KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I will say
I may be a bit worse at trying to figure out balance in this game than usual. Me and DV have differing opinions on role power level, and have argued in games about it.
But i do think he has the sort of mind that would want to balance this game not only town vs scum but throughout the game.
Whether that means approximately equal power in each season, or even a more complicated model like <info early, disruption late> or <more power later seasons to make up for unlikely double use>
Dkings with only summer power targeting but always on? Or is it different
Axel has some stuff but summer is best. More useful if hes still around second time summer rolls around because smaller pool to choose from
Kcc i think it was delay/rb/busdrive? Busdrive being the same night as a town watcher/bodyguard would make it pretty good at filtering a kill through different towny. (Guess i forgot this one in the ways DV might have balanced it. Scum in summer having specific tools for towns summer roles, etc for other seasons. If dkings is town that interacts with scum daykill theres some evidence dv DID think about that sort of thing)
But thats also her most important season being summer
If all three are town, and scum daykill has got to be a 4th person whos most important season is summer.
Which is almost a quarter of the game already
And im not sure how masons and maybe nacho fit in with maybe not caring what season it is at all?
So it already seems over represented with... like 10 people unclaimed
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I dont think ive in particular said anything about your alignment. Dont really think going for postnums is likely to give me a strong feeling in any direction.
But perhaps theres something in the why. And perhaps theres some meaning to you taking that question as some kind of direct attack that i could "fully believe"
What do you think if my read that you and rhand are the same alignment? Im not sure how well you were following my dope rhymes
Kj why do you care more about post numbers than solving?
Why did I take this as a disparagement of my alignment? Because not caring about solving the game is a thing that scum do. Scum don't need to solve the game, they know who the scum are and who's town. That's what you're accusing me of, and you pretending that your not is ???. And pretending like my defensiveness comes out of nowhere is similarly ???.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not gonna translate stuff, no. But we can talk
I watched you and him go at eachother a bit and there was no caution no hedging no... sign from either of you youd have to deal with being wrong.
The whole back and forth felt like two people who think theyre right. Thus i conclude: two wrong villagers or two bussing partners.
And the feeling has held ever since
Im saying its obvious hyperbole/***** talk and you pretending you think its serious blah blah blah weve been doing this for years kj you take everything many times more seriously than me ive adjusted to you a bit pls do the same
As for your question, I suspect Rhand is town, so you might be correct. Insofar as the opinion in regards to you, it's not unreasonable based on his interactions with me I suppose. If you mentioned it in your raps IDK.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You didnt before.
You know i have no problem with *****posting and read into things in ways you dont expect. so why dont you answer why and see if i say something interesting about it instead of immediately raising your hackles
Not gonna translate stuff, no. But we can talk
I watched you and him go at eachother a bit and there was no caution no hedging no... sign from either of you youd have to deal with being wrong.
The whole back and forth felt like two people who think theyre right. Thus i conclude: two wrong villagers or two bussing partners.
And the feeling has held ever since
Im saying its obvious hyperbole/***** talk and you pretending you think its serious blah blah blah weve been doing this for years kj you take everything many times more seriously than me ive adjusted to you a bit pls do the same
Yes, and I'm it's such hyperbole that I had a thought that nobody would reasonably believe it. You said yourself I take things more seriously than usual, so maybe I don't realize what your saying isn't serious immediately. You didn't really give me a chance to get they're really.
How did you envision that conversation going if I realized you were ***** talking immediately?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You didnt before.
You know i have no problem with *****posting and read into things in ways you dont expect. so why dont you answer why and see if i say something interesting about it instead of immediately raising your hackles
ya big ol goof
it's a game that originated in... Modern spec chat? Then continued in Eurovision.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Oh well thats not that interesting other than if you and vaimes were scum together hed likely be as stoked about it as you and using it to create a little distance...
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If we get another daykill toDay, LW needs to die.
I’m actually thinking it might be a good idea to end this Day asap and hope whoever has that role hasn’t checked in yet.
We won’t be getting any real info now anyways with no one voting for lynch.
Let me clarify again, because people are somehow reading what they want to read in my posts instead of what is written in my posts.
During the first part of day 1, I received a blue orb. That was everything I knew. I posted in thread that I'm confused and shadow responded that I shouldn't be and that it's ok.
At the end of tonight a vendor came and offered me three abilities in exchange for other abilities, but I couldn't do anything, because I don't have other abilities. The abilities offered where one shot BP, one shot tracker and two shot messenger maker.
