be auto-includes in mission 2, which means they either pass that one too and count on us being totally mislead for the final 3 missions or risk having dual fail where they really don’t want that.
Both scenario’s are pretty bad, so I must be wrong about (at least) one of my reads.
My current reads are GJ/Umami/Vaimes rebels, which means Sloth/KJ/Shadow spies.
The problem with that would be that Shadow was pushing for a world where he and Sloth would be auto-includes in mission 2, which means they either pass that one too and count on us being totally mislead for the final 3 missions or risk having dual fail where they really don’t want that.
Both scenario’s are pretty bad, so I must be wrong about (at least) one of my reads.
I’m not at all sure which one.
Where is that GJ read coming from?
@Umami: Obviously optimally 100% Rebel mission are that, but that's also unrealistic. There will usually be at least one spy on most missions.
It's like in mafia, having a gameplan to only lynch mafia. There will always be scummy town, so that's unlikely.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Actually Rhand. Your reads on me/Sloth seemed to be that we were spies, but your most recent post seems to say that you resolved on GJ/Vaimes/Umami as Rebels, and the spies are PoE.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Actually Rhand. Your reads on me/Sloth seemed to be that we were spies, but your most recent post seems to say that you resolved on GJ/Vaimes/Umami as Rebels, and the spies are PoE.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Long day, so I'm going to come back tomorrow. If there's anything pressing, let me know.
I mean, yeah, my default no thing for testing nominations only really works if there's at least 1 other person on the mission with the same style. I'm just used to playing with the same group in person. I didn't think it through for this mission, but I agree with GJ's #209 about having multiple nominations not at all being the same as a no lynch.
As for why this specific mission, I had already posted my thoughts on Vaimes and Sloth before Sloth did his nomination.
Mission 2 with Sloth, Umami, and Vaimes has failed!
They submitted 2 passes and 1 fail.
It is GJ's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours.
In the interest of streamlining the game I am strongly considering mandating mission pass/fail submissions with votes. If anyone has an issue with this please message me ASAP. If there are no issues I will be implementing this for Mission 3. Please do not discuss this in thread.
I want to say it's Sloth, just because Umami voting against the mission and then proposing the same exact team just to fake vote analysis seems a bit over the top?
So yeah, Sloth spy. Next is deciding whether Rhand is distancing or just better than me.
I’m inclined to agree with Vaimes here, back of my head I wish Vaimes hadn’t been straight out of the gate the one to say it. It doesn’t make sense for scum!Umami to decline a mission then go with the same one though.
To whoever asked, I voted yes on the mission because I was told I had 15 min to decide, saw it was the same proposal and made a snap decision with basically no time to actually think about it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I’m inclined to agree with Vaimes here, back of my head I wish Vaimes hadn’t been straight out of the gate the one to say it. It doesn’t make sense for scum!Umami to decline a mission then go with the same one though.
To whoever asked, I voted yes on the mission because I was told I had 15 min to decide, saw it was the same proposal and made a snap decision with basically no time to actually think about it.
Okay, but why did you vote yes to Sloth's mission in the first place?
@GJ, why did you not vote on sloth's and then say yes to mine? Not in terms of contrast but can you explain each individually
@Rhand, GJ: Why did you vote the way you did for that mission? I feel like you two are the least vocal if the game, and I wanna hear from you guys.
I mean, Rhand makes sense--he voted no on the last vote (for good reason) and I assumed he had the same reason for this one. I don't know why any town not on a 3 person mission would vote yes to it when we're not even close to the 5th nomination
I think I'm eliminating GJ/Sloth/shadow as the team, just because GJ voting yes for the second mission is weird if he knows it's already gonna go through [due to Umami's vote shenanigans]. Kind of heavy-handed move for a spy.
I have more thoughts but they lead back to "figure out Rhand's alignment" which I'm gonna put off until this weekend or something.
I read back from the start and took a lot of notes. I know they're confusing, but I still think it's worth talking through. I'll try to edit and make a second post that's more clear/concise. Not sure if the bullet point format will transfer here
Sloth and Rhand have been in opposition since the start #40 with both buddying up to Vaimes; #47 sloth explains how Rhand’s statement was misleading; I also really didn’t like that early post, but I don’t know Rhand has felt like he’s trying to solve, but so has Sloth. Also, if they’re both bad guys this is like super early distancing
I really agree with sloths #52 about it being off that Rhand would dismiss a strategy that he actually employs, but at the same time Shadow has employed that same strategy, selected Sloth, and then Sloth chose not to pick Shadow for the 2nd mission
Sloth early on points the finger at KJ #43
Rhand’s #87 just reaffirms that Rhand/Sloth not w/w
Sloth’s #100 against Killjoy, #103 against Rhand
#127 seems like genuine frustration on shadows part—doesn’t necessarily mean that Sloth’s mistake was intentional especially since he reads back and apologizes (#156), but doesn’t feel like an intentional distance thing
Possible worlds? bad guys first (good guys in brackets)
Sloth/Shadow/GJ (Rhand/KJ/Vaimes)—More likely for bad guy sloth world? Shadow could pull the double bad guy first mission move knowing they’d both pass since I think virtually everyone said no one would fail the first—wouldn’t exactly require subtle communication and then sloth could change it to avoid a two spy mission with 3 that would have to fail…see #71 Sloth/GJ note
Sloth/GJ/KJ (Rhand/Shadow/Vaimes)—I mean both sloth and Vaimes dismissed KJ super early with little explanation; Again, this preemptive distancing just doesn’t seems necessary or very beneficial
Sloth/Shadow/KJ—same issue with the early KJ dismissal
Sloth/GJ/Rhand (Shadow/KJ/Vaimes)—same issue as I had with having KJ on this team; Rhand and Sloth were in opposition basically from the start, but they actually had some substance to their arguments; this seems like the least likely of these possible teams to me
Vaimes Bad Guy
Rhand tries to clear Vaimes based on his attempt to get on mission
Vaimes #28 legit just indicates that if he was on the first mission, he would have passed it even if he was scum (doesn’t want a 1 v. 1)
GJ offers early support for Vaimes #32 - I’ve already discussed this post; not necessarily team indicative, but I already have GJ suspicions
Vaimes is also super ready to point the finger at KJ #53--I don’t know what I missed with KJ that made everyone think he’s a bad guy, but that both Vaimes and Sloth agree so early on that KJ was bad is clearing him for me. I mean expressly saying “don’t put KJ on any missions” just isn’t something either would benefit from if teammates
Shadow intentionally chooses not to put Vaimes on his mission and explains why he’s selecting Sloth instead #54, if they were team could be avoiding set-up of double fail in mission 2
Vaimes early on says Sloth not a spy and says he will tunnel shadow if it fails #59#60
#180—reading back this just struck me as odd, could be NAI but felt weird
Possible worlds?
Vaimes/Rhand/GJ (Sloth/KJ/Shadow): really don’t think Vaimes or Rhand are team with KJ, Rhand had post indicating he thought the lack of fail was a positive sign for shadow; despite him and Vaimes both suggesting a pass was a positive sign for shadow being good guy (we can debate positive vs. lack of negative if you want, at the very least if it failed shadow was bad), Rhand seems confident shadow is bad and Vaimes definitely isn’t defending him; Plus Rhand has cleared GJ, this is my most likely world for bad guy Vaimes
Vaimes/GJ/Shadow (Sloth/KJ/Rhand)—weird if #59#60 true, especially since vaimes didn’t try to spin shadow as good guy because it passed
Vaimes/Rhand/Shadow (Sloth/KJ/GJ)—point above for Vaimes/Shadow combination still stands, in any Vaimes/Shadow team, it makes sense for Shadow to avoid taking Vaimes and for Vaimes to ensure he got on a future mission, but I’m struggling with seeing interaction between them. I guess lack of interaction—Vaimes not offering a read either way could be an indicator—not wanting to form an attachment but also not hurting shadows position.
Both Sloth/Vaimes bad guys
Why would sloth choose to have a 2nd bad guy? I mean there’s a potential pay off, but I don’t think the risk would be worth it, especially if they haven’t played a lot together/don’t have a go-to rule to dictate who would fail in a multiple scum mission. @Sloth @Vaimes, how many games of resistance have you played together
Sloth clears Vaimes #40
#179, weird but doesn’t seem to be like vote signaling/any type of communication
#181#182, I mean it’s definitely not something that stood out to me as communication at the time—but the burning thing could be code? I think the only way this works if Rhand is in on it (Sloth/Vaimes/Rhand) and they’re just throwing Sloth to clear each other. This would have to be from the start though since Rhand and Sloth have been in opposition
That Vaimes attacked Sloth immediately instead of me could support this
Still seems super unlikely
#185, not sure what this post would mean in this world
#186, Vaimes seems to think Rhand is bad—@Vaimes, was this serious?
