Ok I have issues with this you claim part of your reason for voting me is because you town read Grape and KCC, explain to me how and why last time you talked about Grape it sounded like you scumread him more then anything. Also KCC RVS me and not done enough to be anything but null so I find this stance hard to believe and just sounds like a excuse.
On me hedgeing why would I not at that point in the game I don't have god knowledge on people's side so lack confidence in my reads since people can just be bad town or have a weird play style. My way is to slowly evaluate a person over time and weigh negs to pos. Expecting me to have conviction on people in my first post is a bit extreme as well. On why I'm not voting you not really sure, but considering it everyone knows my view so no need to vote really.
Also I'm not only concerned with those voting me, but since I know my role it makes sense to me that those pushing me could be scum so not a bad place to start, I have gave thoughts on others as well so this is false that I only focus on those voting me.
On lack of conviction yes it looks bad I know that and why I'm used to defending myself, my issue is more that your every action lacks conviction rather then just reads on people, the back down on Wisp and other things just feels like trying to do enough. Rather then wanting to catch scum. Also I'm a hypocrite
This post is a town post.
I was going to make a short note about how this wagon should not be and how I'm not willing to lynch Jack (at least not this phase) but now I see that Grape and Zi are the only ones in it.
On that note, @grape not trying to put words in your mouth, but were your townreads voting him really the driving force beyond your vote? Am I remembering that right?
Jack's entry post is okay - Grape, explain your vote?
And that's it!
Really? Nothing about that seemed similar to Zion’s talk for the sake of talking but take not positions post to you?
Not really.
Jack was following vague threads on various players that eventually, naturally, cohesively form a solid thought.
Zi was saying things that are ultimately hollow, now and in the future. Note the past tense in light of what he’s doing now, but that appears to be responsive to pressure rather than out of a true desire to solve the game and even then what he’s saying is not really solid.
@all: If no one’s verbalized the difference between the two yet, there, I’ve done it for you.
My votes is where its meant to currently be. I haven't decided so it's in my pocket.
What's your take on Jack's weird "I don't know why you don't want to lynch two inactive players but my first "good lynch" is based on info gathering due to a player's activity?"
interesting
I read it as "excitedly premature" and that feels towny to me
Your homework is to underline the sentence that conveys any sort of excitement.
its not about a sentence using "excited" diction. Its about an approach.
In that post rhand quoted hes talking about tells that likely arent real during RVS stage. He basically listened to me about backing off last but expressed he didnt have anything else to do.
That is someone <excited> for this game to get going so he can solve it. As rhand said it does feel like a rusty player. Which i also just... know to be true.
But based on "rusty" it feels like hes tilting at windmills to get loose, not like hes "just doing stuff to shake off the rust"
Which is a subtle difference but i think im into it
This still hilds. Zion isnt making empty posts because hes scum that doesnt know what to do.
Scum that dont abandon the things they have come up with that easily.
Hes still directionless town here. Which fits my meta knowledge of zion anyway he needs footholds (flips, strong townreads, etc)
Yes it will be more indicative/harder for him to fake when he has those footholds. Maybe ill change my mind then.
This still hilds. Zion isnt making empty posts because hes scum that doesnt know what to do. Scum that dont abandon the things they have come up with that easily.
You say in one breath this is just him being rusty and say scum don't abandon things easily. He's being pressured for a bad post...a rusty scum 100% WOULD let things go...part being rusty is making mistakes so you can't really shrug it off as just rusty because a good scum player doesn't do this.
Not a huge fan of tom this so far. Mostly his comments on grape/Zionite don't feel super solvey.
grape is fair, ive done nothing to determine his alignment in thread or, really, in my head.
But im gonna call hard bull***** on me not solving zion here
Your bull***** call is accurate. I don't know why I even mentioned that. The grape post was :
i dont have any idea what grapes talking about to be honest, but i think it only matters that grape himself said it for these purposes
I just say that as being hedgey. I don't know why I posted me having an issue with your interaction and Zios. Maybe I am mixing that up with my issues with Tubba. My bad.
Apathy = doesn't really care. Defensiveness by its definition implies care. Zio doesn't really seem worried about his wagon. I didn't really get defensiveness from his post on his posts vs jacks.
Interesting, I saw a lot of pretending not to care.
Not dismissing your thought, but curious where the divide is. Do you have a lot of experience with Zi?
You're the one with more experience playing Mafia, with me or otherwise. I know how I think I play but my naturally biased opinion doesn't really hold the same weight as asking someone who's played with me and had to read my before. Reading me in RL is not the same as in a game.
Apathy = doesn't really care. Defensiveness by its definition implies care. Zio doesn't really seem worried about his wagon. I didn't really get defensiveness from his post on his posts vs jacks.
Interesting, I saw a lot of pretending not to care.
Not dismissing your thought, but curious where the divide is. Do you have a lot of experience with Zi?
Years ago. Long before most of you have been on this site. I couldn't even tell you the name of the games. Basic(s), Hecatea*? Few others.
My votes is where its meant to currently be. I haven't decided so it's in my pocket.
What's your take on Jack's weird "I don't know why you don't want to lynch two inactive players but my first "good lynch" is based on info gathering due to a player's activity?"
Point me to the post in question 'cause not sure what you mean.
interesting
I read it as "excitedly premature" and that feels towny to me
Your homework is to underline the sentence that conveys any sort of excitement.
its not about a sentence using "excited" diction. Its about an approach.
In that post rhand quoted hes talking about tells that likely arent real during RVS stage. He basically listened to me about backing off last but expressed he didnt have anything else to do.
That is someone <excited> for this game to get going so he can solve it. As rhand said it does feel like a rusty player. Which i also just... know to be true.
But based on "rusty" it feels like hes tilting at windmills to get loose, not like hes "just doing stuff to shake off the rust"
Which is a subtle difference but i think im into it
@KJ: Your immediate reaction to this post drew my attention.
Given that it keeps coming up, can you elaborate?
Not used to being in the ppotential lynch pool on day one, I'm fine with it tbh. Not really sure what KCC and Tubba did to not be in it though,i assume that this is because of meta knowledge or some nonsense since both have being underwhelming to the extreme.
On the other two I really don't rememeber anything YWFM has done this game so guess I should look at them, Flarg is a good lynch for info gathering since they have being the centre of attention so far, like I said eariler I see them as a slight town read but that has fell a bit recently. I want to relook at them as a whole to be sure.
Zion is someone I still have issues with also
I find it weird and flaily to say that Jack doesn't understand why two inactive players with little to no posting aren't being considered for L1 and in the same post that his "good lynch" pick is Flarg cause of his activity and the info gathering it brings.
THIS seems panicky...in one breath you don't understand not lynching players that would give no info due to inactivity but in the next you want to lynch for info based on activity.
You're the one with more experience playing Mafia, with me or otherwise. I know how I think I play but my naturally biased opinion doesn't really hold the same weight as asking someone who's played with me and had to read my before. Reading me in RL is not the same as in a game.
@Last
That's about it. I'm fairly confident in my ability to eventually read her as scum. If I don't think she is by D3, then she definitely isn't (until she is and won't that be embarrassing for me?)
Anyway, no Scum!Ter so far.
Apathy = doesn't really care. Defensiveness by its definition implies care. Zio doesn't really seem worried about his wagon. I didn't really get defensiveness from his post on his posts vs jacks.
Interesting, I saw a lot of pretending not to care.
Not dismissing your thought, but curious where the divide is. Do you have a lot of experience with Zi?
Years ago. Long before most of you have been on this site. I couldn't even tell you the name of the games. Basic(s), Hecatea*? Few others.
I find it weird and flaily to say that Jack doesn't understand why two inactive players with little to no posting aren't being considered for L1 and in the same post that his "good lynch" pick is Flarg cause of his activity and the info gathering it brings.
THIS seems panicky...in one breath you don't understand not lynching players that would give no info due to inactivity but in the next you want to lynch for info based on activity.
Ah, that one.
There was no actual heat on him: KCC had voted as a clear RVS on her very first post (and later admitted it meant nothing to no one's surprise).
Grape voted him for reasoning that I feel half of us have labeled strange. (Oddly Grape didn't play it off as also a joke, hm.)
The two others that were possibly discussing him were also saying that it wouldn't be him (Last and Vaimes (HAH, I did it!)) and in fact were voting you at the time.
Based on this and his reactions and statements before or after, I don't see any flailing and panicking, just casual remarks while working things out.
At the time of this post, there was also a "heavy" (by this game's standards) discussion between last, flarg and me - so given the gamestate clarity on Flarg would have been good. Not that this is necessarily a town or scum move.
Not used to being in the ppotential lynch pool on day one, I'm fine with it tbh. Not really sure what KCC and Tubba did to not be in it though,i assume that this is because of meta knowledge or some nonsense since both have being underwhelming to the extreme.
On the other two I really don't rememeber anything YWFM has done this game so guess I should look at them, Flarg is a good lynch for info gathering since they have being the centre of attention so far, like I said eariler I see them as a slight town read but that has fell a bit recently. I want to relook at them as a whole to be sure.
