at least we'd be in a somewhat better game state if we had killed Rodemy regardless of his alignment
but here we are
I didn't want you dead, but your vote pissed me off
and solving you, opens up this game
but I'd hope you continue to try to figure out this game, so we have a legacy to go off of
i get it
Be pissed at me
I deserve it
Not a wolf.
Wolves possibly using this as an excuse?
Jack doesnt seem mad at all is that a thing?
I did the same thing to a degree so not really fair for me to be mad. The lack of lynch came because this game is split. I'm also not as sold you are scum as everyone else here, since I don't see you doing that on purpose as a wolf since it had no benefit the lynch may of still happened if zion voters swapped as well. They was another chances to confirm the lynch yesterday so we all need to share blame a bit.
I still think you need to die since 3 confirmed town think you are scum, the way rod talked about you last night made it sound like he knows you are flipping red as well, but this lynch bothers a bit still since it is all a bit easy,
so entirely sheeping sloth over yourself?
Kj and grape thought i was town
Zion and tubba sheeping sloth
Last just mad
@Tom
I have a question, what was the point of your vote change to Rhand
its hard to tell the exact time of your vote because I all see is, "2 days"
all I know is you did comment afterwards
ZDS/Flarg
being W/W means that ZDS pushed the mafia vig forcing him to claim, because profit?
Like I understand distancing but this is just stupid
I wish Jack would stop being so woe is me right now, cause my town read is fading, and I am confused
i was back and forth on them all day
Still am
Gj voted, felt like voting there
Intended to change back
My pop back in is when i died on playstation. Idk what time it was.
Said stuff while dead but jumped back in
Didnt remember i had moved my vote
My half hour before eod alarm went off.
Started to read
Loaded a new page and saw n2 in thread title
Cussed irl
Cussed in cell chat
Figured out what happened
Cussed some more
at least we'd be in a somewhat better game state if we had killed Rodemy regardless of his alignment
but here we are
I didn't want you dead, but your vote pissed me off
and solving you, opens up this game
but I'd hope you continue to try to figure out this game, so we have a legacy to go off of
i get it
Be pissed at me
I deserve it
Not a wolf.
Wolves possibly using this as an excuse?
Jack doesnt seem mad at all is that a thing?
I did the same thing to a degree so not really fair for me to be mad. The lack of lynch came because this game is split. I'm also not as sold you are scum as everyone else here, since I don't see you doing that on purpose as a wolf since it had no benefit the lynch may of still happened if zion voters swapped as well. They was another chances to confirm the lynch yesterday so we all need to share blame a bit.
I still think you need to die since 3 confirmed town think you are scum, the way rod talked about you last night made it sound like he knows you are flipping red as well, but this lynch bothers a bit still since it is all a bit easy,
so entirely sheeping sloth over yourself?
Kj and grape thought i was town
Zion and tubba sheeping sloth
Last just mad
Ftr.
Is that all youve got?
I'm not full on sheeping since not even voting you. I would rather Rod or Flarg die since I'm more sold on them as scum then you. Flarg on a mechanic and game play point of view. Rod just on game play.
After yesterday though they is no chance that you live today no matter what happens. All 3 confirmed town wanted you dead. If you are town scum can just jump on it with ease now as well.
Day 1 im pretty meh on. Played a very passive game, avoided any connections, blah blah blah.
Day 2 she came in hyper defensive.
Like, as town that hammer was "ok kj might be scum lets see the flip"
But then the explanation becomes "oh nothing was happening anyway it was time to kill him yada yada" and its such a guilty conscience
Her push on zds sucks, though theres allegedly more in the cellblock?
Rest of her pushes today arent good either.
Zion because day 1 but hes not here, and a noncommital DAE tubba, and thats it.
Think she was avoiding an overarching view and just trying to get lynches.
From this, zds prolly least likely partner.
Tubba to a lesser extent.
Zion meh for the avoidance but double meh because d1 and idk anymore
Rhand she was possibly making up mindmelds and asking for permission? A little weird if partners.
And all the appeasey hyperdefensive posts were towards johnny and ywf.
So ignoring all behavior only relevant to kcc flipping scum associative reads:
Zds/ywf
Gj/tubba
Rhand/zion
Everyone else
Havent seen anything like
Actively w/w
Her and rod both kinda antispewy.
I wanted to see his flip and there was nothing else to do D1
Also, I didn't want someone else to hammer first. If he was scum, I wanted to be able to say I helped lynch him D1. And if town, and he went down because I misread him and didn't defend him, I wanted to own that
Flarg was so pure in our cell chat that I am sure he's town.
I invite everyone to actually click the links in ZDS's case and compare them to what ZDS is saying. There's a lot of exaggerations and smears in there.
ZDS is using busswords like "self-conscious" and "opportunistic" in places where it's totally unwarranted.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
vote ZDS
I haven't read zdss case in thread yet, but the arguments made in our chat were awful. I'm still debating if it's some mix of rusty/overconfident/tunneled or willful ignorance.
