MTG Salvation

Alright folks, I should be much, much more active the rest of this day with the holidays finally over and half of my department not on vacation.

Quote from Rhand »

Quote from Vaimes »

I’d say at least read Mind’s/Rhand’s/my ISOs. They’re kind of the hot topics right now.

KCC also claimed she has a scummy role but left it at that.

Unless Vaimes is scum with Grape, this is a good look for Vaimes.
There’s no real point in putting attention to yourself like this as scum.

Quote from Rhand »

Quote from Lastwhisper »

@rhand
I don't get why scum!vaimes couldn't say that either... It's literally just words.

How is telling someone to ISO yourself as part of a catch up just words?

Do you believe in alignment tells at all?

Unlike your earlier analysis of fulcrum/Vezok, I'm actually inclined to agree with you here. But in both cases you made a link between two players who could potentially be scum together. I feel like this is something you have actively discouraged people from doing in past games and it's troublesome.

Quote from Killjoy »

@dkingsland: First, do you believe Vezok's claim? You made a big old post in 801 about her, but following her claim on your post back there was a noticeable lack of comment on that. You moved your vote, sure but given the conviction in that read I was expecting a little more. Second question for you here is a two-parter: If you believe the claim, who are the scum pushing him when he claimed, and if you don't believe it, do you think the wagon is pure?

I think vezok's claim is pretty likely to be legit. Virtually everything I disliked about her play in this game jives with a player who doesn't really care enough to play to a high level because they're just going to be confirmed if they get run up.

As for the second part of the question, I've already more-or-less answered that by voting KCC. I mentioned in the post back that you're referring to that I think it's highly likely there is one scum hiding in those three snap votes that came after my case. I started two separate wagons on D1 of Modern (you and Beeboy), both times there was a string of /barn votes, and both times there was a scum in the mix.

Although, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it was Tom both times.

Quote from Vaimes »

And I’ve said multiple times that Axel feels like he’s LHF hunting. At the moment I can’t recall who he’s been poking at other than KCC or Mind. Probably Silver too, just based on his list, but haven’t noticed as much.

And a lot of his townreads don’t look sincere with all the hemming and hawing.

Quote from Vaimes »

Quote from Killjoy »

What attack do you think fulcrum is accusing you of defending from?

That is the point.

Unvote, vote Axel

The thing with him is I haven't really liked his targets. He's been poking slash making off-hand comments at KCC, KJ, Mind. Somewhat easy-to-justify targets, and he did mention that he doesn't have strong stances Day 1 but it's still very very eh, will check that out when I have time. I can't trim quotes and don't want to post a huge wall, but his ISO isn't that long.

The timing of this vote is really odd.

Vaimes, you had been talking about Axel's "LHF hunting" for a while, and before you voted him you were even voting one of the players he's been targeting (Mindreaver). Why did you wait to jump on him until after being prodded about it by Killjoy?

Quote from Killjoy »

Gemma: I'm not seeing a lot of town motive in your posts. That's why you're null. You're actually on the low end of null.

Really? I think Gemma is one of only two or three posters in the game who actually look like they are trying to probe into mindsets and really hash out reads. Everyone else just seems to be overly relying on meta or looking for tells.

Quote from Gemma »

Like, what even is 1019 from KCC. There's been a bunch happening and she just comments on some piecemeal stuff, makes no real contribution to the game and gives no impression that she actually has a broader sense of what her solve is, how she's trying to get at the game, or that she cares about town winning at all. Everything she's been doing all game is completely irrelevant. She's not helping us win the game. So why does no one want to lynch her? Because she's a lurker? Because she softed a PR? Bitch please.

I'm pretty sure KCC has multiple votes on her?

Quote from KittyCupCake »

Gemma/mind w/w then?

Quote from KittyCupCake »

Quote from Gemma »

It's not an inconsistency. The lynch being frozen on Mind is a byproduct of the whole deal. Bad gamestates don't just happen, they're a result of the collective process of the players in the game.

The game is where it is because Mind should have been lynched a week ago.

