Proph got roleblocked, which no wolf is roleblocking an unclaimed over anything we have claimed right now
so either he is bull*****ting, or he got roleblocked by a town roleblocker
I believe KCC said she has a roleblock as one of her abilities? but honestly from how she is talking to proph it doesnt look like she had anything to do with it. I do really recall how her abilities work again though or what seasons they are usuable in without isoing her
I say things on a spur sometimes my brain thinks they are true, whether they are not is not something I usually don't bother with, but I aint doing it with the malicious undertone if that's what you seem to believe
This I could understand. Though I wish you'd have just said that the first time
WHAT DO U WANT ME TO SAY, YOU KEEP SAYING I DIDNT TALK ABOUT YOU AT ALL, AND IVE BEEN BACK AND FOURTH ON YOU BECAUSE OF
1. YOUR INITIAL SOFT
2. AND HOW ******* SCUMMY YOUR CLAIM IS
Okay. I'm not getting where this is coming from. I'm one of the very few people who are even vaguely looking into you. And you're scumreading me. What are you feeling here?
holy jesus man, Im the one being malicious here? you want me to go find all the posts that mention your name? is this because I havent taken a stance based on your actual content?
If you want to dig up posts that I might have missed, you can, though I went through your iso at some point during our exchange Yesterday.
And yeah, it's partially because you hadn't taken a stance on my content and that feeling like a disconnect from "I've posted my feelings on you over and over!"
But annoyingly, Last might be scum, so one of those is probably wrong.
@Last: Even if they're masons, being town doesn't make them right. Assuming they should agree makes little sense. Are you actively doubting their masonship due to this lack of agreement?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But annoyingly, Last might be scum, so one of those is probably wrong.
@Last: Even if they're masons, being town doesn't make them right. Assuming they should agree makes little sense. Are you actively doubting their masonship due to this lack of agreement?
Im not a wolf, but fiddle with that thought if it helps your thought process I guess
and to the last question, its a yes and no, I literally just posted my thoughts on it, it is questionable, but there are other reasons why things like that may happen
and I have been one of the most active voices when it comes to the masons
and when did I say anything about them being right? what does that have to do with anything?
they dont have to agree, but they should be working together, and not be so disconnected
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Last:I really don't need your permission to scumread you. But whatever.
Them being right is relevant to whether or not they should blindly agree. If they don't agree, they might not seem connected.
For now, I'm gonna assume they're town, as there's no reason to really doubt them.
you are right you dont, but what is your reason for wolf reading me?
this is a game of mafia, you can never be right till someone dies, they dont need to blindly agree, but they should be working with each other
and when one person says they have someone as town, when they had them as a wolf, you would think they;d convey that thought to each other
and I dont necessarily agree that it means much of anything because of the reasons I already stated
Im not worrying about them today either, but I'm not going to play like they are confirmed town when they arent
I'm really out of the game and grape isn't much more into. I barely have coherent thoughts to post in thread, let alone stuff that we should discuss as masons. I'll try to re-read or something in weekend and talk a bit with grape, but I can't really promise anything.
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you should listen to the person who is dead that believed I was town, because when he says I have a problem with TMI as a wolf, he's not lying, he saw it first hand when we were wolves together
@KCC
I have no idea, thats why I keep saying I wish you were dead
and what am I feeling? annoyance
Like, obviously you're annoyed, but why? If you're scum who has poured all this energy into being top poster, only to be called out anyway for a small slip, then yeah. But, where would this be coming from as town? Me, a single person that you have as a scumread, is asking you questions? So what?
WHAT DO U WANT ME TO SAY, YOU KEEP SAYING I DIDNT TALK ABOUT YOU AT ALL, AND IVE BEEN BACK AND FOURTH ON YOU BECAUSE OF
1. YOUR INITIAL SOFT
2. AND HOW ******* SCUMMY YOUR CLAIM IS
If I'm scum, then obviously I wouldn't care what you say, I'd just be trying to shade you here. But that thought isn't anywhere from you in our exchange at all. That's simply not what this is. You're just really upset I'm not town reading you. -Which might make sense if you had me as a strong townread you were convinced must be misreading you, but that's not remotely where you have me.
holy jesus man, Im the one being malicious here? you want me to go find all the posts that mention your name? is this because I havent taken a stance based on your actual content? you dont radiate towniness anywhere, you dont deserve to be a town lean. Rhands says you dont resemble your mafia self based on the game he posted, I read your iso there, I see no difference
And even here, where you're trying to sound like you're considering me as possible scum, it's "you dont deserve to be a town lean."
I *AM* protecting you, but there is definitely nothing in my role PM about mod confirmation of my ability. I just double-checked to make sure I didn't miss it. Is this a specific Oberon/Titania interaction? Can you provide some more clarify on what you were told?
?????
What the heck is going on here? dkings protected Asta and then the mod just told Asta that dkings protected him, but dkings has no knowledge of that fact?
Quote from Wisp »
my reads have been shifted throughout this day phase because of evberyone elses thoughts, I really dont know where I stand, which is why instead of given full on reads, which requires me to reread, I have sorta been building teams based on what I believe and what others believe as the day goes on and new thoughts come up
Like I am quite certain that even given my paranioa Grape/Vezok are town, DK/Asta are of the same alignment, that Killjoy is town, I eventually want to do a deep dive of the thread, but idk when that is happening
Sure, these are your townreads. I'm assuming you believe I am scum based on you voting me, and it appears that you have an issue with KCC in this past page or so. Do you think we are buddies?
Quote from KCC »
Can you walk through why you made these choices?
N1, I wanted to confirm that your busdrive of Axel was legit. N2, I wanted to give the debilitating orb to one of my scumreads, since if dkings was mafia then I think there was a decent chance he would perform the kill in future Nights.
