@Slothful
He re-evaluated when he didnt have to on Vaimes? which shows he isnt maliciously trying to push things?
His progression on me went from RVS, to I am ok with this again, I believe is due to my fluff question? which maybe he believes that makes me a wolf? its definitely a decent enough reason to vote someone at the time?
so he is still pretty null leaning towards lower end town?
I think him asking about my meta in regards to my emotions is a question either alignment would ask?
I see no reason to think that Flarg is faking any of his thoughts so far, and #59 was it, almost feels a little to reachy for a wolf to come up with, to justify voting someone
Ah. Damnit, sorry, misunderstood what the original posts and the 'Doop' thing meant earlier.
@Last: Doesn't really matter, I wanted the opinion of someone who's played with him. But I'm essentially asking if you find the thought progression believable and if anything jumps out.
@Flarg
Weeeell, many years ago, before the youths found Tik Tok and stream TV was more of a bonus than the replacement to cable, and homes had a landline to connect to the internet with, there was a young mafia lad named Snowvon. He's since changed to Vaimes...I'm just bad at remembering that.
The posts in question are #52 and #63.
I gotta admit, your claim confusion about "endgaming" in #61 is strange enough to me that I actually believe it (I honestly never had anyone use the term in any other way than Von did)
You've never seen "soandso was endgamed!" as a cause of death when Town loses? Or like, a player talk about not wanting to live for a long time just to get endgamed? Much be a regional dialect I guess (#utica).
I state it with some level of certainty because I've been playing mafia for a long time, and the things I said are true in a broad sense. I didn't think it was true of Vaimes specifically, but rather that it would be true of any player.
[quote from="Jackrito »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/816321-prison-block-mafia-ii-day-1-orange-dawn?comment=334"]@Slothful I just remember you talking about how you wanted to live past D1 in the DVC from the MCU Thing game. If you're actually cleared by a N0 check you're much less likely to survive.
I'm putting Flarg as tentatively Town.
He makes too much sense and voices thoughts I had but decided not to share just in case. If we're mind-melding and he's scum, then I'm truly cocking things up royally - so here's hoping I notice it eventually if so!
Ok, time to sleep. Wanna see more of Tubba, GJ, YWF and Rhand (hope you're feeling better!) tomorrow.
I think Dork hasn't posted at all?
Ok so I'm very tired rn, and can't really concentrate. I'm a bit behind, but I'll catch up either in the morning, or if I can't, after my short workday tomorrow.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Welp gotta vote against my buddy vote: Zion
I don't really think Zion is a wolf as of yet, and I'm still more inclined to believe him on his meta, but I don't really want to Lynch Jack today for doing Jack things?
Zion is more likely to flip wolf based on his posts then Jack is, I think? If we want to be statistical
Why would you vote for someone you don't think is scum?
I mean I could sit off train if you would like? but I'd rather be on a main train, since it feels like I am doing something?
and not a "wolf" read, doesn't make you a "town" read
The "feels like I am doing something" is what makes me not like it. You should want to actually do something. Also, how would you know I'm not just doing Zionite things? It's not consistent. Also, what's the deal with the statistical argument anyway?
While I may have backed off pressure, I haven't changed my mind on your possible alignment. Either you're scum hiding behind an aloof act or that's just how you play. I don't know yet. But nothing you've shown has given me town vibes.
@Flarg: What's the difference between my posts and Jackaritos?
Everything? For starters, they only really have one post (technically it's a double but it's really one post) in the area of the thread that I thought was scummy and it's a substantial post. He doesn't do any of what I called you out for in my post. Also, I think tonally he reads as Town.
I actually don't get the wagon on him at all tbh.
For me it started with the first post, but subsequent posts started cementing the read for me. I'll get to that and show why.
So I'm being accused of being opportunistic, not even sure at what point I was since not even voted yet since still working things out. But this post and vote is fine ok then, I would class this as opportunistic. It also lies within the area of self pres to a degree but too early for that I feel.
The point of being opportunistic is the core of my vote, and my town-read on Grape and KCC supporting your wagon. Your first post was #172, in this post you don't commit to anything at all. There's qualifiers on every read, even Flarg which seemed the strongest read for you. Let me just illustrate what I see:
OK finally got around to this game, and after reading everything I really don't have as much of a stance on people that I would like. The best I can offer is Killjoy for me is town for now their posts just come off as casual, but this is easy to fake for some people so not much of a town read.
Flarg can also be town for his approach early actually trying to get the game moving forward, and had some conviction, sadly as soon as pushed they backed down ,and went back to Wisp this worries me since it looked like panic so went to a safer vote, maybe just me being overly paranoid though so with that in mind my view may change but town for now.
Apart from that some slight town reads on others namely Vamies, Rhand but more just gut then anything of substance, I sadly have no real scum reads at this point but this is likely still RVS so not that shocking but annoying all the same. Zionite style is perhaps the most triggering to me as scum but not really sure what about it bothers me. KCC and Tubba also post but add nothing really but maybe i'm expecting too much this early though.
Only person I have real exp with is Wisp who is playing weird so not sure how to read it atm since he gave reasons which make sense so null on him for now.
Getting used to longer day phases is going to be weird since I like things done at a faster tempo, getting used to the different culture and peoples existing dyanmics with each other is going to be new as well.
Could you take any more actions to have less of a committed stance? That's what's 'triggering' for me. The opportunistic part is where you continue to do this 'hedging' in post after post, and I don't understand why you're not already voting me if you think I'm fake and scum.
@Flarg: What's the difference between my posts and Jackaritos?
So, now that it's been answered, what exactly prompted this question?
See above. I see this turfing of half-reads so that Jack can go with whatever vote is beneficial later down the road and it won't be weird because the read was half-right. It seems like Jack is keeping options open. The question was posed to see if Flarg thought this was a problem as well, which it doesn't seem to be the case.
Time to look at Zion and Grape since they are the main ones pushing me, so I want to look at if this is from a town mindset, or just a attempt to get a lynch through on just anyone.
I don't like that you're only concerned with the players voting you.
Ok after looking at Zion which I have being meaning to do anyway, since they have stood out to me most this game as being off. Like Fralge said they is a bit of a disconnect at times, if that is the right way to say it. They are attempts to do things like pushing Wisp and talking about the meta gaming early. All of it just feels weak and lacks commitment to a degree I guess.
First real post is 153 his stance on Wisp sounds good, but like I said just feels lacking and he let it go too easy. Also says they don't like Grape but follow them onto me later, intrested to see if this makes sense off his later posts. Last part holds the most intrest though since they claim to be the center of the attention because they love mafia, so why does everything feel half arsed. This triggers me because in a later post they say last game they played as scum they tried too hard and should of kept head down more. This would fit in with their approach so far more reserved.
Nothing said in rest of posts really stands out their view on Grape never really changed either apart from understanding mindset more then my own. Which is normal in mafia we all have our own styles. In my overall view they are doing just enough to be seen as town on surface level but on a deeper level everything looks a bit fake and going through motions of what a town should do.
Lacks commitment? So you'd agree with me that lacking commitment would look scummy, right? Just holding you to the same logic you're using for me.
No, it's definitely not the case. I don't think Jack's hedging a problem and I struggle to see a world where #172 is a Scum post. Hedging on major wagons, or on cases you're spearheading is scummy, sure... but Jack's not doing that.
What actually seems more likely to you:
Jack decided he wanted to keep his options open, but made a wall anyway, so he had to sprinkle in 9 hedges in order to keep flexible on all 14 other players, none of whom had major wagons.
Jack is Town and it's a stream-of-consciousness post so you're catching him reconsidering everything as he writes it.
There's a huge difference between posting stances that you walk back in the same post (Jack) vs posting, but not posting anything game impacting (you up until your vote on last page)
Ahhh I did miss this post. And that sort of energy is out of character for KJ regardless of alignment. I think it was over posting coming of a end game high from seasons.
I've decided that Jackrito is scum and that there is no reason to leave them alive for their alignment to become more clear. The sequence starting with 298 where they review Vaimes' forced PoE based on my forced town circle feels all sorts of opportunistic.
I realize they were just trying to get the game moving, I'm not actually convinced they are scum, but I want to believe it.
Here, I'll stop being lazy:
I don't think this is townGrape. The whole spoiler just completely undercuts any point to this post and feels needlessly defensive
And the kj bit. I'm not sure if that's light buddy defense or TMIing a town KJ, but either way, I don't understand the line of "KJ is acting weird" -> "let's ignore that" as being sincere
Attempts to game the setup with a cell block analysis seems suspicious to me, but with not much to go on I understand the sentiment. Just the idea of 'let's make this meta thing the topic' distracts from actual evaluation of posts and it's fluff. Within page one however it makes some sense. I would be much more suspicious if there was other evidence to go on.
But yeah, it's random per rules.
This post. It screams scum. He sees something to be suspicious of but understands it so it’s not suspicious but it would be if there were more posts.
It’s a bunch of awkward nothingness which is typical for early scum posts.
interesting
I read it as "excitedly premature" and that feels towny to me
I strongly disagree. Especially that sentence that he would be more suspicious if there was other evidence is just… not a real thought.
I get what you’re saying here, but it doesn’t explain my problem with the post:
interesting
I read it as "excitedly premature" and that feels towny to me
Your homework is to underline the sentence that conveys any sort of excitement.
its not about a sentence using "excited" diction. Its about an approach.
In that post rhand quoted hes talking about tells that likely arent real during RVS stage. He basically listened to me about backing off last but expressed he didnt have anything else to do.
That is someone <excited> for this game to get going so he can solve it. As rhand said it does feel like a rusty player. Which i also just... know to be true.
But based on "rusty" it feels like hes tilting at windmills to get loose, not like hes "just doing stuff to shake off the rust"
Which is a subtle difference but i think im into it
Also, tom, there was a question for you here that you didn’t answer:
If I want to be lazy and reckless I'm happy to lock in town reads on Wisp, Tom, Zionite, KJ, and Vaimes. What ever went wrong being overly trusting during RVS?
My real stance is I haven't seen much of anything I'm willing to call AI yet. A few town pings here and there but nothing that I really want to hone in on except Tom's zionite read which won't be useful to read tom from for about 3 days. I think I'm inclined to trust the read itself for now though.
at most one of those people has done anything towny
(Its not me)
It's definitely not you, but my new stance on you is to just write you off until proven otherwise despite that being the exact opposite of how DLP'ers handle you.
The non zionite reads are just on tone.
I have reads, my real stance is I don’t have reads, the reads (that I don’t have) are on tone.
Add to that his uncalled for use of percentages, and we’re probably looking at scum!Grape.
vote Grape
I like Slothful a lot for picking out the exact same posts as I did to react on.
LW feels different than his town!game. He’s more direct, concise and steering.
I don't think it's really any one person's fault that the gamestate is the way it is. Nothing latch-worthy has really happened, and I suck at being proactive.
Let's try something.
Grape's townreads were something like me/tom/Wisp/KJ/Zionite? I'll throw Grape in there too for fun. And Sloth, to make Last happy. Leaves:
YWFMLF
Gentleman Johnny
Tubba Fett
Jackrito
KittyCupCake
ZeDorkSlipeur
FlargBlarg
Rhand
[quote from="FlargBlarg »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/816321-prison-block-mafia-ii-day-1-orange-dawn?comment=275"]
Ahhh I did miss this post. And that sort of energy is out of character for KJ regardless of alignment. I think it was over posting coming of a end game high from seasons.
Welp gotta vote against my buddy vote: Zion
I don't really think Zion is a wolf as of yet, and I'm still more inclined to believe him on his meta, but I don't really want to Lynch Jack today for doing Jack things?
Zion is more likely to flip wolf based on his posts then Jack is, I think? If we want to be statistical
This is extremely premature
TL;DR:
Grape / LW / Zionite are my scumreads.
Strong townread on Slothful.
Grape / LW / Zionite are my scumreads.
Strong townread on Slothful.
I don't think last is scum. He's poking at me to get me involved, and not doing any shading in the process. I don't see a scum motive for that, it feels more like the opposite of how he'd want to approach me
I’m getting a real defensive vibe from Zion and Jackrito. Is this typical from these players? They’re both exhibiting some “anyone but me” and Flargbarg is like a pivot point? I like Flarg’s approach so scum theatre isn’t a thing but, I kinda think there’s one in Zion/Jackrito.
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
Rhand: for fun. He was the only one who presented any sort of list of townreads, iirc.
Sorry, meant to clarify: I don't have any strong objections to those non-me players (tom/Wisp/KJ/Zionite) being town.
I think I've played with Zionite once, and definitely recall him feeling scummier than he probably was (and I think he was town, whatever game it was, since he hasn't been scum since 2015), but it's probably because he's an oldie or something.
ok between a player named Jack, and using YWF and Ter there are too many ways to confuse me and others with names in this game. Just use the actual present handles....
ok between a player named Jack, and using YWF and Ter there are too many ways to confuse me and others with names in this game. Just use the actual present handles....
@GJ: Good to see you again! I'm guessing since you haven't commented on the game, you share the sentiment that nothing of substance is worth mentioning, or are you just settling in?
pRETTY much settling in. I started working in Accounting a month ago, and during busy season. Trying to figure out my work/life balance. Also didn't realize this game started Saturday and weekends are awful for me.
It's been a while yourself sir. I guess to get me into it, why is Sloth not a Zionite fan?
Rhand: for fun. He was the only one who presented any sort of list of townreads, iirc.
Jack: on a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy playing scum? Playing town? I might ask Last a followup question depending on the answers to this.
I would say a 9 as scum since it is my preferred role. Town would be a 6-7 I just enjoy playing overal, but have more fun as scum since actually having info, makes life easier and the ability to control the game. I like town, but until recently struggled with the right way to scum hunt since I lack conviction a lot of time, since fellow town players in my exp play worse and more scummy then scum. So it is a lot harder to find scum in the mess of bad town.
I’m getting a real defensive vibe from Zion and Jackrito. Is this typical from these players? They’re both exhibiting some “anyone but me” and Flargbarg is like a pivot point? I like Flarg’s approach so scum theatre isn’t a thing but, I kinda think there’s one in Zion/Jackrito.
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
How are you getting defensive from Zio? If any emotion could be extracted from him, I am getting apathy...
So I'm being accused of being opportunistic, not even sure at what point I was since not even voted yet since still working things out. But this post and vote is fine ok then, I would class this as opportunistic. It also lies within the area of self pres to a degree but too early for that I feel.
The point of being opportunistic is the core of my vote, and my town-read on Grape and KCC supporting your wagon. Your first post was #172, in this post you don't commit to anything at all. There's qualifiers on every read, even Flarg which seemed the strongest read for you. Let me just illustrate what I see:
OK finally got around to this game, and after reading everything I really don't have as much of a stance on people that I would like. The best I can offer is Killjoy for me is town for now their posts just come off as casual, but this is easy to fake for some people so not much of a town read.
Flarg can also be town for his approach early actually trying to get the game moving forward, and had some conviction, sadly as soon as pushed they backed down ,and went back to Wisp this worries me since it looked like panic so went to a safer vote, maybe just me being overly paranoid though so with that in mind my view may change but town for now.
Apart from that some slight town reads on others namely Vamies, Rhand but more just gut then anything of substance, I sadly have no real scum reads at this point but this is likely still RVS so not that shocking but annoying all the same. Zionite style is perhaps the most triggering to me as scum but not really sure what about it bothers me. KCC and Tubba also post but add nothing really but maybe i'm expecting too much this early though.
Only person I have real exp with is Wisp who is playing weird so not sure how to read it atm since he gave reasons which make sense so null on him for now.
Getting used to longer day phases is going to be weird since I like things done at a faster tempo, getting used to the different culture and peoples existing dyanmics with each other is going to be new as well.
Could you take any more actions to have less of a committed stance? That's what's 'triggering' for me. The opportunistic part is where you continue to do this 'hedging' in post after post, and I don't understand why you're not already voting me if you think I'm fake and scum.
@Flarg: What's the difference between my posts and Jackaritos?
So, now that it's been answered, what exactly prompted this question?
See above. I see this turfing of half-reads so that Jack can go with whatever vote is beneficial later down the road and it won't be weird because the read was half-right. It seems like Jack is keeping options open. The question was posed to see if Flarg thought this was a problem as well, which it doesn't seem to be the case.
Time to look at Zion and Grape since they are the main ones pushing me, so I want to look at if this is from a town mindset, or just a attempt to get a lynch through on just anyone.
I don't like that you're only concerned with the players voting you.
Ok after looking at Zion which I have being meaning to do anyway, since they have stood out to me most this game as being off. Like Fralge said they is a bit of a disconnect at times, if that is the right way to say it. They are attempts to do things like pushing Wisp and talking about the meta gaming early. All of it just feels weak and lacks commitment to a degree I guess.
First real post is 153 his stance on Wisp sounds good, but like I said just feels lacking and he let it go too easy. Also says they don't like Grape but follow them onto me later, intrested to see if this makes sense off his later posts. Last part holds the most intrest though since they claim to be the center of the attention because they love mafia, so why does everything feel half arsed. This triggers me because in a later post they say last game they played as scum they tried too hard and should of kept head down more. This would fit in with their approach so far more reserved.
Nothing said in rest of posts really stands out their view on Grape never really changed either apart from understanding mindset more then my own. Which is normal in mafia we all have our own styles. In my overall view they are doing just enough to be seen as town on surface level but on a deeper level everything looks a bit fake and going through motions of what a town should do.
Lacks commitment? So you'd agree with me that lacking commitment would look scummy, right? Just holding you to the same logic you're using for me.[/quote]
Ok I have issues with this you claim part of your reason for voting me is because you town read Grape and KCC, explain to me how and why last time you talked about Grape it sounded like you scumread him more then anything. Also KCC RVS me and not done enough to be anything but null so I find this stance hard to believe and just sounds like a excuse.
On me hedgeing why would I not at that point in the game I don't have god knowledge on people's side so lack confidence in my reads since people can just be bad town or have a weird play style. My way is to slowly evaluate a person over time and weigh negs to pos. Expecting me to have conviction on people in my first post is a bit extreme as well. On why I'm not voting you not really sure, but considering it everyone knows my view so no need to vote really.
Also I'm not only concerned with those voting me, but since I know my role it makes sense to me that those pushing me could be scum so not a bad place to start, I have gave thoughts on others as well so this is false that I only focus on those voting me.
On lack of conviction yes it looks bad I know that and why I'm used to defending myself, my issue is more that your every action lacks conviction rather then just reads on people, the back down on Wisp and other things just feels like trying to do enough. Rather then wanting to catch scum. Also I'm a hypocrite
The "feels like I am doing something" is what makes me not like it. You should want to actually do something. Also, how would you know I'm not just doing Zionite things? It's not consistent. Also, what's the deal with the statistical argument anyway?
While I may have backed off pressure, I haven't changed my mind on your possible alignment. Either you're scum hiding behind an aloof act or that's just how you play. I don't know yet. But nothing you've shown has given me town vibes.
Day 1 is such a slog, and a majority of the wolves tend to hide in between sheeping town's thoughts, or just outright lurk. Our brains will focus on the people actually posting, and forget about the people doing very little
I want to avoid posting prematurely or unnecessarily
I don't feel like looking back at my posts right now to answer the point on statistical arguments
and I could easily hide behind an aloof act if I wanted to, as well as I don't think for the most part you should be getting town vibes from me, if you don't know me, so that's fine, not really here to help you read me, i'm just here to figure out this game
Grape / LW / Zionite are my scumreads.
Strong townread on Slothful.
I don't think last is scum. He's poking at me to get me involved, and not doing any shading in the process. I don't see a scum motive for that, it feels more like the opposite of how he'd want to approach me
none of that is really any other then, "I think this makes Last town", its not strong per say
anyways, why are you voting Grape?
Quote from Rhand »
LW feels different than his town!game. He’s more direct, concise and steering.
honestly nothing against u Rhand, but like any bit of effort on my part to literally not blow up the game, gets turned in toreasons to wolf read me, literally egging my on to respond, and it just feels like shade
Gut says YWFMLF is town too. Few posts, but strong posts.
my gut says you are town
I wanted to be cute and claim another N0 but I think that makes me come off as even more disingenuous
Flarg is a town lean
Killjoy is fine for now
Rhand seems fine?
Jack is null, but someone I don't want to lynch
Zion is considerably null as well, but I would vote him over Jack
I am not touching Vaimes slot with a 10-inch pole after how I treated him in the last game, he is currently ok given his meta anyways
Grape is a good train? I don't have any reason to hate it atm
I said I wasn't gonna do walls....and that lasted....8 posts....Screw it.
A. YWFMLF
E. FlargBlarg
Actually like 29# Vaimes cull a cell idea seems to me to be start of game *****post fluff but I see the benefit in discussing game mechanics a long with actual interactions.#52 pursues it beyond game mechanics(which is why I call BS on saying meta/mechanics convo is useless) and he begins pressuring his reads. Take the new info and reevaluates positions. Towny to me. All that said?
I also generally view "haha, i'm making a joke" posts as a minor scumtell - they don't actually achieve anything and are a useful tool to generate thread presence and display a lighthearted/jovial tone to come across as Town tonally, so I feel like Scum actually jokepost slightly more often.
Disagree with this so much. I’ve never really seen a correlation between *****posting and alignment….it’s more just the personality of the player then a tell across the board. And they DO achieve things given Flarg was able to use them to generate conversation…conversation that lead to him pressuring Vaimes then leaning off when clarification was given.
B. Killjoy
Like #46 for the same reasons as 29. I think there’s something to be gained by looking at the mechanics path this early on. We can do more than scum hunt…we can also game solve especially this early on.
Like the pressing in #212 of Grape who…doesn’t seem to be saying much with a lot of text,
C. Slothful
As with Rand agree with his #178. Also way to blow the mystery of my acronym, ass.
Example: I can see a world where Zi is scum and Flarg is their partner.
Maybe.
Not sure.
Certainly won't elaborate now.
How about now?
I know you’ve moved him to tentative town but what was pinging you in that previous zi/flarg world?
E. Vaimes
Approaching with caution due to my tunneling bull*****tery last game. Present in a way that has substance. Isn’t just saying things to say them but actually pressing for info and replying to pressure.
E. Rhand
Agree with his 112. Comes out the gate strong with a supported vote…not just throwing ***** out to see what sticks.
A. Grapefuit21
Feeling meh. Most of his post thus far are “Jack’s very similar to me!” and little in the way of looking at others. Okay…kindred spirit in Jack. Move on ask questions…seems very passive and come to me instead of seeking info.
B. Gentleman Johnny
He’s town because he is also an accountant.
C. Tubba Fett
He’s prison Mike he’s already dealing with demeanors….in all seriousness though…need more from him to get anywhere
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
Can’t read a ghost.
A. Tomsloger
Prob a dumb question given common naming but same Tom from DLP or no?
its not about a sentence using "excited" diction. Its about an approach.
In that post rhand quoted hes talking about tells that likely arent real during RVS stage. He basically listened to me about backing off last but expressed he didnt have anything else to do.
That is someone <excited> for this game to get going so he can solve it. As rhand said it does feel like a rusty player. Which i also just... know to be true.
But based on "rusty" it feels like hes tilting at windmills to get loose, not like hes "just doing stuff to shake off the rust"
Which is a subtle difference but i think im into it
hat do you mean my excitedly premature?
“Excitedly premature” would support rusty by your argument yes….but not alignment.
The cryptic play at the start just came off as weird to me.
It's still probably fake. This game is unlikely to have a straight alignment check, especially a N0, especially especially one that just happened to land on Last
Why is it unlikely?
C. Lastwhisper
Not a fan of the N0 claim this early on now that I get that its a thing. It seems a great way to just coast and end any conversation when it comes to a player (in this case sloth) Why come out the gate so early with this when there’s no wagon on him? Hell there wasn’t even pressure. Premature as hell throw out a asset when there’s very little reason to do so. Screams buddying to me (Am I using that term right?)
I mean if people are being fluffy maybe they are being fluffy? Why does it have to mean anything? And what does this scum ping mean? That's my problem, it's just a general, "I have a bad feeling."
It doesn't say anything
Posting pictures of Percy the pug if fluffy for fluffy…..posting stuff that amount to “These are scummy/towny actions! (but I’m not saying I think the people doing them are scum/town)” isn’t fluff its static disguised as content. They’re very different. As is a scum ping….it implies something particular it setting your read off not just a general “I have a bad feeling about this”
Attempts to game the setup with a cell block analysis seems suspicious to me, but with not much to go on I understand the sentiment. Just the idea of 'let's make this meta thing the topic' distracts from actual evaluation of posts and it's fluff. Within page one however it makes some sense. I would be much more suspicious if there was other evidence to go on.
But yeah, it's random per rules.
….i dislike this post immensely. It’s hemming and hawing in such an unneeded way and ends up casting doubt but saying nothing/taking no stance. “This action is scummy (but I get it) it’s distracting from game play! (but it makes sense)”
It’s fluff disguised as meaningful with a whole lot of plausibility deniability.
I also don't think we're going to break the game open with soft claims. Agreed with FlargBlarg on that.
….you agree with him by saying the exact opposite of what he said? Flarg said he plays the flavor close the chest in case theres some link….not that sharing soft claims isn’t going to break the game.
Interesting that Lastwhisper isn't mentioned in regards to "joke" posts, @FlargBlarg. Especially since you did mention a run-away vote train on LW is beneficial to you for reads. Why does LW get a pass?
Hm...Unvote
…que? He’s literally voting for him how is that a pass? this isn’t unobservant this is not reading the game.
Lol Rhand. What do you want me to do? I think we're getting to a substantive spot. Admittedly nothing to go after right now, give it time. I only ask you let me do my thing when the thread gets juicy, and evaluate me based on that.
This kinda…supports what Rhand says with rusty scum. If there’s nothing for you to go on why post just for the sake of presence? Why not just ***** post then? Basically this comes down to lol don’t judge me by how scummy I’m acting…wait til later when I’ve gotten the hang of this to reevaluate.
The best I can offer is Killjoy for me is town for now their posts just come off as casual, but this is easy to fake for some people so not much of a town read.
Flarg can also be town for his approach early actually trying to get the game moving forward, and had some conviction, sadly as soon as pushed they backed down ,and went back to Wisp this worries me since it looked like panic so went to a safer vote, maybe just me being overly paranoid though so with that in mind my view may change but town for now.
Apart from that some slight town reads on others namely Vamies, Rhand but more just gut then anything of substance, I sadly have no real scum reads at this point but this is likely still RVS so not that shocking but annoying all the same. Zionite style is perhaps the most triggering to me as scum but not really sure what about it bothers me. KCC and Tubba also post but add nothing really but maybe i'm expecting too much this early though.
Only person I have real exp with is Wisp who is playing weird so not sure how to read it atm since he gave reasons which make sense so null on him for now.
Getting used to longer day phases is going to be weird since I like things done at a faster tempo, getting used to the different culture and peoples existing dyanmics with each other is going to be new as well.
Everything about this is very Wishy washy to me…..a lot of words that amount to “they might be town/scum cause I feel they are…but I may be wrong”
The most definitive stand seems to be Flarg and I don’t see panic at all….I see someone who had a read, pressed the issue and backed off when the explanation set the concern he had at ease.
Flarg is a good lynch for info gathering since they have being the centre of attention so far, like I said eariler I see them as a slight town read but that has fell a bit recently. I want to relook at them as a whole to be sure.
Your stronger read is again the person actually actively scum hunting….because you’ll get info?
I’m getting a real defensive vibe from Zion and Jackrito. Is this typical from these players? They’re both exhibiting some “anyone but me” and Flargbarg is like a pivot point? I like Flarg’s approach so scum theatre isn’t a thing but, I kinda think there’s one in Zion/Jackrito.
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
How are you getting defensive from Zio? If any emotion could be extracted from him, I am getting apathy...
It was his response to Flarg in which he wondered what was the difference between jack’s posts and his. Define apathy and how it applies to Zionite.
Ok I have issues with this you claim part of your reason for voting me is because you town read Grape and KCC, explain to me how and why last time you talked about Grape it sounded like you scumread him more then anything. Also KCC RVS me and not done enough to be anything but null so I find this stance hard to believe and just sounds like a excuse.
This is a good point. My first reaction was, oops my fault for not unvoting my rvs yet, but, yeah, if it's a main reason for Zion's vote, he should be reading the game and actually know why I was voting Jack
I would say a 9 as scum since it is my preferred role. Town would be a 6-7 I just enjoy playing overal, but have more fun as scum since actually having info, makes life easier and the ability to control the game. I like town, but until recently struggled with the right way to scum hunt since I lack conviction a lot of time, since fellow town players in my exp play worse and more scummy then scum. So it is a lot harder to find scum in the mess of bad town.
My follow up with Last was just gonna be asking him to verify if you like playing scum more, and if you're good at it. He can answer if he wants, buuut I dig the whole "I like controlling the game" thing.
OK finally got around to this game, and after reading everything I really don't have as much of a stance on people that I would like. The best I can offer is Killjoy for me is town for now their posts just come off as casual, but this is easy to fake for some people so not much of a town read.
Flarg can also be town for his approach early actually trying to get the game moving forward, and had some conviction, sadly as soon as pushed they backed down, and went back to Wisp this worries me since it looked like panic so went to a safer vote, maybe just me being overly paranoid though so with that in mind my view may change but town for now.
Apart from that some slight town reads on others namely Vamies, Rhand but more just gut then anything of substance, I sadly have no real scum reads at this point but this is likely still RVS so not that shocking but annoying all the same. Zionite style is perhaps the most triggering to me as scum but not really sure what about it bothers me. KCC and Tubba also post but add nothing really but maybe i'm expecting too much this early though.
Only person I have real exp with is Wisp who is playing weird so not sure how to read it atm since he gave reasons which make sense so null on him for now.
Getting used to longer day phases is going to be weird since I like things done at a faster tempo, getting used to the different culture and peoples existing dyanmics with each other is going to be new as well.
Could you take any more actions to have less of a committed stance? That's what's 'triggering' for me. The opportunistic part is where you continue to do this 'hedging' in post after post, and I don't understand why you're not already voting me if you think I'm fake and scum.
@Flarg: What's the difference between my posts and Jackaritos?
So, now that it's been answered, what exactly prompted this question?
See above. I see this turfing of half-reads so that Jack can go with whatever vote is beneficial later down the road and it won't be weird because the read was half-right. It seems like Jack is keeping options open. The question was posed to see if Flarg thought this was a problem as well, which it doesn't seem to be the case.
Hm. Nah, sorry, not seeing it.
If this was, say, halfway into D2, or even closing on the deadline of D1, I’d probably be swayed more by the argument, but this early in the game such response are not uncommon. Plus it seems more of him working out his thoughts, which is…how thinking works.
Ok after looking at Zion which I have being meaning to do anyway, since they have stood out to me most this game as being off. Like Fralge said they is a bit of a disconnect at times, if that is the right way to say it. They are attempts to do things like pushing Wisp and talking about the meta gaming early. All of it just feels weak and lacks commitment to a degree I guess.
Lacks commitment? So you'd agree with me that lacking commitment would look scummy, right? Just holding you to the same logic you're using for me.
Also, this was a really long-winded way of saying OMGUS.
I’m getting a real defensive vibe from Zion and Jackrito. Is this typical from these players? They’re both exhibiting some “anyone but me” and Flargbarg is like a pivot point? I like Flarg’s approach so scum theatre isn’t a thing but, I kinda think there’s one in Zion/Jackrito.
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
How are you getting defensive from Zio? If any emotion could be extracted from him, I am getting apathy...
It was his response to Flarg in which he wondered what was the difference between jack’s posts and his. Define apathy and how it applies to Zionite.
Apathy = doesn't really care. Defensiveness by its definition implies care. Zio doesn't really seem worried about his wagon. I didn't really get defensiveness from his post on his posts vs jacks.
Oh, I guess I need to actually vote if I'm gonna start a counterwagon
vote grape
Interesting. Talk to me about this more read.
I see it’s gaining some steam, but my only experience with Grape is a game in MU where I picked up oddities somewhat similar to those you’re bringing up, and wasted a lot of time chasing him on it, only for him to be town.
What would town!Grape have done differently?
I’m getting a real defensive vibe from Zion and Jackrito. Is this typical from these players? They’re both exhibiting some “anyone but me” and Flargbarg is like a pivot point? I like Flarg’s approach so scum theatre isn’t a thing but, I kinda think there’s one in Zion/Jackrito.
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
Prison Mike, what was the worst thing about prison???
He re-evaluated when he didnt have to on Vaimes? which shows he isnt maliciously trying to push things?
His progression on me went from RVS, to I am ok with this again, I believe is due to my fluff question? which maybe he believes that makes me a wolf? its definitely a decent enough reason to vote someone at the time?
so he is still pretty null leaning towards lower end town?
I think him asking about my meta in regards to my emotions is a question either alignment would ask?
You've never seen "soandso was endgamed!" as a cause of death when Town loses? Or like, a player talk about not wanting to live for a long time just to get endgamed? Much be a regional dialect I guess (#utica).
I state it with some level of certainty because I've been playing mafia for a long time, and the things I said are true in a broad sense. I didn't think it was true of Vaimes specifically, but rather that it would be true of any player.
I'm putting Flarg as tentatively Town.
He makes too much sense and voices thoughts I had but decided not to share just in case. If we're mind-melding and he's scum, then I'm truly cocking things up royally - so here's hoping I notice it eventually if so!
Ok, time to sleep. Wanna see more of Tubba, GJ, YWF and Rhand (hope you're feeling better!) tomorrow.
I think Dork hasn't posted at all?
Thoughts for later. Night!
Maybe by then ZDS will have posted?
The "feels like I am doing something" is what makes me not like it. You should want to actually do something. Also, how would you know I'm not just doing Zionite things? It's not consistent. Also, what's the deal with the statistical argument anyway?
While I may have backed off pressure, I haven't changed my mind on your possible alignment. Either you're scum hiding behind an aloof act or that's just how you play. I don't know yet. But nothing you've shown has given me town vibes.
For me it started with the first post, but subsequent posts started cementing the read for me. I'll get to that and show why.
The point of being opportunistic is the core of my vote, and my town-read on Grape and KCC supporting your wagon. Your first post was #172, in this post you don't commit to anything at all. There's qualifiers on every read, even Flarg which seemed the strongest read for you. Let me just illustrate what I see:
Could you take any more actions to have less of a committed stance? That's what's 'triggering' for me. The opportunistic part is where you continue to do this 'hedging' in post after post, and I don't understand why you're not already voting me if you think I'm fake and scum.
See above. I see this turfing of half-reads so that Jack can go with whatever vote is beneficial later down the road and it won't be weird because the read was half-right. It seems like Jack is keeping options open. The question was posed to see if Flarg thought this was a problem as well, which it doesn't seem to be the case.
I don't like that you're only concerned with the players voting you.
Lacks commitment? So you'd agree with me that lacking commitment would look scummy, right? Just holding you to the same logic you're using for me.
What actually seems more likely to you:
Jack decided he wanted to keep his options open, but made a wall anyway, so he had to sprinkle in 9 hedges in order to keep flexible on all 14 other players, none of whom had major wagons.
Jack is Town and it's a stream-of-consciousness post so you're catching him reconsidering everything as he writes it.
There's a huge difference between posting stances that you walk back in the same post (Jack) vs posting, but not posting anything game impacting (you up until your vote on last page)
Oh. Yeah, I don't support that wagon, that's RVS
unvote
Here, I'll stop being lazy:
I don't think this is townGrape. The whole spoiler just completely undercuts any point to this post and feels needlessly defensive
And the kj bit. I'm not sure if that's light buddy defense or TMIing a town KJ, but either way, I don't understand the line of "KJ is acting weird" -> "let's ignore that" as being sincere
vote grape
I strongly disagree. Especially that sentence that he would be more suspicious if there was other evidence is just… not a real thought.
I get what you’re saying here, but it doesn’t explain my problem with the post:
Also, tom, there was a question for you here that you didn’t answer:
Can we please just be on the same team for once?
There’s something off in the progression of these Grape posts:
I have reads, my real stance is I don’t have reads, the reads (that I don’t have) are on tone.
Add to that his uncalled for use of percentages, and we’re probably looking at scum!Grape.
vote Grape
I like Slothful a lot for picking out the exact same posts as I did to react on.
LW feels different than his town!game. He’s more direct, concise and steering.
Why would you start from Grape’s reads for this?
When have you seen KJ as mafia?
This is extremely premature
TL;DR:
Grape / LW / Zionite are my scumreads.
Strong townread on Slothful.
I don't think last is scum. He's poking at me to get me involved, and not doing any shading in the process. I don't see a scum motive for that, it feels more like the opposite of how he'd want to approach me
I stole. And I robbed. And I kidnapped... the President's son. And held him for ransom.
Jack: on a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy playing scum? Playing town? I might ask Last a followup question depending on the answers to this.
I think I've played with Zionite once, and definitely recall him feeling scummier than he probably was (and I think he was town, whatever game it was, since he hasn't been scum since 2015), but it's probably because he's an oldie or something.
ok between a player named Jack, and using YWF and Ter there are too many ways to confuse me and others with names in this game. Just use the actual present handles....
Re: LW: I don't believe his N0 check is true, and there's no town gain in gambiting a N0.
Yuuuuuppppp
And I never got caught neither!
pRETTY much settling in. I started working in Accounting a month ago, and during busy season. Trying to figure out my work/life balance. Also didn't realize this game started Saturday and weekends are awful for me.
It's been a while yourself sir. I guess to get me into it, why is Sloth not a Zionite fan?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I would say a 9 as scum since it is my preferred role. Town would be a 6-7 I just enjoy playing overal, but have more fun as scum since actually having info, makes life easier and the ability to control the game. I like town, but until recently struggled with the right way to scum hunt since I lack conviction a lot of time, since fellow town players in my exp play worse and more scummy then scum. So it is a lot harder to find scum in the mess of bad town.
How are you getting defensive from Zio? If any emotion could be extracted from him, I am getting apathy...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am a tired John.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The point of being opportunistic is the core of my vote, and my town-read on Grape and KCC supporting your wagon. Your first post was #172, in this post you don't commit to anything at all. There's qualifiers on every read, even Flarg which seemed the strongest read for you. Let me just illustrate what I see:
Could you take any more actions to have less of a committed stance? That's what's 'triggering' for me. The opportunistic part is where you continue to do this 'hedging' in post after post, and I don't understand why you're not already voting me if you think I'm fake and scum.
See above. I see this turfing of half-reads so that Jack can go with whatever vote is beneficial later down the road and it won't be weird because the read was half-right. It seems like Jack is keeping options open. The question was posed to see if Flarg thought this was a problem as well, which it doesn't seem to be the case.
I don't like that you're only concerned with the players voting you.
Lacks commitment? So you'd agree with me that lacking commitment would look scummy, right? Just holding you to the same logic you're using for me.[/quote]
Ok I have issues with this you claim part of your reason for voting me is because you town read Grape and KCC, explain to me how and why last time you talked about Grape it sounded like you scumread him more then anything. Also KCC RVS me and not done enough to be anything but null so I find this stance hard to believe and just sounds like a excuse.
On me hedgeing why would I not at that point in the game I don't have god knowledge on people's side so lack confidence in my reads since people can just be bad town or have a weird play style. My way is to slowly evaluate a person over time and weigh negs to pos. Expecting me to have conviction on people in my first post is a bit extreme as well. On why I'm not voting you not really sure, but considering it everyone knows my view so no need to vote really.
Also I'm not only concerned with those voting me, but since I know my role it makes sense to me that those pushing me could be scum so not a bad place to start, I have gave thoughts on others as well so this is false that I only focus on those voting me.
On lack of conviction yes it looks bad I know that and why I'm used to defending myself, my issue is more that your every action lacks conviction rather then just reads on people, the back down on Wisp and other things just feels like trying to do enough. Rather then wanting to catch scum. Also I'm a hypocrite
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I want to avoid posting prematurely or unnecessarily
I don't feel like looking back at my posts right now to answer the point on statistical arguments
and I could easily hide behind an aloof act if I wanted to, as well as I don't think for the most part you should be getting town vibes from me, if you don't know me, so that's fine, not really here to help you read me, i'm just here to figure out this game
none of that is really any other then, "I think this makes Last town", its not strong per say
anyways, why are you voting Grape?
honestly nothing against u Rhand, but like any bit of effort on my part to literally not blow up the game, gets turned in toreasons to wolf read me, literally egging my on to respond, and it just feels like shade
it wasn't a gambit... I just wanted people to talk lmao
this isnt really an arguement, lacking commitment doesn't mean someone has to be a wolf, but it doesn't mean they can't be a wolf
P.S:
I see why KCC is voting Grape nowThe GJ way path to no lynching:
No it just messed up the quotes I was responding to Zion
I wanted to be cute and claim another N0 but I think that makes me come off as even more disingenuous
Flarg is a town lean
Killjoy is fine for now
Rhand seems fine?
Jack is null, but someone I don't want to lynch
Zion is considerably null as well, but I would vote him over Jack
I am not touching Vaimes slot with a 10-inch pole after how I treated him in the last game, he is currently ok given his meta anyways
Grape is a good train? I don't have any reason to hate it atm
A. YWFMLF
E. FlargBlarg
Actually like 29# Vaimes cull a cell idea seems to me to be start of game *****post fluff but I see the benefit in discussing game mechanics a long with actual interactions.#52 pursues it beyond game mechanics(which is why I call BS on saying meta/mechanics convo is useless) and he begins pressuring his reads. Take the new info and reevaluates positions. Towny to me. All that said?
Disagree with this so much. I’ve never really seen a correlation between *****posting and alignment….it’s more just the personality of the player then a tell across the board. And they DO achieve things given Flarg was able to use them to generate conversation…conversation that lead to him pressuring Vaimes then leaning off when clarification was given.
B. Killjoy
Like #46 for the same reasons as 29. I think there’s something to be gained by looking at the mechanics path this early on. We can do more than scum hunt…we can also game solve especially this early on.
Like the pressing in #212 of Grape who…doesn’t seem to be saying much with a lot of text,
C. Slothful
As with Rand agree with his #178. Also way to blow the mystery of my acronym, ass.
Really? Nothing about that seemed similar to Zion’s talk for the sake of talking but take not positions post to you?
How about now?
I know you’ve moved him to tentative town but what was pinging you in that previous zi/flarg world?
E. Vaimes
Approaching with caution due to my tunneling bull*****tery last game. Present in a way that has substance. Isn’t just saying things to say them but actually pressing for info and replying to pressure.
E. Rhand
Agree with his 112. Comes out the gate strong with a supported vote…not just throwing ***** out to see what sticks.
A. Grapefuit21
Feeling meh. Most of his post thus far are “Jack’s very similar to me!” and little in the way of looking at others. Okay…kindred spirit in Jack. Move on ask questions…seems very passive and come to me instead of seeking info.
B. Gentleman Johnny
He’s town because he is also an accountant.
C. Tubba Fett
He’s prison Mike he’s already dealing with demeanors….in all seriousness though…need more from him to get anywhere
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
Can’t read a ghost.
A. Tomsloger
Prob a dumb question given common naming but same Tom from DLP or no?
hat do you mean my excitedly premature?
“Excitedly premature” would support rusty by your argument yes….but not alignment.
The cryptic play at the start just came off as weird to me.
D. KittyCupCake
Why is it unlikely?
C. Lastwhisper
Not a fan of the N0 claim this early on now that I get that its a thing. It seems a great way to just coast and end any conversation when it comes to a player (in this case sloth) Why come out the gate so early with this when there’s no wagon on him? Hell there wasn’t even pressure. Premature as hell throw out a asset when there’s very little reason to do so. Screams buddying to me (Am I using that term right?)
Posting pictures of Percy the pug if fluffy for fluffy…..posting stuff that amount to “These are scummy/towny actions! (but I’m not saying I think the people doing them are scum/town)” isn’t fluff its static disguised as content. They’re very different. As is a scum ping….it implies something particular it setting your read off not just a general “I have a bad feeling about this”
B. Zionite
….i dislike this post immensely. It’s hemming and hawing in such an unneeded way and ends up casting doubt but saying nothing/taking no stance. “This action is scummy (but I get it) it’s distracting from game play! (but it makes sense)”
It’s fluff disguised as meaningful with a whole lot of plausibility deniability.
….you agree with him by saying the exact opposite of what he said? Flarg said he plays the flavor close the chest in case theres some link….not that sharing soft claims isn’t going to break the game.
…que? He’s literally voting for him how is that a pass? this isn’t unobservant this is not reading the game.
This kinda…supports what Rhand says with rusty scum. If there’s nothing for you to go on why post just for the sake of presence? Why not just ***** post then? Basically this comes down to lol don’t judge me by how scummy I’m acting…wait til later when I’ve gotten the hang of this to reevaluate.
Ask questions then. It just seems like the posts are “I’m totally not scum…just wait and see I’m not scum!”
D. Jackrito
Everything about this is very Wishy washy to me…..a lot of words that amount to “they might be town/scum cause I feel they are…but I may be wrong”
The most definitive stand seems to be Flarg and I don’t see panic at all….I see someone who had a read, pressed the issue and backed off when the explanation set the concern he had at ease.
Your stronger read is again the person actually actively scum hunting….because you’ll get info?
…have they? The person I’ve seen you talk most about is Flarg. Now that Zi is voting you he’s suddenly a prime suspect?
It was his response to Flarg in which he wondered what was the difference between jack’s posts and his. Define apathy and how it applies to Zionite.
No, his quote tags got broken.
I haven't read anything yet, let me catch up a bit.
This is a good point. My first reaction was, oops my fault for not unvoting my rvs yet, but, yeah, if it's a main reason for Zion's vote, he should be reading the game and actually know why I was voting Jack
Site meta. Pure alignment checks are pretty frowned upon here
I know we've played together before 2019, did something happen to your old account?
Ter, why bother with a wall when half of it isn't really saying much?
Catch up and getting all my thoughts into a neatish (for me) pile.
....also uuuugh knew I should've just gone with TerRaine again. It was just easier to use my more updated username.
If this was, say, halfway into D2, or even closing on the deadline of D1, I’d probably be swayed more by the argument, but this early in the game such response are not uncommon. Plus it seems more of him working out his thoughts, which is…how thinking works.
Also, this was a really long-winded way of saying OMGUS.
how well can you read YWF?
Apathy = doesn't really care. Defensiveness by its definition implies care. Zio doesn't really seem worried about his wagon. I didn't really get defensiveness from his post on his posts vs jacks.
@LW
Pocket application pending.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
YWFMLF
Zionite
Slothful
Tubba Fett
Jackrito
KittyCupCake
FlargBlarg
Some of them have reasons
o-0. Spicy
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I see it’s gaining some steam, but my only experience with Grape is a game in MU where I picked up oddities somewhat similar to those you’re bringing up, and wasted a lot of time chasing him on it, only for him to be town.
What would town!Grape have done differently?
What would you say the ratio of reasons to no reasons is?