Zion is someone I still have issues with also
I mean, it's not a done deal. I kinda threw it together on the fly to get some discussion going.
It is meta-related, yes.
Do you find that center-of-attention slots flip scum or town more often?
I find it varies from person to person Wisp for example will be center of attention no matter what side he is. Normally in my exp scum will try to be passive and do just enough to not be suspected, but not enough to be questioned why still alive. Certain people can powerwolf though where you need to be the driving force. It all comes down to confidence and belief though.
Lol Rhand. What do you want me to do? I think we're getting to a substantive spot. Admittedly nothing to go after right now, give it time. I only ask you let me do my thing when the thread gets juicy, and evaluate me based on that.
Btw, when do you qualify the thread as being "juicy"?
On that note, @grape not trying to put words in your mouth, but were your townreads voting him really the driving force beyond your vote? Am I remembering that right?
Zionite was the one voting Jack in part because they liked the wagon.
I'm voting Jack for reasons. Just reasons that are apparently incomprehensible to everyone but me.
@Slothful my kindred spirit or scum read on Jack definitely wasn't a joke for what it's worth.
Interesting. Talk to me about this more read.
I see it’s gaining some steam, but my only experience with Grape is a game in MU where I picked up oddities somewhat similar to those you’re bringing up, and wasted a lot of time chasing him on it, only for him to be town.
What would town!Grape have done differently?
I think he either expresses the spoilered part as his main read, or doesn't include that part at all and just makes the push, depending on his read and what he wanted, probably more likely the former.
Doing both is pointless and overly self-conscious. It's not like the spoilered section his some secret jack can't open
I'm voting Jack for reasons. Just reasons that are apparently incomprehensible to everyone but me.
Because his posting style is somewhat similar to yours (which it obviously is) and he was making an effort to get the game moving? Or am I missing something?
Because his posting style is somewhat similar to yours (which it obviously is) and he was making an effort to get the game moving? Or am I missing something?
I guess I should try to articulate my Jack thoughts.
Jack's opening post was stuffed with hedges but making reads. This is something I do often and draw scum reads for. I'll walk through a read stating why I think it then throw the reasons why it might be wrong at the end of my take. Jack basically did a similar thing in their first post.
Why I'm scum reading it him though is because
A: the type of person who types through their thoughts that way is uncommon in general
B: if they aren't that type of person they are scum (this feels relatively unlikely now)
C: the embrace of Vaimes first PoE is out of whack with a player prone to hedging (I would have expected equivocations on who was in and out of the PoE)
D: the OMGUS dive into me and Zionite also lacks the sort of hedging and self doubt seen earlier
C: the embrace of Vaimes first PoE is out of whack with a player prone to hedging (I would have expected equivocations on who was in and out of the PoE)
I read it like a hypothetical exercise: let's take this premise and see what shakes out. Not like he was locking into that read list, especially considering it wasn't even his own read list he was working with
@KCC Even in a hypothetical exercise it seems odd that he just embraced that PoE given the way he refused to commit to reads elsewhere. I would strongly expect there to be more equivocation about the list. Embracing the exercise that way just feels out of place to the rest of his character. As for the line about leaving them alive that was entirely a joke at wisp's expense. He'd said something about Jackrito becoming clearer as more time passes which is true for everyone and not a particular useful approach when he's the only person in the game familiar with Jack.
I'm beginning to think that I should stop forming my entire read off personality trait projections though.
Not used to being in the ppotential lynch pool on day one, I'm fine with it tbh. Not really sure what KCC and Tubba did to not be in it though,i assume that this is because of meta knowledge or some nonsense since both have being underwhelming to the extreme.
On the other two I really don't rememeber anything YWFM has done this game so guess I should look at them, Flarg is a good lynch for info gathering since they have being the centre of attention so far, like I said eariler I see them as a slight town read but that has fell a bit recently. I want to relook at them as a whole to be sure.
Zion is someone I still have issues with also
I find it weird and flaily to say that Jack doesn't understand why two inactive players with little to no posting aren't being considered for L1 and in the same post that his "good lynch" pick is Flarg cause of his activity and the info gathering it brings.
THIS seems panicky...in one breath you don't understand not lynching players that would give no info due to inactivity but in the next you want to lynch for info based on activity.
Just wanted to point out me saying why they are not in the POE does not mean I want them lynched. More wanting to know why others do not. If you don't pressure low posters they have no reason to step it up.
Also on the other part they is too much focus on my Flarge view espically since it lasted about 20 mins and I changed to a town read after reading them over. .
In regards to it though I don't think doing a lynch for info and interactions off them is bad day one
Also since this has came up a couple of times, why would I not embrace a POE created by someone else it is a good way to get discussion going and share views. Just because I hedge a lot does not mean I won't try to discuss reads and try to understand what mindset others are in.
KCC defense of me is throwing me the hell off since they are right in what they are saying, but not used to people seeing it espically so early.
It gives me slight pocket worries based off scum tmi but not really sure. I'm just glad they are posting though to a degree as well. Going to give it the benefit of a townread and me beinf paranoid for now though since much easier to attack me then defend if scum.
KCC defense of me is throwing me the hell off since they are right in what they are saying, but not used to people seeing it espically so early.
It gives me slight pocket worries based off scum tmi but not really sure. I'm just glad they are posting though to a degree as well. Going to give it the benefit of a townread and me beinf paranoid for now though since much easier to attack me then defend if scum.
You are not the only one tbf, her read of me, makes me turn my head a little
Also since this has came up a couple of times, why would I not embrace a POE created by someone else it is a good way to get discussion going and share views. Just because I hedge a lot does not mean I won't try to discuss reads and try to understand what mindset others are in.
I get that, I'd just have expected you to throw in some comments about why the PoE isn't ironclad.
Also since this has came up a couple of times, why would I not embrace a POE created by someone else it is a good way to get discussion going and share views. Just because I hedge a lot does not mean I won't try to discuss reads and try to understand what mindset others are in.
I get that, I'd just have expected you to throw in some comments about why the PoE isn't ironclad.
This is going nowhere.
Unvote
Going to try and reread.
I mean that was a given so no need to say. I mainly wanted to get out of RVS so went with it
I'm kind of amused that people are now making noise about the PoE that I more or less made up and have no intention of seriously pursuing. Even though that was the whole point.
idk I guess I feel proud that I planted a seed and it grew instead of shriveling.
I need to widen my scope tomorrow since I have time. Too many people at the moment I'm reading posts of but have no real stance on them they just exist. That is more on me then them though
Think my active towncore is KJ/Jack/Sloth/Flarg. Maybe Last.
same, I am fine with that PoE
@jackrito
I mean I could probably be townier if I wanted to, but I again I also don't want to blow up this game. Just don't worry about me, because there is very little world's where I get touched today anyways. Lastly I choose to play differently here because of the longer day phases, and for my sanity
I was going to make a short note about how this wagon should not be and how I'm not willing to lynch Jack (at least not this phase) but now I see that Grape and Zi are the only ones in it.
On that note, @grape not trying to put words in your mouth, but were your townreads voting him really the driving force beyond your vote? Am I remembering that right?
That’s what she said!!!!!
Better question would be "how many of the reasons are really stupid?"
i AM TALKING MYSELF INTO IT.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also, where’s your vote?
A thousand pardons, your grace. It is I who is at fault for revealing what you didn’t think to tell me was a secret
Not really.
Jack was following vague threads on various players that eventually, naturally, cohesively form a solid thought.
Zi was saying things that are ultimately hollow, now and in the future. Note the past tense in light of what he’s doing now, but that appears to be responsive to pressure rather than out of a true desire to solve the game and even then what he’s saying is not really solid.
@all: If no one’s verbalized the difference between the two yet, there, I’ve done it for you.
Nope.
Yep.
Join me on Zi!
Last post felt super weird, but kind of like his question towards Jack.
Muhhhhhhhh
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What's your take on Jack's weird "I don't know why you don't want to lynch two inactive players but my first "good lynch" is based on info gathering due to a player's activity?"
This still hilds. Zion isnt making empty posts because hes scum that doesnt know what to do.
Scum that dont abandon the things they have come up with that easily.
Hes still directionless town here. Which fits my meta knowledge of zion anyway he needs footholds (flips, strong townreads, etc)
Yes it will be more indicative/harder for him to fake when he has those footholds. Maybe ill change my mind then.
But for now, hes town.
But im gonna call hard bull***** on me not solving zion here
You say in one breath this is just him being rusty and say scum don't abandon things easily. He's being pressured for a bad post...a rusty scum 100% WOULD let things go...part being rusty is making mistakes so you can't really shrug it off as just rusty because a good scum player doesn't do this.
Your bull***** call is accurate. I don't know why I even mentioned that. The grape post was :
I just say that as being hedgey. I don't know why I posted me having an issue with your interaction and Zios. Maybe I am mixing that up with my issues with Tubba. My bad.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Not dismissing your thought, but curious where the divide is. Do you have a lot of experience with Zi?
You're the one with more experience playing Mafia, with me or otherwise. I know how I think I play but my naturally biased opinion doesn't really hold the same weight as asking someone who's played with me and had to read my before. Reading me in RL is not the same as in a game.
Years ago. Long before most of you have been on this site. I couldn't even tell you the name of the games. Basic(s), Hecatea*? Few others.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Given that it keeps coming up, can you elaborate?
I find it weird and flaily to say that Jack doesn't understand why two inactive players with little to no posting aren't being considered for L1 and in the same post that his "good lynch" pick is Flarg cause of his activity and the info gathering it brings.
THIS seems panicky...in one breath you don't understand not lynching players that would give no info due to inactivity but in the next you want to lynch for info based on activity.
That's about it. I'm fairly confident in my ability to eventually read her as scum. If I don't think she is by D3, then she definitely isn't (until she is and won't that be embarrassing for me?)
Anyway, no Scum!Ter so far.
Noted. Ultimately doesn't sway me as a result.
There was no actual heat on him: KCC had voted as a clear RVS on her very first post (and later admitted it meant nothing to no one's surprise).
Grape voted him for reasoning that I feel half of us have labeled strange. (Oddly Grape didn't play it off as also a joke, hm.)
The two others that were possibly discussing him were also saying that it wouldn't be him (Last and Vaimes (HAH, I did it!)) and in fact were voting you at the time.
Based on this and his reactions and statements before or after, I don't see any flailing and panicking, just casual remarks while working things out.
At the time of this post, there was also a "heavy" (by this game's standards) discussion between last, flarg and me - so given the gamestate clarity on Flarg would have been good. Not that this is necessarily a town or scum move.
Still, why not:
Jack, how do you reconcile the bolded?
Gonna sit here and see what happens.
Zionite was the one voting Jack in part because they liked the wagon.
I'm voting Jack for reasons. Just reasons that are apparently incomprehensible to everyone but me.
@Slothful my kindred spirit or scum read on Jack definitely wasn't a joke for what it's worth.
I think he either expresses the spoilered part as his main read, or doesn't include that part at all and just makes the push, depending on his read and what he wanted, probably more likely the former.
Doing both is pointless and overly self-conscious. It's not like the spoilered section his some secret jack can't open
I liked Rhands points as well
We used to
I remember that being a part of Zion's scumplay, though my meta on him is ancient too
Because his posting style is somewhat similar to yours (which it obviously is) and he was making an effort to get the game moving? Or am I missing something?
I guess I should try to articulate my Jack thoughts.
Jack's opening post was stuffed with hedges but making reads. This is something I do often and draw scum reads for. I'll walk through a read stating why I think it then throw the reasons why it might be wrong at the end of my take. Jack basically did a similar thing in their first post.
Why I'm scum reading it him though is because
A: the type of person who types through their thoughts that way is uncommon in general
B: if they aren't that type of person they are scum (this feels relatively unlikely now)
C: the embrace of Vaimes first PoE is out of whack with a player prone to hedging (I would have expected equivocations on who was in and out of the PoE)
D: the OMGUS dive into me and Zionite also lacks the sort of hedging and self doubt seen earlier
I remain uncertain if thats AI
This I understand from him completely, I get much clearer reads on people pressuring me too.
Also, I realized more what bothered me about your one post:
This feels dramatically out of character for you, even with after thoughts.
I'm beginning to think that I should stop forming my entire read off personality trait projections though.
Just wanted to point out me saying why they are not in the POE does not mean I want them lynched. More wanting to know why others do not. If you don't pressure low posters they have no reason to step it up.
Also on the other part they is too much focus on my Flarge view espically since it lasted about 20 mins and I changed to a town read after reading them over. .
In regards to it though I don't think doing a lynch for info and interactions off them is bad day one
It gives me slight pocket worries based off scum tmi but not really sure. I'm just glad they are posting though to a degree as well. Going to give it the benefit of a townread and me beinf paranoid for now though since much easier to attack me then defend if scum.
I get that, I'd just have expected you to throw in some comments about why the PoE isn't ironclad.
This is going nowhere.
Unvote
Going to try and reread.
I mean that was a given so no need to say. I mainly wanted to get out of RVS so went with it
idk I guess I feel proud that I planted a seed and it grew instead of shriveling.
Unvote, vote tom
You know what to do.
@jackrito
I mean I could probably be townier if I wanted to, but I again I also don't want to blow up this game. Just don't worry about me, because there is very little world's where I get touched today anyways. Lastly I choose to play differently here because of the longer day phases, and for my sanity