A Mafia game created by Osieorb18.
Reviewed by DV, Jackrito, Silvercrys, the worst.
#0: I am the host and I reserve the rights to change these rules.
I am the final arbiter of role interactions and game rule infringements. I will never lie or intentionally mislead you. If you have a problem with a ruling I make, please shelve it until after the game. To the best of my and my reviewers' knowledge, this is not a bastard game.
#1: Follow the spirit of these rules in addition to the letter.
These rules direct the actions of human beings and are enforced by human beings. I am lenient in many a case, as I know that human beings are fallible and that players often don't read the rules. That said, I do not like to have to warn the same player for the same rule multiple times.
If you try to cheat the game or the game rules in any manner, usually it will be discovered. As of the writing of this rule, I only have one offense for which I would blacklist a player. That offense is intentionally and knowingly cheating. If I catch you intentionally and knowingly cheating, not only will you be immediately modkilled, not only will I be extremely likely to not allow you in any games I run in the future, but I will be inclined to do everything in my power to ensure that you do not participate in any other games on this site or in any other community in which I play Mafia as a publicly-broadcasted cheater.
If you believe that you have found a mistake or loophole in these rules, please discuss it with me before posting.
#2: Have fun, be respectful towards the other people involved in the game, and follow the normal forum rules. This is a game, which we're playing for fun. Expect a low tolerance for toxicity.
You are responsible for following all forum and subforum rules and guidelines. Forum-wide rules are available here. Mafia subforum rules are available here. Additional subforum rules are here:
-Game Limit-
Players may participate in only three games at any given time. An exception to this rule can be made by hosts in need of a replacement for a game, if no other replacement can be found.
-Suicide-
If you no longer wish to participate in a game for any reason, contact the host. Do NOT attempt to force the host to modkill you.
-Current Game Discussion-
A player in an ongoing game may not discuss that game with any other player in that game, or in public forums. Also, it is a good idea to ask permission before discussing the game with anyone outside the game, because they can no longer replace into the game once any meaningful discussion takes place.
-Cryptoclaims-
Unless explicitly authorized by the game host in their opening rules section, cryptoclaims are forbidden.
-Out-of-game Promises-
Players may not use out-of-game promises (example: I swear on my grandmother's life, I bet you my entire collection of magic cards, etc.) in an effort to influence other players.
-Multiple Players On One Account
"Hydra" accounts - multiple people playing and posting as one player with shared access to the "gimmick" account, are not allowed unless they have prior approval from the specific game host. Please do not do this on your own.
-Traitor/Alignment Switching Roles
Game hosts are strongly encouraged to be extraordinarily careful if they seek to include a traitor role in their designs. These roles are notorious for causing games to implode, for creating fairness concerns, and for the challenge they pose to the town's behavioral analysis. (See Discussion in Council Thread, Post 3351, onwards.)
Mafia is a game, we’re here to have fun. Please be respectful of the other people involved in the game. Sometimes emotions run high and we get caught up in the moment. That is not an excuse for flaming or poor sportsmanship.
Flaming is a hostile verbal attack directed at another person or group of people. Trolling is the act of deliberately provoking a hostile reaction from other users. These actions will not be tolerated. Additionally, harassing and flaming someone via PMs may trigger more severe offenses, up to and including a suspension.
We do not recognize excuses such as "he flamed me first!"; if you feel attacked by other members, report the post and let moderators handle it rather than flame back. Similarly, if you feel that someone is trolling, just report the post/thread. Calling someone a troll also amounts to flaming/trolling.
The rule of thumb is to criticize the idea, not the person. You may think a deck is bad, and you may say so (though make it constructive), but a deck being bad doesn't make the poster an idiot. Be respectful.
Responding to other people with unwarranted hostility, picking fights and in general being a jerk to other members is also grounds for moderation. Remember, it is everyone's job to be friendly and civilized, and maintain other users' good forum experience. We want people to get along.
Even though Mafia involves attacking other players, flaming is still not allowed. Please refrain from personal insults, especially personal insults coupled with profanity. Attacking another user's play (e.g. "That was an incredibly stupid vote") is acceptable.
