I thought it didn't feel like she was as confident in her read on me than she was in her read on Last. She literally had mod confirmation of my innocence, that shouldn't be the case.
I'm sorry I cut you off though. I guess I missed where you said you were going to do stuff.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I mean, those are probably real emotions Last is having. I don't think he's faking. He might actually just be freaking out. I don't think it's alignment indicative.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It's fine, we ended up lynching scum anyways, now we're here though and I have to make a correct decision
The thing is in Last's previous scum game he literally didn't freak out. He literally said:
Quote from Lastwhisper »
and I'm not going to kick and scream like I did in the past, I'm trying to avoid getting emotionally involved in games like I did in Game of Thrones Mafia.
And in this game he's just abandoning that and going full on emotional. I mean, maybe reading his emotional state isn't useful in determining his alignment?
It's just that, after playing with Last over the summer as town and modding Modern with him as scum, and seeing his play this game, it's hard for me to believe he could be playing the long con here. But at the same time, KJ has been giving me good responses to the questions I'm asking him...
I don't envy you. I'm in a position where it CAN'T be anyone but Last. Asta would have won and, on top of other behavioral things, you could have just won by pushing the "Nothng else explains mechanics unless KJ is scum" narrative. Last is already there, Asta thinks I'm scum. You're actively rereading and doing a bunch of work you don't have to do.
I think my cases prove scum!Last pretty well. I look forward to your opinions on those when you get there.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Reading posts at work will stress me out as either alignment, that doesnt really help you read me, but thats just how it is
Idk why you have to read me on emotion here?
I am trying to completely remove emotion from my gameplay, but what I want doesnt always happen given my personality, I think you should absolutely not read me on that, even if its literally whats making you believe I am town
which IDK why thats what your choosing to latch onto in lylo
Imagine Proph slow rolling us? but that doesn't really matter, since we lose either way
if Killjoy is town here, I am just not taking the time to re-evaluate a slot that's pushing an agenda on me, and not re-evaluating
I won't even be mad, maybe this will be karma for the lylo I through in the hydra event in lylo
a lot of my anxiety stems from reading threads at work, and has nothing to do with my alignment, cause when I am home, I can respond to w/e I want, and how I want
Yeah I know that if I want to do this game due diligence I will have to look at your ISO, Last's, and fulcrum's, but I'm DREADING doing so.
Heck to do this game justice I would need to read the game like once, possibly twice? And that's just something I can't will myself to do since I'm a busy college student lol. Maybe back when I was 14 and had like, infinite time for mafia, but not now.
This lylo would be a million times easier if this game wasn't friggin 6.1k posts > _ >
OK, Last, I won't use that to read you. There are like, a million other things I could be using to read you anyways, I was just thinking that could be a crutch.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
honestly I feel bad for Proph if he is town here
cause wolf!killjoy is really going in with his case on me, and I just don't have the time or wim to rebuttal most of it
this is obviously my self-bias, but like this just comes down to who cared more, and I am worlds above Killjoy in that department
"Nothng else explains mechanics unless KJ is scum"
Proph doesn't really have to do anything here, but continue to look town honestly
Yeah, my point is he also doesn't have to do all this work he's doing, like looking at interactions with Rhand etc.
maybe? but my point is more so that I have the thought, and you don't
The most painful thing for me like is in both me!wolf worlds and me!town worlds, I spent a lot of time hedging on Proph, and pushing against his lynch at the same time, and losing to town!Proph vote in either of those worlds would break my heart
I won't even be mad, maybe this will be karma for the lylo I through in the hydra event in lylo Shrugs
What is the context for this, if you don't mind me asking?
I spent countless hours evaluating the game, rereading, re-evaluating, and made it all the way to F3 because of this, and I voted wrong because I was stuck in a bad tunnel and lost the game for town
Hydra Game 1 during the MU Hydra Cross-Community Event, its one of my better and most regretful games
Kinda like this, I was super wrong for most of the game, and I mislynched Keldeo at one point, which was the justification for my read here, but I got there at the end, and still ending up just being a huge failure
- So far I'm actually liking Killjoy for town (for once)... which probably means I'm wrong yet again and he's scum this time.
Worth noting that dkings and Rhand both townread KJ out of the gate. Is this scum townreading someone they /know/ is town, or is it scum trying to push one of their buddies into deep wolf territory? Suppose I'll find out.
Quote from dkings »
- KJ's reaction to my wagon was townie (and funny, but probably just to me).
dkings continues to townread KJ.
Quote from dkings »
Honest question, how many alignment reads do you really think you'll nail down on D1?
Dkings question to last, kind of a throwaway question here
So far all I'm getting is that dkings interactions with both killjoy and Last are kind of limited. Might be to dkings's inherent style but yeah. He mostly focused on tunneling townies (vezok, Keldeo) and kind of petered out when he didn't have any townies to tunnel.
He continues to townread KJ for most of Day 1.
Quote from Killjoy »
@dkingsland: First, do you believe Vezok's claim? You made a big old post in 801 about her, but following her claim on your post back there was a noticeable lack of comment on that. You moved your vote, sure but given the conviction in that read I was expecting a little more. Second question for you here is a two-parter: If you believe the claim, who are the scum pushing him when he claimed, and if you don't believe it, do you think the wagon is pure?
Quote from dkings »
I think vezok's claim is pretty likely to be legit. Virtually everything I disliked about her play in this game jives with a player who doesn't really care enough to play to a high level because they're just going to be confirmed if they get run up.
As for the second part of the question, I've already more-or-less answered that by voting KCC. I mentioned in the post back that you're referring to that I think it's highly likely there is one scum hiding in those three snap votes that came after my case. I started two separate wagons on D1 of Modern (you and Beeboy), both times there was a string of /barn votes, and both times there was a scum in the mix.
Although, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it was Tom both times.
Kind of a detailed question KJ ends up asking dkings here, but dkings kind of gives a stock, by-the-book response. So far mining these interactions haven't been helpful.
Some more lightweight question/answer responses from dkings and last, stuff that doesn't help me condemn or clear either KJ or Last in the slightest. Hurray!
Quote from dkings »
Last is one of my strongest townreads, which I've definitely mentioned.
So dkings just took the easy way out and strongly townread both Last and KJ?
Quote from dkings »
Main reasons I think Last is town:
1) The way he keeps getting upset about not enough paranoia in the thread
2) His frustration over his Vaimes read vs. everyone else who isn't scum-reading Vaimes feels real
3) He's not posting as much fluff as he did in Modern when he was scum
4) He's pushed against the grain multiple times (Me on D1, Keldeo today) when it would have been extremely easy/convenient for scum to just ride the wave, or at a minimum just leave it alone and see what happens.
Why do you think he's scum?
Hard to get much out of this given dkings's flat posting style, but gun to head, this feels more like a scum defending town than scum defending a buddy. Mostly a gut read here; feels like dkings would have an easier time listing out reasons why he knows a townie is town rather than saying one of his scumbuddies is town.
Yeah, outside of that little paragraph, I'm just looking through dkings's ISO and it's just a desert.
No real good interactions to mine here; it feels like dkings was good to play footsie with his buddies and mostly stay true to his tunneling on town until he was lynched. Interactions with both KJ and Last are sparse.
Gonna try looking the other way then (how KJ and Last interacted, or attempted to interact with, dkings, rather than see how dkings interacted with them).
I work 12-5 tomorrow so like that's the last chance I will get to do anything
Oh, Day ends in that weird time (afternoon EST on Sunday).
Probably gonna study for an exam all day on Saturday, so I'll use that day to make a final push at rereading and then write up summaries on Last's and KJ's play this game.
Spoilers: Barring something radical I find, I think I'm still on KJ scum here. Even though he's giving me solid answers to my questions, the evidence I keep finding just works out more in Last's favor than KJ's.
I'm also not keen on trusting too much of anything during lylo - lylo is a time where both players have essentially the same win condition (don't get lynched, lynch the other person) so the mindset gets muddled.
332: I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it 648: He’s null, because “he doesn’t have a reason to hate him yet.” 691: He’s still null, was made in response to Silver’s mini Rhand case (690). Last says he’s gonna ISO him. 747, Last is against voting Rhand because of the veracity of his scumread on Silver. 866: Still doesn’t want to lynch Rhand today. 966,988,991: 966 is actually a bunch of decently hardball questions to Rhand. After that though, he backs off immediately. 1278: Ranks Rhand as scummiest of his null reads. 2530: Per his reads list: There’s no reason to think he’s town. 3166: Rhand’s push on Vaimes is +town 3437: Rhand’s push, looking back, was somewhat forced, so he will happily vote there. 3507,3508: Votes Rhand, after first accidently voting Proph.
He kept Rhand as an option for as long as he could until he couldn’t anymore. He maintained a nullread for more than 3000 posts, then is just suddenly ok with lynching him. Rhand was under significant pressure for a bit there and he still didn’t commit to a read there.
Handling DK
Here’s the progression on DK:
427, 430: Kinda has a reason to vote DK, doesn’t want to because paranoia, then criticizes the fact that dk is a wagon at all. 453: 453 is a response to Silver’s 431, where Silver asks how DK’s position on the Axel wagon is different to Silver’s. Last’s response is that he “doesn’t think it's wolfy anyways, but like it's super easy for wolves to just say, "why is this even a train" 485: Criticizes the DK train being a thing by saying he only has 6 posts, and there’s nothing damning in them, but he’s not above neutral. 648: Null in reads list still. 737: DK shouldn’t be a train, Change My Mind meme. 1494: DK still a shrug, he guesses. 1861, 1869: Following the death of Gemma, there “has to be a wolf in Axel/DK.” We need to lynch in one of Axel/DK. I’d assume town!him would push dk hard here given that Axel claimed Watcher and he apparently believed him. 2770: Says he thinks DK’s claim is legit because of it’s complexity. I’m noting there’s not any suspicion here, so this feels like his read is going the other way, towards town. 3012: So this one is a bit weird. He eventually( is currently? I don’t remember) pushes that Grape and Vezok might be lying about their masonhood. The fact that LAst works DK into this feels awkward to me. 3055: “On the off chance” that DK isn’t BG, Asta is always a wolf.Asta was tonally town/pure, and that’s all he has going for him. DK’s claim is not just normal BG and so is more likely town. DK’s posts aren’t specifically townie. 3114, 3124: Pushes Proph for pushing DK, even though Asta confirmed he got BGed. Also thinks that Proph is TMIing that DK is scum (despite not believing dk is scum still) but in that world all of Proph/Asta/DK are scum. Or “he’s just wrong.” 3953: Here he votes Asta over DK, He should still think both are wolves together, but it’s just potentially noteable that he votes the town first over DK. 4366: Thinks that how DK handled Proph today was wolfy. 4415.4417: This is the first time I’ve felt like town Last solving things.Specifically this is the first time I’ve felt that Last was legit scumreading a scum. 4904,4905: Distancing from DK post death.
He wobbles on DK for quite a long time, leaning toward liking him for town for the longest time, but also pushing other people because of DK. Overall it’s kinda a weird position to have DK at. The only read he really commits to with DK is that he thinks he’s BG. After that, the next commitment he makes is just before he’s lynched. In scum!Last world, they would have just decided to bus him at this point because dk was mostly absent that day and might as well get some town points.
Handling fulcrum
My notes here are less substancial because when I made the notes I didn’t know fulcrum was scum yet.
648: Reads list: fulcrum is read because tom says so. Noteable that he has a strong behavioral scumread on Mind and Vezok at this point, so putting fulcrum lower seems ???. 2530: Hard reading fulcrum, not pushing her. 3055: Fulcrum not likely to come from a wolf.
Actually interactions with fulcrum have been the best out of the three. I think in scum!Last world, the fake scumread on her would be a thing. It’s noteable though that he did things like suggest that Vezok seriously consider fulcrum for his kingmaker lynch. He also alternates between DK and fulcrum around when DK died. Overall, I think if they’re scum together, it all was coordinated in scumchat.
Voting Record
He doesn’t vote during RVS. He’s here, and doing things, but doesn’t vote. This isn’t always a tell, but it’s worth noting I feel, especially with how opinionated Last typically is. The first time he actually voted for scum (DK) was in 1793, but there’s no real progression showing me that it’s suspicion that came on naturally, and it’s not really substantiated.There’s also a bit just before we lynch DK (around 4218ish) where he keeps voting DK, then jumps to a townie (and fulcrum). and then back to dk. I believe this was pushing away from dk. I believe that fulcrum wasn’t really under any pressure right then, so those votes were probably safe. I believe it might also be noteable that in 3507, he votes Proph accidently, when he meant to vote Rhand (3508).
Late Mindreaver Vote 546, 610,611, 630: Votes Mindreaver for calling saying last’s entrance was ‘townier than it’s been in a while’ or something of that nature and Last kinda latches onto that. I believe it’s noteable that Mind hasn’t had that opinion for about 500 posts, so this vote is really weak on a townie. I also noted in my VCA post that this vote is partially a sheep on Tom.
So, most of these still make a lot of sense in scum!Last world. The one that really doesn’t anymore is this last Keldeo one. Most of the others though, he’s the only non-town in the 5+ cluster. This is still relevent as scum usually reside in these clusters. It’s also of note that with the exception of the Rhand wagon, they’re all on town. And for the Rhand wagon, there’s guaranteed to be a scum there because the other three were on Axelrod at the time, and the two nonvoters were town.
Summary
A lot of my suspicion here is due to his positioning, in general. He spends most of the time pushing/voting town, His pushes on town don’t feel genuine to me as with Mindreaver. It took him almost 1800 posts to actually vote for a scum, and more than 3000 to vote for a scum he was pushing to any real degree.He fence sits two of his scumbuddies for most of the game, with the third having somewhat decent handing, but then IIRC she also had some weird positions on her buddies as well I think, so I’d want to say that was planned.
Maybe he’s just been wrong for most of the game, but I feel like all these things added together adds up to scum.
@Proph: There's a bunch of Post Links to Lasts posts here if you need them. I had to go through Last's ISO without them, and it sucked.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yeah, there's a limit to how worth it it is to keep analyzing everything. Sure stuff could start jumping out but more likely it just gets fuzzier after a while. I've only been able to do cursory glances.
that wasn't a freakout
I told you, pay no mind to it at all
that has literally nothing to do with my alignment, its just stress, which I can feel as either alignment
if you want to see me have a mental breakdown, then read the last pages before my lynch in Magika Madoka FM on Mafia451
My own digging has been honestly pretty fruitless. It's hard to determine if Last was really just wrong a lot or was constantly pushing town until scumbuddies got run up. It's hard to tell if Killjoy's low number of votes was opportunistic scum or time taking towny.
My gut just says Killjoy, and it could be wrong! But that's where I want to vote right now. There actually are mechanics to consider because I dont think we ever actually found the messenger did we? Vaimes didn't trade the messenger ability until night 4, to fulcrum.
And mechanically, we dont have a reason to think Last has anything other than Dreaming God, right?
Mechanics is a bad way to sort things and has gotten us in trouble before, but I dunno, things fit and feel right enough.
It really doesn't though. Last's role being full isn't actually based on mechanics, it's modgaming. Last is not clear for his role, even if it looks like it would be inelegant.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I already said you strung a narrative fine, but it's not conclusive. Last could have been pushing townies until scum wagons got too big to ignore or he could have just been willing to vote more often to get reactions, test waters, or just be wrong.
At the end of each day, you and Last were almost always on the same wagon, and on the day you two weren't, you were both voting town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If u wanna call someone town because of the lack of room for missing abilities fine, but don't call me a wolf off speculation, I can argue until my face is blue, and it will just be a he said she said arguement
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The bit where you state it took last 1800 posts to vote scum is WEIRD because day 1 was a chaotic mess anyways-- you confessed you didnt want to lynch dk and said fulcrum wasn't appearing scummy at all. That retroactively looks bad but it could also just be a misinformed townie getting unlucky.
You ALSO took over 3000 posts to vote a scum and stick with it. So that part of your conclusion rings a bit hollow too.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The bit where you state it took last 1800 posts to vote scum is WEIRD because day 1 was a chaotic mess anyways-- you confessed you didnt want to lynch dk and said fulcrum wasn't appearing scummy at all. That retroactively looks bad but it could also just be a misinformed townie getting unlucky.
You ALSO took over 3000 posts to vote a scum and stick with it. So that part of your conclusion rings a bit hollow too.
But with last all the jumping around was very disconnected. He was moving votes for the most part with the whim of the group. He only lynched scum for that reason. That's what I'm saying.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Honestly, if we lose the game to wolf!proph because killjoy tunneled last despite a direct warning from Vaimes to not do that? I dunno, maybe we deserve it.
Anyways based on the interactions I had with proph during the last two Days I lean way town on him. That feeling has continued today. I expressed a desire to end it with a lean on killjoy and proph could have easily taken that opportunity to go ahead and hammer killjoy to avoid even getting to this point, where they could have been questioned as scum.
That's one of the reasons I'm townreading Proph. Proph could have just let you guys scumread me, continued doing so himself, and gotten me lynched by now.
Instead, he's rereading the whole game (which I don't think he's lying about) and trying to solve that way.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm sorry I cut you off though. I guess I missed where you said you were going to do stuff.
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Curse PremiumThe thing is in Last's previous scum game he literally didn't freak out. He literally said:
And in this game he's just abandoning that and going full on emotional. I mean, maybe reading his emotional state isn't useful in determining his alignment?
It's just that, after playing with Last over the summer as town and modding Modern with him as scum, and seeing his play this game, it's hard for me to believe he could be playing the long con here. But at the same time, KJ has been giving me good responses to the questions I'm asking him...
I hate LYLOS
I think my cases prove scum!Last pretty well. I look forward to your opinions on those when you get there.
Idk why you have to read me on emotion here?
I am trying to completely remove emotion from my gameplay, but what I want doesnt always happen given my personality, I think you should absolutely not read me on that, even if its literally whats making you believe I am town
which IDK why thats what your choosing to latch onto in lylo
Imagine Proph slow rolling us? but that doesn't really matter, since we lose either way
if Killjoy is town here, I am just not taking the time to re-evaluate a slot that's pushing an agenda on me, and not re-evaluating
a lot of my anxiety stems from reading threads at work, and has nothing to do with my alignment, cause when I am home, I can respond to w/e I want, and how I want
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Curse PremiumHeck to do this game justice I would need to read the game like once, possibly twice? And that's just something I can't will myself to do since I'm a busy college student lol. Maybe back when I was 14 and had like, infinite time for mafia, but not now.
This lylo would be a million times easier if this game wasn't friggin 6.1k posts > _ >
Proph doesn't really have to do anything here, but continue to look town honestly
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Curse Premiumcause wolf!killjoy is really going in with his case on me, and I just don't have the time or wim to rebuttal most of it
this is obviously my self-bias, but like this just comes down to who cared more, and I am worlds above Killjoy in that department
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Curse PremiumThe most painful thing for me like is in both me!wolf worlds and me!town worlds, I spent a lot of time hedging on Proph, and pushing against his lynch at the same time, and losing to town!Proph vote in either of those worlds would break my heart
Hydra Game 1 during the MU Hydra Cross-Community Event, its one of my better and most regretful games
Kinda like this, I was super wrong for most of the game, and I mislynched Keldeo at one point, which was the justification for my read here, but I got there at the end, and still ending up just being a huge failure
but in either wolf!killjoy or wolf!me worlds, this is the best games we have ever played lol
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Curse PremiumWorth noting that dkings and Rhand both townread KJ out of the gate. Is this scum townreading someone they /know/ is town, or is it scum trying to push one of their buddies into deep wolf territory? Suppose I'll find out.
dkings continues to townread KJ.
Dkings question to last, kind of a throwaway question here
So far all I'm getting is that dkings interactions with both killjoy and Last are kind of limited. Might be to dkings's inherent style but yeah. He mostly focused on tunneling townies (vezok, Keldeo) and kind of petered out when he didn't have any townies to tunnel.
He continues to townread KJ for most of Day 1.
Kind of a detailed question KJ ends up asking dkings here, but dkings kind of gives a stock, by-the-book response. So far mining these interactions haven't been helpful.
Some more lightweight question/answer responses from dkings and last, stuff that doesn't help me condemn or clear either KJ or Last in the slightest. Hurray!
So dkings just took the easy way out and strongly townread both Last and KJ?
Hard to get much out of this given dkings's flat posting style, but gun to head, this feels more like a scum defending town than scum defending a buddy. Mostly a gut read here; feels like dkings would have an easier time listing out reasons why he knows a townie is town rather than saying one of his scumbuddies is town.
Yeah, outside of that little paragraph, I'm just looking through dkings's ISO and it's just a desert.
No real good interactions to mine here; it feels like dkings was good to play footsie with his buddies and mostly stay true to his tunneling on town until he was lynched. Interactions with both KJ and Last are sparse.
Gonna try looking the other way then (how KJ and Last interacted, or attempted to interact with, dkings, rather than see how dkings interacted with them).
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Curse PremiumProbably gonna study for an exam all day on Saturday, so I'll use that day to make a final push at rereading and then write up summaries on Last's and KJ's play this game.
Spoilers: Barring something radical I find, I think I'm still on KJ scum here. Even though he's giving me solid answers to my questions, the evidence I keep finding just works out more in Last's favor than KJ's.
I'm also not keen on trusting too much of anything during lylo - lylo is a time where both players have essentially the same win condition (don't get lynched, lynch the other person) so the mindset gets muddled.
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Curse PremiumI'll try to work on my summaries tomorrow, maybe post them tomorrow night if I get them done, idk
This stupid game lol
I like could be putting more work into it, but it's such a slog
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Curse PremiumI told you, pay no mind to it at all
that has literally nothing to do with my alignment, its just stress, which I can feel as either alignment
if you want to see me have a mental breakdown, then read the last pages before my lynch in Magika Madoka FM on Mafia451
My gut just says Killjoy, and it could be wrong! But that's where I want to vote right now. There actually are mechanics to consider because I dont think we ever actually found the messenger did we? Vaimes didn't trade the messenger ability until night 4, to fulcrum.
And mechanically, we dont have a reason to think Last has anything other than Dreaming God, right?
Mechanics is a bad way to sort things and has gotten us in trouble before, but I dunno, things fit and feel right enough.
At the end of each day, you and Last were almost always on the same wagon, and on the day you two weren't, you were both voting town.
You ALSO took over 3000 posts to vote a scum and stick with it. So that part of your conclusion rings a bit hollow too.
I caught Rhand early and talked myself out of it.
Ok
The Current Season is Fall.
With 4 Alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Anyways based on the interactions I had with proph during the last two Days I lean way town on him. That feeling has continued today. I expressed a desire to end it with a lean on killjoy and proph could have easily taken that opportunity to go ahead and hammer killjoy to avoid even getting to this point, where they could have been questioned as scum.
Instead, he's rereading the whole game (which I don't think he's lying about) and trying to solve that way.