KCC/Mindreaver W/V

Quote from Gemma »

And Nacho... I mean, he's made a lot of excellent posts, he looks very very town in words, but I just cannot get there on him. Partly because talking about how people are town is something he is very good at and can do for days as a wolf. But mostly because his pushes have been super underwhelming. So while I think he's town on balance I do have concerns there, but again there's little I can do to resolve him other than what I've tried to do so far. And he's put out so much content that I feel like if he was mafia I would have caught him by now, or at least had concrete suspicions and not just the mild concerns that I do have. But I haven't played with him in ages, and am not as confident about my ability to read him anymore. And this is partly why I'm happy not ending the day yet - he's promised a bunch more posts and I'm still hopeful that I can get there on him one way or the other.

Gemma, a question for you since you seem to be intimately familiar with Nacho's game... is he the type of player who tends to lose steam as scum?

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

re: Grape I ~kind of~ think he's town for reasons unrelated to his posts but at the same time it's uh. interesting that he voted tom for /barning DK's vezok case and then immediately said he thought wolves would have stayed off the wagon.

This is a really solid point, and Slothful's disappearing act doesn't look great for that slot considering both Gemma and fulcrum said they believed he could be active if he wanted to be.

Quote from Killjoy »

Somebody tell me what villager Rhand is doing this game.

Rhand: Link me the best towngame you can and best scumgame you can. Recent doesn't matter. Your style hasn't changed in a while.

The two games I am most proud of that come to mind immediately are my last two micro’s.
In the one that just ended I was town and had the scumteam nailed very quickly, and in the other one (token 2) I was mafia and managed to score a perfect win. You were in both.

if you want bigger games, I will have to dig a bit. I’m not good at remembering which situations occurred in which games.

Quote from vezokpiraka »

I think I'll just vote rhand. The 180 on KJ after KJ showed suspicion of him is pretty disturbing. It feels like Rhand is just poking around trying to make a wagon stick. His vote on me was also iffy.

@Rhand: Why would misguided town have less conviction than scum trying to push you? Town usually have a lot more conviction in their reads regardless if they are wrong or right.

It’s not any misguided town. It’s KJ. This level of conviction after being so wrong so often bugs me.

I’m going to ignore my instinct and let KJ slide for now. Too many of my townreads are calling this v/v.
And I think there’s other scum in the Grape slot. The way he votes tom and then casually talks to him later is off. And he doesn’t have a real reason for the tom vote.

vote Grape

@Dkings: When I have time, I will look up the theory about toxic linking I once wrote out for Proph. Linking people can indeed be scum motivated, but that’s not what I am doing here. I am merely stating possible connections when I see them.

Quote from KittyCupCake »

Activity aside, I still think the posts he actually made we're scummy.

Quote from Rhand »