Also, remember that image leeching is not allowed on MTGSalvation.
Image leeching is hot linking to an image (using [img] tags) that is NOT hosted on:
MTGSalvation.com (including anything starting media-dominaria.cursecdn.com)
MagicCards.info
Your own webhosting
An image uploading site like Facebook, ImageShack.us or Photobucket.com
A site that has given you express permission to hotlink
We HIGHLY suggest that all Rumor Mill posts attach images to the posts using the forums' own software. We have had cases in the past where WoTC's website was down and images were unavailable, and where Photobucket/personal image sites removed high traffic images.
If you are unsure whether a site is considered a photo hosting website, the best thing to do is upload them to MTG Salvation or your own photo hosting website account. Alternatively, you can ask a site moderator.
While profanity itself is not against the forum rules, and you are free to include profanity in your posts as appropriate, certain words are automatically censored by forum software. Do not attempt to evade the censor. Self-censoring, any attempt to 'cheat' a word past the censor, or attempting to clarify what a censored word is, are all considered censor evasion. If you're going to swear, just swear.
While I don't care about cursing, I will report, replace, and/or modkill you for derogatory content, in particular, slurs, in relation to another user or person, at my own reasonable discretion.
#3: Keep the out-of-game separate from the in-game. This is a modkillable offense.
DO NOT talk about this game outside of this thread and outside communication given to you in your role PM or approved by me. Please attempt to copy me in as appropriate on out-of-game messages sent to other players. It is a good idea to ask permission before discussing the game with anyone outside the game, because they can no longer replace into the game once any meaningful discussion takes place.
DO NOT directly quote or screenshot your role PM or any private communications when posting in the main game thread. This includes mason chats and scum chats. Pretending to break this rule is the same as actually breaking it. Putting words or phrases in quotation marks when discussing private communications in-thread is also a violation of this rule. Please paraphrase - if you are in doubt, ask me before posting!
DO NOT bring up rule-breaking in thread. If you feel that someone is breaking the rules, bring it up with the game host and appropriate mods or council members only. Accusing someone of rulebreaking in thread or in game-related communications that involve multiple people other than the host will be grounds for a modkill.
When posting in a mafia game, please do not use angleshooting or out-of-game knowledge, to the best of your ability. This means do not discuss the timing, reasons, or order of substitutions and modkills, do not discuss the timing or phrasing of role PMs, do not make alignment bets with out of game consequences, and do not use “trust tells” or similar. This list is not exhaustive. Providing direct proof (e.g. picture of yourself at an out-of-game activity, screenshot of out-of-game notes) of an out-of-game context in thread is another form of angleshooting.
#4: By confirming that you have received your Role PM you also confirm that you have read it.
Not reading your Role PM is a form of cheating. I consider there to only be one warning for this, for life. If I know that a player knows that they must read their role PM but chooses not to do so, this rule and related consequences will be enforced with great prejudice.
#5: DO NOT edit, delete, or thank posts. Even if it’s an accidental double post. This is a modkillable offense.
#6: No funny business. DO NOT use invisible text, cryptography, tiny writing, hidden messages, acronym/alphabet claims, trust tells, lynching for reasons outside of perceived alignment, or similar. DO NOT post after you are dead. DO NOT post if you are not a player. This is a modkillable offense.
#7: Post game-related content as required by the game-specific inactivity rules. LET'S MAKE THIS A REPLACEMENT-FREE GAME, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
If you have not maintained minimum posting requirements, you will be prodded. Failing to respond to the prod within 24 hours will lead to your replacement or modkill. Content is, of course, subjective, but “Posting to avoid prod,” “catching up,” or similar short not-really-game-related posts are obviously not content. If you need to be absent for an extended period of time please post “V/LA until [Date]” in bold on its own line in the thread or contact me directly so that I and the other players know when you’ll be back. You do not need to explain your reasons for being absent in thread. If you will be gone for more than a full round, you should consider requesting replacement.
#8: Do not spam the thread.