Up until here this is fact. Exactly what happened with nothing in between. Now I will tell you my assumptions that are not true and are just my predictions for these things.
I thought the blue orb was a BP just because. I had no indication this might be true. After the vendor visited me, I assumed the blue orb was item that called the vendor. The vendor had a BP shot so I commented that the blue orb was a BP, but it actually cost something (abilities) instead of being free. In the meantime Proph commented and heavily implied that the vendor is not connected to the orb so my earlier comments were irrelevant. I hope it makes sense now Vaimes, cause you have a knack for believing you are right about my own words, when I'm telling you you're not.
Also @axel: It's not specified in the message, but I assume the vendor takes an entire ability forever. He came at the start of today/ end of this night so I couldn't give my night ability even if I had one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
@Vezok: do you think that whoever sent that vendor to you is town?
Not really. That's why I said my townread on Jackrito dropped a bit when I believed he gave me the vendor. But that made sense. Shadow didn't know I was a mason when he gifted me this.
But now that I know these aren't related, I think the inventor might be scum. It's pretty easy to deduce that confirmed masons don't have other abilities and there were a ton of people who claimed multiple semi-useless abilities.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I agree. That vendor should’ve gone to KCC, Silver or Fulcrum.
And chance is big that there’s a vig in town, so the BP gift can be scum’s way of protecting themselves.
@KCC: apparently LW is the reason we’re still in summer. If that enables another dayvig, scum will choose that over a traceable night kill any Day.
@KCC: apparently LW is the reason we’re still in summer. If that enables another dayvig, scum will choose that over a traceable night kill any Day.
But... if scum wanted to keep it summer, couldn't they just no kill? -I don't understand why you think they'd need a special ability like LWs, that it doesn't sound like he even knew what it did??
Well I'm still refusing to believe in a multi-use Summer day-kill for the scum, because that would be dumb. If it happens, I guess it happens, but I'm not going to spend time worrying about it.
I'm going back to looking at how my own wagon developed after Nacho blew up the one on KCC.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And @LW: You being so cryptic is not helping me at all. You have vague-sounding abilities and you don't know what they do. Is that about right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I will also say it is not my first instinct to declare the mysterious Vendor-Sendor as scum. In as much as they were offering a bullet-proof gift to a claimed Mason. The fact Vez couldn't take him up on it is mostly irrelevant as the vendor-sendor presumably wouldn't know that. I myself have been assuming that Vez had something else aside from the Mason thing. Maybe he doesn't, but it was not an unreasonable assumption.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I’m the vendor, and Axel is right, I thought I could receive passive abilities and that there was a chance vezok could give me something like a one-shot Masonizer. Seems silly in retrospect, but I really wanted to do the bare minimum to townfirm myself.
I softer/crumbed the role a few times. The items are real, and there are mechanical reasons for me not to elaborate on them, but believe me when I say I was tempted to play the game as if I were VT. The BP isn’t that bad, and the track very specifically would be perfect for vezok.
I’m claiming because my role is already out there and it’s not spectacular.
tom, I don’t think I’ll offer an explanation that will satisfy you. When I was here, I thought No Lynch was the way to go, and then I had to leave the game thread. I hate No Lunch as scum, and would only have voted there if literally all of the viable wagons were on my partners. The end.
I’m the vendor, and Axel is right, I thought I could receive passive abilities and that there was a chance vezok could give me something like a one-shot Masonizer. Seems silly in retrospect, but I really wanted to do the bare minimum to townfirm myself.
I softer/crumbed the role a few times. The items are real, and there are mechanical reasons for me not to elaborate on them, but believe me when I say I was tempted to play the game as if I were VT. The BP isn’t that bad, and the track very specifically would be perfect for vezok.
I’m claiming because my role is already out there and it’s not spectacular.
tom, I don’t think I’ll offer an explanation that will satisfy you. When I was here, I thought No Lynch was the way to go, and then I had to leave the game thread. I hate No Lunch as scum, and would only have voted there if literally all of the viable wagons were on my partners. The end.
I do not understand why you felt the need to claim this. I mean, I did not feel like the role was "out there." We just had the one data point. And scum would surely like to know who this person is/was.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Like working with the info I have, I think claiming is fine. It removes me as a question mark, sure, but as long as people keep quiet, it’s not like the scumteam will know who has what item.
If I get the chance to explain why, we can talk more about it then.