Flarg is also one of my strongest townreads after reviewing him last Night
I'd rather lynch Zion, but grape being town moves zds squarely into my lynch pool
@rhand: Can you elaborate at all on Tubba? I don't have a great read on him from the thread
KCC what the hell? Why throw a hammer down early? Especially when we have a questionable lurker finally beginning to at least twitch and at least one player talking about how they want to do an ISO on the two wagons.
What do you consider early? Because I'm strongly against the sites current meta of lynches can only happen within 10 mins of deadline. That time is the maximum, not the minimum length. If someone wanted the lynch to wait, they should have said something.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
Do you want to take half, and I'll tackle the other?
Im really not seeing the world where she came in thinking she was doomed.
Shes explaining herself, forcing camraderie. She was gonna live imo
But if she was, i can see the argument that rhand isnt her partner. But that would make zds even less likely a buddy with that hesitation/possible TMI that hes rusty/etc
Looking at this makes me question rhand/kcc a little. I dont agree with the sloth premise but she did look like she wanted to work with rhand/share the blame for zds mislynch...
Anyway im at kccslot and rhand as most likely scum, but <rand together by an amount.
In conjunction with, well, liking rod and not necessarily wanting to kill him immediately...
I don't hate the Tom case as much as I thought I would given my prior TR of him, so I'm not opposed to lunching him, but I don't think he's our best wagon
Quote from Flarg »
unvote, vote zion
I just dont see a world in where that's Rodemy's claim if he's scum, given the earlier soft.
Sorry i need to look at colors i hope this is helping someone else too
Rodscum world
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake>rod
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
The idea of 3 all-town cell blocks is a little disconcerting but i guess it does say random in the OP...
Dont think theres a viable 4 man team with rod on it so flarg prolly nontown
Havent seen anything for or against them being buddies, but can easily be SK too so
Oh right. I was thinking the other way around about how ZDS suddenly went hard on not lynching Rod yesterDay.
I still think Rod is town, so I wasn’t looking at it from that perspective.
What I like about the tom wagon:
— We need proper answers;
— Even if we accept the **** up as accidental, he still made a needlessly risky move;
— I don't like his answer to why he moved his vote to Rhand in the first place, it's incomplete. @tom: Why did you move your vote if you intended to move it back? What were you trying to accomplish?
What I don't like about the tom wagon:
— I can't see the point of what he did if he is scum and did it intentionally;
— My main scum read that I spent the Night casing is going hard after him;
— Zionite flipped town and a tiomnite scumpair was one of the few ways I could see tom being scum.
Maybe I'm tunneling too hard and I just don't want to be wrong, but I'm still going to be a selfish prick and drop my Vaimes case next post. Besides, when there's an "obvious" lynch it's nice to have a counterwagon to make it more difficult for scum to hide among the angry mob.
If I can't get a wagon started on Vaimes I will happily join a Flarg wagon.
I might have said this already but i think "4 scum" and "scumvig" are mutually exclusive
There can be 3 scum with a (limited?) vig
Or 3 scum with an SK
4 scum with town vig
4 scum with SK pretty unlikely but maybe not 0%
I dont know the likelihood of this in a vacuum for 15 player
But 4 man scumteams look unlikely to me...
What I like about the tom wagon:
— We need proper answers;
— Even if we accept the **** up as accidental, he still made a needlessly risky move;
— I don't like his answer to why he moved his vote to Rhand in the first place, it's incomplete. @tom: Why did you move your vote if you intended to move it back? What were you trying to accomplish?
What I don't like about the tom wagon:
— I can't see the point of what he did if he is scum and did it intentionally;
— My main scum read that I spent the Night casing is going hard after him;
— Zionite flipped town and a tiomnite scumpair was one of the few ways I could see tom being scum.
Maybe I'm tunneling too hard and I just don't want to be wrong, but I'm still going to be a selfish prick and drop my Vaimes case next post. Besides, when there's an "obvious" lynch it's nice to have a counterwagon to make it more difficult for scum to hide among the angry mob.
If I can't get a wagon started on Vaimes I will happily join a Flarg wagon.
because i like wagoning even if im playing on mtgs and its somewhere between useless and a terrible idea
You may read this answer as "im an idiot" if you prefer
No excuse
Im into a vaimes case. Please. Hes in all my teambuilding and im overfocused on rod/rhand and *****
I have been suspecting Vaimes since pretty much as soon as my late entry into this game. Gentleman Johnny attacked him Day 1 for pretty much the same reasons I would have: he spams a lot, only skims the surface, is low on actual content.
Then Vaimes pulled the "it's my playstyle" defense, Johnny's attack turned into a friendly conversation about meta, and that was the end of that.
So when I decided to take a proper deep look at Vaimes, I went looking for his non-"fluffy" posts. If being "fluffy" is his playstyle and is NAI, then whatever remains when you filter out the spam are the AI posts.