While I will not enforce a strict posting maximum, mafia subforum rules include a limit of about five posts in a row. The site moderators will enforce this, not me. While I may attempt to waive the posting restriction under certain circumstances by talking to said site moderators, if I myself feel that you're posting too much in a row (more than five posts in a row for any reason is generally excessive), action may be taken ranging from a warning to eventual replacement/modkill. That said, I do not usually consider simple edits by way of double posting in this context, unless it is egregious.
#9: I make no promises about public answers to any question. If you have a question about your role or a rules interaction, please communicate with me privately. If you do choose to tag a host in the thread, that host may ignore you.
I will be particularly unlikely to answer questions posed to me in the game thread other than questions about vote counts or deadlines. If you raise a question in a private message that needs addressing to the entire game (regarding a special rule or similar), I will respond as I feel is appropriate.
#10: Once a lynch is reached, votes are considered locked in. Votes and unvotes made after that will not be counted. (This is known as the Twilight phase.)
#11: If deadline is reached and no player fulfills the requirements to be lynched, the day ends with no lynch.
#12: Make your votes clear to the host. BOLD your votes and place them on a separate line. If your vote is not counted, please contact the host(s).
Unbolded votes will not reliably be counted, nor will votes in the middle of a huge wall of text. Unvoting is not required.
#13: Mafia team players may submit actions for other Mafia team players if the other Mafia team player has not submitted an action. However, if the other Mafia team player ever submits an action, their fellow Mafia team players cannot change what that Mafia team player submitted.
#14: DO NOT POST IN THE THREAD DURING THE NIGHT PHASE, UNLESS YOUR ROLE SAYS OTHERWISE.
#15: If there is no lynch for a Day, followed by no kill for a Night, followed by no lynch once more for a second Day, then at host discretion, a random town player may become the lynch for the second day. This rule exists to prevent perpetual MyLO.
TL;DR: Be excellent to each other, don't be inactive, ask me questions in private when possible, don’t edit or delete posts, no funny business involving cryptography, etc. and... have fun, that’s the whole point.
Setup
At the start of the game, there are 5 Town players and 2 Mafia players.
Each player is Vanilla. At the beginning of the game, as part of each player's role PM, that player will receive one of the token items listed below, associated with a 1-shot role. The list of tokens is as follows:
1-shot Item Thief - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Take an item from that player. You will always take an Envelope before Bread, and Bread before a role.
1-shot Commuterizer - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Remove that player from the game for the duration of the Night phase. That player cannot target or be targeted by actions. You gain a chat with that player as long as they are removed from the game.
1-shot Tracker - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Learn who that player targets that Night.
1-shot Doctor - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Protect that player from Kills that Night.
1-shot Claim Vigilante - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. You may submit a post or posts that player made that you believe indicate that player's role. If you are correct, you kill that player.
1-shot Bus Driver - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target two other players. Switch all actions that target one of those players with all actions that target the other player. A Tracker targeting one of those players will learn that they are receiving results on the other player. A Claim Vigilante targeting one of those players will be asked to submit a post or posts made by the other player. Any other roles in this setup will not learn at the time that their ability was redirected.
1-shot Bread Baker - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Give that player a Loaf of Bread. A Loaf of Bread is an item with the following actions:
"Eat Me" - Once per game, as a Night action, you may eat this bread. The bread will cease to exist.
1-shot Envelope Inventor - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Give that player an Envelope. An Envelope is an item with the following actions:
1-shot Write - Once per game, as a Night action, you may target another player. Write a 280-or-fewer character message on the inside of this Envelope, then seal the Envelope and pass it to that player.
2-shot Read - Twice per game, as a Night action, you may read the Envelope. The first time the Envelope is read, you must target another player. The envelope is passed to that player. The second time the Envelope is read, it ceases to exist, having crumbled into dust.
The Mafia team receives the unused role as a fake claim.
Game-Specific Notes:
The Mafia team members may submit the factional nightkill and exactly one action in the same Night. However, they may only submit one action. They may not, for example, read the Envelope AND track another player in the same Night.
