I think what interests me the most, from a weird perspective is how uninteractive he is with YWF. Just kind of feels like there is concencus, and since she wasn't ever town cleared, just town read, stikes me as odd. Jack, he takes a few prods at to almost test it, but ehhh?
His interaction with Flarg worsens for me towards the end. The voting on Rod.
As of right now, I feel like there is 1 wolf in
Kpaca/Rod
Jack/YWF
Maybe ZDS set up the perfect push. My one little annoying thought is for the same thing he is pushing me for: He wolf reads seemingly, but doesn't seem interested in pushing vaimes that hard. Look at his post today towards me vs his push towards Vaimes earlier. I'll find it if I have more time, but it's a small thought. He was definitely hounding him before concencus pressure fell upon Vaimes.
There are answers there. I just tried to pull quotes where his reads exist, and perhaps some progression. Obviously, vaimes has more than what I put there.
I think what interests me the most, from a weird perspective is how uninteractive he is with YWF. Just kind of feels like there is concencus, and since she wasn't ever town cleared, just town read, stikes me as odd.
My read on it for what it matters?
Last time we played together we were both town and I tunneled vaimes. HARD. Into a mislynch I think. I fully admit I struggle like hell to read him and was gun shy to approach it this game. Vaimes wouldn't risk drawing my attention after the Wonka fiasco. Bad combo of uncertainty on my side and caution/opportunity on his.
I think what interests me the most, from a weird perspective is how uninteractive he is with YWF. Just kind of feels like there is concencus, and since she wasn't ever town cleared, just town read, stikes me as odd.
My read on it for what it matters?
Last time we played together we were both town and I tunneled vaimes. HARD. Into a mislynch I think. I fully admit I struggle like hell to read him and was gun shy to approach it this game. Vaimes wouldn't risk drawing my attention after the Wonka fiasco. Bad combo of uncertainty on my side and caution/opportunity on his.
It has nothing to do with how you acted towards him. It's his lack of interaction with you, but your position in his reads that has me bothered.
What about the rest? My split as such feels like the way he floated between Rod/Kpaca was indifferent. It felt like at least 1 in the pile was likely a mislynch, I doubt Vaimes would have been that lackadaisical if they both were wolves.
Ftr, i think "johnny follows tom a lot" is an awful w/w read
Not gonna say its impossible but if we were wolves together it would be a weird waste of energy from johnny.
Not impossible. I just looked at Vaimes in vacuum. I think apart from rereading them, I would want to see Vaimes jumping back and forth before Rhand went down.
I think for sure, Rod/Kpaca aren't w/w. Hence, my pairings. From just the vaimes perspective, he seemed to be poking occasionally at Jack. I personally had/have Jack lower than YMV, but Vaimes is also careful not to spew too many people, so maybe I am looking to deep into it.
Which I also covered in my saying its a bad combo of lack of confidence from me and caution/opportunity from Vaimes. My tunnelathon in the DLP wonka game wouldn't JUST effect my interacting with him. Common sense dictates that you wouldn't draw attention from a town player known for tunneling the crap out of people let alone one who JUST did it to you.
As for the 1 wolf living in those slots. I'm not sure I agree. Who's the final scum then?
Any thoughts on kpaca's MIAness in conjunction with his weird "rhand leading newbie around" insistence and vaimes' silence the crowds self hammer?
I hate him as a mafia player. He is a chronic lurker unless something changed in the last few years. He can be a bit stubborn on reads, but can be scary when he is right.
As for the 1 wolf living in those slots. I'm not sure I agree. Who's the final scum then?
Is 3 scum + a neutral not enough?
gun to my head with just my vaimes analysis and what I have to far, I say you/Rod. I actually don't like how hard you are trying to justify vaimes distance from you, and it's really rubbing me the wrong way.
Who are the final wolves in your pool? HOw does Vaimes flipping change or confirm your world?
Zds i dont think is a wolf with vaimes. Confirms earlier townread.
Ywf still feels pretty town to me. Here and cellblock.
Also never a wolf with kccslot, ~probably not with kpaca either
Jack im realistically super null on. Kinda fits on all teams
GJ... i mean if hes a wolf hes spent substantial time pocketing me. Guess hes down here because i hate when that works...
Not a wolf with kccslot
Flargpaca is just... missing a lot of levels as a slot. Would be weird cell makeup, but ywf's point about yesterdays silencing is a good one.
Kcc/rod slot has been in antispew since day 1. Kcc sod2 still feels like a crumbling wolf.
Rod started pushing things but its almost exclusively omgus.
And the word "almost" in there is basically just me being nice...
Viable teams at, like
Rod/flarg
Rod/jack
Flarg/gj
Flarg/jack
Gj/jack
Gj/ywf
Jack/ywf
Not building with zds at this time
Dont really believe in the ywf ones
From just a worldbuilding standpoint i think flarg and jack have the least going for them. Theyre also super meh.
Maybe id be cool with lynching kpaca over rod today. Dont feel good about either of them being alive if tomorrow is F5, and kpaca does fit on more teams.
He does (therefore?) give less info though. And outside of <things i dont fully understand> i dont think flarg is as <objectively scummy> as kcc
Sorry confused. Vaimes is conf scum. You said theres one wolf lurking in your group of four of me, Kpaca, Rod and Jack. I'm asking who's 3
1 of you/JAck
1 of Rod/Kpaca
Mostly for reasons that I don't think Rod/Kpaca are ever w/w based on Vaimes treatment of them. I suppose it's not impossible you and Jack could be a pair...but KCC/Flarg both came off worse from wear.
Like my cell mates said we discussed our options and came to the choice that GJ has to die today. I'm still not all the way sold on Rod, but at this point I don't think I ever will be, I trust ZDS though and have since the first night so going to trust Rod, because he does as well.
I have no idea where I stand on Flarg slot since it has being a mess for a long time, they are clearly still in the POE, but not something I really want to risk today, Tom is someone I have had a hard time reading since he clearly can play a good game, I keep going backand forth on them and likely will till the end of the game so not going there today.
YWF as being a pretty much universal townread for most of the game and I'm not even sure why anymore. Possible they are scum but I'm just not really feeling it from their slot.
Its hit the point where I need to do a full reread of those that are still alive, since parts of this game have mixed together and Its clear I can't remember how my early reads formed and changed to where they are now. The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Like my cell mates said we discussed our options and came to the choice that GJ has to die today. I'm still not all the way sold on Rod, but at this point I don't think I ever will be, I trust ZDS though and have since the first night so going to trust Rod, because he does as well.
I have no idea where I stand on Flarg slot since it has being a mess for a long time, they are clearly still in the POE, but not something I really want to risk today, Tom is someone I have had a hard time reading since he clearly can play a good game, I keep going backand forth on them and likely will till the end of the game so not going there today.
YWF as being a pretty much universal townread for most of the game and I'm not even sure why anymore. Possible they are scum but I'm just not really feeling it from their slot.
Its hit the point where I need to do a full reread of those that are still alive, since parts of this game have mixed together and Its clear I can't remember how my early reads formed and changed to where they are now. The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Back to the Rod read based on how day 2 went I just can't see Vaimes as scum with Rod espically off the end of day he was far too mad for someone trying to bus a buddy. I said in my cell before but will here that I felt his frustration was more based on a scum annoyed at missing a no lynch then a town missing a lynch, yesterday helps to prove that point.
Like my cell mates said we discussed our options and came to the choice that GJ has to die today. I'm still not all the way sold on Rod, but at this point I don't think I ever will be, I trust ZDS though and have since the first night so going to trust Rod, because he does as well.
I have no idea where I stand on Flarg slot since it has being a mess for a long time, they are clearly still in the POE, but not something I really want to risk today, Tom is someone I have had a hard time reading since he clearly can play a good game, I keep going backand forth on them and likely will till the end of the game so not going there today.
YWF as being a pretty much universal townread for most of the game and I'm not even sure why anymore. Possible they are scum but I'm just not really feeling it from their slot.
Its hit the point where I need to do a full reread of those that are still alive, since parts of this game have mixed together and Its clear I can't remember how my early reads formed and changed to where they are now. The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Why did it make it frustrating? You couldn't have thought in a million years you were going to get shot over mod confirmed townies in the thread, did you? Surely this break in the action gave you time to give me some *****? Why didn't you reread the game, or at least if you were set on me, figuring out who my partner could be?
Also, you had nothing to add yesterday other than oops, that was fast?
1) This turn of events makes me sad :(. ZDS joining a wagon with someone who only wolf reads are OMGUS.
Quote from ZDS »
— Day 3, Johnny could have put Vaimes at -1 but started the Rod wagon instead, killing all momentum the Vaimes wagon had. Day 4, he had no issue with putting Vaimes at -1. (Also, check out the context of his vote in #2894: it's like he voted as a way to prove me wrong.)
2) It was a half joke, of like "your voting with a wolf read. WHAT NOW." Clearly, I didn't take into account that people knew what bussing was Rolleyes
For saying "Flarg/Kpaca was I thought falling hard but 'vig claim' kept it around" (#2894, somewhere near the middle) even though HE kept arguing Flarg should live so the scum would have to deal with him (that sure went well) so HE is one of the driving forces behind Flarg's vig claim keeping him around ;
3) Yes? Are you going to tell me claiming vig is the best move for someone as an sk? I started day 2 with the mindset that claiming vig is such an obvious sk sign, that I thought it was town. Considering day 2, I think is when you had your hard on for Flarg being an SK.
For trying to CFD Rhand, then pushing a massclaim pretty much entirely to get Rhand to claim (if I understood correctly — Johnny's answer to that was evasive), THEN acting all flustered when Rhand did claim. What kind of claim did you expect @Johnny?
4) It's almost like you ignored my answers to your question I gave yesterday. As for what I did expect, I suppose either a tracker/watcher variant, or weird passive ability? It sure as ***** wasn't this crazy shared claim with Flarg. Like seriously dude? What did YOU expect? I also thought there was a serious chance he was a wolf or vanilla town for like the 4th time.
1) For someone who only posts so often and seemingly does a good job of reading, your missing a lot of ***** from your top wolf read.
For his smarmy tone when answering me yesterDay.
Swarmy? I was going for more of a huffish tone. Damn internet ruining my internet tone.
There's also the fact he follows tom like a lapdog, but I don't know what to make of it. It could be a high-risk high-reward strat between two scumbuddies, or Johnny could be "pocketting" tom (a term the gentleman himself keeps repeating throughout the game).
I don't pocket people as either alignment. Not really in my nature.
1) I still like you overall, but this post is actual dog *****. Your one yesterday seemed actually interesting in hunting. This one feels like you're selling.
1) (all three of them) It shouldn't be a surprise Rodemy and I would eventually agree, since we share a cell and I've spent a lot of time defending his slot. Also you've been on my radar for a while as a background blip, but I can't blame you for not knowing. I will grant you one thing, I'm probably missing a lot of ***** from you. I spent most of N3 doing vote and interaction analysis and most of N4 being busy with actual work, so I didn't fully reread you like I did Flarg and Vaimes. 2) You literally avoided the main point just to give a sarcastic answer to the parenthesis. By the way you have no right to say "I wasn't interested in pushing vaimes that hard", you making no actual effort to push Vaimes was the reason you got into my scumdar in the first place. 3) That's a terrible excuse for not analysing a player's behaviour. Also, at what point exactly and why did you start changing your mind? 4) It's almost like I'm not satisfied with your answers. Maybe I would be if you hadn't suggested a massclaim mostly to get a single player to claim without actually having to push him (a player I now learn thought could have been a watcher/tracker :|), then never spoke of it again. I don't know if I can ever be satisfied with your answers.
Hi ZDS.
I was trying to lynch rod with my vote, but not too quickly.
I do agree with johnny im spewed clear by vaimes
And day 3 was correctly identifying the SK and doing math to figure out he needed to be lynched. Obviously thats not towny but calling it scummy seems a stretch.
And rhand, rod, and vaimes have essentially been my top suspects since kj flipped. Ill add in flarg now but not before rod.
And i dont think we can go anywhere without flipping him. Rod scumflip would be more or less clearing for gj and ywf. Just as (i thought) a vaimes flip was relatively clearing for you and I.
If rod is town id... gj rockets back into consideration imo. Ywf wouldnt go lower than null for me, but my immediate pool becomes flarg/jack/gj
Hi tom.
You don't get credit for incorrectly identifying Flarg as the SK, I did that Day 2.
I don't agree Vaimes cleared you, he acted differently around you than around anyone else.
Your townRod scumlist is very similar to mine (minus Jack).
[Quote=Rodemy]
Johnny clears scumm8 Tom. Tom agreed. But like no.
Also did anyone else notice Johnny following Tom this entire game?
Examples?
He's refering to analyses I made so I'll answer.
Johnny followed tom's vote on: D1) Vaimes, KJ, D2) Rhand (before CFD), D3) Flarg, Rhand, {D5) Rod}.
Some of these votes may have been pure coincidences (D1 Vaimes vote in particular), most of them were blatantly not.
There's also a couple times D2 when Johnny took the lead and tom followed: when voting KCC and when trying to CFD Rhand.
On the other hand Johnny's independent votes show a pattern of not going anywhere. D1) Flarg (you could argue Vaimes before that), D2) Tubba, Zion, that's it.
Day 2 they both voted Rod but never in succession.
---
Quote from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition »
BravadoNoun A show of bravery or defiance, often in order to make a false impression or mislead someone.
Thank you dictionary, that's exactly how I feel about Johnny's attitude.
Check his responses to my points. They are empty. All form and no substance. Because he doesn't have good responses to give.
Props to him though for re-reading Vaimes and noticing the lack of interactions with YWF and Jack. Neither of them have ever been under any kind of serious scrutiny, which both explains why Vaimes had no interest in them and is reason enough to put them under scrutiny. (For example, YWF made some good points re:kpaca, so I'm glad I prodded her a bit.)
Although, it's a wonder why he didn't do that last Night. Surely this break in the action gave him time to give us some *****? Why didn't he reread the game, or at least if he was set on Rod, figuring out who his partner could be?
As for Rodemy, all I have to say is #2939 is right and it's not enough to say you could totally find arguments against him if you tried (right tom?).
The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Early lynching can be telling. Why would Vaimes self hammer instead of fight? Plenty of people have reached L1 and then come back down from it yet Vaimes hammered and ended it. What does scum have to gain from killing the momentum in that moment?
Like my cell mates said we discussed our options and came to the choice that GJ has to die today. I'm still not all the way sold on Rod, but at this point I don't think I ever will be, I trust ZDS though and have since the first night so going to trust Rod, because he does as well.
I have no idea where I stand on Flarg slot since it has being a mess for a long time, they are clearly still in the POE, but not something I really want to risk today, Tom is someone I have had a hard time reading since he clearly can play a good game, I keep going backand forth on them and likely will till the end of the game so not going there today.
YWF as being a pretty much universal townread for most of the game and I'm not even sure why anymore. Possible they are scum but I'm just not really feeling it from their slot.
Its hit the point where I need to do a full reread of those that are still alive, since parts of this game have mixed together and Its clear I can't remember how my early reads formed and changed to where they are now. The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Why did it make it frustrating? You couldn't have thought in a million years you were going to get shot over mod confirmed townies in the thread, did you? Surely this break in the action gave you time to give me some *****? Why didn't you reread the game, or at least if you were set on me, figuring out who my partner could be?
Also, you had nothing to add yesterday other than oops, that was fast?
What more did you expect me to say yesterday, I was working during it and it lasted what 3 hours. If you think a day ending early 2 times by a couple of days is a good thing for town, we will clearly disagree. They was no need for it on either day.
I can be frustrated by a day ending early even when I know my death is unlikely, A break in action we are in week long day phases its not non stop all the time/ If you want to know who your partner is one of kpaca or Tom leaning more Tom maybe. A lot of this is based off ZDS who puts in a lot of work in our cell chat, where we all did vote analysis. He has gave enough reasons to convince me you are scum. Your responses and attitude today have done nothing to convience me you are town here.
Only reason I'm not voting you yet is because I don't want a early hammer.
I'm not lynching Rod today based off Vaimes approuch to him. I could maybe see him as scum with Kpaca based off how much KCC townread that slot for reasons I disagreed with but like I said not today.
I also agree with ZDS on how buddy you and Tom have being all game it is shown espically today
I'm selling my self on the Tom GJ scum team tbh just based off today alone, Tom's approach to Rod does not feel to me like he expects him to in anyway flip red. I also know if Rod does flip green, Tom will just push me or KPaca tomorrow based off his new POE it just seems so set up and easy to flip it onto to me or kpaca tomorrow. The NK is likely going to be ZDS or YWF tonight whatever happens most likely ZDS.
The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Early lynching can be telling. Why would Vaimes self hammer instead of fight? Plenty of people have reached L1 and then come back down from it yet Vaimes hammered and ended it. What does scum have to gain from killing the momentum in that moment?
I don't think he was ever coming back from that he has being on the verge for half the game it feels like but always got out. I think they kill the momentum so they can plan out their next move which makes me feel like they was a bus on Vaimes and like ZDS said GJ being the one who put him in a position to self hammer is a really bad look. Scum ideally want to take control of the chaos like they have all game and will want to end days as fast as possible so they can kill most townread person and be uncontested in chat even more.
Who would you see has vaimes teammates Jack? 'Sides Rod
I wanted an answer to this.
I answered this a bit ok I think it is Tom or Kpaca but would need to reread to be sure. I'm siding with Tom atm because he just does not care what GJ does this game in any sense. Also part of me thinks Sloth may have being right all along. I never see ZDS as scum this game and leaning same towards Rod now. I need to reread you but you are more towny then the other 3 I mentioned. If you are scum here you deserve the win tbh
1) (all three of them) It shouldn't be a surprise Rodemy and I would eventually agree, since we share a cell and I've spent a lot of time defending his slot. Also you've been on my radar for a while as a background blip, but I can't blame you for not knowing. I will grant you one thing, I'm probably missing a lot of ***** from you. I spent most of N3 doing vote and interaction analysis and most of N4 being busy with actual work, so I didn't fully reread you like I did Flarg and Vaimes.
You say that like I am surprised. I am disappointed I am afraid.
I spent most of N3 doing vote and interaction analysis and most of N4 being busy with actual work, so I didn't fully reread you like I did Flarg and Vaimes
Fantastic, and not my point. But your point is clear.
Day 3, Johnny could have put Vaimes at -1 but started the Rod wagon instead, killing all momentum the Vaimes wagon had.
That's the main point I pressume? And I didn't miss it intentionall,y but if you want to avoid the confusion, I would recommend separating your questions and point. Was Vaimes actually that close? I don't recall, but sure that's on me then. Unless Rod is also a wolf in which case, neato.
That's a terrible excuse for not analysing a player's behaviour. Also, at what point exactly and why did you start changing your mind?
This may come as a shock to you, but I am also busy, so while I clearly can dedicate time to the game for posts like this, I cannot reread every person at leisure. I gave up a break to pull up Vaimes *****, and while I don't expect sympathy for that, I do expect you to at least acknowledge I am ******* trying to solve while others are doing far ******* less. And when I flip town, I am going to be really curious how the rest of your chips fall. Your nativity about your own cell chat is incredibly disheartening.
No, I didn't really analyze Flarg's behavior on day 2. I do believe I noted he was no where near as active day 1. I feel as though you are holding me to a higher standard here than anyone else and regardless of my alignment or your: I find it incredibly frustrating and leads to me taking year breaks because why waste my ******* time on this if all that is going to happen is ***** gets thrown onto me. Like straight with you, if I am a wolf and Jack and Rod/KCC and Flarg/Kpaca are town, I ******* deserve this win.
It's almost like I'm not satisfied with your answers. Maybe I would be if you hadn't suggested a massclaim mostly to get a single player to claim without actually having to push him (a player I now learn thought could have been a watcher/tracker :|), then never spoke of it again. I don't know if I can ever be satisfied with your answers.
That's YOUR interpretation. As I stated and you agreed at the time, we were potentially in psuedo mislynch or lose. The wolves seemingly appeared ok with Flarg shooting at whatever he wanted. Did that not seem strange to you? In a closed game that there HAD to be an sk?
Also, I stated what I truly thought: He was a wolf trying to fake soft a role to get people off his back. To which I wasn't completely wrong, by the way. I was correct about the motive, and incorrect about the alignment.
I don't know if I can ever be satisfied with your answers.
Then you given up, and I hope I am right about you and the wolves do me a favor and shoot you. Because as of this moment you are useless to me. I will have to solve this whole ******* game by myself and maybe with tom. And maybe I do get got today and my blueprint leads on. That tells me that you went hunting for reasons for me to be a wolf, instead of looking for thinks that make me a wolf.
What I want to hear from is kpaca. What little we've seen of him just feels like bad acting. Lots of exclamations and phrasing as if being hit by sudden epiphanies....this weird push of rhand's play being about leading a newbie around....and now just silence. I'm not expecting him to read through 57 pages worth of posts but you'd think he'd check out his own slot to see how other players have interacted with it at the bare minimum.
What more did you expect me to say yesterday, I was working during it and it lasted what 3 hours. If you think a day ending early 2 times by a couple of days is a good thing for town, we will clearly disagree. They was no need for it on either day.
You had enough to go "wow that was fast." And which of my posts sounded jovial that the day ended early? I would love to see that.
I can be frustrated by a day ending early even when I know my death is unlikely, A break in action we are in week long day phases its not non stop all the time/ If you want to know who your partner is one of kpaca or Tom leaning more Tom maybe. A lot of this is based off ZDS who puts in a lot of work in our cell chat, where we all did vote analysis. He has gave enough reasons to convince me you are scum. Your responses and attitude today have done nothing to convience me you are town here.
Frustrated was the wrong word. You have to reread, you knew you weren't going to die. LW practically gave up, and he still got shot. You really thought YOUD be targeted over Tubba? You couldn't post a line you spent typing at night before you turned into a three headed hydra?
Only reason I'm not voting you yet is because I don't want a early hammer.
Do it, I bloody dare you. If you think I am going to hammer myself before I lay out a plan, you're a fool. Even if you think I am a wolf, does my posting sound like I want the day to end?
I'm not lynching Rod today based off Vaimes approuch to him. I could maybe see him as scum with Kpaca based off how much KCC townread that slot for reasons I disagreed with but like I said not today.
I'll say what you and ZDS apparently refuse to: You decided Shadow made you secret masons, and decided you are infalliable. Vaimes approach to him was indifference between him and Flarg/Kpaca, and seemed to stay with the flow.
I also agree with ZDS on how buddy you and Tom have being all game it is shown espically today
Does that actually matter?
And yeah, tom is the one person I don't doubt right now. Begrudgingly, I add ZDS to that list as well as I think he just decided to death tunnel on his group being super special and that I HAVE to be wolves with Vaimes. Rodemy just thinks people who call him a wolf are wolves themselves.
I'll be angry about being wolfread. But anyone who thinks I am wolves with tom, my respect for your mafia game will literally hit negative. tom said not likely or something. I say not a ******* chance in hell.
and then put you and i as the team but only pushed me
No. What I said alone proves I am not scum with vaimes. He could have easily mislynched Zion but went for me instead.
so?
Are youre saying vaimes wouldnt bus? It seems a pretty textbook place to do so. Especially with a claimed "vig" out there they dont seem to have a way to stop
Back to the Rod read based on how day 2 went I just can't see Vaimes as scum with Rod espically off the end of day he was far too mad for someone trying to bus a buddy. I said in my cell before but will here that I felt his frustration was more based on a scum annoyed at missing a no lynch then a town missing a lynch, yesterday helps to prove that point.
cant really see vaimes anger as anything but replicating how mad hed be as town for no lynching and doubt rodemy or zion alignment matters.
Like... he was scum why would you think he was genuinely mad there?
Hi tom.
You don't get credit for incorrectly identifying Flarg as the SK, I did that Day 2.
I don't agree Vaimes cleared you, he acted differently around you than around anyone else.
Your townRod scumlist is very similar to mine (minus Jack).
first of all, i DO get credit for correctly identifying that there was a serial killer. As it was fully mechanical not based on flarg or whatever.
That credit just isnt towncred lol
But thats not what i was saying. Iirc you had just said something about vaimes being my top scumread but i lynched rhand instead, which i felt was silly
I do think vaimes behavior towards me is pretty damn clearing. Dont really care that its different from how he treated others, it was opportunistic. But its not really i thing i feel a need to argue since i also feel fairly obviously unaligned with rod and flargslot and i think that will work out for me too
(As for the *****talk at the end there...
Ive already said its unfair to rod that i care more about kcc than him. Unfair but not invalid. Hes been nothing but omgus and self righteousness thats like the easiest possible way to play scum)
I had Rod/Flarg unaligned because of how carefree VAimes seemed to be with either lynch. It's even possible they could be V/V. I don't think they are ever w/w, if that makes sense.
I am just trying to figure out the rest, so I want to see if you see what I see. I actually ****ed up, and meant to say how Vaimes treats Jack vs YMV.
I'm selling my self on the Tom GJ scum team tbh just based off today alone, Tom's approach to Rod does not feel to me like he expects him to in anyway flip red. I also know if Rod does flip green, Tom will just push me or KPaca tomorrow based off his new POE it just seems so set up and easy to flip it onto to me or kpaca tomorrow. The NK is likely going to be ZDS or YWF tonight whatever happens most likely ZDS.
i dont think im far from 50/50 on rod if im being honest.
I do agree me and gj have largely the same agenda today, but im also completely abandoning my townread of him <unless> rod is scum, and i dont think we agree on much other than rod?
I had Rod/Flarg unaligned because of how carefree VAimes seemed to be with either lynch. It's even possible they could be V/V. I don't think they are ever w/w, if that makes sense.
I am just trying to figure out the rest, so I want to see if you see what I see. I actually ****ed up, and meant to say how Vaimes treats Jack vs YMV.
doesnt make sense to me, no. Situations not similar enough to compare maybe?
I more or less buy ywf's interpretation? Kind of a mutual kid gloves because previous games.
And if they're partners its more or less the same so meh
Ive seen no meaningful interactions between vaimes and jack. Closest i have to an unalignment with jack is that his cell came into d2 really fractured and i had a gut feeling there wasnt more than one scum there.
Thats
Kind of the problem with jack
Tonally good, not much else
but im also completely abandoning my townread of him <unless> rod is scum, and i dont think we agree on much other than rod?
i did want to say "GJs indignance that we could possibly be partners reminds me of my own" but then didnt because i thought it would just embolden the sort of person that thinks that in the first place but also
Wait why are you indignant? Im indignant because ive been thinking about whether youre pocketing me for weeks and how is anyone putting me WITH you but aint no way you think that about me
I wouldn't be nearly as sloppy, out of practice or not. I am also not a great power wolf, and am far more likely to keep my distance from a wolf buddy than basically be on their ass. If I was on your ass, it was because I agreed with your view of the game.
That's a picture of exhaustion tom. I am basically at psuedo L-1, got to try and find something, and I am antagonizing at least one of the people not voting me, so I am just....furious.
We basically had to fight 4 wolves in a 15 player game with one being a vig. I feel like there is at least two town in the two in four players barely playing. And if I am wrong, it's even ******* worse. And I am the one being pushed right now.
I am tired tom. Not unlike my last game. After struggling to read this game, dealing with everything, and now this pod wants my neck because they think they are masons? I just....can't.
I have never, in my carear as a werewolf player ever pocketed a player as either alignment. Buddying up to, sure. But since our world views are different now, I guess see if you think mine at least makes sense, or if its fake as hell,
I had Rod/Flarg unaligned because of how carefree VAimes seemed to be with either lynch. It's even possible they could be V/V. I don't think they are ever w/w, if that makes sense.
I am just trying to figure out the rest, so I want to see if you see what I see. I actually ****ed up, and meant to say how Vaimes treats Jack vs YMV.
doesnt make sense to me, no. Situations not similar enough to compare maybe?
I more or less buy ywf's interpretation? Kind of a mutual kid gloves because previous games.
And if they're partners its more or less the same so meh
Ive seen no meaningful interactions between vaimes and jack. Closest i have to an unalignment with jack is that his cell came into d2 really fractured and i had a gut feeling there wasnt more than one scum there.
Thats
Kind of the problem with jack
Tonally good, not much else
I had an inclination based on a few comments, that the one Vaimes was perhaps poking at Jack as a potential mislynch, which is why I switched Jack and YMV*. I can go back through my own posts and highlight that later perhaps.
Im not really the one you gotta convince my man. If rod flips scum i will save you if need be via kcc posts towards you sod2
Otherwise...
I think you and jack are the prime candidates for "a wolf having a good game"
You with flarg or jack with rod probably.
It does seem a bit ludicrous to me to go after either of you before rod and kpaca though
Im not really the one you gotta convince my man. If rod flips scum i will save you if need be via kcc posts towards you sod2
Otherwise...
I think you and jack are the prime candidates for "a wolf having a good game"
You with flarg or jack with rod probably.
It does seem a bit ludicrous to me to go after either of you before rod and kpaca though
haha
I am amused you think this is a good game from me. I balked on Vaimes too long, I left wagons get out of control day 2 to the point that we no lynched. And then I moved Vaimes to L-1, and let him immediately hammer. I think this has been a God awful game, if we are being honest with each other.
I am not trying to convince you to leave me alone. I am trying to covince you of unaligned pairing so that when I inevitably flip, you can solve. If you don't get shot tonight that is.
But yes
D1 i wanted kj
D3 i wanted rhand
D4 i wanted vaimes
Thats 1 for 2 plus a mechanically corrrct SK lynch
Seems fine
His interaction with Flarg worsens for me towards the end. The voting on Rod.
As of right now, I feel like there is 1 wolf in
Kpaca/Rod
Jack/YWF
Maybe ZDS set up the perfect push. My one little annoying thought is for the same thing he is pushing me for: He wolf reads seemingly, but doesn't seem interested in pushing vaimes that hard. Look at his post today towards me vs his push towards Vaimes earlier. I'll find it if I have more time, but it's a small thought. He was definitely hounding him before concencus pressure fell upon Vaimes.
There are answers there. I just tried to pull quotes where his reads exist, and perhaps some progression. Obviously, vaimes has more than what I put there.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But humor me. I flip town, does that effect your read of tom? Can tom and YMV be wolves together?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My read on it for what it matters?
Last time we played together we were both town and I tunneled vaimes. HARD. Into a mislynch I think. I fully admit I struggle like hell to read him and was gun shy to approach it this game. Vaimes wouldn't risk drawing my attention after the Wonka fiasco. Bad combo of uncertainty on my side and caution/opportunity on his.
It has nothing to do with how you acted towards him. It's his lack of interaction with you, but your position in his reads that has me bothered.
What about the rest? My split as such feels like the way he floated between Rod/Kpaca was indifferent. It felt like at least 1 in the pile was likely a mislynch, I doubt Vaimes would have been that lackadaisical if they both were wolves.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Not gonna say its impossible but if we were wolves together it would be a weird waste of energy from johnny.
Not impossible. I just looked at Vaimes in vacuum. I think apart from rereading them, I would want to see Vaimes jumping back and forth before Rhand went down.
I think for sure, Rod/Kpaca aren't w/w. Hence, my pairings. From just the vaimes perspective, he seemed to be poking occasionally at Jack. I personally had/have Jack lower than YMV, but Vaimes is also careful not to spew too many people, so maybe I am looking to deep into it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Which I also covered in my saying its a bad combo of lack of confidence from me and caution/opportunity from Vaimes. My tunnelathon in the DLP wonka game wouldn't JUST effect my interacting with him. Common sense dictates that you wouldn't draw attention from a town player known for tunneling the crap out of people let alone one who JUST did it to you.
As for the 1 wolf living in those slots. I'm not sure I agree. Who's the final scum then?
Any thoughts on kpaca's MIAness in conjunction with his weird "rhand leading newbie around" insistence and vaimes' silence the crowds self hammer?
I hate him as a mafia player. He is a chronic lurker unless something changed in the last few years. He can be a bit stubborn on reads, but can be scary when he is right.
Is 3 scum + a neutral not enough?
gun to my head with just my vaimes analysis and what I have to far, I say you/Rod. I actually don't like how hard you are trying to justify vaimes distance from you, and it's really rubbing me the wrong way.
Who are the final wolves in your pool? HOw does Vaimes flipping change or confirm your world?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
YWF
Jack
GJ
kpaca
Rod
Zds i dont think is a wolf with vaimes. Confirms earlier townread.
Ywf still feels pretty town to me. Here and cellblock.
Also never a wolf with kccslot, ~probably not with kpaca either
Jack im realistically super null on. Kinda fits on all teams
GJ... i mean if hes a wolf hes spent substantial time pocketing me. Guess hes down here because i hate when that works...
Not a wolf with kccslot
Flargpaca is just... missing a lot of levels as a slot. Would be weird cell makeup, but ywf's point about yesterdays silencing is a good one.
Kcc/rod slot has been in antispew since day 1. Kcc sod2 still feels like a crumbling wolf.
Rod started pushing things but its almost exclusively omgus.
And the word "almost" in there is basically just me being nice...
Viable teams at, like
Rod/flarg
Rod/jack
Flarg/gj
Flarg/jack
Gj/jack
Gj/ywf
Jack/ywf
Not building with zds at this time
Dont really believe in the ywf ones
From just a worldbuilding standpoint i think flarg and jack have the least going for them. Theyre also super meh.
Maybe id be cool with lynching kpaca over rod today. Dont feel good about either of them being alive if tomorrow is F5, and kpaca does fit on more teams.
He does (therefore?) give less info though. And outside of <things i dont fully understand> i dont think flarg is as <objectively scummy> as kcc
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Sorry confused. Vaimes is conf scum. You said theres one wolf lurking in your group of four of me, Kpaca, Rod and Jack. I'm asking who's 3
1 of you/JAck
1 of Rod/Kpaca
Mostly for reasons that I don't think Rod/Kpaca are ever w/w based on Vaimes treatment of them. I suppose it's not impossible you and Jack could be a pair...but KCC/Flarg both came off worse from wear.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
No. What I said alone proves I am not scum with vaimes. He could have easily mislynched Zion but went for me instead.
I have no idea where I stand on Flarg slot since it has being a mess for a long time, they are clearly still in the POE, but not something I really want to risk today, Tom is someone I have had a hard time reading since he clearly can play a good game, I keep going backand forth on them and likely will till the end of the game so not going there today.
YWF as being a pretty much universal townread for most of the game and I'm not even sure why anymore. Possible they are scum but I'm just not really feeling it from their slot.
Its hit the point where I need to do a full reread of those that are still alive, since parts of this game have mixed together and Its clear I can't remember how my early reads formed and changed to where they are now. The two early hammers the last couple of days have made this even more frustrating.
Is that right?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why did it make it frustrating? You couldn't have thought in a million years you were going to get shot over mod confirmed townies in the thread, did you? Surely this break in the action gave you time to give me some *****? Why didn't you reread the game, or at least if you were set on me, figuring out who my partner could be?
Also, you had nothing to add yesterday other than oops, that was fast?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
1) (all three of them) It shouldn't be a surprise Rodemy and I would eventually agree, since we share a cell and I've spent a lot of time defending his slot. Also you've been on my radar for a while as a background blip, but I can't blame you for not knowing. I will grant you one thing, I'm probably missing a lot of ***** from you. I spent most of N3 doing vote and interaction analysis and most of N4 being busy with actual work, so I didn't fully reread you like I did Flarg and Vaimes.
2) You literally avoided the main point just to give a sarcastic answer to the parenthesis. By the way you have no right to say "I wasn't interested in pushing vaimes that hard", you making no actual effort to push Vaimes was the reason you got into my scumdar in the first place.
3) That's a terrible excuse for not analysing a player's behaviour. Also, at what point exactly and why did you start changing your mind?
4) It's almost like I'm not satisfied with your answers. Maybe I would be if you hadn't suggested a massclaim mostly to get a single player to claim without actually having to push him (a player I now learn thought could have been a watcher/tracker :|), then never spoke of it again. I don't know if I can ever be satisfied with your answers.
Hi tom.
You don't get credit for incorrectly identifying Flarg as the SK, I did that Day 2.
I don't agree Vaimes cleared you, he acted differently around you than around anyone else.
Your townRod scumlist is very similar to mine (minus Jack).
He's refering to analyses I made so I'll answer.
Johnny followed tom's vote on: D1) Vaimes, KJ, D2) Rhand (before CFD), D3) Flarg, Rhand, {D5) Rod}.
Some of these votes may have been pure coincidences (D1 Vaimes vote in particular), most of them were blatantly not.
There's also a couple times D2 when Johnny took the lead and tom followed: when voting KCC and when trying to CFD Rhand.
On the other hand Johnny's independent votes show a pattern of not going anywhere. D1) Flarg (you could argue Vaimes before that), D2) Tubba, Zion, that's it.
Day 2 they both voted Rod but never in succession.
---
Thank you dictionary, that's exactly how I feel about Johnny's attitude.
Check his responses to my points. They are empty. All form and no substance. Because he doesn't have good responses to give.
Props to him though for re-reading Vaimes and noticing the lack of interactions with YWF and Jack. Neither of them have ever been under any kind of serious scrutiny, which both explains why Vaimes had no interest in them and is reason enough to put them under scrutiny. (For example, YWF made some good points re:kpaca, so I'm glad I prodded her a bit.)
Although, it's a wonder why he didn't do that last Night. Surely this break in the action gave him time to give us some *****? Why didn't he reread the game, or at least if he was set on Rod, figuring out who his partner could be?
As for Rodemy, all I have to say is #2939 is right and it's not enough to say you could totally find arguments against him if you tried (right tom?).
Early lynching can be telling. Why would Vaimes self hammer instead of fight? Plenty of people have reached L1 and then come back down from it yet Vaimes hammered and ended it. What does scum have to gain from killing the momentum in that moment?
I wanted an answer to this.
What more did you expect me to say yesterday, I was working during it and it lasted what 3 hours. If you think a day ending early 2 times by a couple of days is a good thing for town, we will clearly disagree. They was no need for it on either day.
I can be frustrated by a day ending early even when I know my death is unlikely, A break in action we are in week long day phases its not non stop all the time/ If you want to know who your partner is one of kpaca or Tom leaning more Tom maybe. A lot of this is based off ZDS who puts in a lot of work in our cell chat, where we all did vote analysis. He has gave enough reasons to convince me you are scum. Your responses and attitude today have done nothing to convience me you are town here.
Only reason I'm not voting you yet is because I don't want a early hammer.
I'm not lynching Rod today based off Vaimes approuch to him. I could maybe see him as scum with Kpaca based off how much KCC townread that slot for reasons I disagreed with but like I said not today.
I also agree with ZDS on how buddy you and Tom have being all game it is shown espically today
I don't think he was ever coming back from that he has being on the verge for half the game it feels like but always got out. I think they kill the momentum so they can plan out their next move which makes me feel like they was a bus on Vaimes and like ZDS said GJ being the one who put him in a position to self hammer is a really bad look. Scum ideally want to take control of the chaos like they have all game and will want to end days as fast as possible so they can kill most townread person and be uncontested in chat even more.
I answered this a bit ok I think it is Tom or Kpaca but would need to reread to be sure. I'm siding with Tom atm because he just does not care what GJ does this game in any sense. Also part of me thinks Sloth may have being right all along. I never see ZDS as scum this game and leaning same towards Rod now. I need to reread you but you are more towny then the other 3 I mentioned. If you are scum here you deserve the win tbh
You say that like I am surprised. I am disappointed I am afraid.
Fantastic, and not my point. But your point is clear.
That's the main point I pressume? And I didn't miss it intentionall,y but if you want to avoid the confusion, I would recommend separating your questions and point. Was Vaimes actually that close? I don't recall, but sure that's on me then. Unless Rod is also a wolf in which case, neato.
This may come as a shock to you, but I am also busy, so while I clearly can dedicate time to the game for posts like this, I cannot reread every person at leisure. I gave up a break to pull up Vaimes *****, and while I don't expect sympathy for that, I do expect you to at least acknowledge I am ******* trying to solve while others are doing far ******* less. And when I flip town, I am going to be really curious how the rest of your chips fall. Your nativity about your own cell chat is incredibly disheartening.
No, I didn't really analyze Flarg's behavior on day 2. I do believe I noted he was no where near as active day 1. I feel as though you are holding me to a higher standard here than anyone else and regardless of my alignment or your: I find it incredibly frustrating and leads to me taking year breaks because why waste my ******* time on this if all that is going to happen is ***** gets thrown onto me. Like straight with you, if I am a wolf and Jack and Rod/KCC and Flarg/Kpaca are town, I ******* deserve this win.
That's YOUR interpretation. As I stated and you agreed at the time, we were potentially in psuedo mislynch or lose. The wolves seemingly appeared ok with Flarg shooting at whatever he wanted. Did that not seem strange to you? In a closed game that there HAD to be an sk?
Also, I stated what I truly thought: He was a wolf trying to fake soft a role to get people off his back. To which I wasn't completely wrong, by the way. I was correct about the motive, and incorrect about the alignment.
Then you given up, and I hope I am right about you and the wolves do me a favor and shoot you. Because as of this moment you are useless to me. I will have to solve this whole ******* game by myself and maybe with tom. And maybe I do get got today and my blueprint leads on. That tells me that you went hunting for reasons for me to be a wolf, instead of looking for thinks that make me a wolf.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You had enough to go "wow that was fast." And which of my posts sounded jovial that the day ended early? I would love to see that.
Frustrated was the wrong word. You have to reread, you knew you weren't going to die. LW practically gave up, and he still got shot. You really thought YOUD be targeted over Tubba? You couldn't post a line you spent typing at night before you turned into a three headed hydra?
Do it, I bloody dare you. If you think I am going to hammer myself before I lay out a plan, you're a fool. Even if you think I am a wolf, does my posting sound like I want the day to end?
I'll say what you and ZDS apparently refuse to: You decided Shadow made you secret masons, and decided you are infalliable. Vaimes approach to him was indifference between him and Flarg/Kpaca, and seemed to stay with the flow.
Does that actually matter?
And yeah, tom is the one person I don't doubt right now. Begrudgingly, I add ZDS to that list as well as I think he just decided to death tunnel on his group being super special and that I HAVE to be wolves with Vaimes. Rodemy just thinks people who call him a wolf are wolves themselves.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Starting with Jack.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Are youre saying vaimes wouldnt bus? It seems a pretty textbook place to do so. Especially with a claimed "vig" out there they dont seem to have a way to stop
Like... he was scum why would you think he was genuinely mad there?
What do you make of Vaimes interaction? You can just skim his iso, but take a look at his posts towards Jack vs Flarg?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That credit just isnt towncred lol
But thats not what i was saying. Iirc you had just said something about vaimes being my top scumread but i lynched rhand instead, which i felt was silly
I do think vaimes behavior towards me is pretty damn clearing. Dont really care that its different from how he treated others, it was opportunistic. But its not really i thing i feel a need to argue since i also feel fairly obviously unaligned with rod and flargslot and i think that will work out for me too
(As for the *****talk at the end there...
Ive already said its unfair to rod that i care more about kcc than him. Unfair but not invalid. Hes been nothing but omgus and self righteousness thats like the easiest possible way to play scum)
Is it a jack/flarg unalignment because vaimes treated them differently?
I had Rod/Flarg unaligned because of how carefree VAimes seemed to be with either lynch. It's even possible they could be V/V. I don't think they are ever w/w, if that makes sense.
I am just trying to figure out the rest, so I want to see if you see what I see. I actually ****ed up, and meant to say how Vaimes treats Jack vs YMV.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I do agree me and gj have largely the same agenda today, but im also completely abandoning my townread of him <unless> rod is scum, and i dont think we agree on much other than rod?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I more or less buy ywf's interpretation? Kind of a mutual kid gloves because previous games.
And if they're partners its more or less the same so meh
Ive seen no meaningful interactions between vaimes and jack. Closest i have to an unalignment with jack is that his cell came into d2 really fractured and i had a gut feeling there wasnt more than one scum there.
Thats
Kind of the problem with jack
Tonally good, not much else
Wait why are you indignant? Im indignant because ive been thinking about whether youre pocketing me for weeks and how is anyone putting me WITH you but aint no way you think that about me
That's a picture of exhaustion tom. I am basically at psuedo L-1, got to try and find something, and I am antagonizing at least one of the people not voting me, so I am just....furious.
We basically had to fight 4 wolves in a 15 player game with one being a vig. I feel like there is at least two town in the two in four players barely playing. And if I am wrong, it's even ******* worse. And I am the one being pushed right now.
I am tired tom. Not unlike my last game. After struggling to read this game, dealing with everything, and now this pod wants my neck because they think they are masons? I just....can't.
I have never, in my carear as a werewolf player ever pocketed a player as either alignment. Buddying up to, sure. But since our world views are different now, I guess see if you think mine at least makes sense, or if its fake as hell,
I don't know man.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I had an inclination based on a few comments, that the one Vaimes was perhaps poking at Jack as a potential mislynch, which is why I switched Jack and YMV*. I can go back through my own posts and highlight that later perhaps.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Im not really the one you gotta convince my man. If rod flips scum i will save you if need be via kcc posts towards you sod2
Otherwise...
I think you and jack are the prime candidates for "a wolf having a good game"
You with flarg or jack with rod probably.
It does seem a bit ludicrous to me to go after either of you before rod and kpaca though
haha
I am amused you think this is a good game from me. I balked on Vaimes too long, I left wagons get out of control day 2 to the point that we no lynched. And then I moved Vaimes to L-1, and let him immediately hammer. I think this has been a God awful game, if we are being honest with each other.
I am not trying to convince you to leave me alone. I am trying to covince you of unaligned pairing so that when I inevitably flip, you can solve. If you don't get shot tonight that is.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
*****, maybe I am better at this game than I thought.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Decided to skip d1 and go to first rainbow of d2... prolly pretty good