In the spoiler below, you will find all of his posts that I thought hinted at some kind of deeper reflection (ie not surface level or completely non-telling stuff, such as his meta defense against Johnny). I also included his non-RVS votes since they are inherently telling, even though most of them come wrapped in fluff.
Read or skim them to get a better idea of how I reached my conclusions further down.
Quote from Vaimes 286 (not interesting, just here for the vote) »
I don't think it's really any one person's fault that the gamestate is the way it is. Nothing latch-worthy has really happened, and I suck at being proactive.
Let's try something.
Grape's townreads were something like me/tom/Wisp/KJ/Zionite? I'll throw Grape in there too for fun. And Sloth, to make Last happy. Leaves:
YWFMLF
Gentleman Johnny
Tubba Fett
Jackrito
KittyCupCake
ZeDorkSlipeur
FlargBlarg
Rhand
I don't have any real interest in killing Rhand/KCC/Tubba on Day 1.
YWFMLF
Jackrito
FlargBlarg
Found the lunch pool.
Unvote, vote YWFMLF
Quote from Vaimes 390 »
Can we all agree that YWF is Ter and Ter is YWF? I don't like typing YWF as much.
Ter, why bother with a wall when half of it isn't really saying much?
Quote from Vaimes 444 (also not interesting, just here for the vote) »
I'm kind of amused that people are now making noise about the PoE that I more or less made up and have no intention of seriously pursuing. Even though that was the whole point.
idk I guess I feel proud that I planted a seed and it grew instead of shriveling.
Unvote, vote tom
You know what to do.
Quote from Vaimes 445 »
Think my active towncore is KJ/Jack/Sloth/Flarg. Maybe Last.
Quote from Vaimes 490 »
Ter, I’ll get to you in a few hours. Not able to page through the thread right now.
Jack isn’t a lock. I think his posting is pure-ish. I liked how up front he was about liking playing scum, and the play here doesn’t reeeally support that meta (which I’m gonna take at face-value unless Last contradicts it).
Quote from Vaimes 639 (another uninteresting vote-post) »
Unvote, vote KJ
GJ, I’d say whatever you’re using to read my mind, teach me.
Quote from Vaimes 762 »
Kind of, but not really. I swished my townreads around, decided to lower you, and am currently going on this adventure. I certainly didn't think tom would come out with his "you were my top scumread all along!" magic trick.
I guess in a way you seem a bit more subdued. I'm used to you sticking your nose into everything, stepping on toes.
Quote from Vaimes 885 »
Catching up a bit.
Flarg is putting a ton of effort into questioning the KJ wagon, and I can't tell if it's just me, but I don't think he's done any of that for Zionite. "What makes Zionite scum and not just town having an off game?" and such. I don't get it.
Quote from Vaimes 892 »
Man, I was ready to drag GJ for wanting to CFD Flarg but now I'm thinking he was just ahead of his time. I'm looking at Flarg's approach to the Zionite wagon vs. the KJ wagon and going ????????.
Quote from Vaimes 896 »
Oh right. I wanted someone to post a VC because I was lazy.
s>v Grapefuit21, GJ, tom, Tubba
"Tubba is more proactive as scum" is....a possible thing, but probably not. tom kinda locked himself into pushing KJ, which I don't see as a scum ploy. GJ and Grape are both kinda eh, I think GJ is townier. Grape kinda came out swinging when he pushed Jack, but since then it's been crickets.
Quote from Vaimes 946 »
Not really. It's the opposite of my KJ read - she feels pretty smoothly consistent in her general demeanor.
Quote from Vaimes 1114 »
yesssss I got 1111
Sloth, V/LA is vacation/limited access. I was raised on DLP, but sadly born on MafiaScum where I first learned the term.
Your words/actions are really out of whack. How can you not have a read on a major wagon that you've spent a decent chunk of posts defending? Picking at a case is still a defense of the slot.
Quote from Vaimes 1157 »
I'm also guilty of mentally checking out a bit. tom's case is good, the execution is towny, I agree that KJ's play is reflective of rolling scum after a major meta-evolution, and there's probably scum!anger hidden in the blowback. As if this is the first time a meta read has been pushed on MTGS.
Kiiinda think the last minute scum!GJ pushers are being opportunistic when he said he wouldn't be here until/after Monday.
Quote from Vaimes 1442 »
Strange choice for a kill? Grape was definitely on my (and others') "hang him by his balls" list.
Vote ZDS
My only real hottake from that disaster of a lunch is that Zionite is town and KJ is unreadable.
Quote from Vaimes 1550 »
Unvote, vote GJ
Partly for three-way wagons, partly because I hated 1530.
I don't care much for ZDS' case but I like what it's doing.
Quote from Vaimes 1551 »
Tubba read dropped a bit, but I only really think he plays this way as scum if tom is his partner.
