I hope it's not too late for that kind of request, but if the rest of you are set on wanting RodemyCupCake dead (or being fine with it), could we let Flarg take care of him toNight and lynch someone else for now?
My townread on that slot is not strong enough to ask we dont off him at all, but it definitely is strong enough that I want to give Rod a safe-ish space (our Night chat) to express his thoughts without pressure (@Jack I hope it's fine with you).
You can also think of it as a compromise between lynching him and giving him a breather after he just replaced in.
Then after Flarg kills him, Jack & I do your best to give a neutral and complete summary of anything he said, and we analyse it depending on the flip.
If instead Flarg decides to "hero shoot" again, we get rid of the green ****er.
My suggestions for a non-Rod lynch are Zionite, Vaimes, and definitely not tom.
1 & 2) It's not so tied up like this. The reads on each player are independent, and where they cross was when GJ's pushed on Rhand. Things like that are useful for solving. So these questions already don't seem right because my read is not dependent on Rhand being town/scum. But yeah, if GJ made a bad push I'd definitely reconsider and dive deeper, try to see if it was intentional or if there were signs I missed before. You know, playing the game. I never tried to set up a lynch and if you think anyone is listening to what I have to say anyways, well you're giving me wayy too much credit. Many players are sure I'm scum so I don't know why they'd go for my devious plan to set up a lynch on GJ, who I've been solidly town reading for the majority of the game.
You are right people aren't listening to you, although I'd say it has less to do with your scumminess than with you diluting whatever points you are making down to homeopathic levels with your quote walls. I know you are responding to a lot of stuff but maybe after all these years you should learn to be lazy and handwave unimportant *****, while separating whatever's important better.
Anyway, back on track, the bolded is actually a good defense, with a big caveat that makes it fall flat: can't you just pull that kind of excuse at any time to get out of jail free whenever you get called out like I did?
Also, I'm roughly fine with the non-bolded part (it's a generic NAI answer), but there's another problem. Either you say you are analysing Johnny & Rhand separately or you dismiss the idea you'd have any credibility if you did tie them up. The first half makes the second moot. Overall you come off as more concerned with countering every single argument than with being internally coherent.
Re me admitting I could be wrong, how the **** did you interpret my line like this?
@Jack & @YWF, don't vote if your vote might be the hammer. It's too easy for scum to make that kind of "mistake" on purpose. I've been townreading you two so far so I'm not angry, but pull that crap again and I'm gonna do like a salmon and flip on you.
Re Slothful's #2082
On you not being paranoid: Conspiracy theories like
Quote from Slothful »
Another player was about to dig into what he set up. Tubba's case on KJ was not as confident or solid, but tom jumps in to capitalize in it because (1) if he doesn't, and could potentially bite him with his cellmates; and (2) now tubba's technically the one that started the wagon, and is a built-in fall guy
don't come from a sane mind.
On KCC: The way you put it, your theory had no failsafe, no way for KCC to prove herself in your eyes except maybe by acting in whatever highly specific way would have gotten you to reconsider your read, if such a thing even exists. Did you, at any point, give any serious thought to the perspective where this slot is town and she did everything exactly as she did? Because I did and her actions did not disprove that perspective.
On Vaimes: You are smart so I know you can figure it out on your own. Here's a hint: Vaimes is scum.
Do we even know for sure flarg has shots and if he did would even listen to us, they is multi ways to frame a vig or for a vig to lie about a kill not happening.
I also don't know what you expect Rod to say in our chat if he knows we both want him dead and vig will kill him anyway. He has had enough time today to put his views across and show why I don't see his approach changing much in our chat. I could agree to it if others agreed but I think this is a bad idea and could lead to more issues tomorrow.
I could get behind a Vaimes lynch tbh or Rhand not sure on Zion I would much rather a vig shot there if Rod flipped town since I think one of the two is scum. I'm not really feeling a lynch on them today. Agree on Tom for today at least though.
My vote was not close to being hammer and when I thought it was by mistake I took it away in the same min.
I still have no idea where I stand on Wisp starting to move him more into the scum pile though. Actually getting a red flip would help a hell of a lot in my read of him. His play here is just so passive and not caring at times, but I do agree with a lot of the points he makes at the same time.
Last build me a 3 person scumteam with a flex slot
my PoE is like
Vaimes/Rhand/Rodemy/Zion
You? But I don't really believe that, if you somehow manage to flip wolf, I'll probably have to re-evalute somewhere
Last build me a 3 person scumteam with a flex slot
my PoE is like
Vaimes/Rhand/Rodemy/Zion
You? But I don't really believe that, if you somehow manage to flip wolf, I'll probably have to re-evalute somewhere
ok sure, but mentally swaps zion for you doesn't that feel too easy?
Last build me a 3 person scumteam with a flex slot
my PoE is like
Vaimes/Rhand/Rodemy/Zion
You? But I don't really believe that, if you somehow manage to flip wolf, I'll probably have to re-evalute somewhere
ok sure, but mentally swaps zion for you doesn't that feel too easy?
kind of? But like everyone else from what I remember looks better? So why should I start re-evaluating now?
At one point I'll probably give my own read on YWF, and I am certainly now touching Tubba anytime soon, mostly because he doesn't feel like a wolf, just doing his own thing, and there are worse people in this game
Flarh, your targets should be obvious.
I'm assuming you have more than 1 shot because if you had only one and you used it on Grape of all people, I will slap you.
Just repeating this with an @ in case it's missed.
(Except this site doesn't have an @ feature because why would that be useful???)
Do not shoot any of my cellmates.
Right so i went to look for kjs reads of me...-SNIP-
See when you keep doing this it just keeps making me feel like I'm right on you.
You've been responding back to my case (in ways that don't truly address the points, as I've said and don't want to keep repeating), and you do it in a throughout way that leaves no doubt that at the very least you've read it closely.
That post of KJ's you're quoting here is on my case (I even highlighted part of it) and taken into account as one of the reads sludging towards you, like the rest: He even states in it and others that his only reason to believing you're probably town is because he thinks you believe the case.
I also state how throughout the rest of the Day he was worn worn down by your arguments ("I'm probably gonna die just by virtue of not being able to outargue Tom") that he knew were wrong (thus, tainted and not as valid).
As for the last post:
His last post of the Day, after he had been lynched, was to bounce back on the idea that tom was scum. Free of the pressure of the game and once again able to see clearly without everyone else on him, he went back to the original assessment.
Which is what happened: That post and the first red one were the only ones drive only by an assessment of you and your content, rather than just the impression you believe the case.
In conclusion: No. Bad tom. Stop misrepresenting. Very bad.
If rhand is scum im calling myself clear because that post is TMI and the push was opportunistic
I agree, I don't see how rhand and you could be w/w, because of these reasons.
I noticed this post as well, but the thing is that (ironically) I was under the impression that rhand is too good a player to just suddenly switch gears like this when it's convenient and then switch back. I would have expected him to be more subtle about it as scum, and definitely work up a case and keep to it. Thoughts?
If sloth knew me a little better i think he would have made this the strongest w/w read. He did mention i went nowhere on last but didnt take the plunge. Probably because hes townreading last for the same silly reasons i stuck him at null: tone/presence/charm
Talk to me more about why this would have been a strong w/w for me? This would be on you/Last, right?
Re: KCC's case; I wouldn't say people were loling and dismissive at the time, in fact this was after my assessment on her and several people were willing to vote her, which you yourself quoted.
Noted, though.
Why didn't you respond to the bolded question I gave you?
Can do you a quick comparison on tubba v. KJ? I thought KJ was town, I think tubba is town, but I'm not seeing similarities.
So you’re priority is back to your “top scum read”, after you didn’t see much happening on the other slots you left yourself an excuse to go to? I’m scum and people are ignoring me, but it’s not worth a case? What if you meet an unfortunate accident in the night? Maybe I’m level zero, but I don’t feel like you’ve meant anything you’ve pushed, so shoot your shot and get it on the table.
If you won’t case me, case your top scum read again. I want you to tell me why you believe.
Nice mudsling, let's see how it pans out.
How do you construe "I will definitely make a case" into "it's not worth a case"? When did I say you were being ignored?
An unfortunate accident sounds like a threat. One that I dare you to make good on. Do it.
Taking into account some early game shenanigans, I've meant most of what I've said. It's a lot easier when I stop thinking so much.
I don't think I have to case someone who's almost certainly getting lynched already. I did it Day 1. And you can be damn sure I'm taking credit when Rodemy/KCC flips scum.
I don't owe you any explanation whatsoever. Your post count is so low, the case will take ten minutes tops. And it won't even be a wall.
My only concern is that I might distract the masses with such blinding truth that they can't focus on getting Rodemy lynched toDay. /s
Yeah this is bad.
First of all, you're a good vig target, as people keep saying. It is in no way unlikely that you won't be around tomorrow.
If it'll take 10 minutes tops, then do it, because if he has such low postcounts and yet you still think he's scummy despite what others say, you should definitely give us that.
You presenting a case now will not distract from the current wagons, but it'd be useful in later Days if we need to look back on Tubba. I would say you do owe us something like that as a protown move.
So...your refusal here is weird and gives the indication that your only issue with Tubba is that he's being townread rather than having a scumread on him. Response?
@sloth why would that make you think youre right on me?
Weve both acknowledged that the charisma based play is just the way i am. Im acknowledging your interpretation and offering my own, charismatically.
Why should persuasion and dismissal be tools only wolves can use?
But yes KJ, as anyone as any alignment could under that kind of pressure, responded with an amount of omgus. You say he was right in the emotional reactions, i know he got it right in the logical middle.
Cool
As for rhand:
If i look back on my mafia influences, rhand (as both alignments) is one of the places i got the brazeness.
My favorite story is prisoner's dilemma, which had the mechanic of you could choose defect/cooperate and win if youre the only defector but multiple defections amd they all die...
Rhand was the only n0 defector
Its actions and words for him and i actually play much more like him in short phases and mashes for obvious reasons
The way i played with last is exactly how i treat ~strong buddies. Largely let them fend for themselves but push agendas together.
Other end of the spectrum, a newer/rustier partner id treat more like (respectively) tubba/zion. Help them establish footing in the thread until letting them fly on their own.
Im still not a wolf, but if i was thats how you teambuild around me.
Ok well.
At the airport with the unwashed masses. Direct flight to a mile from my house where i will be self quarantining until... my industry recovers
I have been actively trying to channel your carelessness in my game lately and it helps to get scumread less.
Sadly I can’t hold on to it for long enough
My main influences would be Iso, Voxx and Generic I think, but I never really gave that any thought.
Rhand, re: Zionite, I think he's been composing himself in a way that's townier than Rod has here. Zionite hasn't cracked under two Day phases of pressure. Plus frozen-ish gamestate on Day 1 before tom launched his KJ crusade made it seem like scum were good with him dying.
I'm not changing my mind on you cause ya've done nothing to change my mind. Your targets mostly seem to be people who are scum reading you and you're struggling to get through a case because it even connects to your slot. Its hyper defensive.
I don't think you're scum hunting...I think you're just defending yourself. Voting someone and saying "for science" and then not doing anything pressurey is not scum hunting.
Rhand, I would prefer to give one more day. Call it a subtle reading. Vaimes has just been actual awful this game day, and while I don't think the support is there today, I am prepared to dig in tomorrow.
Better scum than you have tried.
I resent the notion that I've been "awful." Low-impact, perhaps, but I'm missing the step between that and awful.
On you not being paranoid: Conspiracy theories like -QUOTE- don't come from a sane mind.
First of all, thanks. My mind is indeed innovative and flexible.
Second of all, Tom has actually gone on record a couple of times, while responding to my case, stating that though he assures us all he's not scum in this game, what I'm describing is definitely within the realm of possibility for him when playing as scum. Also, I pointed out the tubba thing as flimsy.
Soooooo...what is the point of this statement?
On KCC: The way you put it, your theory had no failsafe, no way for KCC to prove herself in your eyes except maybe by acting in whatever highly specific way would have gotten you to reconsider your read, if such a thing even exists. Did you, at any point, give any serious thought to the perspective where this slot is town and she did everything exactly as she did? Because I did and her actions did not disprove that perspective.
The 'failsafe', if you want to call it that, would have been as simple as not being hyper-defensive on the hammer (or simply acknowledging it as the wrong move in hindsight), revisiting last Day and seeing what went wrong, not randomly vote you for the reasons she claims - plus half a dozen other little things that are more subjective and subtle.
Wouldn't have meant she's not scum, or erased any of the D1 moves, but would have made it so that I wouldn't be as sure.
Can I ask what makes you interested in this? I mean, despite my read I didn't vote KC at any point toDay and have expressed my utter lack of interest in voting Rod for non-content reasons.
On Vaimes: You are smart so I know you can figure it out on your own. Here's a hint: Vaimes is scum.
Again with the coy. I think I'd prefer you just tell me actually.
I don't understand your sudden spike in agro towards Jack and Ter over their votes btw - they voted and unvoted pretty much immediately and commented that they were trying to avoid an L-1 hammer. How is that sequence one of scummy-intent?
Re: Lynching Z over KC; I'm not opposed to this - though I'm probably not the best to respond to it as I'm already not doing it - but why?
I'm unsure what can be gained from a Night chat conversation that can't from toDay: No one is exactly pressuring Rod (he's been more or less been written off) so he's free to give thoughts, legacies and to work out the game.
By your plan the only thing that changes is that he's an active force for an extra 48 more hours, "knowing" he's dead at the end of it as surely as he "knows" he's dead at the end of toDay, so it's no "safer" than he is now - and this is assuming that flarg even decides to shoot him as you envision.