Mafia share a pool of their tokens.
The game will be majority lynch during the day only.
If the game is in LyLO or MyLO, votes will be locked when made.
Lynch Deadlines will be 5 days. There will then be a Twilight period of 0-12 hours. The Lynch Deadline applies whether or not any of the hosts are there to post the final votecount.
Action Submission Deadlines will be 24 hours. There will then be an Action Handling period of 24 hours. The Action Submission Deadline applies whether or not any of the hosts have confirmed your actions as locked. If all players who can submit an action or chat during the Night vote to end the Night early, the Night may end early.
Players are expected to post content (judged relatively leniently on a case-by-case basis) during the Day at least 5 times in the first 48 hours, at least 10 times in the first 96 hours, and at least 13 times per Day phase. If someone is very close to these numbers, I am more likely to keep a closer eye on them. Be active, please!
Mafia will have nightchat and daychat.
You will have 1 free prod over the course of the game. If you are in the top 50% of posters when 50% of the players have been eliminated, you will gain another free prod. If all of your free prods have been used up, you will be replaced or modkilled at host discretion.
Token Resistance (/in, /join, or Join: {name}):
Lastwhisper
shadowlancerx
Rhand
tomsloger
Killjoy
SunglassesCoolPizzaGuy
grapefruit21
Bluffing to a Win (/replace, /sub, or Replace: {name}):
Logic340
The Audience Goes Wild (/spectate, /spec, or Spectate: {name}):
Flip a coin. When it's in the air, you'll know which side you're hoping for.
Day 1 Lynch Deadline will be 10 AM MST on Saturday, February 29th, whether or not the host is around. It will then be twilight until the host is conscious and able to officially end the Day.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. *draws light saber*
To your other post, yeah, RVS is fine, but the number of micro games that a lynch has happened with at least one RVS Vote is higher than it should be.
What’s your Mafia experience?
I know the game. Been playing the better part of a decade at other places (Irl and forum, and a little bit of cry wolf when that movie came out) I decided to check this place out.
My behavior analysis is so-so and I sometimes get some wild reads but I wanna try and stay calm and collected.
That being said, what is yours?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing SGCP
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Thoughts on Pizza (the player, cause obviously the food is delightful)?
Question: Why do you
A: care about his opinion on me.
B: Only want his opinion on me?
After shadow answers, can you talk about why it's scummy for him to do this? I literally do this kind of thought all the time.
I never said it was scummy.
vote killjoy
You implied it was scummy. Just because you didn't explicitly say it doesn't mean it's not there.
Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said it was scummy. You saying I implied it is creating a false narrative.
I just asked him the reasoning behind his questioning.
You saying that I thought it was scummy is actually scummy. It paints me as a bad guy if shadowlancerx flips town. Which if you flip scum, kind of confirms him as town.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing SGCP
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
There is no best ice cream flavor. Best Ben and Jerry's is cookie dough. Best Edy's is their seasonal apple pie. Bryer's Vanilla Bean is there best. There is a local place that has a pistachio with actual pistachio paste through it that's for my money the best in the city.
After shadow answers, can you talk about why it's scummy for him to do this? I literally do this kind of thought all the time.
I never said it was scummy.
vote killjoy
You implied it was scummy. Just because you didn't explicitly say it doesn't mean it's not there.
Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said it was scummy. You saying I implied it is creating a false narrative.
I just asked him the reasoning behind his questioning.
You saying that I thought it was scummy is actually scummy. It paints me as a bad guy if shadowlancerx flips town. Which if you flip scum, kind of confirms him as town.
The tone of your questions imply that you think the two parts you're asking about are scummy.
... Do you not know what imply means? Serious, nonjudgmental question.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
After shadow answers, can you talk about why it's scummy for him to do this? I literally do this kind of thought all the time.
I never said it was scummy.
vote killjoy
You implied it was scummy. Just because you didn't explicitly say it doesn't mean it's not there.
Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said it was scummy. You saying I implied it is creating a false narrative.
I just asked him the reasoning behind his questioning.
You saying that I thought it was scummy is actually scummy. It paints me as a bad guy if shadowlancerx flips town. Which if you flip scum, kind of confirms him as town.
The tone of your questions imply that you think the two parts you're asking about are scummy.
... Do you not know what imply means? Serious, nonjudgmental question.
* im·ply
verb
strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).
"the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge"
synonyms: implicit, indirect, hinted, suggested, insinuated, deducible, inferred, understood; More
(of a fact or occurrence) suggest (something) as a logical consequence.
"the forecasted traffic increase implied more roads and more air pollution"
synonyms: involve, entail;
Yes I do.
Anyway I’m not going to argue semantics with you. I didn’t say what he was asking was scummy, you did.And I wasn’t implying it was scummy. You are
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Thank you for choosing SGCP
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
So while we're waiting for Rhand's answers to kick off the chain reaction of answers I'm going to say that KJ assuming Sunglasses' question was implying scumminess was fair. And Sunglasses initially pushing back was fair because it doesn't but is a formulation that often leads to accusations, but carefully avoids levelling any.
That said I think his pushback was out of proportion and overly defensive.
Idk about the stuff in the parenthesis
but I agree he was overly aggressive, almost drowning out Killjoy
very little understanding
and then when Killjoy responded, they just brought unneeded sarcasm
I'll keep my vote on Killjoy
I want to see how he responds
so maybe I can understand his mindset here
Idk about the stuff in the parenthesis
but I agree he was overly aggressive, almost drowning out Killjoy
very little understanding
and then when Killjoy responded, they just brought unneeded sarcasm
I'll keep my vote on Killjoy
I want to see how he responds
so maybe I can understand his mindset here
Both sides over reacted but I score it as Sunglasses over reacting more. The snap vote over it feels wrong to me. If he was trying to perform a "gotcha" why get bogged down arguing the semantics rather than actually say something like "I carefully didn't say I thought the question was scummy, to see if anyone jumped to conclusions and ran with what I started". Maybe I'm placing the bar of towniness too high, but it feels like a attempt to pull a classic StinkyJoeTerry style scum slip but the tone isn't right for that.
He's arguing with KJ like I do when I'm in a tunnel debating someone, not like when players tend to do when they announce they caught scum.
All those words are bad, but the gist of it is that he didn't react like someone who thinks he caught scum in a carefully laid trap. And if be didn't attempt to lay a reaction trap by formulating his questions that way then his reaction is even more out of proportion because it's nigh impossible to not read scepticism into his tone there.
If he was trying to perform a "gotcha" why get bogged down arguing the semantics rather than actually say something like "I carefully didn't say I thought the question was scummy, to see if anyone jumped to conclusions and ran with what I started".
why does it have to be pre-planned?
He's arguing with KJ like I do when I'm in a tunnel debating someone, not like when players tend to do when they announce they caught scum.
ok?
like He can be a wolf but I think you assuming his thought process here, again, why does it have to be pre-planned to mean anything? How was this carefully laid? he is just calling out something he noticed, which was Killjoy asking him why he thought it was wolfy, when he never really said that? Like we can argue interpretations all day, but it's not going to get us anywhere I think
also, I really wish I could like really "feel" your posts, cause that disingenuous undertone is strong with you yet again
I think you are stretching this as much as Pizza
and I don't really believe either of you currently
anyways, this was a good opener
It doesn't have to be pre planned but that format of the initial question is so formulated that either he has to be intending to imply that Shadow is scum or a reaction test. I don't see anyway he asked Shadow that question in that manner without their being an inkling in his head that it would make it look like he was suspicious of Shadow even if he wasn't committing to a scum read.
And I absolutely am assuming his thought process. I'm trying to make assumptions for what I'd be thinking when making that post, what he could be thinking as town, and what he could be thinking as scum.
As for my tone? I don't know. I think that's a you problem.
Do this exercise for me Wisp. What mindset would you have after making that post to shadow and how would you react? Now how would you expect a random townie to react after making it? And how about a random wolf? Think about what you'd be trying to gain by making that post as each.
Those two votes back to back are a little suspicious. But I don’t see a scum team being that bold. Is shadowlancerx taking an easy wagon to get a mislynch in?
That was a pretty lazy vote IMO and shows very little of his own thinking. In fact he just “same”’d grapefruit adding that I was “overly cautious”
I think looking out for a quick lynch day one is a very town thing to do.
You calling that suspicious IS scummy. It throws unnecessary doubt my direction and it subverts my intentions of not wanting to have a day one quick lynch.
Shadowlancerx:
A: Could the same be said about the fact you didn’t even put a vote down your
B: What about that decision to not keep an rvs vote due to a small lynch threshold screams “overly cautious”? emphasis on the overly
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing SGCP
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
So I spent today at work trying to figure out where the miscommunication was between me and Sunglasses. That whole conversation felt like he felt he was right, but he couldn't be because what I was saying was contradicting him.
But I realized something: I made a jump in logic that was incorrect.
I saw those questions, and he was asking shadow about something he thought was odd. I jumped from odd to scummy, and that's where that came from.
So there's some merit to his reaction. It might have been premature, but I'm not ready to make the jump to that being alignment indicative for Pizza. Partially because that wagon that sprouted up on him has my attention.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I agree that it's possible to have asked that question without accusing shadow of being scummy, but the format of asking makes it clear he was fishing for something and at least suspicious.
What's bothering me is the gap in mindset. If he was trying to "gotcha" the reaction is wrong (as is the unvote). And if he was getting defensive over the slim difference between an accusation and pointed curiosity the response was out of proportion in a way that projects guilt.
It's not impossible for town to react that way to the semantic difference and accusation by any means but it's less likely. And I think as town he would be more likely to have no doubled down on the semantic argument and instead taken the off ramp of "I wasn't accusing of scumminess but I was suspicious and wanted reasoning because it could be scummy with the wrong answer."
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A Mafia game created by Osieorb18.
Reviewed by DV, Jackrito, Silvercrys, the worst.
#1: Follow the spirit of these rules in addition to the letter.
If you try to cheat the game or the game rules in any manner, usually it will be discovered. As of the writing of this rule, I only have one offense for which I would blacklist a player. That offense is intentionally and knowingly cheating. If I catch you intentionally and knowingly cheating, not only will you be immediately modkilled, not only will I be extremely likely to not allow you in any games I run in the future, but I will be inclined to do everything in my power to ensure that you do not participate in any other games on this site or in any other community in which I play Mafia as a publicly-broadcasted cheater.
If you believe that you have found a mistake or loophole in these rules, please discuss it with me before posting.
#2: Have fun, be respectful towards the other people involved in the game, and follow the normal forum rules. This is a game, which we're playing for fun. Expect a low tolerance for toxicity.
Mafia is a game, we’re here to have fun. Please be respectful of the other people involved in the game. Sometimes emotions run high and we get caught up in the moment. That is not an excuse for flaming or poor sportsmanship.
Also, remember that image leeching is not allowed on MTGSalvation.
While profanity itself is not against the forum rules, and you are free to include profanity in your posts as appropriate, certain words are automatically censored by forum software. Do not attempt to evade the censor. Self-censoring, any attempt to 'cheat' a word past the censor, or attempting to clarify what a censored word is, are all considered censor evasion. If you're going to swear, just swear.
While I don't care about cursing, I will report, replace, and/or modkill you for derogatory content, in particular, slurs, in relation to another user or person, at my own reasonable discretion.
#3: Keep the out-of-game separate from the in-game. This is a modkillable offense.
#4: By confirming that you have received your Role PM you also confirm that you have read it.
#5: DO NOT edit, delete, or thank posts. Even if it’s an accidental double post. This is a modkillable offense.
#6: No funny business. DO NOT use invisible text, cryptography, tiny writing, hidden messages, acronym/alphabet claims, trust tells, lynching for reasons outside of perceived alignment, or similar. DO NOT post after you are dead. DO NOT post if you are not a player. This is a modkillable offense.
#7: Post game-related content as required by the game-specific inactivity rules. LET'S MAKE THIS A REPLACEMENT-FREE GAME, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
#8: Do not spam the thread.
#9: I make no promises about public answers to any question. If you have a question about your role or a rules interaction, please communicate with me privately. If you do choose to tag a host in the thread, that host may ignore you.
#10: Once a lynch is reached, votes are considered locked in. Votes and unvotes made after that will not be counted. (This is known as the Twilight phase.)
#11: If deadline is reached and no player fulfills the requirements to be lynched, the day ends with no lynch.
#12: Make your votes clear to the host. BOLD your votes and place them on a separate line. If your vote is not counted, please contact the host(s).
#13: Mafia team players may submit actions for other Mafia team players if the other Mafia team player has not submitted an action. However, if the other Mafia team player ever submits an action, their fellow Mafia team players cannot change what that Mafia team player submitted.
#14: DO NOT POST IN THE THREAD DURING THE NIGHT PHASE, UNLESS YOUR ROLE SAYS OTHERWISE.
#15: If there is no lynch for a Day, followed by no kill for a Night, followed by no lynch once more for a second Day, then at host discretion, a random town player may become the lynch for the second day. This rule exists to prevent perpetual MyLO.
TL;DR: Be excellent to each other, don't be inactive, ask me questions in private when possible, don’t edit or delete posts, no funny business involving cryptography, etc. and... have fun, that’s the whole point.
Token Resistance (/in, /join, or Join: {name}):
Bluffing to a Win (/replace, /sub, or Replace: {name}):
The Audience Goes Wild (/spectate, /spec, or Spectate: {name}):
7/7 players have confirmed having read their role.
The game will start when both of those fractions equal 7/7.
Keep in mind that when you enter the hosting discord, everything will be blank at first.
Day 1 Lynch Deadline will be 10 AM MST on Saturday, February 29th, whether or not the host is around. It will then be twilight until the host is conscious and able to officially end the Day.
With 7 players in the game, it takes 4 to lynch.
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StaffOnly scum think the morning is good.
vote shadowlancerx
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
unvote shadowlancerx
Forgot this was a mini. I take it Rvs votes should be held to a minimum?
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
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StaffTo your other post, yeah, RVS is fine, but the number of micro games that a lynch has happened with at least one RVS Vote is higher than it should be.
What’s your Mafia experience?
I know the game. Been playing the better part of a decade at other places (Irl and forum, and a little bit of cry wolf when that movie came out) I decided to check this place out.
My behavior analysis is so-so and I sometimes get some wild reads but I wanna try and stay calm and collected.
That being said, what is yours?
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
SCPG maybe scum for not having sunglasses nor a guy in his avatar.
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StaffI do actually. It’s in my back-ups
*twiddles thumbs* so.
Who’s scum?
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
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StaffThoughts on Pizza (the player, cause obviously the food is delightful)?
Question: Why do you
A: care about his opinion on me.
B: Only want his opinion on me?
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
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StaffIll never know though
To start off, what's your favorite flavor of ice cream, if you answer this wrong, you are a wolf
I never said it was scummy.
vote killjoy
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
vote: Killjoy
What's your favorite ice cream flavor?
I thought I answered that, didn’t go through.
Mint Chocolate Chip!
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
You seem like a character.
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
Are you putting words in my mouth? I never said it was scummy. You saying I implied it is creating a false narrative.
I just asked him the reasoning behind his questioning.
You saying that I thought it was scummy is actually scummy. It paints me as a bad guy if shadowlancerx flips town. Which if you flip scum, kind of confirms him as town.
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
... Do you not know what imply means? Serious, nonjudgmental question.
* im·ply
verb
strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).
"the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge"
synonyms: implicit, indirect, hinted, suggested, insinuated, deducible, inferred, understood; More
(of a fact or occurrence) suggest (something) as a logical consequence.
"the forecasted traffic increase implied more roads and more air pollution"
synonyms: involve, entail;
Yes I do.
Anyway I’m not going to argue semantics with you. I didn’t say what he was asking was scummy, you did.And I wasn’t implying it was scummy. You are
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
That said I think his pushback was out of proportion and overly defensive.
Vote: Sunglasses
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StaffVote Sunglasses
(His over the top show of being cautious upon entering the thread was not a good look to start.)
you guys are no fun
but I agree he was overly aggressive, almost drowning out Killjoy
very little understanding
and then when Killjoy responded, they just brought unneeded sarcasm
I'll keep my vote on Killjoy
I want to see how he responds
so maybe I can understand his mindset here
Both sides over reacted but I score it as Sunglasses over reacting more. The snap vote over it feels wrong to me. If he was trying to perform a "gotcha" why get bogged down arguing the semantics rather than actually say something like "I carefully didn't say I thought the question was scummy, to see if anyone jumped to conclusions and ran with what I started". Maybe I'm placing the bar of towniness too high, but it feels like a attempt to pull a classic StinkyJoeTerry style scum slip but the tone isn't right for that.
He's arguing with KJ like I do when I'm in a tunnel debating someone, not like when players tend to do when they announce they caught scum.
All those words are bad, but the gist of it is that he didn't react like someone who thinks he caught scum in a carefully laid trap. And if be didn't attempt to lay a reaction trap by formulating his questions that way then his reaction is even more out of proportion because it's nigh impossible to not read scepticism into his tone there.
why does it have to be pre-planned?
ok?
like He can be a wolf but I think you assuming his thought process here, again, why does it have to be pre-planned to mean anything? How was this carefully laid? he is just calling out something he noticed, which was Killjoy asking him why he thought it was wolfy, when he never really said that? Like we can argue interpretations all day, but it's not going to get us anywhere I think
also, I really wish I could like really "feel" your posts, cause that disingenuous undertone is strong with you yet again
I think you are stretching this as much as Pizza
and I don't really believe either of you currently
anyways, this was a good opener
And I absolutely am assuming his thought process. I'm trying to make assumptions for what I'd be thinking when making that post, what he could be thinking as town, and what he could be thinking as scum.
As for my tone? I don't know. I think that's a you problem.
but I dont feel like using my brain any more right now, so maybe another time
unvote
Those two votes back to back are a little suspicious. But I don’t see a scum team being that bold. Is shadowlancerx taking an easy wagon to get a mislynch in?
That was a pretty lazy vote IMO and shows very little of his own thinking. In fact he just “same”’d grapefruit adding that I was “overly cautious”
I think looking out for a quick lynch day one is a very town thing to do.
You calling that suspicious IS scummy. It throws unnecessary doubt my direction and it subverts my intentions of not wanting to have a day one quick lynch.
Shadowlancerx:
A: Could the same be said about the fact you didn’t even put a vote down your
B: What about that decision to not keep an rvs vote due to a small lynch threshold screams “overly cautious”? emphasis on the overly
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
Bolded here is you actually agreeing that my caution is warranted due to lunches happening with AT LEAST one RVS vote.
Not the best choice, but a choice nonetheless.
But I realized something: I made a jump in logic that was incorrect.
I saw those questions, and he was asking shadow about something he thought was odd. I jumped from odd to scummy, and that's where that came from.
So there's some merit to his reaction. It might have been premature, but I'm not ready to make the jump to that being alignment indicative for Pizza. Partially because that wagon that sprouted up on him has my attention.
@Shadow: What do you think of Pizza's #44?
What's bothering me is the gap in mindset. If he was trying to "gotcha" the reaction is wrong (as is the unvote). And if he was getting defensive over the slim difference between an accusation and pointed curiosity the response was out of proportion in a way that projects guilt.
It's not impossible for town to react that way to the semantic difference and accusation by any means but it's less likely. And I think as town he would be more likely to have no doubled down on the semantic argument and instead taken the off ramp of "I wasn't accusing of scumminess but I was suspicious and wanted reasoning because it could be scummy with the wrong answer."
@Last: BTW: I wasn't being sarcastic. I literally wasn't sure where this was coming from.