Well given that idk why anyone is voting DK right now, I am just confused... We don't have reason to believe he is town or a wolf, so what information do we get from it
At least there we cases on both Vezok and Axel
I'd rather be voting scum then be voting a townie with a bad case, and I definitely found that I was pushing the case on Axelrod in the end, which I didn't like.
If you want to respond to my criticisms of the vezok case to push me that direction or offer a better alternative then I'm all ears, otherwise I'm on team chaos.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Also: I'm pretty sure the scum aren't entirely in [Gemma, Nacho, Asta, Slothful, fulcrum, Axel(?), dkings(?), Mind(?)] due to the fact that I haven't really been scumread yet. If the entirety of the scumteam was in there, they would either A)not know my playstyle or B) think I was still was easy mislynch and would probably at least have tried at some point before now.
This won't matter unless three of them flip scum, but it's still probably true.
You forgot c) have a scum partner who advised them such.
No I absolutely do not yet have a process, but I DO have fun. (Honestly trying to analyze but it's deffo overwhelming right now. I think I have Gemma/Vaimes somewhere in the vicinity of town but even they're huge question marks right now!)
tbf there is nothing in DK's iso that makes me think he is town, and the only thing that I really don't like is his shade of the Axel wagon, which can come from either alignment
Nacho: My reaction was basically "well, it's been a while since that's happened, but I'm not like. disturbed by it.It's not something that makes me think that it's scum last attacking me rn.
Gemma: That's the thing I was trying to point out: someone on the scumteam knows me well enough to warn the scum off me. So it's not exactly all in team[X].
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Do y'all want me to play like GoT mafia, someone acknowledge me, plz?
Some of your questions just feel like filler, and there are two questions I can vaguely remember that just look weird as *****, I'll pull them out when I get home though
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Do y'all want me to play like GoT mafia, someone acknowledge me, plz?
Some of your questions just feel like filler, and there are two questions I can vaguely remember that just look weird as *****, I'll pull them out when I get home though
Feels like we've been over this lol
I mostly ask questions that don't seem to go anywhere and poke stuff on D1
It's the slowest, worst bit of the game for me
We need more no-kill night starts or something
Anyway we just had a kind of back and forth but you gave me the boring, consistent answers so I don't really have anything else for you.
Kind of think you might be a villager but I have other stronger villager reads, so
Maybe it's something like Rhand/shadow/Mindreaver/+1 which is kind of where I'm at at the present moment because everyone else feels villagery to a greater or lesser extent
I wouldn't mind pressuring him a bit but he's traveling and if he's town I think he'll deliver. Based on my 2 year old meta of him from when he played regularly lol
me: I think I'm starting to warm up to feeling good about townreads on Vaimes and Killjoy
everyone else: I have so many townreads, what a problem
Why the hyperbole here? (is it hyperbole? I feel like you came to the conclusion of me and Vaimes a while ago, so you saying you're just watming up to it is... a word. Whatever that word, why is it happening now?)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I mean, I think Vaimes and Killjoy are my only actual town reads at the moment
My other reads are like, "seems like a villager but not out of what I believe to be their wolf range" sorted by how villagery they appear with the team I listed at the bottom because they don't feel like villagers when I read their posts or they don't actually have posts to read
Hey all, I haven't caught up, but I'll be able to tomorrow evening. Work has just been mentally exhausting, and after work I'm obligated to attend team building things, but tonight was the last night of that. I'd read now, but I had a bunch of beers and I somehow need to force myself to do things like iron clothes for tomorrow before I fall asleep. Should be interesting. Wish me luck
So I have this conundrum, I’m working extra long, hyper busy shifts, and am frankly mentally checked out when I get home, but I love my role too much to replace out (and it should get better soon...I hope...).
Anyway, Vez, I did enjoy your answer to me about summing up the thread, so thanks for that.
I’m just gonna grab things as I see them I think.
@sIlver: not that I’m one to talk, but you’ve actually been present in the thread, how do you only have 2 town reads?
@gemma: who are you specifically not town reading?
(The temptation to just ignore Last after that chagrin post about being ignored is rather high, would be funny)
@Nacho: what is your first impression on KJ not reacting to a vote on him, think he should have?