Last, tell me how you feel about things when you're back into caring mode.
Quote from Vaimes 1727 »
I know there's talk of Flarg being a SK, and that kinda makes me significantly less interested in the original case ZDS wrote up.
It's uh, pretty thorough though. Don't really see scum going from zero to a hundred like that, especially when ZDS wasn't ~significantly on anyone's radar.
No interest in lunching Sloth, tom, Zionite, Jack. Last and Rhand too but not as strong. I'm liking ZDS now that he's up and running, which I'll be honeset, I didn't expect to like him.
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake
E. FlargBlarg
Somehow this ended up being a PoE of one person from each cell, neat. I kinda wanna take Tubba off the list but I want to keep the ABCDE lineup.
Quote from Vaimes 1730 »
You misunderstand. I like what your case is doing for the gamestate, in terms of being the topic du jour.
I know this was written before the vig/SK thing came to light, but this is pretty much my main gripe with how Flarg's been approaching this game.
I'll think about it.
Quote from Vaimes 1749 »
If that’s how you want to see it, sure. I did mention he was falling down the rungs a bit but only really fits on a team with tom.
Quote from Vaimes 1783 (not interesting, just a vote) »
Unvote, vote Flarg
I can get behind the SK case, and the other wagons aren't really viable imo.
ZDS, if you actually want your vote to be productive, ask me about specific players? "Make a case" makes me want to take a nap instead.
Quote from Vaimes 1790 »
And honestly I expected Flarg to be on the warpath toDay, after being right about KJ and having ZDS drop a huge case on him.
Quote from Vaimes 1795 »
I don’t think Rhand is scum, and not much point in pushing Rod right now. Plus GJ and y2k are both people I think could be scum, but I recognize that I don’t have the oomph to whip up six votes.
Quote from Vaimes 1878 (not interesting, just a vote) »
[funny gif]Unvote, vote GJ
Quote from Vaimes 1972 (another shallow vote) »
Unvote, vote tom
Quote from Vaimes 2202 (yawn) »
Unvote, vote Rodemy
Don't know what the votes are at, but I'm going to be offline for all of tomorrow.
Fairly sure this isn't a hammer, so Rhand should be able to get his vote in.
Quote from Vaimes 2189 »
Rhand, re: Zionite, I think he's been composing himself in a way that's townier than Rod has here. Zionite hasn't cracked under two Day phases of pressure. Plus frozen-ish gamestate on Day 1 before tom launched his KJ crusade made it seem like scum were good with him dying.
That's a total of 19 posts worth giving a damn about, and 9 votes most of which are stuck in fluff-posts. If I missed anything, I'm sure Vaimes will gladly pull it up.
So now that we can read Vaimes minus the headache-inducing nothingness, what do we see?
The first thing I noticed is that even his deepest posts are still only about as deep as a deflated kiddie pool on a cold winter day.
The second thing I noticed is how bad his votes are. It doesn't help that most of them are individually *****, also look at this:
— YWF vote is borderline RVS, but the game was long past RVS at this point (it of course went nowhere);
— Same with the first tom vote (it also went nowhere);
— Watch him go from "towncore is KJ/etc." to "vote KJ" to a super weak explanation for his read shift;
— His me vote went nowhere too and could very well have been an RVS vote;
— His first Johnny vote was the closest he ever got to looking like he might be genuinely trying to start something... and it also went nowhere;
— He goes from losing interest in the Flarg case if he's SK to voting Flarg because he "can get behind the SK case";
— His second Johnny vote, while lolrandom, is pretty much the only consistent thing he's done (insert rimshot here);
— His second tom vote is pure shameless wagonning. By the way, did you notice I didn't quote anything from his tom push? That's because it was all shallow crap!;
— I don't know about the Rodemy vote, but it's worth noting for future analysis.
So to summarize:
— Even Vaimes actual content is extremely superficial;
— He likes to do nothing with his non-wagon votes and let most of them die without any follow up;
— He likes to flipflop so he can join some juicy wagons (KJ, Flarg).
"I'm fluffy lolol" is no excuse for the shallowness and his voting history is awful.
because i like wagoning even if im playing on mtgs and its somewhere between useless and a terrible idea
You may read this answer as "im an idiot" if you prefer
No excuse
All I get from this is I may never get a satisfying answer from you
I mean if you "like wagoning" why would you join the *****ty CFD attempt on Rhand?
Did you expect the wagon to grow fast enough to compete with the Rod & Zionite wagons?
Seeing them stripped from the fluff like that, a lot of his points are purely conditional.
Its starting from someone elses towncore, or comparing two reactions, or only if hes a wolf with tom, or why defend kj not zion
Push on me i cant be objective on but didnt feel right
To speak to playstyle, its not that hes fluffy its that he plays a social game. But hes definitely capable of accomplishing a lot more.
Hes not always proactive as town but he can be. And the only time i can get to a townread of him is when he does
He does have motivation problems as scum. Or at least he used to.
But if hes forcing it hard this is definitely what the iso looks like i think.
because i like wagoning even if im playing on mtgs and its somewhere between useless and a terrible idea
You may read this answer as "im an idiot" if you prefer
No excuse
All I get from this is I may never get a satisfying answer from you
I mean if you "like wagoning" why would you join the *****ty CFD attempt on Rhand?
Did you expect the wagon to grow fast enough to compete with the Rod & Zionite wagons?
no i dont think you will.
I didnt really like the zion wagon. Even as i was incorrectly reconsidering he might be scum towards eod and thought he needed to flip (slash should have n1) it still...
Already happened
I think it was a little rod vs rhand in my mind and i wanted that to be wagons
But really
Just irresponsible bull***** and it bit me/everyone
We are securing a lunch, at the very minimum, 48 hours in advance. No complaints.
This does not compute with our cell chat.
Vaimes said scum!tom wouldn’t leave a town!Rodemy wagon like that. With pretty strong wording.
Form that conclusion, Vaimes would want Rodemy to flip toDay because tom can only be scum if Rodemy is too.
I however said that tom is 100% mafia and Flarg agreed, so I think Vaimes sees tom as an easy flip now.
vote Vaimes
If this is correct, tom and ZDS are town and my whole worldview crumbles.
Tubba at least talk to me about kcc/rhand or something.
I think you know how bad sloths case was and if you can believe im more likely a stoner that uses alarms and changed timezones i think you can at least pretend to work with me til i die for it
Admittedly didn’t find sloth’s case that strong, I wouldn’t say any of those things are out of your range. Being capable of doing things as a wolf doesn’t mean you are doing them as a wolf. End of day two is just a terrible look for you though. You had thread presence and seemingly pissed it up a rope. My strongest reads are busts and I don’t trust my instincts anymore.
That said, I don’t see a world where townRod doesn’t get nuked at that point. The confusion it puts town in doesn’t seem worth the extra dead townie. My Rhand read hinges on how scummy Xion seemed in relation to him, kinda back to square one there and need to reread a bunch of this game. That’s the big problem for me right now.
I have skimmed and trying to regather my thoughts. I don't know why tom is taking all the blame for being on Rhand when I was the one that tried to do the CFD. I just honestly forgot MTGS doesn't do plurality anymore. I haven't played in a year+, and have for the most part, when I get the itch, go to MU, since this site just doesn't like my computer or phone.
I don't think tom coming in, and popping out at the end is wolfy. I could buy the time zone thing because honestly, mountain is very uncommonly used in the business world. If I didn't have a job in truck dispatch, I wouldn't have known what that meant. Even if Rod is a wolf, I think tom would just try for the bus credit, especially when Rod is in the flash zone.
Muiltishot wolf vig is just me washing my hands of this game. Flarg is town or an sk.
@Rodemy
so you are just going to call me stupid because in a world where you are town, you are so obvious town and I am dumb for not seeing it, or are you actually going to read your own posts and tell me how bad some of them are
@GJ
I have skimmed and trying to regather my thoughts. I don't know why tom is taking all the blame for being on Rhand when I was the one that tried to do the CFD.
I am a little lost, like second half is just a big discredit, but the third half is weird if GJ is a wolf, maybe thats a red herring though
I really think we to mass claim here. 3 masons and an X>1 shot vig. And whatever Rhand is softing. Who knows what else. Mafia kills are pretty set, and I have no clue how close we are to Mislynch/lynch or lose.
I really think we to mass claim here. 3 masons and an X>1 shot vig. And whatever Rhand is softing. Who knows what else. Mafia kills are pretty set, and I have no clue how close we are to Mislynch/lynch or lose.
but the third half is
Math can be a touch tricky.
I have skimmed and trying to regather my thoughts.
I don't know why tom is taking all the blame for being on Rhand
when I was the one that tried to do the CFD.
We are securing a lunch, at the very minimum, 48 hours in advance. No complaints.
This does not compute with our cell chat.
Vaimes said scum!tom wouldn’t leave a town!Rodemy wagon like that. With pretty strong wording.
Form that conclusion, Vaimes would want Rodemy to flip toDay because tom can only be scum if Rodemy is too.
I however said that tom is 100% mafia and Flarg agreed, so I think Vaimes sees tom as an easy flip now.
vote Vaimes
If this is correct, tom and ZDS are town and my whole worldview crumbles.
wait flarg thought i was 100% scum and shot zion?
I think vaimes votes on me, both today and after sloth case, feel more like he thinks im vulnerable than he thinks im scum.
Doesnt track with the townvaimes in my mind thats, to be fair, ~always willing to lynch me and possibly even excited about it. But here its too businesslike
Or something
Tubba at least talk to me about kcc/rhand or something.
I think you know how bad sloths case was and if you can believe im more likely a stoner that uses alarms and changed timezones i think you can at least pretend to work with me til i die for it
Admittedly didn’t find sloth’s case that strong, I wouldn’t say any of those things are out of your range. Being capable of doing things as a wolf doesn’t mean you are doing them as a wolf. End of day two is just a terrible look for you though. You had thread presence and seemingly pissed it up a rope. My strongest reads are busts and I don’t trust my instincts anymore.
That said, I don’t see a world where townRod doesn’t get nuked at that point. The confusion it puts town in doesn’t seem worth the extra dead townie. My Rhand read hinges on how scummy Xion seemed in relation to him, kinda back to square one there and need to reread a bunch of this game. That’s the big problem for me right now.
i mean the world with townrod def feels like a scum sitting back thing. Even if theres 2 on him or whatever they wouldnt have really cared about much thats happened this game.
Rhand is just all over the place, everyday he latches on to someone new to push
What happened to everyone else? Where is the progression?
I maybe over exxagerating his vote now that I think about it
Find me someone who isn't changing their reads lol.
The Zionite townflip + Vaimes who might have slipped make me step back and reshuffle my reads.
The whole KillJoy thing doesn't make much sense from a scum!tom with Zio being town. And tom would not have jumped off the Rodemy wagon as scum unless Rodemy is scum. Rodemy / KCC is one of the reasons I should reread, especially with Zionite flipping town. My whole worldview was tied to him being mafia.
Rodemy might well be mafia with how both wagons stalled yesterDay. No lynches shouldn't happen with two big town wagons unless most of the mafia is inactive. But that's purely a gamestate read; I have a hard time seeing KCC as behaviorally scum.
ZDS going hard at Vaimes now clears ZDS IF Vaimes flips scum. ZDS is still on my radar.
Vaimes / Rodemy / ? vs tom / ZDS / ?
I think GJ is a good fill for both ? slots.
Anyways, will reread over the coming days. Belgium is in semi-lockdown anyways, so not much to do
Kj and grape thought i was town
Zion and tubba sheeping sloth
Last just mad
Ftr.
Is that all youve got?
Still am
Gj voted, felt like voting there
Intended to change back
My pop back in is when i died on playstation. Idk what time it was.
Said stuff while dead but jumped back in
Didnt remember i had moved my vote
My half hour before eod alarm went off.
Started to read
Loaded a new page and saw n2 in thread title
Cussed irl
Cussed in cell chat
Figured out what happened
Cussed some more
Fin
I'm not full on sheeping since not even voting you. I would rather Rod or Flarg die since I'm more sold on them as scum then you. Flarg on a mechanic and game play point of view. Rod just on game play.
After yesterday though they is no chance that you live today no matter what happens. All 3 confirmed town wanted you dead. If you are town scum can just jump on it with ease now as well.
Do you just think i should die or think im scum?
What do you get from my flip either way?
for now
I need to think
KJ(8): Tubba, Vaimes, Tom, GJ,Grape, Zion, Rhand, KCCodemyZion(3):sloth, Jack, YWFgrape(1):KJNot Voting (3): ZDS, Last, Flarg
Rod (6): Last, Vaimes, YWF,
Zion, GJ, JackZion(4): Tubba, ZDS, Flarg, RhandRhand (2): tom, Rod
Tom (1):
SlothRod flipping red i think confirms ywf/zds town, gj possibly too.
Leaving rhand, jack, vaimes, flarg
And ive got a question marks on some of them
But if hes town its like
Oh ***** idk
I ****ed it up so bad
It is kinda hard to imagine town vig with 3 wolves
Sk or wolf vig...
Maybe.
Town vig fits with 4 wolves though
explain these two posts
talk to me about these two posts @Flarg
Two EODs where ur vote change was based on a claim, which for the most part should do nothing
Rodscum world
A.
Grapefuit21A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B.
KilljoyB. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C.
SlothfulC. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake>rod
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
The idea of 3 all-town cell blocks is a little disconcerting but i guess it does say random in the OP...
Dont think theres a viable 4 man team with rod on it so flarg prolly nontown
Havent seen anything for or against them being buddies, but can easily be SK too so
KJ(8): Tubba, Vaimes, Tom, GJ,Grape, Zion, Rhand, KCCodemyZion(3):sloth, Jack, YWFgrape(1):KJNot Voting (3): ZDS, Last, Flarg
Rod (6): Last, Vaimes, YWF,
Zion, GJ, JackZion(4): Tubba, ZDS, Flarg, RhandRhand (2): tom, Rod
Tom (1):
SlothJack prolly stands out most
Flarg wants clean hands but that doesnt help between scumvig and sk
You disagree?
I still think Rod is town, so I wasn’t looking at it from that perspective.
Time for a reread.
KJ(8): Tubba, Vaimes, Tom, GJ,Grape, Zion, Rhand, KCCodemyZion(3):sloth, Jack, YWFgrape(1):KJNot Voting (3): ZDS, Last, Flarg
Rod (6): Last, Vaimes, YWF,
Zion, GJ, JackZion(4): Tubba, ZDS, Flarg, RhandRhand (2): tom, rod
Tom (1):
SlothScum have never HAD to make any choices in this world.
Most important unaligns are like
Zds/flarg
Gj/rhand?
Pretty ugh all around
But this world feels like maybe were devouring ourselves and scum sitting back
Something in a rhand/jack/vaimes/gj/flarg pool of molasses zds/ywf have at least tried to accomplish things
Im not actually sure i can reconcile that with
Anything really
But hes got a lot more drive than those 3
— We need proper answers;
— Even if we accept the **** up as accidental, he still made a needlessly risky move;
— I don't like his answer to why he moved his vote to Rhand in the first place, it's incomplete.
@tom: Why did you move your vote if you intended to move it back? What were you trying to accomplish?
What I don't like about the tom wagon:
— I can't see the point of what he did if he is scum and did it intentionally;
— My main scum read that I spent the Night casing is going hard after him;
— Zionite flipped town and a tiomnite scumpair was one of the few ways I could see tom being scum.
Maybe I'm tunneling too hard and I just don't want to be wrong, but I'm still going to be a selfish prick and drop my Vaimes case next post. Besides, when there's an "obvious" lynch it's nice to have a counterwagon to make it more difficult for scum to hide among the angry mob.
If I can't get a wagon started on Vaimes I will happily join a Flarg wagon.
Maybe scumvig and replaces vaimes
I might have said this already but i think "4 scum" and "scumvig" are mutually exclusive
There can be 3 scum with a (limited?) vig
Or 3 scum with an SK
4 scum with town vig
4 scum with SK pretty unlikely but maybe not 0%
I dont know the likelihood of this in a vacuum for 15 player
But 4 man scumteams look unlikely to me...
Flarg is probably not town
You may read this answer as "im an idiot" if you prefer
No excuse
Im into a vaimes case. Please. Hes in all my teambuilding and im overfocused on rod/rhand and *****
Then Vaimes pulled the "it's my playstyle" defense, Johnny's attack turned into a friendly conversation about meta, and that was the end of that.
So when I decided to take a proper deep look at Vaimes, I went looking for his non-"fluffy" posts. If being "fluffy" is his playstyle and is NAI, then whatever remains when you filter out the spam are the AI posts.
In the spoiler below, you will find all of his posts that I thought hinted at some kind of deeper reflection (ie not surface level or completely non-telling stuff, such as his meta defense against Johnny). I also included his non-RVS votes since they are inherently telling, even though most of them come wrapped in fluff.
Read or skim them to get a better idea of how I reached my conclusions further down.
So now that we can read Vaimes minus the headache-inducing nothingness, what do we see?
The first thing I noticed is that even his deepest posts are still only about as deep as a deflated kiddie pool on a cold winter day.
The second thing I noticed is how bad his votes are. It doesn't help that most of them are individually *****, also look at this:
— YWF vote is borderline RVS, but the game was long past RVS at this point (it of course went nowhere);
— Same with the first tom vote (it also went nowhere);
— Watch him go from "towncore is KJ/etc." to "vote KJ" to a super weak explanation for his read shift;
— His me vote went nowhere too and could very well have been an RVS vote;
— His first Johnny vote was the closest he ever got to looking like he might be genuinely trying to start something... and it also went nowhere;
— He goes from losing interest in the Flarg case if he's SK to voting Flarg because he "can get behind the SK case";
— His second Johnny vote, while lolrandom, is pretty much the only consistent thing he's done (insert rimshot here);
— His second tom vote is pure shameless wagonning. By the way, did you notice I didn't quote anything from his tom push? That's because it was all shallow crap!;
— I don't know about the Rodemy vote, but it's worth noting for future analysis.
So to summarize:
— Even Vaimes actual content is extremely superficial;
— He likes to do nothing with his non-wagon votes and let most of them die without any follow up;
— He likes to flipflop so he can join some juicy wagons (KJ, Flarg).
"I'm fluffy lolol" is no excuse for the shallowness and his voting history is awful.
Vote Vaimes
I mean if you "like wagoning" why would you join the *****ty CFD attempt on Rhand?
Did you expect the wagon to grow fast enough to compete with the Rod & Zionite wagons?
Seeing them stripped from the fluff like that, a lot of his points are purely conditional.
Its starting from someone elses towncore, or comparing two reactions, or only if hes a wolf with tom, or why defend kj not zion
Push on me i cant be objective on but didnt feel right
To speak to playstyle, its not that hes fluffy its that he plays a social game. But hes definitely capable of accomplishing a lot more.
Hes not always proactive as town but he can be. And the only time i can get to a townread of him is when he does
He does have motivation problems as scum. Or at least he used to.
But if hes forcing it hard this is definitely what the iso looks like i think.