he doesn’t have a real reason for the tom vote.

~~~~~~~~
vezok?
Nacho/last/axel
Gemma/silver/dkings
<kj+rhand>
asta/jack
kcc
keldeo/fulcrum/vaimes
grape

I'm just a man of the people, not above but equal
And for the greater good I walk amongst the evil
Don't cry, Mama, this the life I choose myself
Just pray along the way that I don't lose myself

Quote from Rhand »

And he doesn’t have a real reason for the tom vote

I have thoughts on this, but I want to hear from grape first

I guess the tactic of explicitly asking Silver to ask me about my tom scum read lead people to believe I had no reason to vote him. Funny how that works.

Anyway DK in particular did point to the contradiction in my post. I think there are more scum in the off wagons at Vez's peak but I believe tom is the most likely person to be scum because of that wagon. As DK helpfully mentioned Tom bandwagoned his vote as the wagon was really taking off. Tom in particular is a player who as scum believes in "killing town and worrying later". He's not one to get caught up on long term planning D1 but instead just wants to kill townies who make themselves easily killable. These sort of bandwagon votes are exactly the votes he likes to make as scum. Justifiable and on townies.

After Vez's claim he just pivots to the Mind bangwagon with nothing to add. It's harder than usual to get into his mindset here but this is uncharacteristically "safe" play from tom. He's not taking any swings or rocking the boat heavily. The lack of boldness isn't a wolf tell by any means but it combined with the bandwagon votes is worrying. Even if he's not chasing it tom as both alignments usually has one big fish in his sights even if he's putting it on the backburner.

Last thing that piqued my interest is his Rhand stance. It's all sorts of fishy to me. The pairings post wrt to KJ didn't add up and his evolution from Rhand being bottom 4 as of post 850 is particularly unsubstantiated.

Then after my vote was placed he started pushing me over a TMI on silver (who he repeatedly states is town). 1096 accuses me of a TMI quoting a post where I wind up scum reading Silver over something that initially struck me as town. The implication here is so convoluted. If he read me correctly then he's saying I know Silver is scum so I'm "fixing" a read that felt town to me. Which is a fine accusation to make, but makes no sense when combined with a belief that Silver is town. So the other option is he thinks I'm TMI'ing by scum reading a townie (with a slight caveat that I overruled) which is just not what that phrase means or how he's used it in the past.

I passed out last night while attempting to catch up, but good news is I have another day off tomorrow so should be a real person by then.

Asta, if you're available tomorrow, I should be around for most of the day!

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

It's harder than usual to get into his mindset here

I thought you might not have realized how Tom was posting yet, which would have definitely made his unexplained vote look worse there, but I guess not.

Anyway, I don't think this is a good assumption you and dk are stuck on. I'm townlean on both Tom and lw. Vez admitted her posts weren't very townie, and dk put together a strong case -that's going to gather votes. And considering how quick the push and claim were, it's likely scum weren't even active to get involved.

Quote from KittyCupCake »

I thought you might not have realized how Tom was posting yet, which would have definitely made his unexplained vote look worse there, but I guess not.

Anyway, I don't think this is a good assumption you and dk are stuck on. I'm townlean on both Tom and lw. Vez admitted her posts weren't very townie, and dk put together a strong case -that's going to gather votes. And considering how quick the push and claim were, it's likely scum weren't even active to get involved.

I mean that's kind of exactly my point. It's simultaneously a wagon that is predominately likely to be townie and organic but tom's positioning is similar to how he likes to play as scum. I think the wagon looks good for most on it, but actively looks bad for tom because of how he plays as scum.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

I guess the tactic of explicitly asking Silver to ask me about my tom scum read lead people to believe I had no reason to vote him. Funny how that works.

Anyway DK in particular did point to the contradiction in my post. I think there are more scum in the off wagons at Vez's peak but I believe tom is the most likely person to be scum because of that wagon. As DK helpfully mentioned Tom bandwagoned his vote as the wagon was really taking off. Tom in particular is a player who as scum believes in "killing town and worrying later". He's not one to get caught up on long term planning D1 but instead just wants to kill townies who make themselves easily killable. These sort of bandwagon votes are exactly the votes he likes to make as scum. Justifiable and on townies.

After Vez's claim he just pivots to the Mind bangwagon with nothing to add. It's harder than usual to get into his mindset here but this is uncharacteristically "safe" play from tom. He's not taking any swings or rocking the boat heavily. The lack of boldness isn't a wolf tell by any means but it combined with the bandwagon votes is worrying. Even if he's not chasing it tom as both alignments usually has one big fish in his sights even if he's putting it on the backburner.

Last thing that piqued my interest is his Rhand stance. It's all sorts of fishy to me. The pairings post wrt to KJ didn't add up and his evolution from Rhand being bottom 4 as of post 850 is particularly unsubstantiated.

Then after my vote was placed he started pushing me over a TMI on silver (who he repeatedly states is town). 1096 accuses me of a TMI quoting a post where I wind up scum reading Silver over something that initially struck me as town. The implication here is so convoluted. If he read me correctly then he's saying I know Silver is scum so I'm "fixing" a read that felt town to me. Which is a fine accusation to make, but makes no sense when combined with a belief that Silver is town. So the other option is he thinks I'm TMI'ing by scum reading a townie (with a slight caveat that I overruled) which is just not what that phrase means or how he's used it in the past.

Spitting live from a helicopter
Turn this ***** up if you ain't hearing me proper

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

I mean that's kind of exactly my point. It's simultaneously a wagon that is predominately likely to be townie and organic but tom's positioning is similar to how he likes to play as scum. I think the wagon looks good for most on it, but actively looks bad for tom because of how he plays as scum.

Okay, yeah, I agree, if Tom is scum, he happily hops on there. But, I don't think that means townTom doesn't make that vote too.

Because I like his Vez vote there. And the mind vote after. And while I don't know exactly why Tom was scumlean on Rhand, I know I had suspicions there too for a bit, and I agree with where he is now that it's likely v/v.

Votecount 1.10

KittyCupCake(5) - Nachomamma8, Gemma, dkingsland967, Asta, vezokpiraka

Grapefruit21(2) - tomsloger, Rhand

Axelrod(1) - Vaimes
Keldeo(1) - KittyCupCake
tomsloger(1) - Grapefruit21
Vaimes(1) - fulcrum

Not Voting(6) - Jackrito, Axelrod, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, Silvercrys, Keldeo

Heh I thought KJ was voting me.
@KJ: why aren’t you voting me?

@Grape: you give a conflicted read in this post. Why are you so sure the tmi tom accuses you of is about the second part of your sentence and not about the “part of me wants to town read that” part?

Quote from tomsloger »

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Part of me wants to town read that as scum like to avoid that sort of disconnect in their posts but the thrust of the intent feels anti town to me.

I really wish I knew you back
Before you knew too much
(Who taught ya how to move like that
Throw it back, you my old school crush)
grapefruit scum

meh that Grapefruit scum read is the one read I dont really agree with on when it comes to Tom, not really seeing it
and in a KCC being a wolf world, then Grape is more likely town than not, given how KCC chose to read him

Quote from dkingsland967 »

I'm pretty sure KCC has multiple votes on her?

Apparently. I didn't even remember voting her.

Quote from dkingsland967 »

Gemma, a question for you since you seem to be intimately familiar with Nacho's game... is he the type of player who tends to lose steam as scum?

Nope. He loves wolfing.

Quote from dkingsland967 »

This is a really solid point, and Slothful's disappearing act doesn't look great for that slot considering both Gemma and fulcrum said they believed he could be active if he wanted to be.

Until it became known that he had IRL issues. Scumreading him for that is a bad idea regardless.

Quote from KittyCupCake »

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

I mean that's kind of exactly my point. It's simultaneously a wagon that is predominately likely to be townie and organic but tom's positioning is similar to how he likes to play as scum. I think the wagon looks good for most on it, but actively looks bad for tom because of how he plays as scum.

Okay, yeah, I agree, if Tom is scum, he happily hops on there. But, I don't think that means townTom doesn't make that vote too.

Because I like his Vez vote there. And the mind vote after. And while I don't know exactly why Tom was scumlean on Rhand, I know I had suspicions there too for a bit, and I agree with where he is now that it's likely v/v.

Why do you get v/v from it / why is that strong enough to override your previous suspicion?

vote: Vaimes

Quote from Lastwhisper »

vote: Vaimes

Feel like sharing why?

Vote: Vaimes

@Gemma
tbh id rather kill a lurker, but like Jackrito has still not given content, Keldeo has replaced Mind, so not going there, Grape looks ok?
Vaimes is either just a wolf, or forcibly trying to change his meta, a longer day phase does not explain his disconnect from the game

Vaimes also still has that one read on Keldeo/Mindreaver that just feels like straight TMI/shade

Quote from Lastwhisper »

Vaimes also still has that one read on Keldeo/Mindreaver that just feels like straight TMI/shade

Shade? Where?

For Dkings: this is the theory about the linking I wrote out for Proph a few years ago:

Quick takes up to 950:

I think vezok's telling the truth for the way she mentioned her partner probably being obvious. I don't think her partner should claim now, it could be a confirmable role later on.

Given that, Asta's continuing to SR vezok in the way he did is pretty towny to me. I also think his 935 feels very tonally similar to his first game - trying to solve but kind of hesitant or unsure about how to solve confidently, coupled with a lack of self-consciousness about admitting this.

Had an after-the-fact mindmeld with Grapefruit's entrance on Asta's post being town indicative, but that's really not a hard thing to say. I didn't like how Gemma painted Sloth as "frozen" but I feel like Gemma is town for... pretty nebulous reasons. Somewhat absorbing thread reads, somewhat "seems genuine in attempting to solve the game", and some of the more esoteric comparisons she drew about her own play, I feel like she may have wanted to simplify if she were mafia? That last one is conjecture about her playstyle/personality.

Silver pointing out Rhand walking back the tom thing in a somewhat brittle way kind of makes me want to walk back the observation I made about Rhand. Silver is still towny imo, I don't really think his treatment of my slot was weird.

Wisp getting emotional at people scumreading my slot stuck out, I feel like the annoyance is congruent with what I've seen before from town him. In the moment I didn't like... strongly think Vaimes was TMIing me? idk, I don't have a good feel for what Vaimes has done, I think.

I might finish catching up Wednesday night instead of tonight, it's been unexpectedly busy.

Quote from Gemma »

Apparently. I didn't even remember voting her.

Wait. Then why that whole rant about no one wanting to lynch me?

Why were you trying to push a wagon you didn't think you were on?

Quote from Gemma »

Why do you get v/v from it / why is that strong enough to override your previous suspicion?

Oh, no, I'm pretty sure I got there differently from how Tom did. I came around on Rhand before he got tangled up with KJ. The way they went at each other just didn't make me doubt those town reads at all.

Quote from Rhand »

@Grape: you give a conflicted read in this post. Why are you so sure the tmi tom accuses you of is about the second part of your sentence and not about the “part of me wants to town read that” part?

Quote from tomsloger »

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Part of me wants to town read that as scum like to avoid that sort of disconnect in their posts but the thrust of the intent feels anti town to me.

I really wish I knew you back
Before you knew too much
(Who taught ya how to move like that
Throw it back, you my old school crush)
grapefruit scum

I mean it could be but that would be an odd thing to read as TMI since it was basically a twtabw-esque read. Especially given that Tom's the one who coined the term hedgelord for me.

KCC, it wasn't about you per se, and I wasn't trying to push your wagon.

So what made you come around on Rhand?

@dk

I didn't "wait" to do anything. I was voting Mind because I thought it might be best for gameflow reasons, and then KJ explicitly invited me back to Axel, so I moved back.

Gemma, I see you deliberately naked voting while asking someone else why they're naked voting.

Quote from Lastwhisper »

@Gemma
tbh id rather kill a lurker, but like Jackrito has still not given content, Keldeo has replaced Mind, so not going there, Grape looks ok?
Vaimes is either just a wolf, or forcibly trying to change his meta, a longer day phase does not explain his disconnect from the game

Vaimes also still has that one read on Keldeo/Mindreaver that just feels like straight TMI/shade

I have explained at least twice that I'm trying not to live in the gamethread. If that's your issue, you might as well keep your vote parked, but stop acting like we haven't already been over this.

Don't really want to lunch Grape, Vaimes wagon seems fine but he said he has the day off so I'll give him a little while. My main concern is that he kind of fell off a cliff but it might not be AI if he's been busy.

Keldeo's catch up mostly agrees with my worldview but he's in Mindreaver's slot... I don't really want to lunch him after he slogged through a thousand posts already and seems like he'll be active at least though.

I'll post more when I get to a PC but I'll check my phone if anyone wants to bounce something off of me.

Also do not want to lunch Grape.

Oh, hi Vaimes.

I wouldn't really characterize Genna's vote as naked, she's been expressing "concerns" about you for a while I think?

Talk to me about your Axel read, mine should be somewhere near the top of my iso if you want to compare.

Gemma*

Phone posting is hard

@Vaimes
ok, my vote will stay on you then, unless I need to hammer someone at EoD to move the game forward

I guess Whisper's wolf read has been kind of long standing too so not sure I would characterize his as naked either, though

Hmm.

We had a small back and forth where she reassured she didn't find something or other I did as scummy, probably the "flailing," and the vote came almost right after I said I would be here tomorrow, which is now. Had I not followed up, sure I could see it, but it feels pretty pukey.

I went over my Axel read fairly recently.
I'll look for yours a little later, unless you really want to chat now? I still have rereading to do.

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

I guess Whisper's wolf read has been kind of long standing too so not sure I would characterize his as naked either, though

Hmm.

It was technically naked, naked enough that Gemma had to ask him about it. But yes I know he's addicted to scumreading me so I'm not too shaken up about it.

Quote from Gemma »

I want to lynch Sloth because he has no justifiable reason to be a vacant slot

Quote from Gemma »

Quote from dkingsland967 »

This is a really solid point, and Slothful's disappearing act doesn't look great for that slot considering both Gemma and fulcrum said they believed he could be active if he wanted to be.

Until it became known that he had IRL issues. Scumreading him for that is a bad idea regardless.

Erm... what happened here?

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Then after my vote was placed he started pushing me over a TMI on silver (who he repeatedly states is town). 1096 accuses me of a TMI quoting a post where I wind up scum reading Silver over something that initially struck me as town. The implication here is so convoluted. If he read me correctly then he's saying I know Silver is scum so I'm "fixing" a read that felt town to me. Which is a fine accusation to make, but makes no sense when combined with a belief that Silver is town. So the other option is he thinks I'm TMI'ing by scum reading a townie (with a slight caveat that I overruled) which is just not what that phrase means or how he's used it in the past.

Quote from Rhand »

@Grape: you give a conflicted read in this post. Why are you so sure the tmi tom accuses you of is about the second part of your sentence and not about the “part of me wants to town read that” part?

Quote from tomsloger »

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Part of me wants to town read that as scum like to avoid that sort of disconnect in their posts but the thrust of the intent feels anti town to me.

I really wish I knew you back
Before you knew too much
(Who taught ya how to move like that
Throw it back, you my old school crush)
grapefruit scum

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

I mean it could be but that would be an odd thing to read as TMI since it was basically a twtabw-esque read. Especially given that Tom's the one who coined the term hedgelord for me.

I'm so confused by this. I really wish Tom could extrapolate on what exactly he thought Grape was TMI'ing here, because the first Grape quote actually makes some sense unless Rhand was right. And just typing that sentence gave me a headache.

Quote from Lastwhisper »

meh that Grapefruit scum read is the one read I dont really agree with on when it comes to Tom, not really seeing it
and in a KCC being a wolf world, then Grape is more likely town than not, given how KCC chose to read him

I don't believe KCC voiced a read on Grape?

@Rhand: Fair enough.

Quote from Vaimes »

@dk

I didn't "wait" to do anything. I was voting Mind because I thought it might be best for gameflow reasons, and then KJ explicitly invited me back to Axel, so I moved back.

Yeah I see that now. You snipped the part where Killjoy said "Want to lynch Axel with me?" when you quoted him, so that got lost in my catch-up.

@DK
did kcc not give a town read or at least a psuedo townread on Grape with his thoughts on Grape not knowing there was a day chat?
don't think that interaction is ever w/w

Quote from Vaimes »

We had a small back and forth where she reassured she didn't find something or other I did as scummy, probably the "flailing," and the vote came almost right after I said I would be here tomorrow, which is now. Had I not followed up, sure I could see it, but it feels pretty pukey.

I went over my Axel read fairly recently.

Quote from Vaimes »

That is the point.

Unvote, vote Axel

The thing with him is I haven't really liked his targets. He's been poking slash making off-hand comments at KCC, KJ, Mind. Somewhat easy-to-justify targets, and he did mention that he doesn't have strong stances Day 1 but it's still very very eh, will check that out when I have time. I can't trim quotes and don't want to post a huge wall, but his ISO isn't that long.

The one where he called out KCC for going V/LA without content seemed very out of character for him. I think the villager version of that post is "can you please post about xyz before you go?" or "when you get back, can you answer xyz questions I have for you?" or something Instead it's just shade for shade's sake.

I'm also kind of weirded out by his interactions with Nacho. He looks like he should be a scumread for Axel, but isn't. Feels a little posture-y.

I'll look for yours a little later, unless you really want to chat now? I still have rereading to do.

If you want to reread first, that's fine, I should be here in some capacity most of the day

Quote from Lastwhisper »

@DK
did kcc not give a town read or at least a psuedo townread on Grape with his thoughts on Grape not knowing there was a day chat?
don't think that interaction is ever w/w

Unless it's constructed in daychat
(not that I think that's the case)

Quote from Rhand »

Quote from Lastwhisper »

@DK
did kcc not give a town read or at least a psuedo townread on Grape with his thoughts on Grape not knowing there was a day chat?
don't think that interaction is ever w/w

Unless it's constructed in daychat
(not that I think that's the case)

Think there's equal chance Grape didn't read the OP as either alignment, if he's a wolf he still wouldn't know day chat is public info and might have tried to represent his lack of knowledge regarding it

Not that I think that's the case either, but I don't think "didn't read the OP" is a great reason to town read him

Quote from Lastwhisper »

@DK
did kcc not give a town read or at least a psuedo townread on Grape with his thoughts on Grape not knowing there was a day chat?
don't think that interaction is ever w/w

I missed that too. Apparently I've been sleepwalking.

I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that interaction is never W/W though, because I've personally been part of one. I faked a derpclear early in a game once and one of my teammates immediately proclaimed me town.

that's all fair, don't think that makes Grape town, and my usage of obvious or always/ever is the polar opposite of the meaning

I really don't like Keldeo's entrance. The fact that he focused on mostly things I talked about makes me think he was scouring my posts to search for my partner.

I also think his Asta comments are not at all reasonable. Why would believing my claim is untrue be a townie thing? To me it feels like scum trying to saw discord. Asta, by her own admission, didn't even think that hard about my claim and only made thoughts when I pressured her.

1. You can not get a handle on Keldeo off his first few posts
2. After the debacle of a hydra game that I threw in F3, I am not touching Keldeo
3. Asta not straight up beliving your claim is more townie than not, it's not someone that is trying to sow discord in the thread

Insisting that someone has to believe your mason claim or else they're sowing discord seems WILD, vezok, would LOVE to know the thought process on that one. I was just gonna flat-out ignore it because I don't have enough reason to care if you're a mason at this juncture (seems like a neat role??? I guess??? like I'm new enough I just don't see the supreme team advantage it holds so???)

That combined with your post on Keldeo makes it seem like you're using the mason claim as a shield-- throw suspicion on anyone who targets you because they're looking for your partner.

Anyways, as for the replacements, I'm not interested in lynching them toDay-- would need more posting to get a better idea. Nothing obviously wolfy but not obviously towny yet.

Quote from Gemma »

KCC, it wasn't about you per se, and I wasn't trying to push your wagon.

What??
How is this not about me and not a push:
?

Quote from Gemma »

So what made you come around on Rhand?

I think it was this post: ...when I realized most of what felt off about Rhand to me would make sense if he was in this mindset of being focused on this aspect of his play and, either consciously or not, was overexplaining everything because of it.

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

Think there's equal chance Grape didn't read the OP as either alignment, if he's a wolf he still wouldn't know day chat is public info and might have tried to represent his lack of knowledge regarding it

Not that I think that's the case either, but I don't think "didn't read the OP" is a great reason to town read him

It's not just "didn't read op" = town though.

If grape is scum, and also knew daychat was public knowledge, the point of a post like that would be to get town points for not knowing. But saying, oh there probably is though NVM, just makes it so everyone probably ignores it. That's not how you do that. I think he'd want to push that read and force someone to correct him.

If he's scum and didn't know daychat was public knowledge, then why undercut his own analysis there by saying there probably is daychat? -Though, I guess in this world it could be a TMI thing. IDK, it still doesn't feel like that to me

Nah given his claim being straight up wild if he is a wolf, and given his meta, Im quite sure Vezok just believes everything he is saying and is still more likely town at this point

but this is also why his partner should claim, because it guarantees either two wolves, or two town, and it strengthens his claim anyways