Oh, I apparently am still voting silver, heh Unvote
Guess RVS is sort of over.
Someone give me the quick and easy on DK.
I’m actually agreeing with Vaimes, if a single 4 wagon is the biggest so far, then this game is significantly slower in votes compared to the past few large games.
~~~~~
That’s a good start I think. If you want my specific thoughts on something, hit me up with a quote and a question.
I'm going to start with, I think his explanation for his push on me is ~fine. I can totally see town!Nacho thinking what he says he thought and doing what he did.
And I mostly like his read on me. It's like, naturally... paced? I said this about sloth earlier but it's just true; when I read the stuff he's writing about me I can see the cogs turning in his mind as he reads my posts for stuff he thinks is AI and tries to sort me. He went back after Fulcrum pointed out that his initial reason for townreading me was based on something I didn't do and reaffirmed it even though he had a perfectly valid reason to drop me back to null.
Maybe shadow, tom, or someone told him I'm much easier to pocket by town reading than I am to mislunch or something, I suppose, but it just doesn't really seem like something he decided to do that he then went back and tried to justify.
I don't ~really understand the Mindreaver read in #260. I don't think anyone was saying that the way Mindreaver's self meta was delivered was townie (it wasn't) and if the self meta is true (it is as far as I'm aware) then he hasn't actually left his scum range yet and can't use his activity as a defense. This doesn't really need a response/clarification, it just reads like weird shade and is so noted.
There's an indignant tone in his Vezok response in #250 that I like, and his tone throughout is kind of like... confident but not aggressive? The posts themselves feel a little manipulative but I get the sense that he's trying to solve and wants the space to do that, not trying to steer the thread off a cliff.
So, yeah. He's a capable wolf (I played against him in Horsemen, I believe?) but I don't really want to lunch him. Probably goes with Axelrod at the bottom of my town leans?
@Shadow: There isn't really a quick and easy on DK, Gemma and Vaimes seem to be sheeping Nacho wherever he goes and Nacho voted him because he wasn't happy with his Axel vote anymore. And... yeah, that's it, that's the wagon. Asta voted with a comment about having no idea what was going on or something, as I recall.
I only have two reads that are strong enough to call "town reads", as I said, I have a handful of -- actually, just have this
Why the hyperbole here? (is it hyperbole? I feel like you came to the conclusion of me and Vaimes a while ago, so you saying you're just watming up to it is... a word. Whatever that word, why is it happening now?)
Is not hyperbole. I had you and Vaimes as "page 3 townreads", which is to say preliminary townreads that don't amount to much. You've both been slowly creeping up since. Neither of you have crossed over the 90% mark, which is where I would start calling you a townread I feel good about. Am taking things slow, not entirely by choice.
His general mood is kind of... someone who knows the answers, is the most concise way I can think to put it. Don't know if it's just a personality thing.
Rhand but not for any reason you'd probably find compelling, his posts feel weird and he has a strong town read on me that kind of feels like TMI to me.
Vezok has been the designated counter-wagon to the basically identical Axel and dk wagons, I guess, and I've been thinking about switching to Mindreaver but I want to see his catch up first.
@Shadow: There isn't really a quick and easy on DK, Gemma and Vaimes seem to be sheeping Nacho wherever he goes and Nacho voted him because he wasn't happy with his Axel vote anymore. And... yeah, that's it, that's the wagon. Asta voted with a comment about having no idea what was going on or something, as I recall.
Something happened that just makes me more confused.
ANyway, I think last is pretty damn town at the moment. Even so there's the thought in the back of my head, that he is setting me up as connected to him in case he flips scum, but that would require him to actually be scum.
I'm really liking silver analysis of stuff. I don't agree with some of it, but I like it. Just this nacho post feels pretty natural without any clear agenda. I'd expect scum silver to move the needle to scum or to town, not just say "not lynching today".