Quote from KCC »
Also, if I'm understanding Prophs claim, he's used it 3 times and it's done exactly nothing so far? Like, none of them do anything right now? That feels wrong
I mean, Nacho got lynched, and you roleblocked me, so
Quote from KCC »
Wait. What did you do last Night?
Misspoke; I tried to give him a green orb and got roleblocked.
N1, I wanted to confirm that your busdrive of Axel was legit.
Alright, I was more concerned about this before. But I guess the yellow ones ability would make sense that you might not care where exactly it ended up. If you're scum, that'd actually be pretty dangerous (though then you might not be entirely truthful about the ability anyway, so...)
Grapefruit: Not sure what I can tell you, it's my role.
Also I disagree with you about looking at Wisp. Think that dreaming god is designed to have positive and negative effects for the town, and evaluating his alignment based on how scummy or townie his dreaming god abilities are is kind of loose.
I mean that would be true if his role had shown any positive for town. So far it hasn't. It caused the King election (which is probably slightly scum favoured), presumably increased vote count requirement (definitely scum favoured), and an unknown ability on N0. I do not believe for a second that the N0 choice caused the no kill and assuming that is wildly unfounded.
And as for your role I believe the gems, I just don't know if I believe the abilities but *shrug*.
@Grape
You can either assume mafia chose to not use their kp n1, or someone stopped it, I wanna believe it was me, but there are some inconsistences with Gemma dying so idk
There is no reason to believe that you stopped the kill. Actually none.
KCC felt town in that rush at the EoD1 and I haven't much considered the slot sense. With Nacho flipping town I feel feel even better about the slot but haven't given it a ton of thought.
KJ feels very town to me. I don't have zero doubts, but I have very few.
Hey grape, could I ask you to expand a bit more on these two reads?
Also, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on Rhand when you've reread more.
I don't really want this to devolve into the same behavior that I hated in game of thrones mafia from myself, so I am going to try to answer your points calmly, since it's not fair to argue my alignment based off emotion
KCC, were you trying to bait someone into pretending that they had an orb or what?
Why would anyone ever false claim that? How would that possibly make sense?
I asked because no one should have a new one, and if someone does, it's a giant red flag
KCC - Sorry, this isn't clicking for me. We know now that the orb giving failed, but if someone had claimed to have received an orb, what conclusion would you have drawn? Like, did you think Proph was lying about giving out orbs or something, when Nacho confirmed that he had gotten an orb?
Also, can I ask for a general update on where you're at, besides your thoughts on Wisp?
There is no slip lmao, I don't get why I am being attacked for this, but I'll come back to this thread once I get home
This post itself is a slip. I'm the only person pushing this at all, if you think I'm scum then this isn't some big mystery, that would be why I'm doing it. But that very concept is so far off your radar because you KNOW I'm town.
Is there anyone who thinks KCC and Proph's claimed roles can both be town given tom's role?
Tom is (essentially) a one-shot fall night JK. KCC claimed a spring night roleblocker who can't stop factional abilities. And I haven't fully wrapped my head around Proph's claim, but it sounds like he sets up his roleblock in spring, but needs it to become fall, or to become spring again, to set up the other "half" of the roleblock.
Especially given that there are very few claimed roles that can stop nightkills, it doesn't really seem like too much to me?
I don't know your alignment tho? What is this slip? I'm starting to get the same manipulative behavior that Rhand used in GoT, I said something that he perceived as TMI and that was pretty much it, I wasn't able to explain my self so I just checked out of the game, and ended up freaking out in the thread. But I'm not going to answer
I'm trying to understand if you actually believe this or if you are maliciously trying to push this
If I had a clear case on you going either way, I would state it, I think you should die because it helps us read your train regardless of your alignment, you should've died day 1, but day 2 was up to vezok, and now day 3 we have to achieve a majority of 10 which is probably all the town left in this game, and you choose to poke at me, and then state later you know I'm not getting lynched, so what's the point of this?
The weirdest thing to me about Proph's claim is how situational/specific it seems. But that situationality is weird regardless of alignment. He can't do anything but be a loud visitor until the first fall (d3 if we hadn't NLed), and even after that, his claimed role relies on someone specific targeting someone else specific - like, I can't imagine his orb effects proccing outside of a manufactured scenario, or a late endgame situation with only a few people left. I guess the latter fits with the "setting up for later" nature of the role concept?
I also don't really understand why shadow would use one of his x day shots targeting Vezok, but obviously Proph can't answer that for us.
Actually, one way to confirm his role would be like, use one of his day shots toDay to give person A a yellow orb, toNight give person B an orange orb, and have A also target B toNight and see if B is told A's role name. The question about whether testing would do anything for us is - if we believe he's telling the truth about the effect of yellow orbs, would we then believe he's town? His other claimed effects seem pretty pro-town, so if that part is true, it seems to me that it's probably just a fiddly, "meant-to-endgame" town role...?
@Keldeo KJ has felt utterly agendaless, had lines of thought I can follow, and "felt" town in a tone read sense. I don't trust my tone reads for most people, but I trust them on KJ. I can try to prioritize an ISO dive and show my work but it doesn't feel too important.
As for KCC I'm basically barning Nacho when he rescinded his CC. The read is stale because it's based on a last ditch flurry from almost a month ago, but it was an impressive flurry and it's stuck in my mind.
Ohh that's right there is no reason to believe my n0 stopped the NK night 1
Good point Grape
I mean I know you're being sarcastic, but there really isn't. It's quite uncommon for abilities to be used on a night and have an impact the next night. There is also the fact that your other two abilities have had impacts on the directly following day phases rather than being a night ability at all.
None of that is conclusive but there is nothing from what we've seen of your abilities that suggests one of them being a town wide doc shot the following night is feasible. Plus the ability itself that you're hoping it was is just incredibly unlikely. A one shot auto success doc shot is really A: incredibly uncommon and B: powerful and unlike the other abilities we've seen.