I talked about Vaimes already Here. I was not a fan of this vote.
Killjoy was the other player who voted me early, well before the CFD, and was also on me a for long time, but I have fewer issues with his vote than Vaimes's.
His negative read seems to start about #719, where he says he didn't like my PBPA on Mindreaver. "lots of information, little analysis." There is some irony here in that this is more or less why I scum-read Killjoy in two games running, for making what I thought were lengthy, but largely content-less posts - i.e. busy-work. I disagree with his interpretation of mine, but it's a take you can have.
We had a tiny back-and-forth on whether Mindreaver was a "legitimate" lynch or not, or just a lurker lynch. The thing about this is that Killjoy wasn't like, focused on me here. I'm just one of a number of people he's going back and forth with at the same time. And that's a good thing. I feel like, after Gemma, Killjoy may have been the most involved player with the thread. The one asking the most questions, and trying to solve the most. Also, I feel like scum more often, picks just one person at a time to press/go after. Killjoy is casting a wide net with a lot of his posts, and is not at all afraid of engagement. His whole presentment is just good.
Anyway, the Mindreaver thing is what leads to him bottom reading me by #958 and #959, which ends in his voting for me. There's some more irony in that, it seems like he's saying that because Mindreaver is such LHF, continuing to push there would NOT be good scum play, but he's scum-reading me for what he perceives as my continuing to do it. I.E. he says he thinks I'm bad scum. So I guess I'm offended he would think that? Not that I'm claiming to be great as scum when I draw it. It hasn't happened in a very long time.
I'll also address this later question I previously ignored, which was:
Axel: After my list I made a point where I gave a reason I thought Mind might be town. Does the theory make sense? Do you agree/disagree?
That reasoning was:
I've realized that if he's scum he's beyond the point of really having scum gaining town points for his lynch. It's like, completely stale, and continuing to push that way is just... not good scum play. It's kinda for that reason I'm kinda thinkig that slot is town. I feel like he's more likely town LHF than scum being sacrificed because people keep coming back to it. It's just weird behavior for a scum wagon.
And I'm not entirely sure I follow the reasoning.
Like, are you suggesting that, if Mindreaver were scum, his buddies would have not bothered to bus him, because he was playing so poorly/lurking so much, that they would realize that they wouldn't even have gotten any town-credit for bussing him? So why do it? And that in turn makes you think the slot is Town just playing bad? I am actually having trouble parsing the reasoning here. I think that Mindreaver-scum would have been a perfectly valid target for scum-buddies who wanted to bus. Because, as scum, he would not have been playing well. Up until he flat out disappeared, as I think I mentioned before, which made it somewhat less suspicious, and more of a null thing.
Killjoy unvotes me for a while engaging with other players. That's, mostly fine. Then makes a more aggressive push at #1525. Now he says he doesn't like my reaction to KCC's claim. He draws a parallel between my early posts expressing dislike for KCC's "I've got a scummy sounding role" claim, and my dislike of Mindreaver's lurking. Basically I'm going for things that look bad, and are easy to justify, as opposed to things that are actually bad. And, okay. I guess this is another take you can have. It's very wrong, but it does not appear maliciously wrong, if you know what I mean.
Then Nacho did his "I am counter-claiming KCC and she is 95% scum" post. And Killjoy was...guarded? #1646 gets a little angsty. Like, he really wants Nacho to confirm/commit to this because it will be a cluster*** if he's wrong. If this is a scum-fake-reaction, it's pretty well done. Still not knowing KCC's alignment muddies the waters here, but if we assume:
(1) she's Town, and Nacho Town, then scum would be presumably be gleeful about what was happening, and that's not this.
(2) If KCC scum, Nacho Town, then scum would presumably be thinking KCC was dead in the water at that point and be jumping ship? And that is also not this?
(3) KCC Town, Nacho scum, then this is a huge Nacho gambit - twice even. It's probably in Nacho's range to do, but the scum would also presumably be talking about it in their chat, and then deciding what kind of reaction they were going to have in the thread. I feel like, scum-buddies-with-Nacho would be more likely to "pick a side" here. Either take a "I believe Nacho" or a "I don't believe Nacho" stance, as opposed to waffle in the middle like Killjoy appears to be doing here.
(4) KCC scum, Nacho scum: I don't even know what's happening in this world. I guess Nacho would be attempting some kind of super-gambit, actually trying to "save" KCC by attacking her but then backing off. I do not think this is what was happening. I don't think Killjoy's post makes him a third scum-buddy in this hypothetical gambit anyway.