#189, and the posts around it Vaimes and KJ really engage on the benefits/risks of a 2 spy mission for bad guys vs. good guys. KJ seems to really believe there aren’t two spies on the mission but that there should be (b/c he doesn’t think choosing 3 good is probably enough to be a good strategy/pay off in terms of winning in 3 missions?). Vaimes actually seems legit in this discussion—didn’t see any tells in terms of trying undermine benefit to bad guys or throw out the idea that anyone would attempt it, but also haven’t seen anyone really consider this possibility of two bad guys here
Possible Worlds
Sloth/Vaimes/Rhand—see above discussion about communication; as much as I suspect GJ, I think this is the only possible spy team if both sloth and vaimes are bad; I think it’s pretty unlikely though b/c I really don’t see Sloth/Rhand w/w based on early interactions unless Rhand was planning this from the start and Vaimes was able to pick up on it for the vote. We’re much safer assuming only 1 bad guy given what it would have taken to pull this off
still don’t think secret hitler reference was useful attempt to help
The automatic yes on the first vote I disagree with but is NAI—it is a really great excuse for scum to pass nominations that they’re not on thought
Early defense of Rhand’s #21 and has been given a green flag by Rhand
Not sure if team or Rhand potentially pocketed
GJ’s #35/#36 seem half-hearted attempts to get on the mission at best; already discussed these too so won’t repeat
Says repeatedly throughout he wants to be on missions but hasn’t felt like he’s trying to solve
*He and Sloth (#71/around that area) are engaging with each other in a not super oppositional way discussing Rhand. Felt superficial
Proposes that he be on mission with Rhand and Sloth #130. Doesn’t explain why or defend. Again, it felt half-hearted like he didn’t think it would actually happen, as does #143
#172, again sloth asks to be put on the mission but he isn’t really contributing anything or interacting with anyone
#178, this meaningless post pattern is killing me
#209, GJ didn’t jump on an opportunity to present failing nominations as a no lynch despite voting to approve the nomination (makes me hesitate more)
No one is really commenting on him in terms of explaining why they've cleared him and no one is confronting him —@Rhand what’s the basis of your rebel read?
On my spy suspect list—could easily be teammate of pretty much anyone
Rhand and Shadow apparently like to attempt multiple bad guys on 1 mission intentionally
Shadow and GJ yes votes are both huge red flags. Any time a mission gets more than 4 votes it means scum has to be on it (a bad guy voted yes); that doesn’t mean the person who voted yes who isn’t on the mission is a bad guy as there could be multiple bad guys on the mission, but it does mean that voting yes as a town not on the mission doesn’t make sense especially without the pressure of being close to final nomination. Like if I was not on this mission even if I thought it had a good shot at passing, I wouldn’t be willing to bet on it unless I thought the next 3 nominations were all by bad guys and/or there was no shot of me getting put on a mission instead
#54, shadow starts off saying that game doesn’t start until mission 3 which is why he could be auto yes until then? —but when he explained the most recent vote, he wasn’t like “i always vote yes until 3rd mission” so that actually makes it less reasonable to me
KJ says “this is not mafia” #74, repeatedly says he wants more info, but then suggests nominations are useless as data points when I explain my auto no even though he says in #76 that we gain info from rejected teams. I know I’ve already discussed it, but it’s still bothering me. That said, I can’t see how KJ fits in potential bad guy teams and his voting pattern is good.
@KJ what are you thinking teams wise? I’m on #78 and it looks like you think everyone is fine… what’s changed in your reads? Also #108, you’re engaging everyone but you’re not sharing any conclusions/I haven’t felt like you’ve been putting pressure on anyone. I stand by my #109, what teams are you seeing? You’ve said Sloth but he’s not in a vacuum
#175, I think you should go for the all good mission at #2 because if you get it right you can finish in 3 missions and not even give scum a real chance. That said, Killjoy’s theory has some sense in that forcing either awkward, exposing communication or a double fail would be good. My problem is that @KJ you haven’t told us who you’ve identified as the two bad guys you would put on the mission. For your theory to work, you have to have strong suspects. All I had were strong good guy reads. Who were your suspected bad guys before this mission that you would have proposed? Also, why did you leave me out? Sloth had just picked his mission, I was picking next. It didn’t feel like you were lobbying me or telling me two bad guys I should choose next to force a double fail and it also didn’t feel like you were telling sloth how he should have chosen differently.
Sloth, what does your #56 mean?