What I'm saying is that I'm not seeing what the town benefit there is to this continuing in Night chat when he can just give a legacy post (it's not like he hasn't caught up?) and in going with your plan we have to rely on Flarg (who you don't trust.)
Btw, potentially irrelevant now, but I don't think you ever addressed #1063 directly? Sorry if I missed it.
Do we even know for sure flarg has shots and if he did would even listen to us, they is multi ways to frame a vig or for a vig to lie about a kill not happening.
I also don't know what you expect Rod to say in our chat if he knows we both want him dead and vig will kill him anyway. He has had enough time today to put his views across and show why I don't see his approach changing much in our chat. I could agree to it if others agreed but I think this is a bad idea and could lead to more issues tomorrow.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Rod (5): Last, Tom, flarg, jack, zion
Tom (3): Rhand, Sloth, Vaimes
Zion (3): Tubba, Rod, ZDS
Not Voting (2): YWF, gj
Do we even know for sure flarg has shots and if he did would even listen to us, they is multi ways to frame a vig or for a vig to lie about a kill not happening.
I also don't know what you expect Rod to say in our chat if he knows we both want him dead and vig will kill him anyway. He has had enough time today to put his views across and show why I don't see his approach changing much in our chat. I could agree to it if others agreed but I think this is a bad idea and could lead to more issues tomorrow.
I could get behind a Vaimes lynch tbh or Rhand not sure on Zion I would much rather a vig shot there if Rod flipped town since I think one of the two is scum. I'm not really feeling a lynch on them today. Agree on Tom for today at least though.
My vote was not close to being hammer and when I thought it was by mistake I took it away in the same min.
It should 100% stay that way.
If i was yoloing a vig shot to try to hit scum, id go:
rod>vaimesrod>rhandResponsible/unselfish/informative shot is realistically zion either way but he <gut black magic ****ery> feels town
ftfy
Why are Jack and tubba blue and not green in yours tom?
That last part is a half joke, but I do think that might be what's going on.
tom's reasoning of why not Zion is a non-reason.
tubba/zion/last
as <black magic ****ery> and discount them completely if youre so inclined.
But in reality all 3 are combinations of meta, thread temperature/worldbuilding, some gut feels and black magic, and whatever else goes on in here.
Yes its the same sort of makeup as my kj read.
But historically im right more than im wrong
I care, just not enough, if Tom gets Lynch and flips town, yet again I'll be saying, "I told you so*
And people will be like, I THINK WISP HAS TMI"
and then repeat day 3 on someone who doesn't actually look wolfie, unless you like squint your eye really hard
Vaimes/Rhand/Rodemy/Zion
You? But I don't really believe that, if you somehow manage to flip wolf, I'll probably have to re-evalute somewhere
YMF is ok because I trust Sloth
Jackrito is probably closer to null still, but he is more of a townie null
GJ is like a shot in the dark still but again he doesn't feel malicious as of yet, I could probably move him to null, but I don't want to
(Except this site doesn't have an @ feature because why would that be useful???)
Do not shoot any of my cellmates.
You've been responding back to my case (in ways that don't truly address the points, as I've said and don't want to keep repeating), and you do it in a throughout way that leaves no doubt that at the very least you've read it closely.
That post of KJ's you're quoting here is on my case (I even highlighted part of it) and taken into account as one of the reads sludging towards you, like the rest: He even states in it and others that his only reason to believing you're probably town is because he thinks you believe the case.
I also state how throughout the rest of the Day he was worn worn down by your arguments ("I'm probably gonna die just by virtue of not being able to outargue Tom") that he knew were wrong (thus, tainted and not as valid).
As for the last post: Which is what happened: That post and the first red one were the only ones drive only by an assessment of you and your content, rather than just the impression you believe the case.
In conclusion: No. Bad tom. Stop misrepresenting. Very bad.
I noticed this post as well, but the thing is that (ironically) I was under the impression that rhand is too good a player to just suddenly switch gears like this when it's convenient and then switch back. I would have expected him to be more subtle about it as scum, and definitely work up a case and keep to it. Thoughts? Talk to me more about why this would have been a strong w/w for me? This would be on you/Last, right?
Noted, though.
Why didn't you respond to the bolded question I gave you?
Can do you a quick comparison on tubba v. KJ? I thought KJ was town, I think tubba is town, but I'm not seeing similarities.
Yeah this is bad.
First of all, you're a good vig target, as people keep saying. It is in no way unlikely that you won't be around tomorrow.
If it'll take 10 minutes tops, then do it, because if he has such low postcounts and yet you still think he's scummy despite what others say, you should definitely give us that.
You presenting a case now will not distract from the current wagons, but it'd be useful in later Days if we need to look back on Tubba. I would say you do owe us something like that as a protown move.
So...your refusal here is weird and gives the indication that your only issue with Tubba is that he's being townread rather than having a scumread on him. Response?
Weve both acknowledged that the charisma based play is just the way i am. Im acknowledging your interpretation and offering my own, charismatically.
Why should persuasion and dismissal be tools only wolves can use?
But yes KJ, as anyone as any alignment could under that kind of pressure, responded with an amount of omgus. You say he was right in the emotional reactions, i know he got it right in the logical middle.
Cool
As for rhand:
If i look back on my mafia influences, rhand (as both alignments) is one of the places i got the brazeness.
My favorite story is prisoner's dilemma, which had the mechanic of you could choose defect/cooperate and win if youre the only defector but multiple defections amd they all die...
Rhand was the only n0 defector
Its actions and words for him and i actually play much more like him in short phases and mashes for obvious reasons
The way i played with last is exactly how i treat ~strong buddies. Largely let them fend for themselves but push agendas together.
Other end of the spectrum, a newer/rustier partner id treat more like (respectively) tubba/zion. Help them establish footing in the thread until letting them fly on their own.
Im still not a wolf, but if i was thats how you teambuild around me.
Him and johnny are my most questionable greens
At the airport with the unwashed masses. Direct flight to a mile from my house where i will be self quarantining until... my industry recovers
And especially not with someone I respect so much.
But you’re still scum this game tom
Think my biggest influences are voxx and his ilk, nacho, chris, you, and seppel.
For better or worse on some of those.
Sadly I can’t hold on to it for long enough
My main influences would be Iso, Voxx and Generic I think, but I never really gave that any thought.
18 minute day phases!
Game takes an hour or so!
this is awesome :/
I feel like scum is controlling the game.
I’m so tired. I remodeled a chicken coop today.
just don’t kill me toDay. I got things to do toNight.
Happy to go back to tom but that wagon doesn’t seem to get traction and I like the zio lynch waaaay more than the rodemy lynch.
vote Zionite
The popin made me laugh though.
Because there is a stronger wagon that has done nothing for 2 days but complain about people voting him
Actually I can't remember if I just rolled my eyes or actually typed out how Sloth misunderstood it.
eh, moving on
I resent the notion that I've been "awful." Low-impact, perhaps, but I'm missing the step between that and awful.
Second of all, Tom has actually gone on record a couple of times, while responding to my case, stating that though he assures us all he's not scum in this game, what I'm describing is definitely within the realm of possibility for him when playing as scum. Also, I pointed out the tubba thing as flimsy.
Soooooo...what is the point of this statement?
The 'failsafe', if you want to call it that, would have been as simple as not being hyper-defensive on the hammer (or simply acknowledging it as the wrong move in hindsight), revisiting last Day and seeing what went wrong, not randomly vote you for the reasons she claims - plus half a dozen other little things that are more subjective and subtle.
Wouldn't have meant she's not scum, or erased any of the D1 moves, but would have made it so that I wouldn't be as sure.
Can I ask what makes you interested in this? I mean, despite my read I didn't vote KC at any point toDay and have expressed my utter lack of interest in voting Rod for non-content reasons.
Again with the coy. I think I'd prefer you just tell me actually.
I don't understand your sudden spike in agro towards Jack and Ter over their votes btw - they voted and unvoted pretty much immediately and commented that they were trying to avoid an L-1 hammer. How is that sequence one of scummy-intent?
Re: Lynching Z over KC; I'm not opposed to this - though I'm probably not the best to respond to it as I'm already not doing it - but why?
I'm unsure what can be gained from a Night chat conversation that can't from toDay: No one is exactly pressuring Rod (he's been more or less been written off) so he's free to give thoughts, legacies and to work out the game.
By your plan the only thing that changes is that he's an active force for an extra 48 more hours, "knowing" he's dead at the end of it as surely as he "knows" he's dead at the end of toDay, so it's no "safer" than he is now - and this is assuming that flarg even decides to shoot him as you envision.
What I'm saying is that I'm not seeing what the town benefit there is to this continuing in Night chat when he can just give a legacy post (it's not like he hasn't caught up?) and in going with your plan we have to rely on Flarg (who you don't trust.)
Btw, potentially irrelevant now, but I don't think you ever addressed #1063 directly? Sorry if I missed it.
Why Vaimes if Rod flips red? Or am I not reading that right?
Remember cell chat? Talk to me about Vaimes.