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Here comes Tom in control
Women dig his scumreads and his gallant stroll
Ate opponents brains
And invented cocaine
He's coming
He's coming
He's coming PTAP
sorry my wim is currently dead because of things that have nothing to do with this game
killjoy can be town I guess, his effort definitely feels townie, still hate some of his questions
I really dislike the tone of Shadow's wall since it just feels too fluffy for 10 pages in
questions are shallow
Honestly, he could've avoided saying anything all together and I'd think he look better than he does right now
Silver just feels soooooooooooooooooo helpful? and friendly? it just bothers me
I want him to tunnel someone
nacho is being super transparent with his thoughts, I think it'd take a lot to get me to vote there today if he stays on his current path
I guess I can get behind Asta sounding pure, but it absolutely says nothing about his alignment
Mindreaver calling out Vezok for having surface level reads is ???
given that Vezok tends to live on the surface level with his thoughts and pushes
this train is actually better, and Idk why it died
Something happened that just makes me more confused.
ANyway, I think last is pretty damn town at the moment. Even so there's the thought in the back of my head, that he is setting me up as connected to him in case he flips scum, but that would require him to actually be scum.
I'm really liking silver analysis of stuff. I don't agree with some of it, but I like it. Just this nacho post feels pretty natural without any clear agenda. I'd expect scum silver to move the needle to scum or to town, not just say "not lynching today".
this is also a pretty elaborate thought process to fake if vezok is a wolf, the first paragraph at least
Refusing to answer questions feels bad no matter the alignment. Unless it's a joke question, answers are always going to help town, so I side-eye folks who outright ignore questions. It's why I actually went ahead and answered some questions about me or what have you even though I was still 3 pages behind.
-snip-
Kind of not bothered by early scumreads of me because I know I haven't been active. Trying to fix that today and maybe throw out some questions.
This explains the post I was bothered by. Asta back to null, maybe even lean town.
I like fulcrum more and more. I don't know why she'd try to provide so many reasonable propositions for why I acted the way I did if she was scum.
KCC voting fulcrum feels ???? I don't feel like that post is smearing tom. Fulcrum is asking a question to another person and not really attacking tom. I also agree that tom's gimmick makes his post unreadable. I skipped all of them simply because I have no idea what he is trying to say in them. I only read the bolded parts. Don't feel like tom's scum though. He does these gimmicks all the time and drops them when stuff becomes serious.
Vezok likes defending Fulcrum a lot.
And then this answer by Fulcrum:
I like fulcrum more and more. I don't know why she'd try to provide so many reasonable propositions for why I acted the way I did if she was scum.
Uhh,I could have been trying to pocket you? Have you never been pocketed?
I can definitely see them aligned.
With that pocket remark, Fulcrum being scum without Vezok being a buddy would be very strange. Why would scum ever confess pocketing to town?
Axel’s #364 makes me think we just have very opposing views on mafia. I’m still bothered by his semi-RVS and gimmick handling, but I’m going to wait and see.
My early reads are often good though. I’m conflicted.
I do know he becomes very strong later in the game if he’s town, so lynching him now on what is mainly a gutread is probably a bad idea. unvote
I'm seeing Tom saying that Nacho seems anxious, since that's word that kept popping up in the rap. Or maybe he's calling Nacho paranoid, and that's towny, because of the "Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me,"
, +I'm a little manic, I just wanna see your big smile
If you ain't ecstatic I feel like I blew it big time
If I got so many wrong, then Fulcrum is right and tom isn't as clear as I thought he was.
Anyways, his reads are bolded. Even though his reasoning isn’t always as clear, we know his worldview.
Your read strength on Silver seems a bit overblown for the reasoning that you gave - I also townread smooth responses, but a little bit of banter in the very beginning of the game isn't enough for a full blown townread... is it? What do you think of his Asta suspicion based on them holding back on the RVS vote? What do you think of his M1ndreaver read?
I was suspicious of Asta too. I don’t agree with his mindreaver read, but since he has me as scum, seeing someone mindmeld with me must feel suspicious, so
My main reason for the townread is the combination of him answering like that to Shadow in RVS and more importantly him scumreading me for my “weird” posting.
People not understanding my thought process is why I get mislynched all the time, and the first one to go there is usually town: scum latch on to town afterwards.
Quote from Nacho »
What do you mean by saying that "Nacho gets more flak for that reaction" in your read on LW? One thing that I liked from LW re: talking about tom's gimmick is attacking it and then saying that he didn't like the way that either Axel or Sloth did it. The entire reason why I think scum might attack tom's gimmick is because it's an easy hit and also hard to argue with (it is almost irrefutably anti-town, after all), but LW attacking the others who did so means that he ends up alienating himself from the allies that he would have but he's still attacking it so he risks drawing the ire of TeamTom(tm) as well.
That I wanted to scumread LW for attacking you, but he isn’t the only one, so the attack in itself becomes NAI unless the whole scumteam decides to jump on you there.
Do you agree LW is probably town? Attacking both sides would be pretty bad scum play.
Quote from Nacho »
Wrt Vaimes read, I don't think his early attack on me was an attack on low-hanging fruit - we've played together enough where even if I come out of the gate a bit awkward I really don't think that translates to him thinking he can get me lynched if scum.
ok
Quote from Nacho »
Why is Axel choosing a semi-serious RVS target bothersome? Why is him confirming his initial read based on KCC's posts bad?
Scum can feel awkward placing RVS votes and often look for sort of a reason behind them. Town hardly ever goes there and just has fun with the votes.
Confirming his “read” later on is staying in the safe zone of pushing the RVS vote so he doesn’t have to move it to someone else.
Rhand's post didn't really move the needle for me, no. It's a good post but it doesn't really resolve the weirdness, I'll have to iso him later toDay and try to explain what it is... but I think it's more natural for him to try to win me over than OMGUS me especially after Eurovision lol, and the rest of the reads are like... reasonable but nothing that I really think he wouldn't/couldn't make as a wolf.
Welp, there’s no way I’m getting caught up anywhere close to soon. I’m in disaster recovering mode at work since Friday, and on call perpetually, so I’m not even gonna try, since it’s either get sleep or backread 250 posts; someone give me the quick and dirty or what’s gone down since around post 100, with some color commentary. Most entertaining/useful answer gets something special
It's day 1. You missed almost nothing. KCC claimed a scummy role and nacho tried some rolefishing to get to claim. KCC refused.
Otherwise it's just people bickering about unimportant stuff.
This post… 398 posts in the game and you think there’s nothing?
Rhand has too many townreads. Rhand: Talk to me about Axel a bit. Why is his attitude towards tom's gimmick scummy?
Why is Asta scum?
Also talk to me about Axel's 308 as well.
I think I covered all of that already in this post.
Too many townreads though? It is an early reads post, so some of them will probably still change. But finding town is a big part of solving the game, and I am better at that early game than later on when there's real fights going on.
I did just solve Watchmen Wanted on page 2 by correctly identifying all the town. You should know that… you were one of them?
If you mean 300, I don't find that kind of post very easy to read into personally. The physical experience I get when reading it is that Rhand is slowly pouring a pot full of cold soup over my head to the tune of Peralta's "singing voice". The narration of events is indistinguishable from what I think? is meant to be analysis? and it all just ends up as noise. It's also confusing when people just say "town" or "scum" with no degree of confidence (y'all seem to do that a lot here), my reads are always mapped to a scale of 0-100 and I don't know how I'm supposed to pretend to understand what "town" means for other people with no other information. Sorry that's probably not a very satisfactory answer.
I was hoping my degree of confidence is clear in what I wrote about them?
My main reasons of making posts like this is to show my worldview to the world and to have a post to look back to myself later on because my early reads are often better than the later ones where I’ve been influenced.
I think some time away will probably do me good, anyways - did get the chance to read KCC's recent scumgame (Watchmen, like 7 pages long or I wouldn't have bothered) and most of her posting seemed very agenda-driven, she talked about being a bit nervous at the onset... Doesn't strike me as the type to launch a gambit like the "scummy role" bit...?
But that's just giving me more townreads which genuinely makes me want to kick something.
I’m amazed at how our thinking process works the same way. As well as the amazing ability of formulating stuff in such a way that people vote us for it.
Nacho is floundering and voting in random places. I'm waiting for Nacho to find his feet and make a push he believes in. By helping him push in things he's ambivalent about, I'm helping that process along. Vaimes is along for the ride because he knows how delicious a good wagon is. Haven't liked anything dk's done, no opposition to voting him.
Is that town!Vaimes? Would scum!Vaimes fake this to get on your good side?
It bothers me that I don’t have a read on Dkings/Fulcrum/Shadow at all now that they’ve started posting. Especially Shadow. I’m generally good at reading him and he’s just not pinging me in any direction. Last game I played with Dkings he radiated town to the point he got Daykilled by scum and I’m not getting that here either.
Slothful seems to have disappeared.
Sorry about my walls. In a game this size it's either that or multi-posting :/
me: I think I'm starting to warm up to feeling good about townreads on Vaimes and Killjoy
everyone else: I have so many townreads, what a problem
i'm very glad that you invited me to play this game.
I'm at a computer now and also very tired. I'm going to get a little drunk and try to flesh out some of my reads a little better so I can easier sort what townreads I have good confidence in vs what townreads I need to let go. i'm not currently concerned with answering things directed to me but i will double back to them once i've slept and woke up again.
So I don't think that I have a great handle on Vaimes-specific tells, and I don't think that I have any special insight on him that anyone else would have - what I know about his scum game is that he very strongly dislikes playing scum and that means that his scum range is smaller than normal and that means that he's very likely to fall off later in the game if he's scum. I've found that I can very often underestimate people who approach the game like this which means that they slip through my radar, so Gemma's endorsement of the slot means quite a bit to me.
The piece of Vaimes that strikes me as the towniest is that part that I've complained about the most - namely, his push on me. My impression of his play as scum (again, keep in mind that I can't recall seeing him as scum recently and that this is a hazy memory and is mostly assumptions based on the "dislikes playing scum bit") is that he makes moves in order to stay alive as opposed to making moves to generate towncred, and attacking me to the level that he did is an odd choice for Vaimes as scum simply because it can backfire and I don't think that Vaimes as scum is confident enough to survive me attacking him. I would not feel so strongly about this if Vaimes didn't sell the "I am convinced I found the scumteam" as hard as he did - it's one thing to point out some logical inconsistencies, but it's another to put your conviction on the line in the way he did.
So, if I'm wrong on Vaimes, it's because I'm underestimating him/because I'm egotistical and think that he thinks more highly of me than he does. I still expect to see him flesh out multiple pushes on multiple people today and I expect to see him land somewhere with that nice juicy Vaimes conviction, but it would take a strange series of events to make me consider voting here.
Gemma's endorsement of the slot means quite a bit to me.
Am not endorsing the slot. I have him at 85/15 chance to be town/mafia. I haven't reread him and am really still in first impressions land with him. Pretty much entire read is based on his push on you.
yeah okay this thinking thing really isn't happening. but if i wanted to kill four people right now. those four people would be:
Slothful
dkingsland967
fulcrum
shadowlancerx
and i'm pretty confident that i'd kill some bad people when doing so!
i'm worried because that list is currently (some lurkers + fulcrum) which is why i need to take some time thinking on individuals long enough where the town blobs become more distinguishable, but i'll get there eventually. maybe i'll answer some questions!
I was suspicious of Asta too. I don’t agree with his mindreaver read, but since he has me as scum, seeing someone mindmeld with me must feel suspicious, so
My main reason for the townread is the combination of him answering like that to Shadow in RVS and more importantly him scumreading me for my “weird” posting.
I...... I could just be wacked out but I have no mindreaver read nor even a read on you, let alone a scumread. Did you mean Axel?
Anyways, for analysis on my vote: first day is chaos and nonsense. I'll try to get a general feel on some folks but I don't have a hope of getting a read I feel comfortable with on more than two or three people at my current ability so I'd just as soon wait until we get some more information.
Even if that information is "don't necessarily listen to X or Y" because whoops we did a mislynch. Anyways, I'm just kinda hopping along trying to parse what folks are saying but I still don't have a strong tie between general patterns and individuals so I'm kinda floundering a bit.
Axel’s #364 makes me think we just have very opposing views on mafia. I’m still bothered by his semi-RVS and gimmick handling, but I’m going to wait and see.
Hey, I'm always open to discussing opposing views in Mafia and pointing out why you're wrong.
People not understanding my thought process is why I get mislynched all the time, and the first one to go there is usually town: scum latch on to town afterwards.
What I'm not caring for atm is the speculative teambuilding. I don't see how you link people at this stage. You maybe conclude two people probably aren't scum together, but that's about as far as I think you can go D1 with no flips.
Last game I played with Dkings he radiated town to the point he got Daykilled by scum and I’m not getting that here either.
No he didn't. He was suspected to the point that Tom-scum was able to openly shoot him and get away with it scott-free.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
And it kind of knocks a Last/Silver team out of the park, probably.
You don't have a reaction to LW's vote on you?
Gemma: That's the thing I was trying to point out: someone on the scumteam knows me well enough to warn the scum off me. So it's not exactly all in team[X].
Some of your questions just feel like filler, and there are two questions I can vaguely remember that just look weird as *****, I'll pull them out when I get home though
you're a real boy.
I mostly ask questions that don't seem to go anywhere and poke stuff on D1
It's the slowest, worst bit of the game for me
We need more no-kill night starts or something
Anyway we just had a kind of back and forth but you gave me the boring, consistent answers so I don't really have anything else for you.
Kind of think you might be a villager but I have other stronger villager reads, so
Maybe it's something like Rhand/shadow/Mindreaver/+1 which is kind of where I'm at at the present moment because everyone else feels villagery to a greater or lesser extent
Was mindreaver ever a train?
If you iso me I have a post with his peak wagon (3) in a spoiler block, it's just 3 spoilers with "Hum."
It got dismantled and Axelrod was pushed up pretty shortly after the peak
everyone else: I have so many townreads, what a problem
My other reads are like, "seems like a villager but not out of what I believe to be their wolf range" sorted by how villagery they appear with the team I listed at the bottom because they don't feel like villagers when I read their posts or they don't actually have posts to read
Vezok kinda belongs to that group too I guess
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StaffAnyway, Vez, I did enjoy your answer to me about summing up the thread, so thanks for that.
I’m just gonna grab things as I see them I think.
@sIlver: not that I’m one to talk, but you’ve actually been present in the thread, how do you only have 2 town reads?
@gemma: who are you specifically not town reading?
(The temptation to just ignore Last after that chagrin post about being ignored is rather high, would be funny)
@Nacho: what is your first impression on KJ not reacting to a vote on him, think he should have?
Oh, I apparently am still voting silver, heh
Unvote
Guess RVS is sort of over.
Someone give me the quick and easy on DK.
I’m actually agreeing with Vaimes, if a single 4 wagon is the biggest so far, then this game is significantly slower in votes compared to the past few large games.
~~~~~
That’s a good start I think. If you want my specific thoughts on something, hit me up with a quote and a question.
Also this is gonna be all over the place sorry in advance
I'm going to start with, I think his explanation for his push on me is ~fine. I can totally see town!Nacho thinking what he says he thought and doing what he did.
And I mostly like his read on me. It's like, naturally... paced? I said this about sloth earlier but it's just true; when I read the stuff he's writing about me I can see the cogs turning in his mind as he reads my posts for stuff he thinks is AI and tries to sort me. He went back after Fulcrum pointed out that his initial reason for townreading me was based on something I didn't do and reaffirmed it even though he had a perfectly valid reason to drop me back to null.
Maybe shadow, tom, or someone told him I'm much easier to pocket by town reading than I am to mislunch or something, I suppose, but it just doesn't really seem like something he decided to do that he then went back and tried to justify.
I don't ~really understand the Mindreaver read in #260. I don't think anyone was saying that the way Mindreaver's self meta was delivered was townie (it wasn't) and if the self meta is true (it is as far as I'm aware) then he hasn't actually left his scum range yet and can't use his activity as a defense. This doesn't really need a response/clarification, it just reads like weird shade and is so noted.
There's an indignant tone in his Vezok response in #250 that I like, and his tone throughout is kind of like... confident but not aggressive? The posts themselves feel a little manipulative but I get the sense that he's trying to solve and wants the space to do that, not trying to steer the thread off a cliff.
So, yeah. He's a capable wolf (I played against him in Horsemen, I believe?) but I don't really want to lunch him. Probably goes with Axelrod at the bottom of my town leans?
Good luck Mindreaver!
@Shadow: There isn't really a quick and easy on DK, Gemma and Vaimes seem to be sheeping Nacho wherever he goes and Nacho voted him because he wasn't happy with his Axel vote anymore. And... yeah, that's it, that's the wagon. Asta voted with a comment about having no idea what was going on or something, as I recall.
I only have two reads that are strong enough to call "town reads", as I said, I have a handful of -- actually, just have this
Silvercrys3467
Killjoy
Vaimes
Slothful / Gemma
Axelrod / Nachomamma8
tomsloger
KittyCupCake
dkingsland967 / Asta / Lastwhisper
fulcrum / shadowlancerx
vezokpiraka
Rhand / M1ndreaver
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StaffWho are you voting then and why?
Everyone who isn't Vaimes, Killjoy, Nacho, Silver, or tom, I guess?
His general mood is kind of... someone who knows the answers, is the most concise way I can think to put it. Don't know if it's just a personality thing.
Vezok has been the designated counter-wagon to the basically identical Axel and dk wagons, I guess, and I've been thinking about switching to Mindreaver but I want to see his catch up first.
ANyway, I think last is pretty damn town at the moment. Even so there's the thought in the back of my head, that he is setting me up as connected to him in case he flips scum, but that would require him to actually be scum.
I'm really liking silver analysis of stuff. I don't agree with some of it, but I like it. Just this nacho post feels pretty natural without any clear agenda. I'd expect scum silver to move the needle to scum or to town, not just say "not lynching today".
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Women dig his scumreads and his gallant stroll
Ate opponents brains
And invented cocaine
He's coming
He's coming
He's coming
PTAP
killjoy can be town I guess, his effort definitely feels townie, still hate some of his questions
I really dislike the tone of Shadow's wall since it just feels too fluffy for 10 pages in
questions are shallow
Honestly, he could've avoided saying anything all together and I'd think he look better than he does right now
Silver just feels soooooooooooooooooo helpful? and friendly? it just bothers me
I want him to tunnel someone
nacho is being super transparent with his thoughts, I think it'd take a lot to get me to vote there today if he stays on his current path
Mindreaver calling out Vezok for having surface level reads is ???
given that Vezok tends to live on the surface level with his thoughts and pushes
this train is actually better, and Idk why it died
His read on silver doesn't feel made up
Anyways going to sleep
This explains the post I was bothered by. Asta back to null, maybe even lean town.
Vezok likes defending Fulcrum a lot.
And then this answer by Fulcrum:
I can definitely see them aligned.
With that pocket remark, Fulcrum being scum without Vezok being a buddy would be very strange. Why would scum ever confess pocketing to town?
Axel’s #364 makes me think we just have very opposing views on mafia. I’m still bothered by his semi-RVS and gimmick handling, but I’m going to wait and see.
My early reads are often good though. I’m conflicted.
I do know he becomes very strong later in the game if he’s town, so lynching him now on what is mainly a gutread is probably a bad idea.
unvote
If I got so many wrong, then Fulcrum is right and tom isn't as clear as I thought he was.
Anyways, his reads are bolded. Even though his reasoning isn’t always as clear, we know his worldview.
I was suspicious of Asta too. I don’t agree with his mindreaver read, but since he has me as scum, seeing someone mindmeld with me must feel suspicious, so
My main reason for the townread is the combination of him answering like that to Shadow in RVS and more importantly him scumreading me for my “weird” posting.
People not understanding my thought process is why I get mislynched all the time, and the first one to go there is usually town: scum latch on to town afterwards.
That I wanted to scumread LW for attacking you, but he isn’t the only one, so the attack in itself becomes NAI unless the whole scumteam decides to jump on you there.
Do you agree LW is probably town? Attacking both sides would be pretty bad scum play.
ok
Scum can feel awkward placing RVS votes and often look for sort of a reason behind them. Town hardly ever goes there and just has fun with the votes.
Confirming his “read” later on is staying in the safe zone of pushing the RVS vote so he doesn’t have to move it to someone else.
You’ve got my meta all backwards here.
This post… 398 posts in the game and you think there’s nothing?
vote Vezok
I think I covered all of that already in this post.
Too many townreads though? It is an early reads post, so some of them will probably still change. But finding town is a big part of solving the game, and I am better at that early game than later on when there's real fights going on.
I did just solve Watchmen Wanted on page 2 by correctly identifying all the town. You should know that… you were one of them?
I was hoping my degree of confidence is clear in what I wrote about them?
My main reasons of making posts like this is to show my worldview to the world and to have a post to look back to myself later on because my early reads are often better than the later ones where I’ve been influenced.
I’m amazed at how our thinking process works the same way. As well as the amazing ability of formulating stuff in such a way that people vote us for it.
Is that town!Vaimes? Would scum!Vaimes fake this to get on your good side?
It bothers me that I don’t have a read on Dkings/Fulcrum/Shadow at all now that they’ve started posting. Especially Shadow. I’m generally good at reading him and he’s just not pinging me in any direction. Last game I played with Dkings he radiated town to the point he got Daykilled by scum and I’m not getting that here either.
Slothful seems to have disappeared.
Sorry about my walls. In a game this size it's either that or multi-posting :/
i'm very glad that you invited me to play this game.
I'm at a computer now and also very tired. I'm going to get a little drunk and try to flesh out some of my reads a little better so I can easier sort what townreads I have good confidence in vs what townreads I need to let go. i'm not currently concerned with answering things directed to me but i will double back to them once i've slept and woke up again.
Vaimes
Killjoy
Silver
Nacho
Last
Asta
tom
vezok
Sloth/mind/shadow/dk/KCC/Axel [null]
fulcrum
Rhand
The piece of Vaimes that strikes me as the towniest is that part that I've complained about the most - namely, his push on me. My impression of his play as scum (again, keep in mind that I can't recall seeing him as scum recently and that this is a hazy memory and is mostly assumptions based on the "dislikes playing scum bit") is that he makes moves in order to stay alive as opposed to making moves to generate towncred, and attacking me to the level that he did is an odd choice for Vaimes as scum simply because it can backfire and I don't think that Vaimes as scum is confident enough to survive me attacking him. I would not feel so strongly about this if Vaimes didn't sell the "I am convinced I found the scumteam" as hard as he did - it's one thing to point out some logical inconsistencies, but it's another to put your conviction on the line in the way he did.
So, if I'm wrong on Vaimes, it's because I'm underestimating him/because I'm egotistical and think that he thinks more highly of me than he does. I still expect to see him flesh out multiple pushes on multiple people today and I expect to see him land somewhere with that nice juicy Vaimes conviction, but it would take a strange series of events to make me consider voting here.
Slothful
dkingsland967
fulcrum
shadowlancerx
and i'm pretty confident that i'd kill some bad people when doing so!
i'm worried because that list is currently (some lurkers + fulcrum) which is why i need to take some time thinking on individuals long enough where the town blobs become more distinguishable, but i'll get there eventually. maybe i'll answer some questions!
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Is it something I said?
Why are you so focused on Fulcrum?
I...... I could just be wacked out but I have no mindreaver read nor even a read on you, let alone a scumread. Did you mean Axel?
Anyways, for analysis on my vote: first day is chaos and nonsense. I'll try to get a general feel on some folks but I don't have a hope of getting a read I feel comfortable with on more than two or three people at my current ability so I'd just as soon wait until we get some more information.
Even if that information is "don't necessarily listen to X or Y" because whoops we did a mislynch. Anyways, I'm just kinda hopping along trying to parse what folks are saying but I still don't have a strong tie between general patterns and individuals so I'm kinda floundering a bit.
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Staff@Vez: don’t be to confused
Back to the slog for me.
What I'm not caring for atm is the speculative teambuilding. I don't see how you link people at this stage. You maybe conclude two people probably aren't scum together, but that's about as far as I think you can go D1 with no flips.
No he didn't. He was suspected to the point that Tom-scum was able to openly shoot him and get away with it scott-free.