I feel like the post is just genuine. Especially the "why did it have to be setups" part at the end.
Killjoy was still on me after Nacho reversed himself, and didn't come off until my claim. His reason for coming off, that even though he still thought I was behaviorally scummy, the claim gets me a pass for today, is fine. I feel like scum could have attempted to push harder there, especially given the impending deadline.
He ends the day on a KCC vote as his best guess, and I find nothing suspicious about his reasoning. He's not claiming to be positive or anything, just that it's the best he's got given the options and deadline.
So, Killjoy is just Town here. Or really, really good scum.
The next batch are going to be the CFD people, which hopefully will be more interesting. But fair warning, please don't crucify me when I don't immediately identify all the scum who jumped on my wagon. I imagine I am likely to waffle a bit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Gonna react to wisp softing/whatever he's doing by saying Osie reviewed this and had a similar weird role in Phantom Tollbooth that just picked abilities but didn't know what they did. So the role itself is uh, plausible. If he's a wolf he probably knows what they do but otherwise... eh.
Vaimes' claim is... yeah. His use of it appears to be town siding but we only have his word that the items actually work lol.
Not sure I want to read too deeply into shadow giving Vezok a blue orb that has mysterious powers even Vezok doesn't know? Even if the orb has good powers, shadow would definitely town side with abilities as a wolf for towncred (that's how he won Horsemen iirc). What was the timing on that by the way? Before or after Vezok claimed mason? (Either Vezok or Proph answering is fine)
I'll probably compile the claims at some point, should be useful for keeping them straight if for no other reason.
I'm comfy with Dkings as town. (Hilarious flavor/posting synergy there)
LW and Tom are super in the townhouse for me.
I am generally surprised that there aren't... like... more people arguing either for or against a King? It's been pretty much up and down the line "Yeah Elect Vez" and I mean... the posts do have me pretty much on the townread side of things at this juncture, but it still seems WEIRD. This whole thing is buck wild tbh and I don't know how to make heads or tails of it (Scum would like the King hat for a free town kill but they don't necessarily want to pull the trigger due to obvious blowback, so now they'll likely scramble to put a town in the King hat and then manip them into killing another townie?)
I'll go ahead and say I have two votes in Spring/Summer just so we're clear on that.
Will try and get a better feel of the conversation later, but that's where I'm at right now I guess. Annoyed about NL but fine to keep going forward.
I’m assuming tranquility is indeed what caused no deaths last Night... but why ever choose that N0 over let’s say Prophecy???
Also, Vaimes needs to die.
and we need more votes on Vezok.
Well, I think it's a bit weird that you would choose something on "Night 0" and that it would then prevent deaths on the following Night.
And yes, I'm not in love with the idea that he just chooses a name and something happens and he doesn't know what it will be ahead of time, AND he doesn't know what it may or may not have done after the fact even. That's like, just messing with us.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Last Whisper is actually someone else who first voted me prior to the Chinese Fire Drill proper, at #1521. This is at a time when KCC is getting some votes (I believe) but before Nacho does his thing. In the post, however, LW doesn't say anything at all about me.
So now I have to go back digging through 200+ posts to see how/if this was justifiable for him. This is probably a hopeless exercise, as LW is just too schizophrenic for me to read most of the time.
The first time I see him saying anything about me is, in fact, fairly early at #216. Here he just says I don't "look great" (despite apparently agreeing with my dislike of Tom's gimmick) and that my "frustration" doesn't feel real. Given I was not actually frustrated, that might possibly have something to do with it? This does not appear to be a strong read.
At #648 LW gives a big "reads" post, and it appears I'm now a green lean for him. Says he went back through my iso and he's "fine" with it. Okay.
After that, nothing until #1239. Now he says he doesn't "hate" the idea of an Axel lynch (without elaboration) but is hesitant because he is scum-reading Vaimes, and Vaimes is voting there. This isn't great, in as much as I'm someone he's barely mentioned, and it could be a positioning post to set himself up for voting me later at an opportune moment. I cannot take the pulse of the thread as of that moment to see who/how many people might have been expressing suspicions of me at that point. It makes this post somewhat more reasonable if LW is commenting in response to some kind of overall movement/shift in my direction. Seems like he's still got Vaimes as a higher scum-lean.
At #1516 he comments on a Grape post - which was commenting on my opening post of the game - and says the post felt to him like I didn't care who I was voting. I can't actually tell here if LW thinks this is scummy.
But then he does switch from voting Vaimes to voting for me at #1521, without comment on me. It's more like he's just giving up on getting Vaimes lynched. He then will agree with Killjoy's reasoning @1525 for on his vote on me.
He does immediately jump off me and onto KCC after Nacho's claim, which is fine, but also what a scum trying to imitate Town-thought would likely do if both KCC and Nacho are Town. Then, when Nacho takes it back, he goes right back to me, so there's nothing too suspicious in that. Initially, he doesn't give me the benefit of the doubt after my claim, which is something. He says the fact my claim is relatively standard sounding is a reason to believe it's fake (maybe this jibes with his own role). But then later he unvotes and says if I am a Watcher he won't be voting me. That was when I was still at L-2, I think, AND after Fulcrum did his "counter-claim" so that's actually a fairly good look.
Ultimately, LW's style is very hard to read, his opinions shift rapidly, and he doesn't even attempt to justify or explain a lot of his votes, but I can't find anything too egregious here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If we get another daykill toDay, LW needs to die.
I’m actually thinking it might be a good idea to end this Day asap and hope whoever has that role hasn’t checked in yet.
We won’t be getting any real info now anyways with no one voting for lynch.
Elect Vezok
transitive property is a math term lol
If a=b, and a=c, then b=c
Im applying kj unalignments to you (and vice versa)
What does LW have to do with the daykill?
I almost want to accept his derp about it being a summer ability
@Axelrod
Thanks for taking the time to actually iso me
@Rhand
I saw tranquility and I thought it would be a good first dream, that's just how I think. And if some of my abilities are actually investigative abilities, I think they would be better for later use
@Axelrod
Thanks for taking the time to actually iso me
@Rhand
I saw tranquility and I thought it would be a good first dream, that's just how I think. And if some of my abilities are actually investigative abilities, I think they would be better for later use
I may be a bit worse at trying to figure out balance in this game than usual. Me and DV have differing opinions on role power level, and have argued in games about it.
But i do think he has the sort of mind that would want to balance this game not only town vs scum but throughout the game.
Whether that means approximately equal power in each season, or even a more complicated model like <info early, disruption late> or <more power later seasons to make up for unlikely double use>
Dkings with only summer power targeting but always on? Or is it different
Axel has some stuff but summer is best. More useful if hes still around second time summer rolls around because smaller pool to choose from
Kcc i think it was delay/rb/busdrive? Busdrive being the same night as a town watcher/bodyguard would make it pretty good at filtering a kill through different towny. (Guess i forgot this one in the ways DV might have balanced it. Scum in summer having specific tools for towns summer roles, etc for other seasons. If dkings is town that interacts with scum daykill theres some evidence dv DID think about that sort of thing)
But thats also her most important season being summer
If all three are town, and scum daykill has got to be a 4th person whos most important season is summer.
Which is almost a quarter of the game already
And im not sure how masons and maybe nacho fit in with maybe not caring what season it is at all?
So it already seems over represented with... like 10 people unclaimed
So it seems like
Good luck with that.
Kj why do you care more about post numbers than solving?
Lol Tom is shading me for fluffing.
I said you care more about post numbers which may be hyperbole but you do care a lot and its odd
I dont think ive in particular said anything about your alignment. Dont really think going for postnums is likely to give me a strong feeling in any direction.
But perhaps theres something in the why. And perhaps theres some meaning to you taking that question as some kind of direct attack that i could "fully believe"
What do you think if my read that you and rhand are the same alignment? Im not sure how well you were following my dope rhymes
Hey now that you can talk can you translate all your raps?
But. Why did I take this as a disparagement of my alignment? Because not caring about solving the game is a thing that scum do. Scum don't need to solve the game, they know who the scum are and who's town. That's what you're accusing me of, and you pretending that your not is ???. And pretending like my defensiveness comes out of nowhere is similarly ???.
I watched you and him go at eachother a bit and there was no caution no hedging no... sign from either of you youd have to deal with being wrong.
The whole back and forth felt like two people who think theyre right. Thus i conclude: two wrong villagers or two bussing partners.
And the feeling has held ever since
You didnt before.
You know i have no problem with *****posting and read into things in ways you dont expect. so why dont you answer why and see if i say something interesting about it instead of immediately raising your hackles
ya big ol goof
How did you envision that conversation going if I realized you were ***** talking immediately?
Grape/silver - actively w/v.
Dkings/axel - can imagine the conversation theyd have had about me. It didnt happen
Kj/vaimes - no postnum distancing
Rhand/vaimes - transitive property
Dkings prolly not with anyone on his wagon. 100% not nacho
Kcc prolly not with anyone on hers either but much lower confidence
Axel/fonti
Axel/grape
Nacho/kcc
Last/fonti
Last/(vaimes/silver)?
Think thats about it?
If we get another daykill toDay, LW needs to die.
I’m actually thinking it might be a good idea to end this Day asap and hope whoever has that role hasn’t checked in yet.
We won’t be getting any real info now anyways with no one voting for lynch.
Elect Vezok
During the first part of day 1, I received a blue orb. That was everything I knew. I posted in thread that I'm confused and shadow responded that I shouldn't be and that it's ok.
At the end of tonight a vendor came and offered me three abilities in exchange for other abilities, but I couldn't do anything, because I don't have other abilities. The abilities offered where one shot BP, one shot tracker and two shot messenger maker.
Up until here this is fact. Exactly what happened with nothing in between. Now I will tell you my assumptions that are not true and are just my predictions for these things.
I thought the blue orb was a BP just because. I had no indication this might be true. After the vendor visited me, I assumed the blue orb was item that called the vendor. The vendor had a BP shot so I commented that the blue orb was a BP, but it actually cost something (abilities) instead of being free. In the meantime Proph commented and heavily implied that the vendor is not connected to the orb so my earlier comments were irrelevant. I hope it makes sense now Vaimes, cause you have a knack for believing you are right about my own words, when I'm telling you you're not.
Also @axel: It's not specified in the message, but I assume the vendor takes an entire ability forever. He came at the start of today/ end of this night so I couldn't give my night ability even if I had one.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Why? I feel like I'm missing something here
Also, if this vendor is town, I'm a little annoyed, since I'm just sitting over here with a whole pile of garbage to sell
Not really. That's why I said my townread on Jackrito dropped a bit when I believed he gave me the vendor. But that made sense. Shadow didn't know I was a mason when he gifted me this.
But now that I know these aren't related, I think the inventor might be scum. It's pretty easy to deduce that confirmed masons don't have other abilities and there were a ton of people who claimed multiple semi-useless abilities.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
And chance is big that there’s a vig in town, so the BP gift can be scum’s way of protecting themselves.
@KCC: apparently LW is the reason we’re still in summer. If that enables another dayvig, scum will choose that over a traceable night kill any Day.
But still, there could be a vig that changes the season.
LW might be playing dumb?
I'm going back to looking at how my own wagon developed after Nacho blew up the one on KCC.
I’m the vendor, and Axel is right, I thought I could receive passive abilities and that there was a chance vezok could give me something like a one-shot Masonizer. Seems silly in retrospect, but I really wanted to do the bare minimum to townfirm myself.
I softer/crumbed the role a few times. The items are real, and there are mechanical reasons for me not to elaborate on them, but believe me when I say I was tempted to play the game as if I were VT. The BP isn’t that bad, and the track very specifically would be perfect for vezok.
I’m claiming because my role is already out there and it’s not spectacular.
tom, I don’t think I’ll offer an explanation that will satisfy you. When I was here, I thought No Lynch was the way to go, and then I had to leave the game thread. I hate No Lunch as scum, and would only have voted there if literally all of the viable wagons were on my partners. The end.
If I get the chance to explain why, we can talk more about it then.
I talked about Vaimes already Here. I was not a fan of this vote.
Killjoy was the other player who voted me early, well before the CFD, and was also on me a for long time, but I have fewer issues with his vote than Vaimes's.
His negative read seems to start about #719, where he says he didn't like my PBPA on Mindreaver. "lots of information, little analysis." There is some irony here in that this is more or less why I scum-read Killjoy in two games running, for making what I thought were lengthy, but largely content-less posts - i.e. busy-work. I disagree with his interpretation of mine, but it's a take you can have.
We had a tiny back-and-forth on whether Mindreaver was a "legitimate" lynch or not, or just a lurker lynch. The thing about this is that Killjoy wasn't like, focused on me here. I'm just one of a number of people he's going back and forth with at the same time. And that's a good thing. I feel like, after Gemma, Killjoy may have been the most involved player with the thread. The one asking the most questions, and trying to solve the most. Also, I feel like scum more often, picks just one person at a time to press/go after. Killjoy is casting a wide net with a lot of his posts, and is not at all afraid of engagement. His whole presentment is just good.
Anyway, the Mindreaver thing is what leads to him bottom reading me by #958 and #959, which ends in his voting for me. There's some more irony in that, it seems like he's saying that because Mindreaver is such LHF, continuing to push there would NOT be good scum play, but he's scum-reading me for what he perceives as my continuing to do it. I.E. he says he thinks I'm bad scum. So I guess I'm offended he would think that? Not that I'm claiming to be great as scum when I draw it. It hasn't happened in a very long time.
I'll also address this later question I previously ignored, which was: That reasoning was: And I'm not entirely sure I follow the reasoning.
Like, are you suggesting that, if Mindreaver were scum, his buddies would have not bothered to bus him, because he was playing so poorly/lurking so much, that they would realize that they wouldn't even have gotten any town-credit for bussing him? So why do it? And that in turn makes you think the slot is Town just playing bad? I am actually having trouble parsing the reasoning here. I think that Mindreaver-scum would have been a perfectly valid target for scum-buddies who wanted to bus. Because, as scum, he would not have been playing well. Up until he flat out disappeared, as I think I mentioned before, which made it somewhat less suspicious, and more of a null thing.
Killjoy unvotes me for a while engaging with other players. That's, mostly fine. Then makes a more aggressive push at #1525. Now he says he doesn't like my reaction to KCC's claim. He draws a parallel between my early posts expressing dislike for KCC's "I've got a scummy sounding role" claim, and my dislike of Mindreaver's lurking. Basically I'm going for things that look bad, and are easy to justify, as opposed to things that are actually bad. And, okay. I guess this is another take you can have. It's very wrong, but it does not appear maliciously wrong, if you know what I mean.
Then Nacho did his "I am counter-claiming KCC and she is 95% scum" post. And Killjoy was...guarded? #1646 gets a little angsty. Like, he really wants Nacho to confirm/commit to this because it will be a cluster*** if he's wrong. If this is a scum-fake-reaction, it's pretty well done. Still not knowing KCC's alignment muddies the waters here, but if we assume:
(1) she's Town, and Nacho Town, then scum would be presumably be gleeful about what was happening, and that's not this.
(2) If KCC scum, Nacho Town, then scum would presumably be thinking KCC was dead in the water at that point and be jumping ship? And that is also not this?
(3) KCC Town, Nacho scum, then this is a huge Nacho gambit - twice even. It's probably in Nacho's range to do, but the scum would also presumably be talking about it in their chat, and then deciding what kind of reaction they were going to have in the thread. I feel like, scum-buddies-with-Nacho would be more likely to "pick a side" here. Either take a "I believe Nacho" or a "I don't believe Nacho" stance, as opposed to waffle in the middle like Killjoy appears to be doing here.
(4) KCC scum, Nacho scum: I don't even know what's happening in this world. I guess Nacho would be attempting some kind of super-gambit, actually trying to "save" KCC by attacking her but then backing off. I do not think this is what was happening. I don't think Killjoy's post makes him a third scum-buddy in this hypothetical gambit anyway.
I feel like the post is just genuine. Especially the "why did it have to be setups" part at the end.
Killjoy was still on me after Nacho reversed himself, and didn't come off until my claim. His reason for coming off, that even though he still thought I was behaviorally scummy, the claim gets me a pass for today, is fine. I feel like scum could have attempted to push harder there, especially given the impending deadline.
He ends the day on a KCC vote as his best guess, and I find nothing suspicious about his reasoning. He's not claiming to be positive or anything, just that it's the best he's got given the options and deadline.
So, Killjoy is just Town here. Or really, really good scum.
The next batch are going to be the CFD people, which hopefully will be more interesting. But fair warning, please don't crucify me when I don't immediately identify all the scum who jumped on my wagon. I imagine I am likely to waffle a bit.
Vaimes' claim is... yeah. His use of it appears to be town siding but we only have his word that the items actually work lol.
Not sure I want to read too deeply into shadow giving Vezok a blue orb that has mysterious powers even Vezok doesn't know? Even if the orb has good powers, shadow would definitely town side with abilities as a wolf for towncred (that's how he won Horsemen iirc). What was the timing on that by the way? Before or after Vezok claimed mason? (Either Vezok or Proph answering is fine)
I'll probably compile the claims at some point, should be useful for keeping them straight if for no other reason.
I choose one each night
I have 6 Dreams to chose from:
Past
TranquilityN0Revenge
Friendship
LeadershipN1Prophecy
I can only really infer what they may do
LW and Tom are super in the townhouse for me.
I am generally surprised that there aren't... like... more people arguing either for or against a King? It's been pretty much up and down the line "Yeah Elect Vez" and I mean... the posts do have me pretty much on the townread side of things at this juncture, but it still seems WEIRD. This whole thing is buck wild tbh and I don't know how to make heads or tails of it (Scum would like the King hat for a free town kill but they don't necessarily want to pull the trigger due to obvious blowback, so now they'll likely scramble to put a town in the King hat and then manip them into killing another townie?)
I'll go ahead and say I have two votes in Spring/Summer just so we're clear on that.
Will try and get a better feel of the conversation later, but that's where I'm at right now I guess. Annoyed about NL but fine to keep going forward.
Also, Vaimes needs to die.
and we need more votes on Vezok.
I’m allowed to say that if I give too much detail about them, the mod will permanently take my powers away.
And yes, I'm not in love with the idea that he just chooses a name and something happens and he doesn't know what it will be ahead of time, AND he doesn't know what it may or may not have done after the fact even. That's like, just messing with us.
Cool role but not very efficient.
So now I have to go back digging through 200+ posts to see how/if this was justifiable for him. This is probably a hopeless exercise, as LW is just too schizophrenic for me to read most of the time.
The first time I see him saying anything about me is, in fact, fairly early at #216. Here he just says I don't "look great" (despite apparently agreeing with my dislike of Tom's gimmick) and that my "frustration" doesn't feel real. Given I was not actually frustrated, that might possibly have something to do with it? This does not appear to be a strong read.
At #648 LW gives a big "reads" post, and it appears I'm now a green lean for him. Says he went back through my iso and he's "fine" with it. Okay.
After that, nothing until #1239. Now he says he doesn't "hate" the idea of an Axel lynch (without elaboration) but is hesitant because he is scum-reading Vaimes, and Vaimes is voting there. This isn't great, in as much as I'm someone he's barely mentioned, and it could be a positioning post to set himself up for voting me later at an opportune moment. I cannot take the pulse of the thread as of that moment to see who/how many people might have been expressing suspicions of me at that point. It makes this post somewhat more reasonable if LW is commenting in response to some kind of overall movement/shift in my direction. Seems like he's still got Vaimes as a higher scum-lean.
At #1516 he comments on a Grape post - which was commenting on my opening post of the game - and says the post felt to him like I didn't care who I was voting. I can't actually tell here if LW thinks this is scummy.
But then he does switch from voting Vaimes to voting for me at #1521, without comment on me. It's more like he's just giving up on getting Vaimes lynched. He then will agree with Killjoy's reasoning @1525 for on his vote on me.
He does immediately jump off me and onto KCC after Nacho's claim, which is fine, but also what a scum trying to imitate Town-thought would likely do if both KCC and Nacho are Town. Then, when Nacho takes it back, he goes right back to me, so there's nothing too suspicious in that. Initially, he doesn't give me the benefit of the doubt after my claim, which is something. He says the fact my claim is relatively standard sounding is a reason to believe it's fake (maybe this jibes with his own role). But then later he unvotes and says if I am a Watcher he won't be voting me. That was when I was still at L-2, I think, AND after Fulcrum did his "counter-claim" so that's actually a fairly good look.
Ultimately, LW's style is very hard to read, his opinions shift rapidly, and he doesn't even attempt to justify or explain a lot of his votes, but I can't find anything too egregious here.
If a=b, and a=c, then b=c
Im applying kj unalignments to you (and vice versa)
What does LW have to do with the daykill?
I almost want to accept his derp about it being a summer ability
More bad setupgaming leading to more unnecessary claims
@Vaimes
@Axelrod
Thanks for taking the time to actually iso me
@Rhand
I saw tranquility and I thought it would be a good first dream, that's just how I think. And if some of my abilities are actually investigative abilities, I think they would be better for later use
@Vaimes
@Axelrod
Thanks for taking the time to actually iso me
@Rhand
I saw tranquility and I thought it would be a good first dream, that's just how I think. And if some of my abilities are actually investigative abilities, I think they would be better for later use
If vaimes is scum, why would he target Vez to get maybe a neighborize, when he could have easily justified targeting me to get some disruption?