The weirdest thing to me about Proph's claim is how situational/specific it seems. But that situationality is weird regardless of alignment. He can't do anything but be a loud visitor until the first fall (d3 if we hadn't NLed), and even after that, his claimed role relies on someone specific targeting someone else specific - like, I can't imagine his orb effects proccing outside of a manufactured scenario, or a late endgame situation with only a few people left. I guess the latter fits with the "setting up for later" nature of the role concept?
I also don't really understand why shadow would use one of his x day shots targeting Vezok, but obviously Proph can't answer that for us.
Actually, one way to confirm his role would be like, use one of his day shots toDay to give person A a yellow orb, toNight give person B an orange orb, and have A also target B toNight and see if B is told A's role name. The question about whether testing would do anything for us is - if we believe he's telling the truth about the effect of yellow orbs, would we then believe he's town? His other claimed effects seem pretty pro-town, so if that part is true, it seems to me that it's probably just a fiddly, "meant-to-endgame" town role...?
Proph, can someone hold multiple orbs?
So I have a few thoughts on why's for Vez. They are wide ranging and almost entirely wine but they all basically boil down to the idea that Vez is alive late in a lot of games and that Shadow would be aware of that.
As for Proph's role yeah, it's easily the fiddliest role I have run into if true claimed. Doesn't make it false. Doesn't make Proph scum. Just causing me to stop and think a lot. I also think I largely agree with you on the RB's not being too much of a conflict but [redacted] is bugging me.
As for KCC I'm basically barning Nacho when he rescinded his CC. The read is stale because it's based on a last ditch flurry from almost a month ago, but it was an impressive flurry and it's stuck in my mind.
Oh, then what do you mean by flurry? I thought you meant the final push to lynch her right before the deadline, but that doesn't jibe with this. Do you mean just the longer post that she made before Nacho rescinded?
Oh, then what do you mean by flurry? I thought you meant the final push to lynch her right before the deadline, but that doesn't jibe with this. Do you mean just the longer post that she made before Nacho rescinded?
Yeah. I'm calling it a flurry because there were a few good posts to my memory, but the big one was the main thing.
KCC - Sorry, this isn't clicking for me. We know now that the orb giving failed, but if someone had claimed to have received an orb, what conclusion would you have drawn? Like, did you think Proph was lying about giving out orbs or something, when Nacho confirmed that he had gotten an orb?
If someone got an orb anyway, that'd mean it was a factional ability -so Arsonist, or whatever other neutral altwincon bs.
-Proph targeting Axel seemed off. Like, if the orb was a positive thing, then knowing I was planning to protect axel with the bd and deflect to someone I thought was scum didn't make sense. Why risk handing a positive orb to scum? And if they were negative, then shadow hitting Vez early is bad, and pointing it at Axel when I could have been lying, or changed my mind, or been interfered with is bad too. Nacho's claim didn't sound like he had gotten something different from vez. But also scumproph letting me target his ability felt off too. My thinking was that he didn't actually care where the orb went, just that it got out there. And wanted some cred for testing me, possibly to avoid blame for where it landed? It seemed like decent odds of a neutral, so I took a shot at being able to cop him with my RB. At worst, I figured even if Proph was town, the orbs couldn't be too important since he basically tossed it at random by targeting axel
Also, can I ask for a general update on where you're at, besides your thoughts on Wisp?
Yeah, I kinda have a one track mind. I think Proph is more likely scum than not here. Too many RBs. The ability is awful and useless as claimed, way worse than my Winter which is already one of the worst abilities I've ever seen, like to the point of being nonsense. I think he probably tried to keep it close to his real ability, but also tried changing it to sound less scummy and just ended up with a ridiculous mess
The one thing giving me pause is again that he Targeted axel. Scum letting me choose a target is hard to wrap my head around, regardless of what the orbs might do
I have a pretty weak reason to think Proph is telling the truth, but I'm going to put it on the table
A while ago some people were talking about getting him to claim and, well, I dropped the name of his Spring ability in a pretty conspicuous way
It's called "Color of Spring"
It's weak because I don't have the text of the ability, so I don't know for sure that he isn't lying -- all I have is the name and that it can only be used during Spring
But I find it kind of hard to believe he missed it (particularly if he's a wolf) and he probably wouldn't risk altering his role when I might have known what it is, given how he got lunched in Arkham (botched his claim as a wolf and got quicklunched for it)
I don't know your alignment tho? What is this slip?
In our whole exchange, you've been irritated that I'm pressing you, and expressed confusion about why, but if I'm scum, then that would just be the answer. There wouldn't be a reason beyond that. But you're not approaching it that way at all, like that's even a possibility. It's just "what do you want me to say" and "I don't understand why you're attacking me" without any hint of the straight forward answer that maybe I could just scum. Which doesn't make sense if I'm already in your scum pile.
Like, why would this be annoyed confusion rather than confirmation?
I'm trying to understand if you actually believe this or if you are maliciously trying to push this
I'm not really seeing that though. And that's my go-to hunting method. Why would you be so annoyed at my questions if you're trying to read me that way?
If I had a clear case on you going either way, I would state it, I think you should die because it helps us read your train regardless of your alignment, you should've died day 1, but day 2 was up to vezok, and now day 3 we have to achieve a majority of 10 which is probably all the town left in this game, and you choose to poke at me, and then state later you know I'm not getting lynched, so what's the point of this?
It's one of the strongest leads I've seen this game, I'm not just going to ignore it because of Today's craziness, and what, wait for Tomorrow's different craziness?
Yeah, I kinda have a one track mind. I think Proph is more likely scum than not here. Too many RBs. The ability is awful and useless as claimed, way worse than my Winter which is already one of the worst abilities I've ever seen, like to the point of being nonsense. I think he probably tried to keep it close to his real ability, but also tried changing it to sound less scummy and just ended up with a ridiculous mess
The one thing giving me pause is again that he Targeted axel. Scum letting me choose a target is hard to wrap my head around, regardless of what the orbs might do
Hm, but your winter ability is also sort of setup-based/pretty specific, right? Why does that make you feel like his ability is less likely - I feel like it's mostly useless because it's so specific?
And ahh, I understand re: you targeting Proph, I hadn't realized how that part of your role applied.
--
Silver, that's interesting, I want to believe that argument. iirc you are townreading KCC as well, so then do you agree with my idea that it's not too many RBs, or do you think someone might still be lying? I feel like if Proph's spring ability is just "Color of Spring: give someone a green orb at night" or something, he'd be okay with lying, even if he picked up on that. I'm not sure where in his role the description of the orb effects would be.
Also, Arkham was almost two years ago, is there like, an outside reason you think he would find it especially memorable?
A silly read is that Killjoy is not partners with Proph for that line about how the color of spring is metallic, but I'm not sure whether a partner would know the role name or not, and even if a partner did know the role name it's still a really silly read.
If someone got an orb anyway, that'd mean it was a factional ability -so Arsonist, or whatever other neutral altwincon bs.
-Proph targeting Axel seemed off. Like, if the orb was a positive thing, then knowing I was planning to protect axel with the bd and deflect to someone I thought was scum didn't make sense. Why risk handing a positive orb to scum? And if they were negative, then shadow hitting Vez early is bad, and pointing it at Axel when I could have been lying, or changed my mind, or been interfered with is bad too. Nacho's claim didn't sound like he had gotten something different from vez. But also scumproph letting me target his ability felt off too. My thinking was that he didn't actually care where the orb went, just that it got out there. And wanted some cred for testing me, possibly to avoid blame for where it landed? It seemed like decent odds of a neutral, so I took a shot at being able to cop him with my RB. At worst, I figured even if Proph was town, the orbs couldn't be too important since he basically tossed it at random by targeting axel
Yeah, I kinda have a one track mind. I think Proph is more likely scum than not here. Too many RBs. The ability is awful and useless as claimed, way worse than my Winter which is already one of the worst abilities I've ever seen, like to the point of being nonsense. I think he probably tried to keep it close to his real ability, but also tried changing it to sound less scummy and just ended up with a ridiculous mess
The one thing giving me pause is again that he Targeted axel. Scum letting me choose a target is hard to wrap my head around, regardless of what the orbs might do
The one thing I think you're overlooking as a town probability is town!Proph deciding the abilities are useless due to how unlikely they are to trigger and he gets more utility from confirming the swap than what his role gives.
I'm not convinced this is the correct read, but it's plausible to me.
Silver, that's interesting, I want to believe that argument. iirc you are townreading KCC as well, so then do you agree with my idea that it's not too many RBs, or do you think someone might still be lying? I feel like if Proph's spring ability is just "Color of Spring: give someone a green orb at night" or something, he'd be okay with lying, even if he picked up on that. I'm not sure where in his role the description of the orb effects would be.
I guess a more general way to ask what I want to ask here is: do you think that he's town if he's telling the truth about his spring role/what the green orbs do?
In our whole exchange, you've been irritated that I'm pressing you, and expressed confusion about why, but if I'm scum, then that would just be the answer. There wouldn't be a reason beyond that. But you're not approaching it that way at all, like that's even a possibility. It's just "what do you want me to say" and "I don't understand why you're attacking me" without any hint of the straight forward answer that maybe I could just scum. Which doesn't make sense if I'm already in your scum pile.
Like, why would this be annoyed confusion rather than confirmation?
so you want me to take stance? why wouldnt it be a possibility? did I say it wasnt? I mean people push me all the time, it frustrates me regardless of my alignment, but I dont just scum read them anymore, and of course if they are town as well, then they are just as uninformed as me, so getting emotional doesnt help much
I'm not really seeing that though. And that's my go-to hunting method. Why would you be so annoyed at my questions if you're trying to read me that way?
I am mostly annoyed at myself, I aint trying to read you in anyway, like I said before, I think they are +town and +scum things coming from your slot, this push makes me feel a little worse on you, but I also recall this same behavior on you when you were town, so idk
It's one of the strongest leads I've seen this game, I'm not just going to ignore it because of Today's craziness, and what, wait for Tomorrow's different craziness?
but the chances of me getting lynched here based on volume alone, whether you like to believe that is a decent reason to not kill someone or not, is slim, given that we still have 0 wolf flips, its a bad place to push especially if I flip town, and I will flip town. Its bad because you are wasting our time if you are also town, but if you are wolf, its a decent attempt to look like you are wolf hunting.
How about fulcrum? I would like a thoughtful read on him, since you think we are aligned as wolves.
@Silver
what are your wolf reads again? and do you think that his claim being somewhat likely to be real, makes him town? Proph I mean
Tom is (essentially) a one-shot fall night JK. KCC claimed a spring night roleblocker who can't stop factional abilities. And I haven't fully wrapped my head around Proph's claim, but it sounds like he sets up his roleblock in spring, but needs it to become fall, or to become spring again, to set up the other "half" of the roleblock.
Especially given that there are very few claimed roles that can stop nightkills, it doesn't really seem like too much to me?
Okay, keldeo/Proph being w/v probably isn't a thing. With him both not pushing this dichotomy, and also soft defending one of the few other viable lynches.
Hm, but your winter ability is also sort of setup-based/pretty specific, right? Why does that make you feel like his ability is less likely - I feel like it's mostly useless because it's so specific?
Yeah, my Winter ability is narrow to the point of being basically useless. And my RB isn't great either. But then I also have two real abilities that actually do things. But Prophs whole entire role is more convoluted and unlikely than my single worst ability, which was already garbage? It doesn't feel right
The one thing I think you're overlooking as a town probability is town!Proph deciding the abilities are useless due to how unlikely they are to trigger and he gets more utility from confirming the swap than what his role gives.
No, I mean that's kinda exactly why I used the RB rather than hold it. I figured the only way he could be town was if the orbs weren't that important and not a real loss.
I agree that his claim is one of the few things that would make sense with his actions
I mean people push me all the time, it frustrates me regardless of my alignment, but I dont just scum read them anymore, and of course if they are town as well, then they are just as uninformed as me, so getting emotional doesnt help much
But you did get emotional. It just wasn't an angry counterattack, but IDK, just frustrated helplessness like you were at L-1 from just me talking to you.
but the chances of me getting lynched here based on volume alone, whether you like to believe that is a decent reason to not kill someone or not, is slim, given that we still have 0 wolf flips, its a bad place to push especially if I flip town, and I will flip town. Its bad because you are wasting our time if you are also town, but if you are wolf, its a decent attempt to look like you are wolf hunting.
I'm still not advocating your lynch Today, I know that's not happening. But that doesn't mean I can't try to pressure and read you while we figure out Today's consensus lynch. Also, umm... you're the one who asked me to case you, so...
this is just going to be back and forth between what you believe, and what I am saying
and several people in the thread have literally skimmed past us arguing
Killjoy said something, but clearly no one seems to care about us, from what I recall
like I said I don't really reread before I say things, so maybe I am completely wrong
Not Voting(7) - dkingsland967 , Grapefruit2, fulcrum, Axelrod, Rhand, KittyCupCake
for all the non-voters, why have you not placed a vote?
@Cross
like idk, if you are town, I'm not seeing it off what your produced
Mechanics wise, you are the 3rd person to say they are able to roleblock someone
so like there is a problem there
so to answer your question, you and KCC are very unlikely to be both wolves
But even without that. If it all worked out, you'd still just have 3 different color orbs out, none of which could interact or do anything yet?
Don't forget that I can give out an orb during the Day.
I think my role is designed to be much stronger if I can predict who will get to endgame and target people who won't be lynched/nightkilled.
Quote from Grapefruit21 »
I mean that would be true if his role had shown any positive for town. So far it hasn't. It caused the King election (which is probably slightly scum favoured), presumably increased vote count requirement (definitely scum favoured), and an unknown ability on N0. I do not believe for a second that the N0 choice caused the no kill and assuming that is wildly unfounded.
I think that the king election is neutral and the increased vote count requirement is definitely scum favored, but we've only seen two abilities thus far.
I just don't think that analyzing a dreaming god's abilities can tell you much of their alignment; it's better to just rely on behavior than to take a shortcut like that. And I don't think this is mafia Wisp.
Quote from Keldeo »
Proph, can someone hold multiple orbs?
I believe so; let me check with DV.
Quote from KCC »
Yeah, I kinda have a one track mind. I think Proph is more likely scum than not here. Too many RBs. The ability is awful and useless as claimed, way worse than my Winter which is already one of the worst abilities I've ever seen, like to the point of being nonsense. I think he probably tried to keep it close to his real ability, but also tried changing it to sound less scummy and just ended up with a ridiculous mess
Can't really say much here; again, I think my role's strength is in the lategame where I can potentially target a lot of the living players with orbs so players would be doc'd/roleblocked/get told ability names. Obviously can't do much now.
If you think I am mafia, KCC, why are you not voting me?
Quote from Keldeo »
Also, Arkham was almost two years ago, is there like, an outside reason you think he would find it especially memorable?
Not the person who you intended this question to be for, but I think Arkham was the last game I played on this site IIRC. Randed scum and got blown apart, definitely not one of my prouder games on the site.
Quote from Wisp »
@Cross
like idk, if you are town, I'm not seeing it off what your produced
Mechanics wise, you are the 3rd person to say they are able to roleblock someone
so like there is a problem there
so to answer your question, you and KCC are very unlikely to be both wolves
It's been like three/four days since the holidays ended? Give me some time; not like we have a whole lot of it admittedly since deadline's in five days
What is your read on Rhand? Last thing I checked you said this, does this still apply?
Quote from Wisp »
if anything, Rhand's push on Vaimes day 1 is +town for me, since I'm not getting the feeling he is maliciously trying to bury Vaimes
---
Will see if I can take a more in-depth look at Rhand over the weekend.
1. Silvercrys3467 - about null. Might be scum just by PoE
2. Lastwhisper - pretty solidly town. I played two game with Wisp scum and his play here does not remind me of those games at all.
3. shadowlancerxJackritoProphylaxis - ??? If I had a gun to my head I'd say town, but the role is so weird and his actions even more so.
4. Vaimes - probably scum. The fact that he isn't posting a lot kinda cements that read for me.
5. KittyCupCake - play makes me think town. the way she reacted to nacho's CC is still town.
6. vezokpiraka - Obv town
7. Rhand - Probably scum. His reads and his play have been very cautious. To me he seemed like he built justification for reads after deciding on them
8. dkingsland967 - Probably town. Bodyguard seems reasonable in this setup.
9. M1ndreaverKeldeo - Keldeo has been pretty townie, but I still have doubts about M1ndreaver. I'll probably explore this closer to LyLo.
10. Axelrod - Meh. I'm pretty null on axel. He wasn't scummy per se, but I haven't seen the brilliance of town Axel yet.
11. Killjoy - All his posts screamed town. I won't be terribly surprised if he is actually great scum, but that's a low possibility.
13. SlothfulGrapefruit21 - mason buddy.
16. fulcrum - No idea to be honest. The way she claimed makes me think town, but behaviour makes me shrug.
17. Asta - Probably town double-voter.
So I'm at Rhand/Vaimes/{Keldeo/Axel/silver}. I'm probably wrong somewhere, but there's so many people I think are town.
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I think that the king election is neutral and the increased vote count requirement is definitely scum favored, but we've only seen two abilities thus far.
I just don't think that analyzing a dreaming god's abilities can tell you much of their alignment; it's better to just rely on behavior than to take a shortcut like that. And I don't think this is mafia Wisp.
The two abilities thing is actually part of my point. He's used three abilities and we've only seen the results of two of them. The paranoid part of me thinks the third did something we haven't seen (and that's why Wisp was on the "maybe I blocked the kill" idea to cover for the missing ability).
As for his behvaior, I want to listen to Tom, because he's town, and smart, but I keep coming back to the idea that Wisp is making a ton of noise but has no traction anywhere. The only two pushes I can associate with him are Vaimes, Proph, and KCC. And he's not really pushing KCC. I may be missing one from the early game but I can't remember it.
I'm going to drop it for now because I'm quite sure I'm in a tunnel and enough smart townies have told me I'm wrong but I just can't stop thinking about it.
@Wisp because I don't love* any of the wagons but I don't have anything I feel confident enough going to bat for right now. And given my status in this game I don't want to give "cover" to wagons by putting nearly confirmed town on it and making it easier to sheep. Despite D1 I'm confident in our ability to do something at the last minute.
* I have no issues with the Rhand wagon, it's just every time I try to ISO him I get bored and think it's utterly unremarkable and want him to post new things.
so either he is bull*****ting, or he got roleblocked by a town roleblocker
I believe KCC said she has a roleblock as one of her abilities? but honestly from how she is talking to proph it doesnt look like she had anything to do with it. I do really recall how her abilities work again though or what seasons they are usuable in without isoing her
That you'd been talking about me over and over, when your posts about me were just 2 naked votes and a single sentence micro read.
This I could understand. Though I wish you'd have just said that the first time
You're not my focus. I know you're not Today's lynch ever. It's just one of the few things I've seen worth poking
Okay. I'm not getting where this is coming from. I'm one of the very few people who are even vaguely looking into you. And you're scumreading me. What are you feeling here?
If you want to dig up posts that I might have missed, you can, though I went through your iso at some point during our exchange Yesterday.
And yeah, it's partially because you hadn't taken a stance on my content and that feeling like a disconnect from "I've posted my feelings on you over and over!"
Also, again, yes, I blocked Proph
But annoyingly, Last might be scum, so one of those is probably wrong.
@Last: Even if they're masons, being town doesn't make them right. Assuming they should agree makes little sense. Are you actively doubting their masonship due to this lack of agreement?
and to the last question, its a yes and no, I literally just posted my thoughts on it, it is questionable, but there are other reasons why things like that may happen
and I have been one of the most active voices when it comes to the masons
and when did I say anything about them being right? what does that have to do with anything?
they dont have to agree, but they should be working together, and not be so disconnected
I have no idea, thats why I keep saying I wish you were dead
and what am I feeling? annoyance
Them being right is relevant to whether or not they should blindly agree. If they don't agree, they might not seem connected.
For now, I'm gonna assume they're town, as there's no reason to really doubt them.
this is a game of mafia, you can never be right till someone dies, they dont need to blindly agree, but they should be working with each other
and when one person says they have someone as town, when they had them as a wolf, you would think they;d convey that thought to each other
and I dont necessarily agree that it means much of anything because of the reasons I already stated
Im not worrying about them today either, but I'm not going to play like they are confirmed town when they arent
I think it's weird that Rhand's calling me town and then immediatelty voting for Vaimes.
Also think Proph, Tom and KCC all have roleblocking stuff means there's scum there probably.
Kind of liked Axel admitting he wrote the thing to post here later. Idk.
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Like, obviously you're annoyed, but why? If you're scum who has poured all this energy into being top poster, only to be called out anyway for a small slip, then yeah. But, where would this be coming from as town? Me, a single person that you have as a scumread, is asking you questions? So what?
If I'm scum, then obviously I wouldn't care what you say, I'd just be trying to shade you here. But that thought isn't anywhere from you in our exchange at all. That's simply not what this is. You're just really upset I'm not town reading you. -Which might make sense if you had me as a strong townread you were convinced must be misreading you, but that's not remotely where you have me.
This is straight TMI
And even here, where you're trying to sound like you're considering me as possible scum, it's "you dont deserve to be a town lean."
What the heck is going on here? dkings protected Asta and then the mod just told Asta that dkings protected him, but dkings has no knowledge of that fact?
Sure, these are your townreads. I'm assuming you believe I am scum based on you voting me, and it appears that you have an issue with KCC in this past page or so. Do you think we are buddies?
N1, I wanted to confirm that your busdrive of Axel was legit. N2, I wanted to give the debilitating orb to one of my scumreads, since if dkings was mafia then I think there was a decent chance he would perform the kill in future Nights.
I mean, Nacho got lynched, and you roleblocked me, so
Misspoke; I tried to give him a green orb and got roleblocked.
Alright, I was more concerned about this before. But I guess the yellow ones ability would make sense that you might not care where exactly it ended up. If you're scum, that'd actually be pretty dangerous (though then you might not be entirely truthful about the ability anyway, so...)
But even without that. If it all worked out, you'd still just have 3 different color orbs out, none of which could interact or do anything yet?
I mean that would be true if his role had shown any positive for town. So far it hasn't. It caused the King election (which is probably slightly scum favoured), presumably increased vote count requirement (definitely scum favoured), and an unknown ability on N0. I do not believe for a second that the N0 choice caused the no kill and assuming that is wildly unfounded.
And as for your role I believe the gems, I just don't know if I believe the abilities but *shrug*.
There is no reason to believe that you stopped the kill. Actually none.
Also, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on Rhand when you've reread more.
Good point Grape
Is there anyone who thinks KCC and Proph's claimed roles can both be town given tom's role?
Also, can I ask for a general update on where you're at, besides your thoughts on Wisp?
Especially given that there are very few claimed roles that can stop nightkills, it doesn't really seem like too much to me?
I'm trying to understand if you actually believe this or if you are maliciously trying to push this
If I had a clear case on you going either way, I would state it, I think you should die because it helps us read your train regardless of your alignment, you should've died day 1, but day 2 was up to vezok, and now day 3 we have to achieve a majority of 10 which is probably all the town left in this game, and you choose to poke at me, and then state later you know I'm not getting lynched, so what's the point of this?
I also don't really understand why shadow would use one of his x day shots targeting Vezok, but obviously Proph can't answer that for us.
Actually, one way to confirm his role would be like, use one of his day shots toDay to give person A a yellow orb, toNight give person B an orange orb, and have A also target B toNight and see if B is told A's role name. The question about whether testing would do anything for us is - if we believe he's telling the truth about the effect of yellow orbs, would we then believe he's town? His other claimed effects seem pretty pro-town, so if that part is true, it seems to me that it's probably just a fiddly, "meant-to-endgame" town role...?
Proph, can someone hold multiple orbs?
As for KCC I'm basically barning Nacho when he rescinded his CC. The read is stale because it's based on a last ditch flurry from almost a month ago, but it was an impressive flurry and it's stuck in my mind.
I mean I know you're being sarcastic, but there really isn't. It's quite uncommon for abilities to be used on a night and have an impact the next night. There is also the fact that your other two abilities have had impacts on the directly following day phases rather than being a night ability at all.
None of that is conclusive but there is nothing from what we've seen of your abilities that suggests one of them being a town wide doc shot the following night is feasible. Plus the ability itself that you're hoping it was is just incredibly unlikely. A one shot auto success doc shot is really A: incredibly uncommon and B: powerful and unlike the other abilities we've seen.
So I have a few thoughts on why's for Vez. They are wide ranging and almost entirely wine but they all basically boil down to the idea that Vez is alive late in a lot of games and that Shadow would be aware of that.
As for Proph's role yeah, it's easily the fiddliest role I have run into if true claimed. Doesn't make it false. Doesn't make Proph scum. Just causing me to stop and think a lot. I also think I largely agree with you on the RB's not being too much of a conflict but [redacted] is bugging me.
Don't know how that auto corrected to answer
Yeah. I'm calling it a flurry because there were a few good posts to my memory, but the big one was the main thing.
-Proph targeting Axel seemed off. Like, if the orb was a positive thing, then knowing I was planning to protect axel with the bd and deflect to someone I thought was scum didn't make sense. Why risk handing a positive orb to scum? And if they were negative, then shadow hitting Vez early is bad, and pointing it at Axel when I could have been lying, or changed my mind, or been interfered with is bad too. Nacho's claim didn't sound like he had gotten something different from vez. But also scumproph letting me target his ability felt off too. My thinking was that he didn't actually care where the orb went, just that it got out there. And wanted some cred for testing me, possibly to avoid blame for where it landed? It seemed like decent odds of a neutral, so I took a shot at being able to cop him with my RB. At worst, I figured even if Proph was town, the orbs couldn't be too important since he basically tossed it at random by targeting axel
Yeah, I kinda have a one track mind. I think Proph is more likely scum than not here. Too many RBs. The ability is awful and useless as claimed, way worse than my Winter which is already one of the worst abilities I've ever seen, like to the point of being nonsense. I think he probably tried to keep it close to his real ability, but also tried changing it to sound less scummy and just ended up with a ridiculous mess
The one thing giving me pause is again that he Targeted axel. Scum letting me choose a target is hard to wrap my head around, regardless of what the orbs might do
A while ago some people were talking about getting him to claim and, well, I dropped the name of his Spring ability in a pretty conspicuous way
It's called "Color of Spring"
It's weak because I don't have the text of the ability, so I don't know for sure that he isn't lying -- all I have is the name and that it can only be used during Spring
But I find it kind of hard to believe he missed it (particularly if he's a wolf) and he probably wouldn't risk altering his role when I might have known what it is, given how he got lunched in Arkham (botched his claim as a wolf and got quicklunched for it)
Like, why would this be annoyed confusion rather than confirmation?
I'm not really seeing that though. And that's my go-to hunting method. Why would you be so annoyed at my questions if you're trying to read me that way?
It's one of the strongest leads I've seen this game, I'm not just going to ignore it because of Today's craziness, and what, wait for Tomorrow's different craziness?
And ahh, I understand re: you targeting Proph, I hadn't realized how that part of your role applied.
--
Silver, that's interesting, I want to believe that argument. iirc you are townreading KCC as well, so then do you agree with my idea that it's not too many RBs, or do you think someone might still be lying? I feel like if Proph's spring ability is just "Color of Spring: give someone a green orb at night" or something, he'd be okay with lying, even if he picked up on that. I'm not sure where in his role the description of the orb effects would be.
Also, Arkham was almost two years ago, is there like, an outside reason you think he would find it especially memorable?
The one thing I think you're overlooking as a town probability is town!Proph deciding the abilities are useless due to how unlikely they are to trigger and he gets more utility from confirming the swap than what his role gives.
I'm not convinced this is the correct read, but it's plausible to me.
so you want me to take stance? why wouldnt it be a possibility? did I say it wasnt? I mean people push me all the time, it frustrates me regardless of my alignment, but I dont just scum read them anymore, and of course if they are town as well, then they are just as uninformed as me, so getting emotional doesnt help much
I am mostly annoyed at myself, I aint trying to read you in anyway, like I said before, I think they are +town and +scum things coming from your slot, this push makes me feel a little worse on you, but I also recall this same behavior on you when you were town, so idk
but the chances of me getting lynched here based on volume alone, whether you like to believe that is a decent reason to not kill someone or not, is slim, given that we still have 0 wolf flips, its a bad place to push especially if I flip town, and I will flip town. Its bad because you are wasting our time if you are also town, but if you are wolf, its a decent attempt to look like you are wolf hunting.
How about fulcrum? I would like a thoughtful read on him, since you think we are aligned as wolves.
@Silver
what are your wolf reads again? and do you think that his claim being somewhat likely to be real, makes him town? Proph I mean
Okay, keldeo/Proph being w/v probably isn't a thing. With him both not pushing this dichotomy, and also soft defending one of the few other viable lynches.
Yeah, my Winter ability is narrow to the point of being basically useless. And my RB isn't great either. But then I also have two real abilities that actually do things. But Prophs whole entire role is more convoluted and unlikely than my single worst ability, which was already garbage? It doesn't feel right No, I mean that's kinda exactly why I used the RB rather than hold it. I figured the only way he could be town was if the orbs weren't that important and not a real loss.
I agree that his claim is one of the few things that would make sense with his actions
But you did get emotional. It just wasn't an angry counterattack, but IDK, just frustrated helplessness like you were at L-1 from just me talking to you.
I'm still not advocating your lynch Today, I know that's not happening. But that doesn't mean I can't try to pressure and read you while we figure out Today's consensus lynch. Also, umm... you're the one who asked me to case you, so...
And that is still not a thing I think. fulcrum is on my reread list though
whether emotions you think I should be feeling at any given moment, just dont
I mean you aren't lynching my partners here either if I am a wolf since I'm not going to let you lol
still not a thing?
and several people in the thread have literally skimmed past us arguing
Killjoy said something, but clearly no one seems to care about us, from what I recall
like I said I don't really reread before I say things, so maybe I am completely wrong
for all the non-voters, why have you not placed a vote?
@Cross
like idk, if you are town, I'm not seeing it off what your produced
Mechanics wise, you are the 3rd person to say they are able to roleblock someone
so like there is a problem there
so to answer your question, you and KCC are very unlikely to be both wolves
Also there is your reaction to the whole Asta/DK thing and I really don't like it, it comes off as fake
I think my role is designed to be much stronger if I can predict who will get to endgame and target people who won't be lynched/nightkilled.
I think that the king election is neutral and the increased vote count requirement is definitely scum favored, but we've only seen two abilities thus far.
I just don't think that analyzing a dreaming god's abilities can tell you much of their alignment; it's better to just rely on behavior than to take a shortcut like that. And I don't think this is mafia Wisp.
I believe so; let me check with DV.
Can't really say much here; again, I think my role's strength is in the lategame where I can potentially target a lot of the living players with orbs so players would be doc'd/roleblocked/get told ability names. Obviously can't do much now.
If you think I am mafia, KCC, why are you not voting me?
Not the person who you intended this question to be for, but I think Arkham was the last game I played on this site IIRC. Randed scum and got blown apart, definitely not one of my prouder games on the site.
It's been like three/four days since the holidays ended? Give me some time; not like we have a whole lot of it admittedly since deadline's in five days
What is your read on Rhand? Last thing I checked you said this, does this still apply?
---
Will see if I can take a more in-depth look at Rhand over the weekend.
1. Silvercrys3467 - about null. Might be scum just by PoE
2. Lastwhisper - pretty solidly town. I played two game with Wisp scum and his play here does not remind me of those games at all.
3. shadowlancerxJackritoProphylaxis - ??? If I had a gun to my head I'd say town, but the role is so weird and his actions even more so.
4. Vaimes - probably scum. The fact that he isn't posting a lot kinda cements that read for me.
5. KittyCupCake - play makes me think town. the way she reacted to nacho's CC is still town.
6. vezokpiraka - Obv town
7. Rhand - Probably scum. His reads and his play have been very cautious. To me he seemed like he built justification for reads after deciding on them
8. dkingsland967 - Probably town. Bodyguard seems reasonable in this setup.
9. M1ndreaverKeldeo - Keldeo has been pretty townie, but I still have doubts about M1ndreaver. I'll probably explore this closer to LyLo.
10. Axelrod - Meh. I'm pretty null on axel. He wasn't scummy per se, but I haven't seen the brilliance of town Axel yet.
11. Killjoy - All his posts screamed town. I won't be terribly surprised if he is actually great scum, but that's a low possibility.
13. SlothfulGrapefruit21 - mason buddy.
16. fulcrum - No idea to be honest. The way she claimed makes me think town, but behaviour makes me shrug.
17. Asta - Probably town double-voter.
So I'm at Rhand/Vaimes/{Keldeo/Axel/silver}. I'm probably wrong somewhere, but there's so many people I think are town.
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The two abilities thing is actually part of my point. He's used three abilities and we've only seen the results of two of them. The paranoid part of me thinks the third did something we haven't seen (and that's why Wisp was on the "maybe I blocked the kill" idea to cover for the missing ability).
As for his behvaior, I want to listen to Tom, because he's town, and smart, but I keep coming back to the idea that Wisp is making a ton of noise but has no traction anywhere. The only two pushes I can associate with him are Vaimes, Proph, and KCC. And he's not really pushing KCC. I may be missing one from the early game but I can't remember it.
I'm going to drop it for now because I'm quite sure I'm in a tunnel and enough smart townies have told me I'm wrong but I just can't stop thinking about it.
@Wisp because I don't love* any of the wagons but I don't have anything I feel confident enough going to bat for right now. And given my status in this game I don't want to give "cover" to wagons by putting nearly confirmed town on it and making it easier to sheep. Despite D1 I'm confident in our ability to do something at the last minute.
* I have no issues with the Rhand wagon, it's just every time I try to ISO him I get bored and think it's utterly unremarkable and want him to post new things.
Also, what changed for you on KCC, and why do you think Last is scummy?