Axelrod
Moth, Fairy Town Watcher Spring – Target a player. Learn How Many abilities targeted that player at Night
N2: Targeted KCC. No other abilities targeted KCC
Summer – Target a player. Learn Who targeted that player at night
N1: Targeted (?) No one targeted this player N1
Fall – Target a player. Learn the Names of Abilities that targeted player at Night
N3: Targeted (?) Learned names of abilities that targeted.
Winter – Target a player. Learn the First player to target the player at Night
The bold is word for word the ability I got when I targeted Killjoy.
You are saying that Killjoy traded you the exact same Spring ability that I have?
Killjoy?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I find it highly unlikely that neither Axel nor KJ have the vest, given the vest is gone from my possession and I have an ability claimed by Axel and not CC'd by anyone else. And Occam's razor says Axel is just guilty here, given KJ's play + the check on him.
I doubt there's some weird scum redirect role that would let them interfere with my trade, lift an ability from town!Axel, but take the vest for themselves. That seems way too complicated.
Sorry for not realizing this sooner. I only just now made the fairy = Axel connection and checked the claim posts, when Axel asked me to claim the ability KJ gave me.
And I did literally trade you Axel's ability. I'm not going to say why I have it. I still think I can get some use here.
But if you look back on my iso, you'll see me theorizing that a player with that exact ability is unlikely to be scum. It's because I knew he had that ability.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You understand that the way this is going, I can’t really vouch for you not claiming now that it’s revealed you stole someone else’s ability and used it to keep your own role under wraps, right?
And now I am concerned that Killjoy is copying abilities. I mean, given how we have just been speculating about how Gemma might have died from someone copying her ability...
Incidentally, Vaimes, did you even think through your vote on me there? What is the rationale? You think I didn't actually have the ability I claimed on D1, which Killjoy, you know, did not counter-claim? How exactly do I do that?
What exactly were you thinking?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
You understand that the way this is going, I can’t really vouch for you not claiming now that it’s revealed you stole someone else’s ability and used it to keep your own role under wraps, right?
Also, my ability is not stolen. Not that I have been informed.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
[quote from="KittyCupCake »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/815132-ever-changing-seasons-mafia-day-four-friendly-fall?comment=3811"]I’m this close to logging off and taking a week-long nap.
And now I am concerned that Killjoy is copying abilities. I mean, given how we have just been speculating about how Gemma might have died from someone copying her ability...
Incidentally, Vaimes, did you even think through your vote on me there? What is the rationale? You think I didn't actually have the ability I claimed on D1, which Killjoy, you know, did not counter-claim? How exactly do I do that?
What exactly were you thinking?
The alternative (that someone, somehow, copied your ability and used it to get the vest from me) sounded way too bizarre. If KJ didn't have a clear on him here, I'd be steamrolling him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy, are you going to claim Neutral ability-copier?
I think I want you to do that sooner rather than later if you are going to do that. Are you responsible for Gemma?
I have a bit of a quandary now.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@last how could I have buried Axel? Also I think Axel is town.
don't get why u wont claim
Because you gave Vaimes an ability which is the same as Axel? you have a cop check? wolf!killjoy just doesnt have to say anything, and call it unlikely to be t/t?
I remember being really irritated about Killjoy believing Axel's abilities as claimed, so this checks out a bit. Killjoy can't be scum regardless, and we need to lynch scum, not a neutral.
This is a weird situation, but I'm not sure what to make of it. Killjoy is confirmed by fulcrum so the scumteam has to be killjoy/axelrod/fulcrum for it to make sense. As in Axelrod being the daykiller and actually claiming killjoy's role, but I kinda doubt that could ever happen.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Actually that might depend on if we're allowed to say no to his items. If yes, that makes his being neutral less likely.
I feel the exact opposite. The challenge of that role would be to persuade people to make those trades. There's not really a challenge if its forced, that's just target 3 players and win.
My pet theory is that Vaimes is a neutral who leaves the game when he gives all of his items away.
Actually that might depend on if we're allowed to say no to his items. If yes, that makes his being neutral less likely.
Don't you know whether you could say no? You traded with him. Also, I think that would be a pretty bad role.
I am not thrilled with Killjoy's evasiveness. Yes, he has a "Not Mafia" check. I am finding this less and less reassuring.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I have compiled a list of claimed Actions taken this game.
I am also irritated and considering just claiming my target N3 which is probably not the correct play.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
(1) LW's "Tranquility" ability preventing N1 deaths. I dislike this because it would be choosing one night for an effect the following night. Also, what is the effect? It can't be "prevent all kills for the next cycle" because clearly it did not stop the daykill. It might be "prevent all deaths the following night, but not deaths during the day" but that seems weirdly limited to me. This might still be the most operative theory just because otherwise we have no idea what it did.
(2) fulcrum was Rbed. Fairly straightforward theory here.
(3) Scum had some ability to give up/skip the Night-kill in return for a day-kill. I find this the least likely. If the scum had an ability like that, which could be used anytime, I feel they would have used it more tactically, to try and eliminate a strong role. Shooting Gemma would have been mostly a shot in the dark. Also, would this be some kind of "collective" group ability, or one person's ability (that might only be operative in Summer). It seems weird to me that if it was a single scum's ability that it would give up the regular Factional group night-kill.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
(1) LW's "Tranquility" ability preventing N1 deaths. I dislike this because it would be choosing one night for an effect the following night. Also, what is the effect? It can't be "prevent all kills for the next cycle" because clearly it did not stop the daykill. It might be "prevent all deaths the following night, but not deaths during the day" but that seems weirdly limited to me. This might still be the most operative theory just because otherwise we have no idea what it did.
(2) fulcrum was Rbed. Fairly straightforward theory here.
(3) Scum had some ability to give up/skip the Night-kill in return for a day-kill. I find this the least likely. If the scum had an ability like that, which could be used anytime, I feel they would have used it more tactically, to try and eliminate a strong role. Shooting Gemma would have been mostly a shot in the dark. Also, would this be some kind of "collective" group ability, or one person's ability (that might only be operative in Summer). It seems weird to me that if it was a single scum's ability that it would give up the regular Factional group night-kill.
(4) Strategically nokilled to manipulate the season, similar to our reason to nolynch D1?
(1) LW's "Tranquility" ability preventing N1 deaths. I dislike this because it would be choosing one night for an effect the following night. Also, what is the effect? It can't be "prevent all kills for the next cycle" because clearly it did not stop the daykill. It might be "prevent all deaths the following night, but not deaths during the day" but that seems weirdly limited to me. This might still be the most operative theory just because otherwise we have no idea what it did.
(2) fulcrum was Rbed. Fairly straightforward theory here.
(3) Scum had some ability to give up/skip the Night-kill in return for a day-kill. I find this the least likely. If the scum had an ability like that, which could be used anytime, I feel they would have used it more tactically, to try and eliminate a strong role. Shooting Gemma would have been mostly a shot in the dark. Also, would this be some kind of "collective" group ability, or one person's ability (that might only be operative in Summer). It seems weird to me that if it was a single scum's ability that it would give up the regular Factional group night-kill.
(4) Strategically nokilled to manipulate the season, similar to our reason to nolynch D1?
I see scum choosing to No Kill speculated about a lot. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it - baring some very specific endgame situations. I would be stunned to learn the scum just gave up a free shot on N1.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I see scum choosing to No Kill speculated about a lot. I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it - baring some very specific endgame situations. I would be stunned to learn the scum just gave up a free shot on N1.
Normally I'd agree, but voluntary nolynch D1 is pretty unheard of too. I don't think it's the most likely explanation, but if there was ever a game where it could make sense, we're in it
Not a viable theory. Scum killing someone moves the season to fall or spring (idk how nacho worked). No killing leaves it in summer until we lynch someone and it skips to another season. The only way this could make sense is if scum really wanted night 2 to fall on an autumn which is the least likely option out of those presented thus far.
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Not a viable theory. Scum killing someone moves the season to fall or spring (idk how nacho worked). No killing leaves it in summer until we lynch someone and it skips to another season. The only way this could make sense is if scum really wanted night 2 to fall on an autumn which is the least likely option out of those presented thus far.
You're probably right, but it's hard to say without knowing what scum have. I just wouldn't be shocked if that's what happened.
Really, we should probably just be lynching fulcrum though. Horses not zebras. It's really just that one ability giving me pause, and that's not clearing
If fulcrum is a wolf is Keldeo cleared? I'm kinda chewing that one over right now, would he claim to have roleblocked his partner the night the kill disappeared? Obv. he would've had to have roleblocked someone else like tom and be fake claiming his target on that scenario...
If fulcrum is a wolf is Keldeo cleared? I'm kinda chewing that one over right now, would he claim to have roleblocked his partner the night the kill disappeared? Obv. he would've had to have roleblocked someone else like tom and be fake claiming his target on that scenario...
Keep in mind he claimed it before I claimed my full role.
I don't think I'm currently in a place where scum are going to shoot me, since it would confirm killjoy and I don't have the ability to use again. That was kind of the intention when I wanted to give it away, since I assumed I'd be in a better spot than Vaimes, or I'd get something useful off the track, or I'd clear myself by lynching scum. I haven't been doing my job of self clearing behaviorally. I will try to fix that.
Or I can just wait and hope Keldeo flips scum so that clears me, heh.
@kcc yeah that's also true. Apperently it is optional. It wasn't presented as such.
@axel: well you've heard my argument for not claiming. I feel like there's some potential useful info to be gathered here and that outweighs putting my role into the thread. Given that you think I'm town (that big post you made earlier, trusting fulcrum) why do you think I need to claim right this second?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm still catching up TBH and having to read so fast that it's hard for anything to stick. I also have to keep checking acronyms (boy did I feel dumb looking up NAI and RVS for the third time this month but whatever).
Early impressions
Refusing to answer questions feels bad no matter the alignment. Unless it's a joke question, answers are always going to help town, so I side-eye folks who outright ignore questions. It's why I actually went ahead and answered some questions about me or what have you even though I was still 3 pages behind.
Tom's gimmick is gonna drive me bonkers-- I can barely follow this game as-is so far, and anything other than his votes are gonna be impossible for me to even want to parse.
Kind of not bothered by early scumreads of me because I know I haven't been active. Trying to fix that today and maybe throw out some questions.
Hate that MTGS doesn't merge multiple posts by same person, didn't realize I'd enjoy that so much but it makes it way easier to realize when something has abruptly become a monologue rather than conversation.
Mostly seeing a lot of attempts to get the game moving but I'll need to review more to find any weird inconsistencies or oddball behaviors.
Like the reaction to people not liking him, feels chill. Most of this is busyworky, but that's fine for a new player at the beginning of the game.
Okay it's my usual mafia experience where I just accept that I have no reads for now and chaos will reign until we can successfully trim down the numbers. This'll be fun.
I'm gonna follow the movement and lay down a vote to get discussion going. See where this goes!
No I absolutely do not yet have a process, but I DO have fun. (Honestly trying to analyze but it's deffo overwhelming right now. I think I have Gemma/Vaimes somewhere in the vicinity of town but even they're huge question marks right now!)
Double use of "right now" plus the "honestly" feels like overcompensating. Indicates awkwardness and nerves, not necessarily scumminess.
I was suspicious of Asta too. I don’t agree with his mindreaver read, but since he has me as scum, seeing someone mindmeld with me must feel suspicious, so
My main reason for the townread is the combination of him answering like that to Shadow in RVS and more importantly him scumreading me for my “weird” posting.
I...... I could just be wacked out but I have no mindreaver read nor even a read on you, let alone a scumread. Did you mean Axel?
Anyways, for analysis on my vote: first day is chaos and nonsense. I'll try to get a general feel on some folks but I don't have a hope of getting a read I feel comfortable with on more than two or three people at my current ability so I'd just as soon wait until we get some more information.
Even if that information is "don't necessarily listen to X or Y" because whoops we did a mislynch. Anyways, I'm just kinda hopping along trying to parse what folks are saying but I still don't have a strong tie between general patterns and individuals so I'm kinda floundering a bit.
Kind of a weird interaction to have with a partner. Rhand could mix up the names easily enough while being partnered with either or both Asta and Axel, but I think Asta's weirded out reaction is fine.
I have two particularly special skills that I believe will be useful to you. The first is that I have a decent (?) rate as far as D1 scumreads go; I find that when I'm playing well as town I *usually* don't last very long, so I'm good at making an impression early. The second is that I've played dozens and dozens and dozens of mafia games with players who were playing their first/second games, so not only am I better than average at reading newer players but I'm also pretty good at teaching and pointing stuff out.
I think that you and I could benefit from a jam session - set an appointment and a time, then I'll bring some stuff up to talk about and you bring some stuff up to talk about and I promise we'll get to a place where we both don't feel as lost as we do currently. Would you be able/willing to do something like that?
Very much doubt I'll be able to manage anything like synching up my time schedule with anything else, and I wouldn't even know where to begin! I'd need time to make notes but I doubt I would even be able to make anything useful even if I had a few hours to try it. Also being honest, I dunno if this is like a pockety move or if it's genuine yet!
I do hope Sloth hops back in soon.
I think I'm putting Gemma/Tom somewhere close to town for right now. There's probably 2-4 more folks I could put closer to town but I've not had much more than 30 minutes a day to read and post.
@Lastwhisper regarding the Tom conversation right now
IDK while I'm not all that good at this, I'll say that it seems obvi that a smart enough wolf can pretend to be a dumb townie. Even my completely new shtick wouldn't be hard to fake-- I do try to be honest and straightforward, but I know that that is, realistically, not enough to be "AI"
Yeah, I just still really like this. Like, it clearly comes from his experience being mislynched while he was obtowning in his first game, it's no the scummy mindset of "I'm being so straightforward, townread me." It's just good.
@Gemma: I'm a librarian, not a mathematician! 80/20 it isssssss
God, being reminded that Day1 ends December 7th is something of a stomach dropper. I thought 5 day long Days were crazy.
I'll go ahead and drop an early "feels towny" list. Again-- most gut feeling right now. I might be able to gather some serious logic/reasoning before Day 2 but WHO KNOWS.
Gemma, Silver, Fulcrum, Rhand are in my 80/20 camp right now. I can probably only name 3 other people and one of them is Sloth, who I can't actually get a read on because the dipstick threw a joke vote on me to be a butt and poofed into aether.
Mindreaver jumping in with THAT spiel made me laugh. I'm keeping an eye there but I have good gut feeling. Trying not to coast this game, I swear!
Looks good if Keldeo is scum, don't think Asta would talk about a partner making him laugh.
Ugh @Vezok I completely blanked on the mason claim and really don't care about it. Seems like a weird move, but this is my second mafia game so I don't know enough.
Slight update to readlist
Town: Tom, Gemma, KCC, Nacho, Vaimes, dking
Null: Rhand, Axel, Silver, killjoy, last
Scum: Mind, fulcrum, vezok
I'm just here, y'all, and trying my best but there is a lot. No @last I don't have much more than gut feelings and I won't until Day2. My Day1 game is nothing. Here's a loose explanation and you can figure out what I am based on that.
KCC mentioning a scummy role makes sense. My role is weird but pleasant, but if I'm not careful with it, it could mess stuff up in some unexpected ways. Being open about that makes me reticent to drop them into scum land.
Tom's karaoke nonsense aside, he's been making claims that make enough sense to me. I don't follow all of them because I'm trying to NOT just sheep
Gemma is p much just good feelings. The gifs might be pocketing but honestly the willingness to leave them up to interpretation makes them feel more off the cuff and less carefully crafted by a wolf
Nacho seems eager to collaborate and scumhunt. Dunno-- good vibes
Might be influenced by last game and not wanting to mislynch him again, but yeah, Vaimes just posts a lot. I'm not really going after him unless I see something really super obviously wolfish or someone else does, and no one has actually piled anything there that convinces me.
DKing was a weird early vote but seems to have come back and has a solid logic. This is the least towny slot for me right now and could easily drop all the way to scum during Day2. I dunno.
Null mostly just means I don't have any thoughts that are genuinely connected to you. Too many people at this point, I can't attach posts to names for some of y'all. Happens. Only exception is Last, who sometimes seems town and sometimes seems to be just trying to agitate without a motive I can fully understand.
Scumreads
Mind's gif post was weird and bombastic and then amounted to nothing. If he does wind up replaced, he goes into the null pile until the replacement gets moving.
I don't like having only two other folks pinned for scum, would rather have 4 to kind of generally focus on, but I guess I'll have to slowly pick through Nulls and figure out who seems wolfy. IDK
Fulcrum is close to null, but I canNOT have basically one viable scumread right now, so the light suspicion based on gut feeling gets upgraded.
If I have to choose a side for Vezok, I choose scum based on the claim. Seems weird to claim that role without the other person to pop up too. If Vezok names the partner and one gets lynched and flips mason, sure! I'll believe it. But I just don't have adequate reason at this time.
God this is an incoherent mess that just repeats gut feeling a lot, but I *DO NOT* have any meaningful data. More experienced mafia players might be able to suss out something, but it just looks like blind folks throwing darts to me. That's fine-- we need to make sure we get a lynch in today to move stuff forward and keep it going, but I just know I don't even have the structure to start any sort of serious looking, so meh.
Definitely not posting again today, probably not posting tomorrow.
I'm missing the readlist before this where he had mind and Rhand as scum. Obviously a good look. Think him taking Rhand out of his scumreads without talking about it, when he otherwise seems pretty selfaware, would not be something he'd do here as scum.
Yeah, Asta's just town. The main point against him is the lack of activity, and I don't think that really compares to his role stuff, his pureness, and the stuff with Rhand and mind.
Imo, the odds of Killjoy being right and his role being more useful hidden rn are more likely that Killjoy being a neutral and him not sharing his role rn being harmful. I get that comes from info only I have, but think it's worth stating anyway.
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Axelrod
Moth, Fairy Town Watcher
Spring – Target a player. Learn How Many abilities targeted that player at Night
N2: Targeted KCC. No other abilities targeted KCC
Summer – Target a player. Learn Who targeted that player at night
N1: Targeted (?) No one targeted this player N1
Fall – Target a player. Learn the Names of Abilities that targeted player at Night
N3: Targeted (?) Learned names of abilities that targeted.
Winter – Target a player. Learn the First player to target the player at Night
The bold is word for word the ability I got when I targeted Killjoy.
KJ, Axel - which of you got my vest?
You are saying that Killjoy traded you the exact same Spring ability that I have?
Killjoy?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the odds of there being two fairy watchers with the same spring ability are hovering at about 0%.
Super tempted to just choo choo on Axel here.
while this gets sorted out.
I find it highly unlikely that neither Axel nor KJ have the vest, given the vest is gone from my possession and I have an ability claimed by Axel and not CC'd by anyone else. And Occam's razor says Axel is just guilty here, given KJ's play + the check on him.
I doubt there's some weird scum redirect role that would let them interfere with my trade, lift an ability from town!Axel, but take the vest for themselves. That seems way too complicated.
And I did literally trade you Axel's ability. I'm not going to say why I have it. I still think I can get some use here.
But if you look back on my iso, you'll see me theorizing that a player with that exact ability is unlikely to be scum. It's because I knew he had that ability.
That is so ******* weird.
Axel, did you know about this?
And now I am concerned that Killjoy is copying abilities. I mean, given how we have just been speculating about how Gemma might have died from someone copying her ability...
Incidentally, Vaimes, did you even think through your vote on me there? What is the rationale? You think I didn't actually have the ability I claimed on D1, which Killjoy, you know, did not counter-claim? How exactly do I do that?
What exactly were you thinking?
He's still good cleared
KJ probably my top choice for this game's neutral, pending his claim, whenever that happens.
I'm kinda curious, but I don't want to worry too much about nonmafia
The Current Season is Fall.
With 12 Alive it takes 7 to lynch.
I think I want you to do that sooner rather than later if you are going to do that. Are you responsible for Gemma?
I have a bit of a quandary now.
and he still won't full claim? k
@last how could I have buried Axel? Also I think Axel is town.
Because you gave Vaimes an ability which is the same as Axel? you have a cop check? wolf!killjoy just doesnt have to say anything, and call it unlikely to be t/t?
I mean thats probably what I would do
This is a weird situation, but I'm not sure what to make of it. Killjoy is confirmed by fulcrum so the scumteam has to be killjoy/axelrod/fulcrum for it to make sense. As in Axelrod being the daykiller and actually claiming killjoy's role, but I kinda doubt that could ever happen.
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@last: I want you to tell me why you want me to claim.
Actually that might depend on if we're allowed to say no to his items. If yes, that makes his being neutral less likely.
I am not thrilled with Killjoy's evasiveness. Yes, he has a "Not Mafia" check. I am finding this less and less reassuring.
I am also irritated and considering just claiming my target N3 which is probably not the correct play.
Operative theories for this include:
(1) LW's "Tranquility" ability preventing N1 deaths. I dislike this because it would be choosing one night for an effect the following night. Also, what is the effect? It can't be "prevent all kills for the next cycle" because clearly it did not stop the daykill. It might be "prevent all deaths the following night, but not deaths during the day" but that seems weirdly limited to me. This might still be the most operative theory just because otherwise we have no idea what it did.
(2) fulcrum was Rbed. Fairly straightforward theory here.
(3) Scum had some ability to give up/skip the Night-kill in return for a day-kill. I find this the least likely. If the scum had an ability like that, which could be used anytime, I feel they would have used it more tactically, to try and eliminate a strong role. Shooting Gemma would have been mostly a shot in the dark. Also, would this be some kind of "collective" group ability, or one person's ability (that might only be operative in Summer). It seems weird to me that if it was a single scum's ability that it would give up the regular Factional group night-kill.
(4) Strategically nokilled to manipulate the season, similar to our reason to nolynch D1?
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You're probably right, but it's hard to say without knowing what scum have. I just wouldn't be shocked if that's what happened.
Really, we should probably just be lynching fulcrum though. Horses not zebras. It's really just that one ability giving me pause, and that's not clearing
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Curse PremiumI'll address the recent stuff then
If there is one it's probably Vaimes or Proph, kinda just think there isn't one though
Keep in mind he claimed it before I claimed my full role.
Or I can just wait and hope Keldeo flips scum so that clears me, heh.
@axel: well you've heard my argument for not claiming. I feel like there's some potential useful info to be gathered here and that outweighs putting my role into the thread. Given that you think I'm town (that big post you made earlier, trusting fulcrum) why do you think I need to claim right this second?
Like the reaction to people not liking him, feels chill. Most of this is busyworky, but that's fine for a new player at the beginning of the game.
A lot of self-awareness, but it doesn't read bad.
Double use of "right now" plus the "honestly" feels like overcompensating. Indicates awkwardness and nerves, not necessarily scumminess.
Kind of a weird interaction to have with a partner. Rhand could mix up the names easily enough while being partnered with either or both Asta and Axel, but I think Asta's weirded out reaction is fine.
Yeah, I just still really like this. Like, it clearly comes from his experience being mislynched while he was obtowning in his first game, it's no the scummy mindset of "I'm being so straightforward, townread me." It's just good.
Looks good if Keldeo is scum, don't think Asta would talk about a partner making him laugh.
I'm missing the readlist before this where he had mind and Rhand as scum. Obviously a good look. Think him taking Rhand out of his scumreads without talking about it, when he otherwise seems pretty selfaware, would not be something he'd do here as scum.