Sure ill join
vote vaimes
I didnt really like the zion wagon. Even as i was incorrectly reconsidering he might be scum towards eod and thought he needed to flip (slash should have n1) it still...
Already happened
I think it was a little rod vs rhand in my mind and i wanted that to be wagons
But really
Just irresponsible bull***** and it bit me/everyone
My memory of it + your description is a little like...
Flourishy feints at eachother then peter off
Rhand kinda questionmarky partners with rod, gj
I don’t like this post. sounds waaaaay too forced.
This does not compute with our cell chat.
Vaimes said scum!tom wouldn’t leave a town!Rodemy wagon like that. With pretty strong wording.
Form that conclusion, Vaimes would want Rodemy to flip toDay because tom can only be scum if Rodemy is too.
I however said that tom is 100% mafia and Flarg agreed, so I think Vaimes sees tom as an easy flip now.
vote Vaimes
If this is correct, tom and ZDS are town and my whole worldview crumbles.
Last is just wrong about everything tbh.
sorry bud.
Admittedly didn’t find sloth’s case that strong, I wouldn’t say any of those things are out of your range. Being capable of doing things as a wolf doesn’t mean you are doing them as a wolf. End of day two is just a terrible look for you though. You had thread presence and seemingly pissed it up a rope. My strongest reads are busts and I don’t trust my instincts anymore.
That said, I don’t see a world where townRod doesn’t get nuked at that point. The confusion it puts town in doesn’t seem worth the extra dead townie. My Rhand read hinges on how scummy Xion seemed in relation to him, kinda back to square one there and need to reread a bunch of this game. That’s the big problem for me right now.
Vaimes (4): ZeDorkSlipeur, Tomsloger, Rhand, Rodemy
Tomsloger (3): Vaimes, YWFMLF, Tubba Fett
Not Voting (4): Jackrito, FlargBlarg, Gentleman Johnny, Lastwhisper
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is March 25th at 2000 MST.
Rhand, tom is a million times harder to lunch. We need as many non-scum alive to get rid of him, otherwise he’ll slip through the cracks.
ZDS I’ll deal with you later.
No claim from me just yet.
I don't think tom coming in, and popping out at the end is wolfy. I could buy the time zone thing because honestly, mountain is very uncommonly used in the business world. If I didn't have a job in truck dispatch, I wouldn't have known what that meant. Even if Rod is a wolf, I think tom would just try for the bus credit, especially when Rod is in the flash zone.
Muiltishot wolf vig is just me washing my hands of this game. Flarg is town or an sk.
More to come. Vaimes/Rod I want for wagons.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What happened to everyone else? Where is the progression?
I maybe over exxagerating his vote now that I think about it
so you are just going to call me stupid because in a world where you are town, you are so obvious town and I am dumb for not seeing it, or are you actually going to read your own posts and tell me how bad some of them are
@GJ
I am a little lost, like second half is just a big discredit, but the third half is weird if GJ is a wolf, maybe thats a red herring though
I really think we to mass claim here. 3 masons and an X>1 shot vig. And whatever Rhand is softing. Who knows what else. Mafia kills are pretty set, and I have no clue how close we are to Mislynch/lynch or lose.
Math can be a touch tricky.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I have skimmed and trying to regather my thoughts.
I don't know why tom is taking all the blame for being on Rhand
when I was the one that tried to do the CFD.
my brain split it like that, sue me
I think vaimes votes on me, both today and after sloth case, feel more like he thinks im vulnerable than he thinks im scum.
Doesnt track with the townvaimes in my mind thats, to be fair, ~always willing to lynch me and possibly even excited about it. But here its too businesslike
Or something
It was basically the lynch instead of the no lynch.
Idk did yall talk about shots? Vaimes or you try to convince him to shoot me? Talk about rod?
Find me someone who isn't changing their reads lol.
The Zionite townflip + Vaimes who might have slipped make me step back and reshuffle my reads.
The whole KillJoy thing doesn't make much sense from a scum!tom with Zio being town. And tom would not have jumped off the Rodemy wagon as scum unless Rodemy is scum. Rodemy / KCC is one of the reasons I should reread, especially with Zionite flipping town. My whole worldview was tied to him being mafia.
Rodemy might well be mafia with how both wagons stalled yesterDay. No lynches shouldn't happen with two big town wagons unless most of the mafia is inactive. But that's purely a gamestate read; I have a hard time seeing KCC as behaviorally scum.
ZDS going hard at Vaimes now clears ZDS IF Vaimes flips scum. ZDS is still on my radar.
Vaimes / Rodemy / ? vs tom / ZDS / ?
I think GJ is a good fill for both ? slots.
Anyways, will reread over the coming days. Belgium is in semi-lockdown anyways, so not much to do
Curious.
It could be a vaimes Last GJ team. And I would Be not surprised tbh.
I never called you stupid. Just wrong. Why are you twisting my words?
Derp clear denied.
Vote Rodemy
The GJ way path to no lynching: