///This post written before seeing Flarge's claim///
Ok, so right off the bat: If you read the claim before posting this, then you shouldn't have posted it. You should have changed it as needed, because otherwise it's knowingly posting to Town arguments made with incomplete information and that muddles what town knows and confuses the picture so why would you do it?
I might tackle this post more when I have time/computer. For the love of god, please start using quotes, if clicking on the links was annoying in a laptop, it is a ******* NIGHTMARE on mobile
Biggest takeaway here is that I want to see your Vaimes case.
About the arguments with Tom: What I'm saying is that if his intention for arguing with Tom about meta arguments was to play it safe, then it super did not work, even back in D1; like I mentioned tongue-in-cheek, you're not the first one to look at him as possible scum.
939 was the post you described as "completely passive" and was in response to Z's wall. Except now you're saying it's a "perfectly fine post" and one of "the few times he attacks Zionite" so you just contradicted yourself, so what up?
Reasonably sure they're town: Ter, Last, Tubba, Vaimes. Definitely lynch outside of these.
Can you walk me through your Vaimes town read?
Actually, you can take Vaimes off from that list, in light of Flarg's claim: Before this point, I was pretty certain that Vaimes was the vig.
I still have a townlean on him, just based on tone and content, but obviously nowhere near as strong.
Actually scratch the last line above, I have a better idea.
@FlargeBlarge Would you be willing to kill yourself toNight?
My plan is:
- 1) ToDay we lynch someone who actually has a chance of being mafia;
- 2) ToNight Flarge vigs himself if he's town, thus not becoming a mislynch later down the road;
- 3) Day 3 we lynch Flarge if he didn't kill himself, because he has no more excuses at this point.
Part 3 can be delayed if we or he hit mafia, but I don't like playing with fire.
If Flarge isn't okay with this plan we just lynch him now.
Also, ******* what. LOL
I need you to slow your roll here. Everyone else's already yelled at you over this and you replied stating you dont actually want to do this, but whoever said you're doing a witch trial from Monty Python, they're totes right.
ftr, Im not totally against this - assuming they can even self-target (probably not) it'd be a good way to settle flarg if he's still alive D5-D6, but not freaking D2. I think you need to watch yourself for conf!bias.
Why does an SK hit Grape, Dork?
Ok about all this SK talk...
Did we not have a talk on D1, where it was stated that Shadow would not introduce a bastard element like this on us without letting us know?
Am I just not understanding what bastard/sk/multiball means? Is SK a real possibility???
Bye again.
Not sure what to tell you my dude. You strung unrelated things that arent even my opinions together thats the best answer youre getting
Quote from tom »
Speaking here mainly of GJ and rhand, but grape, zion and vaimes with some of it too. Specifically gj made sure that any blowback on his kj push would land on me, which felt iffy at the time and worse with flip.
I misread one of your kcc reads which you answered strangely and I mistook (you said she was closer to the center of the KJ flip), and your wolf read on me is pretty clear. Do me a favor, and don't play coy when you are being purposefully indirect.
Not sure what to tell you my dude. You strung unrelated things that arent even my opinions together thats the best answer youre getting
Quote from tom »
Speaking here mainly of GJ and rhand, but grape, zion and vaimes with some of it too. Specifically gj made sure that any blowback on his kj push would land on me, which felt iffy at the time and worse with flip.
I misread one of your kcc reads which you answered strangely and I mistook (you said she was closer to the center of the KJ flip), and your wolf read on me is pretty clear. Do me a favor, and don't play coy when you are being purposefully indirect.
also zds exists?
I am happy to put him as town lean because I dont think a wolf does what he does
but thats pretty much for now, and probably doesnt stick unless he starts being explicitly townie
Your post to Flarg is literally a "throw the woman into the lake" witch test. If he doesn't shoot himself, HE'S A WOLF (or sk potentially). If he dies, he's TOWN.
It's not "(or sk potentially)", it's "HE'S THE SK". You haven't been paying attention to latest developments.
Quote from Rhand »
Looks to me like ZDS caught himself in the old neutral hunting scumtell.
He goes from wanting him dead to saying that lynching the SK doesn’t give info but still wanting to lynch him.
And the result of his plan would be to still lynch Flarg anyways because he knows it's a plan Flarg can't agree with as any alignment.
I'm such a good neutral hunter that one of my other scumreads (Vaimes) is partially based on (now completely moot) scumbuddy interactions with the SK. That makes sense. Sarcasm aside, that "gotcha" is just pure laziness.
Look, I am not going to complain that I found the SK while looking for scum and I'm not going to let him live long either, even if lynching mafia toDay would technically be better.
@Slothful: Serial Killers are extremely common here (at least they were back in my days) and not at all considered bastard. Unannounced multiball (ie literally several scumteams) and cults are.
I was going to yell at you for asking the vig to counterclaim (instead of silently sniping Flarge) or for suggesting we wait until Day 5~6 to "settle flarg if he's still alive [by then]" (when we could be in a kingmaker scenario at this point where the town cannot win anymore), but if you are acting under the assumption SKs are a rarity then that explains a lot.
///This post written before seeing Flarge's claim///
Ok, so right off the bat: If you read the claim before posting this, then you shouldn't have posted it. You should have changed it as needed, because otherwise it's knowingly posting to Town arguments made with incomplete information and that muddles what town knows and confuses the picture so why would you do it?
I might tackle this post more when I have time/computer. For the love of god, please start using quotes, if clicking on the links was annoying in a laptop, it is a ******* NIGHTMARE on mobile
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
Re Sloth's #1586
Biggest takeaway here is that I want to see your Vaimes case.
About the arguments with Tom: What I'm saying is that if his intention for arguing with Tom about meta arguments was to play it safe, then it super did not work, even back in D1; like I mentioned tongue-in-cheek, you're not the first one to look at him as possible scum.
939 was the post you described as "completely passive" and was in response to Z's wall. Except now you're saying it's a "perfectly fine post" and one of "the few times he attacks Zionite" so you just contradicted yourself, so what up?
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
Re Sloth's #1588
Not a good reason to townread Tom, fyi.
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
Quote from Slothful »
Reasonably sure they're town: Ter, Last, Tubba, Vaimes. Definitely lynch outside of these.
Can you walk me through your Vaimes town read?
Actually, you can take Vaimes off from that list, in light of Flarg's claim: Before this point, I was pretty certain that Vaimes was the vig.
I still have a townlean on him, just based on tone and content, but obviously nowhere near as strong.
/high fives!
On changing my post based on new info: So you would be okay with me retroactively changing my views and my thought processes? Or am I misunderstanding you? Wouldn't it "muddle what the town knows" even more if players started using hindsight to change their posts "as needed"?
You asked questions about my reads and my case on Flarge, how would you tell whether I've been sincere or bull*****ting all along if I answered with Flarge's claim in mind? I'm trying to make it easy to analyse me and hard to misconstrue or misinterpret my original intent, how would doing what you say not result in the exact opposite?
Again, if I completely misunderstood you please tell me and explain yourself. Vaimes case: I plan to start working on it this afternoon (2pm here) since there's a lull, I may or may not post it toDay (it will depend on how strong I think it is). On 939: Yeah I did contradict myself. I didn't remember mentioning it in the case because I have such good memory and because I didn't refer to it by its post number. Go me, that's how you write a case well (not really).
Anyway, now that I know to click on "completely passive" and I've read 939 for the Nth time, I must say I completely agree with everything I've said about this post, contradiction included. On its own it's fine, and one of the few instances where Flarge attacked Zionite, and it's also an incredibly passive post in which the focus is far more on defending himself than on leading the wagon he was supposedly leading.
This is a post that reads differently depending on if you look at the big picture or if you analyse it individually, and I stand by both my stances on it.
Not Voting (4): FlargBlarg, Tubba Fett, Zionite, Slothful
There hasn't been any motion for a while. @People NOT voting KCC: Why? @People NOT voting me: Why? @People NOT voting Flarge: Why? @Vaimes &@Whispy: Aren't you lonely? Do you plan to do anything about it? @Flarge & @Sloth: Why aren't you voting at all? Please vote. (This also goes for @Tubba, but at least Tubba isn't active.)
Our Night chat left me with a good impression on KCC even if I think her pro-Flarge arguments are wrong. I want to see if she can bring the same level of attention to details to the public thread. Meanwhile, I do like some of the arguments made by her attackers, especially YWF's case, but I'm not convinced she had scummy intent.
I'm not going to vote myself. Also, I had a good early impression on Rhand from the effort he put into dismantling (parts of) my case, but his arguments have been getting weaker and now it looks like he's throwing anything he can to see if something sticks. KCC has promised more but disappeared.
It's not "(or sk potentially)", it's "HE'S THE SK". You haven't been paying attention to latest developments.
Enlighten me, because all I see is a vig claim and a one death night.
Quote from tom »
Wouldnt want people to have to read full sentences to know my reads
I would strongly, strongly suggest not poking the bear. Here was the post that caused my confusion:
Of the three id say jack>zds>kcc town>scum
My misreading of it is my problem. But my left to right read was that you were saying those three were more likely town than wolves, as I read your town > wolf read as = more likely town over scum. Considering it was right next to this post:
Thinking about D made me want to look at the others.
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
If there was 1 in each cell...
Ywf/gj/last/kcc/rhand
Thats not teambuilding that would be dumb thats in a vacuum
E seems shadiest but just by virtue of having no one townie in it. B if youd asked me before kj flip...
D remains actively discordant. None of C seem to agree on anything either?
Most likely all-town group... probably mine, C, or D.
If i could kill a group outright...
Well B kills my current vote and reveals zions alignment that feels like the best move.
But i might choose E those flips almost would have to break this ***** open
Where it looks like you want me Zion, and the three you want to flip being Flarg, Rhand, and Vaimes, I don't think it is super unreasonable for me to think you had a KCC mid/lean town read.
That was my thought process, and that's why with that assumption, when you went from voting me, to voting with me, I raised an eyebrow. Considering every other list you posted was color coded and up to down, it threw me off.
@Slothful Are you sure you were shot last Night, or are you assuming they did because you are so used to being the N1 kill? This is relevant to figuring out who the scum might not want us to look at.
100% sure: Got Mod confirmation.
More on KC later.
@Slothful Are you sure you were shot last Night, or are you assuming they did because you are so used to being the N1 kill? This is relevant to figuring out who the scum might not want us to look at.
100% sure: Got Mod confirmation.
More on KC later.
Johnny, why aren't you paying attention?
I am. Sloth would have made sense as a mafia nk. Do you disagree?
@Tubba: I'm not, but I'm townreading him so I trust him.
@Johnny: I do agree, and you are confusing me.
Hold on, I ISO'd you to re-check your stance on Flarg and there's a post of you I missed (pot, kettle, yadda yadda) thanks to the awful preview function.
@ZDS: I don't get why you dislike me balancing between Flarg and Rhand. They are both secondary ideas that I am researching because I made my points about KCC, but she wasn't here. Like, what do you want me to do: Shoot some ***** and talk about how townie people are that I am already seeing? Try to figure out tubba and be wrong for the 5th time?
Flarg has no real pressure other than you. I don't know why he'd out as a vig when he absolutely didn't have to if he was sk or wolf.
Trying to decide if LW's earlier post was TMI. Probably not as grape is a strange enough kill that I would guess vig. My issue is the lack of 2nd kill that I feels makes that assumption a coinflip.
Client needs bank account numbe if she wants to not wait a few months for a tax return check, so time for GJ
Re balancing: Fine.
Re Flarg's claim: You are right that he didn't have to claim as SK or wolf, but he also didn't have to claim as town, not with the low amount of pressure on him.
Also, according to himself he claimed because he was losing motivation, which could very well mean nothing at all but if it does mean something, then I'd wager it's easier to lose motivation in this context as third party than as any other alignment: there was very little actual pressure on him, mostly just one guy barking into the wind, but several players were looking in his direction and he had few defenders.
Anyway, this is all irrelevant, I shot Grape. Cell can more-or-less confirm it, I never said "I'm gonna shoot Grape" but I got pretttttty close.
Can you guys move onto something useful now so I can get my motivation for playing back? I'm gonna go actually do the thing I promised and read back on some of the cases and see where I fall on that.
But more importantly and more related to you, is his claim a reason to stop analysing him? You had him fairly low in your reads list, did you see the unprompted claim and thought "sure, no problem"? Are you fine with him now just because "he didn't have to claim"?
Re lack of second kill: I'm still confused. Flarg claimed the kill on Grape and Sloth claimed an attempt was made to kill him. That's two kills accounted for. What's the problem? Are you assuming there should have been three kills (mafia+vig+sk) and if so why?
