Ok not knowing what a blue orb does its hard to speculate too much. Shadow softing only to his target seems moderately towny if im reading that right, but meh.
Vaimes being a salesman version of giftgiver is meh. His use of it seems lightly scum to me?
Like hes ingratiating himself to vez rather than trying to upgrade some of the crappier claimed abilities?
Like if he thinks any of axel/fonti/kcc are town they all have some stinkers iirc
For last...
Dreaming god is what i thought of when fonti claimed. Only she was a crappy oracle CCing a watcher for some reason?
Dreaming god is definitely a thing that exists that could be in this game. It does seem like thats where a season change ability would be though so thats a bit weird with nacho? But last is probably true claiming regardless of his alignment. As silver said probably the only difference is if hes scum he knows <just a bit> more lol. And hes probably town separate from that hes not paralyzed by TMI and i think he actually didnt understand seasonal abilities?
@Axelrod
Thanks for taking the time to actually iso me
@Rhand
I saw tranquility and I thought it would be a good first dream, that's just how I think. And if some of my abilities are actually investigative abilities, I think they would be better for later use
tom, I don’t think I’ll offer an explanation that will satisfy you. When I was here, I thought No Lynch was the way to go, and then I had to leave the game thread. I hate No Lunch as scum, and would only have voted there if literally all of the viable wagons were on my partners. The end.
why was no lynch the way to go?
This should be a simple question.
Because a lot of people were making noise about summer abilities. I wasn’t paying all that much attention to the specifics, I know Nacho and maybe others wanted Axel and KCC to coordinate.
Gemma dying just mean we weren’t going into N1 with no flips. Not relevant for vote count analysis, if that’s what you’re asking.
What do you mean by upgrading crappy abilities? I don’t upgrade anything when I sell my items, and my items aren’t that much better than the claimed roles.
0 scum benefit in targeting vezok. Scum can’t possibly become a Mason.
Because a lot of people were making noise about summer abilities. I wasn’t paying all that much attention to the specifics, I know Nacho and maybe others wanted Axel and KCC to coordinate.
Gemma dying just mean we weren’t going into N1 with no flips. Not relevant for vote count analysis, if that’s what you’re asking.
What do you mean by upgrading crappy abilities? I don’t upgrade anything when I sell my items, and my items aren’t that much better than the claimed roles.
0 scum benefit in targeting vezok. Scum can’t possibly become a Mason.
theres also zero town benefit to targeting vezok, or to claiming it today, so lets not go there friend
So you just saw people saying no lynch was a good idea and werent curious why?
Because theres abilities every season. Stopping at one really doesnt make aense with ~any~ thought put in and i think of you as thoughtful...
What benefit are you getting from flips that an obvtown gemma flip is the same as a poe one?
Thats the most incromprehinsible part to me. Like... theres less need to lynch because scum already killed someone? Wat?
Help me out here. The whole concept of an intentional no lynch yesterday with the explanations given has got me respecting whichever of yall are town less as mafia players. I want everyone that thought it was a good idea, to be scum. I know thats not true but
Like
How am i gonna think its 0?
Wrong. Chances were low that I could be a Mason, but I decided to chance it anyways. Claiming, sure, maybe wasn't necessary.
I know that Nacho claimed he changed seasons to give KCC an ability, and that he wanted her and Axel to coordinate or something. No, I didn't get any more detail than that, but given the alternative was voting someone I wasn't sure was scum (dk, KCC), I chose No Lunch. I would have moved my vote if I had been able to keep an eye on the thread, but everyone was posting way too much for me, and my attention was very divided.
The Gemma flip isn't very relevant. I just think that, having a flip at all, makes No Lunching a less horrible option than it otherwise would be. I have said the exact same thing in other games, there was one specific case where we were about to No Lunch after a Daykill had happened or something.
Maybe calm down and have a snack. We're not in the worst-case scenario, just in a mildly annoying one. A re-do of Day 1 with only one less villager instead of two, or three, and some more info floating around.
I think im pretty calm?
I dont particularly enjoy having to ask multiple times to get that fairly simple answer.
Id still like you to explain that logic and perhaps show me where you said it before because i strongly believe the daykill makes no lynching a far more horrible option than usual, which is already fairly horrible...
Also if i accept you didnt think about it then, can you think about it now? He wanted to no lynch to use claimed abilities instead of... yknow... the abilities of every other season wed be delaying because of that. How strong would those abilities have to be to make that worthwhile? How about a watch and a busdrive?
Vaimes if you break it down you used your ability for towncred regardless of alignment. You may get some takers on giving you that town cred but im gonna try to talk them out of it
If vaimes is scum, why would he target Vez to get maybe a neighborize, when he could have easily justified targeting me to get some disruption?
If the ability would’ve worked on Vez, he would probably have joined the chat with whoever the partner is and outed him to scum.
And he would’ve closed mason chat, which is pretty big.
And if he knew he can’t take a passive, he didn’t give a BP vest to someone he would maybe have to kill later.
I see only mafia gain and no town gain in targeting Vez.
If it really were a simple answer, you'd be satisfied with what I've said. I feel like I'm repeating myself, and I don't think giving more details about those answers are going to make you happy.
I'm not going to explain the logic because I wasn't really thinking too deeply about it. "Okay, we had at least one death, people want to do summer junk, I don't like any of the lunch options - No Lunch it is." Was my entire thought process. Again, I probably would have moved to KCC if I were around, but I couldn't. And it's not like my vote would have made a difference - two more were needed for KCC.
You know I suck at evaluating Night actions. I don't think about things like that unless I'm scum, and even then I usually **** it up. I didn't fully understand what Nacho wanted KCC and Axel to do, but because of that and dk being a summer protective role AND me not wanting to lunch people I wasn't scumreading, even if it was beneficial, I just went with it.
Vaimes if you break it down you used your ability for towncred regardless of alignment.
Oh that's exactly what I did. My heart isn't in this game, I know it and everyone knows it. It's not alignment-indicative, and I saw a longshot easy way to townfirm this slot without having to be poked and prodded at until I get pissed off.
There was the added benefit of vezok getting some use out of my abilities, had it worked.
If the ability would’ve worked on Vez, he would probably have joined the chat with whoever the partner is and outed him to scum.
And he would’ve closed mason chat, which is pretty big.
And if he knew he can’t take a passive, he didn’t give a BP vest to someone he would maybe have to kill later.
I see only mafia gain and no town gain in targeting Vez.
lmaooo, what game/mechanics are you basing this on? I would think it's 100% impossible for scum to break into, or even LOOK into, a Mason chat.
The mod said that I can take passive abilities, as long as they have an ability name. I'm guessing vezok's Mason-ness is like, inherent without being a passive ability? Don't know how to word that.
Well, I thought you were hoping that Vez would have "something" to trade for the BP vest, but not "Mason-ness." Which is kind of a silly thing to expect.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well, I thought you were hoping that Vez would have "something" to trade for the BP vest, but not "Mason-ness." Which is kind of a silly thing to expect.
Nacho- little of the two above. Making his ability not a waste, coordinating summer actions. Townread kcc. Did vote dkings
Grape- townread kcc, stayed on dk
Kcc/rhand- voted their top scumread nacho i guess?
<everyone on kcc>, trying to lynch someone they scumread
Also i have zero scumreads on kcc wagon. Which is almost definitely feeding into my thoughts here
Which leaves:
Vaimes:
>didnt think about it?
>was townreading both wagons, but actually voted no lynch over just putting vote on a scumread
>Statement about gemma dying that makes me think hes scum just trying to get through the day with a dead towny that he cant/wont explain
Fonti:
>acknowledged how bad no lynching is, was scumreading both wagons
>moved vote from bigger one to smaller one and dipped
Keldeo:
>acknowledged no lynching was bad. Scumreading kcc not dkings
>actually decided no lynch was better and unvoted. Did not explain, hasnt showed up today to do something with it
In Modern Mafia Vaimes was a vig that shot KCC who was being really town instead of actual scum. He even had to target the same person twice to kill them. Vaimes doing weird stuff with his actions is right on par with what I'd believe from town him.
It's still a bad action, but the explanations are reasonable.
tom makes very good cases for Fonti and Keldeo and I'd really like an explanation from both of them.
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And also I think the emergence of the no Lynch wagon EOD probably means dk/KCC aren't both town. If both wagon choices were good for scum, why Elect for a third, mediocre option?
Who were the people who initially started the push for a no lynch?
I know the answer, just asking what that says to you.
Wait for vaimes and keldeo to answer.
Wait for dkings to come clarify his role timing
Wait for silver to remember how we won ghostbusters i guess?
just to remind you, it was sowing indecisiveness for no lynches so the scummy townies stuck around for us to hide in. None of us was townread, there were just always better lynches. If the ghostbusters town had just gone through with mislynches on DV and ruma, they easily would have gotten around to lynching us (especially kami since literally no one thought he was town) before lylo.
Once you add in nightkills, 2 no lynches does add up to a mislynch for scum. Only even better because theres more lynchbait still kicking around.
I see parallels here. Not to mention the chance one or both of them are scum and its just
Infuriating.
Even with no death last night our progress so far is "same ***** with less gemma"
With a kcc flip, even if town, wed be somewhere.
Yeah I realize now I could have made that more clear, but I was in a time crunch and needed to get off the computer.
I could choose my target at any time during Summer. I could have chosen as soon as Nacho switched the seasons, although I didn't. The BG is semi-permanent (I think my breadcrumb made that clear). It's always on, but I can choose to change my target the next time summer rolls around. I did select my target last night. I would prefer to keep that a secret for now.
Would having a vote on a scumread made any difference?
possibly not but, for example, i feel far better about nacho/silver who actually pushed the no lynch idea and still voted dkings... and even rhand who voted nacho.
They used their votes towards something.
Starting to get a tingling of scum theater vibes from Vaimes and KCC. Vaimes just straight-up admitting he used the vendor ability to get towncred seems like... a further reach for towncred. And something about KCC's consternation over the vendor not targeting her rings hollow, and she took the time to point out that Vaimes targeting her would have been a good play for scum.
Vaimes's reaction to the Gemma death also came off super fake.
Vaimes' meta is literally more polarized than mine and I don't get why he gets town reads for being tonally sound, when his wolf and town games are like night and day different
Starting to get a tingling of scum theater vibes from Vaimes and KCC. Vaimes just straight-up admitting he used the vendor ability to get towncred seems like... a further reach for towncred. And something about KCC's consternation over the vendor not targeting her rings hollow, and she took the time to point out that Vaimes targeting her would have been a good play for scum.
Vaimes's reaction to the Gemma death also came off super fake.
Do you also think it's scum theater that she thought I was shading her when really I was crumbing that I planned to target her?
Vaimes' meta is literally more polarized than mine and I don't get why he gets town reads for being tonally sound, when his wolf and town games are like night and day different
Vaimes:
>didnt think about it?
>was townreading both wagons, but actually voted no lynch over just putting vote on a scumread
>Statement about gemma dying that makes me think hes scum just trying to get through the day with a dead towny that he cant/wont explain
Fonti:
>acknowledged how bad no lynching is, was scumreading both wagons
>moved vote from bigger one to smaller one and dipped
Keldeo:
>acknowledged no lynching was bad. Scumreading kcc not dkings
>actually decided no lynch was better and unvoted. Did not explain, hasnt showed up today to do something with it
Vaimes' meta is literally more polarized than mine and I don't get why he gets town reads for being tonally sound, when his wolf and town games are like night and day different
Game of Thrones mafia disagrees.
idk ignored the game after I replaced for the most part
Why do you not care about this game? Why would u be ok with a gamestate that makes the game even more gruesome, I'm referring to the no lynch
Vaimes' meta is literally more polarized than mine and I don't get why he gets town reads for being tonally sound, when his wolf and town games are like night and day different
Starting to get a tingling of scum theater vibes from Vaimes and KCC. Vaimes just straight-up admitting he used the vendor ability to get towncred seems like... a further reach for towncred. And something about KCC's consternation over the vendor not targeting her rings hollow, and she took the time to point out that Vaimes targeting her would have been a good play for scum.
Vaimes's reaction to the Gemma death also came off super fake.
Do you also think it's scum theater that she thought I was shading her when really I was crumbing that I planned to target her?
Never mind, dk. Only relevant if people really want to push a KCC/Vaimes world.
Last, it's not that gruesome. Elect vezok, she kills, we move on and pretend this was a slightly longer Day 1. She can even kill KCC, if vote analysis is that important here. It's only gruesome if we drag it out to deadline.
It's not that I don't care about the game, it's just that there's something more important that this game is preventing me from enjoying. It's not serious enough to replace out, I'm just not gonna be as hyper-involved as usual. Which I would think is a good thing, since it means I'm not spamming the thread.
first of all, thats not a team of 4 scum its 4 people i think are scummy in a world where the kcc wagon is town.
Obviously kcc is suspect there, and the 3 people i just talked about.
I doubt that those particular 4 are very likely.
Day Two ends on December 27th at 4PM PST
The King will be the sole determiner of the lynch and may decide the lynch at any time by the deadline by posting Execute: Player.
The Current Season is Summer Vezokpiraka has been elected as King.
Still think silver is just playing 3rd party to the thread, I mean his questions are fine, I just want him to take some stances
I'm probably reading Silver from a, "this is what I think he should be doing as town, rather than he is actually wolfy", but still I'm not used to it
@silver
Do you just read vaimes as not townie but not wolfy either? If u have reasons to believe he can be town, please let me know
Yeah, kind of. I was town reading his entrance but he's done ~nothing I think is very villagery since then. His claim is ~fine but hardly clearing.
I don't really think I'm acting like a third party but I'm definitely not the center of attention and not trying to be either lol
@tom: Do you think the janitored, private day kill isn't strong enough for all the claimed summer roles to be town? Or that it isn't a summer ability? Both?
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Vaimes being a salesman version of giftgiver is meh. His use of it seems lightly scum to me?
Like hes ingratiating himself to vez rather than trying to upgrade some of the crappier claimed abilities?
Like if he thinks any of axel/fonti/kcc are town they all have some stinkers iirc
For last...
Dreaming god is what i thought of when fonti claimed. Only she was a crappy oracle CCing a watcher for some reason?
Dreaming god is definitely a thing that exists that could be in this game. It does seem like thats where a season change ability would be though so thats a bit weird with nacho? But last is probably true claiming regardless of his alignment. As silver said probably the only difference is if hes scum he knows <just a bit> more lol. And hes probably town separate from that hes not paralyzed by TMI and i think he actually didnt understand seasonal abilities?
This should be a simple question.
Why was gemma dying relevant to that?
Gemma dying just mean we weren’t going into N1 with no flips. Not relevant for vote count analysis, if that’s what you’re asking.
What do you mean by upgrading crappy abilities? I don’t upgrade anything when I sell my items, and my items aren’t that much better than the claimed roles.
0 scum benefit in targeting vezok. Scum can’t possibly become a Mason.
So you just saw people saying no lynch was a good idea and werent curious why?
Because theres abilities every season. Stopping at one really doesnt make aense with ~any~ thought put in and i think of you as thoughtful...
What benefit are you getting from flips that an obvtown gemma flip is the same as a poe one?
Thats the most incromprehinsible part to me. Like... theres less need to lynch because scum already killed someone? Wat?
Help me out here. The whole concept of an intentional no lynch yesterday with the explanations given has got me respecting whichever of yall are town less as mafia players. I want everyone that thought it was a good idea, to be scum. I know thats not true but
Like
How am i gonna think its 0?
I know that Nacho claimed he changed seasons to give KCC an ability, and that he wanted her and Axel to coordinate or something. No, I didn't get any more detail than that, but given the alternative was voting someone I wasn't sure was scum (dk, KCC), I chose No Lunch. I would have moved my vote if I had been able to keep an eye on the thread, but everyone was posting way too much for me, and my attention was very divided.
The Gemma flip isn't very relevant. I just think that, having a flip at all, makes No Lunching a less horrible option than it otherwise would be. I have said the exact same thing in other games, there was one specific case where we were about to No Lunch after a Daykill had happened or something.
Maybe calm down and have a snack. We're not in the worst-case scenario, just in a mildly annoying one. A re-do of Day 1 with only one less villager instead of two, or three, and some more info floating around.
The messenger ability is trash.
I dont particularly enjoy having to ask multiple times to get that fairly simple answer.
Id still like you to explain that logic and perhaps show me where you said it before because i strongly believe the daykill makes no lynching a far more horrible option than usual, which is already fairly horrible...
Also if i accept you didnt think about it then, can you think about it now? He wanted to no lynch to use claimed abilities instead of... yknow... the abilities of every other season wed be delaying because of that. How strong would those abilities have to be to make that worthwhile? How about a watch and a busdrive?
If the ability would’ve worked on Vez, he would probably have joined the chat with whoever the partner is and outed him to scum.
And he would’ve closed mason chat, which is pretty big.
And if he knew he can’t take a passive, he didn’t give a BP vest to someone he would maybe have to kill later.
I see only mafia gain and no town gain in targeting Vez.
I'm not going to explain the logic because I wasn't really thinking too deeply about it. "Okay, we had at least one death, people want to do summer junk, I don't like any of the lunch options - No Lunch it is." Was my entire thought process. Again, I probably would have moved to KCC if I were around, but I couldn't. And it's not like my vote would have made a difference - two more were needed for KCC.
You know I suck at evaluating Night actions. I don't think about things like that unless I'm scum, and even then I usually **** it up. I didn't fully understand what Nacho wanted KCC and Axel to do, but because of that and dk being a summer protective role AND me not wanting to lunch people I wasn't scumreading, even if it was beneficial, I just went with it.
There was the added benefit of vezok getting some use out of my abilities, had it worked.
Axel- selfish wanted to use his ability.
Silver- had kcc in towncore. Did vote dkings
I think those are fine?
Nacho- little of the two above. Making his ability not a waste, coordinating summer actions. Townread kcc. Did vote dkings
Grape- townread kcc, stayed on dk
Kcc/rhand- voted their top scumread nacho i guess?
<everyone on kcc>, trying to lynch someone they scumread
Also i have zero scumreads on kcc wagon. Which is almost definitely feeding into my thoughts here
Which leaves:
Vaimes:
>didnt think about it?
>was townreading both wagons, but actually voted no lynch over just putting vote on a scumread
>Statement about gemma dying that makes me think hes scum just trying to get through the day with a dead towny that he cant/wont explain
Fonti:
>acknowledged how bad no lynching is, was scumreading both wagons
>moved vote from bigger one to smaller one and dipped
Keldeo:
>acknowledged no lynching was bad. Scumreading kcc not dkings
>actually decided no lynch was better and unvoted. Did not explain, hasnt showed up today to do something with it
It's still a bad action, but the explanations are reasonable.
tom makes very good cases for Fonti and Keldeo and I'd really like an explanation from both of them.
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Who were the people who initially started the push for a no lynch?
I know the answer, just asking what that says to you.
Yeah I realize now I could have made that more clear, but I was in a time crunch and needed to get off the computer.
I could choose my target at any time during Summer. I could have chosen as soon as Nacho switched the seasons, although I didn't. The BG is semi-permanent (I think my breadcrumb made that clear). It's always on, but I can choose to change my target the next time summer rolls around. I did select my target last night. I would prefer to keep that a secret for now.
They used their votes towards something.
Thats basically what i thought your role was.
People are dumdums
Vaimes's reaction to the Gemma death also came off super fake.
Why do you not care about this game? Why would u be ok with a gamestate that makes the game even more gruesome, I'm referring to the no lynch
What?
What?
How would you like me to clarify that statement?
Last, it's not that gruesome. Elect vezok, she kills, we move on and pretend this was a slightly longer Day 1. She can even kill KCC, if vote analysis is that important here. It's only gruesome if we drag it out to deadline.
It's not that I don't care about the game, it's just that there's something more important that this game is preventing me from enjoying. It's not serious enough to replace out, I'm just not gonna be as hyper-involved as usual. Which I would think is a good thing, since it means I'm not spamming the thread.
@vaimes
Perfect, then vezok can just kill you and I can move on
I'm not even sure anyone did the usual "don't want to lunch him because he'll be obvious later" thing
Dont think its actively likely either though, and doubt i care about whatever interaction vaimes is talking about
Dkings (4) - Grape, nacho, silver, fulcrum
nacho (2) - Rhand, KCC
No Lynch (2) - vaimes, Axel
Not Voting (2) -Keldeo, Proph
Not a readslist, just a world
@Vaimes: your current read on KCC?
Obviously kcc is suspect there, and the 3 people i just talked about.
I doubt that those particular 4 are very likely.
Second. 17 player game, 4 seems most likely yeah?
I'm probably reading Silver from a, "this is what I think he should be doing as town, rather than he is actually wolfy", but still I'm not used to it
@silver
Do you just read vaimes as not townie but not wolfy either? If u have reasons to believe he can be town, please let me know
The King will be the sole determiner of the lynch and may decide the lynch at any time by the deadline by posting Execute: Player.
The Current Season is Summer
Vezokpiraka has been elected as King.
Who are your current scum leans/reads?
I don't really think I'm acting like a third party but I'm definitely not the center of attention and not trying to be either lol
@tom: Do you think the janitored, private day kill isn't strong enough for all the claimed summer roles to be town? Or that it isn't a summer ability? Both?