@Shadow, I know you’ve been busy, but what are your reads? besides agreeing with Vaimes #227
1) Why is everyone clearing GJ? Or conversely, why is no one pressuring him? He has asked to go on missions and stated facts. It doesn't feel like he's trying to solve
2) Why is everyone sure that KJ is a bad guy? That both sloth and vaimes agreed that he shouldn't be on missions early on makes me think he's good
Rhand and Shadow apparently like to attempt multiple bad guys on 1 mission intentionally
Shadow and GJ yes votes are both huge red flags. Any time a mission gets more than 4 votes it means scum has to be on it (a bad guy voted yes); that doesn’t mean the person who voted yes who isn’t on the mission is a bad guy as there could be multiple bad guys on the mission, but it does mean that voting yes as a town not on the mission doesn’t make sense especially without the pressure of being close to final nomination. Like if I was not on this mission even if I thought it had a good shot at passing, I wouldn’t be willing to bet on it unless I thought the next 3 nominations were all by bad guys and/or there was no shot of me getting put on a mission instead
#54, shadow starts off saying that game doesn’t start until mission 3 which is why he could be auto yes until then? —but when he explained the most recent vote, he wasn’t like “i always vote yes until 3rd mission” so that actually makes it less reasonable to me
KJ says “this is not mafia” #74, repeatedly says he wants more info, but then suggests nominations are useless as data points when I explain my auto no even though he says in #76 that we gain info from rejected teams. I know I’ve already discussed it, but it’s still bothering me. That said, I can’t see how KJ fits in potential bad guy teams and his voting pattern is good.
@KJ what are you thinking teams wise? I’m on #78 and it looks like you think everyone is fine… what’s changed in your reads? Also #108, you’re engaging everyone but you’re not sharing any conclusions/I haven’t felt like you’ve been putting pressure on anyone. I stand by my #109, what teams are you seeing? You’ve said Sloth but he’s not in a vacuum
#175, I think you should go for the all good mission at #2 because if you get it right you can finish in 3 missions and not even give scum a real chance. That said, Killjoy’s theory has some sense in that forcing either awkward, exposing communication or a double fail would be good. My problem is that @KJ you haven’t told us who you’ve identified as the two bad guys you would put on the mission. For your theory to work, you have to have strong suspects. All I had were strong good guy reads. Who were your suspected bad guys before this mission that you would have proposed? Also, why did you leave me out? Sloth had just picked his mission, I was picking next. It didn’t feel like you were lobbying me or telling me two bad guys I should choose next to force a double fail and it also didn’t feel like you were telling sloth how he should have chosen differently.
Sloth, what does your #56 mean?
@Shadow, I know you’ve been busy, but what are your reads? besides agreeing with Vaimes #227
1) Why is everyone clearing GJ? Or conversely, why is no one pressuring him? He has asked to go on missions and stated facts. It doesn't feel like he's trying to solve
2) Why is everyone sure that KJ is a bad guy? That both sloth and vaimes agreed that he shouldn't be on missions early on makes me think he's good
I looked back at GJ because he accepted this mission, and I don’t know why I cleared him.
I think that read was wrong.
@Vaimes: why dismiss Sloth/Shadow/GJ?
That team makes total sense.
I think I'm eliminating GJ/Sloth/shadow as the team, just because GJ voting yes for the second mission is weird if he knows it's already gonna go through [due to Umami's vote shenanigans]. Kind of heavy-handed move for a spy.
I have more thoughts but they lead back to "figure out Rhand's alignment" which I'm gonna put off until this weekend or something.
Somewhat disappointed Sloth didn’t be include a real “why” for this proposal. Still, I have varying degrees of trust for this group so might a well see what happens.
The fact that any of you are pretending mission 1 would not have resulted in a pass, regardless of who was presented is irratating.
This mission is exciting. Take me Mr Sloth.
It seems like GJ was planning to let that one go through too?
Which makes no sense in retrospect if GJ is a rebel. Because Shadow just said he was going to accept it. That means if GJ believes this mission is pure, he trusts Shadow + everyone on that team. Which is 5 people including himself.
GJ is a spy.
...I feel like I'm missing something here in your reasoning.
You just cost us a phase because you didn't want to choose a group you yourself would have chosen, and literally just did?
If you had voted yes, your ideal group would have gone through (and people would have still voted against, dissuading your concerns?)
I don't really see what you gained from this.
I also don't see how whatever you gained would have been affected at all by you voting Yes. Talk to me.
P.S. That's not the correct proposal format btw.
Umami has nominated: sloth, vaimes, and Umami.
You have roughly 24 hours to vote by PM.
I would prefer the formatting specified in the OP but will accept any clear proposal in bold text.
I mean honestly I voted no before your nomination even came out. If GJ and Killjoy had approved the mission then I would have changed the mission instead of running this one. I'm used to running test missions where the people on the mission reject and then you see who wasn't on the mission who voted for it. That doesn't really work here where the default is to pass though, so yeah I didn't think that out in the context of this specific group.
Yeah, this should have been glaringly obvious to me that if bad guys wanted to get the mission through then it would go through regardless of my vote. So, yeah, that was stupid
Sorry
Wait, what do you mean cost us a phase? I didn't cost us anything--we get up to 5 nominations before a mission has to go through. You were the first nomination. There's no cost here--we just gained an extra set of voting patterns. I still don't agree that there's a cost to going through more nominations so long as you look at nominators and don't get stuck with a bad 5th nominator. I mean, Vaimes is coming up not right after me but after GJ
Specially since we're now doing the exact same proposal...only one phase later.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The problem with that would be that Shadow was pushing for a world where he and Sloth would be auto-includes in mission 2, which means they either pass that one too and count on us being totally mislead for the final 3 missions or risk having dual fail where they really don’t want that.
Both scenario’s are pretty bad, so I must be wrong about (at least) one of my reads.
I’m not at all sure which one.
GJ, use your vote.
@Umami: Obviously optimally 100% Rebel mission are that, but that's also unrealistic. There will usually be at least one spy on most missions.
It's like in mafia, having a gameplan to only lynch mafia. There will always be scummy town, so that's unlikely.
Whats up with that?
Shadow became the third slot because of POE
And this is why I think GJ is rebel.
It’s two-way POE.
I mean, friend rebel.
Rebel is what I meant.
I mean, yeah, my default no thing for testing nominations only really works if there's at least 1 other person on the mission with the same style. I'm just used to playing with the same group in person. I didn't think it through for this mission, but I agree with GJ's #209 about having multiple nominations not at all being the same as a no lynch.
As for why this specific mission, I had already posted my thoughts on Vaimes and Sloth before Sloth did his nomination.
Yes: GJ, Shadow, Sloth, Umami, Vaimes
No: KJ, Rhand
The mission as been accepted.
Sloth, Umami, and Vaimes have 24 hours to complete their mission.
Please do not post.
They submitted 2 passes and 1 fail.
It is GJ's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours.
In the interest of streamlining the game I am strongly considering mandating mission pass/fail submissions with votes. If anyone has an issue with this please message me ASAP. If there are no issues I will be implementing this for Mission 3. Please do not discuss this in thread.
So yeah, Sloth spy. Next is deciding whether Rhand is distancing or just better than me.
To whoever asked, I voted yes on the mission because I was told I had 15 min to decide, saw it was the same proposal and made a snap decision with basically no time to actually think about it.
Okay, but why did you vote yes to Sloth's mission in the first place?
@GJ, why did you not vote on sloth's and then say yes to mine? Not in terms of contrast but can you explain each individually
I mean, Rhand makes sense--he voted no on the last vote (for good reason) and I assumed he had the same reason for this one. I don't know why any town not on a 3 person mission would vote yes to it when we're not even close to the 5th nomination
This is a pretty big assumption I'm making considering I've never seen you as any sort of scum, so someone else should weigh in.
I have more thoughts but they lead back to "figure out Rhand's alignment" which I'm gonna put off until this weekend or something.
Sloth Bad Guy
Vaimes Bad Guy
Possible worlds?
Both Sloth/Vaimes bad guys
Sloth, what does your #56 mean?
@Shadow, I know you’ve been busy, but what are your reads? besides agreeing with Vaimes #227
1) Why is everyone clearing GJ? Or conversely, why is no one pressuring him? He has asked to go on missions and stated facts. It doesn't feel like he's trying to solve
2) Why is everyone sure that KJ is a bad guy? That both sloth and vaimes agreed that he shouldn't be on missions early on makes me think he's good
@Sloth, sorry
1 spy in (Sloth, Vaimes, Umami)
2 spies in (Shadow, GJ, KJ)
I obviously think it’s Sloth in that first trio.
The second trio I’m now thinking GJ/Shadow because they both accepted the 1-fail mission.
I looked back at GJ because he accepted this mission, and I don’t know why I cleared him.
I think that read was wrong.
@Vaimes: why dismiss Sloth/Shadow/GJ?
That team makes total sense.
He didn’t know Shadow was going to pass, right?
Immediately after that, GJ posts this:
It seems like GJ was planning to let that one go through too?
Which makes no sense in retrospect if GJ is a rebel. Because Shadow just said he was going to accept it. That means if GJ believes this mission is pure, he trusts Shadow + everyone on that team. Which is 5 people including himself.
GJ is a spy.
Honestly, until a mission failed, I didn't really care what the teams were, other than me trying to be on one.
The GJ way path to no lynching: