Silvercrys - why do you no longer really want to lynch me after me catching up, which I feel like any sub would do? I didn't really get the impression that you wanted to lynch Mind for inactivity, it felt more like a "either just lynch him, or circle back to the slot after subbed."
vezok, that's actually kind of funny because I'd been skimming your posts from a solving standpoint since picking up that you'd claimed from realtime.
I think that post underscores vezok's towniness wrt the claim in that I feel like a mafia might feel a bit ridiculous pressuring someone with the stated reason that they're looking into a nonexistent partner, especially when she'd know that I'm not doing that given she'd know I'm town and what I've said about her partner, whereas it's a more natural thought for a town looking at the thread through the lens of her claim.
What I'm saying about Asta is that like, it'd be his second game as mafia, he sees someone claim and get cleared by multiple people for it and if I'm right on vezok he knows she's got no reason to lie, and he takes this tack of stubborn resistance anyway? It doesn't really gel to me, it'd draw unnecessary negative attention from vezok. It makes more sense to me from a somewhat paranoid and unselfconscious new town player.
Asta, who is she suspecting for targeting her by using the claim as a shield? I'd say I'm doing the opposite of targeting her.
Also, Wisp - you didn't misread me in g8 or hydra d1, and maybe now you know better about Greenblood types? I might be misinterpreting what you're saying but don't feel like you can't or shouldn't read me.
I don't think her read on Grape is that scummy. I had similar not w/w thoughts between her and Grape, for a possible TMI aspect, but I don't know whether in a w/v world she'd be the type to instead fake suspicion that Grape was faking a derpclear or something like that.
Vote stays on Axel. Keldeo should ask me specific questions or dump his read now, because at present there's nothing really for me to do. I know who I want to lunch, I have my townreads, and I'm not really all that inspired to fight with people about my play this game.
So... Axelrod. Not quoting a lot of stuff because I don't really feel like it, his iso's only three pages.
I intially townread him for his early KCC push that I thought was trying to break RVS. It's a bit weaker since he admits he wasn't actually trying to do that, just poking, but that ~kind of reinforces the read. As a wolf I think he might try to take the credit I was giving him instead of admitting he didn't do that, though that's rather small, of course. It doesn't really read like theater, either, seems really weird to go after a partner's gambit like that (though day chat, I guess. Still lean towards not w/w though.)
This back and forth with Nacho has a weird edge in it that I don't think comes from partners, either.
In fact, most of his posts/interactions have this kind of sardonic/condescending tone that I associate with some experienced villagers. He's like, incredulous about how people could think some way other than he does. It's very prickly and trying to like, wrap his head around why other people are so wrong. It's not a very good style for wolves because it's not very effective at manipulating people.
His read on me is consistent with players who haven't played with me before, people get weird vibes from my posts and I feel like his "trying to get Mindreaver lunched so sneaky no trust" read is the same kind of thing where my posts feel unnatural/uncanny to him and he's trying to find a reason for it.
I dunno, it's still not a strong read but I don't really think he's a wolf. His pushes don't feel coordinated.
The biggest thing that makes me uneasy is that he isn't really posting about his reads much just picking through the thread. Like his two biggest wolf reads seem to be KCC and Mindreaver, and he hasn't really evolved his KCC read that I can see, he's just tunneling from RVS and he's interrogating her activity level but she has just as many posts as he does.
I didn't townread his KCC vote, nor did I really feel that his vote broke RVS.
The spoiler is blank when I click it. But I briefly went over how I felt about his interactions with Nacho - namely that it feels like he should be scumreading him, but is holding back for some reason. I don't know if it makes more sense as w/v or w/w. Last one seems like pointlessly risky distancing.
Have you seen Axel as a wolf? You're reading his tone as something experienced villagers do. Do you know that this tone isn't just his personality that would be carried over into his scumgame, even if he weren't doing it on purpose?
By the way, when I talk about KJ being wrong about me every time, I am not exaggerating.
In every single game this year where we played together, he was town. And in every single one he got my alignment wrong. He towncleared me when I was mafia and lynched me when I was town. Every time.
Him being this sure of my alignment on Day 1 makes no sense whatsoever after all of that.
This is something that always makes me sideye KJ, but so far he's been town every single time he does it. He acts confident about stuff when it seems like he has no business doing so.
I don't think I've ever seen a scumgame of his, but I kinda think he wouldn't do this kind of thing. I find that it's a lot easier to fake bravado when you're a villager, because a town role PM feels like a safety net.
I didn't townread his KCC vote, nor did I really feel that his vote broke RVS.
The spoiler is blank when I click it. But I briefly went over how I felt about his interactions with Nacho - namely that it feels like he should be scumreading him, but is holding back for some reason. I don't know if it makes more sense as w/v or w/w. Last one seems like pointlessly risky distancing.
Have you seen Axel as a wolf? You're reading his tone as something experienced villagers do. Do you know that this tone isn't just his personality that would be carried over into his scumgame, even if he weren't doing it on purpose?
I don't know that it isn't just his personality but... yeah, I dunno, his read on me feels sincere and I'm not reading him as positioning the way you are, I guess.
I'm coming around on Asta. There is no reason to continue saying she doesn't believe me if she is scum, because then it's pretty clear that I'm town from that perspective.
Except that I'm not sure if such a new player understands the implications of a mason claim even from a scum perspective.
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There isn't much to say. She softclaimed a scummy ability, and I kind of want to see what it is. Can't do that if she's dead. And I don't have a strong enough scumread on her to push it.
Nacho read hasn't developed much. I scumread his entrance and first handful of posts, I kind of liked his later engagement/posts and moved him up a bit. Then I found a weird contradiction I asked him about, but since then he's been popping in telling us not to lunch anyone and that he'd be here later.
How do you mean with the last part? Comparing my read on Nacho's to Axel's?
Actually, I take that back a tiny bit. KCC is on the towny side of null.
But I also think I'm still getting a feel for her range. I have yet to see what she's capable of as scum. I hear she was scum in a micro with Rhand and KJ recently, but I generally don't read slash care about micros.
Hey Vaimes,
Let's say, theoretically, I'm not connecting with the game, don't really feel convinced of my vote or voting anywhere else, and really just want someone to show up with a case I can agree with and push forward. Could you help me with that?
There isn't much to say. She softclaimed a scummy ability, and I kind of want to see what it is. Can't do that if she's dead. And I don't have a strong enough scumread on her to push it.
Nacho read hasn't developed much. I scumread his entrance and first handful of posts, I kind of liked his later engagement/posts and moved him up a bit. Then I found a weird contradiction I asked him about, but since then he's been popping in telling us not to lunch anyone and that he'd be here later.
How do you mean with the last part? Comparing my read on Nacho's to Axel's?
Sorry, huh? Wouldn't she claim the role before being lynched, or it'd flip if and when she did? I thought roles will flip since the flavor at SOD had one.
Alright. I was wondering, given your read on Nacho, what you think Axel is positioning for there. I saw you talked a little bit about it but it was kind of brief.
Oh, that I thought Axel should be scumreading Nacho based on the tone of the interactions, but had Nacho as like, leaning town in his list because he seemed sincere or something.
I want to see her role while she is still alive, so waiting for her to flip is kind of counter-productive.
Also, anyone who cares to remember, when was the last time anyone got lunched on Day 1 more than three days before deadline? I don't think I've ever been in a game where the Day 1 deadline wasn't looming.
Oh, that I thought Axel should be scumreading Nacho based on the tone of the interactions, but had Nacho as like, leaning town in his list because he seemed sincere or something.
I want to see her role while she is still alive, so waiting for her to flip is kind of counter-productive.
Yeah, I get that. What I'm asking is, does your read on Nacho have any bearing on that observation? This question would probably be more relevant after Nacho is able to catch up.
Okay. I don't really get why you want to see it while she's alive but I'll leave it, I don't think it means anything.
This is a really solid point, and Slothful's disappearing act doesn't look great for that slot considering both Gemma and fulcrum said they believed he could be active if he wanted to be.
Until it became known that he had IRL issues. Scumreading him for that is a bad idea regardless.
Erm... what happened here?
That is called nuance. There is a difference between scumreading someone and having no reason not to lynch them.
I kind of liked M1nd's pop-in post (one of the last he made before he disappeared). In particular, his thought process wrt to KJ criticizing his "all the active people can't be town" entry has some depth to it, and the post comes across as natural and trying to figure things out as opposed to production for the sake of production in that it's a sort of genuine rambling mess and not him trying to make a push on someone that he thinks others will buy.
I also really don't think that M1nd as scum ever makes 602 like ever? Like that's a pretty deep gap from what I remember from a very milquetoast scumgame. Him attacking KJ the post before and then starting to rare up an attack on me (and all the active players at that point in time) just seems like the absolute opposite of attacking LHF and, again, not something coming from the m1nd scumgame that I'm familiar with.
@Last: I don't think M1nd's reasoning for saying that your entrance here was the towniest he's seen in a while matters at this point.
a
Mindreaver's post is a bit villagery for him, I think.
Still waiting for analysis from him but... I dunno I think wolf version of that post has a different tone to it.
I don't think that M1ndreaver as scum attempts to make a version of that post. LW seems to be reading him through the lens of "is this a post that I could fake as scum?" as opposed to "is this a post that M1nd could fake as scum?" which leaves some blind spots when LW and M1nd prolly couldn't be more different from one another.
But his trigger stayed cold I wasn't surprised
I recognized that fast breathin' and fear in his eyes
A sheep in wolf's clothing, unmask his disguise vezok scum
Don't understand what triggered the push here.
Was it vezok's "I support LW in all endeavors post or was it something else"?
but it's also possible I'm overly sensitive to it since I got mislynched very very recently because I didn't play damage control properly with one townie who had stubborn suspicion of me and had visions of that happening yet again.
The "don't lynch me because it's my first game back on this site!!!" was trollish banter - I've already made my return and don't care more than usual about being lynched here.
Hey Nacho, I was starting to feel better about you, but this made me wince. I swear I'm not trying to nitpick, I just happened to notice these when rereading. Clarify for me?
I'm not sure what you want clarified.
In the last game I played on MafiaScum, there was one townie who is a good player who I used to play with often. He was convinced I was scum for the entire game - I treated it in the usual way (ignored him, did my own thing). I got speedlynched by him + silly town + scum. I don't plan on letting that happen hence dealing with the suspicion in a bit more direct and confrontational way. That doesn't mean I'll be emotionally distraught or annoyed if I am lynched any more than usual. It's not liked getting mislynched is the most fun thing in the entire way in the world, but the assertion that this being my first game back on this site should give me honorary lynchproof was not at all a serious one.
Re: Gemma's Rhand Thoughts: While I agree with you that Rhand's "why would scum confess to pocketing town?" line is weird and misguided, I do very firmly believe that it's something that Rhand would come up with as town. I also feel it would be more likely that Rhand would be trying to tie a townie to his partner with his "scum defending scum" line and feel that scenario is significantly less likely with vezok's mason claim.
@Silver's Rhand Read:
I don't think that Rhand's approach to me or tom is particularly scum. I do agree that he saw himself a bit too strongly in both of us, but the way he did so seemed genuine. If he were scum, I think there'd be a clearer agenda behind it, but it doesn't seem like he was trying to buddy either of us (no fake mindmelding), and neither of us at the time were popular townreads who also hadn't been under fire at that point, so don't really understand what he was trying to accomplish there as scum. What do you mean when you call his read on you "soft"?
Except that I'm not sure if such a new player understands the implications of a mason claim even from a scum perspective.
Daychat would fix that, unless they specifically told Asta to keep acting like he had no information.
Unless we’re facing a completely inactive scumteam.
I’m not voting Vaimes toDay unless he’s the only possibility for a deadline lynch.
And let’s not go to a deadline lynch? We want time to reassess after a claim. It’s time to consolidate and get the D1 end going.
Not Voting(6) - Jackrito, Axelrod, Killjoy, Lastwhisper, Silvercrys, Keldeo
Day One ends on December 7th at 4PM PST
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
Jackrito has one more day to respond to the prod before I seek replacement
Grape >> Axel = Keldeo > tom > KCC = Vaimes for me in the existing wagons.
Outside this, I would be ok with KJ, maybe Nacho, Fulcrum, the Shadow / Mind replacements.
Wait, by when exactly should we be attempting to consolidate? I thought it'd be fine to do so closer to deadline. (I've never played phases this long before)
I kind of liked M1nd's pop-in post (one of the last he made before he disappeared). In particular, his thought process wrt to KJ criticizing his "all the active people can't be town" entry has some depth to it, and the post comes across as natural and trying to figure things out as opposed to production for the sake of production in that it's a sort of genuine rambling mess and not him trying to make a push on someone that he thinks others will buy.
I also really don't think that M1nd as scum ever makes 602 like ever? Like that's a pretty deep gap from what I remember from a very milquetoast scumgame. Him attacking KJ the post before and then starting to rare up an attack on me (and all the active players at that point in time) just seems like the absolute opposite of attacking LHF and, again, not something coming from the m1nd scumgame that I'm familiar with.
@Last: I don't think M1nd's reasoning for saying that your entrance here was the towniest he's seen in a while matters at this point.
a
Mindreaver's post is a bit villagery for him, I think.
Still waiting for analysis from him but... I dunno I think wolf version of that post has a different tone to it.
I don't think that M1ndreaver as scum attempts to make a version of that post. LW seems to be reading him through the lens of "is this a post that I could fake as scum?" as opposed to "is this a post that M1nd could fake as scum?" which leaves some blind spots when LW and M1nd prolly couldn't be more different from one another.
Way to make me feel paranoid that you're partners with Keldeo, jerk.
Wait, by when exactly should we be attempting to consolidate? I thought it'd be fine to do so closer to deadline. (I've never played phases this long before)
Wait, by when exactly should we be attempting to consolidate? I thought it'd be fine to do so closer to deadline. (I've never played phases this long before)
Like, now ish.
Oof, okay. I'll be back in like 8 hours to finish catching up, then.
I'm not really a fan of KCC's #740. She posts that she's in the process of catching up, says that she's more than happy to address any off-hand things in the mean time - Silver asks her to comment on top wagons, she offers a bunch of non-controversial opinions and then disappears. Seems like the perfect example of a wolfy pop-in; do just enough to make sure that everyone knows you're around, then disappear again.
Townreading Rhand's 770 pretty firmly, feels genuine as hell.
Ditto wrt Fulcrum's 794, which is probably the towniest post that I've seen her make.
It's the way KCC approached it that looks like she might be trying to pocket you. Silver hit on this as well, there was no explanation or examples, just a definitive blanket statement of "this is town KJ".
That's not how I pocket kj. My scum play also doesn't tend to include keeping people focused or diverting potential mislynches.
I do however agree with your Vez post before that
vote vez
This is also a very opportunistic hop onto the Vezok wagon - really don't like how the sum of her contribution to it so far is "i agree with what x said about vezok!". don't like that she's not really trying to figure out the alignment of anyone who she's lynching.
Very strongly townreading fulcrum as of this post.
I’ve been lazy the past couple of days with the holiday coming up. Plus people are antsy for lurkers and replacements to get involved, of which I am neither. I’m content with taking this game nice and slow.
This was a crappy response regardless of your alignment???
When someone puts a ton of effort into trying to figure out your alignment, it's much more productive if you don't just dismiss them.
Grape >> Axel = Keldeo > tom > KCC = Vaimes for me in the existing wagons.
Outside this, I would be ok with KJ, maybe Nacho, Fulcrum, the Shadow / Mind replacements.
I don't think you've commented at all on the possible townslip I saw from grape...
The way Vez went I'm going to hazzard a guess that scum didn't pile on because they were happy for town to do the work. Fulcrum, Axel, and KJ stick out for really bad not reliable theory reasons. As do Shadow and Gemma but given everything else I've read I'm happy to ignore them for now.
Tom and Axel would be fun especially if there is no day chat (seems unlikely given the presence of a Mason and DV's opinions on Day Chat) but probably a point towards those two being unaligned. Fulcrum is terrifying and I'm never going to town clear them but nowhere near enough to vote them yet. Need to reread a few of KJ's posts. I didn't take much away from them.
This was a crappy response regardless of your alignment???
When someone puts a ton of effort into trying to figure out your alignment, it's much more productive if you don't just dismiss them.
Oh? Do you know something about how much effort fulcrum put into that post? Or that more words equals town?
@Silver's Rhand Read:
I don't think that Rhand's approach to me or tom is particularly scum. I do agree that he saw himself a bit too strongly in both of us, but the way he did so seemed genuine. If he were scum, I think there'd be a clearer agenda behind it, but it doesn't seem like he was trying to buddy either of us (no fake mindmelding), and neither of us at the time were popular townreads who also hadn't been under fire at that point, so don't really understand what he was trying to accomplish there as scum. What do you mean when you call his read on you "soft"?
It felt like there wasn't enough evidence/process behind the read he was representing. I'm not really sure how to explain it just didn't feel very fleshed out.
I think KJ is scum. After all the times he was wrong about my alignment, I should be at least in his lean reads.
As town I always saw him evolve the read at least. Now he just throws me in his mafia reads.
I think he sees me as an easy “scumread“ because I always catch flak early game.
vote Killjoy
Don't think this is a vote that Rhand makes as scum, it's just a terrible move with where the game flow was at this point in time.
It's not a particularly viable mislynch and if he's taking a risk to get townread it's horrible timing because the town at this point was floating around fairly rudderless.
Like, what even is 1019 from KCC. There's been a bunch happening and she just comments on some piecemeal stuff, makes no real contribution to the game and gives no impression that she actually has a broader sense of what her solve is, how she's trying to get at the game, or that she cares about town winning at all. Everything she's been doing all game is completely irrelevant. She's not helping us win the game. So why does no one want to lynch her? Because she's a lurker? Because she softed a PR? ***** please.
I'm going to scrap my Silver suspicion for now. He's townish at least. Gemma drops a notch for sending me on that chase. Has a hint of pointing a pocketed friend at a target, but I'm still pocketed.
this is so ballsy that I almost want to call it town, almost.
i am struggling believing that grapefruit as scum comes charging at silver then immediately backs off then blames gemma for sending him on the goose chase in the first place?
Ditto wrt Fulcrum's 794, which is probably the towniest post that I've seen her make.
???
She was reminding me of meta stuff that I already knew but had forgotten because I have a terrible memory. How is this ever alignment indicative???
This was a crappy response regardless of your alignment???
When someone puts a ton of effort into trying to figure out your alignment, it's much more productive if you don't just dismiss them.
Not to mention that that post is not figuring out my alignment, and you're painting this as if we're both town, despite the "regardless of your alignment" blurb.
Feel great about killing {dk, KCC, Jack, Tom} and seeing what shakes out afterwards. I don't really think tom is scum, but I did expect to see him develop more of a process by now (a bit more waffling, a bit more paranoia) if town. I could be wrong on one or both of Keldeo & Grapefruit, but being wrong on Keldeo requires my M1ndreaver memories to be completely wrong - Grapefruit I am more likely to see but he's so all over the place that I'm pretty skeptical about it at this point.
This was a crappy response regardless of your alignment???
When someone puts a ton of effort into trying to figure out your alignment, it's much more productive if you don't just dismiss them.
Not to mention that that post is not figuring out my alignment, and you're painting this as if we're both town, despite the "regardless of your alignment" blurb.
Believing that you're both town and believing that you're being a jackass in your response are not mutually exclusive thoughts. I do think it's a lot of effort to make a post like that, sure, and I very strongly believe that it was a genuine approach; like of course you don't agree with it (it's a big post calling you scum) but that doesn't mean that fulcrum didn't put a considerable effort into it and that doesn't mean she wasn't trying to figure you out.
I swear whenever nacho gives reads, they are wolfy as *****, but when he attacks people he is full on bravado, and it kinda looks townie
@vaimes
If you are a wolf this game, I will hate myself letting you live past day 1, but given that you have this impenetrable day 1 meta armor, it's actually impossible
Ditto wrt Fulcrum's 794, which is probably the towniest post that I've seen her make.
???
She was reminding me of meta stuff that I already knew but had forgotten because I have a terrible memory. How is this ever alignment indicative???
while that post wasn't the best indication of it, I saw her come together with you in a way to understand you/to be understood that felt extraordinarily genuine. and yes, all she was doing was explaining her meta but the way that it came across was incredibly pure.
that being the towniest post i've ever seen from her is probably an overreaction based on all experiences with her that i can remember being a bit more terse and a lot less amendable/open (since the Vaimes post very shortly took that crown) buut I really really really don't think she's scum here.
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vezok, that's actually kind of funny because I'd been skimming your posts from a solving standpoint since picking up that you'd claimed from realtime.
I think that post underscores vezok's towniness wrt the claim in that I feel like a mafia might feel a bit ridiculous pressuring someone with the stated reason that they're looking into a nonexistent partner, especially when she'd know that I'm not doing that given she'd know I'm town and what I've said about her partner, whereas it's a more natural thought for a town looking at the thread through the lens of her claim.
What I'm saying about Asta is that like, it'd be his second game as mafia, he sees someone claim and get cleared by multiple people for it and if I'm right on vezok he knows she's got no reason to lie, and he takes this tack of stubborn resistance anyway? It doesn't really gel to me, it'd draw unnecessary negative attention from vezok. It makes more sense to me from a somewhat paranoid and unselfconscious new town player.
Asta, who is she suspecting for targeting her by using the claim as a shield? I'd say I'm doing the opposite of targeting her.
Also, Wisp - you didn't misread me in g8 or hydra d1, and maybe now you know better about Greenblood types? I might be misinterpreting what you're saying but don't feel like you can't or shouldn't read me.
Vote Vaimes
I don't think her read on Grape is that scummy. I had similar not w/w thoughts between her and Grape, for a possible TMI aspect, but I don't know whether in a w/v world she'd be the type to instead fake suspicion that Grape was faking a derpclear or something like that.
I think I’ve got a decent reason, or at least more decent than most anyone else right now, but I want him to post more before I talk about it.
New lunch pool:
? r Jackrito r shadowlancerx
KittyCupCake
Keldeo r M1ndreaver
Axelrod
tomsloger
Nachomamma8
fulcrum
Don't have a townread on KCC but I am not interested in lunching her Day 1.
Vote stays on Axel. Keldeo should ask me specific questions or dump his read now, because at present there's nothing really for me to do. I know who I want to lunch, I have my townreads, and I'm not really all that inspired to fight with people about my play this game.
The spoiler is blank when I click it. But I briefly went over how I felt about his interactions with Nacho - namely that it feels like he should be scumreading him, but is holding back for some reason. I don't know if it makes more sense as w/v or w/w. Last one seems like pointlessly risky distancing.
Have you seen Axel as a wolf? You're reading his tone as something experienced villagers do. Do you know that this tone isn't just his personality that would be carried over into his scumgame, even if he weren't doing it on purpose?
I don't think I've ever seen a scumgame of his, but I kinda think he wouldn't do this kind of thing. I find that it's a lot easier to fake bravado when you're a villager, because a town role PM feels like a safety net.
Which reads of his feel like positioning to you?
Except that I'm not sure if such a new player understands the implications of a mason claim even from a scum perspective.
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Could you talk a bit more about this?
Also, could you walk me through how your read on Nacho's developed, and how your current read interfaces with your observation on Axel's read there?
Nacho read hasn't developed much. I scumread his entrance and first handful of posts, I kind of liked his later engagement/posts and moved him up a bit. Then I found a weird contradiction I asked him about, but since then he's been popping in telling us not to lunch anyone and that he'd be here later.
How do you mean with the last part? Comparing my read on Nacho's to Axel's?
But I also think I'm still getting a feel for her range. I have yet to see what she's capable of as scum. I hear she was scum in a micro with Rhand and KJ recently, but I generally don't read slash care about micros.
Let's say, theoretically, I'm not connecting with the game, don't really feel convinced of my vote or voting anywhere else, and really just want someone to show up with a case I can agree with and push forward. Could you help me with that?
Alright. I was wondering, given your read on Nacho, what you think Axel is positioning for there. I saw you talked a little bit about it but it was kind of brief.
I want to see her role while she is still alive, so waiting for her to flip is kind of counter-productive.
I'm open to change.
Yeah, I get that. What I'm asking is, does your read on Nacho have any bearing on that observation? This question would probably be more relevant after Nacho is able to catch up.
Okay. I don't really get why you want to see it while she's alive but I'll leave it, I don't think it means anything.
Because I don't care about you I care about people's behavior.
I also really don't think that M1nd as scum ever makes 602 like ever? Like that's a pretty deep gap from what I remember from a very milquetoast scumgame. Him attacking KJ the post before and then starting to rare up an attack on me (and all the active players at that point in time) just seems like the absolute opposite of attacking LHF and, again, not something coming from the m1nd scumgame that I'm familiar with.
@Last: I don't think M1nd's reasoning for saying that your entrance here was the towniest he's seen in a while matters at this point.
a
I don't think that M1ndreaver as scum attempts to make a version of that post. LW seems to be reading him through the lens of "is this a post that I could fake as scum?" as opposed to "is this a post that M1nd could fake as scum?" which leaves some blind spots when LW and M1nd prolly couldn't be more different from one another.
Don't understand what triggered the push here.
Was it vezok's "I support LW in all endeavors post or was it something else"?
I'm not sure what you want clarified.
In the last game I played on MafiaScum, there was one townie who is a good player who I used to play with often. He was convinced I was scum for the entire game - I treated it in the usual way (ignored him, did my own thing). I got speedlynched by him + silly town + scum. I don't plan on letting that happen hence dealing with the suspicion in a bit more direct and confrontational way. That doesn't mean I'll be emotionally distraught or annoyed if I am lynched any more than usual. It's not liked getting mislynched is the most fun thing in the entire way in the world, but the assertion that this being my first game back on this site should give me honorary lynchproof was not at all a serious one.
Re: Gemma's Rhand Thoughts: While I agree with you that Rhand's "why would scum confess to pocketing town?" line is weird and misguided, I do very firmly believe that it's something that Rhand would come up with as town. I also feel it would be more likely that Rhand would be trying to tie a townie to his partner with his "scum defending scum" line and feel that scenario is significantly less likely with vezok's mason claim.
@Silver's Rhand Read:
I don't think that Rhand's approach to me or tom is particularly scum. I do agree that he saw himself a bit too strongly in both of us, but the way he did so seemed genuine. If he were scum, I think there'd be a clearer agenda behind it, but it doesn't seem like he was trying to buddy either of us (no fake mindmelding), and neither of us at the time were popular townreads who also hadn't been under fire at that point, so don't really understand what he was trying to accomplish there as scum. What do you mean when you call his read on you "soft"?
Unless we’re facing a completely inactive scumteam.
I’m not voting Vaimes toDay unless he’s the only possibility for a deadline lynch.
And let’s not go to a deadline lynch? We want time to reassess after a claim. It’s time to consolidate and get the D1 end going.
The last votecount:
Grape >> Axel = Keldeo > tom > KCC = Vaimes for me in the existing wagons.
Outside this, I would be ok with KJ, maybe Nacho, Fulcrum, the Shadow / Mind replacements.
Not voting is not ok in this stage of the Day.
Townreading Rhand's 770 pretty firmly, feels genuine as hell.
Ditto wrt Fulcrum's 794, which is probably the towniest post that I've seen her make.
This is also a very opportunistic hop onto the Vezok wagon - really don't like how the sum of her contribution to it so far is "i agree with what x said about vezok!". don't like that she's not really trying to figure out the alignment of anyone who she's lynching.
Very strongly townreading fulcrum as of this post.
This was a crappy response regardless of your alignment???
When someone puts a ton of effort into trying to figure out your alignment, it's much more productive if you don't just dismiss them.
I don't think you've commented at all on the possible townslip I saw from grape... Am I reading too much into this?
vote: Nacho
@rhand
U won't vote Vaimes fine, but I'm not voting any of the replacements
Come back to Nacho then
I don't hate the idea of axel, but I also dislike Vaimes, and he was pushing there
It felt like there wasn't enough evidence/process behind the read he was representing. I'm not really sure how to explain it just didn't feel very fleshed out.
Don't think this is a vote that Rhand makes as scum, it's just a terrible move with where the game flow was at this point in time.
It's not a particularly viable mislynch and if he's taking a risk to get townread it's horrible timing because the town at this point was floating around fairly rudderless.
this is exactly how i feel.
this is so ballsy that I almost want to call it town, almost.
i am struggling believing that grapefruit as scum comes charging at silver then immediately backs off then blames gemma for sending him on the goose chase in the first place?
She was reminding me of meta stuff that I already knew but had forgotten because I have a terrible memory. How is this ever alignment indicative???
Believing that you're both town and believing that you're being a jackass in your response are not mutually exclusive thoughts. I do think it's a lot of effort to make a post like that, sure, and I very strongly believe that it was a genuine approach; like of course you don't agree with it (it's a big post calling you scum) but that doesn't mean that fulcrum didn't put a considerable effort into it and that doesn't mean she wasn't trying to figure you out.
@vaimes
If you are a wolf this game, I will hate myself letting you live past day 1, but given that you have this impenetrable day 1 meta armor, it's actually impossible
while that post wasn't the best indication of it, I saw her come together with you in a way to understand you/to be understood that felt extraordinarily genuine. and yes, all she was doing was explaining her meta but the way that it came across was incredibly pure.
that being the towniest post i've ever seen from her is probably an overreaction based on all experiences with her that i can remember being a bit more terse and a lot less amendable/open (since the Vaimes post very shortly took that crown) buut I really really really don't think she's scum here.