---
Vaimes should be back soon-ish so... Vaimes, tell me how you feel about things when you're back into caring mode.
I know there's talk of Flarg being a SK, and that kinda makes me significantly less interested in the original case ZDS wrote up.
It's uh, pretty thorough though. Don't really see scum going from zero to a hundred like that, especially when ZDS wasn't ~significantly on anyone's radar.
No interest in lunching Sloth, tom, Zionite, Jack. Last and Rhand too but not as strong. I'm liking ZDS now that he's up and running, which I'll be honeset, I didn't expect to like him.
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake
E. FlargBlarg
Somehow this ended up being a PoE of one person from each cell, neat. I kinda wanna take Tubba off the list but I want to keep the ABCDE lineup.
Re Vaimes's #1550 Were you trying to accomplish anything with your vote on me? If you like what the case on me is doing, why not keep your vote to maintain the pressure?
You misunderstand. I like what your case is doing for the gamestate, in terms of being the topic du jour.
To summarise my issues with him and why he has a scum mindset, FlargBlarg has been acting as a "voice of reason", and that makes his posts look fine from a distance. But if you break past the shell of generically reasonable stances and explanations, you will find nearly all of his posts (with too few exceptions) are hollow. In fact, you could remove all of his posts and votes and absolutely nothing would change.
That kind of posting does not come from someone more interested in scumhunting than in self-preservation, it comes from someone whose primary objective is to always be able to explain away anything they did. I know from experience in having played like this as scum how easy it is to get away with being astonishingly scummy if you have a logical, reasonable explanation for everything. It's an exploit of the common biases towards thinking logical = right and reasonable = good/town.
I know this was written before the vig/SK thing came to light, but this is pretty much my main gripe with how Flarg's been approaching this game.
Vaimes continues to screw around in the back, doing nothing and skimming off the top. (not still mad about that).
salt salt salt
I don't think you actually care about solving me. I've really never been that hard to read. You'd think after you made a point of slotting me with KJ in your headspace that you'd take an extra hard look at me, but it seems like you'd rather "meh Vaimes is bad" at me from a distance.
-
No one's gonna break up my multiposts, are they. I might just pick this up later, I don't feel like formatting a huge post.
It's a bad question, and ZDS' case is spotlight-stealing.
It was solving, and it didn't involve Rhand. Rhand also did nothing for moving the spotlight out which made me hate it even more.
Hard to solve you when you run off for a week. And while your right that I haven't been laser focused on you, lot of people to deal with. Don't worry your pretty little head.
Also v/la or not, why no push or shove on Zionite today?
1) Because you were very low on content compared to your postcount.
2) Because both Flarg and Vaimes townread him. I'm still iffy about him, but our chat made me not want to pursue that toDay.
That's a terrible reason. People ***** post. Are you going to tell me every one of KJ's post was content? The question you should be asking is the content that is coming out is town mindset or wolf mindset.
You do understand that your cellmates are not cleared, yes?
Yes I know. But Flarg’s carefree posts in cell chat + his claim now are enough for me. I don’t think he’s mafia and if he’s SK he’ll have to kill in the POE anyways after his vig claim.
The problem with your posts yesterDay is that there’s hardly anything there. You posted a lot but didn’t try at all to have any impact on the game.
No rhand, im not particularly interested in discussing the awkward ass week me and kj had.
Think his play here and in token was more similar to eachother than to any recent town games, but basically not even i am a good enough wolf to apply what i knew from an ongoing game here without sacrificing some game integrity, and i think i handled it as well as I could have.
This is not a reason to scumread me. Im sure there's plenty find them
Here’s one: that last sentence. That’s typical for your open wolf game.
@Rhand: I actually asked about this D1, I think? Were did the idea that they could be w/w come from? Did KJ move away from null at one point to you and how did that end up happening? what indication did you have that they were aligned, even?
This has been discussed before. I was looking at what alignment KJ / Zio could have if tom was mafia in that post.
KJ was always null for me. I hadn't seen his scum game for ages and had no idea what he would be capable of. I decided to go with the lynch because I need to be on the lynch wagon and tom made a very pure post that made me trust him and hence his read.
I regret that now, but what’s done is done.
Flarg didn't claim in our chat, but we spent a lot of time comparing suspicions, and Grape came out on top, followed by GJ and ZDS.
So yeh, it does seem like he was using our chat to narrow down his target.
Hm. @Rhand and @Vaimes, important:
How do you describe the progression of Grape being read as the scummiest by all 3 of you?
Did Flarg come out already scumreading him and then you all consolidated on that read? Did he have a Town/Null read on him at the start and over the course of the Night changed his mind and agreed that he was scummy?
Go back to the cell chat and read it carefully before answering please - both of you.
Flarg posted his POE: Grape / YWF / GJ / Sloth / tuba / KCC / ZDS.
I told him I had town reads on YWF, Sloth and KCC and I posted my POE (Grape, tom, GJ, Zio, LW, tuba, ZDS, Vaimes).
We talked about some other stuff next and then talked about who we would focus on next Day. Flarg said he didn’t know who to look at. I tell him GJ / ZDS, he reacts that he thinks ZDS will be readable when he posts but GJ might be a good check. But that tubba and Grape would be good too.
I agree.
That’s when Vaimes joins the chat. He says he disagrees with tubba / sloth being in Flarg’s POE.
He has zionite / sloth / tubba as top town and maybe tom.
Vaimes wants to look at GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
We talked a bit longer about some specific reads, but this is the gist of the conversation.
So if you start from Flarg’s POE and substract who isn’t in mine / Vaimes’, then what you have left is Grape / GJ / ZDS.
Somewhere near the end of the conversation Flarg asked if there was a consensus on Grape, I guess that was his crumb.
@Rhand you said both your cellmates read Z as Town, was that the case from the start of Night?
Yes
Also, talk more about your KCC read and progression.
KCC is never a leader on the first Days of a bigger game as town. She is more in the background and becomes more frontline when she has things to look at.
I’ve had huge mindmelds with her this game. Our view on the gamestate is almost identical.
I’m convinced she’s town.
I know there's talk of Flarg being a SK, and that kinda makes me significantly less interested in the original case ZDS wrote up.
It's uh, pretty thorough though. Don't really see scum going from zero to a hundred like that, especially when ZDS wasn't ~significantly on anyone's radar.
No interest in lunching Sloth, tom, Zionite, Jack. Last and Rhand too but not as strong. I'm liking ZDS now that he's up and running, which I'll be honeset, I didn't expect to like him.
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake
E. FlargBlarg
Somehow this ended up being a PoE of one person from each cell, neat. I kinda wanna take Tubba off the list but I want to keep the ABCDE lineup.
Your POE in our cell chat was GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
What made tubba go from your top town reads to your POE?
I guess if I wanted to keep someone from cell C, it could be Last. I think I have an easier time reading him than Tubba, but I also have never seen Tubba’s scum play.
The problem with your posts yesterDay is that there’s hardly anything there. You posted a lot but didn’t try at all to have any impact on the game.
I kicked and screamed to basically get any other person than Zionite lynched. That's blatantly untrue.
You also point out that KCC has rough starts day 1. You have played enough with me to know the same is true for me. Why am I not getting that same benefit of the doubt if you truly believe that I had little/no impact?
The problem with your posts yesterDay is that there’s hardly anything there. You posted a lot but didn’t try at all to have any impact on the game.
I kicked and screamed to basically get any other person than Zionite lynched. That's blatantly untrue.
I just reread your Day 1 and this is not true at all. You didn't towncase Zionite, you didn't try to convince people to lynch KJ or anyone else.
All you did was sheep tom, push KCC a bit and answer questions.
You also point out that KCC has rough starts day 1. You have played enough with me to know the same is true for me. Why am I not getting that same benefit of the doubt if you truly believe that I had little/no impact?
Because you're a whole different type of lacking impact.
KCC is just on the sidelines.
You are very present, giving reads etc, but not actively trying to get anyone to follow you on them.
I just reread your Day 1 and this is not true at all. You didn't towncase Zionite, you didn't try to convince people to lynch KJ or anyone else.
All you did was sheep tom, push KCC a bit and answer questions.
So in this order:
1) You ignored my back and forth with Tubba
2) You ignored my counterpoint to SLoth on Zionite
3) You ignored my reading of Vaimes
4) You ignored the fact that I was answering questions because I was point at other peoples reads, posting my own reads?
5) I started digging at KCC towards the end of day 1, but went with KJ because I was completely ok sheeping tom who I thought would have a better read, and then followed that up today with pressure and enough to get other people to join.
Just to be clear, I don't post PBPAs too often, and haven't for several games. I'll reread ISOs, post my analysis, but I hardly wall posts. The length of this post and a few to tom are has long as I get. The analysis is absolutely there, and whether you to choose to listen to it or ignore it.
Hah. Ter gives me free tax advise. /throws my W2 at her face
I might tackle this post more when I have time/computer. For the love of god, please start using quotes, if clicking on the links was annoying in a laptop, it is a ******* NIGHTMARE on mobile
Biggest takeaway here is that I want to see your Vaimes case.
About the arguments with Tom: What I'm saying is that if his intention for arguing with Tom about meta arguments was to play it safe, then it super did not work, even back in D1; like I mentioned tongue-in-cheek, you're not the first one to look at him as possible scum.
939 was the post you described as "completely passive" and was in response to Z's wall. Except now you're saying it's a "perfectly fine post" and one of "the few times he attacks Zionite" so you just contradicted yourself, so what up?Not a good reason to townread Tom, fyi.Actually, you can take Vaimes off from that list, in light of Flarg's claim: Before this point, I was pretty certain that Vaimes was the vig.
I still have a townlean on him, just based on tone and content, but obviously nowhere near as strong.
/high fives!
I need you to slow your roll here. Everyone else's already yelled at you over this and you replied stating you dont actually want to do this, but whoever said you're doing a witch trial from Monty Python, they're totes right.
ftr, Im not totally against this - assuming they can even self-target (probably not) it'd be a good way to settle flarg if he's still alive D5-D6, but not freaking D2. I think you need to watch yourself for conf!bias.
Why does an SK hit Grape, Dork?
Did we not have a talk on D1, where it was stated that Shadow would not introduce a bastard element like this on us without letting us know?
Am I just not understanding what bastard/sk/multiball means? Is SK a real possibility???
Bye again.
I misread one of your kcc reads which you answered strangely and I mistook (you said she was closer to the center of the KJ flip), and your wolf read on me is pretty clear. Do me a favor, and don't play coy when you are being purposefully indirect.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I wouldnt expect one here per se, but it shouldnt be a surprise to anyone.
Flarg can pretty easily be SK, townvig, or scumvig
FTR
I say this with at this point no idea which
zion/YWFMLF/zds
rhand/GJ/last/flarg/vaimes
Kcc
Wouldnt want people to have to read full sentences to know my reads
but like the PoE for me, feels more like
Vaimes/Rhand/Flarg//KCC
give or take Zion, and GJ
Im probably wrong somewhere given I am bound to never be fully correct
I am happy to put him as town lean because I dont think a wolf does what he does
but thats pretty much for now, and probably doesnt stick unless he starts being explicitly townie
It's not "(or sk potentially)", it's "HE'S THE SK". You haven't been paying attention to latest developments.
I'm such a good neutral hunter that one of my other scumreads (Vaimes) is partially based on (now completely moot) scumbuddy interactions with the SK. That makes sense. Sarcasm aside, that "gotcha" is just pure laziness.
Look, I am not going to complain that I found the SK while looking for scum and I'm not going to let him live long either, even if lynching mafia toDay would technically be better.
@Slothful: Serial Killers are extremely common here (at least they were back in my days) and not at all considered bastard. Unannounced multiball (ie literally several scumteams) and cults are.
I was going to yell at you for asking the vig to counterclaim (instead of silently sniping Flarge) or for suggesting we wait until Day 5~6 to "settle flarg if he's still alive [by then]" (when we could be in a kingmaker scenario at this point where the town cannot win anymore), but if you are acting under the assumption SKs are a rarity then that explains a lot.
Re Sloth's #1705
You asked questions about my reads and my case on Flarge, how would you tell whether I've been sincere or bull*****ting all along if I answered with Flarge's claim in mind? I'm trying to make it easy to analyse me and hard to misconstrue or misinterpret my original intent, how would doing what you say not result in the exact opposite?
Again, if I completely misunderstood you please tell me and explain yourself.
Vaimes case: I plan to start working on it this afternoon (2pm here) since there's a lull, I may or may not post it toDay (it will depend on how strong I think it is).
On 939: Yeah I did contradict myself. I didn't remember mentioning it in the case because I have such good memory and because I didn't refer to it by its post number. Go me, that's how you write a case well (not really).
Anyway, now that I know to click on "completely passive" and I've read 939 for the Nth time, I must say I completely agree with everything I've said about this post, contradiction included. On its own it's fine, and one of the few instances where Flarge attacked Zionite, and it's also an incredibly passive post in which the focus is far more on defending himself than on leading the wagon he was supposedly leading.
This is a post that reads differently depending on if you look at the big picture or if you analyse it individually, and I stand by both my stances on it.
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There hasn't been any motion for a while.
@People NOT voting KCC: Why?
@People NOT voting me: Why?
@People NOT voting Flarge: Why?
@Vaimes &@Whispy: Aren't you lonely? Do you plan to do anything about it?
@Flarge & @Sloth: Why aren't you voting at all? Please vote. (This also goes for @Tubba, but at least Tubba isn't active.)
I'm not going to vote myself. Also, I had a good early impression on Rhand from the effort he put into dismantling (parts of) my case, but his arguments have been getting weaker and now it looks like he's throwing anything he can to see if something sticks. KCC has promised more but disappeared.
Enlighten me, because all I see is a vig claim and a one death night.
I would strongly, strongly suggest not poking the bear. Here was the post that caused my confusion:
My misreading of it is my problem. But my left to right read was that you were saying those three were more likely town than wolves, as I read your town > wolf read as = more likely town over scum. Considering it was right next to this post:
Where it looks like you want me Zion, and the three you want to flip being Flarg, Rhand, and Vaimes, I don't think it is super unreasonable for me to think you had a KCC mid/lean town read.
That was my thought process, and that's why with that assumption, when you went from voting me, to voting with me, I raised an eyebrow. Considering every other list you posted was color coded and up to down, it threw me off.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Johnny, why aren't you paying attention?
I am. Sloth would have made sense as a mafia nk. Do you disagree?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I assume ill have wifi at night though so its possible no one will notice
@Johnny: I do agree, and you are confusing me.
Hold on, I ISO'd you to re-check your stance on Flarg and there's a post of you I missed (pot, kettle, yadda yadda) thanks to the awful preview function.
Re balancing: Fine.
Re Flarg's claim: You are right that he didn't have to claim as SK or wolf, but he also didn't have to claim as town, not with the low amount of pressure on him.
Also, according to himself he claimed because he was losing motivation, which could very well mean nothing at all but if it does mean something, then I'd wager it's easier to lose motivation in this context as third party than as any other alignment: there was very little actual pressure on him, mostly just one guy barking into the wind, but several players were looking in his direction and he had few defenders.
Re lack of second kill: I'm still confused. Flarg claimed the kill on Grape and Sloth claimed an attempt was made to kill him. That's two kills accounted for. What's the problem? Are you assuming there should have been three kills (mafia+vig+sk) and if so why?
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Vaimes should be back soon-ish so...
Vaimes, tell me how you feel about things when you're back into caring mode.
(The joke is I'm not sure he has a caring mode)
It's uh, pretty thorough though. Don't really see scum going from zero to a hundred like that, especially when ZDS wasn't ~significantly on anyone's radar.
No interest in lunching Sloth, tom, Zionite, Jack. Last and Rhand too but not as strong. I'm liking ZDS now that he's up and running, which I'll be honeset, I didn't expect to like him.
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
C. Tubba Fett
D. KittyCupCake
E. FlargBlarg
Somehow this ended up being a PoE of one person from each cell, neat. I kinda wanna take Tubba off the list but I want to keep the ABCDE lineup.
This has been a Week.
I'll think about it.
I don't think you actually care about solving me. I've really never been that hard to read. You'd think after you made a point of slotting me with KJ in your headspace that you'd take an extra hard look at me, but it seems like you'd rather "meh Vaimes is bad" at me from a distance.
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No one's gonna break up my multiposts, are they. I might just pick this up later, I don't feel like formatting a huge post.
I'm gonna waffle on her for a few more phases, or until one of us dies. Whichever comes first.
And with that, I'm just gonna go to bed and hope I don't wake up with an infraction, whee.
Cause I'm voting KCC
Cause I'm voting KCC.
It was solving, and it didn't involve Rhand. Rhand also did nothing for moving the spotlight out which made me hate it even more.
Hard to solve you when you run off for a week. And while your right that I haven't been laser focused on you, lot of people to deal with. Don't worry your pretty little head.
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StaffKittyCupCake (3): Gentleman Johnny, YWFMLF, Tomsloger
ZeDorkSlipeur (2): Rhand, KittyCupCake
FlargBlarg (2): Jackrito, ZeDorkSlipeur
Gentleman Johnny (1): Vaimes
Rhand (1): Lastwhisper
Not Voting (4): FlargBlarg, Tubba Fett, Zionite, Slothful
Seeming replacement for KCC
Zionite is V/LA until 3/10
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is March 14th at 2000 MST.
What could go wrong we didnt already lynch a town roleblocker or anything
Agreed with that.
**** replacements
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well that’s unfortunate.
Yes I know. But Flarg’s carefree posts in cell chat + his claim now are enough for me. I don’t think he’s mafia and if he’s SK he’ll have to kill in the POE anyways after his vig claim.
The problem with your posts yesterDay is that there’s hardly anything there. You posted a lot but didn’t try at all to have any impact on the game.
Here’s one: that last sentence. That’s typical for your open wolf game.
This has been discussed before. I was looking at what alignment KJ / Zio could have if tom was mafia in that post.
KJ was always null for me. I hadn't seen his scum game for ages and had no idea what he would be capable of. I decided to go with the lynch because I need to be on the lynch wagon and tom made a very pure post that made me trust him and hence his read.
I regret that now, but what’s done is done.
Flarg posted his POE: Grape / YWF / GJ / Sloth / tuba / KCC / ZDS.
I told him I had town reads on YWF, Sloth and KCC and I posted my POE (Grape, tom, GJ, Zio, LW, tuba, ZDS, Vaimes).
We talked about some other stuff next and then talked about who we would focus on next Day. Flarg said he didn’t know who to look at. I tell him GJ / ZDS, he reacts that he thinks ZDS will be readable when he posts but GJ might be a good check. But that tubba and Grape would be good too.
I agree.
That’s when Vaimes joins the chat. He says he disagrees with tubba / sloth being in Flarg’s POE.
He has zionite / sloth / tubba as top town and maybe tom.
Vaimes wants to look at GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
We talked a bit longer about some specific reads, but this is the gist of the conversation.
So if you start from Flarg’s POE and substract who isn’t in mine / Vaimes’, then what you have left is Grape / GJ / ZDS.
Somewhere near the end of the conversation Flarg asked if there was a consensus on Grape, I guess that was his crumb.
Yes
KCC is never a leader on the first Days of a bigger game as town. She is more in the background and becomes more frontline when she has things to look at.
I’ve had huge mindmelds with her this game. Our view on the gamestate is almost identical.
I’m convinced she’s town.
Your POE in our cell chat was GJ / Grape / KCC / ZDS / YWF, maybe Flarg.
What made tubba go from your top town reads to your POE?
I kicked and screamed to basically get any other person than Zionite lynched. That's blatantly untrue.
You also point out that KCC has rough starts day 1. You have played enough with me to know the same is true for me. Why am I not getting that same benefit of the doubt if you truly believe that I had little/no impact?
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StaffI just reread your Day 1 and this is not true at all. You didn't towncase Zionite, you didn't try to convince people to lynch KJ or anyone else.
All you did was sheep tom, push KCC a bit and answer questions.
Because you're a whole different type of lacking impact.
KCC is just on the sidelines.
You are very present, giving reads etc, but not actively trying to get anyone to follow you on them.
So in this order:
1) You ignored my back and forth with Tubba
2) You ignored my counterpoint to SLoth on Zionite
3) You ignored my reading of Vaimes
4) You ignored the fact that I was answering questions because I was point at other peoples reads, posting my own reads?
5) I started digging at KCC towards the end of day 1, but went with KJ because I was completely ok sheeping tom who I thought would have a better read, and then followed that up today with pressure and enough to get other people to join.
Just to be clear, I don't post PBPAs too often, and haven't for several games. I'll reread ISOs, post my analysis, but I hardly wall posts. The length of this post and a few to tom are has long as I get. The analysis is absolutely there, and whether you to choose to listen to it or ignore it.
The GJ way path to no lynching: