Heres a selection of kj telling people to be worse at mafia:
<not actually quoting here but a couple posts saying why we cant solve for neighborhoods/prisoncells>
And yeah, we aren't gonna solve anything to any degree of certainty with setup analysis.
What do you think of Zionite's alignment independent of Tom?
So, with specific regards to tom's "excitedly premature" comment... I felt it jumped past the most obvious motives for Zionite's early posts without fully eliminating them. It felt... also premature. I'll let you know if this changes as I'm still on page 4 rn.
I looked over Zionite's games and he's correct, that behavior isn't typical. Which makes his initial bloodthirst potentially a thing (on page 4).
Scum, probably. I said earlier that I thought that you jumped past the obvious conclusion with Zionite re: excitedly premature but before jumping to that meaning you're scum I wanted to see if I could figure out a read on Zionite.
Tom: Are you sure tubba is town? He's not... fluffing as much as he usually does. I seem to recall needing to pull teeth to get reads out of him at one point.
Hey if he's being proactive now good for him. I just want to dig into that since it's a difference to see if the reason is just a change in play or if there's an alignment reason for it.
Tubba: Still exploring whether or not it's a Thing, but he's less fluffy than I remember him being, which could mean he's more agenday. He also feels... too confident/pushy on me, so there's that.
Grape: There's a few things I dislike about Grape, and few things I like. I dislike that his read on Zionite is linked so closely to tom's "premature" read on him. I also dislike that he basically is sheeping tom onto me, though he says he has reasons (he's gonna post them later, will evaulate a bit more then). His reads are a bit too fluid for my tastes as well, they don't feel like they flow naturally. There's a bit of redemption in the spoiler'd portion of 309, which does feel natural. I also feel like the way he's reading Jack is weird in a way that doesn't necessarily feel malicious. Regardless, this is my best lead, and I wanna solve here first.
thats shade on me that its scummy that i looked deeper, shade on grape for taking other peoples reads into account, shade at tubba for being proactive.
Theres a bit more about axel being aggressive and kcc... evolving?
But those are the most concrete.
This also doesnt require any meta, but im giving some anyway.
Because its such a stark contrast to the way kj has been playing as town, and it kinda backdoor illustrates the point about KJs process stopping short all game.
These 3 reads, especially tubba, are an antithesis to KJs self improvement kick
Ok so. I looked at some of tubbas games and I think I'm misremembering. I could have sworn his play style was more "sit back, meme a bit, occasionally all questions, then come in later to solve. The games I looked at in which he was town show not that. He's naturally a lot more proactive than I remember him being.
With that in mind, his approach to me has been decent.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Slothful
all I know buddy is that, Killjoy still does not feel like a wolf here
in a wolf!Killjoy world, he has a weak team that isnt even willing to defend him
or he built up as the counter train to Zion?
which honestly IDK if even Zion is a wolf
but like if this was EoD, i'd probably vote Zion?
Hm. So how serious is your tom vote then? And how are your reading him?
So. Had a thought. Tom's unending exuberance to lynch me might be a requirement of his role.
I think a role exists that has to lynch a specific person and goes home. I know it's in Town of Salem. Executioner it's called there.
Which would be why he's not entertaining ANY other options here. He's trying to win.
Is this a post that a town!KJ makes?
I actually don't see how a scum!KJ does it, it's so random that I would think scum wouldn't even bother trying, or draw attention to them as much as bringing it up would.
I was a bit taken aback by the out-of-*******-nowhere-ness of this proposal, especially as I can find no reason for it to even be considered.
Part of me actually wonders if Killjoy has a role similar to this (if not this exact same role), which is where he got the idea.
@sloth
Idk how serious I am in regards to Tom
but I hate how he is handling Killjoy
Personally I know wolf!tom could easily pull this kind of funeral service on town!killjoy
but I am just like, "Why?"
so ya, Idk still
I will reread later and see what I conclude in terms of people I would vote today
Ok starting with KJs reaction to pressure, because thats not meta and <incoherent mumbling>
Tom, you realize my entire personality isn't entirely "crotchety buzzkill", right?
A good portion is stupid jokes.
I think if tom is scum he accidently revealed that the scum have daychat. He thinks I should know he's scumreading me during the Day due ot the notes he sent to his cellmates.
I'm gonna finish catching up before finalizing some of my reads though, see what transpires there.
I keep feeling like KCC should know I'm town by now. I'm a little surprised she's taking the "KJ is scum" line as scum again, but I guess she is.
The bolded. He's saying if grape/terraine were scum, they would have told me somehow. In Daychat.
Also acting differently =/= acting scummy.
IDK how you read me. But you always seem to come to the conclusion quickly.
@Vaimes: Wait, how are you even scumreading me? 2 days ago I was in your active towncore. Where did that read go?
Sorry, work's been hectic. I have two days off now so I'm catching up today.
What do you think of tom?
Well I'll go check that now. brb
So I only see 3 games. Game of Thrones, Playstation Battle Royale, and Prison Block 1.
Game of Thrones had daychat by necessity, I think. The chats were one of the mechanics. I see no link to any chats in PSBR but since tom was scum in that game I'm assuming it did.
PB1 notably did not.
I don't think you can say shadow games for sure have daychat. @tom
Well, who would you say is the scum on my wagon?
Also, do you think tom TMI'd that the scum have daychat?
And this is you painting everything I do as bad without trying to objectively solve me.
Tom's cellmates plz confirm that Tom sent you that message.
ok, so whats kj trying to accomplish here?
>5 posts on the *****ty "gotcha" anout me TMIing that scum have daychat. So important to him that he checks shadow hosted games to find daychat before doing any semblance of solving, though not important enough to click on that scumchat and see they could each send up to 3 messages in it per day
>4 posts saying im wrong but offering no argument other than "nuh uh"
>"hey kcc townread me"
>"hey vaimes werent you townreading me"
>oh finally hes doing something its... confirming i sent the message? Come on my dude the straws dont like being grasped so hard
I agree with these: They're all movements that show potential scum motivation and they show reasons why I'm okay with a KJ lynch if it happens. However, none of them are Smoking Gun evidence, and can conceivably come from town (though yes, that bit about the asking your cellmates is busywork no matter what.)
I understand that this is because the meat of the argument from you comes from the meta read, and that the above is meant to be complimentary to the meta read rather than stand on its own; but I've already talked about why I don't think the meta read is working here.
Speaking of:
As for the specific thing: thats not where kj stops
Now thats the meta. Thats KJs recent change in play.
He didnt actually change his posting style, he actively started seeking out help in solving. From spec chats, from games he was in, whatever. Hes spent the last year just... trying stuff out. See what works. Hes gotten nimble, because he keeps switching his approach and looking at things from fresh angles.
This is the kj that i think is one of the best town players around.
So when he says a shallow thing and then moves on, i couldnt tell you exactly what townkj does next but its ******* SOMETHING
First, the world "nimble" literally means flexible, and the context here is that his style is fluid and changing, which was already stated to be case and I've gone over why this makes your read "bad".
Second, point about the shallow thing, but I've gone back to read the entire interaction in question (flarg, vaimes and KJ), and I'm not seeing what else there WAS to be done there. Admittedly, I don't think like KJ but when I asked you where exactly he would stop, you didn't give an answer, you gave this. So instead: What would you, Tom, would have questioned that KJ didn't? What was the stone that got left unturned?
So when i say stuff like "Im trying to be cognizant that ive been reading this whole game moderately sure kj is scum." its not a show of hesitation, or even hesitation, because i sanity checked myself already on that DAYS ago. And im still <this sure>
Then what were the posts you were AFTER this post where you balked and showed hesitation? There were more than just this one.
So here's one for you Tom. Working off the premise that KJ is indeed scum, wouldn't he know a good deal more about whether scum have daychat or not? The mere act of searching for other games Shadow has hosted should offer you pause. Why would a scum KJ do that?
Do i really have to explain why scum would rather spend their time shading an accuser with busy work?
He even attempted it again by saying im hitman or whatever.
And again, these aren't in addition to solving. Its in place of. First 10 posts after i cased him are mostly about me but not at all about... yknow... my behavior.
Yeah what the hell is with that?
I think we both agree that it was weird as hell, but what do you make of it? Do you really think a scum!KJ would make this claim?
'Cause it sounds like you're saying KJ is super bad at playing scum, if so.
@Slothful
all I know buddy is that, Killjoy still does not feel like a wolf here
in a wolf!Killjoy world, he has a weak team that isnt even willing to defend him
or he built up as the counter train to Zion?
which honestly IDK if even Zion is a wolf
but like if this was EoD, i'd probably vote Zion?
Hm. So how serious is your tom vote then? And how are your reading him?
So. Had a thought. Tom's unending exuberance to lynch me might be a requirement of his role.
I think a role exists that has to lynch a specific person and goes home. I know it's in Town of Salem. Executioner it's called there.
Which would be why he's not entertaining ANY other options here. He's trying to win.
Is this a post that a town!KJ makes?
I actually don't see how a scum!KJ does it, it's so random that I would think scum wouldn't even bother trying, or draw attention to them as much as bringing it up would.
I was a bit taken aback by the out-of-*******-nowhere-ness of this proposal, especially as I can find no reason for it to even be considered.
Part of me actually wonders if Killjoy has a role similar to this (if not this exact same role), which is where he got the idea.
Heres a selection of kj telling people to be worse at mafia:
<not actually quoting here but a couple posts saying why we cant solve for neighborhoods/prisoncells>
And yeah, we aren't gonna solve anything to any degree of certainty with setup analysis.
What do you think of Zionite's alignment independent of Tom?
So, with specific regards to tom's "excitedly premature" comment... I felt it jumped past the most obvious motives for Zionite's early posts without fully eliminating them. It felt... also premature. I'll let you know if this changes as I'm still on page 4 rn.
I looked over Zionite's games and he's correct, that behavior isn't typical. Which makes his initial bloodthirst potentially a thing (on page 4).
Scum, probably. I said earlier that I thought that you jumped past the obvious conclusion with Zionite re: excitedly premature but before jumping to that meaning you're scum I wanted to see if I could figure out a read on Zionite.
Tom: Are you sure tubba is town? He's not... fluffing as much as he usually does. I seem to recall needing to pull teeth to get reads out of him at one point.
Hey if he's being proactive now good for him. I just want to dig into that since it's a difference to see if the reason is just a change in play or if there's an alignment reason for it.
Tubba: Still exploring whether or not it's a Thing, but he's less fluffy than I remember him being, which could mean he's more agenday. He also feels... too confident/pushy on me, so there's that.
Grape: There's a few things I dislike about Grape, and few things I like. I dislike that his read on Zionite is linked so closely to tom's "premature" read on him. I also dislike that he basically is sheeping tom onto me, though he says he has reasons (he's gonna post them later, will evaulate a bit more then). His reads are a bit too fluid for my tastes as well, they don't feel like they flow naturally. There's a bit of redemption in the spoiler'd portion of 309, which does feel natural. I also feel like the way he's reading Jack is weird in a way that doesn't necessarily feel malicious. Regardless, this is my best lead, and I wanna solve here first.
thats shade on me that its scummy that i looked deeper, shade on grape for taking other peoples reads into account, shade at tubba for being proactive.
Theres a bit more about axel being aggressive and kcc... evolving?
But those are the most concrete.
Hm...no. Too reachy.
940 was a good post, but you fizzled out of steam on this one: Shade on you for a comment that didn't seemed to fit and was even a defense on Zi (at least from my perspective, but yeah.) Shade on Grape 'cause he shouldn't just sheep, that's exactly why I'm going after Zi, and has been pointed out on other players, it's a legitimate point of contention. Shade on Tubba because of meta, not proactiveness, and isn't that literally what you're doing?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Look, I don't think I'm going to convince you. You might be tunneling. That's a you problem. But I totally respect it and don't think you're scum at all.
{SNIP Sloth's Dank KCC Evaluation}
So…yeah, I’m still on Zion because I don’t learn my lessons (shut up, Ter). But I can see a world where he and KCC are partners.
What I want to know is…am I just talking nonsense? I wanna hear from people that have played with her.
No nonsense, I think you're totally right. I thought maybe I was crazy or just that out of touch when no one else saw this stuff. I've played with KCC in the before-times.
This is important, so get back to me ASAP:
Has Zion ever used this exact"[SNIP & description]" format when quoting before?
He did not in this game prior to this post.
I'm actually okay with you answering this. If you've posted in this format before, in this or any other game, please link me to the post.
Also, and I'm seriously not trying to harp on you, but how do you take time to lolcat and dismiss my post and then not answer the question directed at you in it?
@zion: What are your thoughts on #829? You commented on posts before and after it, but not on it itself? Seems unlikely that you skipped it and unlikelier still that you had no opinion.
I think you're scum, but I haven't stopped engaging you, and I'm asking these for a reason. Get back to me.
You know what? I'm probably gonna die just by virtue of not being able to outargue Tom.
Everyone: what I need from you is either why your ok with lynching me or a link to the post where you've already said.
Honestly when people say I'm not solvey it makes no sense to me because, like, I'm obviously trying to figure out people's assignments but people seem to be reading into my not... being able to solve the game reliably without flips which is ???.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The purple are people who want to lunch me. Not a tier per se.
KCC is a bit lower now. Gj a bit higher.
You quoted this. Lol
Ok with a fresher mind: Is Grape still your scummiest read?
And by scummiest, I mean bottom, I guess - in the wall post, you're largely noncommittal on him (As you are on anyone on the lower half).
If so, why aren't you trying to solve him?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@sloth
Idk how serious I am in regards to Tom
but I hate how he is handling Killjoy
Personally I know wolf!tom could easily pull this kind of funeral service on town!killjoy
but I am just like, "Why?"
so ya, Idk still
I will reread later and see what I conclude in terms of people I would vote today
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Line I said, there's a role like that in Town of Salem. It's a ftp mafia game online. Feel free to check.
I don't need to, I believe you. My point was that I don't understand why you thought a Town Of Salem role would be relevant in THIS setup. I feel that was really clear in the post.
You know what? I'm probably gonna die just by virtue of not being able to outargue Tom.
Everyone: what I need from you is either why your ok with lynching me or a link to the post where you've already said.
Honestly when people say I'm not solvey it makes no sense to me because, like, I'm obviously trying to figure out people's assignments but people seem to be reading into my not... being able to solve the game reliably without flips which is ???.
So yeah, I'm certainly not singing KJ's praises as Town, but I have problems with how we arrived to this wagon.
If he does end up the lynch, I'm cool with that.
He flips red, I commit to sheeping Tom for the rest of the game.
He flips green, we spitroast Tom on a slow fire.
Not too satisfying, I'm afraid: I don't see you as scum, but I don't see you as Town. Not voting you, but the lynch is fine if it happens, if nothing else for what it means for Tomorrow.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So sloth and flarg are town for tonal purity of various degrees. Vaimes is town for topposting and not being too terrible. Jack showed he was decently likely to be town. Scum Tom probably isn't this bad. I looked the way gj is handling KCC. I feel like Zionite goes either way, but I'm not sure what scum Zion is doing, really. Tubba is not unlikely to be town as well. Rhand might be, but is weakest.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Hm. When you have more time I want you to elaborate on this, but I'm liking the activity.
Re: Town of Salem. Again, I know that. And again: Where do you get the idea that roles such as the ones in Town of Salem would be here? Were there roles like that in the previous one? I'm saying it's a wild jump for no reason I can see.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Somebody talk to me about how the game sits. It seems to me like both KJ and Zionite can’t be town. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now?
If KJ is town I’d look hard at Grape. Grape is on the fringes of the game which is a scummy look for him, and his hop on could be seen as opportunistic fitting in with his cell mate Tom.
If Zion is town I’m staring right at Flarg. He’s discrediting the KJ meta read, and ostensibly pushing a Zionite world, but there’s no real weight to it. I don’t feel like he’s really trying to convince people to join him there, or to actively move off KJ.
That’s true of most slots voting on these two right now, not much effort to move the needle either way.
Somebody talk to me about how the game sits. It seems to me like both KJ and Zionite can’t be town. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now?
If KJ is town I’d look hard at Grape. Grape is on the fringes of the game which is a scummy look for him, and his hop on could be seen as opportunistic fitting in with his cell mate Tom.
If Zion is town I’m staring right at Flarg. He’s discrediting the KJ meta read, and ostensibly pushing a Zionite world, but there’s no real weight to it. I don’t feel like he’s really trying to convince people to join him there, or to actively move off KJ.
That’s true of most slots voting on these two right now, not much effort to move the needle either way.
well I dont know about Zion
but I can tell you with about 99.999999% of my gut and superior analysis that this town!Killjoy
and you expect this to play out how? one of them gets run up right now and day 1 just ends?
like I aint saying that, that isnt possible (one of them being a wolf), but like I just don't see how that statement holds any relevance here
@Flarg
you may not consider it bastard, but its definitely not unique, and I don't believe an anti-fun 3p role is just placed into a game on this site for the hahas
Killjoy is clearing just trying to understand why Tom is doing this
but yes we should stop talking about this
Also, @Last: I now know how you feel. I am so sorry.
meh
life goes on, you know how to stay calm regardless of your alignment at least?
I would be bursting with emotion if I was either alignment over what seems to be such a reach to justify voting you
Somebody talk to me about how the game sits. It seems to me like both KJ and Zionite can’t be town. Otherwise one of them would be dead by now?
If KJ is town I’d look hard at Grape. Grape is on the fringes of the game which is a scummy look for him, and his hop on could be seen as opportunistic fitting in with his cell mate Tom.
If Zion is town I’m staring right at Flarg. He’s discrediting the KJ meta read, and ostensibly pushing a Zionite world, but there’s no real weight to it. I don’t feel like he’s really trying to convince people to join him there, or to actively move off KJ.
That’s true of most slots voting on these two right now, not much effort to move the needle either way.
I'm actually leaning the other way, if Zion is Town I'm ready to conclude KJ is too. This feels like a TvT wagon split where Scum doesn't need to do anything.
Either way, I want to look at the low posters, I think we have multiple Scum there.
@Last
I don’t expect the day to end right now but there’s nothing happening. What does that mean about the game state? Do you think it’s possible for KJ and Zion to be town? Why isn’t anyone trying to push their case? What does that mean for the game state?
Like sell me on Tom, if he’s your scumread why aren’t you pushing it?
@Last
I don’t expect the day to end right now but there’s nothing happening. What does that mean about the game state? Do you think it’s possible for KJ and Zion to be town? Why isn’t anyone trying to push their case? What does that mean for the game state?
Like sell me on Tom, if he’s your scumread why aren’t you pushing it?
possible T/T hard to say at this point because movement doesnt need to happen right now, but the lack of it now is still kind of bothering me
If I was sold on Tom being a wolf I'd push it harder, but no one would follow me anyways given who I am I think
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Look, I don't think I'm going to convince you. You might be tunneling. That's a you problem. But I totally respect it and don't think you're scum at all.
Yea, you probably aren't. Sorry if you're town!
It's not to late to lynch KCC. I think this dual wagon meta is good in a vacuum, but toDay has been an easy ***** show to manipulate and ensure both wagons are town players.
{SNIP Sloth's Dank KCC Evaluation}
So…yeah, I’m still on Zion because I don’t learn my lessons (shut up, Ter). But I can see a world where he and KCC are partners.
What I want to know is…am I just talking nonsense? I wanna hear from people that have played with her.
No nonsense, I think you're totally right. I thought maybe I was crazy or just that out of touch when no one else saw this stuff. I've played with KCC in the before-times.
This is important, so get back to me ASAP:
Has Zion ever used this exact"[SNIP & description]" format when quoting before?
He did not in this game prior to this post.
I'm actually okay with you answering this. If you've posted in this format before, in this or any other game, please link me to the post.
Also, and I'm seriously not trying to harp on you, but how do you take time to lolcat and dismiss my post and then not answer the question directed at you in it?
It's been years to be honest. I won't be able to find you a meta post like that. But I can offer you my thoughts. I was using the preview function and was like "wow no one is going to read this unless I do something to pair it down". So I took the KCC evaluation out because there was a lot of formatting I didn't want to bother with making sure it all worked, but let the link remain if anyone was interested in checking it out. I do think it was a good read.
To be fair, it takes virtually no time or effort to lolcat. I wasn't in the state of mind to be answering questions, and like I've said, I don't think I'll be convincing you until I flip. But let me take a look now.
Quote from Slothful »
@zion: What are your thoughts on #829? You commented on posts before and after it, but not on it itself? Seems unlikely that you skipped it and unlikelier still that you had no opinion.
#829 pretty much told me for sure you're town and you're solving. You have good reasons to believe what you believe in. I agreed with a lot of it, specifically how things should go down if KJ flips town and if Tom is scum it's been a really obvious and terrible argument to push with. Tom is a really good player. If he commits to something like this, he's pretty damn sure. Because the consequences are dire if he's not right, or a scumTom painting a big fat target on himself for whatever reason, or bussing for literally no reason for town cred. Could be as simple as a town v town tunnel.
@zion: What are your thoughts on #829? You commented on posts before and after it, but not on it itself? Seems unlikely that you skipped it and unlikelier still that you had no opinion.
I think you're scum, but I haven't stopped engaging you, and I'm asking these for a reason. Get back to me.
I feel like these interactions aren't going to get me any closer to a town read for you though. But yeah I'm down to give you as much as you need. I'm a bit worried that I'm going to be essentially forced to vote KJ otherwise I'm lynched instead, when it's definitive for me at least one of us is town and possible both of us are town. Makes me very uncomfortable. Not a fan of the dual wagons meta, but I do see the value in it for reads.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Theres a bit more about axel being aggressive and kcc... evolving?
But those are the most concrete.
This also doesnt require any meta, but im giving some anyway.
Because its such a stark contrast to the way kj has been playing as town, and it kinda backdoor illustrates the point about KJs process stopping short all game.
These 3 reads, especially tubba, are an antithesis to KJs self improvement kick
I am keeping my voting on Tom
With that in mind, his approach to me has been decent.
Relates to this:
Re:KJ; What do you make of this: Is this a post that a town!KJ makes?
I actually don't see how a scum!KJ does it, it's so random that I would think scum wouldn't even bother trying, or draw attention to them as much as bringing it up would.
I was a bit taken aback by the out-of-*******-nowhere-ness of this proposal, especially as I can find no reason for it to even be considered.
Part of me actually wonders if Killjoy has a role similar to this (if not this exact same role), which is where he got the idea.
Idk how serious I am in regards to Tom
but I hate how he is handling Killjoy
Personally I know wolf!tom could easily pull this kind of funeral service on town!killjoy
but I am just like, "Why?"
so ya, Idk still
I will reread later and see what I conclude in terms of people I would vote today
I understand that this is because the meat of the argument from you comes from the meta read, and that the above is meant to be complimentary to the meta read rather than stand on its own; but I've already talked about why I don't think the meta read is working here.
Speaking of: First, the world "nimble" literally means flexible, and the context here is that his style is fluid and changing, which was already stated to be case and I've gone over why this makes your read "bad".
Second, point about the shallow thing, but I've gone back to read the entire interaction in question (flarg, vaimes and KJ), and I'm not seeing what else there WAS to be done there. Admittedly, I don't think like KJ but when I asked you where exactly he would stop, you didn't give an answer, you gave this. So instead: What would you, Tom, would have questioned that KJ didn't? What was the stone that got left unturned?
Third, you didn't answer about Flarg and Zion.
Fourth, Then what were the posts you were AFTER this post where you balked and showed hesitation? There were more than just this one.
I think we both agree that it was weird as hell, but what do you make of it? Do you really think a scum!KJ would make this claim?
'Cause it sounds like you're saying KJ is super bad at playing scum, if so.
I hope tomorrow is a better day for me.
Did KJ ever nameclaim?
940 was a good post, but you fizzled out of steam on this one: Shade on you for a comment that didn't seemed to fit and was even a defense on Zi (at least from my perspective, but yeah.) Shade on Grape 'cause he shouldn't just sheep, that's exactly why I'm going after Zi, and has been pointed out on other players, it's a legitimate point of contention. Shade on Tubba because of meta, not proactiveness, and isn't that literally what you're doing?
Noted on the meta.
Still, work with me: I'm actually okay with you answering this. If you've posted in this format before, in this or any other game, please link me to the post.
Also, and I'm seriously not trying to harp on you, but how do you take time to lolcat and dismiss my post and then not answer the question directed at you in it? I think you're scum, but I haven't stopped engaging you, and I'm asking these for a reason. Get back to me.
Everyone: what I need from you is either why your ok with lynching me or a link to the post where you've already said.
Honestly when people say I'm not solvey it makes no sense to me because, like, I'm obviously trying to figure out people's assignments but people seem to be reading into my not... being able to solve the game reliably without flips which is ???.
And by scummiest, I mean bottom, I guess - in the wall post, you're largely noncommittal on him (As you are on anyone on the lower half).
If so, why aren't you trying to solve him?
What does TWTBAW stand for? And is it in regards to Tom or KJ?
No. I don't think any of us have.
No, not until L-2 or closer to deadline.
Here: Not too satisfying, I'm afraid: I don't see you as scum, but I don't see you as Town. Not voting you, but the lynch is fine if it happens, if nothing else for what it means for Tomorrow.
Scum in (KCC/grape/zds/Lazer/I guess last) shrug.
Re: Town of Salem. Again, I know that. And again: Where do you get the idea that roles such as the ones in Town of Salem would be here? Were there roles like that in the previous one? I'm saying it's a wild jump for no reason I can see.
That’s close to bastard.
Yeah IDK if it's a thing. I was just trying to figure out where Tom got his hate boner and I was like "what if that's his wincon?"
I'm a bit weird and suck figuring out setups. So that's where that came from I think.
TP that wins if Player X gets lynched, loses otherwise.
We should kill the lyncher talk though, he's clearly not one and it's just a distraction.
If KJ is town I’d look hard at Grape. Grape is on the fringes of the game which is a scummy look for him, and his hop on could be seen as opportunistic fitting in with his cell mate Tom.
If Zion is town I’m staring right at Flarg. He’s discrediting the KJ meta read, and ostensibly pushing a Zionite world, but there’s no real weight to it. I don’t feel like he’s really trying to convince people to join him there, or to actively move off KJ.
That’s true of most slots voting on these two right now, not much effort to move the needle either way.
well I dont know about Zion
but I can tell you with about 99.999999% of my gut and superior analysis that this town!Killjoy
and you expect this to play out how? one of them gets run up right now and day 1 just ends?
like I aint saying that, that isnt possible (one of them being a wolf), but like I just don't see how that statement holds any relevance here
you may not consider it bastard, but its definitely not unique, and I don't believe an anti-fun 3p role is just placed into a game on this site for the hahas
Killjoy is clearing just trying to understand why Tom is doing this
but yes we should stop talking about this
life goes on, you know how to stay calm regardless of your alignment at least?
I would be bursting with emotion if I was either alignment over what seems to be such a reach to justify voting you
I'm actually leaning the other way, if Zion is Town I'm ready to conclude KJ is too. This feels like a TvT wagon split where Scum doesn't need to do anything.
Either way, I want to look at the low posters, I think we have multiple Scum there.
I don’t expect the day to end right now but there’s nothing happening. What does that mean about the game state? Do you think it’s possible for KJ and Zion to be town? Why isn’t anyone trying to push their case? What does that mean for the game state?
Like sell me on Tom, if he’s your scumread why aren’t you pushing it?
possible T/T hard to say at this point because movement doesnt need to happen right now, but the lack of it now is still kind of bothering me
If I was sold on Tom being a wolf I'd push it harder, but no one would follow me anyways given who I am I think
Is there anyone that wants to lynch me but doesn't wanna lynch Zion? Or the inverse? Those people might be the most interesting.
It's not to late to lynch KCC. I think this dual wagon meta is good in a vacuum, but toDay has been an easy ***** show to manipulate and ensure both wagons are town players.
It's been years to be honest. I won't be able to find you a meta post like that. But I can offer you my thoughts. I was using the preview function and was like "wow no one is going to read this unless I do something to pair it down". So I took the KCC evaluation out because there was a lot of formatting I didn't want to bother with making sure it all worked, but let the link remain if anyone was interested in checking it out. I do think it was a good read.
To be fair, it takes virtually no time or effort to lolcat. I wasn't in the state of mind to be answering questions, and like I've said, I don't think I'll be convincing you until I flip. But let me take a look now.
#829 pretty much told me for sure you're town and you're solving. You have good reasons to believe what you believe in. I agreed with a lot of it, specifically how things should go down if KJ flips town and if Tom is scum it's been a really obvious and terrible argument to push with. Tom is a really good player. If he commits to something like this, he's pretty damn sure. Because the consequences are dire if he's not right, or a scumTom painting a big fat target on himself for whatever reason, or bussing for literally no reason for town cred. Could be as simple as a town v town tunnel.
I feel like these interactions aren't going to get me any closer to a town read for you though. But yeah I'm down to give you as much as you need. I'm a bit worried that I'm going to be essentially forced to vote KJ otherwise I'm lynched instead, when it's definitive for me at least one of us is town and possible both of us are town. Makes me very uncomfortable. Not a fan of the dual wagons meta, but I do see the value in it for reads.